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Proceedings of the Subcommittee on Aboriginal Economic Development in Relation to Northern National Parks

Issue 1 - Evidence, March 28, 2001

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OTTAWA, Wednesday, March 28, 2001

The Subcommittee on Aboriginal Economic Development in relation to Northern National Parks met this day at 5:50 p.m. to organize the activities of the committee.

[English]

Mr. Adam Thompson, Clerk of the Committee: Honourable senators, there is a quorum. As clerk of your committee, it is my duty to preside over the election of the chair, and I am ready to receive a motion to that effect.

Senator Sibbeston: I thought we had gone through this process once already.

Mr. Thompson: We have been through the organizational process for the main committee and this subcommittee has been struck. It is now up to the subcommittee to organize itself.

Senator Christensen: We did this before, though, prior to the election.

Mr. Thompson: This being the first meeting of the newly constituted subcommittee, we are required to go through the organizational process.

Senator Sibbeston: I did not realize there was such a formality.

Mr. Thompson: I am ready to receive motions.

Senator Sibbeston: I have read the agenda containing the motions to be dealt with today, and I endorse them all. I am prepared to move the various motions wherever necessary.

Senator Cochrane: I move that Senator Christensen be the Chair.

Mr. Thompson: Are there any other motions?

Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, that the motion carry?

Hon. Senators: Agreed.

Mr. Thompson: I declare the motion carried, and I would invite Senator Christensen to take the chair.

Hon. Ione Christensen (Chairman) in the Chair.

The Chairman: I am honoured by this show of support, honourable senators.

I will proceed with the remaining motions. We do require the election of a deputy chair.

Senator Sibbeston: I move that Senator Cochrane be the deputy chair.

The Chairman: All those in favour? Opposed?

Congratulations, Senator Cochrane.

The next agenda item is No. 3, relating to agenda and procedure. The motion reads:

That the Chair and the Deputy Chair be empowered to make decisions on behalf of the Committee with respect to its agenda, to invite witnesses, and to schedule hearings.

May we have a motion to approve?

Senator Sibbeston: I so move.

The Chairman: Carried.

Item No. 4 is a motion to print the committee meetings.

Senator Cochrane: I so move.

The Chairman: Carried.

Motion No. 5 is an authorization to hold meetings and to print evidence.

Senator Cochrane: I so move.

The Chairman: Carried.

Motion No. 6 relates to research staff.

Senator Sibbeston: I move that motion.

Senator Cochrane: How many researchers will we have, Madam Chair?

The Chairman: We will have the two persons accompanying us on the trip. I will take my assistant, so we will have three people to help us.

Carried.

Motion No. 7 relates to travel. It recommends that the chair and deputy chair be authorized to determine whether any member of the committee is on official business.

Senator Sibbeston: I so move.

The Chairman: All those in favour?

Hon. Senators: Agreed.

The Chairman: Carried.

Motion No. 8 deals with the electronic media coverage of public meetings.

Senator Cochrane: Will we have that type of coverage?

The Chairman: Yes.

Senator Cochrane: Are we travelling with interpretation services?

The Chairman: No. We will be conducting a fact-finding mission.

Senator Cochrane: Three senators on a fact-finding mission.

The Chairman: We will be using a recorder to help produce our minutes. I believe that in Nunavut some interpretation will be provided as well.

Senator Cochrane: Interpretation for the people who will be attending.

Mr. Thompson: Interpretation expenses are usually covered by Public Works.

The Chairman: That is approved.

Do we have a mover for Motion No. 8?

Senator Sibbeston: I so move.

The Chairman: Carried.

The motion relating to time slots is something that we must still do some work on.

Those are all the motions we need at the moment. Perhaps we can discuss our time slot. We must go to the Internal Economy Committee and defend our budget. Unfortunately, we will not be able to do that tomorrow. We will do it next week. That means we will be too tight for time with respect to starting our hearings on April 23, as we had hoped. There is not enough time. We must schedule our hearings for the weeks of May 7 and May 14.

Senator Cochrane: Will that be three weeks?

The Chairman: That will be two weeks together. May 7 is a Monday and May 14 is a Monday. That schedule is tentative at the present time. Once we get our budget approved, then we will work those two weeks.

Are you both available on those two weeks? We would be going to the Northwest Territories, the Yukon and Nunavut.

Senator Cochrane: I have a conflict because the Energy Committee will be travelling to St. John's, Newfoundland.

The Chairman: What is that date, then?

Senator Cochrane: May 3.

The Chairman: Our committee will not be travelling until the next week.

Senator Cochrane: May 7. That is fine, then.

The Chairman: That is tentative at the present time. We could work the three territories in during those two weeks. We have a week break, and then we will come back and finish our hearings in Ottawa the week of May 28. In June, we will start putting together our report, which does not need to be in until the end of September. We could do a large amount of work then and fine tune things over the holidays in July and August.

Senator Cochrane: Will there be any meetings over the summer?

The Chairman: If I can help it, we will not have any meetings. This is a subcommittee. It is not a regular committee. It is fact-finding body only, and I cannot see any justification for having any meetings over the summer. If this were a hearing on legislation, that would be a different matter.

When the Senate comes back on September 17, we will have the final meetings on our report and then present it in the house during the second week following the Senate's recall.

Senator Cochrane: Is Parks Canada preparing for our visit?

The Chairman: Yes.

Have committee members had an opportunity to read all those big books we received?

Senator Cochrane: No, I have not.

The Chairman: I am referring to a legal-sized folder. I would not recommend you read the whole thing, but have it with you when we go to each area. It contains the First Nations agreements as they apply to parks, and I found it helpful.

Senator Cochrane: Who will we be meeting?

Mr. Thompson: I do not have the list presently, but I can get a copy to you.

The Chairman: Do you have the information from the last session? We had a list.

Senator Cochrane: Yes, I did have a list.

The Chairman: We will be meeting the same people.

Senator Cochrane: Local people?

The Chairman: All local.

Senator Cochrane: I will get my first-hand information.

The Chairman: We have all read some of this material. We are conducting a fact-finding mission on behalf of Parks Canada. The main thrust is the First Nations in all the territories who have agreements concerning those parks and how they will implement their participation through many different boards that are in place. As I see it, we are attempting to find out whether those agreements are working. Are they effective? Is everything going forward as far as economic development is concerned? We will also study the spin-offs of economic development in other parts of that community.

We will hear from people who own wilderness companies that work outside of the parks but hire members of the First Nations. I feel it is important to hear them as well and to ensure that they are looking at having Aboriginals as some of their guides. The parks issue is not the only thrust of our study, but how the agreements are working.

These agreements have been in place for several years in some cases. Are they working? If not, how can they work better? Are they providing economic development? Can they be improved? Are Aboriginals getting the jobs with Parks Canada that they thought they would get under the agreement? They will be informing us and we will then be reporting on that matter.

We should not have any problems. We should be able to do that. That is why it is important to read the documents in that folder, just the sections that apply to the parks, not the whole agreement. There are several steps that Parks Canada must have taken and, in reading that, there seems to be some indication that they are not meeting the requirements, doing the reviews and that sort of thing. There have been some problems on both sides. Perhaps the First Nations do not have everything ready that they should have for the review, but there have also been delays on the government side. Those are the sorts of things we will hear about.

I will try to keep the meetings focused on those issues because I am sure we will hear many other things. We will send an instruction to each witness about the issues we want them to address. I will keep them to that and only allow them to wander after we have dealt with those matters first. I will be asking committee members to help me there, especially Senator Sibbeston, because you all know many of the people in Nunavut and the Northwest Territories. You will be able to give me guidance as to how best to deal with the situation. I know the people in the Yukon.

Are there any questions or concerns?

Senator Cochrane: Will we be speaking with any provincial people?

The Chairman: Yes. We have invited the renewable resources departments and the ministers responsible in all three territories to make presentations. They look after parks. The First Nations have agreements concerning each of the parks.

I believe we have two or three new parks. Did the minister not, in the last couple of weeks, announce new parks in the Northwest Territories?

Senator Sibbeston: They are not parks; they are protected areas, or reserves, up in the Great Bear area, I believe. There have been a couple of those in the last year.

The Chairman: Is there anything that you would like information on?

Ms Tonina Simeone, Researcher, Library of Parliament: Not for the moment. There will be briefing notes for the subcommittee to take up there with suggested questions and issues.

Senator Sibbeston: As soon as the money has been approved, will we get a travel schedule?

The Chairman: Yes. As soon as we have our budget approved, we will call you both. If necessary, we will have a meeting. If not, is it agreeable that we go ahead and start planning?

Senator Cochrane: This is fine.

The Chairman: If there is nothing more, we stand adjourned.

The committee adjourned.

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