Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Aboriginal Peoples
Issue 8 - Evidence - Afternoon session
WINNIPEG, Monday, March 17, 2003
The Standing Senate Committee on Aboriginal Peoples met this day at 1:45 p.m. to study issues affecting urban Aboriginal youth in Canada and, in particular, to examine access, provision and delivery of services; policy and jurisdictional issues; employment and education; access to economic opportunities; youth participation and empowerment; and other related matters.
Senator Thelma J. Chalifoux (Chairman) in the Chair.
[English]
The Chairman: Ladies and gentlemen, for the past 18 months, this committee has been holding hearings on issues affecting urban Aboriginal youth. These young people face unique challenges that require unique solutions. The goal of this committee is to develop an action plan for change and to empower the youth in the communities to face the very serious issues that they are facing in this new day and age.
Our first witnesses this afternoon are Ms. Marileen McCormick and Ms. Leslie Spillett. Please proceed.
Ms. Marileen McCormick, Executive Director, Centre for Aboriginal Human Resources Development: Thank you for inviting me to appear before the Standing Senate Committee on Aboriginal Peoples to discuss issues affecting urban Aboriginal youth. I am the Executive Director of the Centre for Aboriginal Human Resources Development, or CAHRD, Winnipeg's leading and longest-standing Aboriginal employment agency.
To assist in framing the discussions today, I would like to give a brief snapshot of the statistics of the urban Aboriginal community. According to the 2001 census, Winnipeg has the largest urban Aboriginal population in Canada, with 55,000 Aboriginal people in Winnipeg, approximately 55 per cent are youth aged 24 and under. The median age for Manitobans is 38 and 23 for the urban Aboriginal community. The 1996 census showed that 51 per cent of Aboriginal people between the ages of 18 and 25 had less than Grade 12 education. The results of 1364 tests of adult basic education from our Aboriginal Community Campus showed that 81 per cent had less than Grade 8 in math and 66 per cent had less than Grade 8 in English.
I would like to provide a short overview of our organization to demonstrate our capacity, commitment and experience in the urban Aboriginal community in human resource development. CAHRD is an example of best practices.
The Centre for Aboriginal Human Resource is a non-profit registered charitable organization with more than 27 years of experience providing employment services, counselling, training, and educational programs. Our organization has an Aboriginal board of directors, as well as Aboriginal staff of over 60 Aboriginal people dedicated to the work we do. Both the federal and the provincial governments provide funding to us. There are five divisions within the CAHRD.
First, our central service provides employment counselling services and referrals to education, training and employment. In 2002, we made more than 1100 employment placements, 18 per cent of which were for people under the age of 24 and 33 per cent of which included people up to the age of 29.
In our staffing solutions program, we work one-to-one with our clients and place recent secondary, post-secondary and private vocational graduates in jobs by working closely with the graduates and employers. In 2002, we made 667 placements, of which 17 per cent were for people under the age of 24, and 40 per cent of which were for people aged up to 29.
Third, education program includes a full range of programs, ranging from literacy to providing provincially accredited high school diplomas to post-secondary programs in partnership with our community colleges and universities. In the three years since this program began, we have seen more than 150 Aboriginal people graduate with Grade 12. This is an adult education program.
Our fourth division comprises training programs in which we work closely with willing and co-operative employers. We design and deliver skills enhancement training leading to employment. We made 424 placements in training in 2002.
The fifth part of our organization is our Aboriginal Human Resource Development Agreements, AHRDA, commissioning department. We are one of the urban AHRDA holders for Winnipeg. We administer approximately $4 million yearly for employment and training programs within the Aboriginal community. We serve all Aboriginal people, including youth, but we do not have a specific allocation for youth. In Winnipeg, the youth funds are kept by HRDC to administer.
An important issue for our AHRDA — which is becoming more important as our renewal date of April 2004 draws nearer — is that the national Aboriginal groups are lobbying to have the urban community-based organizations such as ours taken over as part of their self-governance plan. I have attended several AHRDA renewal consultations and this issue has been raised at each meeting.
We have been asked to talk about the best practices, policies and programs that proved successful in improving the lives of urban Aboriginal youth.
Although we do not have funds that are specifically allocated to youth programming, we do work with youth through our employment agency and in our training programs.
I would like to talk about two specific examples of best practices in programming: recreation-technician program and a youth guard program, both of which were partnerships between CAHRD and the City of Winnipeg. Both of these programs operated from 1999 to 2001 and they were somewhat unique because they dealt with in-school youth and were outside of our mandate.
The ``Rec-Tec'' program, as we call it, is focused on training at-risk high school Aboriginal youth to become paid youth workers for inner city Centres. Aboriginal youth were asked to commit a maximum of 14 hours per week to the program throughout the school year. The first seven hours were on a volunteer basis and the next seven hours were paid at the rate of $7.00 an hour. During their time with us, the youth were given a wide range of certified training and workshops. The focus of the training was on personal and leadership skills. The training was designed to begin at the start of the school year so that the youth were prepared for summer employment. The program also supports the philosophy of ``stay-in-school.'' One of our central rules for the program was that if participants dropped out of school, they would also have to leave the program. We had regular contact with the schools to monitor and assist not only the teachers but also parents to encourage the youth to stay in school.
The second example of best practices in program is the Youth Guard Program. The program trained at-risk high school youth to be fully qualified lifeguards. There was one important difference in this program: the youth had to commit to a three-year period. We are especially proud of these youth because most of them did remain in the program and committed a good deal of time to develop themselves as role models for other Aboriginal youth.
The youth participants were provided with a dedicated support person — another youth — after the program to assist with the transition into employment and for retention. In most cases, our youth do not have the same supports or exposure to the world of work as mainstream youth.
The outcome of these programs was a 73 per cent success rate — 62 of the 84 youth who completed went directly into their first paying jobs. In a follow up conducted in November 2002 — a five-year span — showed the following results: 28 of the youth had completed high school and 16 had continued on to university, 19 were still in school, 9 dropped out and we could not contact 6. Of the initial 62 participants, 44 youth still had summer jobs and 34 were still working on a full- or part-time basis. Overall, we had a completion rate of about 56 per cent of the initial 84 youth who enrolled. I think that was really good for that program.
Although the summer employment for the youth was our goal when we started the program, the big payoff was that they stayed in school. I would like to also note that this program is no longer funded.
Our conclusions based on this project and other youth projects that we have sponsored are that youth seek a caring, meaningful and structured program and experience. They want guidance and direction to understand the world of work and how to be successful in it. Another important aspect is that all of our programs are developed and managed by Aboriginal people. This develops capacity in our community and gives Aboriginal youth exposure to Aboriginal people working. Thus, our youth develop pride, motivation and aspirations.
Some of the other programs that have provided successful experiences for Aboriginal youth include our Driver's License program, the Aboriginal Youth Cyber Centre, Urban Green Teams, Youth Services Canada and Youth in Community programs.
We were also asked to identify key issues affecting urban Aboriginal youth today. A fundamental fact is that a very high percentage of Aboriginal people —youth in particular — with whom we are working in education, training and employment are surviving on income assistance and they have done this for generations. They have not adopted the mainstream culture; they are not living Aboriginal culture, but a culture of property and all its disabling effects, including lack of training and work ethic.
In order for individuals to benefit from programs, they have to be in attendance. Statistics from Winnipeg School Division No. 1 show that the three high schools with the largest Aboriginal populations — Argyle, Children of the Earth, and R.B. Russell — had inactive rates consistently over 30 per cent. This continues to be an issue in our programs. Many of the youth attending programs want to move on in life, but often do not have the self-discipline or they have other issues such as being single parents, not having adequate housing or bus fare. On a daily basis, we see youth who have dropped out of high school with as many as five unsuccessful attempts at training programs. These cycles have to be stopped.
Often the only course of action open for non-attendance is that provincial income assistance becomes involved. As people delivering programs to people on social assistance, we are obliged to report attendance. Social assistance is withheld from the individuals, making their lives even more miserable and causing further setbacks.
In trying to deal with this issue, we have experimented with incentives for good attendance in both our youth and adult programs. The results that we have seen so far is that for as little as $5 to $10 per day above the social assistance makes a difference in attendance and can be given or withheld on the basis of attendance without threatening basic existence. This makes sense as our economy is based on exchange of service for money.
These people are making an extra effort often in the face of much opposition. Often our trainees do not have adequate housing — not to mention a place to study — and should be rewarded. Ideally, as an urban ARDHA, we would like to negotiate with the Provincial Family Services Income Security to be allowed to use ARDHA funds to top up social allowance without it being clawed back.
I would also like to comment on education and training. While there are many key issues affecting the Aboriginal youth, we believe an urgent need is in the area of education and training. Education is the cornerstone of a fruitful and productive life. We realize education is a provincial responsibility, but the federal government must continue to seek creative solutions to help our youth to complete school. Supporting our school and summer programs through programs such as the Canadian Heritage Urban Multi-purpose Aboriginal Youth Centres Initiative is a good starting point.
The National Innovative Strategy, jointly administered by HRD and Industry Canada, is planning to fund a national employment and training website for Aboriginal professionals and those who already have an education, mostly at the post-secondary level. This is fine, however, more resources also need to be found to support Aboriginal people to secure education and training. According to the 1996 census, 51 per cent of Winnipeg's Aboriginal population had less than Grade 12. Our organization, CAHRD, is looking at pilot programs with aerospace and technology sectors to provide youth with a combination of paid work and training so that we can move into areas of long-term growth and good paying jobs. The model that we are using is based on a program in Detroit called ``Focus Hope'' where disadvantaged people are trained through partnerships between the non-profit organizations and industry.
For our presentation here, we were also invited to indicate the measures by which successful programs and best practices may be made available.
There are a number of components critical to the success of any program. First, an assessment is critical. We need to know where the youth are starting so the program meets their academic, social and financial needs so that we are not setting them up for failure. Second, based on the assessment, flexible supports must be put in place. Third, the programs must be developed and managed by Aboriginal people. Too many programs are still being controlled by non-Aboriginal people who do not know or understand our community and they do not hire Aboriginal people, especially in management positions. Fourth, the programs must have a community focus to foster a sense of belonging, a responsibility and ownership among the youth. A fifth component is facilitation by knowledgeable and culturally aware Aboriginal people. Sixth, the program must have clear expectations to which the participants can aspire. Youth need to strive and reach goals to feel worthwhile. The program must encompass short-, medium- and long-term goals. Finally, these programs for youth must be accredited and meet the industry standards.
These are the principles that we follow in successful Aboriginal youth training programs and they are transferable.
We were also asked to identify gaps and or duplication in programming. Gaps in programming are more of a problem than duplication for us. We find it difficult to provide holistic service to our community. We find we are still competing not only among ourselves but also with the non-Aboriginal community and governments who are providing services to Aboriginal youth. Long-standing, often archaic, non-Aboriginal agencies still control most of the resources and programs for Aboriginal people, including the youth. In Winnipeg, half of the agencies serving Aboriginal people half are run by non-Aboriginal organizations. These are often the long-standing organizations with secure funding. Many of our Aboriginal organizations still exist on year-to-year funding.
Next, we were asked to identify factors that either contribute to or create barriers to the development of successful initiatives. The first comment I have in that regard is that there is a lack of long-term flexible funding for youth programs. Many of the programs' funding sources have very strict criteria.
In the Aboriginal community there is also the issue of lack of resources — both financial and human — to develop proposals to access funding. A recent example of this is the Homelessness project. The Aboriginal community did not have the resources and often could not prove the sustainability of projects to access funding. Alternatively, the non- Aboriginal organizations did not have this problem as they were often well established and were only using the homelessness funds to enhance their programs so they could easily prove sustainability. The Homelessness initiative contained youth dollars, but it went to non-Aboriginal organizations. Most Aboriginal groups did not know about this money so they did not have access.
The Rec-Tec and youth guards programs were funded by CAHRD, in partnership with the Winnipeg Development Agreement, WDA. The WDA was a tripartite agreement among the city, the province and the federal government for inner-city renewal. The WDA provided multi-year funding to operate this program. When the WDA ended, we could not find another funding partner for the program. The federal and provincial governments both stated that they could not provide funding to train high school youth because it only resulted in summer employment. This project fits under the Department of Canadian Heritage's Urban Multipurpose Aboriginal Youth Centre, UMAYC, initiative. A proposal has been submitted and we are still waiting to hear the decision.
Another example of a program that is essential, but does not fit, is the Cyber Centre, a community-based technology program for youth and operated by youth. This program should fit under the UMAYC initiative, but it was not funded because it has already had support for two years.
Resources for Aboriginal youth initiatives should be flexible to allow for pilot programs or demonstration projects. Each program should include criteria that require youth to become familiar with the concept of life-long learning and to obtain their high school education and work skills.
Now I will turn to the topic of the involvement of Aboriginal youth in the design and delivery of programs and policies. Aboriginal youth should be involved in the design and implementation of programs, however, it must be recognized that they have limited exposure and skills and knowledge in the area. Resources for training and mentorship of youth are needed so that they can be active and informed participants during the decision-making process and in operating the programs. There are examples where our youth have been given large amounts of resources and told that they could do it on their own. With little more than confidence, they went ahead and the programs ended in failure. Mentorship, both at the organization and individual level, is needed.
In one of our earlier programs, we allowed the youth to make their own decisions in regard to programming, including attendance and output for approximately four months out of a ten-month program. We found that the program was floundering and that the youth had no direction. We were only able to get the program back on track after the project facility took a more interactive and guiding role.
With respect to options for enhancing intergovernmental coordination and policy responses, we have not done a lot in this area. We do think that policy has to be developed around urban Aboriginal economic development generally. At this time, there is little coordination among the civic, provincial and federal governments. There is even less between the governments at any level and the urban Aboriginal community.
We have already talked about matters related to funding access and delivery of programs and services. However, we do have some general recommendations. First, increased funding for Aboriginal literacy is important. Additionally, we would like to an expansion on CAHRD's service to create specific youth programming. The AHRDA youth funds could be used for this. We would like to see increased coordination between the federal and provincial departments in regard to Aboriginal programming. Finally, continued funding for community-based urban AHRDAs is important, as are capacity-building funds in the urban AHRDAs.
Ms. Leslie Spillett, Chair, Urban Aboriginal Education Coalition: Good afternoon. I want to welcome you to the home territory of the Innu, the Anishinabe, the Dene, the Metis and the Dakota people.
I want to just introduce myself. I am the speaker from the Mother of Red Nations Women's Council of Manitoba. We are what some people refer to as a ``status blind.'' We include First Nations, Metis, Inuit, regardless of their relationship to the Indian Act. Our organization currently has about 720 members from many, many communities across Manitoba.
I want to just thank you for the opportunity to participate today. I have distributed a report entitled ``Aboriginal Education in Winnipeg Inner-City High Schools,'' which was released in December, and I wanted to speak to some of the contents of that report today.
It is important that Canadians from sea to sea to sea to sea begin to address the unique challenges and the unique solutions of what is embedded in these hearings. I know that we have had many reports, studies, and investigations into Aboriginal people across Canada. One of the things that I hear over and over again is that the Royal Commission on Aboriginal People, which is an outstanding document, is relevant today as it was when it first came out. The Aboriginal Justice Inquiry is another document that is as relevant today as it was when it came out 10 years ago. In the pages of those documents, you will find the keys to what some people find fairly baffling with respect to Aboriginal people in Canada.
I would like to conduct a little bragging. I understand that my colleague, Dan Highway, was unable to join you this morning. For five years, I was the executive director of Anishinabe Oway-Ishi, a pre-employment training program for youth in Winnipeg. Out of that program emerged the Aboriginal Youth Achievement Awards, which continues to happen. It is now in its 10th year. That program changed the way that people saw Aboriginal people in general and Aboriginal youth in particular. There are a lot of stereotypes that continue to impact our community negatively. As with all stereotypes, the information is absolutely wrong. With the achievement awards, we began to honour 14 youths for the many gifts that they are given. They have demonstrated that they are quite capable of competing head-to-head, shoulder-to-shoulder with anybody else in the country, notwithstanding some of the issues that Ms. McCormick raised earlier. The Aboriginal Youth Achievement Awards is a good example of a best practice. Winnipeg literally has many best practices now.
I have lived in this community since 1977. I am proud to be active in a variety of organizations and I have worked side-by-side with community members to build our community. It is a very different community than it was in 1977. When I first moved here from northern Manitoba, there were few Aboriginal organizations in this city. Today we are in much better shape than we were in 1977.
Yet, having said that, I know we would not be here if there were not some significant challenges facing us. I would like to address those challenges, particularly around the issue of education, that is, from kindergarten to Grade 12.
You probably heard a lot of statistics this morning and I will not repeat them. However, we are the fastest-growing population in Canada — two to three times higher than other sectors in this country. We are young. We are also becoming more urbanized. If you have an opportunity to spend some time in Winnipeg, the best way that you could inform yourself is to go to our communities where our people are. You cannot walk down a street in this city without meeting an Aboriginal person and having a conversation with an Aboriginal person.
We have known for many years that the school system generally is not equipped to meet the needs of Aboriginal learners. In our history from the beginning of contact, many significant events have taken place, particularly around residential schools. There is the issue around what we refer to as the ``'60s scoop'' when many of our children — First Nations and Metis children — were removed from their own families and sent to be raised with other families in other communities. We continue to deal with the impact of all of these historical issues today. Because of that history, our cultural identity has been compromised and highly distorted.
I grew up in the same community as this woman sitting next to me. We are both of Aboriginal ancestry. We grew up off reserve and people identified us as Aboriginal people, but we did our best not identify as Aboriginal people. I think that continues to happen today. Our culture has been extremely compromised by the context of history and I believe this is the root of many of our problems — the things that you would refer to as a social problems. These problems include our children, little girls and boys, who are exploited by prostitution or sexual abuse. You do not have to go too far from where we are sitting today to find evidence of that. They are more than 1,000 of our young people sitting in youth centres right now. They are the 90 per cent of our women who are represented, despite our fairly small population, in women's jails. I could go on about the social issues. I think at the nub of that is our cultural identity and how it has been so severely distorted and compromised.
As an adult with a few years under my belt, I know that any of my colleagues who have been able to transform their lives have been able to do so once they have that have reclaimed who they are, their pride, and their dignity of their ancestry. I am convinced that is the only way that we are going to begin to turn around the profound damage that has been done. I am absolutely convinced of that because the evidence that I have, both anecdotal evidence and evidence that I see in research, tells me that that is the case. We are only going to begin to rebuild our nations, ourselves, our communities and our families when we embrace who we are and take pride in who we are and learn about who we are as First Peoples of this country. When we do that, then we are going to be able to take our place again shoulder-to- shoulder and move forward together.
I recently attended an Arctic conference. One of the presenters there said she had recently attended an early childhood development conference in British Columbia where she saw research that links the reduction in youth suicide to community control. That is profoundly encouraging. That is the message, if nothing else comes to me out of my heart today, I would like to leave with you people today. We must begin to turn around the damage by transferring control.
I always say that Aboriginal people have never relinquished the right and responsibility to look after our own children and our own people. We must be given that opportunity to do so. We know that in our hearts. To me, it is incredible that we can prove the extent to which we have control over our destiny — that there is evidence of a link between our influence and prevention of youth suicide.
I would like to give you a little information on what we believe to be transformative solutions. It is important that our community take some extent of control over the urban Aboriginal education in the city of Winnipeg. Our colleagues in the francophone community knew that their cultural linguistic survival was based on their ability to provide education in the French language with a French world view and French values. Our colleagues in the Jewish community also have the same opportunity to provide education, K to 12, to their children in their community.
Aboriginal people must also be given the same opportunity to develop education from K to 12 so that our children can receive our world view, our values and traditions through their schooling. We do not want to lower the education standards for our children. We want to be able to provide excellent education so that they can move on to post- secondary education. Evidence shows that our children do not do well in the current educational system.
Why would they? The system is essentially Euro-centre. It was created by people of Western European ancestry, for people of Western European ancestry. Our children do not see themselves reflected in any significant and meaningful way.
I have two children, one just graduated from high school, one in Grade 9. My children still went to school learning about the discovery of the continent. The discovery discourse is still quite imbedded into the pedagogy of the education system.
We formed the Urban Aboriginal Education Coalition in February. We want to use this research to mobilize our community. I believe that the extent to which our community supports the vision of having a school division for our own children is a standard of best practice. Our vision is not only for an Aboriginal school division; we want to influence and move our agenda through all kinds of school systems so that we can have an anti-racist multi-centric education for everybody. All children need to know the history of the country. All children need to know with whom they share this land. If our education system does not portray an accurate view of history, none of our children will be well served.
Here is a shocking statistic: Among the school-aged children in Manitoba, only 44 per cent are actually attending school. Of those who are attending, 65 per cent do not finish high school. We must do some major work to improve the success rates of Aboriginal people.
However, Aboriginal people should not be forced, as happened in the residential schools. We were forced to fit into the Euro-centric education system. The education system needs to change to meet our needs. We know that a person can graduate with an education degree at the University of Manitoba without having to have one elective of native studies. Therefore, you can go through the entire education system and end up in a classroom where 90 per cent to 95 per cent of the children are of Aboriginal ancestry and know nothing about the children that you are teaching — nothing about their culture, their differences in world views, differences in values. How can you teach our children if you do not know who is sitting in your room?
I think that these are things that we need to begin to turn around. We are looking at not only in the education system to begin to have an impact on it, but also to have an impact in the post-secondary education system.
Most of the teachers and administrators employed in schools where there are high numbers of Aboriginal people are non-Aboriginal. I know that some work has been done to begin to address this, however, as we speak, there are four people of Aboriginal ancestry who are in the faculty of education. This is not nearly enough to ensure that education is more appropriate to Aboriginal people.
The report says a lot. It does not specific make a pitch for an Aboriginal school division. I think that the authors tried to make incremental changes — changes that they thought were doable. I believe they knew that in the inner city where high proportions of our children live, there are no school trustees of Aboriginal ancestry. Therefore, they did not feel optimistic about the extent of success we might achieve in creating an Aboriginal school division. However, we know that when there are school trustees of Aboriginal ancestry, things can change.
In the early 1980s, there were two Aboriginal school trustees. During that time, as a result of these trustees and mobilization of the community, we did get a high school that we call ``Children of the Earth.'' I think this is an example of best practice. There is also the Niji Mahkwa School, which is an elementary school. Those schools are supposed to be co-managed between the division and the community, giving our community a seat at the table in terms of decision- making about what happened in the schools. Unfortunately, you cannot sustain equal participation on volunteerism. Currently there is no co-management of the schools. They are in the hands of the trustees.
Those are good schools, but they are not a panacea. You simply cannot send every Aboriginal child in the city of Winnipeg to those relatively small schools. We need other remedies and other solutions to that.
We need a long-term strategy in place to recruit and train Aboriginal people to be teachers. We think that there could be a lot more being done to encourage that. Furthermore, it is critical — absolutely imperative — that teachers are educated about Aboriginal people. We simply cannot have people who know nothing about us, teaching us.
We need to make to change the high school curriculum. It must be multi-centric and anti-racist — this is not just for our children, it is for all children. An education system that honours and pays high regard to all children of all cultures will benefit everybody. It will benefit our country; it will strengthen our country.
Finally — and our community has been asking for this for many years — we need an Aboriginal education system where our children can learn about who they are as First Peoples of this country, so that we can begin to rebuild our nations and our communities based on our identity.
Some people feel threatened by this. Certainly, when people are asking to have their power back, other are threatened. We really need to have control of education, placed back into our own hands. This is not a new concept. We had control in the past and we need it again. The research shows that we can have a profound influence on our destiny if our communities can take control.
That is all I would like to say. Meegwetch.
The Chairman: Thank you very much to both of you. Your presentations have been very interesting and enlightening.
Senator St. Germain: Ms. Spillett and Ms. McCormick, I grew up in a similar situation. It was likely not as severe as yours, but I remember the first day in the House of Commons that I stood up to speak about Riel and said that I was a Metis. My mother's phone nearly rang off the hook. People wanted to know what I was doing; they thought I would ruin my political career by telling people who I am.
I grew up in a little community just west of Winnipeg, along the Assiniboine River. There was racism. Is the experience I just mentioned racism? That can be a killer. In my case, I just said ``You B's, I am going to beat you,'' but in a lot of cases it turns just the opposite. How prevalent is that with the young children who are going to school now? Perhaps there are only 44 per cent of them there because they are being called ``dirty Indians'' or ``rotten little half- breeds.'' I have heard these terms in my own life. I was told that I was not allowed to go out with certain people's daughters in high school because of my background. How prevalent is that today. Is there anything being done to deal with that directly?
Ms. Spillett: Thank you so much for your comment. I usually do talk about racism when I make a presentation. I do not think I did so today. This report on Aboriginal students in Winnipeg Schools indicates that in inner-city schools, one-third of our children experience that sort of overt racism. Here are some of the comments quoted in the report:
Some people would make racial comments like `squaw' or `dirty Indian'. It made me feel like not wanting to come to school. The comments brought me down and [made me] ashamed of who I was.
They were racist and I became a rebel and fought back. I became a bully...they would make whooping actions and sounds.
I experienced a lot of racism. I was always called terrible names. It really hurt me...made me feel small. Made me ask myself, `What is wrong with me'.
I felt it [the racism] really sharp...Would get butterflies inside. Couldn't wait to get out of that school.
The non-Aboriginals would call us `wagon-burners' and `Red-Injuns' and `squaw'. That was when I got into trouble, because I would fight them...I dropped out of school. I felt that that school would never change and that the non-Aboriginals would always get their way.
When I was growing up there was a lot of racism in the areas I grew up in, especially East Kildonan and St. Vital. Students picked on us, called us names.
I think you have hit the nail on the head. I think a lot of our children drop out of school because of that kind of overt racism. Then there is the systemic racism that we know also exists. That is a good observation.
Senator St. Germain: You referred to taking control of the education system. There seem to be so many programs. Is there a top of a pyramid? That is one concern. You hear about all those organizations out there. Can they possibly focus on the needs by virtue of the fact that there are so many organizations? They may all have the same objectives, but they could be working at cross-purposes. That would lead to a disbursal of the funds to the point that it becomes ineffective.
Do you have the personnel to take control of the education system?
I think it is a good idea. It makes sense. I have not heard it set out in the way you have before. You must have the horsepower to be able to affect this. If you have the horsepower, what would it take to put it into effect? I realize we are federal and this is most likely a provincial jurisdiction, especially off-reserve. The Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development has nothing to do — thank God — with off-reserve. Can you comment on those two questions?
Ms. Spillett: In response to your second question, it is an issue relating to control and making sure that you have got people in positions who have some authority over what goes on. If you go to the Aboriginal Centre, for example, you see Aboriginal people who are confident and qualified. We would begin to build capacity. It would be a beginning; it might look different 10 or 15 years from now. However, I think we have sufficient capacity to begin working towards that.
With respect to your first question, we know that there are many programs. Everybody has a program. However, most of those programs do not work. That was stated clearly in the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry and again in the RCAP. Most of them are in the business of ``fixing Indians'' — making us a little higher up on the evolutionary scale.
These programs come form a euro-centric perspective; they pathologize our oppression. I call that neo-colonialism, where people have control over our oppression.
There are programs for everything — you name it, there is a program to ``fix'' every indicator that demonstrates how marginalized we are. However, those programs mostly support middle-class people in employment and do very little to remedy the systemic and fundamental problems. They cannot work because they do not have the foundation of identity to build upon.
The Chairman: The Minister of Indian Affairs, Mr. Nault, did a national working group on education. There were two recommendations: one called for separate Aboriginal school boards and the other called for more Aboriginal teachers.
Ms. Spillett: I think that is right on.
Senator Tkachuk: I have a couple of questions on values so I better understand. You advocate Aboriginal schools. Considering that reserves — according to the Deputy today — control education on the reserve for their young people, how do you explain the fact that Metis and status off-reserve have much better graduation rates than where Aboriginal people control their educational system?
Ms. Spillett: There are several reasons for that. One reason is the impact that residential schools have had on First Nations people. For the Metis, I think that the less identified you are as an Aboriginal person, the easier it is for you to participate. I think that is a part of it.
Senator Tkachuk: The Metis and the status off-reserve are graduating at a higher rate than the people on the reserves.
Ms. Spillett: Often you cannot graduate on reserves because there are no high schools on the reserve. Those children have to leave their communities for cities so that they can graduate. In most First Nations communities, you cannot graduate in your community.
Senator Tkachuk: I am not sure how I feel about having an education system that would be race-based. However, we do have catholic schools, we have religion-based schools.
Ms. Spillett: You have class schools as well. Rich people have schools.
Senator Tkachuk: Poor people have schools.
When you talk about values, what are the common values that you define? What values would be taught in Aboriginal schools versus those that are not being taught now in the schools?
Ms. Spillett: First, in western schools it is all about the individual reaching his or her potential and the heck with everyone else.
Senator Tkachuk: That is not what we teach, though.
Ms. Spillett: I would disagree with that.
I think is a difference in value approach. Aboriginal people are collective people — the value is that unless everybody does well no one does well. I have an example. When my daughter graduated, she graduated from a high school in the city. Children who had the highest marks were valued most there. The higher the marks the louder the clapping became until 99.9 per cent average just kind of blew the roof off of the church that we were at.
The other thing that was honoured was the football hero. Nothing else was honoured. In our view, everybody brings a gift to the table. Everybody is significant; everybody has something to offer regardless of how well they were able to perform on a test. There are differences in culture that create barriers. For example, if the teacher asks a question, our children would probably not put up their hands and draw attention to themselves. They would be acting within their own cultural perspective and drawing such attention would be unusual behaviour for them. We do not try to outsmart everybody else in the room.
We behave differently. If people do not understand the behaviours and the codes of conduct that we have then misconceptions develop. I have heard it explained in terms of these children not having good self-esteem, for example. If you do not always have the answer, if you are not always on top of the game then you are seen as having poor self- esteem or being shy. It is not that at all. It is really children are acting from their own cultural perspective.
There are world views embedded in indigenous knowledge and in indigenous practice with which we feel comfortable. We bring our grannies into the classroom because our grannies teach us. They teach us the language, they teach us the stories, and they teach us the songs. When I worked on what was called an ``urban aboriginal education committee'' that was supposed to be a resource for the trustees, they would not let our grannies in the classroom because these women did not have a bachelor of education degree.
We embrace our community and the intelligence of our community and recognize it does not necessarily have to be a university degree. There are so many differences.
Senator Pearson: It was a fascinating presentation. Ms. McCormick, I was interested in the comment that you made about empowering youth and having them involved in designing programs. You stated that you do not just let them run with it and then fail. I agree with that.
In setting out our terms of reference and looking at this issue of how young people should be empowered, we never envisaged that. That was not what we have been looking for. We are looking for the methods by which you enable young people to take some control over the decisions that impact their surroundings.
Whether it is that they are involved in the task of developing a program together or whether it is having some input into the number of hours, I do not think anyone in this group would have thought that just handing it over to the kids was a particularly good idea. It is a lazy idea — it is sort of saying, ``okay, you go out there and then of course, you can fail and then we can blame you,'' right?
Ms. McCormick: Yes.
Senator Pearson: We are interested in strong examples of how this partnership with young people, which is empowering to them, takes place. Could you give me a couple of examples?
Ms. McCormick: Yes, I can. It could be the programs that I talked about. When we work with our youth, we are always trying to help them develop their leadership skills. It goes back to the cultural issue again. In our communities we learned from everyone else — we learn from our elders, we learn from our parents, our brothers and our sisters. In the same way, when we work with youth, we always try to make sure that we have youth involved in the program at the level where they can learn.
We try to mentor in our programs. When we first started, adults were generally running the programs. Now, in most of our youth programs we have youth who are a bit older mentoring in them. They have a bit or room to make some decisions, but we help them and guide them to make sure that they are not going to get into positions that they cannot get out of. It is quite alive. It is common sense. If you look at the areas that we indicated needed to be in the programming to be successful for youth, you will find that all of those are there. The principles that guide us are important in all programs.
The Chairman: It is really helpful. Vygotsky is a Russian psychologist who has impressed me. He talked about the ``zone of next development.'' You never put a young person — and this goes for parents as well — in a position that is beyond their capacity. You put them just a little bit ahead, so it pulls them up.
You have to really study the young people and get to know them and know where they are at, and then just move it to the next little phase. I think that is the kind of thing we are looking for in leadership training. Your messages are clearly heard.
Senator Léger: I see there is hope in the education system. I come from New Brunswick. We presently have two systems: we have one minister of education, and the English system has theirs. Of course, we meet on top. We come to the same ends at the end.
You want to have your own program. It is possible; it can be done. You have a building capacity, you said, and it is on the way. When I see all of these young people, it is right there and it is possible. We certainly do it at home
I appreciated hearing that you have behaviours and codes of conduct that are different. What you are hoping and what I am hoping is that all children of all cultures will benefit — that is what multiculturalism is all about.
It is possible to have your own system and I wish it for you.
Senator Sibbeston: Madam Chairman, I know I always refer to the Northwest Territories. I sincerely believe that we have made significant strides in the Northwest Territories where Aboriginal people are more extensive in the general population.
I could not help but think of the early '70s when I first became involved in politics. The government of the day was insistent on formal education requirements for a lot of the government positions and jobs that were done in the north. We began challenging them, basically saying, ``Well, how about common sense and sufficient education to do the job?''
That challenge eventually led to creating unique northern educational programs: there was a teacher education program and there was a nursing program geared towards Aboriginal people and society in the North. There is a social workers' program, and there is Arctic College that emphasizes the trades. I notice that they recently created a Nunavut law school. They are going to create lawyers that may not be as sophisticated as those in Winnipeg and Toronto, but they will be sufficient for the northern society that we have.
Are there programs in Winnipeg or in Manitoba like that? Do they have programs that will make it possible for Aboriginal people to work amongst themselves?
We are saddened by the fact in the North that we do not have any Aboriginal priests because priests have to be very learned. They have to go to university for seven years and so forth. The reality is that you can be a good Christian person, a good Christian leader without going to university. The Anglican Church in the Arctic has created their own system whereby they have Inuit Anglican ministers in all of their communities because they have adapted this approach of creating leaders for their own settings. They are not as sophisticated or as learned as those in Paris and New York, but they are certainly sufficient in doing a good job for the people. I am interested in your comments.
Ms. Spillett: There are numerous programs to train Aboriginal people as social workers and as teachers. Those are the two primary areas of education in which there are special measures for Aboriginal people.
I recently travelled to Saskatchewan. I found that in respect to post-secondary education, Saskatchewan was about 30 years ahead of Manitoba in terms of taking on the issues of getting around education. Everyone accepts that that is critical in the area of social work. However, the Saskatchewan Federation of Indian Nations is in partnership with the University of Regina and they have an impressive college and all kinds of courses.
In fact, the people that are in the regular Regina campus system have to go to the Saskatchewan Federated College system to get their training in Aboriginal studies. There is also the Gabriel Dumont College that has northern teaching programs, Saskatoon teaching programs and Regina teaching programs, so that is quite amazing.
In Manitoba, we have what is called the Brandon University Northern Teacher Education Program, BUNTEP program. It operates out of the University of Brandon. It teaches primarily northern teachers to go back into their home communities to teach. That has been a really good program. Those are the kinds of things that do work and that we support.
I have one other comment. Our own people know our people. How ``sophisticated'' is it to place a person from Toronto who knows nothing about our people up in Nunavut? We know the knowledge that we have is significant. David Suzuki, our brother environmentalist, says we have a profound knowledge that has been undocumented and is dying with our old ones. This, he says, is knowledge the world will never reclaim again. Our knowledge has to be given some sort of credibility and respect in relation to education. To me, that is education.
I send my children to school in the Winnipeg No. 1 School Division. I say all education is important. All people's knowledge is intrinsically good and valuable, so go and learn about other people. Yet, you must also know that you have an equivalent and parallel knowledge system that is just as good and just as profound as any others and you need to learn that too. That is how I like to see the world. I do not like to see a king of hierarchy of good and bad or worthiness and less worthiness. I want to see everybody as kind of in terms of equal, our knowledge is equal.
Senator Tkachuk: I forgot to mention the involvement of the First Nations at the University of Regina. If anyone is in Regina, they should visit the new building. It is absolutely spectacular. It is probably one of the finest university buildings you are going to see in North America.
Ms. Spillett: Douglas Cardinal, the designer, is an Aboriginal person.
Senator Tkachuk: He is the same architect who designed the museum in Ottawa.
Senator Johnson: Can you tell me, please, what are the 44 per cent of the Aboriginal youth not in school doing?
Ms. Spillett: Some of them are at home; some of them are on the streets; some are in jail. They are in gangs or prostitution. They are filling those social statistics. Not all of them, of course, but some of them.
Senator Johnson: You have made comments about ways in which these problems can be solved and education is coming out more and more. Everyone who speaks about this issue states that education is one of the keys. Should the HRDC training dollars be longer term?
Ms. McCormick: Most certainly. One of the issues is that when we are talking about training dollars, we are talking about adults — they support programs for people aged 18 and over.
However, one of the issues with which CAHRD and the other AHRDAs are dealing with is the fact that the resources that we have are short term. I think it is about a year, at the most two years.
A lot of our people are starting at literacy. They are coming to us with less than Grade 8 education. There is no way they can be trained in the period that we have. It is a constant struggle. It is a struggle to get people to believe that they can go into education and training and actually do something. Once we can convince them, they are facing the barriers of not having enough time to actually do it.
Senator Johnson: Would you agree then, that the goals are of course to increase the length of the training?
Ms. McCormick: Yes.
Senator Johnson: Would you agree with John Kim Bell that we are not really training people for the post-industrial economy, rather, these programs are aimed at low-level jobs?
Ms. McCormick: Very much so.
Senator Johnson: We are not training anybody for the high-tech highly skilled areas?
Ms. McCormick: Both the provincial and federal governments are creating that barrier. There is a barrier created by the federal government because the training programs are not long enough. Again, most of the Aboriginal people who are going into training are on social assistance. There is a limited period of time during which people are permitted to stay on social assistance. They government prefers that people go into a three-month program and get some kind of job. However, that does not work.
Senator Johnson: Have you seen John Kim Bell's report ``Taking Pulse''?
Ms. McCormick: Yes, I have.
Senator Johnson: I think they interviewed 100 corporations who had never heard of AHRDA. They were unaware of AHRDA money. They had never heard of the program.
Ms. McCormick: I can understand that. Most of the AHRDA programs are community-based and work with the people that are in their own area and who are the easiest to approach.
Senator Johnson: Right. Therefore, there is no demand in the private sector then because they do not know about it.
Ms. McCormick: If they do not know about you, yes.
Ms. Spillett: I wanted just to add a comment about the AHRDA. There is an AHRDA council that is supposed to work with the business sector. Hence, there is some linkage between industry and AHRDA, yes.
Senator Johnson: The only way of dealing with this is further training and education and extending the long-term goals?
Ms. McCormick: Yes. We have another issue in regard to all those employers — the industry of which John Kim Bell speaks. It is fine to have them there, but if we do not have the people who are trained, it does not matter about the contact. There are so many of our people who have less than Grade 9 or Grade 12 education, that we do not even spend a lot of our effort trying to contact prospective employers. Even if we can contact them, we would not have anyone to offer them because they do not have the education and training.
It is critical. We do post-secondary education. There is a stress at our agency between the people running our literacy and adult 12 programs and the people who are trying to run the post-secondary programs. They are asking were all of the people are. They need them to have Grade 12 so that they can get into the post-secondary. It is a big issue.
The big issue with literacy is that the amount of funding available to it does not anywhere meet the needs.
Senator Johnson: What is the literacy rate? Can you give me the figures for your population?
Ms. McCormick: Yes, I can talk about CAHRD. In our organization, we work with about 400 adults that are coming into training each year. At any one time, I would say that 60 per cent of them are in literacy —that is under Grade 6 — and then we move them up from Grade 8 to 10. Then we move them into the actual academic programs.
In our programming — and I think it is similar everywhere — the largest amount is for literacy. Then there is upgrading and then we have really good class sizes for the people who are in the sciences and math. The size of a class for anybody past Grade 10 would be about 12 or 14 because we do not have enough people at that level.
Senator Johnson: Do you know how many Aboriginal people in the City of Winnipeg are illiterate?
Ms. McCormick: Well, there is a whole issue about how you define literacy. There are different levels.
Senator Johnson: Yes, I know, but in basic reading?
Ms. McCormick: According to the recent stats, 51 per cent of our Aboriginal people do not finish Grade 12. I believe about 45 per cent do not go past Grade 9, according to the 1996 census. Literacy is a big issue.
Senator Johnson: Oh, I know, it is a huge issue.
Senator Tkachuk: In the employment program, on page 4 of your brief, you say there is no longer funding for this program?
Ms. McCormick: No.
Senator Tkachuk: It seems to me it was a successful program?
Ms. McCormick: It was. According to the work we do, we think it was a very successful program. However, it is a program that does not seem to fit into any of the funding bodies, except for the Heritage Canada.
Senator Tkachuk: Maybe you were doing it all wrong. What you should have done was spend about $1 billion over budget, completely mismanage it and the minister would be going to the government for more money, right?
Ms. McCormick: Yes, I guess so.
Senator Tkachuk: Quit doing that.
The Chairman: I would like to thank you both very much.
Senators, our next witnesses are Diane Redsky and Troy Rupert. Please proceed.
Mr. Troy Rupert, Circle of Life, Thunderbird House: Honourable senators, I am the Gang Outreach Intervention/ Prevention Coordinator at Thunderbird House. Thank you for the opportunity to contribute to this important process.
I would like to take this time to address what I see as an all too often overlooked target group: Aboriginal males. It is time we addressed the underlying problems of antisocial behaviour that results in gang and criminal activity for youth and eventually adulthood.
For many Aboriginal males poor parental supervision, neglect, poor disciplinary methods, parental criminality, aggressiveness and low socio-economic status are contributors to the delinquency in youth and future antisocial behaviour. For many males, this will lead to abuses of women, children, drugs and alcohol, themselves, fellow community members and incarceration.
I believe we need to address these issues before they become a problem for society later on when change is more difficult. By addressing attitudes, values and beliefs that support antisocial behaviour we will eliminate funding and programming that goes into fixing the damage created by the behaviour in the first place. If we can teach our young men to be healthy in mind, body and spirit, their children will be productive members of society and women will be treated with respect.
Resources for women are abundant and well-documented in resource lists, phone books, support groups, workshops and have community and government representation and advocate agencies.
Some recommended workshops for young Aboriginal men are: ``Criminal Thinking versus Social Thinking'' — social cognition — Family and Community Male Responsibilities,'' Respecting Life Givers — women — ``Anger Control,'' ``Social Problem-Solving,'' ``Moral Reasoning'' and ``Self-control Development,'' ``Victim Awareness,'' ``The Red Road'' and ``Sweat Lodge.'' Such workshops would all be beneficial. By developing social skills earlier in life, the male would become a more productive father, husband and community member.
I have worked with Aboriginal gang members — both youth and adults — for 10 years, developing innovative programs that assist them in exiting the gangs and begin new lives. Some of the biggest challenges have been in providing immediate results such as adequate jobs, drug and alcohol recovery, education, and ability to resist old associates and lifestyles. Unfortunately, instant success is unrealistic and peer pressure, hopelessness and frustration get in the way.
Other systemic problems are school divisions' unwillingness to work with gang members, judicial and policing methods, and negative stereotypes. Youth are easily misled into believing that obtaining status, money and respect and a cool rep comes from being a hard-core gangster. Without an honest desire to make change, gang-involved youth will not succeed. However, I have found that those individuals are few and most want to make positive change.
The difficulty for youth is having a good support system around them and seeing it through the long road and possibly dealing with behavioural problems that have been influenced via family or peers. I have also found that almost all gang members with whom I have worked want to help others by being outreach workers themselves.
At Circle of Life Thunderbird House, we are developing programs as a result of recommendations from gang- involved youth. These programs are PAA PII WAK, a safe house for gang members wanting out through Aboriginal traditional methods; ``Clean Start,'' a gang tattoo cover-up/removal project; and, an intervention program designed to address criminal thinking and behaviours, which is still in the development stage and as yet un-named.
Aboriginal gang and criminal activity is nothing new to Winnipeg. Unfortunately, our Aboriginal leaders have been silent in speaking out against such behaviour. Rather, they have placed blame on our non-Aboriginal friends and they are teaching the same to Aboriginal youth. For our Aboriginal people to become successful, we need to hold ourselves accountable and be responsible by teaching our children well. Winnipeg has a wealth of Aboriginal role models that are in a position to make a difference simply by their presence, influence and vocalization.
There is myth that Winnipeg is a bad place and has a negative influence on our Aboriginal youth. While there are a lot of temptations and negative activities to distract some of these young men, the positives far outweigh the negative ones. Gangs, substance abuse and violence are everywhere, including isolated communities. Winnipeg has more opportunities for employment, education, training and counselling for Aboriginal youth. Educational life skill preparation would have a significant impact on the success of an Aboriginal youth's adaptation to urban transition.
The Circle of Life Thunderbird House has several programs for Aboriginal male and female youth and adults that are run throughout the week. The Oshkitwaawin program has two female sex-trade outreach workers who work with male, female and transgender prostitutes, providing counselling referral and a weekly support group. The Oshkitwaawin has two gang outreach workers that provide counselling, referral and support services. The gang outreach program also gives gang awareness workshops and presentations to community agencies and youth groups.
``Rites of Passage'' is a program conducted by Elder Don Cardinal, which consists of 10 separate workshops with each one focusing on a different traditional teaching. Participants are able to meet with Elder Don Cardinal to receive personal guidance on an individual or family basis.
``Flight of the Thunderbirds'' is a program that employs two cultural outreach workers who are in charge of various cultural programming throughout the week. Pow wow lessons, beading, drum group practice, counselling and more are available to participants.
A resident elder is available on-site for individual counselling, family counselling, healing, and naming ceremonies. Access to other elders — both traditional and Christian and male or female — can be provided.
The Circle of Life Thunderbird House also provides on an ongoing basis Solstice and Equinox celebrations, sweat lodge ceremonies, community gatherings, facility rentals, presentations and tours. Thank you.
Ms. Diane Redsky, Director of Programs, Ma Mawi Wi Chi Itata Centre: Good afternoon. I am here today to talk about our organization, our community-based response to our youth development strategy, and to give you some examples of some of our best practices and how they have worked for us.
Since 1984, the Ma Mawi Wi Chi Itata Centre has worked to provide culturally relevant preventative and support services to Aboriginal children and families living in the city of Winnipeg.
We are a non-mandated non-profit Aboriginal controlled and directed human service organization that offers a diverse array of culturally relevant services and programs.
Since our inception, Ma Mawi has evolved from an advocacy-based agency to one that works to empower community members to practice self-care through preventative and supportive services for children and families.
Ma Mawi's philosophy is rooted in the belief that the entire community has responsibility for the healthy development of future generations. A commitment to the growth and development of the Aboriginal community underlies all of our programs and service activities.
Our unique approach to service delivery has established a high level of credibility, support, acceptance and recognition within the community. Our commitment to working to support and nurture children, families and communities, has set us apart from other social service agencies in the hearts and minds of community members and we are perceived as a value added community-based resource.
The community has repeatedly told us that services and programs with the most benefit to children and families are community-driven. Ma Mawi is committed to a community development approach that seeks to create opportunity for the community to help itself. We have become much more than a social service agency; instead, we have become a leader in community-based care.
Our plan for the future is directed towards supporting a community to reclaim its authority for taking care of its members. The foundation of our plan is built on four community-focused directions: a community-based approach, always being where families are, capacity building practices, strong community involvement and opportunities for leadership.
These directions will guide us in bringing resources and recognition to community members to build community capacity for self-care. Our centre operates five sites in the city of Winnipeg and we are working on our sixth. As an Aboriginal organization, we employ 120 Aboriginal community members. When our sixth site is opened we will have a total of three residential care facilities and three neighbourhood-based centres.
We developed our youth development strategy a couple of years ago. Aboriginal youth are a dynamic component of the city of Winnipeg. They are our future leaders, educators, professionals and role models. They are the links to the history and tradition of the past and also hold the knowledge and vision of the future.
These same young people will play a pivotal role in shaping Winnipeg's future for a new millennium. Aboriginal youth represent the fastest growing segment in Winnipeg's youth population. However, these same youth are among those who face the highest levels of unemployment, suicide and low education levels. In addition, labour market conditions are relatively unsupportive for Aboriginal youth, aggravating a situation that already presents Aboriginal youth with far more challenges than other youth.
The Ma Mawi Wi Chi Itata Centre youth development strategy is based on the belief that solutions and results can be realized when all stakeholders work together in true partnership.
Strengthening the capacity of the Aboriginal community where programs and services are designed and delivered through established and emerging organizations serving Aboriginal youth should be encouraged.
The delivery of programs and services based on mutual respect, recognition, responsibility and sharing is in the best interest of all concerned.
We envision our Aboriginal youth being able to pursue career and quality of life goals while at the same time supporting the social and economic aspirations of the Aboriginal community as a whole.
The mission for the youth development strategy is to provide leadership, and to provide in collaboration with individuals and organizations effective comprehensive services for Aboriginal youth to assist them in reaching their full potential.
The purpose of the strategy is to provide a framework that will assist Aboriginal organizations, individuals and youth in the design and delivery of programs and services for and accessed by Aboriginal youth. It is anticipated that the implementation of the strategy will help to achieve comparability between the current profile of Aboriginal youth and other Canadian youth.
The rationale for the centre's strategy is to take a leadership role in designing to support today's Aboriginal youth. The strategy is based on strength-based approaches designed to capture the talents, strengths, abilities and worth of every Aboriginal youth.
Aboriginal youth recognize the importance of knowing their traditions and history. They want to learn about and sustain their culture and language as a means of strengthening their well-being.
This concept is conveyed in the 1996 Royal Commission on Aboriginal People. Aboriginal youth also envision a future that offers equitable opportunities to live successfully and fulfill their lives. To do so, Aboriginal youth need to be equipped with the necessary skills, abilities and information to take full advantage of education, training and employment opportunities.
Our goal is to encourage opportunities for Aboriginal youth to enjoy a healthy lifestyle, and to help them express their cultural identities within the context of support and learning. We intend to focus on the strengths and talents of Aboriginal youth while reconnecting them to a larger community. We want to strengthen the capacity of our neighbourhoods, and provide services that will promote the cultural development and self-sufficiency of Aboriginal youth. We want our youth to respect and promote Aboriginal culture, communities, language, history, customs, traditions, self-identity, values, and heritage.
Many Aboriginal youth wish to reclaim their cultural identity and reconnect with their traditional values.
The Ma Mawi Wi Chi Itata Centre youth development strategy is based on the belief that solutions and results can be realized when all stakeholders, including Aboriginal communities, governments and institutions, the private sector, community volunteer agencies, and individuals work together in true partnership.
That strategy was developed a number of years ago and we have a number of programs that deal with the youth and the entire family. Family involvement is essential to our strategy.
Recreational, cultural, education and leadership opportunities, designed with the youth for the youth have been implemented. We operate drop-in pow-wow clubs where both youth and family members are welcome.
We have recreation programs in a number of community centres within the city of Winnipeg. We have summer employment programs. We have camp programs where the entire family is welcome to participate.
Our three residential care sites are youth-driven. The family is at the centre of our programs and has a say in all of the decisions that are being made.
The Ma Mawi Wi Chi Itata Centre is in the process of opening a learning centre just outside the city of Winnipeg. A group of youth leaders are developing a business plan, selecting the site, and so on. It is a youth leadership development opportunity that at the same time provides Ma Mawi with an opportunity to mentor and assist in the succession planning.
Senator Johnson: Thank you very much. You are doing some fantastic work at the grass roots level.
Mr. Rupert, we have watched your work evolve over the years and, I want to commend you on the significant progress that you have made. You mentioned in your comments that there are ample resources for women, but few for young Aboriginal men. Have you started any workshops for young men?
Mr. Rupert: No, I have not, however, we do have a workshop in the development stage right now. I want to do it out of Thunderbird House. I want it to be a twice-weekly group that focuses on topics and issues concerning social development.
Up until this time the only thing program that has focused on male Aboriginal youth has been in a school outreach program. I used to run that program out of Winnipeg Native Alliance. The program was not just for young men however. We worked with 16 and 17-year-olds in a group setting that met weekly.
Senator Johnson: Do you think you will get young men to come to this new program? Do you have a model to base your work upon?
Mr. Rupert: No. The focus is to try and teach these young men how to respect women. I brought along a survey that will illustrate my point. I surveyed 49 Aboriginal youth and asked them various questions regarding gang colours, and one of the last questions I asked was: What role do you feel women play in gangs? The response that I received was that almost 90 per cent said — I do not know if I should say what they said. The overall response was quite shocking.
Senator Johnson: I am sure that the survey would be useful for us to read.
Mr. Rupert: Would you like to see it? I can pass it around, if you like.
The Chairman: Will you get us copies of it for us please?
Mr. Rupert: Yes.
Senator Johnson: How many young men are in gangs?
Mr. Rupert: According to law enforcement statistics there is an estimated 2000 active gang-members in the city right now.
Senator Johnson: Has that figure remained steady?
Mr. Rupert: That figure includes all gang members; it is estimated that 40 per cent of that figure are supposed to be youth, and 70 per cent of the 2000 are Aboriginal.
Senator Johnson: What does your program do to assist the youth in exiting the gangs? Is there any one thing in particular that has worked for you and do parents get involved in supporting you in this work?
Mr. Rupert: We receive many calls from parents that are concerned about their children.
Senator Johnson: Have you had much success in getting these boys out of the gangs?
Mr. Rupert: Yes we have. Unfortunately, the common thread is that the boys have one foot in the gang and one foot out.
We are working with one boy who for a few weeks at a time attends the Aboriginal centre school but wavers over to the gang part of the time. It is apparent that he cannot make up his mind which way to go in life; gang ties are not easily broken.
His peers and his environment have had a big impact on his life. He has socialized with gang members most of his life. He knows the gang members well from the neighbourhood in which he was born. When he leaves the gang it is more like a retirement and like any retirement from an association he still holds an affiliation with it. He will remain loyal to his colours until the day he dies even though he is not longer active in gang activities.
This boys' dilemma is common with the other boys we are working with.
Senator Johnson: Why are your Aboriginal leaders silent when it comes to Aboriginal gangs and criminal activity. Have you any insight as to why they are silent concerning this subject?
Mr. Rupert: I believe that they might think it political suicide to discuss the subject. They also have to fear the gangs themselves; they are powerful.
Senator Johnson: Is there anyone that might speak out, or do you see the situation remaining the same?
Mr. Rupert: I think it may take something horrific to happen before someone steps up and says something. The Aboriginal politicians lash out at police brutality and other issues, but when it comes to the accountability of their own people they are silent.
Senator Johnson: I am sure you would like them to give you a little more support.
The Chairman: I took on the challenge of conducting a survey on Aboriginal gangs in Edmonton. I have had a few arrows in my back over the years, so I am not too worried about the effect my survey might have. I now know exactly what is happening with regards to the gangs.
I will be presenting the survey to both our caucus and committee. In the meantime I can say that the survey results are discouraging. The justice system almost encourages the gang system by taking inmates from Stony Mountain Correctional Facility, and sending them to Edmonton max, and releasing them from there. This procedure has resulted in a 35 per cent increase in gang activity in Edmonton.
Mr. Rupert: Yes, that is a big part of the problem.
The Chairman: Have you seen any community success? I understand the community wants very much to take back its children from the gangs. What is your experience in this area?
Mr. Rupert: Many community-based organizations are working to address the gang issue. Ma Mawi and others are working hard to create useful programs that will help our youth to stay away from the gangs that have permeated our communities.
Senator Chaput: I am new to this committee and commend you for speaking so openly concerning gangs and especially the need for work with male youth. We are aware that men seldom seek help in social matters.
I assume that preventing someone from entering a gang must be easier than getting them out of the gang afterwards. What percentage of your programs deal with prevention?
Mr. Rupert: Approximately 15 per cent of my work is in prevention and the rest is involved in intervention. The prevention work includes school and community workshops that include both families and youth.
Senator St. Germain: Are you winning or losing the battle? How have the police tried to adapt to the needs of our Aboriginal communities? Do you have enough qualified people to assist the police?
I was a policeman in St. Boniface at the time of amalgamation and then I served in Vancouver where I was undercover for seven months. I spent the next five months on the street.
The necessary sensitivity that is required to do the job was not in place while I was on the force. I know that things have changed, and thankfully so, but have you got the talent?
Is there an Aboriginal pool from which you can draw trained people to work on the force? Further, is the police force adapting to the new philosophy?
Mr. Rupert: To answer your first question, I am neither winning nor losing the battle. I do make gains however. I think that as far as the gang membership goes it is pretty much capped off at around 2000 members. It has stayed that way for a number of years now. There are a lot of gang members and there are also a lot of older gang members that have decided to get out.
The trend seems to be that both younger and older gang members are trying to leave the gangs; they see that it can be done. They are beginning to understand that there are resources available to them to assist them in getting away from the gang and becoming a productive member of society.
In terms of your other question, now that I know that you are an ex-cop I cannot be as open and candid.
Senator St. Germain: There is nothing they would like more than for you to tear me apart if you wanted to. Go ahead. Do not hold back.
Mr. Rupert: I believe that we have made some progress in communicating with the Aboriginal people. Many community satellite offices have been opened and the concept of community policing has been working well.
The police force is recruiting more officers, and Downtown Winnipeg Biz is an effective program where young ambassadors patrol the neighbourhoods. Many of the ambassadors are Aboriginal and sometimes they move up to a career in the police force. The more Aboriginal people we can get in those areas the better.
We do have some on going issues concerning police brutality. We also have concerns with the aggressive gang behaviour toward our youth. These two issues are definite problems that we have to deal with.
The problems are always brushed under the rug and people are frustrated and concerned that nothing is done. They are concerned that the voice of the community is not being heard in relation to these problems. It seems that the police are protecting their own and that, even though they acknowledge that something has happened, nothing ever becomes of it.
Senator St. Germain: Is aggressiveness on both sides breeding more aggressive behaviour in the community?
Mr. Rupert: Do you mean between the Aboriginal people and the police force?
Senator St. German: Yes. I am especially concerned with the gang aggressiveness, because if one side is aggressive there is generally an equal and opposite reaction to it.
Mr. Rupert: There is definite hate between the two groups, yes.
Senator Tkachuk: Were you a gang member before you got involved in this program?
Mr. Rupert: I spent 15 years of my life in and out of prison. The last time I was in prison was in Stony Mountain Correctional Facility. I was released in 1992 and when I was in Stony I became involved in a gang. My membership in the gang was short lived.
Senator Tkachuk: What changed your life?
Mr. Rupert: I guess it was the birth of my son and the death of his mother. Six months after I was released from Stony my sons' mother was killed and I had to take on the responsibility of raising him. I began to feel guilty about my behaviour and so turned my life around. I understand that this kid will be a reflection of myself. I did not want him to go down the same road that I had travelled. I did not want him to become what I had become when I was younger. That guilt motivated me to change.
My son has saved my life more than once. Just recently he helped me through some personal problems that were very difficult for me to handle.
Senator Tkachuk: That was quite moving, and he is a lucky kid.
We have spoken about the Native leadership not speaking up about issues. We have address the issue of police methods. I would like you to comment on the unwillingness of the school divisions to work with gang members.
I would like to hear your comments on the judicial methods, and public policy initiatives you think should be advanced that would help solve the problem.
Mr. Rupert: Many teachers have not been properly trained to deal with the gang situations. They do not know how to deal with the aggressive mentality, gang activity, and their antisocial and criminal behaviour. Their reactions are to have that youth expelled from school, which is in keeping with the schools zero tolerance policy.
The minister of justice has said that one gang member in a school is one too many. What kind of attitude is that coming from the minister of justice?
If I were a teacher, my number one goal would be to educate students and reach out to them to help them stay in school. I fired a letter off to the minister right away.
Senator Tkachuk: I bet you did. How can we work with the school boards? What can be done to ensure that every child has the opportunity to finish school?
Mr. Rupert: I do not know if anything can be done. I know that changes have to come from teachers that are trained to deal with this problem. A zero tolerance policy just puts the children at risk right into the gangs' hands. I really do not have the answer to that question.
Senator Tkachuk: I think you are correct in your feeling about zero tolerance. If the child is aggressive then after three strikes he is out and lost to the community.
Mr. Rupert: Yes. We do have some schools that are off campus. However, there are not many of them. These schools accept children that have had the three strikes and their goal is to accept them no matter what they have done. We need more schools like that.
The judicial system has failed to stop the gangs. You referred to the policy that moved the gang leaders off to Edmonton. They were moved from Stony Mountain and out of province to try to alleviate the problem. The move did not solve the problem but spread the members out all over the place.
The tension between the inmates and the guards is very tense. The guards and the system as a whole treat the Natives very poorly. They are degraded and demeaned by the guards.
The parole system is also a problem within the judicial system. Some of these men never leave the system. Once they have become part of the federal jail system they go on to the parole system and it sometimes takes years before they are free from the system.
Senator Pearson: I have heard about your centre and its focus on children and families. We have heard evidence that young people are concerned about teenage pregnancy and problems with parenting. They have voiced concerns about children raising children. We also heard from an eloquent young man that children do not understand the relationship between sexual behaviour and commitment and engagement and love. When we asked some of these children about ``making love'' they did not know what we meant.
Do you have any ideas about programs that might break this cycle of early pregnancy?
Ms. Redsky: Teenage pregnancy is certainly and issue with our youth. Our youth also face problems with gangs and with illegal behaviour. I can answer your question by discussing all of these problems.
The Winnipeg Boys and Girls Clubs and others work to help our children reach their potential. These associations provide recreation and cultural opportunities for our children. If children do not have enough healthy choices, they end up looking for love in all the wrong places.
As community-based organizations, we must have the resources to keep these kids busy. We have to offer them healthy alternatives such as summer jobs, cultural activities, volunteer work, or leadership programs. If the community is behind these endeavours the kids are occupied and out of trouble.
We have a home for adolescent mothers, and we are in the process of opening a home for sexually exploited youth. Although in its definition it is a symptom or an outcome of their experience, we as an Aboriginal community do not look at them that way.
We want a relationship with our youth. Ma Mawi began as a response the poor treatment Aboriginal families were receiving from the child welfare system.
Senator Pearson: You are facing a great challenge. I am concerned more with the issue of sexuality than with teenage pregnancy. I think it is true that with more education, opportunities, and choices, you may curb teenage pregnancy, but we must find a way to teach the children about healthy sexuality. That sexual education must be given to both the girls and the boys. I not just talking about Aboriginal kids, I am talking about all kinds of kids.
Are you running any programs like that?
Ms. Redsky: We do have a program called Positive Adolescent Sexuality Support. That program has two facilitators that run seven workshops in the Manitoba Youth Centre. They also visit schools that will allow that kind of education. In our community centres we discuss birth control, sexuality and have a program called ``Baby Think It Over Dolls.'' Last year we added an employment component to the program. Two of our facilitators hired 15 youth in the community and trained them to deliver those seven workshops.
Senator Pearson: Excellent.
Ms. Redsky: The 15 youth are co-facilitators and they make a bit of money as well. We are consistent with our programs; they run in any weather. We have built a strong trust with the local youth. We have established long-term meaningful relationships with the kids and they have come to respect our mentors.
Senator Pearson: Thank you for giving us something for the record. You have a finely modeled program in place and we understand that funding and sustainability are important to the life of the program.
The Chairman: I would like to thank you both very much for excellent presentations.
Now, I would now like to welcome Mr. Darryl Bruce and Mr. Bill Shead.
Mr. Darryl Bruce, Executive Director, Manitoba Aboriginal Sports and Recreation Council: I would like to thank you for giving me the opportunity to share information about my organization and how we serve the Aboriginal people of Manitoba in sport and recreation.
The Winnipeg Aboriginal Sport Achievement Centre is very unique in the way that it services Aboriginal youth, aged eight to 12, in the inner city of Winnipeg. Our leadership coordinators recruit inner city kids and we provide sports camps for them. Children who usually go to sports camps are middle-to-upper class kids.
We run a recruiting program through the months of May and June. At the beginning of the summer the children are brought to the Old Exhibition grounds where they participate in the sports camp. The camp provides the children with an outdoor playing field and an indoor arena.
The children get a snack in the morning, lunch at noon, and a snack in the afternoon before returning to their drop off spots. Throughout the day they participate in a number of activities and at the end of the day we take them for a swim. The big event of the week is on Friday when the kids are taken to Fun Mountain, a place where many of them have never had the opportunity to attend.
The camp runs for six or seven weeks depending on our provincial program. During that time we see approximately 1000 youth pass through our doors. We have 36 Aboriginal leaders that are trained at different sports levels. Their levels also depend on their level of education whether it is high school, post-secondary or university.
Our camp has been in operation for four years. We have the youth achievement program that encourages high school kids to learn from senior leaders and thereby become employed when they are sufficiently trained.
The city of Winnipeg, the provincial government, and the UMAYC through the Department of Canadian Heritage provide us with our funding.
Last year we conducted a survey that asked questions such as: How many meals do you eat per day? Have you ever been involved in mainstream sports? How has this program involved you in sports and recreation?
The objective of the survey was to find out which children wanted to become part of mainstream sports.
Sports and recreation are very important to the well-being of our youth but they also serve a greater purpose in providing the kids with an outlet to keep them off the streets, and with the possibility of a career in the sports and recreation field. Many of our leaders have gone on to pursue a degree in sports and recreation at the University of Manitoba.
Our program is also culturally sensitive. We offer both First Nation and Metis components in our program.
Winnipeg's Aboriginal population is almost 60,000. We have surveyed other sports camps and found that they do not have many Aboriginal participants. In the past we have targeted inner city Aboriginal youth but our focus is about to change and will include children from the outlying areas of the city.
In this our fourth year we have incorporated a fall and winter program and includes a learn-to-skate and learn-to- swim program. The format is similar to our summer program with the children being picked up after school at 3:30. They participate in the available programs and then we give them a meal and return them to the school.
We are pleased to offer this year-round program and have been successful so far. It is great to offer the children something to do in the fall and winter months.
We are discouraged that we cannot provide enough space for all of the applicants. We have a waiting list of 20 children in one school.
We have to keep an eye on our budget and hope that we will have the funding in the future to extend this worthwhile program.
We provide training for our leaders: coach's certification, first aid and entry level courses for the University of Manitoba are available to our leaders.
Our program began with 600 youth, expanded to 1000, and now we expect 2000 to participate this year. Our goal is to make a difference in the lives of the children we teach.
We encourage the kids to become involved in mainstream sports. It is often difficult to encourage a child to think about such a career when poverty is a big issue in his or her life. Some of these children do not even own a bathing suit. Our survey indicated at out of 1000 children surveyed only 10 per cent owned their own sporting equipment. Those figures are discouraging and can open your eyes to some of the pressing issues that these inner city kids are facing.
Mr. Bill. Shead, Chair, Aboriginal Centre of Winnipeg: I am here to tell you about the Aboriginal Centre of Winnipeg and how the lessons I have learned might help you to come to a solution to the problems you have been addressing in this committee.
The Aboriginal Centre of Winnipeg is 10 years old. We are located in the old CPR railroad station, just down the street. The building will be 100 years old in 2005 and is a designated historic site. It is a grand old building that is loved for its architectural grace and for the history that it represents.
In December 1992, a group of Aboriginal organizations in the city purchased the building from Canadian Pacific and undertook to renovate the building for our needs and to preserve its historic aspects.
The building met an infrastructure need for the Aboriginal community in terms of the organizations that were serving the Aboriginal population in the city of Winnipeg. As you are probably aware, over the past several decades, the Government of Canada and other governments and agencies have been funding a number of organizations to deliver services to help Aboriginal people to make the transition into urban life. The Friendship Centre of Winnipeg was one of the first such organizations and you will undoubtedly hear of many more during these proceedings.
One of the aspects of these programs is that they receive a certain amount of funding and there is an arbitrary sum for accommodation in their budget. Generally what happens is because of the nature of funding agreements these people have to go out and they have to find accommodations, and because of the nature of the life of an agreement a landlord cannot or will not renovate the property to our needs. As a result, we have ended up with organizations scattered throughout the city, some of them in very inappropriate and substandard areas, where the facilities are not designed to fit our needs.
Some time ago, Wayne Helgason the past executive director of the Ma Mawi Wi Chi Itata Centre was looking for space for his program. He decided to cooperate or co-op with other organizations that also needed space and buy a building and renovate it to their collective needs.
They set out to accomplish three goals: to get appropriate space for their needs, concentrate their efforts to facilitate cross-referencing and communications between the various organizations and programs, and cut down on their overhead expenses and put the money saved into delivering the services they provide. Needless to say, the struggle to make this dream a reality was quite significant.
During the course of the first five years of development of the Aboriginal Centre of Winnipeg, the corporation that owns the building entered into 50 separate agreements with a couple of dozen different departments and agencies just to build or renovate a building.
I have given the clerk a list of some of those programs that invested roughly $6 million over the space of five years to accomplish this goal.
What is the point of all of this? Whatever people say about Aboriginal youth and their specific program needs they must be made aware of the broader context of a strategic approach to delivery of service and improvement of the lives of Aboriginal youth in an urban setting.
The target area has to be better defined because there are some Aboriginal youth living in cities that do not need any help. They come from middle-class families or upper middle-class families who are doing quite well, and they probably do not need support, but there are a large number of other people who really do need support and help.
You must also put their problems or their issues in the context of an urban setting. It is no use trying to cast them in the old traditional view from the north or from their own community. It is not useful, for instance, to teach an inner city Aboriginal youth how to skin a rabbit; it is not relevant to his situation.
Similarly, I think you need to take a holistic approach to the issues. We have to be careful not to have these children become program exhausted. We have to deal with the issues collectively and not in isolation. We must make sure that the children learn integrated skills that will help them in their lives outside of the programs.
No matter what happens there is a need for leadership. You need a champion. In my estimation that is the key to success. The success of the Aboriginal Centre was that we did have a champion, we did have somebody who had a vision of what this had to be, what the centre had to be. He had a passion for it and a commitment. He was able to generate support and sponsorship from a wide range of the public and non-public agencies, and had good communication skills. That is what we need in terms of strong committed leadership. We need coordination.
I think that we have initiated a number of very good projects and programs for Aboriginal people in the city. It is time now that we try to coordinate these activities because we have to reduce our overhead. We still have too many agreements that we have to administer. The list that I gave the clerk is not insignificant.
Remember, I was there; I was the chief executive officer at that time and I can remember negotiating those agreements, and I can remember how we had to get lawyers involved and so on. It is just too damned much overhead. We have to reduce it. We have to find a more efficient way of handling our human resources so that they can do the job of delivering the program instead of administering contribution agreements and administering the financial administration details.
I think that if we are going to be doing anything for the Aboriginal youth today we must build a better infrastructure. We need better sports facilities and a theatre. We must provide them with a facility that they can be proud of.
The next element that I think that we need in terms of supporting Aboriginal youth is what I call ``mentorship.'' Mentorship is not just simply having a good boss; it has everything to do with someone who is prepared to extend the hand of friendship to assist an individual as he moves along in his or her career. In my view a mentor is fundamental to the success of a young person making his or her way through life.
The final point I wanted to make is regarding the issue of cooperation. Too often we have fights among jurisdictions and I think we have to remove that competition and create some sort of long-term commitment and cooperation to address the programs. We need to express the issues of Aboriginal youth because if we do not do that we are not going to be able to solve the problem. We must all make a strong commitment to deal with the pressing issues of Aboriginal youth.
I am trying to illustrate to the members of the committee that you cannot just look at this thing in the context of each individual program. You have to integrate them. You have to make sure that you have a strategic approach. If you are writing up a report you might think that the program is good, but unless you can say what you are going to do in the broad sense I do not think you are going to have a very good report. Thank you.
Senator Tkachuk: Mr. Shead, you mentioned the need for an infrastructure. How can that be accomplished?
Mr. Shead: We can accomplish it the same way we did with the Aboriginal centre. When we built the Aboriginal centre, we did not go out and hire a group of architects and engineers to do the job. In its initial stages, our own Aboriginal people did the demolition work and by the time the work was complete our people put in roughly 300,000 work-hours. The building became part of the community and the community a part of the building. They paid for it and put in their sweat equity into it, even though it is a CPR railroad station.
Senator Tkachuk: That was point I was going to try and get at, but you are very smart and you beat me to it. Are there people involved in the process to make these things happen?
Mr. Shead: Yes, and that was how we got the Aboriginal Centre started. The centre was started with the help of great people.
Senator Tkachuk: I am not sure what that means.
Mr. Shead: Well, let me see if I can explain it a little bit better.
Senator Tkachuk: Or do not they feel at home in the city of Winnipeg and the institutions that are here now?
Mr. Shead: Well, no. Within the city, you will see a number of communities that have created what they call their own little campuses from which they have launched their lives into the broader community. The Asper Jewish Community Campus, for example, is a show place for the Jewish community.
The same thing applies here or any in city where Aboriginal people live in such large numbers. Sixty thousand people, as my colleague pointed out, is not an insignificant number of people. The problem is that we just do not have the strength and focus that other members of the community have.
Senator Tkachuk: What would foster that strength and focus? What can be done about the politics that are involved in such a venture? I raise this issue in reference to the politics involved between Metis groups.
Mr. Shead: Oh, yes.
Senator Tkachuk: Do you know what I am getting at?
Mr. Shead: Yes.
Senator Tkachuk: I mean, it is no different than orthodox and Catholics, and until we got over these issues we will never get on to the other stuff.
Mr. Shead: Senator, you are absolutely right, the politics come into play because it is an issue of jurisdiction.
The First Nations have a very difficult situation in terms of dealing with a holistic approach within an urban setting. In the city of Winnipeg you might find representatives from every band, every First Nation that exists in Manitoba, plus several representations from outside of the province. Who has jurisdiction over those people?
The chief of the Peguis Band is not going to give up jurisdiction over his people to somebody else in the city of Winnipeg. So there is an issue there, and I agree with you. The same thing applies with the Metis.
I think that there is an avenue of cooperation in terms of the service delivery to people who want to make their way in the city because I believe that when people opt to move into an urban setting they are moving in the pursuit of peace and happiness. They are looking for a new way in life that they did not have in their home community.
Now that does not just apply to Aboriginal people. You find farmers looking for a better life moving off of the land into urban communities.
The reality is that economic opportunities in the Aboriginal community do not exist. The First Nations in particular are investing heavily in education and sending their children to the urban setting for post-secondary education.
Senator St. Germain asked if we have enough people to become police officers. I would submit we have enough Aboriginal people to do anything. We have to be given the opportunity to fill these positions.
In 1975, I was seconded from the Navy to head up the Office of Native Employment in the Public Service Commission; our objective was to find Aboriginal people to come in to the Public Service of Canada. At that time, there was some difficulty finding Aboriginals to fill the positions; that is not the case today. We have tens of thousands of Aboriginal students going through post-secondary institutions that are able, willing, and ready to work in any number of professional positions.
The Chairman: Are you affiliated with the indigenous sports council?
Mr. Bruce: Yes. Actually, our organization was responsible for putting the bid in 1998-99, and the co-chairs at any time sat on the executive board, along with Mr. Shead, for the North American Indigenous Games. We currently hold seats on the NAIG executive and also the NAIG legacy.
The Chairman: I am an elder for the Indigenous Sports Council for Alberta.
We have received a concern today that this hearing was supposed to be youth speaking for youth. Our issue is urban Aboriginal youth and we have every intention of speaking to people of many ages, not just the Aboriginal youth.
What have been looking at the service gaps that are facing urban Aboriginal youth. We have established that we have to speak to the agencies to see what gaps there are, and make sure that the programs are given to the children and to the young people who need them.
We have heard from some youth organizations, but a great deal of the information that we needed has come from the institutions and agencies that serve the youth. They have provided us with useful facts and figures concerning school dropouts, Aboriginals in youth detention centres, and teenage pregnancy. We have also heard many good things from the agencies and children themselves. We have heard that the agencies are creating miracles for many youth in the area.
I have eaten in your centre's restaurant; the food is wonderful. I notice that you are also training people to do that type of work. The school is upstairs.
Do you deal with the schools to get Aboriginal children involved in sports activities?
Mr. Bruce: We do not look for children that have already enrolled in structured programs but look for children that need the direction that the achievement centre can provide.
The Chairman: Who funds your programs?
Mr. Bruce: The Urban Multipurpose Aboriginal Youth Centre provides a large portion of our funding, and we also receive funds from the provincial governments, Neighbours Alive, Aboriginal Northern Affairs, the city of Winnipeg, the Centre for Aboriginal Human Resource Development, and the Winnipeg Foundation.
The Chairman: Do you have good support from all levels of government?
Mr. Bruce: Yes.
The Chairman: Do you get support from community agencies?
Mr. Bruce: Yes, we certainly do. I was very happy to hear that UMAYC has continued its funding for at least another year.
The Chairman: We have heard nothing but good reports about the UMAYC funding and what is being done with it.
Senator Pearson: I think that sports and recreation programs for any youth, let alone Aboriginal youth, are essential to good, healthy development. I remember Ken Dryden telling me that one of the great things about sports is that you learn how to lose.
We need to allow people to make mistakes because that is what helps them to learn and so on. This is particularly true for young people because it gives them the opportunity to counterbalance some of the more difficult issues such as gangs. If you want a sense of identity and you want a sense of family then the sports experience is the place for you.
In all programs aimed at youth at-risk, the challenge has been to give them opportunities for the less expensive sports. Luckily, a lot of children like soccer, which is not very expensive.
For quite some time we have developed programs for poor kids; unfortunately, they have been taken over by the middle-class kids. As a result, the poor kids can no longer participate in the sports programs because the price of membership has risen by the ability of the middle-class to pay more for them.
How will you going to deal with that problem?
How are you going to cope with the cost of winter equipment? Is it possible to get assistance or is it possible to go after major sports hockey teams and so on to get funding for the programs?
Mr. Bruce: We asked that very question in our survey and found that very few children have winter sports equipment. Getting them into mainstream sports will not be as easy as a lot of people think. It is cost related.
Mainstream sport activities can be expensive. Just today a female Aboriginal wrestler who won the provincials called me asking for funds to send her to the national competition. She needed a plane ticket that costs $230 and the money for a registration fee that is $65. That is just one quick example of someone needing assistance.
We are looking at ways of sharing equipment. Hockey is very expensive. We are about to start a hockey program with the Manitoba Moose. We are going to outfit 30 children. It is a pilot project and we will watch how it proceeds. There is a concern about the future and how we will afford to outfit these children in a full set of hockey gear; it costs approximately $500.
There is not quick solution. We are encouraging young children to get into mainstream sports not knowing if they will be able to continue later because of financial concerns. If the child is really interested, he should have the opportunity to continue participating in the sport. It will be up to us to point this out to the public and look for contributions.
Mr. Pearson: A psychiatrist named Dan Offord has conducted research into these issues. He is the executive director or the Canadian Centre for Studies of Children at Risk. I refer you to his work on this subject. It is always helpful to learn from others and not to have to reinvent it yourself.
Many years ago Dr. Offord began a program in Ottawa that found its recruits in the subsidized housing areas of the city. It was very successful. We face the same challenges that he did. We have to do the recruiting and often have to pick up and return the children to their homes. We have to be mentors, teachers, chauffeurs, and coaches. It is a big challenge.
Dr. Offord's project looked at that very carefully and found that it had a great cost-benefit; the policing costs in the neighbourhood dropped significantly while his program was running. The entire neighbourhood benefited from the program with fewer false fire alarms and fewer cases of vandalism. It was realized that the program had paid for itself. Once the program stopped, for reasons out of Dr. Offords control, juvenile crime rose again.
Senator Johnson: Mr. Bruce, how many athletes are in your programs, and how many kids are in your programs?
Mr. Bruce: Almost 2000 children have gone through the Winnipeg Aboriginal Sports Achievement Centre. We have about 1000 children in the summer program and in our fall-winter program we have 40 kids a night four times a week. We also have our learn-to-swim, learn-to-skate, and our youth achievement program. Our winter adventures program will run for the first time this year. Our facility is filled to capacity at the present time.
Senator Johnson: Do mentally handicapped athletes participate in the program?
Mr. Bruce: Through a different component of our organization, we run the Manitoba Indigenous Summer Games and we do have a Special Olympics component there partnering with Special Olympics in Manitoba.
Senator Johnson: Do you hold paralympics as well?
Mr. Bruce: No. We do participate in the Special Olympics as part of the games with North American Indigenous Games.
Senator Johnson: That is excellent. Thank you.
Senator Léger: Mr. Bruce and Mr. Shead, I have a pamphlet here that reads the Manitoba Aboriginal Sport and Recreation Council, however, on the agenda you are referred to as the Manitoba Aboriginal Sports Council. Have the two been separated?
Mr. Bruce: No.
Senator Léger: Your mission statement is to assist the people in Manitoba to participate in their chosen level in any sport, recreation or leisure time opportunity. Nothing was said at all about the recreation or leisure time of the arts. Is that because you are sports specialists?
Mr. Bruce: No. The Sports Achievement Centre comes from the acronym for WASAC The Winnipeg Aboriginal Sports Achievement Centre. We do provide culture and art to our children but that component of the program is not mentioned in the name.
However, sport takes a little bit more of a role because of the part that we played for the North American Indigenous Games, which are all sports-related. We have a strong partnership with all of the recreation leadership in the Aboriginal communities throughout the province.
Senator Léger: It is like that everywhere. ``Sports'' is always in capital letters and ``arts'' has small letters. I am just happy to hear that the arts are included in your program.
Do you have an artistic element in your summer games on July 1?
Mr. Bruce: There is indeed a cultural component to the games. We do not focus on the arts in particular though.
Senator St. Germain: Do you have gymnastics competitions?
Senator Léger: No, no, further than that.
Senator Tkachuk: Do you have the pole vault?
Senator Léger: Perhaps bit by bit I would like that every time we mention sport we also say ``And the artistic aspect also,'' even if we do not develop it.
I am referring to an opening ceremony and a closing ceremony and a half-time show. The cultural arts can be displayed during those times.
Mr. Bruce: We love to express our Aboriginal culture and do so during the opening and closing ceremonies.
Senator Léger: That is why I suggest that you advertise the cultural aspect of the games. Culture enriches the games themselves and sends the message to the non-sporting types that there is value in pursuing the arts.
Mr. Bruce: Yes, I agree and I think we had a fine show at North American Indigenous Games opening ceremonies. Twenty-four thousand people did not watch the sports venues, but saw the cultural component and all of the different performers.
Senator Léger: Perhaps we will be able to add: ``And the artists'' to your advertising. Politicians could do the same with all of the elections coming up right now; they all need a jingle. Thank you, Mr. Bruce.
Mr. Shead, do we protect our visionaries? Do the visionaries burn out because of their dedication and commitment to the programs? Are we putting enough money into the protection of our precious people?
Mr. Shead: Senator, you raise a very good point. Aboriginal organizations by their nature are relatively small and the human resources that they employ to deliver their programs can be exhausted pretty quickly through changeovers and so on. Talented people can leave pretty quickly to go on to other challenges. Very often a good leader will move on to bigger challenges as the challenges present themselves.
I believe that we have to be able to reduce the chances of losing people by consolidating and coordinating our efforts, so that when we have a pool of people dealing with something they can see a specific career pattern that they can follow. It is much the same as if you are in the Canadian Forces, you can be promoted with additional responsibilities but you are still working for the same organization.
Many of our organization do not even have a personnel security plan. They do not have retirement funds, or any benefits, so it becomes very difficult to be able to keep people in the organization, and besides that, we do not pay them well enough.
When we are trying to deal with the issue, we have to look at the administration. What are we doing to the people who are involved? Your point is quite well taken. I think that we have overlooked it.
We have scattered our efforts among so many departments and agencies that we do not have the ability to bring them all together. It is almost like having some of those super ministries that we had during the Trudeau days. They were not departments; they were coordinating agencies without working budgets. We face a similar situation today.
We have to find a way to put the agencies together under one department that has a real budget and real ministries. The Aboriginal Centre and all the other organizations should be put under one corporate structure so that we have a single board, instead of 20 boards. It needs to have a single human resource management centre so that we can accomplish some of the things that we have talked about. Once this system is in place it will make it easier to employ and keep specialists. For instance, a program director will be able to advance to the position of executive director of a group and then perhaps the president of the whole corporation. The possibilities are endless. Unfortunately, we are not there yet.
Senator Léger: We can include your recommendation when we complete the work of this committee and perhaps we can get you there sooner.
Mr. Shead: We should be looking and these kind of possibilities. We must look to the future.
The point that you raised about culture is very important and I do not want you to go away with the thoughts that it is not happening. It is happening.
We had a very strong cultural component in the North American Indigenous Games. The cultural activity was well attended. The sports were there for the participants, officials and the coaches, but the cultural events were there for everyone, including the visitors and the spectators. There were musicians and artists, and so on that participated in the event. We have a cultural component but we do not state it in our advertising.
Senator Léger: Maybe we could start to advertise it.
Mr. Shead: We do it, but we do not say it.
Senator Léger: I think we should start somewhere.
Senator St. Germain: Canadian cities have huge cultural industries.
Senator Léger: Well, we know about the Winnipeg Ballet. I would like all of the other smaller ballets to get a title, too.
Senator Tkachuk: We are not culturally deprived in the west.
Senator Chaput: What is the ratio of girls to boys in your recruitment campaign?
Mr. Bruce: Many people are surprised to see that 55 per cent of our recruits were female; 45 per cent were male.
The Chairman: I would like to thank you both very much for very interesting presentations and good luck.
The committee adjourned.