Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Transport and Communications
Issue 9 - Evidence
OTTAWA, Tuesday, May 4, 2004
The Standing Senate Committee on Transport and Communications met this day at 9:35 a.m. to examine the current state of Canadian media industries; emerging trends and developments in these industries; the media's role, rights, and responsibilities in Canadian society; and current and appropriate future policies relating thereto.
Senator Joan Fraser (Chairman) in the Chair.
[English]
The Chairman: Honourable senators, welcome again to the Standing Senate Committee on Transport and Communications.
We resume our study of the Canadian news media and the appropriate role of public policy in helping to ensure that the news media remain healthy, independent and diverse in light of the tremendous changes that have occurred in the recent years, notably, globalization, technological change, convergence and increased concentration of ownership.
[Translation]
It is a pleasure to welcome the representatives of the Association de la presse francophone.
The association was founded in 1976 with the mandate of promoting the existence and vitality of a French-language community press throughout the country.
Our witnesses today are Francis Potié, Director General of the association and Annick Schulz, Director of Communications and Government Relations.
Welcome to the committee. You have been told how we work. You have 15 minutes for your introductory remarks. We will then go to questions and discussion.
So it is a great pleasure to have you here and without further ado you have the floor.
Mr. Francis Potié, Director General, Association de la presse francophone: Thank you for giving us this opportunity to tell you about francophone press networks.
I will not read out my presentation but I will give you a brief overview of the main points.
The APF represents 30 newspapers in nine provinces and two territories. Quebec does not have any francophone minority press and Nunavut still does not have a French-language community newspaper.
The cumulative circulation is 180,000 copies. This is not a negligible number when you consider the French- speaking population of Canada.
First, I will address the matter of distribution. There are two kinds of distribution: free and through subscription. In eastern Ontario, northern Ontario and New Brunswick, you mainly have free distribution. That seems to be the standard for weekly newspapers everywhere and especially in Quebec.
In Saskatchewan, Alberta and British Columbia it is more difficult to implement that because the population is widespread and francophone population percentages are low. In those cases, distribution goes through subscriptions. In some cases, we are still looking for new distribution initiatives that will ensure a deeper penetration of the francophone market in order to reach the greatest possible number of people.
The APF supports its newspapers using a system for certifying circulation. This serves to provide greater credibility for the network. To that effect, the majority of the newspapers have certified circulation. This helps increase the commercial value of those newspapers especially where the major national advertising agencies are concerned.
The Canadian Heritage publication assistance program subsidizes the distribution cost of subscription newspapers. At this time, some ten APF-member newspapers are eligible for this program. The effect of this program is to reduce their distribution costs. Some 80 per cent of the cost is absorbed by the publication assistance program. So the impact is not negligible on the budget of a weekly or bi-monthly newspaper.
The publication problem in the more difficult markets is found mainly in the Yukon, the Northwest Territories and a few other places. Publications in those areas are ineligible for the program based on the present criteria.
We have raised this point with Heritage Canada. For that group of publications, the program should take into account the reality of the minority press specific to those areas. However, the criteria were re-examined and only one extra newspaper was granted eligibility to be supported by the program. Sad to say, the most fragile publications are not eligible. We are working on it.
When you say newspapers, you say advertising. From that point of view, our newspapers are no different from the others. The great majority of their income is derived from advertising.
Over the years, the APF has worked hard on the national advertising issue. As far as our newspapers are concerned, one of the new factors we invested a lot of our energy in is the federal government's commitment to respect the Official Languages Act in the area of advertising. When you communicate in English, you communicate in French and vice- versa. That represents a considerable contribution for our network. The federal government's contribution is even more important in those provinces where there are only one or two publications for a small francophone population.
This support is even more significant for low-circulation publications. The market is such that the private advertisers, the car companies, the Tim Hortons and McDonalds of this world look at circulation figures and stay away from low-circulation publications. However, in some areas of Ontario and New Brunswick, we have noticed interesting progress for those low-circulation newspapers with private national agency contracts. For national advertizing, we seek support from section 30 of the Official Languages Act.
Our newspapers are presently going through a crisis and an emergency situation brought on by the federal government's moratorium on advertising. This disproportionately affects the most fragile newspapers. Saskatchewan, Alberta, the Northwest Territories and Newfoundland are areas where the disappearance of a single newspaper means the disappearance of the entire francophone press. In terms of short-term cash requirements, we are talking about a rather abrupt stoppage of a major income source for those newspapers.
Another worrisome fact is that they're remaking the federal advertising management model. As such, that is not a bad thing. It is, of course, up to the government to make those decisions. Nevertheless, any change needs an adjustment period during which publications could face rather considerable losses of potential earnings.
There are all kinds of situations. Some newspapers in northern and eastern Ontario and New Brunswick have a very interesting regional market they can develop. Other newspapers are dealing with a regional market with a more limited potential. So they have to count more on the institutional market represented by the francophone associations and community groups.
Another initiative undertaken by the APF over the last six months is to encourage the provincial and territorial governments to adopt a policy to communicate in French. This will be interesting if it works. For example, Ontario's Bill 8 makes a commitment to treat the francophone media fairly. We are talking about some 20 bilingual francophone publications besides a daily. Such a policy makes a great contribution to the vitality of the francophone press. We are working on that initiative.
It is up to the provincial governments to make such a commitment. We hope the federal government will exercise some influence when comes the time to renew federal-provincial agreements. The provincial offices of francophone affairs receive 50 per cent of their funding from Heritage Canada. During negotiations, the federal government might suggest areas that it wishes to support within the context of those agreements.
If I am not mistaken, those agreements will shortly be up for renewal. So we are counting on that support to strengthen our newspapers especially in those provinces where they must face greater challenges.
The information in those newspapers is focused on regional markets and the interests of the reader. However, there is no national francophone press distributed in every region. We should be able to offer media coverage that is not only regional.
The wider the geographic area a newspaper covers — in the case of provincial newspapers, for example — the more mandates there are in terms of publishing. Thus, the Association de la presse francophone, for a number of years has been offering a national news service covering the activities on Parliament Hill as well as national francophone current events. That service is the only one the French-speaking public has available to access that information on a regular basis. However, it does not eliminate the importance of the francophone press at the national level. It is a matter of markets and that kind of press will not be seeing the light of day tomorrow morning.
As far as services go, the APF, in order to promote the quality of its newspapers organizes an annual competition for awards of excellence. This allows the newspapers to promote themselves for their readership.
The changing of the guard in journalism as in other areas represents a major challenge for the weekly francophone press. People are often introduced to the labour market through the weeklies and in many cases they do not stay very long. So there is a lot of staff turnover.
The APF is trying to support a certain number of training programs. However that is rather expensive to do all across Canada.
At present, we are on the web. Our Web site, of which we are quite proud, gives news about all our members. Many consult this Web site. However, the challenge is still there. The website has not been profitable yet, but we are working at it.
One of the questions you are interested in is the concentration of newspaper ownership which is rather a recent phenomenon in our network. For a long time, the major press networks were not really interested in buying minority francophone newspapers. That is changing.
At this point, in our network we have a newspaper belonging to the Transcontinental group, another to Quebecor and another to Oxford. Our network includes a regular member and two probationary members from the Brunswick News group belonging to the Irving group. Moreover, unless I am mistaken, Irving has set up two more francophone publications in New Brunswick.
That has not really affected the workings of the APF whose members are active and interested. If there is a difference, it is in the area of the freedom of the editors who must follow rather clear parameters concerning what they may and may not do, whereas for the other publishers there can be a bit more improvisation concerning the projects they will accept to take on.
Today, all across Canada, we are witnessing change in our communities. The new arrivals from just about every corner of the world are being integrated into our communities. There are more and more anglophones learning French. That is a challenge the weekly press will have to meet in order to draw those new readers. It is not always clear: for example, for those anglophones who have learned French, many attempts have been made in immersion schools and others to turn them into faithful readers, but that approach is not always successful. It is a challenge we must meet. To this end, we are going to undertake a study or some polling in order to better identify the needs and interests of those people and develop different strategies for our network.
We are trying to develop a closer relationship with the Association des hebdomadaires du Québec, especially for joint training. The networks are certainly different; in ours, half of our members are non-profit organizations whereas the Quebec weeklies belong to major press groups. There is a rather marked cultural difference but we are trying to get closer to them to avail ourselves of a most interesting expertise.
The francophone press is the reflection of the communities in which they work. In general, I believe the francophone press has been showing growing vitality and diversity. There are now some communities where two or three newspapers are being published. Even though that is not always appreciated by the publishers, this competition is certainly good for the readers. I think it is the reflection of a certain degree of maturity in our communities who have had the benefit of greater support, over the years, from the federal government as well as greater recognition for rights, greater institutionalization of services — we are talking about school boards — greater recognition from the provincial governments and more services being offered so that the francophone newspapers are garnering more support from their regional markets, the provincial governments, the federal government and national advertisers.
Generally speaking, the francophone press is in good health at this time. The Official Languages Act and the implementation of section 30 are vested rights that the association must keep. These vested rights have been the basis that has allowed the francophone press to flourish.
I firmly believe our initiative with the provincial governments will lead to further progress in developing our network if we manage to get it implemented. I believe the government has a rather important role to play in the Canada-provinces agreements because section 43 of the Official Languages Act asks the government to be concerned with provincial and municipal governments.
Today's great challenge is the liquidity crisis brought about by the moratorium on advertising. We are very worried that some newspapers will not survive because there is talk of a moratorium probably followed by an election and if that happens there will be approximately a six-month period during which these newspapers will be deprived of a very major source of revenue. These are newspapers that already do not have much leeway. We have lobbied our elected representatives about this and we still have not found a solution to the problem.
[English]
Senator Phalen: You touched on some of my questions, but to explain them a bit more in detail, on the subject of the Canadian Heritage Publications Assistance Program, you stated that some member newspapers of the APF do not always qualify and are excluded from the source of funding that is quite essential for the development of their businesses. Can you explain to this committee why these publications do not qualify for assistance and what, if any, changes are needed to the publication assistance program to ensure that the francophone press receives the necessary assistance?
[Translation]
Mr. Potié: I do not have the policy at hand, however if memory serves there are basic criteria. Our newspapers fall into the new category of ethno-cultural periodicals and publications and the threshold of the real subscription percentage has been established at 50 per cent. If I use the francophone newspaper in the Yukon as an example, you have paid subscriptions and subscriptions through the schools. Because of that the newspaper falls under the 50 per cent level to about 40 or 45 per cent; it is ineligible and I believe it is the same thing in the Northwest Territories. That constitutes a dilemma for those newspapers because they have a community mandate to publish anything having to do with francophone current events and that is an interesting means of distribution. However, in so doing, they make themselves ineligible for the publications aid program. Before the reform, there was a frequency problem that was settled: before, you had to publish at least 48 editions a year and we had some bi-monthly newspapers; that problem was settled. We asked that the acceptable percentage of paid subscriptions be reduced but it was not.
[English]
Senator Phalen: You brought to our attention that one of the challenges facing your members is finding and retaining top-notch staff. In testimony before this testimony, Mme. Bombardier said that at present this there is a lack of general education among journalists.
When you say your members are challenged in finding top-notch journalists, is the quality of the education of the journalists part of the problem, in your opinion?
[Translation]
Mr. Potié: Anecdotally, some publishers point out that they do not know how to write. The farther you go from Quebec, the greater the challenge because the youngsters coming from minority francophone communities often do not have the language skills. When they do have them, which is rather rare, they become quite the rare find and are recruited by Société Radio-Canada. Everyone wants to have journalists who know the community where they work because it brings them closer to their community and allows them to do better work. We want young people from our communities for our newspapers. Manitoba's francophone newspaper wants a certain number of journalists from Manitoba. It is a challenge.
Our industry does not pay large salaries. When you have a good journalist, you have trouble keeping him because as soon as he has proven himself he is recruited by the competition, either radio, television or another publisher. There are enough training programs. The problem is that the weekly press is often not a long-term career dream for young journalists. It is more like an entry level.
The Chairman: That is the fate of all community newspapers whether published in a minority language or not. Maybe your problem has more to do with supply than demand. In any given province, whether Manitoba, Saskatchewan or Newfoundland, the supply of young French-language journalists does not meet the demand.
Are there any bursaries to attract more young people to the study of journalism?
Mr. Potié: The members of the APF, some 20 years ago, set up a foundation to give bursaries to young people in our communities so that they could pursue their studies in communication. You know, it takes a while before a fund can have a major impact. Every year, we hand out some 10 $1,000 bursaries for studies in communication.
Our communities' demographics contribute to that problem. The challenge is not as great in Hawkesbury as it is in Saskatchewan or British Columbia. We have to recruit in Quebec. These are young people far from their homes, they get homesick and they want to go back to their own province. That is normal. There is a problem with isolation which means that the acquired skills do not stay in the community and therefore do not continue to benefit that community. We welcome the people, we train them and then we lose the resource. That has an impact on the whole community over the long-term.
Senator Corbin: Are there any French-language weeklies in the country that do not belong to your association?
Mr. Potié: Yes.
Senator Corbin: Where are they?
Mr. Potié: There is Toronto's L'Express that used to belong to our association but does not belong to it anymore for reasons I ignore. That is part of the association's history.
Senator Corbin: Is it a big copy run?
Mr. Potié: Yes, rather major, some 20 to 30,000 copies. It is a widely distributed newspaper. We have a member weekly in Toronto, but it is not L'Express.
In New Brunswick, L'Étoile in Kent and L'Étoile in the south-east have just requested to become members. We are taking them on trial. That is the procedure. That is how we start and, after a while, you can become an ordinary member.
Senator Corbin: To be more specific, we are talking about L'Étoile de Kent et du Sud-Est?
Mr. Potié: Yes.
Senator Corbin: So is that one or two weeklies?
Mr. Potié: Two newspapers. Before there was one newspaper but they have just split. L'Étoile de Kent is located in Kent county and the other one covers the area of Shediac, Cap Pelé, Moncton and so on.
There is a brand new paper in Edmundston put out by Irving that is called La République. We presume that one day it will put in a request to become a member of the association.
Senator Corbin: In Edmundston, Irving bought Le Madawaska.
Mr. Potié: Yes, and they launched another newspaper.
Senator Corbin: Free distribution or through subscription?
Mr. Potié: I think it is a free distribution. Le Madawaska is published on Wednesdays and Info Week-End, its competitor, is published on the weekend. They have launched a new newspaper, La République which is also published on weekends.
Senator Corbin: I will correct you. Le Madawaska has announced that it would be appearing Tuesdays from now on, not Wednesdays any more. That is quite recent.
Mr. Potié: Fine. There is La Cataracte in Grand-Sault.
Senator Corbin: That is a bilingual newspaper?
Mr. Potié: We do not accept bilingual newspapers.
Senator Corbin: Not at all?
Mr. Potié: We thought about this several times. Our members' latest orders state that we remain an association of francophone newspapers.
We changed our rules recently to welcome newspapers publishing at a lesser frequency. In some communities like Kingston and Calgary, there is a little monthly one. Before, those newspapers were not eligible. So this allows a newspaper from Saint John, New Brunswick, to join the association as a probationary member. The member's status will be a bit different. We have noticed that some communities do not have a market that will support a weekly but that we should still find a way of supporting them.
Some communities have no francophone newspaper. It is always a dilemma. The more publications you add, the more competition there is and we do not want to weaken those newspapers that already exist. In northern Ontario, there is no francophone newspaper in Thunder Bay, for example. Many communities have a bilingual paper and that is going to continue to grow.
Senator Corbin: You made a comment that seems to address a basic question. You say that you do not accept bilingual weekly newspapers. Le Madawaska and Le Moniteur acadien, the Shediac newspaper, also belong to Irving, I think.
Mr. Potié: That is Brunswick News.
Senator Corbin: Yes, but we all say Irving. We all know how it works. You do not accept, as a body corporate and member of your association, any bilingual corporation or newspaper. However, for instances, you do accept completely francophone newspapers controlled by anglophone interests. How do you explain that?
Mr. Potié: I will start with the bilingual newspaper. That choice was made many years ago. It remains a valid choice. It depends on the community. If you take very small minority communities, there will be no bilingual newspaper. But the purpose of the choice that was made was to encourage newspapers to be francophone rather than bilingual. We did not want to create a situation where everyone wanted to be bilingual in order to be more profitable. There is nothing wrong with that, as such. The association chose to accept francophone publications to support them. I believe that has an influence on the general struggle against assimilation in our communities. Some publishers have a francophone newspaper and a bilingual one. But only the francophone newspaper is a member of our association.
For the major press groups, we did not have to think very long. Le Madawaska has changed hands; if Le Madawaska was a member, it is not the individual who would be the member but the body corporate. The company publishing Le Madawaska remained a member. The APF works in French; all its correspondence is in French. All decisions are made in French. So we did not even think along those lines. It is a new reality for us. But, to a certain point, the problem is that all of sudden all kinds of people are interested in publishing French-language newspapers. We should not necessarily deplore that.
Senator Corbin: I agree with you as long as minimum standards are set for language and the coverage of current events; in other words they should not cover only fancy skating competitions or moose hunting. They should deal in quality information. I am done with that line of questioning, but I intend coming back to it in the future and with other witnesses.
As far as training goes, I can corroborate what you said. I started my journalistic career with La Cataracte, The Cataract in Grand-Sault — Grand Falls, in New Brunswick, the only bilingual entity in Canada.
I then spent some time at L'Évangéline, a now defunct newspaper. And then I went to work for the CBC in Fredericton when they opened a station. I finally wound up at Le Madawaska newspaper where I stayed for a year and then I went into politics. That is where I have been ever since. But my major problem, as a journalist, was that I was not getting paid enough. I just could not make ends meet. It was not necessarily a question of professional advancement. That also had a role to play, but the weeklies do not pay enough.
How to build up a career? I would have loved staying with my community in New Brunswick. Le Madawaska treated me well. The first years, I can tell you that I regretted entering politics because I was financially better off at Le Madawaska than I was at the House of Commons. No doubt about that. I am saying that to corroborate what you both said. But you have to pay your journalists too, because that is important.
Senator LaPierre: Bilingual newspapers cannot be members of your association?
Would not the French part of the bilingual newspaper benefit from belonging to your association. That part must feel isolated and might lack resources, means of communication, intervention and all kinds of other relations. Would it not be a good idea? Often, in bilingual newspapers, the French or English part — depending — is not quite up to snuff in all areas.
Would it not be possible to look at your rules so that the bilingual portion of those newspapers could enjoy benefits that seem really important when you consider the presence of the French language outside of Quebec?
Mr. Potié: I think so. The reality is that often the bilingual newspaper covers the same territory as a French- language newspaper which is a member of the association. The rules are made by the members and there is some reluctance. There are specific cases where there is some reticence in supporting such or such publication, not to undermine them, but when it is a matter of direct competition with a French-language newspaper already in place.
But things are unfolding. We are part of an association which was reserved for weeklies at the outset. Recently, we have extended our support to newspapers in communities that can only put out monthlies, for example.
There was some question as to whether we wanted to include magazines — there are not very many French- language ones outside of Quebec. The answer from our members, to date, has been no. Same thing goes for the dailies. There are two French-language dailies. Once again, our members' answer was no. It is a matter of perspective.
Although I do not think the members are unanimous, a strong enough number consider that we are an association that should promote the weekly press industry. To a certain extent, we think that we do not have enough in common with magazines and dailies which might become members of our association. They would be wasting their time or ours. I do not know. I think it is a matter of evolution. One day we will extend things, but, for the time being, our members are not ready for it.
[English]
Senator Graham: In response to Senator Corbin's question, you said that a bilingual publication was more profitable than a strictly French language community paper. If that is true, what are the special economic problems faced by French language community papers, as opposed to their English counterparts?
[Translation]
Mr. Potié: This is decreasing. The regional advertiser figures that everybody reads English, francophones included, and that anglophones do not necessarily read French. For example, if I decide to spend $500 in advertising, I will want to reach the greatest number of people possible. So I will put my add in the paper that reaches everybody.
The fact that you are reaching everybody is one of the advantages of a bilingual publication. Another one is that some advertisements are in English and others in French. There is an economic judgment being made and that can be an advantage.
The way the Official Languages Act applies works in favour of the French press because when the time comes to choose between a French-language or a bilingual publication, the provision is clear. You publish the French version in the French-language publication. That provision in the act offers real support to our newspapers.
[English]
Senator Graham: You seemed to suggest, if I recall correctly, that a decision was made a long time ago, perhaps by your predecessors, that perhaps today you do not want the bilingual press as a member of APF. Is that true?
[Translation]
Mr. Potié: Our mission still today, the reason for our existence is to promote the French-language press. We would especially not want our action and our presence to lead a certain number of communities to choose a bilingual rather than a French-language newspaper.
If we could be certain of the presence of a bilingual newspaper as well as a French-language newspaper, then the decision might be different. But I think that our mandate is not to encourage bilingual newspapers at the expense of the French-language ones. We are not against bilingual newspapers, the thing is that we are more favourable to supporting French-language newspapers.
[English]
Senator Graham: I can understand that. It would dilute the message and the basic purpose of the APF and the strictly French newspapers. You have a category of 26 regular members with a total circulation of 180,000 copies. Then you talk about three probationary members.
Mr. Potié: That is a typo. There are four.
Senator Graham: Whether it is four or six, could you explain that?
[Translation]
Mr. Potié: The procedure is part of the association's by-laws. A newspaper cannot become a regular member upon request. Applications are submitted to the board of directors, and applicants are accepted automatically as probationary members. This enables us to ensure that the newspaper is stable over a certain period.
You can be a probationary member of the APF and intend solely to publish a newspaper, though this is not the case at present. We do some assessment to ensure that the newspaper publishes the required minimum of editorial content, that articles are written by journalists covering their communities, and that content is not taken from the Internet.
The probationary period is at least six months. This is to ensure quality content, not to exclude newspapers from the association. Over the years, we have seen many newspapers start up, then shut down.
We do offer two types of services. If there is no objection, we do provide probationary members with full service. The probationary members have access to all the association's services, without having regular member status. This is to be approved by the board of directors at the annual meeting.
[English]
Senator Graham: If you have a minimum probationary period of six months, what is the average probationary period?
[Translation]
Mr. Potié: That is a very good question. The association used to have 24 members, but has many more today. I would say six months after the annual meeting. Generally, we try to deal with applications as quickly as possible. The board of directors can terminate the probationary period, and the whole process must be approved by the board of directors at the annual meeting.
[English]
Senator Graham: Have you ever had more than 26 members?
Mr. Potié: No.
Senator Graham: In respect of distribution, you talk about the fact that some are distributed free, some are sold, and sometimes you combine these approaches. What percentage would be distributed free?
[Translation]
Mr. Potié: That is a very good question. In eastern Ontario and New Brunswick, where we sell the most papers, it is at least 60 per cent. Subscriptions are used primarily in Western Canada, where we have 15,000 copies. In the Atlantic region, about 20,000 copies are paid, while the rest are free. In Ontario, the newspapers are almost all free, except for some, including Le Voyageur in Sudbury and Le Nord in Hearst, which are obtained by paid subscription. In the Toronto region, we have both. There are paid subscription, and newspapers distributed through schools.
In more competitive markets, these publications are free. When one newspaper takes that route, the others are often obliged to follow. If one newspaper sells 5,000 copies and another distributes 15,000 for free, the adds will go to the publication with wider distribution and we have to follow the trend.
[English]
The Chairman: We have other witnesses waiting and other questioners. I will ask a question myself and then I will ask something that we do occasionally when we are very limited in time. I will ask senators to put their questions and ask the witnesses to write us the answers.
[Translation]
Please tell us something about the moratorium on federal advertising, which has created a series of problems for you. I presume we are not talking about all federal government advertising, but just a portion of it. How much money does this represent? On average, what percentage of your members' revenue does it represent? How serious is the financial and human crisis you have indicated?
Mr. Potié: First of all, we are talking about advertising under the aegis of Treasury Board and all departments. Crown corporations and some agencies are excluded.
Quick assessments are always difficult to make. However, for our network, during the moratorium — if we take an average of the past three years — some $210,000 previously went to newspapers.
The Chairman: Before the moratorium?
Mr. Potié: No, during the moratorium. For March, April and May, if I average the figures for the past three years, that amount is approximately $210,000.
As indicated earlier, the impact of the situation is greater on newspapers whose share of revenues in absolute terms come from the federal government, provincial newspapers such as L'eau vive, in Saskatchewan, Le Franco in Alberta and L'Express du Pacifique, for example.
In Ontario, federal revenue is divided up between 20 newspapers. In Saskatchewan, there is only one newspaper. For the newspaper L'eau vive, that translates into somewhere between $10,000 and $12,000 during the time of the moratorium. This is significant cash for the newspaper. All of a sudden, it becomes very difficult for this newspaper to pay for printing and wages.
The situation is even more worrisome because losses will be spread out.
Coincidentally, the moratorium was announced during the most important month, the month of March. Summer is a slow period during which time typically nothing happens. In addition, with the possibility of an election during which time the federal government is prohibited from publishing announcements, these newspapers losses from federal sources over the next six months will amount to 50 per cent of their revenue, and losses in revenue which come from departments will be somewhere between 25 and 30 per cent. These are considerable losses.
Some newspapers, which are running a deficit, are not able to pay their CEO or fill empty positions. Sometimes, newspapers choose not to publish during the summer. The situation threatens the very survival of some of them.
The Chairman: Thank you so very much. Please do not hesitate to add any details that you deem relevant in your written responses, as your remarks are very interesting.
Our witnesses will therefore have to answer Senator LaPierre and Senator Graham's supplementary questions in writing.
Senator LaPierre: What are the differences observed in bilingual newspapers and French-language newspapers, with respect to the quality of French? Would it be possible for you to provide a written comment on that?
The Chairman: We would also like to know if there is a difference in how journalism is practised.
[English]
Senator Graham: In terms of control of the overall organization, in order to be on the so-called governing board of directors, must you have a stake in a member newspaper, or can you bring in outside directors?
[Translation]
Mr. Potié: Do we respond immediately or in writing?
The Chairman: I would ask you to answer in writing. Unfortunately, we have a time limit. Our next witnesses are waiting patiently. We could spend a whole day hearing from witnesses, but that is not possible.
We thank you so very much. Your testimony was very interesting and important.
Mr. Potié: It is we who thank you.
[English]
The Chairman: Our next witness is Mr. Chris Wilson-Smith, from the Canadian University Press, a national, non- profit cooperative news service established in 1938 and owned by more than 60 student newspapers in this country. It is the oldest national student organization in North America and the oldest student news service in the world, which is pretty impressive.
Welcome to the committee, Mr. Wilson-Smith.
Senator Graham: Is it acceptable, at the start, to ask Mr. Wilson-Smith where he is from geographically in Canada and which university he comes from?
The Chairman: Of course it is. Normally we have made a practice of circulating witnesses' CVs. We have fallen down on that this week. We will not fall down again. Perhaps you can start by telling us who you are and where you come from.
Mr. Chris Wilson-Smith, National Bureau Chief, Canadian University Press: Thank you. I started studying for a political science degree at UNB in Fredericton and did a year at York University when I transferred there two years ago. I am actually taking a year off doing this job, which, in the end, is more than a full-time job. I have a few more courses left to finish this year. I hope I will be graduated before the year is through. I am based in Toronto now.
I thank the honourable members of the committee for giving me the chance to come here and express a few thoughts on what it means to be a student journalist in Canada's ever-changing journalist landscape. We are in sort of a unique position because we are trying to hone our craft for our readers but also for ourselves, as some of us look to make a career out of this.
The terms ``student'' and ``journalist'' are both often associated with complaining. When you put those two things together, it is probably no wonder that I am here today with a few things to say. Some of the biggest issues I have seen in student journalism over the past few years all root from the same cause, in my view.
The best way for me to begin would be to explain exactly what we do. Madam Chair has already explained what my organization is. Apart from supporting myself and various publications, as I make my way through university, I am the national bureau chief of the Canadian University Press. That is a fancy way of saying that I coordinate and edit a daily news wire, among our members.
CUP was formed in 1938, when several student editors from across Canada gathered in Winnipeg to discuss issues they faced within their papers and at their universities. They eventually discovered their campuses did not exist in a vacuum and that it made sense to stay in touch through correspondence and content sharing to put their news sections into regional or national context for their readers, and rightly so. What is happening with rival or clashing student groups at York University is mirrored to some extent at Concordia. It is fascinating for their readers to see that it is not just sort of relegated to their campus, it is going on in other universities as well. It is also interesting to readers in New Brunswick or Victoria, because while it is not happening on their campus, it still makes them think: Why is it not?
The Canadian Press was formed largely because editors of Canada's dailies realized they were all interested in getting news on what was happening with the country's troops during the First World War. For the same reason that it made sense for them to band together to improve their coverage, it made sense for student papers to gain a national or regional aspect to their news sections.
CUP is now the oldest national student organization in North America and the oldest student news service in the world. We are a national, non-profit cooperative news service owned by more than 60 papers, and we provide member newspapers with many services, such as the news exchanges, graphics exchange, style guide, newsletters and conferences. These services provide our members with opportunities for skill building and networking with other journalists across Canada.
What makes our organization different from, say, CP is that ours was founded and has traditionally operated with the notion that there is something more to what we are doing other than providing a technical service to our editors.
I have been lucky enough to meet this year with editors from most student newspapers in Canada. It has been a fascinating experience learning all the issues they face within their papers and on their campuses. As far as the student papers go, I have noticed some common threads to the way they see themselves developing as they face a few issues that are present on campuses nationwide.
It is true that that CUP exists largely for the technical services it can offer its members, but it was a sense of community so prevalent among student papers that was once its most important service. Now it is becoming apparent that, for a few reasons, student papers want something else. The intangibles such as networking and sharing ideas are becoming less and less important as the demand for faster coverage and ideas for flashier front pages increases.
You may have noticed if you have visited a campus lately, and I have heard from a few student journalists, that we do not ``stick it to the man'' any more or poke fun at the establishment — whatever that is. To a certain extent, this is true. Our bigger papers, and many of our smaller ones, are trying to look more professional and coverage of federal and student politics seems to take more of a straight-for-the-centre approach.
As you look at this new breed of student newspaper, look beside our racks, and you will see the National Post, and it is free. Suddenly, things start to make sense now. With the increasing presence of mainstream media on campuses nation-wide, student newspapers have some new pressures to consider. The Toronto Star, for example, started a student readership program on York University's campus in 1999. With that daily newspaper resting side by side with every other publication on campus, the Excalibur, working with a meagre budget provided mostly by the university's students, was ultimately forced to compete with a newspaper working with a multi-million dollar budget.
This is unfortunate for a variety of reasons. First and foremost, student newspapers do not have the budget to compete with their corporate counterparts. As well, the competition exists on more than one level. As an example, The Toronto Star looks like it has a lot of money to work with, and because the product is normally priced at 50 cents or a dollar, most students feel when they pick up that paper that they are actually picking up 50 cents or a dollar, with the whole value-added commodity idea.
It is regrettable that many student editors are responding to this new challenge by trying to compete directly with the bigger paper rather than focusing on what they do best. No one knows how to reach a student readership better than a paper run by its peers. These editors do not have much of a choice. Beyond the fact that consumers are more likely to take the bigger paper, whether for its relative flashiness or name brand recognition, advertisers will start doing the same thing.
This year, the National Post announced it plans to expand a readership programming of its own. Through a deal with a marketing company called Clegg, it plans to be present in a big way on over 100 college and university campuses across Canada. With this announcement came a groundswell of protest from editors at many student newspapers. Clegg began the year by contacting students' unions and university administrations to set up racks, sometimes disregarding previously existing agreements between the campus paper and the university.
The fact is that if the National Post appears on every campus in Canada, why would a national advertiser care about a measly old student newspaper? The National Post contends that they are not competing with us. They are, after all, a real paper covering real news. They say campus politics is our only territory. This is incorrect. Canadian Press has a line that goes, ``If it is worth writing, it is worth running on our news wire.'' The best kind of student journalisms reflects this mentality. If it is worth a reader's time in British Columbia, it should be worth the reader's time in Newfoundland.
That all goes to say that student journalists are not just sticking to the campus politics. Our kind of coverage works two ways: We are either reporting on student issues or we are showing students how broader issues, like same-sex marriage and provincial elections, affect them.
Beyond our competing coverage, what will ultimately kill us, if we are forced to stand our papers side-by-side with our million-dollar counterparts, is lack of advertising. Lack of circulation will lose us our national advertising. When we lose that, we will be forced to cut circulation once more. It is at this point that line rates for local advertising go down. In that sense, to argue that the National Post is not competing with us is rather short-sighted.
If our papers are forced to try to do what the National Post does with an annual budget numbering in the millions of dollars, we will not stack up. Yet if we want to keep our advertisers, we will be forced to do all we can to look the part.
I will not argue that the very nature of being a student journalist does not exempt us from the perpetual pursuit of the perfect product. We are very much concerned with the quality of our journalism — from the aesthetics of our front pages to the range of topics covered in our news section. We cannot try to be something we are not. We also do not have much of a choice.
It was a sense of active journalism that was so pervasive among student papers once upon a time that, at least in part, gave rise to come of Canada's greatest thinkers from journalists to politicians — Dalton Camp and Peter Gzowski to name a couple. These were people who challenged the every day perspective on major issues and brought to light other stories that would normally have fallen under the radar screen. Historically, student papers have existed not only for their readers but have also served as a training ground for some of Canada's top scholars and pundits. This is not to say that straight-down-the-middle journalism does not have its merits, but what would our world be like if our best writers became devoid of opinion even before finishing university? If a university-aged Dalton Camp did not write a scathing story of Fredericton's treatment of Black barbers after the Second World War, who would have?
I am not saying less is best. However, I would like to point out the different perspectives that are vital for a healthy democracy. If these readership programs or, as we call it, ``newspaper dumping programs'' continue, the voice of a generation will die. We have to recognize what the real motivation behind these programs is — the National Post raises its paid circulation, despite the fact that students are not paying for them. This means that, in turn, The Post will be in a position to raise its advertising rates. I really do not think anyone would believe that the paper is in any position to give away thousands of free newspapers every day just for the good of those poor students. It is also important to remember that the National Post was already on campuses nation wide, but at 50 cents or a dollar they were not exactly flying off the shelves.
It is also difficult for student journalists nowadays to stick to their guns. It is easy for me to say that student newspapers are best when they write like students for students. It is easy for me to say that news sections should be fun and engaging to student readers, which is to say that stories on the presence of beer companies in residences or which community businesses pay students more per hour, make sense. Ultimately, these stories do not get us jobs.
Daily newspapers want to see that you have experienced the covering of more serious issues. A lot of the time you will not even be considered if you no not have experience working in a daily atmosphere. When we student journalists sit down in a job interview brandishing our stories on the finer points of dating a girl on the cheap, we are not taken seriously. The fact that these stories demonstrate that we know how to reach and engage our readership goes largely unnoticed.
Once more, we find ourselves facing a choice. Either we exist for the mainly solipsistic reason that we want to get jobs or we cater to our readership. Over the next couple of years, I think you will find many papers will opt for the first choice.
Because of these readership programs happening now, it is even a worse time because of the loss of tobacco advertising. In itself, tobacco advertising has always been a hot button topic for student papers, but the truth of it is we lost a giant source of revenue. It is killing our smaller partners. They relied on that advertising. Whether or not they were for or against smoking, that, paired with this, is really catching student journalism at a defining moment in the last decade or so of change.
Regardless of what we do, it has become increasingly difficult for new writers to get jobs in Canada. We are told by proponents of convergence that aligning several newspapers strengthens their news sections by adding consistency and national scope. Besides the fact that this becomes terribly boring for someone who likes to read the Edmonton Journal, Ottawa Citizen and National Post, this creates some problems for us.
It is almost as if content sharing has become the new staff. Wire copy has taken the place of actual writers. The National Post does not need to hire an Alberta bureau chief — it already has the Edmonton Journal.
I do not mean to keep picking on the Post. I do not even mean to go so far as to say that what they are doing is wrong. However, it is true that student journalists have having a tougher time getting jobs since hundreds of Canada's dailies became one giant ``aligned'' news service.
Beyond all the challenges facing student journalists these days, they also have all the problems typically associated with going to school. We always hear about the student who works two part-time jobs just to barely get by with a full course load.
Student journalists are doing this, too, only they are working two jobs and they are writing for free. It is a job that takes up your life. It is something you pour yourself into. For that reason, it is more of a love affair with journalism than a career path. I guess that is why we are still kicking around.
If you have any questions, I would be happy to take them now.
Senator Phalen: Campus Plus, to whom you have provided a link on your Web site, states that 86 per cent of students read their student newspapers. Is that a true figure?
Mr. Wilson-Smith: That was a funny survey because for respondents to know about the survey they would have had to have been reading the student newspapers. However, that is fairly accurate. Interestingly, that survey also demonstrated that most students tend to get their information from their student papers or from the Internet, with daily newspapers ranking a close third, I think. I do not have the stats in front of me.
That is, perhaps, why these readership programs will work so well for the National Post. Fifty cents and free seem like not that drastic a change, when the student just picks it up rather than having to go to the store. I guess, perhaps, that will add up for the student after a while. However, I would say that is fairly accurate. It will change if this keeps going the way it is going.
Senator Phalen: In recent years we have read stories about credit card companies advertising directly to students and subsequent serious student debt problems.
I would like to read to you from an article in the National Post of September 2002. It states:
Jason Zak, a University of Western Ontario student, got a warm welcome from the MasterCard people during orientation week on campus. The company had set up a kiosk and offered students a free CD simply for filling out a credit-card application.
``Since I am not opposed to getting a free CD, I applied. I did not really even expect to get approved for the card,'' said Mr. Zak.
A few weeks later a MasterCard with a $500 spending limit arrived in the mail. During his second year, Mr. Zak filled out another application and graduated to a Visa with a $1,000 spending limit.
The end result of all this is that Mr. Zak ended up with about a $300 a month credit card bill.
Is your organization involved in studying or promoting any type of guidelines for student or student newspapers in respect of this problem?
Mr. Wilson-Smith: We are not political. Thus, we do not have a stand on either side of the issue. That is where we encourage student papers to be writing about things like this. If the student was, perhaps, more educated going into it, and if the student paper was doing a better job covering it, then he might have known what he was getting into. A lot of that has to do also with the sort of relationship with the administration or the student's union, whatever the case is.
Usually, it is student union buildings that welcome in MasterCard, or whomever it may be. Perhaps the onus is on them to stay in touch with the student paper to let them know what is going on. Often, it does not work as it does in a provincial government or something like that. A student newspaper is very often dependent on people coming to them. It is the voice of the student. It is dependent on students letting them know what is going on a lot of the time because student papers often do not have the resources to get out there and cover these things on their own.
Ultimately, whether or not their presence on campus is right or wrong, it is up to the student to decide after being educated enough.
Senator Graham: Welcome, Mr. Wilson-Smith. I have to say a special welcome as a former editor of a student newspaper. I confess to wearing the St. FX ring.
Mr. Wilson-Smith: The Xaverian Weekly?
Senator Graham: Yes, I was editor of that newspaper about 100 years ago.
You were probably associated with a university newspaper?
Mr. Wilson-Smith: Yes. I was the news editor at The Brunswickan a few years ago.
Senator Graham: What is the total circulation in Canada of university papers?
Mr. Wilson-Smith: I do not know if we have that number. Our smallest, as an example, is around 5,000 right now. With 63 student newspapers in CUP, and perhaps 80 or 90 student newspapers as a whole, I think our biggest circulation is at York University, with a circulation of around 30,000. That is huge. That is our largest.
I do not know. I try to stay away from numbers where I can, but if you do the math — is somebody doing the math? — it is hundreds of thousands.
The Chairman: We will do the math.
Senator Graham: As a member of CUP, is there a standard fee, or do you get paid by circulation?
Mr. Wilson-Smith: There are several stages in becoming a member. A prospective member becomes a full member and so on. In the end, members pay 2 per cent of their budget, so it is what they can afford.
Senator Graham: What in your mind is the purpose or the intention of the National Post in providing what obviously will be free subscriptions on all university campuses? Is it to improve their circulation figures, to exercise influence, or to attract permanent readers after they graduate?
Mr. Wilson-Smith: I think it is all three of those things. Clegg Marketing pays for the copies of National Post up front. The National Post has got the money; it is paid for. In turn, Clegg gets to sell advertising space on the racks. The National Post gets to up its paid circulation, which means it can charge more for national advertising. It is quite clear that that is what they are doing.
It probably does attract permanent readers. Once the university student graduates, he or she will start paying for the National Post — it is almost as though they are training future readers, to a point.
It is frustrating because many students will tell you that they love getting it for free every day. However, why can they not pay the 50 cents? Is it really all that much?
Was there another part to your question?
Senator Graham: No, but I am interested in all of the points that I raised in terms of improving their circulation and readership, improving the numbers they present to potential advertisers, and attracting future readers.
The point about influence has a special meaning for me in respect of whether or not they are trying to get into the universities because of their editorial policy. You say it is a combination of all three, but I am wondering about how much weight or influence is there.
Mr. Wilson-Smith: That is an interesting question. I never once mentioned that. I did mention the groundswell of protest from student papers came about from across the country, there were letter-writing campaigns, and articles and opinion pieces written about them. In the University of New Brunswick — as I know anecdotally because I still know the editor there — the editor of that paper wrote a letter to the president of UNB explaining what was going on. The student union had signed a contract with the Post which would be in effect for a year or.
As a result of the editor's interference, David Asper, who was vice-president of marketing at CanWest, took it upon it upon himself to write a letter. His gut reaction was to think that the students had political issues with this. That is far from the truth. I also mentioned in our presentation that different perspectives are vital for healthy democracies.
The issue is not the National Post's politics. I could not care less. If it is The Globe and Mail, I would still have problems with it. It is so easy for Mr. Asper to characterize us as left-wing activists who are not thinking about what we are doing. It is quite the opposite. It comes down to the fact that we are a paper. The largest budget of a student paper in Canada is $250,000 a year. The budget of the National Post is in the millions. We see this as unfair competition.
Whether you agree with that or not, student papers will have an even harder time of it now that they have lost tobacco advertising. That is our problem. People see that they can get the National Post for free; it is stacked, in most cases, directly next to our student newspapers. I am not sure I would take the student paper. The National Post looks nice; it is bigger and it has brand-name recognition.
It does not make sense that this counts as paid circulation. Is that the spirit of it all? I do not know. I guess it is another thing for policy-makers to decide, but it does not make sense to me.
Senator Graham: Have other national papers tried to do this on campus?
Mr. Wilson-Smith: To my knowledge, they have not. The Globe and Mail has readership programs of its own. The paper offers university-age students something like 30 per cent off on subscriptions. That is fine. It has done Internet things as well. I mentioned The Toronto Star. While it is not a national newspaper, it is the largest newspaper in Canada, with a circulation well over that of any other newspaper. The Toronto Star did it at York University in 1999. The editor of that student paper, The Excalibur, since then has seen his circulation drop substantially. That newspaper is having a rough go at it right now.
Senator Corbin: How long have you been at this job?
Mr. Wilson-Smith: We are a member-driven organization that elects its national office staff on a yearly basis at its national conference. The president and I were elected last January. It runs with the school year. I will be finished this job in the next few days and am blissfully off to my backyard to do nothing for several weeks.
I have been at this particular job for a year. Student journalism years seem to work more like dog years: three years become 21. I am a veteran compared to most people.
Senator Corbin: What do you do in real life?
Mr. Wilson-Smith: Are you asking what a typical day is for me?
Senator Corbin: What are you studying?
Mr. Wilson-Smith: I am studying political science. I have a few courses to finish up at York University.
Senator Corbin: What are you aiming at for your life to come?
Mr. Wilson-Smith: I am starting internship at CP on May 25.
Senator Corbin: Are you looking to journalism as a career?
Mr. Wilson-Smith: Yes.
Senator Corbin: On the topic of the National Post, what is the number of free copies that it plants at universities?
Mr. Wilson-Smith: It varies. These are matters I could forward to the committee, if you would like.
Senator Corbin: That is good.
We have had the Pepsi and Coke wars on university campuses, with profits going to athletic programs and that sort of thing. Does the National Post contribute anything to university life besides loading it with recyclable material?
Mr. Wilson-Smith: I do not think so. They think they are performing a public service. They think they are getting students reading and engaged in politics. They figure that is enough.
Senator Corbin: Are you not concerned about some subtle form of brain-washing on certain issues?
Mr. Wilson-Smith: I read the National Post every day, but you have to counter that with something. The problem is that if only the National Post is available on campus, it becomes a problem. It is theoretically possible, as has happened in several instances, for them to sign exclusivity deals with the university, and more often with the student's union. The students unions see this as a great thing. They are providing the student with a service that they do not even have to pay for. The unions are gung ho.
Sometimes it is actually the university's prerogative to decide whether or not they are allowed to sign these kinds of things, and they do it anyway. The University of New Brunswick is a perfect example of that. The administration will not make a big deal out of it because they figure it is only a year contract. I am a little worried about that.
The thing is, we still have newspapers. As much as we can complain and come to Senate committees, our best tool is that we have newspapers to try to counter that. A big story for student papers this year was this exact issue. We have done all we can, providing coverage. We are not slanting the stories in any way. We are trying to get the issue out there. We do not feel it is much of an issue beyond the bubble world of student journalism right now. I am very appreciative that I got the opportunity to come here and talk about it.
Senator Corbin: If I may talk about advertising for a moment, are you represented nationally by agencies or one agency?
Mr. Wilson-Smith: In respect of advertising, we actually own Campus Plus. You saw the link for it on our Web site. CUP started Campus Plus in 1982 or 1983. It is kind of funny that we own it and make so little money, and Campus Plus is pulling in half a million in a good month. Again, it is owned by CUP, which is member-driven. We feel comfortable with this because papers can decide if they want to boycott something. The Martlet at the University of Victoria was infamous for having a boycott list that was three pages long. They would boycott everything.
That we own that agency is helpful to that end. Also, the board of directors of that agency is elected from CUP. It keeps it sort of in check.
Senator LaPierre: Why would students want to read the National Post?
Mr. Wilson-Smith: That is a great question. It boggles the mind. It is not even that good. Again, they have seen it in the stores, and it costs $1. They see it free in the rack, so why not pick it up, even if they just drop it somewhere. What is to lose by taking it to class and reading it?
The political debate between the National Post and The Globe and Mail is funny because it mostly takes place between those to papers only. Most students do not even realize it is happening. They see two daily newspapers and may not even be thinking about that. Again, it comes back to the pen being mightier than the sword; maybe we can take it upon ourselves to be part of the education process for students.
Yes, it comes down to that. I think that they think they are picking up a dollar when they pick it up. They see it as something that is usually a dollar, so why not take it?
Senator LaPierre: Do you mean to tell me that the university students in my country can be bought for a buck?
Mr. Wilson-Smith: I do not know if it is necessarily buying them.
Senator LaPierre: They give it to you free. You should tear it up.
Mr. Wilson-Smith: With many of these papers, the stacks will come every morning, and the editors will take them upstairs to the recycling bin. Not that I encourage that. That sounds rather illegal.
Senator LaPierre: They can do whatever they want, because at the end of the day, it will have to be picked up.
I am concerned about your statement about being non-political. Many people come here and say, ``I do not want to be political. I am non-political.'' The very act of being here is a political act. This is not the congregation of the holy rollers. This is a Senate political body, and you come here to present a point of view which is political, and you wish to help us to understand the political nature of what it is that you are after.
This is one of the best presentations I have heard since I have been here. Through your great talent, you present to us, to the best of your ability, in the most magnificent political form of potential success, so that we will be influenced by what you say and when we write your report we will remember who you are.
There is no doubt that I — and it would appear that Senator Fraser will also — remember who you are. Consequently, you have politically influenced us. I thank you for that. Do not say it again.
The Chairman: There is a distinction between ``political'' and ``partisan.'' We think politics is a high and honourable form of human activity. Senate committees tend not to be focused on intensely partisan questions, most of the time.
Senator LaPierre: Again, this has been one of the best presentations I have heard. I thank you very much for coming.
Mr. Wilson-Smith: Thank you, sir.
The Chairman: Senator LaPierre may dump on me instantly, but I want to set aside the large ``P'' political or partisan elements of any given newspaper, and in this case the National Post, and just look at the situation you are describing, very eloquently, from your point of view, and look at it from the point of view of newspapers in general, the newspaper industry.
One of the abiding problems that newspapers have is that young people are not reading them. You are in the minority in this case, because you appear to like journalism and want to go into print journalism, and more power to you. It is a lovely way to spend your life, and I hope you have much joy in it. However, you are, so far as can be ascertained, not representative of the majority of young folks these days.
Newspapers are casting around everywhere they can to try to encourage young people to get into the habit of reading newspapers. From that point of view, is it not rather clever and creative — and perhaps socially useful — to come onto campus and say, ``Get into the habit of reading a daily, folks.'' I am being a bit of a devil's advocate here, but there is a real point to it.
Mr. Wilson-Smith: I am happy you asked that question. It is not so much creative as correcting a hook with a slice. Maybe what they should be doing is keeping in mind that students are Canadians, too, and maybe we would like to read about ourselves more. We do not read about ourselves enough in the National Post, and that is part of the problem. The National Post is rather inaccessible.
The Chairman: Do you read enough about yourself in any mass-market newspaper? It is not just the National Post we are talking about here.
Mr. Wilson-Smith: No, you do not. When you think about an election, it is always about health care, which is universal. This election is different because post-secondary education has become a hot button. Usually the dailies write about whatever is universally important. The National Post has a page on education, or The Globe and Mail has Caroline Alphonso, and beyond that, I do not know what else.
Many interesting things are happening to students, and in some sense it is a gauge reflective of the rest of society. I suspect the National Post is thinking their readership is old, so they need to be writing for an older readership. Correctly so, I suppose, but if they want to engage younger students, they need to get them thinking more. They need to explain what is happening in Iraq in student terms. I do not mean dumbing it down, but bringing it home to them, and they are failing to do that.
The Chairman: Again, we are not just talking about the National Post here.
Mr. Wilson-Smith: No, and I should not keep picking on them.
The Chairman: That is the daily with which you have the most direct and immediate competition — so it is the one that looms large on your horizon.
Are there also lessons here for the broader picture? You are, an expert young witness. What are the best ways to attract young readers and get them into the habit of that form of community participation, which consists of paying attention to the news of the day? You are saying, tell us more about ourselves, bring big stories home to us, in ways that are real to us. Have you any other suggestions?
Mr. Wilson-Smith: I understand the thought process behind it. It is easy for them to say that they are developing young minds. I would counter that they are developing young minds so that they will gain subscribers when these young minds graduate. I do see the thought process. It does make sense, does it not? It will get them reading. To that end, it is not black and white. If you look at The Globe & Mail, they seem to have reached a happy medium. They have readership programs. However, to my mind, theirs are not as devious. The student still has the ability to decide, do I want to do this? Will I pay monthly? Is it worth my money?
To that end, I think there are good ways to have these readership programs. I would suggest what I said before — that readership programs do not have to go as far as they do with the paper I have been picking on. I do not even want to name them any more.
The Chairman: You mention that in some cases there are exclusivity arrangements, which means that no other paper has the right to put its racks out. Are there many of those?
Mr. Wilson-Smith: Not many. I only know of a couple. UNB and Memorial University in Newfoundland, I believe, has a similar arrangement with their students' union. In the end, the administration should have had the final say, but they just shrug it off saying it is only for a year.
I am worried that Clegg, the marketing company, knows how to do this. They are good at what they do; they contact the editors directly. If they want to do it right, they should go through the university first. Instead, they go to a news editor who may not have thought this through or a student union president who sees this as a great service to their students. Again, it comes down to education, but that is what this marketing company is doing and they will keep doing it because it is working for them.
Senator LaPierre: Why do you not have a national newspaper for all — that is, pour all your talent, all your money in a daily newspaper, done by students? You would put the National Post out of business, which would be a great blessing and a great gift to our country.
Mr. Wilson-Smith: There is such a high turnover of student journalists that every few years we tend to forget that we tried that before. We tried to do a magazine three years ago. It turns out that magazines in Canada do not fare so well. We learned that the hard way. The idea of a national newspaper is a good one but we do not have lots of money.
We have money for two national office staff, for us to travel and for one big giant national conference every year. Beyond that, we do not have much money. The papers have money, but that is how we stay alive. We thought of it before. Maybe an on-line thing would be fun, but student editors are thick-headed people. When they all get in one room, they all want to be editors.
Senator LaPierre: You sound like politicians.
Senator Graham: If you take a broad perspective and you look at the various universities from the outside, you sometimes get the impression that student bodies, as they are constituted, are highly politicized. They have different viewpoints and they are battling, at some universities, for control of the student government, for student organizations and, naturally, for student media.
I will just use a case in point. A couple of years ago at Concordia, when Benjamin Netanyahu was denied access to the university students. Is there a special problem for student newspapers in providing what might be termed a diversity of viewpoints?
Mr. Wilson-Smith: Do you mean are there issues of autonomy?
Senator Graham: Do the university student newspapers provide a diversity of viewpoints, as we would hope that all newspapers would give so that they are not so heavily slanted in one particular direction?
Mr. Wilson-Smith: Of course they do. What provides the check on that is that it is in paper's best interest because the more viewpoints, the better the paper. I will not lie and say that every paper is perfect. Every paper attempts to do that in some form or another. Part of our support network is that we learn from each other. We learn that going to classrooms and going around to different student groups is a way of attracting a whole host of perspectives on different issues. Some are doing it very well. The Link at Concordia is doing it famously.
You mentioned the Netanyahu incident. They have two warring groups, ``Progress Not Politics'' and the controversial one, the name of which is not coming to mind. When one side is not getting equal representation, the other sides gets up and demands that they balance it in the next issue. The Link is a great example. They are very good at that. Any story — ethnically, politically, age-related — it is all there. I will not say that any papers are bad at it. No one is very bad at it. Everybody is trying at least. That is a good start.
Senator Graham: The list of member services on your Web site includes legal advice for libel threats. Is the threat of a libel suit a great concern for student newspapers?
Mr. Wilson-Smith: Because we do not have much money, I am the final libel check for things that are run on our wire. We do retain a lawyer and pay for consultation for all of our member papers. However, because we do not have much money, ``when in doubt, leave it out'' has become our mantra. That is not to say that we do not press hard for the story. We will if we think we are right. However, if we think there is a danger that we will slander or libel someone, it is best to leave it out and then consult with a lawyer for a week. It is unfortunate that sometimes money comes into it and sometimes we have to play it safe.
Senator Graham: Good luck. We look forward to seeing your by-line in the future.
The Chairman: ``When it doubt, leave it out'' will be a good rule to keep in mind as you move into the big world journalism, too.
Senator Graham: You are talking to the former editor of the Montreal Gazette.
Mr. Wilson-Smith: I know. It is an honour.
The Chairman: Everyone here has had at least two fascinating careers and maybe four or five. It has been fascinating to have you with us today, Mr. Wilson-Smith. The issues you raise are substantive.
Mr. Wilson-Smith: Thank you very much.
The Chairman: Our next meeting will be on Thursday, May 6, at 10:45 a.m. At that time, we will continue our consideration of Bill S-2, which is Senator Oliver's bill about spam.
The committee adjourned.