Proceedings of the Standing Committee on
Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration
Issue 2 - Evidence for October 26, 2006
OTTAWA, Thursday, October 26, 2006
The Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration met this day at 9:35 a.m. to consider administrative and other matters.
Senator George J. Furey (Chairman) in the chair.
[English]
The Chairman: I call the public portion of today's meeting to order.
As honourable senators are aware, on behalf of the committee I presented the committee's sixth report to the chamber with respect to an increase in two budgets, as well as an increase in salary for directors and administration. Obviously there will be some rigorous debate with respect to one part of that report. If the committee is agreeable, I will withdraw the report and present it as two reports at a later stage. First, I will present the report on the economic increase for senior executives as soon as possible, probably next Tuesday, and the second report at a later date. I will discuss that with the committee before I do it.
If senators are agreeable, there are two ways we can proceed. The motion has not yet been proposed in the chamber, so it remains a notice of motion. It can be withdrawn unilaterally, either in writing or orally, without seeking the consent of the house. The clerk and I will decide how to do it, if the committee is okay with my proposal. I did not want to do it unilaterally without consulting the committee because it is not my report; it is a report of the committee.
Is it agreed, honourable senators?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: The next item of business concerns international travel. I have asked Senator Harb to speak to us about that particular issue. He has appeared before the steering committee, and the steering committee asked that he come before the full committee.
Senator Harb: Do all of my colleagues have a copy of the report?
The Chairman: Everyone has it.
Senator Harb: I wanted to address two points in it, the first being whether or not this trip was required. Colleagues will recall that the former Prime Minister of Lebanon was a great friend of Canada.
Senator Prud'homme: It is a very clear debate. Senator Harb does not have to re-explain, because then we will have questions. I am very happy. I have never seen such a long report for such a short trip — 30 pages.
The Chairman: I am in the hands of the committee. Do honourable senators wish to hear the explanation? Have you had time to read it, or are you satisfied?
Senator Jaffer: We have read it.
Senator Stratton: I was a part of a group that went to Congo for their first election in over 40 years. We got money out of the Canada-Africa group to do so, and we travelled to Congo under the umbrella of La Francophonie. We wanted to go back to Congo because there was to be a second election, which was just held. However, there was no money to go back.
I am concerned that if we think we should be making such trips, how do we accommodate them? There will be elections in several countries around the world, particularly in Africa. If that becomes a normal condition to travel, will we have to come forward each time and ask for money to do this? My concern is: Will the world stop if you do not do it?
Having been to Congo, I really am a believer in going and observing. However, my concern is that it is an ad hoc program right now. If you want to go as an individual you can do it, but it should not be that way. If we are to do this, we should look at it as a long-term program. If we want our presence to be felt in these communities around the world, we should have something to do just that.
The Chairman: The purpose of having Senator Harb here is really just to answer questions.
Senator Stratton: I wanted to make that comment to put his request in perspective.
The Chairman: Senator Harb, after you appeared before the subcommittee, I wrote you a letter asking you to provide documentation on the request from the then-minister that you make this trip. You responded and I would like you to explain your response.
Senator Harb: First, it was not the mission to observe the election. That mission was fully funded by CIDA. This trip was immediately after the assassination of Prime Minister Harari, and its purpose was to offer condolences as well as to meet with a number of people there, including the President of Lebanon and leaders from the opposition side.
Senator Stratton: For what purpose?
Senator Harb: To offer condolences and attend the funeral of Prime Minister Harari, who was a great friend of Canada, as well as to meet with the President of Lebanon.
The Chairman: That addresses Senator Stratton's question.
Senator Harb, you responded to me after I asked you to explain. My letter was dated May 10 and you replied by letter on May 16 and said that your answer was in the first page of the report. I know exactly what you are saying, but can you explain to the committee how you responded at that time?
Senator Harb: I was asked whether a minister asked me to go. No one asked me to go. I went in my capacity as a senator of Lebanese background. A huge number of people called my office to ask that something be done. No Canadian official wanted to attend on behalf of Canada, so I took that initiative on my own.
I was not able to appear before the committee, as it was an emergency under extraordinary circumstances. As such, it would not have been possible for me to come before the committee at that time.
Senator Prud'homme: Why did you put page 50 in your report? If I were you, I would remove it so it will not be necessary to have a debate.
Senator Harb: Absolutely. I am sorry.
Senator Prud'homme: It is a debate within a debate. You do not mind?
Senator Harb: Not at all.
The Chairman: Are there further questions?
Senator Kinsella: There was a death, which obviated the time line to come to the committee to make a request for international travel, because the funeral was to be held very quickly. Was it your understanding, Senator Harb, that there were precedents for this kind of thing? Perhaps you could explain to the committee what you were thinking?
Senator Harb: There were many events unfolding at the time. I have had a number of discussions with many officials in the Department of Foreign Affairs. They have explored on a very superficial basis whether a trip was needed at that time. They decided unanimously that it was because of the very tense situation that existed. I felt there was a possibility for me to provide a positive contribution to the process while demonstrating to the family of the former prime minister, as well as the people of Lebanon, that we support democracy and we care about was taking place at the time. We wanted to support the independence and sovereignty of the country while at the same time showing, on behalf of the people of Canada, that we are there.
Senator Kinsella: Did officials of the Department of Foreign Affairs give any indication that they might be able to help with the funding?
Senator Harb: The answer was no. As I indicated, had I had the necessary time, of course I would have appeared before the committee.
[Translation]
Senator Robichaud: If I understand correctly, Senator Harb went alone? He was not part of a delegation?
[English]
The Chairman: That is correct.
Thank you, Senator Harb.
The committee continued in camera.