Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Fisheries and Oceans
Issue 12 - Evidence
OTTAWA, Wednesday, September 24, 2003
The Standing Senate Committee on Fisheries and Oceans met this day at 6:27 p.m. to examine and report upon the matters relating to quota allocations and benefits to Nunavut and Nunavik fishermen.
Senator Gerald J. Comeau (Chairman) in the Chair.
[Editor's Note: Some evidence was presented through an Inuktitut interpreter.]
[English]
The Chairman: Welcome. We will continue our examination and report upon matters relating to quota allocations and benefits to Nunavut and Nunavik fishermen. We have a couple of groups of witnesses this evening. We would like each group of witnesses to make a presentation for about 10 minutes. We will then go into the important part of the meeting, which is the dialogue.
If there is any information you wanted to have as an opening statement, we can make it part of the record. It is most important that we be able to go into a dialogue.
This evening we have, from the Nattivak Hunters and Trappers Organization, Mr. Morrissey Kunillusie and Mr. Stevie Audlakiak, both of whom are divers. Second, from the Namautaq Hunters and Trappers Organization, we have Mr. Steven Aipellee, the chair.
Welcome to Ottawa and to the Standing Senate Committee on Fisheries and Oceans. Please proceed.
Mr. Morrissey Kunillusie, Vice-Chair, Nattivak Hunters and Trappers Organization: I represent the Nattivak Hunters and Trappers Organization and diving group. I am here with Stevie Audlakiak from the Nattivak Hunters and Trappers Organization.
The Department of Fisheries and Oceans decision in May 2003 not only disappointed Nunavutmiut, we believe that the decision breaches article 15.3.7 of the Nunavut Land Claims Agreement, NLCA, which says:
Government recognizes the importance of the principles of adjacency and economic dependence of communities in the Nunavut Settlement Area on marine resources, and shall give special consideration to these factors in allocating commercial fishing licences within Zones I and II.
When something like this happens, it does not usually pass by without being examined. I think the Government of Nunavut is doing the right thing in taking action against the DFO decision. I hope that if the DFO decision is determined to be in breach of article 15.3.7 of the NLCA, the costs of that decision and how it circumvented the Nunavut Land Claims Agreement be made well known.
Nunavut has one and a half of the 17 core shrimp licences for fishing shrimp in its adjacent waters. This represents only 19 per cent of the total allowable catch. In November 2002, a DFO committee had advised against granting additional access to non-Nunavut interests until the territory has achieved access to a major share of these resources. In May 2003, DFO granted 51 per cent of 2,127 new tons of shrimp to non-Nunavut interests.
Fishing in the offshore is still young in Nunavut. It will take time to grow. The May 2003 DFO decision should not discourage Nunavut fishermen and those who want to fish in Nunavut waters in the future. Baffin Fisheries Coalition is looking into acquiring a factory freezer trawler and Leesee Papatsie of Jencor Fisheries in Iqaluit, Nunavut, has said that she is also getting a factory freezer trawler. I believe the best way to enforce article 15.3.7 of the Nunavut Land Claims Agreement is to get fishing vessels and fish in Nunavut waters with Nunavut crews.
Second, Nunavut clams. The spring of 2003 also has brought some disappointments to Nunavut clam harvesters. In April 2003, the DFO interrupted all future harvesting until the Canadian Food Inspection Agency, CFIA, and Nunavut Department of Sustainable Development agree on the testing protocol to grant fishers the Canadian Shellfish Sanitation Program, CSSP, certification required as a condition of their future licences.
Testing protocol is not the only issue that interrupted the clam harvesting in the community of Qikiqtarjuaq. The other issue is who should pay for the testing protocol. Nunavut Department of Sustainable Development felt that it is federal jurisdiction and that the CFIA should pay.
Qikiqtarjuak divers and harvesters are in support of testing clams in Nunavut. However, there is a downside, as clam harvesters will lose half, or more, of their harvesting time. Clams harvested in one week will sit in the community freezer for a week or more before the federal agency says we can sell the clams.
With further potential growth, the clam fishery created 10 diving/harvesting jobs through Qikiqtarjuaq Diving Group Incorporated and other two independent divers/harvesters. The community of Qikiqtarjuaq has a population of 550 and 80 per cent to 90 per cent of its residents do not have full-time employment. There is no industry and no economic base in the community.
In 1997, Qikiqtarjuaq waters revealed the presence of a clam biomass of 37,000 tons. The clam fishery could take part in changing the community of Qikiqtarjuaq.
Third, residents of Qikiqtarjuak want to see more benefits. They want to have a fish plant in the community. The best way to maximize the benefits from the NAFO subarea 0 fishery is to bring part of the fishing to the communities.
It is understandable that the factory freezer trawlers cannot create employment in the communities that are adjacent to NAFO subarea 0 and it is also known that only small vessels can bring employment to the community.
As the use of long-line vessels will be encouraged in the waters adjacent to Nunavut NAFO subarea 0 in the Department of Fisheries and Oceans' draft management plan for Greenland halibut for 2003 to 2005, we hope the plan will create employment within the communities that are adjacent adjacent to NAFO subarea 0.
Qikiqtarjuaq Development Corporation, QDC, was formed by three community organizations this year with the intention of creating employment for the residents of Qikiqtarjuaq. QDC will plan to look into allocation of quota this coming winter from NAFO subarea 0.
The Hunters and Trappers Organization of Qikiqtarjuaq fully support the idea of the Qikiqtarjuaq Development Corporation's intention to look into allocation of quota from NAFO subarea 0.
The Chairman: Thank you for that presentation. We look forward to the questions. I believe we will go to the second presenter.
Mr. Steven Aipellee, Chair, Namautaq Hunters and Trappers Organization: Thank you for the invitation to speak concerning the quota allocation and benefits to northern fishers. We have 430 members with a population of approximately 820 people. Half the population is under the age of 15. We have a very high unemployment rate. George Iqalukjuaq, an income support worker in Clyde River, did a survey seven years ago that showed a 70 per cent unemployment rate in our community.
In the last few years, there has been more interest in fishing turbot inshore as well as offshore, but we have run into obstacles that I will explain briefly.
First, we have lost two 40-foot fishing vessels in the last 10 years due to lack of breakwater resources in our community. We get strong south winds and we do not have adequate shelter for the boats. The community purchased a 26-foot aluminum boat, which does not meet fishing requirements. Repairs can be made to the two boats, but we do not have the resources to fix them.
The community freezer would have to be expanded. Our current freezer often is unserviceable due to aged equipment. A contractor has to be flown in to make repairs. This year, our freezer was unserviceable for five months.
We currently receive 45 metric tons from the OB quota and revenue generated from this is used for the community. We have seasonal employment; cabins are built for shelter in hunting grounds and community hunts. Upon having more access to OA turbot quotas, in the future we could provide much needed employment in the fishing industry.
This spring, six local fishermen were trained near Clyde in fishing turbot through ice. They were encouraged to continue ice fishing. As well, there are plans for more turbot test fishing by boat next year. We hope we can benefit in obtaining more quotas to our community so that we can provide employment and reduce the high unemployment rate in our community. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman: Thank you very much. I am sure that your comments will bring out some questions from our committee members. We will first start with Senator Adams.
Senator Adams: I will first make sure that the English translation is working properly when we speak in Inuktitut.
[Interpretation]
As we are speaking of these issues and would like to add more comments on this that are not on your presentation, please feel free to add any information. This also applies to your partners.
Mr. Stevie Audlakiak: As Inuit in the North, we know that there are not a lot of economic resources. In Clyde River and Baffin Island, there is not a lot that we can use as economic resources. Animals that we can use to sustain ourselves economically are not readily available. We know that clams are available to be used for the purpose of making money. We can try to sustain ourselves economically through these clams. There is really not much else around the waters in our areas.
I can use Pangnirtung as an example. They have resources. However, Qikiqtarjuaq and Clyde River have difficulties trying to get anything as economic resources other than the clams and fishing. This seems to be the only way for us right now for economic reasons.
In Kimmirut, soapstone is a resource that can be used for carvings. However, Qikiqtarjuaq and Clyde River do not have these resources. The settlements do not have the same resources.
Senator Adams: Mr. Kunillusie, how long have you been working on this harvest? Could you tell us more about when you began and what you have been doing in your area in Nunavut? When did this begin for you?
Mr. Kunillusie: From what I understand, this began in 1981 with the halibut fishing in the Qikiqtarjuaq area.
Senator Adams: I am asking with regards to the quotas that have been allocated. Was there anything before the Pangnirtung fishing industry?
Mr. Kunillusie: I worked with the hunters and trappers in Pangnirtung in 1986. I can only answer you with what I have seen on paper. I believe they began in 1986.
Senator Adams: We are now looking at the Fisheries and Oceans issues. I believe you have seen that there are fishing vessels that do come up to your area. How would it help you to begin to pursue the fishing industry where Newfoundland and Halifax fishers have come to your area? How can Inuit work on this issue?
Mr. Kunillusie: I believe we can have a part in this with ships that are not too large. Many Inuit have now had experience in working in these ships. We need more help from outside the communities in regard to obtaining vessels. This is a very doable prospect for the Inuit.
Senator Adams: Fishing vessels do come up from Newfoundland and you have worked on these ships. Do you know if Inuit can take part in this?
Mr. Kunillusie: Yes, it is very possible. I worked on these ships from 1992 until 2000. I worked on a shrimp fishing vessel. Many other Inuit have worked on these ships. These ships came from Nova Scotia especially. I am not too sure about the other vessels in the companies. A lot of these vessels employ many Inuit; on some of the vessels, the majority of the employees are Inuit.
Senator Adams: With section 0A in the Inuit waters, the bigger part of the quotas are not directed to the Inuit people and their communities — namely, the 4,000 metric tons allowable in these areas and the experimental quotas given to the communities. The majority of the quotas — such as the 4,000 metric tons — are given to Newfoundland fisheries. Was it the government who fixed this, or the Baffin Fisheries Coalition, BFC?
Mr. Kunillusie: I have not met often with the BFC, and I do not know how they set this up in the beginning. I two meetings, but I did not understand clearly how they came about this figure.
Senator Adams: In Qikiqtarjuaq, the 330-ton allowable quotas are given to the different fisheries; your quotas are bigger than Clyde River and Pond Inlet. Are these run by the hunters and trappers associations in the communities?
Mr. Kunillusie: Yes, we need to obtain quotas from the hunters and trappers. When we do obtain them, we give those 330 tons to Nova Scotia fisheries. The hunters and trappers' funding is not enough to take the 330-ton quotas given. They have two vessels. However, the 330-ton quotas given to the hunters and trappers, some of that is given to the other fisheries. If the hunters and trappers did not have the quota, their office and their vessels would not be in operation.
Senator Adams: There are 4,000 metric tons that are not given to the Inuit. If this quantity had been directed to Inuit and the quotas given to the Inuit had been increased, would that be helpful to you?
Mr. Kunillusie: Yes, it would be more beneficial for the communities. Perhaps Mr. Aipellee can answer some of these questions better.
Senator Adams: If you can answer a short question, because we do have more questions coming?
Mr. Audlakiak: I will just elaborate on what Mr. Kunillusie has said. Hunters and trappers' funding operations are not enough. The quota given to the organization helps us, but not necessarily the people in the community. However, we can help the people in the community. We say we need to give aid for food to women without husbands. This is a resource where women like this are helped. We can use this resource in other areas. Our office is maintained by the quotas that we receive; the operations that go on in our communities come from these quotas.
Many of the organizations in other communities do not have a lot of funding available to maintain their organizations. This is one resource that helps us and the Inuit in the communities. We are asking for more. This is what we understand. These are reasons to help our Inuit — not just for myself, not just for the people in Qikiqtarjuaq — it helps everyone in the communities.
Senator Adams: I have one more question, Chairman. You mentioned earlier, Mr. Kunillusie, about the clams. Mr. Audlakiak, you are one of the 10 divers that has a licence to operate. Have you fixed how this will work? How will this work on a year-to-year basis and what quota there is? We do not yet have the lab available for the communities. Is that the reason why the harvesting has been interrupted in Qikiqtarjuaq?
Mr. Kunillusie: Our operation has been interrupted because of the quotas and also be cause there is not enough funding available. It was asked, how much quota do we have with regards to the funding available? We need additional funding, and we do not have the quota.
Senator Adams: How much do the inspections by the Canadian Food Inspection Agency cost?
Mr. Kunillusie: I have heard that the inspections cost anywhere between $50,000 and $60,000 per year.
[English]
Senator Adams: I do not want to ask a lot of questions.
The Chairman: Could we get you on the second round?
Senator Adams: Yes.
The Chairman: I know we have a lot of other questions coming this evening. I will go now to Senator Watt.
[Interpretation]
Senator Watt: Thank you for coming down. I will also be speaking in Inuktitut. As you were giving your presentation, I think I understood some things, but I would like more clarification.
To provide employment for people in your communities, you are not asking for the bigger fishing vessels, you are asking for something more useful for the Inuit. Is that correct?
Mr. Kunillusie: It is known that the smaller the vessel, the more useful it is — in our area, at least. There is employment available in these bigger ships, but they do not allow a lot of employment within the communities. The smaller vessels will provide more employment within the community.
Senator Watt: If I understand this clearly — I do not know if other people here are as confused as I am — you said that you make money out of the 330-ton quota that is given to you. Is that what you said?
Mr. Kunillusie: A quota of 330 tons in 0B was given to Nattivak.
Senator Watt: Is that near the Davis Strait area — thesub-area 0? Of the two areas, is that the one that is further north?
Mr. Kunillusie: The 0B area begins at Cape Dyer but I do not know where it ends — perhaps at the Resolution Islands.
Senator Watt: Is that the same as the zero area in your presentation?
Mr. Kunillusie: They are 0A and 0B.
Senator Watt: The presentation refers to both 0A and 0B. You need to become more economically independent and to have more employment available in your communities. Am I right to think that you would charter vessels or would you consider a partnership with other vessels to improve your economic independence?
Mr. Aipellee: There is not much employment in the communities of the 0B where the quotas were given. The people who leave the communities to work on the ships leave their families for one to two months. That is the only way they can work, by leaving their families, and not too many men are willing to do that. If we were to fix up the smaller vessels, and with the quotas in the 0B area, we could have employment for the people in our communities. The fishers could go out for 10 days at a time and then come home. In that way, they would not have to leave their families for one or more months at a time.
We would want to use the smaller vessels more often because that is the communities' preference. We would be able to provide more employment to the people in our communities. The people who do leave the communities to work on the bigger fishing vessels are reluctant to leave their families.
Senator Watt: From Jencor Fisheries, Ms. Leesee Papatsie, Owner, and Cathy Towtongie, President, presented before the committee last week. Ms. Papatsie described how things are going right now. She said that DFO has not allotted enough quotas and if she were able to receive a quota, she would be able to obtain funding from the banks for the infrastructure. From what we understand, it could be difficult to change the quotas given by DFO. We just do not know for certain.
Do you want to make any suggestions to the Fisheries and Oceans Committee about another way to do things?
Mr. Aipellee: What was your last question?
Senator Watt: My question was about the quota issued by the Department of Fisheries and Oceans. I doubt that they will increase the quotas right now, given the current realities. If we do not have increased quotas, then it will be very difficult for the fisheries to get started. Is there something that the committee could do right now that would help you?
Mr. Aipellee: Since we do not have a very high quota, I would want to ask for more. However, our vessels are broken and we do not have docking facilities. If we were to know what quotas we would have, it would help us to prepare for the future, to have our vessels repaired and to grow from that point with more employment in the communities.
The bottom line is that there is not much employment in the communities. We are always thinking of what more we could do to bring in more employment? We do give a little bit from the 0A quotas to the Baffin Fisheries Coalition. However, that does not bring employment to the communities. Some people leave to work the larger vessels away from the communities and that does not help the communities.
Senator Watt: I understood, at last week's meeting, Ms. Towtongie to say that she would like to see 85 per cent of the quotas. She indicated that is what she wants. I understood her to say that if they were to receive 85 per cent — or the majority of the quota — they would then qualify for funding from the banks to build the infrastructures. It was my understanding from their presentation that funding is one of the issues, whether it comes from the Nunavut Trust. It is important for people to go after those funding issues and not wait for the quotas to be increased if there are other ways to create economic viability.
Mr. Kunillusie: In our communities, in Qikiqtarjuaq, they speak of asking for change. I can relate their thoughts of change to you. There are many opportunities right now but they do not bring employment into the community. It has been said that the smaller the vessel the more employment could be brought into the communities.
[English]
Senator Cochrane: I am pleased that you are here to share with us some of the problems that you have in your region. I want to continue on with what my colleague has just said about the quota allocation.
You say that the hunters and the trappers in your area get a quota of 330 metric tons. Is that all that you get in regards to a quota — 330 metric tons?
The other 4,000 metric tons are given to people outside of Nunavut. Is that correct?
Mr. Kunillusie: In 0B area, the community of Qikiqtarjuaq receives 330 tons. I think the total quota there is 1,500 tons.
Senator Cochrane: How much?
Mr. Kunillusie: Nunavut gets 1500 tons from regulatory area 0B. Of that figure, my community gets 330 tons. A total of 4,000 tons from 0B go outside.
Senator Cochrane: You have the Baffin Fisheries Coalition. Do they decide on the quota?
Mr. Kunillusie: That is for 0A Baffin Fisheries Coalition. It is the 0A quota.
Senator Cochrane: They give the 330 tons. Do they allocate that amount?
Mr. Kunillusie: Not from BFC. My community does not get quota from BFC. We get quota from 0B, not from 0A.
Senator Cochrane: What can we do to foster a fair distribution of the quota? What can be done here? That is what you are asking, is it not? You want a fair distribution of the fish quota?
Mr. Kunillusie: Yes. We want a fair distribution.
Senator Cochrane: How can that be done?
Mr. Aipellee: It all depends on the size of the fishing boats that the communities have. We have two fishing boats in our community that are unserviceable. If we had those two boats running, the 0A commitment we would be looking for would be 1,000 tons.
Harry Earl did a survey that compared the size of the boat with the size of the catch. He told us what we could expect to catch with a 45-foot boat and a 65-foot boat.
Senator Cochrane: Currently, the two vessels that you have are not in operation?
Mr. Aipellee: That is right.
Senator Cochrane: They need repairs.
Mr. Aipellee: That is right.
Senator Cochrane: Are you saying that if they were repaired you could fish and get the quota that you want? Is that the problem you have?
Mr. Kunillusie: It is an experimental quota.
Senator Cochrane: What about the clams? Have you not been fishing with clams for quite a while? How many years?
Mr. Kunillusie: Since 1997.
Mr. Aipellee: 1996.
Senator Cochrane: What has happened now that you are suddenly having a problem with the clams?
Mr. Kunillusie: DFO were issuing licences, but they did not reissue it this year. There is no clam quota at this moment.
Senator Cochrane: Why are they not issuing licences this year?
Mr. Kunillusie: The Contaminated Sediments Science Plan, CSSP, was part of the problem and part of the reason for not reissuing the licences.
Senator Cochrane: CSSP is sort of a testing to see if there is anything in the clams that should prevent people from eating them. Is that right?
Mr. Kunillusie: Yes.
Senator Cochrane: Do you not have that before?
Mr. Kunillusie: No, we did not have that.
Senator Cochrane: DFO did not require that?
Mr. Kunillusie: No.
Senator Cochrane: Does DFO have anything in place now where they can provide the testing so that you can get on with your clam fishery?
Mr. Kunillusie: Not yet. We are trying to get a CSSP in place now.
Senator Cochrane: Do you know how long it will take?
Mr. Kunillusie: We expect to hear what will happen soon.
Senator Cochrane: How is your clam fishery doing in regards to your economy?
Mr. Kunillusie: It has helped to create 10 diver-harvesters and two local independent divers-harvesters for a total of 12. Right now, there is no licence. The only way we can make this run smoothly is if we can borrow money. We cannot borrow because we do not have a quota. That is the problem.
Senator Cochrane: They told us last week as well.
Mr. Kunillusie: We are in almost the same situation as Lessee Papatsie with clam fishing.
Senator Cochrane: There is something else on which I am not quite clear. Tell me about the other boats that are fishing — not the Inuit boats, but other boats. You say the Inuit people do go on board and make a half decent living when they are on these boats. Is that true?
Mr. Kunillusie: They do, but they have to leave their community to work somewhere in a foreign factory.
Senator Cochrane: I do not quite understand. They go on these boats and they do the fishing. They cannot spend enough time on the water to provide a full living for the family. Is that what you are saying?
Mr. Kunillusie: They can provide enough food, but they only go out for something like two months a year. They do turbot fishing on the big boats two months a year. In two months, they do provide but for the rest of the year, they do not provide.
The Chairman: I know it gets complicated. This is the advantage of having witnesses who know what they are saying to be able to inform us. That is the marvellous part of having witnesses coming into Ottawa. It is helpful what you are saying so far.
Senator Adams: I should like to show the committee a map to give you an idea of the area. From here right up to Grise Fiord, I think the 0A was up to right about here; and the 0B used to come around right up to Hudson Strait. Can you see how big the area of water is?
Senator Mahovlich: Is that Greenland up there?
Senator Adams: No, here is the border.
Senator Cook: Thank you for a very informative position on where you live and where you want to work and add employment for your people. We all know the North is a harsh, unforgiving environment; it is not easy for people to make a living there.
I am hearing a number of things, so help me to understand. Your communities want to become viable and self- supporting. There is a resource there that you can access for your people to earn a good living, but some things need to happen before that occurs.
One of the things is the problem with quotas, to have access to the fish. The other one I hear is infrastructure — your boats need repairs, your harbours need infrastructure, such as wharves and whatever. How difficult is it to put infrastructure in your community, such as wharves to tie your boats up to? The ice comes in for how many months of the year? How do you manage that?
Mr. Aipellee: There has been talk of a breakwater going to the community of Clyde. However, every year it seems that there has to be an environmental study, and then another one, and it keeps being delayed.
Senator Cook: Regarding the federal program — small craft harbours — if you could access that, that would be helpful for you. However, so far, you have not been able to access that kind of funding.
Furthermore, I understand the distance to get your fish to market, but do you have the infrastructure to prepare your fish for market and get it there — such as fish plants and the like?
Mr. Aipellee: In my presentation, I mentioned the freezer and the lack of infrastructure.
Senator Cook: Yes, I am reading it here. You are talking about the testing protocol for clams. You cannot decide who should pay, whether it is the federal government or the people who are engaged in the fishery.
I am hearing that there is a lack of funding to prepare yourself with boats, with a proper harbour, and with plants to prepare your fish and get it to market. I understand that for each ton of turbot caught, there is a royalty of $500 that goes to the Nunavut government. Can the fishermen — the people of Nunavut — access that money to buy and repair boats, or build fish plants or whatever it is you require?
Mr. Aipellee: What royalties do we receive? The Clyde River HTO is roughly $17,000 a year. We get core funding from the Nunavut government to run our office; we get $64,000 a year to run an office and to pay the salary of a manager. It seems like there is definitely a lack of funding in our parts. Definitely, that is a problem too.
Senator Cook: How many tons of turbot would be caught in Nunavut waters in the run of a year?
Mr. Kunillusie: I think it is 1,500 tons in the 0B, and 4,000 tons in the 0A.
Senator Cook: I am trying to understand what your needs are, and how this committee can put that agenda forward. It seems the problem is the way the quotas are administered in Nunavut. There seem to be insufficient quotas for the people of Nunavut, and a lack of infrastructure for them to pursue the fishery — that is for small craft harbours and for access to purchase boats to fish on.
Mr. Kunillusie: We use the royalty money to pay for the operation of our Nattivak Hunters and Trappers Organization — that helps a lot. We use the 0B money to operate the two small boats that we have in our community.
Senator Cook: Is there some help from the Nunavut government to help you engage in a fishery? Perhaps Senator Watt can explain it to me.
The Chairman: It is better to get it from the witness.
Mr. Aipellee: The $500-per-ton royalty goes to the Baffin Fisheries Coalition, not to the community. I was referring to the 0B royalty that we get.
Senator Cook: Are you saying that the royalties go to the BFC and not to the people? My understanding is that it goes into a fund. You say that it goes to the Baffin Fisheries Coalition. Why would it go to a coalition? Are you all members of the coalition?
Mr. Kunillusie: I think there are six communities that make up the Baffin Fisheries Coalition. The office is in Iqaluit. The community does not see the royalty money from the BFC.
Senator Cook: Is your community one of those communities?
Mr. Kunillusie: Yes, it is one of those communities. We are part of the BFC.
Senator Cook: Are all the fishing communities in Nunavut part of the coalition? Is the coalition 100 per cent of all the villages, or the communities? Is there anyone not in the coalition?
Mr. Aipellee: No.
Senator Cook: No? So the royalties are rolled out through the Baffin Fisheries Coalition to the people, is that correct?
Mr. Aipellee: The Baffin Fisheries Coalition has a long-term plan of buying a ship and hiring Inuit — not just as fishermen, but also as a captain and so forth on the ship.
Senator Cook: You would like to see more quotas for your communities; and for the community to fish it, to become self-supporting.
Mr. Aipellee: Yes.
Senator Cook: To do that, you need help. You need help in getting a higher quota for your community, and for infrastructure to help you — like in the case of your clams.
Mr. Aipellee: Yes.
Senator Cook: There are barriers to adequate clam fishery.
Mr. Aipellee: Yes, clams are more in Qikiqtarjuaq. We do not have much access to clams in Clyde River.
Senator Cook: You are from Clyde River?
Mr. Aipellee: Yes.
The Chairman: Thank you Senator Cook. You followed a very interesting line of questioning there. If I do not get the opportunity to pursue that line later, I may want to speak later with the witnesses. There are telephones available. I will certainly want to be pursuing that very same line later.
Senator Phalen: Who is the wildlife management board?
Mr. Kunillusie: The Nunavut Wildlife Management Board, NWMB, is part of the Nunavut government.
Senator Phalen: What happens? Does DFO give the quota to the Nunavut Wildlife Management Board and it in turn gives the quota to the Baffin Fisheries Coalition? Is that how it works?
Mr. Aipellee: Actually, the Nunavut Wildlife Management Board goes to the community. The Baffin Fisheries Coalition asks for support in obtaining the 0A quota for our community.
Senator Phalen: You do not seem to be getting any benefit from the Baffin Fisheries Coalition?
Mr. Aipellee: No, we will not see any benefits for at least 20 years.
Senator Phalen: If you were looking for a quota, the quota then would have to come directly from DFO. Is that correct?
Mr. Aipellee: If we are looking for quota, we will apply to the Nunavut Wildlife Management Board.
Senator Hubley: I would like to get a sense of your community. Do you live in Clyde River?
Mr. Aipellee: Yes, I was born there.
Senator Hubley: What would be the population of Clyde River?
Mr. Aipellee: Approximately 820.
Senator Hubley: Half of the population is under the age of 15?
Mr. Aipellee: Yes, we are a very young community.
Senator Hubley: Would that be generally true throughout the other communities as well? Generally, these are young communities?
Mr. Aipellee: Yes.
Senator Hubley: Is fishing your main source of income in your community?
[Interpretation]
Mr. Aipellee: Arctic char fishing is something that we have done before. When the Nunavut government was formed and decentralization occurred, Clyde River was not affected much and there was not a lot of employment given to the community.
Many people in the community seek self-employment. We do not get a great deal of assistance from the government in getting employment. The low employment rate is a big issue in our community.
[English]
Senator Hubley: I have a question for Mr. Kunillusie. The Nunavut area has one and a half of the 17 core shrimp licences, and that represents 19 per cent. Who gets the rest of it? What other provinces or countries?
Mr. Kunillusie: Outside of Nunavut gets the rest. Newfoundland and Nova Scotia gets some of it.
Senator Hubley: Do you ever sell your quota?
Mr. Kunillusie: We do not sell it. A company from Nova Scotia fishes it, and we get royalty money in return.
Senator Hubley: You get royalty money. Does it provide some employment? When you give your quota to another company, do your fishers fish on those boats as well?
Mr. Kunillusie: Yes, maybe five to 10 people. They are involved in fishing those 330 tons. It creates work for five to 10 fishermen in my community.
The Chairman: I have one quick question for Mr. Aipellee. You now have a 45-ton turbot quota in 0B, if I understand correctly.
Mr. Aipellee: Yes.
The Chairman: However, you would prefer to be able to fish your quota in 0A because it is adjacent to you. You would be able to fish it rather than sell off the 45 tons because it is not near to you. Therefore, it is not practical to fish because of the distance.
If I understand correctly, you would prefer to get this 0A quota and be able to fish it with a smaller vessel rather than waiting 20 years for the funding of a much larger vessel in 0A. I just want to confirm if that is correct.
Mr. Aipellee: Yes, that is correct.
The Chairman: Undoubtedly, a bigger vessel does not does not necessarily translate into a better fishery.
Mr. Aipellee: The main thing is people have to go out for two months at a time on the big boats.
The Chairman: You want to be close to home.
Mr. Aipellee: Yes. More people can fish with smaller boats.
The Chairman: Tell me what size vessel we are talking about. Would we be talking about a 45-foot vessel or a 60- foot vessel?
Mr. Aipellee: Forty-five foot.
The Chairman: How far out at sea would you go with your 45-foot vessel?
Mr. Aipellee: We would go about 12 miles.
The Chairman: If you were allowed to go in 0A, how far would you go?
Mr. Aipellee: If we were to fish in 0A, we would go 60 miles north and 10 miles offshore from our community to fish turbot.
The Chairman: Is that quite safe on a 45-foot vessel?
Mr. Aipellee: Yes.
The Chairman: I am quite sympathetic to a smaller boat fishery. It is easier to tie up if the quotas are problematic. The investment is not as great as it would be for a large vessel that needs to process a great deal of fish in order to pay the expenses. Smaller vessels tend to be much more community-friendly and easier to tie up than a 150-footer. I am quite sympathetic to your suggestion but I simply cannot understand.
Have you asked the question of the appropriate authority in respect of an exchange of quota such that you would exchange your 0B quota for a 0A quota?
Mr. Aipellee: No, we have not.
The Chairman: I wonder what the response would be if you were to ask the question, whether there might not be some sympathy. The 0A is now an experimental area for quotas. Have you any idea why they call it experimental?
Mr. Aipellee: There has not been any fishery testing until this past spring when six people came up to catch turbot and measure their size. That is happening in our waters now near Clyde River.
The Chairman: Thank you.
Senator Mahovlich: I want to thank you gentlemen for your presentation. You mentioned the population of your village. Has that population increased over the last 20 years? What was the population 20 years ago?
Mr. Aipellee: Twenty years ago, the population in Clyde River was about 20 per cent less than it is today.
Senator Mahovlich: I see.
Mr. Aipellee: It may have increased as much as 30 per cent over twenty years.
Senator Mahovlich: The population is increasing?
Mr. Aipellee: Yes it is but very slowly.
Senator Mahovlich: There are fewer jobs.
Mr. Aipellee: Yes.
Senator Mahovlich: I see. The number of months that you can work there is limited. Do you hunt when you cannot fish? In the winter, do you hunt polar bears?
Mr. Aipellee: We mainly hunt seal.
Senator Mahovlich: You fish for six months and then hunt for six months?
Mr. Aipellee: Yes. Even in the wintertime, we people fish for turbot.
Senator Mahovlich: You fish through the ice in the wintertime?
Mr. Aipellee: Yes.
Senator Mahovlich: Thank you, that is interesting.
Senator Trenholme Counsell: This is a marvellously interesting opportunity to learn and I thank you. It is wonderful to have you here and to learn about your communities, your industry and your hopes.
I was waiting to hear you mention Arctic char. It was not in the short text that I read. To what extent do your people contribute to the provision of the Arctic char that we enjoy so much in this part of Canada?
Second, I want to ask you about halibut. In one paragraph, you mention halibut, which is a great favourite of so many. Is it your hope to fish on Greenland waters to enjoy some of that harvest?
Mr. Aipellee: We cannot go far with a 45-footer. Perhaps in the future we could fish Greenland when the Baffin Fisheries Coalition buys a 65-foot fishing boat, which is their plan. We could start fishing Greenland waters then.
Senator Trenholme Counsell: What is your role in the harvesting of Arctic char?
Mr. Aipellee: Mainly, I go in the springtime because my work is in an office. Fishing for Artic char is from November until April.
Senator Trenholme Counsell: The Arctic char is caught during the winter months.
Mr. Aipellee: Yes.
Senator Trenholme Counsell: Could you explain a little about how you fish through the ice and tell us about the Arctic char industry?
[Interpretation]
Mr. Aipellee: We ice fish with a gill net. Two holes are set and they use fishing net that are set from one hole across to the other hole. The Arctic char is caught in those nets. We also fish by jigging but that becomes difficult to do in the springtime in the lake that we fish. The quota is 5,500 tons and we have asked for an increase each year. We find that the current quota for Arctic char now is too low.
[English]
Senator Trenholme Counsell: Is Arctic char abundant?
Mr. Aipellee: Yes, there is a good population of Arctic char.
Senator Trenholme Counsell: Do you have a plant for processing the char? Is it shipped? How do you do that?
Mr. Aipellee: We ship the char by air and we are paid $1.50 per pound although it costs $4 per pound to ship it out.
Senator Trenholme Counsell: Is that per pound?
Mr. Aipellee: It is $4 or $5 per kilogram to ship it out by air.
Senator Trenholme Counsell: That means you have $1.50 left, or nothing left.
The Chairman: Thank you very much.
[Interpretation]
Mr. Kunillusie: I would like to make a comment on the Arctic char, please. We do have many fish — there is an abundance of char in our area but there is not a large market for it right now. There are two main places in our area that have a great deal of Arctic char but not many buyers. That is why we have problems.
Senator Adams: I would like to go back to the Nunavut Wildlife Management Board and the Baffin Fisheries Coalition. I would like to understand clearly if you have heard about the 4,000 metric tons available in the 0A in your communities. I would also like to know for how many years you will be using the quotas. You have written what you would like to begin with, and the end date for that. Let us use Qikiqtarjuaq, Clyde River and Pond Inlet, for example — the letters that were requested from the Baffin Fisheries Coalition — what did you ask for? I have heard that you asked for three years. Is it three, four or five years that you had requested for your communities?
Mr. Aipellee: In my community, we have not specified to Baffin Fisheries Coalition how many years we want. We have just given support to them in seeking to purchase a vessel; but I do not recall giving an exact number of years from our Hunters and Trappers Association.
Mr. Kunillusie: From the Nattivak group in Qikiqtarjuaq, we are given 330 tons of quota. That quota is given for a number of years. That is an agreement that is made when the years are up. We are given the quota, from the Clearwater and the 0B areas, and it is fixed for seven years. After the seven years, a new agreement is made.
Senator Adams: When I met with the BFC last year they said that they cannot increase and that this had been agreed upon — whether it is five years — and that you need to use that quota within those years. The agreement said that you use 330 tons within the years given. You have said that the two communities do not have a lot of funding available — and need an increased quota.
Mr. Kunillusie: When Qikiqtarjuaq was given a quota in the 0B area, from what I know, that Clyde River and Pond Inlet were given 45 tons. It seems that they received their quota from Qikiqtarjuaq. We should have been able to get the entire quota at that time, but some of it went to these communities. That is how it was set.
Senator Adams: How many years have you been working at your office, Mr. Aipellee?
Mr. Aipellee: I was elected chair of the Namautaq Hunters and Trappers Organization for two years. It will be my second year in December.
Senator Adams: Do you know how the 45-ton quota was set before your office?
Mr. Aipellee: We had an agreement with the Clearwater for 10 years, and the 10 years will be coming up soon.
Senator Adams: In the 10 years, was it set appropriately?
Mr. Aipellee: They set it then; but we will be speaking with them again next year, and we will be meeting with the committee.
Senator Adams: Does the Nunavut Wildlife Management Board fix the agreement, or give you the quota that you ask for? Who works on this issue?
Mr. Aipellee: The Nunavut Wildlife Management Board works on the quota requested. We will be sending requests to the board.
Senator Adams: Are you going to increase your quota, or will it stay the same?
Mr. Aipellee: It would be great if the quota could be increased, as I said earlier. The 4,000 tons that was given is not enough. We need to find more resources.
Senator Adams: Have you heard of the 0A being an experimental area? Has the DFO fixed that quota of 4,000 metric tons that is available in that area?
Mr. Aipellee: I have not heard much about that.
Senator Adams: This is set in Nunavut. This cannot be given to Nunavut. What have you heard?
Mr. Aipellee: I have not heard anything of this. However, I have often thought that we are not pursuing this enough. We do not have the resources. We do want to pursue it, but do not have the resources. I do not know if this has been looked at.
Senator Adams: Have you heard what kind of a vessel you need to use in this area?
Mr. Aipellee: Yes, we have been told about the differences in the lengths of vessels being used for different types of fishing. This information was made available to us, and it was very helpful.
Senator Adams: I just want to be clear about whether you have been made aware of what kind of vessels are useful in the different areas such as the 0A, and what kind of quotas you should be given.
Mr. Aipellee: Yes, we were made aware of these. We received a visit — I think it was last year — giving us explanations on this.
[English]
The Chairman: On behalf of the members of this committee, I would like to express our appreciation for your having come all this distance to help us understand more of the challenges that you face in your area and for being so open in your dialogue with us this evening. Please give our best to your folks in your communities when you get back home. Thank you very much.
The committee adjourned.