Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Agriculture and Forestry
Issue 1 - Evidence - Meeting of October 29, 2002
OTTAWA, Tuesday, October 29, 2002
The Standing Senate Committee on Agriculture and Forestry met this day at 5:30 p.m., pursuant to rule 88 of the Rules of the Senate, to organize the activities of the committee.
[English]
Mr. Daniel Charbonneau, Clerk of the Committee: Honourable senators, as the clerk of the committee, it is my duty to preside over the election of the chair of your committee. I am now ready to receive motions to that effect.
Senator LaPierre: I should like to nominate Senator Oliver as chairman of this committee.
The Clerk: It is moved by Senator LaPierre that the Honourable Senator Oliver be elected chair of this committee. Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Clerk: I would invite Senator Oliver to take the chair.
Senator Donald H. Oliver (Chairman) in the Chair.
The Chairman: Honourable senators, it is with great pleasure and humility that I accept the responsibility to chair this great committee. It has been an honour to work with all of you in the past, and I look forward to our future deliberations as we examine, challenge and improve agriculture and forestry policy on the part of our great country.
I wish to take this opportunity to pay tribute to Senator Gustafson. As many of you know already, Senator Gustafson first assumed the chair that I now occupy in 1996. Under his leadership, this committee has set an impressive standard for hard work, in-depth analysis and strong realistic solutions. Over the eight-year period, he chaired some 130 meetings of this committee and heard over 480 witnesses. With Senator Gustafson at the helm, this committee demonstrated a great deal of influence on agriculture and forestry in Canada with its review of eight different bills and the tabling of seven substantive reports dealing with such issues as trade, food safety and the environment. It is truly an impressive record. Congratulations, Senator Gustafson.
Hon. Senators: Hear, hear!
The Chairman: I should also like to thank Senator Wiebe for his contribution as the deputy chair. I have come to appreciate his wisdom and candour over the last few years and I have told him that on several occasions. Senator Wiebe is very much the philosopher of this group. Senator Wiebe has taught us all to think outside the box. Senator Wiebe, it is deeply appreciated.
Hon. Senators: Hear, hear!
The Chairman: The committee has exceptional researchers from the Library of Parliament as well. I wish to acknowledge the outstanding contribution of Frederic Forge and Lorie Srivastiva. Thank you very much.
Hon. Senators: Hear, hear!
The Chairman: Honourable senators, over the years this committee has covered a vast amount of ground. We touched several areas relating to agriculture and forestry. With your participation, it is my sincere hope that we can now focus our attention to further explore some of the important issues before us. With the agriculture policy framework taking shape and with some key outstanding issues in forestry, it is critical that we take a long, hard look at what is happening in Canada and play our role in shaping public policy. I look forward to all of us working together.
The next item on the agenda that has been handed out and circulated is a motion for the deputy chair.
Senator Day: I move that Honourable Senator Wiebe be appointed deputy chair of this committee.
The Chairman: Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: May I have a motion on the membership of the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure?
Senator Wiebe: I nominate Senator Chalifoux.
The Chairman: Honourable senators, are you in favour of the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: It has been suggested that I ensure that we have all of the subclauses in item No. 3, so I will read them.
It is moved by the Honourable Senator Wiebe —
That the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be composed of the Chair, the Deputy Chair, and one other member of the committee, to be designated after the usual consultation; and,
That the subcommittee be empowered to make decisions on behalf of the committee with respect to its agenda, to invite witnesses, and to schedule hearings.
Is it agreed, honourable senators?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: With respect to item No. 4, which is a motion to print the committee's proceedings, may I have a mover.
Senator Fairbairn: I so move.
The Chairman: Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Item No. 5 is an authorization to hold meetings and to print evidence when quorum is not present. Do I have a motion to that effect?
Senator Gustafson: I so move.
The Chairman: All in favour.
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: May I have a mover for Item No. 6, Financial Report.
Senator LaPierre: I so move.
The Chairman: All in favour?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Item No. 7 relates to research staff. It is moved by the Honourable Senator Fairbairn —
That the committee ask the Library of Parliament to assign research officers to the Committee;
That the Chair be authorized to seek authority from the Senate to engage the necessary services of such counsel and technical, clerical, and other personnel as may be necessary for the purpose of the committee's examination and consideration of such bills, subject-matters of bills, and estimates as are referred to it;
That the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be authorized to retain the services of such experts as may be required by the work of the committee; and
That the Chair, on behalf of the committee, direct the research staff in the preparation of studies, analyses, summaries, and draft reports.
The Chairman: All in favour?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Item No. 8 relates to the authority to commit funds and certify accounts. It is moved by the Honourable Senator Hubley —
That, pursuant to section 32 of the Financial Administration Act, authority to commit funds be conferred individually on the Chair, the Deputy Chair, and the Clerk of the Committee; and
That, pursuant to section 34 of the Financial Administration Act, and Guideline 3:05 of Appendix II of the Rules of the Senate, authority for certifying accounts payable by the Committee be conferred individually on the Chair, the Deputy Chair, and the Clerk of the Committee.
Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: May I have a motion for item No. 9.
Senator LeBreton: I so move.
The Chairman: Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Item No. 10 is a motion for the designation of members travelling on committee business. It is moved by the Honourable Senator Chalifoux —
That the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be authorized to:
1) determine whether any member of the Committee is on ``official business'' for the purposes of paragraph 8(3)(a) of the Senators Attendance Policy, published in the Journals of the Senate on Wednesday, June 3, 1998; and
2) consider any member of the committee to be on ``official business'' if that member is: (a) attending a function, event or meeting related to the work of the committee; or (b) making a presentation related to the work of the committee.
Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Item No. 11 relates to travelling and living expenses of witness. It is moved by the Honourable Senator Hubley —
That, pursuant to the Senate guidelines for witnesses expenses, the committee may reimburse reasonable travelling and living expenses for one witness from any one organization and payment will take place upon application, but that the Chair be authorized to approve expenses for a second witness should there be exceptional circumstances.
Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Item No. 12, electronic media coverage of public meetings. It is moved by the Honourable Senator Fairbairn —
That the Chair be authorized to seek permission from the Senate to permit coverage by electronic media of its public proceedings with the least possible disruption of its hearings; and
That the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be empowered to allow such coverage at its discretion.
All in favour?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: The next item on our agenda is the time slot for regular meetings. This committee has traditionally met when the Senate rises, but not before 5:30 p.m., on Tuesdays and on Thursdays at 8:30 a.m.
Is it the wish of the committee that those be the time slots we meet?
Senator LaPierre: Until what time will the committee meet on Tuesdays, from 5:30 to what time?
The Chairman: Until the completion of business.
Senator LaPierre: In other committees that I have been organized at, with or by, it seems that there has been a deadline; otherwise, we could be here all night. I think we should specify 5:30 until about 8:30. Furthermore, the dinner is no hell, and the coffee is generally lousy. It seems to me that we should have a deadline for this matter. Otherwise, we could be here all night long.
Second, why do we meet twice a week? Would it not be better, Mr. Chairman, to meet once a week, to be very disciplined and do our work at one time slot per week? If we were to meet for three or four hours on Tuesday — preferably Tuesday — we would not need to meet on Thursday at the ungodly hour of 8:30 a.m. We must develop some form of sanity for these matters.
Senator Day: As I understand it, we do not necessarily have to use these time slots, if the committee has no business. However, if the committee has business, then we would want them.
The Chairman: That is right. They are time slots that have been assigned to this committee by the administration so that there are not any conflicts.
Senator LaPierre: I can move at any time that we do not sit. I move that we do not sit on Tuesday.
Senator Fairbairn: I believe, honourable senators, that the practice over the last several years has been to have the Thursday meetings, which were often also convenient for witnesses, and that we have not been meeting Tuesday nights on a regular basis, just when needed.
Senator Day: That would be up to the direction of the committee.
Senator LeBreton: On Thursdays, it may conflict with other committees. If the meeting were to start at 8:30 and continue for three or four hours, some committee members may find themselves in conflict with another committee.
Senator LaPierre: What are we saying?
The Chairman: That we cannot meet for more than two hours. I know that on Thursdays I used to have to leave to be on time for the Transport Committee.
Senator LeBreton: The same with the Social Affairs Committee.
Senator Fairbairn: Is it a two-hour slot, or is it two-and-a-half hours?
Senator Wiebe: I have no objection to us keeping the two time slots. Those are the time slots that have been allocated to us. However, there is some great value to putting a time limit on the meetings, say two hours. Many of us are on other committees. It is helpful to know that the meeting will adjourn at a certain time.
The same logic applies to our witnesses. It is much easier to schedule witnesses if we know ahead of time the time at which the committee will adjourn. I do not know whether we require that in a motion or whether it is an understanding. Perhaps the clerk could help us with that.
The Chairman: There is a general understanding that we put a time limit on it and that the time limit be for two hours.
Senator Gustafson: I should like to see some provision in there giving special consideration under special circumstances. For example, it would be undesirable for the committee to bring in witnesses from afar but not to have sufficient time in which to hear them. Certainly, we could go along with a guideline and make room for an exception.
Senator LaPierre: Of two hours.
The Chairman: Is there an agreement that we will do it by consensus? We will try to keep it to two hours. However, if there were something exceptional, we would go on for another 15 or 20 minutes, if needed.
Senator LaPierre: Very wise.
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Is there any other business to come before the committee at this time?
Senator Fairbairn: Honourable senators, to follow up on your remarks at the beginning, as one who served for a number of years as deputy chair, I should simply like to thank Senator Gustafson for his devotion to his job as chair of this committee. It was a difficult time. We were going through difficult periods of agriculture all over the country. I simply want to recognize the leadership that he showed. Also, one of the great things about the Senate, when you are on these committees and work together, is that you form friendships. I value the friendship that we formed together on the committee. I am glad you are sticking with it. Thank you.
Senator Gustafson: If I may respond, I should like to say I enjoyed it. It was the best committee in Parliament, not because I chaired it but because of the people involved. I think Senator Oliver should print his fine speech in the Gazette. I have never heard such glowing reports in 23 years.
Senator Fairbairn: Every word is deserved.
Senator Day: Why do we not give it broad coverage and put it in The Hill Times?
Senator Gustafson: Why not?
The Chairman: Honourable senators, may I have a motion to move in camera, pursuant to rule 92(2)(e), to discuss the ongoing business of the committee.
Senator Day: I so move.
The committee continued in camera.