Proceedings of the Subcommittee on Veterans Affairs
Issue 8 - Evidence
OTTAWA, Wednesday, June 18, 2003
The Subcommittee on Veterans Affairs of the Standing Senate Committee on National Security and Defence, to which was referred Bill C-411, to establish Merchant Navy Veterans Day, met this day at 12:15 p.m. to give consideration to the bill.
Senator Michael A. Meighen (Chairman) in the Chair.
[English]
The Chairman: I call the meeting to order. We will hear from Mr. Paul Bonwick, sponsor of the bill in the other place.
Mr. Bonwick, you are our only witness today, and we are pleased to have you speak to Bill C-411. Please proceed.
Mr. Paul Bonwick, M.P. (Simcoe—Grey): I would like to thank both the Senate and this committee for dealing with this bill in such a timely fashion. I speak on behalf of my colleagues in the House and on behalf of the merchant navy veterans across Canada when I voice my sincere appreciation. Special thanks to Senator Day, who was a strong advocate of the bill. I had an opportunity to read the transcripts from yesterday's Senate sitting, and I certainly appreciate that he was able to put forward his name to sponsor this bill.
In short, senators, this bill has been underway in one form or another for approximately five years. It came out of the process whereby merchant navy veterans were after fair, equal treatment with respect to other veterans from the various conflicts in which Canada has participated. I hail from a merchant navy town with over 100 years of shipbuilding history where many families, including my own, sent off individuals in World War II to participate in the merchant navy. We had representations from across this country.
There is no part of Canada that has not been touched by the merchant navy, either geographically or from a municipal standpoint, whether through the loss of a member or through the contribution of a family member. We are literally talking about tens of thousands of people over the last century who have sacrificed, or potentially sacrificed, their lives to help preserve what we enjoy today.
There are two main reasons that I brought this bill forward. First, it establishes a day of remembrance or a day of reflection so that we can say thanks to the members of the merchant navy. As I mentioned in the House of Commons, if it were not for the efforts of these individuals, our political system or perhaps our country would be quite different today. It will come as no surprise to honourable senators that without the supply lines being serviced at extreme risk, we would be unsuccessful in defending that which we hold so dear.
Second, and equally paramount, the bill provides a responsibility for future generations to recognize the efforts and the sacrifices made by these men and women throughout the various conflicts that Canada has participated in over the last one and a half centuries. Within the last year, Great Britain passed, through both the Commons and the House of Lords, a similar bill to establish a merchant navy day as well. Since the adoption of this bill in the House of Commons, we have had calls from Australia and the United States to obtain the details of the bill because of their desire to recognize the men and women who were heroes of their respective countries.
The Senate has recognized the importance of this matter in dealing with the bill in such a timely fashion. I mentioned to some members of the House that to do otherwise would, in my opinion, not serve to honour the sacrifices that were made by the ranks of the merchant navy.
That, in short, deals with the concept behind the bill. As I am sure you are aware, September 3 was the day chosen because on that day in 1939 Canada's first casualty occurred. Ms. Hannah Baird was a merchant navy seaman whose ship went down. She was identified by Veterans Affairs Canada as the first casualty of World War II.
I am not sure how much information you have in respect of the history of the merchant navy and the casualties they experienced, but these people were certainly heroes. It was recognized that the chances of returning home from service at sea with the merchant navy were far lower than when serving with the regular Armed Forces. Those ships were the targets of the enemy during World War I, World War II and the Korean War. They have continued to be targets within our various theatres of conflict in peacekeeping times when we have partnered with the private sector to provide the necessary supplies for the front line. These people who have knowingly accepted terrible odds have made a significant commitment. It is my belief that parliamentarians and all Canadians owe them at least one day of recognition for their service.
Once again, I express my sincere appreciation to the committee and, in particular, the Chairman of the Veterans Affairs Committee and Senator Day.
The Chairman: It is fair to say that among the senators here today we have a reasonable body of knowledge about the role of the merchant navy. In particular, Senator Forrestall, Deputy Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on National Security and Defence, has always been at the forefront of securing adequate compensation for veterans of the merchant navy. All senators have a keen interest in this matter and a keen appreciation for what the merchant navy has meant to Canada, particularly in wartime.
Senator Forrestall: Mr. Bonwick, I want to join with those who have expressed their appreciation for you having taken the initiative in the House to bring this historic and commendable piece of work forward. You will be aware, of course, that we have, on the shores of the Atlantic Ocean in the Port of Halifax, a national memorial in recognition of the Battle of the Atlantic.
I wanted to join in your effort, the efforts of companies of master mariners and countless others who fought so hard over the last 40 or 50 years, to have merchant seamen included in the June ceremonies at Point Pleasant Park in Halifax.
That has been accomplished and this bill would round out that recognition so long overdue, so meritoriously earned. I hope through the generations to come that Canadians never again have to make the sacrifice that prompts us to be together today to recognize them.
To that end, I commend you; I commend governments, previous governments included, in their efforts to finally find justice for the men and women who served in Canada's merchant navy. Proudly, I am one of those.
Senator Day: I hope Senator Forrestall will give that same information to the Senate today. If we report the bill back without amendments, it is non-debatable, but it would be nice if you could.
Senator Forrestall: I am a modest man, but thank you.
Senator Day: Mr. Bonwick, in your research, did you ever learn where Hannah Baird was from?
Mr. Bonwick: I will have to get back to you with that information. All we have been provided from Veterans Affairs is that she was in fact a Canadian citizen.
Senator Day: I have that information. It is interesting to know what part of the country she was from, but that is not critical. I am sure she was from Saint John, New Brunswick.
Senator Wiebe: I think it was Saskatoon, Saskatchewan.
Senator Day: Undoubtedly.
Senator Banks: This is a wonderful and long overdue bill. Friends of our family, and I remember the occasions well, were lost in the merchant marine during World War II. This bill is overdue, cogent and wonderful. What I have to say is merely a comment, not a question, and I am not going to do anything about it.
Since this is a committee of the Senate of Canada, considering how to pronounce on a bill, I note that the bill says, in the second paragraph of the preamble, "AND WHEREAS the House of Commons wishes to set aside a day to acknowledge..." I will not bother with this because it will have the same effect, but I would rather that the wording referred to the Parliament of Canada. That is merely a parenthetical comment for future reference. I join with my colleagues in commending you on a very worthwhile and valuable recognition.
Mr. Bonwick: Senator, you have pointed out something that was clearly an error on my part, an oversight. I know that when I spoke with members of the Senate as well as members of the House, there are people in Canada who appreciate the sacrifice on a day-to-day basis that these men and women made and the fact that we enjoy active participation and democracy due to that. Your point is well taken. I would only submit to the committee that I understand any amendments create debate. I am wondering if the Senate were to seek unanimous consent to simply make the change, if that would eliminate that very need? I throw that out as a procedural question because Senator Banks has raised a legitimate issue. I should have had the words "Parliament of Canada" in the bill rather than "the House of Commons."
Senator Banks: I am not proposing and I know that no members of this committee would propose or agree to an amendment at this time. We want to pass this bill so it has effect now, particularly before September 3. We do not want to take a chance on any procedural mess-up. I was merely making a comment, not a criticism, and I do not think anyone here would be in favour of and I am not in favour of an amendment.
Senator Wiebe: The problem is not so much what will take place in the Senate, but if we amend this bill, it must be sent back to the House of Commons, which means that the bill will not come into effect until later on this fall.
Senator Banks: None of us wants that.
Senator Wiebe: We should pass the bill as presented, and if members of the House of Commons feel so moved in the fall, they can always make an amendment to the current bill.
Mr. Bonwick: I would be happy, in fact honoured, to do that very thing this fall.
The Chairman: The fall promises to be an interesting time, so perhaps you could add that to the pot and see what comes up.
Mr. Bonwick: I would be remiss if I did not speak to a topic that is clearly non-partisan in nature. When it was originally brought forward by myself in 1998, I had both the Right Honourable Joseph Clark stand up as well as other members of the opposition. I should make mention of the fact that Ms. Elsie Wayne has been in touch with my office on numerous occasions. Peter Stoffer, a member of Parliament for the New Democratic Party, was the seconder, and a very proud one I might add.
This bill has clearly been a non-partisan effort. I want to thank all my colleagues in the House and in the Senate for this non-partisan approach to recognizing some of Canada's heroes.
The Chairman: As you will have heard, we feel very much the same way.
Senator Day: The good news is you have in the third "WHEREAS" clause the words "...by and with the advice and consent of the Senate..."
The Chairman: If there are no further questions from Mr. Bonwick, we appreciate the time you took today. We reiterate our congratulations for your initiative. We hope that we will be able to move this bill along as quickly as you were able to in the Commons.
Is it agreed that the committee proceed to clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C-411?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Is it agreed that the preamble stand postponed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Is it agreed that clause 1, which contains the short title, stand postponed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Shall clause 2 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Shall clause 1, which contains the short title, carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Shall the preamble carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Shall the bill carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Is it agreed that the bill be reported to the main committee with the recommendation that it be reported to the Senate without amendment?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The subcommittee adjourned.