Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Official Languages
Issue 7 - Evidence - Morning meeting
VANCOUVER, Tuesday, November 14, 2006
The Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages met this day at 9:00 a.m. to study and to report from time to time on the application of the Official Languages Act and the regulations and directives made under it, within those institutions subject to the Act, and to consider a draft report.
Senator Maria Chaput (Chairman) in the chair.
[Translation]
The Chair: Good morning all and welcome to this 12th meeting of the Senate Standing Committee on Official Languages. My name is Maria Chaput, and I come from Manitoba.
We are glad to be here in Vancouver, where we will be focusing on two main issues. First, the effect of decentralizing federal institutions' head offices on the application of the Official Languages Act, and the consideration of official languages in the organization of the 2010 Olympic Games.
Before handing the floor over to the witnesses, I would like to introduce the other committee members here today.
Senator Gerald Comeau from Nova Scotia, Senator Mobina Jaffer from British Columbia, Senator Rose-Marie Losier-Cool from New Brunswick, Senator Lowell Murray from Ontario, Senator Fernand Robichaud from New Brunswick, and Senator Claudette Tardif from Alberta.
Our first witnesses will be representatives from the Fédération des francophones de la Colombie-Britannique, Ms. Rakotonaivo, President, and Ms. Yseult Friolet, Executive Director.
The federation is comprised of about 40 provincial francophone organizations and has been designated as the advisory organization to the Vancouver Organizing Committee for the 2010 Olympic and Paralympics Games.
Ladies, the floor is yours. Your presentation will be followed by questions from the senators.
Michelle Rakotonaivo, President, Fédération des francophones de la Colombie-Britannique: Madam Chairman, I would like to thank you for this invitation. It is indeed a pleasure for us to share our thoughts with you on how the official languages are being taken into account in the organization of the 2010 Olympic and Paralympics Games in Vancouver-Whistler.
Your committee has shown exceptional leadership. The issue you have chosen to focus on is, of course, one of great importance for the entire francophone population of Canada. It is of particular importance to our francophone community here in British Columbia.
Today, I am accompanied by Ms. Yseult Friolet, Executive Director of the Fédération des francophones de la Colombie-Britannique. As you know, the FFCB is the umbrella organization that speaks on behalf of the community. Our role is to promote, represent and advocate on behalf of francophones' interests and, of course, protect our community's linguistic and cultural heritage.
The history of francophones in British Columbia goes as far back as 1793. When Alexandre Mackenzie crossed the Rocky Mountains, he was accompanied by six French-Canadian voyageurs.
According to the 2001 census, British Columbia's francophone community now totals 64,000 people. We know that the 2006 figures will demonstrate that our community is growing rapidly. I should add that if you factor in the number of bilingual people living in British Columbia, there are over 270,000 fluent French speakers or 7 per cent of our province's total population.
La Fédération des francophones de la Colombie-Britannique was founded in 1945. It is comprised of and supports about 40 associations representing francophones from various regions and across numerous sectors such as economic development, social and cultural development, youth, the elderly, justice and education. In fact, some of these organizations will be appearing before you later.
Coming back to the 2010 Games, the Fédération des francophones de la Colombie-Britannique has been monitoring this file from the very beginning. In our opinion, this historic event must and will have an enormous impact on our community.
British Columbia's francophone community held its breath on July 2, 2003, when the International Olympic Committee announced the name of the host city for the XXIst Winter Games. Just like the vast majority of Canadians, francophones in British Columbia felt a great deal of pride upon learning that Vancouver would be the host city for the 2010 Winter Games.
Canada will be hosting the Olympic Games for the third time in its history, and the francophone community wants to be involved. We want to help stage exceptional Olympic Games, which will demonstrate that Canada's bilingualism is a key part of our identity, and something that the whole country can be proud of. Indeed, for us, the 2010 Olympic Games will be an opportunity to showcase our linguistic duality, to share it with thousands of athletes and tourists who come and visit us, as well as millions of TV viewers who will be watching the Games.
From the outset, we knew we wanted to be directly involved. In fact, staging the Games is a tremendous springboard for our community's development, both from an economic, social and, of course, cultural and artistic standpoint.
Make no bones about it: the staging of the Games and all its related activities is a dream opportunity for us to demonstrate that the French fact in British Columbia and in Canada constitutes a tremendous value added.
It is also, and this is what I want to stress the most, an unhoped-for opportunity for our community to increase its visibility and prove that it contributes to the richness and the development of our province and our country.
We are reassured by the fact that these XXIst Winter Games will be held in an officially bilingual country, a reality entrenched in law, and that the Olympic movement itself has both French and English as its official languages. Expectations are high when it comes to bilingualism, and rightly so, and we are glad about this.
Moreover, both the federal government and VANOC have pledged on numerous occasions to make the 2010 Winter Olympics an event for all Canadians. It is our hope, therefore, that the various constituent parts that make up our country and enrich it will not be forgotten, and that on the contrary, they will be fully involved in both the planning and staging of the Games.
There is no doubt in our minds that the many players involved in the organization and staging of the Games are fully aware of their responsibilities regarding the two official languages of both our country and the Games. The Games secretariat has been unequivocal on this matter and VANCO also made a commitment in this regard when, last June, it signed a collaborative protocol with the FFCB and the Fondation canadienne pour le dialogue des cultures.
The protocol, which we signed on behalf of the entire francophone community, is very clear:
The Canadian Francophone Community, in particular the Francophone Community in British Columbia, wish to use the opportunities offered by the 2010 Games to continue developing their community at large, to increase their profile and visibility and also to provide VANOC with the support needed to deliver on their Official Languages commitments, particularly in the areas of the volunteers' recruitment, cultural and educational programs.
This protocol clearly testifies to VANOC's commitment and the role we can play. It also provides us with a framework within which we can work closely with all players, with all stakeholders, including VANOC, the Foundation, and all the institutions and associations wishing to contribute to the Games' success, not to mention the Government of Quebec, which also signed a framework agreement with VANOC.
The signing of the protocol is in fact the end result of a series of steps taken by the FFCB on behalf of its community. We were involved in the initial process which led to Vancouver being chosen as host city, and we were even involved in pushing for the translation of documents during this nail-biting period.
I must say that we have always got the sense that both the people and institutions involved in the bid process were committed to the notion of official languages. Moreover, this commitment is clearly defined in the 2010 Olympic Games multi-party agreement, signed at the very beginning of the process, in November 2002.
It is also clear to us that the ``Canadian policy for hosting international sport events,'' which outlines the government of Canada's financial contribution to the organization of the Games obligates VANOC to comply with federal official languages standards and legislation.
The key to success, of course, will be the way this multipartite agreement is implemented. Even though what we have read gives us the sense that the official languages will be taken into consideration, it is in practice, and in the details, that we will be in a better position to judge the real commitment of the parties involved in organizing the Games.
I do not have to convince members of your committee that there is sometimes a discrepancy between commitments made through legislation, regulations or various administrative and collaborative agreements, and the reality experienced ``on the ground,'' which is what remains to be seen over the upcoming months.
In order to help us meet our responsibilities, the FFCB has rallied its community. Two committees have been struck: the flame bearer committee which brings together the most visible pillars of our community and the ad hoc committee which is charged with planning and implementation.
The community also has a strategic plan, which still needs to be fine-tuned. We also decided, given the enormity of the task before us, that we needed to hire someone to coordinate our communities' various initiatives and provide an ongoing link between the various local and national stakeholders. Canadian Heritage, just last week, gave us the go- ahead to create this position. However, we need to find a government partner, a source of funding, to keep this position after March 31, 2007. Unfortunately, Canadian Heritage did not give a multi-year commitment. This is, of course, the heart of the problem. It seems to indicate that the show of commitment made in public and the commitments given officially by the federal government do not necessarily amount to concrete action and positive measures, the importance of which cannot be underestimated. I use the term ``positive measures'' in reference to Part VII of the Official Languages Act as amended a couple of months ago.
As I said a few moments ago, we have always got the sense that those people mandated to ensure that the Games reflect our nation as a whole were committed to the notion of official languages.
For example, let me emphasize how delighted we were that the province's francophone community, that is the Société Maillardville-Uni, would be asked to be involved in the Maison du Canada during the Torino Games.
We are also very pleased that VANOC will be consulting our community on the November 16 regarding the cultural Olympiads. Such highly visible action on the part of the organizers testifies to the consideration being given to the interests of francophones.
These are great examples. But day-to-day management is another thing. The staff of VANOC will have to focus on all sorts of details, for example, any written material must be in both official languages, given that announcements will be coming from the federal government; everything to do with visitor and public services must be provided in both official languages; everything involving athletes' and coaches' services must be available in both official languages; promotion both domestically and abroad must be in both official languages; cultural and sporting sites and events must be bilingual, and the list goes on and on.
We will need a large number of volunteers who can communicate in French. The recruitment process will have to be systematic. Our community is prepared to play its role. By way of example, our young people will get the training they need to become volunteers by taking a course provided by the francophone school board of British Columbia. In a nutshell, each and every stakeholder needs to be prepared to make a concerted effort.
Let me give you a couple of hard-to-ignore examples. At the September 2006 celebrations in Whistler there was not a single francophone performer; this was also the case at the closing ceremony in Turin. Another serious problem, in our opinion, was the lack of French used by the Canadian delegations' members in Canada's formal presentation in Prague in July 2003. And yet, the delegation was comprised of high-ranking Government of Canada officials and representatives from Canada's Olympic movement.
Canada's francophone culture was also absent at the cultural event which took place March 4, 2003, in Vancouver in honour of the International Olympic Committee's Evaluation Commission.
It is neither necessary nor useful to dwell on the past. We are now interested in the future, the commitments which have been made and how these commitments will be honoured. We do not want athletes, the Olympic staff, the public in the grandstands and in front of their television sets and Canadians to have even a shadow over doubt that the 2010 winter Olympics are taking place in a bilingual country and that bilingualism in Canada is an integral part of their identity.
I said this at the start of my presentation, and I will say it again: for the francophone community of British Columbia and undoubtedly for francophones throughout Canada, having the Olympic Games and its associated activities take place in Vancouver is an once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for the advancement of our nation's French language and culture. Francophones in British Columbia are committed to making the most of this opportunity.
This is why we are passionate about making sure the 2006 to 2009 cultural Olympiad activities, the 2010 cultural programs and the various ceremonies taking place before and during the Games, put francophone performers front and centre.
I am optimistic. The consultations which took place in November on the cultural Olympiads indicate that francophone performers from British Columbia and elsewhere in Canada will be invited. I should point out that we also want to have francophone performers from outside Quebec involved. Far too often, francophone culture is solely associated with Quebec performers, despite the fact that our communities are overflowing with talent.
In closing, I am confident, given its commitments to official languages and the Olympiads, that VANOC will ensure that the official languages and francophone culture will be factored into the decision-making process. It will be crucial for all partners, especially the governments of Canada and British Columbia, to support the francophone community's initiatives with respect to the 2010 winter Olympics.
It is crucial that Canadian Heritage, which is the department charged with coordinating the federal Olympic effort, convince us that it takes its leadership role seriously and that the Government of Canada will go to whatever lengths are necessary, particularly from a financial standpoint, to ensure that official languages commitments are honoured and that the province's francophone community is fully involved in a collective effort.
The francophone community is willing and able to cooperate with all its partners on issues relating to official languages. We have already recommended to Canadian Heritage that there be francophone representatives on the various advisory and working committees which will be established in support of VANOC and its work.
We believe that if we are able to work together from the very beginning rather than when problems arise that together we will make the 2010 Olympic Games a model for success at every level, including in the eyes of the Grand Témoin.
We have all the necessary ingredients already to ensure that the 2010 winter Olympic Games reflect our country's linguistic duality. We must use these assets to cast our linguistic duality in the best possible light in order to clearly show the whole world Canada's commitment to this fundamental principle which is at the very heart of what defines us as Canadians.
The Fédération des francophones de la Colombie-Britannique will work with its network of members and partners to support the VANOC team and its partners to make the 2010 Olympic Games an unmitigated success. We have a network of organizations working in all sectors of society. And you will hear from some of them a little later. They will share their concerns, but also their success stories. I am convinced that by the end of your stay or by tomorrow afternoon, you will have no doubt in your mind of how solid and vibrant British Columbia's francophone community is. With its 270,000 people capable of communicating in French, British Columbia is clearly equipped to cooperate with VANOC and the Fondation pour le dialogue des cultures to ensure that we all honour the commitments that we made together in the area of official languages.
I would now like to say a few words about the second issue which concerns the decentralization of federal offices. We should also point out that the presentation the Association des juristes d'expression française will be making tomorrow is of the utmost importance to us and the entire community.
I would now like to say a few words about the Canadian Tourism Commission. The Canadian Tourism Commission's relocation made headlines in British Columbia. Newspaper articles and television reports spoke of the arrival of a great number of francophone public servants. Our community was glad to hear this.
In April 2005, in Ottawa, we were involved in a briefing session organized by the Canadian Tourism Commission where we talked about our community and our services. What we provide in terms of services is no longer a subject of debate: families can live in French and their children can be educated in our schools.
It is true that the effects of decentralizing the head offices of federal institutions are not always immediately felt. Few people in our institutions or associations have much of a relationship with the Canadian Tourism Commission and the Federation, recently learned that only 19 people had agreed to relocate. Unfortunately, to date, no official meeting has taken place between the commission's staff and the FFCB. Staffing issues and problems with facilities were the reasons given to explain this delay.
In the presentation by the Société de développement économique, you will be hearing about the relationships being built thanks to the SDE's work and its close cooperation with Tourism BC. Tourism is a booming industry in B.C. and there are many francophone associations focusing on it. For example, the Cercle des Canadiens français de Prince George just joined the Spirit of BC Committee. Nanaimo is currently having its economic sites translated into French and is involved in cultural and commercial exchanges with Quebec. The exchange came out of an initiative by the Association des francophones de Nanaimo, as a result of the Maple Sugar Festival of Nanaimo. The Francophonie needs the support of the Canadian Tourism Commission!
Things are set to change: an official meeting between the Canadian Tourism Commission and the FFCB is now being scheduled. We know that 27 per cent of employees at the Commission are francophones and that 50 per cent have a level of fluency in French recognized by the federal government. We welcome these new public servants.
So linguistic capacity of our province has improved and more federal public servants can provide services in French. It is now time to build a relationship, issue an invitation and solidify our gains.
We are still waiting for a Canadian Tourism Commission representative to take part in meetings with federal officials, the section 41, and the interdepartmental task force mandated to work with the francophone community. We would welcome such a representative. This sort of involvement would send a convincing message.
Francophone communities throughout Canada are clearly delighted to see that the federal government considers decentralization to be a benefit to our communities.
I am confident the message will be heard.
Senator Tardif: Thank you, I would like to commend you on your excellent brief. There is no doubt that you have the enthusiasm, conviction and energy necessary to make the Olympics Games a real success in terms of the use of French. Your brief was very thorough and well thought out.
My first question is about sport, and I will come back to the Olympics. If I understood correctly, you said you only got funding for one year for the position of coordinator to help make connections, facilitate meetings and recruit volunteers.
Can you tell me whether there is a link with sports program at Canadian Heritage? Is there any way you can get funding from Canadian Heritage through their strategic sport program?
Yseult Friolet, Executive Director, Fédération des francophones de la Colombie-Britannique: Madam Chairman, as Ms. Rakotonaivo said earlier, we started coordinating our efforts in March 2005. We worked with Canadian Heritage in Ottawa, in relation to our regional heritage, and with the office managed by Mr. Lussier, and we spoke to the Strategic Fund representatives. It is quite a mysterious fund. We started the process in 2005. I got a letter in my office this week stating there would be a $40,000 grant lasting until the end of March. This money is more or less enough for four or five months of coordination work on a file which involves the Fondation canadienne pour le dialogue des cultures, the province and, of course, VANOC. As we mentioned in our brief, this money would be available until only March 31, 2007. We never focused our energies on the sport program because the activities we will be involved in have much more of coordination and networking focus. There is no direct link with sport, per se. Perhaps there is another source when we are aware of.
Senator Tardif: Does this $40,000 come out of the envelope from the Strategic Fund?
Ms. Rakotonaivo: The message we got throughout this funding process was clear. We were to look for support locally. We were very disappointed to hear this. We have developed a strategic plan, but the funding for that will not come from Canadian Heritage. We have sought out our funding ourselves, with the help of the Société de développement économique, Industry Canada and another department. It has been a challenge.
Senator Tardif: Could you tell us exactly what connection you have with the Fondation canadienne pour le dialogue des cultures? I do not completely understand how their mandate differs from yours. How the two groups connected as far as the Olympic Games are concerned?
Ms. Rakotonaivo: In March 2005, the Fondation canadienne pour le dialogue des cultures was given responsibility for the 2010 Olympic Games, the overall Canadian Francophonie File.
The foundation is supposed to coordinate and look after everything to do with francophones in the Olympic Games. The Fédération des francophones de la Colombie-Britannique is working side by side with the Fondation canadienne pour le dialogue des cultures. We look after everything that happens in British Columbia and play a coordination role. The Fondation looks after pan-Canadian issues within British Columbia.
Senator Tardif: Is there any funding available from the Fondation for your activities?
Ms. Rakotonaivo: The Fondation has specific sources for the coordination of the project as a whole, the pan- Canadian project, and it would like British Columbia to have its own fund. Canadian Heritage has also supported us in our funding application. We have the support of the Fondation in our fundraising efforts for British Columbia and for coordination of the file.
Senator Tardif: Forty thousand dollars does not seem to be very much.
Ms. Rakotonaivo: It is very little for the entire file and, in addition, there is no follow-up.
Senator Tardif: That is unacceptable.
Senator Jaffer: I would like to welcome my colleagues.
[English]
I want to thank all of my colleagues for being here and I want to tell the people from British Columbia that this committee is very much interested in the issues that you have been addressing.
[Translation]
Do you meet with the partners involved in organizing the Olympic Games on a regular basis, namely, VANOC, or the federal government, the government of British Columbia or the municipal government?
Ms. Rakotonaivo: Yes, we work very closely with VANOC. We have scheduled a meeting in December and, a little bit later on in the year, there will be follow-up meetings with the Canadian Heritage Games secretariat. Our organizations and associations work with the municipalities and with all of the agencies associated with the 2010 Olympic Games.
[English]
In your very detailed brief, you mentioned the meetings you have had and some of the results. Obviously, we are very discouraged with the monies that have been available to promote French within the games. Does someone from VANOC regularly participate and then reports to you as to what is happening with the games?
[Translation]
Ms. Friolet: We signed a memorandum of understanding, Senator Jaffer, last June with VANOC and the foundation, in an effort to coordinate all these efforts, because it is a very big machine.
At present, Ms. Bolduc is our francophone liaison officer for VANOC. Since last September, we have picked up the pace because the work moving ahead. Next week, we have a meeting with representatives from the Cultural Olympiad. Soon we will have made some progress in organizing the volunteers, who will be wanting to participate in this great event. We are talking here about 20,000 to 30,000 individuals. Those are a lot of volunteers that we need to organize. Activities are well under way.
Things are not going so well in the area of our organizational capacity and our ability to deal with all of the issues regarding the projects. We submitted a request to the government last December. We had to reduce our request for all kinds of reasons and, in the end, we received $40,000. We will use this money; however, next week we will be back at work to ensure that there is really enough funding in place so that the francophone community of British Columbia can do its job. They are expecting a great deal from us. We are their ears, we are the ones working on the ground and we must be able to satisfy their requests. The task is so big that we need to reach out to francophones across Canada. Working locally, it is a bit more difficult.
You asked a question about the city. We have not yet established a direct link with the city of Vancouver. I believe that the associations, such as the Centre culturel francophone de Vancouver, will need to develop cultural and social links with the city. One of our members will be doing this. But this is a big job. We need support. I agree with you, $40,000 is not very much. I am quite a good manager, but I think that the work that we can do with this amount is limited.
[English]
Senator Jaffer: I can vouch for your management because I worked with you before. Do you have any contacts with the Municipality of Whistler?
[Translation]
Ms. Friolet: Once again, we do have contacts with them but we are waiting until they develop their requirements lists. We do know that consultations have taken place for the Cultural Olympiad activities, which will be held from 2006 to 2009. We also know that we should be involved in organizing the opening and closing ceremonies for the Games. We need to recognize that it is the athletes who will be working. We want to participate and support VANOC in holding these Games. For instance, we will be involved in the famous marathon where the torch gets passed from person to person right across the country, so we need representation from Canadian francophonies in this event. We also need to ensure that there is significant participation by Canadian francophonies at the closing ceremony.
As regards the Grand Témoin for the 2010 Games, we have to ensure that we can make a difference, especially since we live in an officially bilingual country. This is what we are hoping to do with VANOC, the partners and the two cities involved.
[English]
Senator Jaffer: You talked about capacity building and were very clear regarding what you have asked for. If I am correct, thus far you have received $40,000 to help. Could you share with the committee — not today, but if you could send it to the chair — what you asked for, what your vision was, so we can see exactly what you were thinking regarding how you would work with VANOC and the assistance you have received thus far?
Ms. Friolet: What kind of information do you think would be important for you to get? Do you want me to answer now?
Senator Jaffer: It is not necessary. You obviously have worked out how much help you require and how much money you need to mobilize all the volunteers and everything else. If that could be sent to the chair, then we would have an idea what you were thinking and what you have received so far.
Ms. Friolet: We will do that.
[Translation]
Ms. Rakotonaivo: We would be pleased to send you our strategic planning, our budget and all of that.
Senator Comeau: Ladies, I am very pleased to meet you in British Columbia, despite the fact that I arrived at three o'clock in the morning.
I would like to go back to the questions that were put by Senator Tardif regarding the Fondation canadienne pour le dialogue des cultures and the relationship that exists between you and the foundation, between the foundation and VANOC, and between VANOC and the government.
I am under the impression that VANOC and the government liaise primarily with the foundation with respect to the francophonie and the visibility of the francophonie at the Olympic Games.
Has the foundation received any money? In reality, if it is the federation that is doing the actual work to find volunteers, it is the foundation that benefits from government money; that seems reasonable to me.
Ms. Rakotonaivo: In actual fact, we work as a partnership. Earlier you said that there was a relationship with Canadian Heritage and the Games Secretariat and VANOC. We too have a relationship. The federation has a relationship, as does the foundation. Everything that is pan-Canadian is done through the foundation, and everything that occurs locally is done through the Fédération des francophones de la Colombie-Britannique. The foundation has a fund for coordinating everything that is pan-Canadian. They have established committees. I will leave it up to them to talk to you about this aspect tomorrow. We must decide who does what work.
Senator Comeau: Could there have been some confusion when the presentation to the governments was made, when the funds were distributed or when the request for financing was presented to Canadian Heritage? When this presentation was made, was there anything in particular for work done locally as opposed to reviewing everything from the national perspective, which is the role of the foundation. I am wondering whether or not there was a section that applied to you?
Ms. Friolet: I do not think that we can hide the fact that there was some confusion at the outset. We had advised the people at the national level that the Olympic file would be presented. We were living this. As we stated in our brief, we participated in the bid to hold the games. We were ahead of schedule when that happened. When we began dealing with the Games Secretariat, through Canadian Heritage, clearly someone said, at the national level, that an entire national infrastructure was required in order to deal with such a big event. I think that this has been understood. Was there any confusion? Yes, there was when our federation was questioned about the work it did. But we are resilient and we continued to tell them that the games were being held here and that it was important that our community be involved. We need tools and we are not going to go through Ottawa in order to meet a VANOC request for something that is happening locally.
The foundation, which has a pan-Canadian mandate to bring all Canadian francophones together, also has another mandate, and that is to rally Quebec. This is no easy task. We are therefore in the process of establishing guidelines and developing a liaison process. On the weekend, we will be signing a memorandum of understanding with the foundation to ensure that this cooperation takes place. The problem pertains to the money, because the foundation received the funding. We need our share and they do as well.
Senator Comeau: Was there any confusion in Ottawa, at Canadian Heritage, which may have thought that the foundation was going to look after all of that and perhaps the people working on the ground, the people in British Columbia who were doing the work, were overlooked? The foundation has to look after Quebec, because this is a national issue. I understand that full well. However, I wonder if there was an oversight in the dialogue that took place with Canadian Heritage.
Ms. Friolet: Perhaps you could put this question to the people from Canadian Heritage.
Senator Comeau: We will deal with it.
Ms. Friolet: We tried to make it clear to the representatives from the government, especially Canadian Heritage, that it was also important to fund our community and to support us. If a decision was made somewhere alone the line to give the pan-Canadian mandate to the foundation, that is fine. But we must not be forgotten.
Senator Comeau: I have my answer. The mysterious strategic fund, which you alluded to, is a fund that in the past was discretionary. The minister could spend this money at his discretion. This mysterious strategic fund no longer exists. Whether it was for the good or not, a change was made and the new government decided that there would no longer be any strategic funds in the minister's pockets. We have to try and find another mean of getting money. Because ministerial discretionary funds no longer exist. Perhaps there is another way that we could deal with the situation.
Ms. Friolet: Perhaps this should be investigated, because I am convinced that the money is still, under your government. So if it is not the strategic fund —
Senator Comeau: The funds are there, but they must now be adopted. Parliament voted on the funds and they are contained in certain envelopes. What is different now is that the envelopes cannot be spent at the discretion of the minister.
In your presentation, you mentioned that an agreement has been signed between VANOC and Quebec. Have you found out about any other agreements signed with other provinces? For example, if Quebec signed an agreement with VANOC, does VANOC intend to sign agreements with other provinces, such as New Brunswick, an officially bilingual province?
Ms. Friolet: They began with Quebec, because there are more francophones in Quebec. It is a distinct society. I think that VANOC sent Quebec a very positive message stating it wanted to work with Quebec. I did get the impression that they intended to sign agreements with other provinces or other big sectors in order to make these Games a real success.
The Chairman: Senator Comeau, you could ask the same question when we hear from the representatives from VANOC.
Senator Comeau: It is very important. I think there may have been some confusion in Ottawa.
Senator Losier-Cool: I too would like to congratulate you on your very wonderful presentation. Two weeks ago, the committee heard from Ms. Lise Bissonnette, who was the Grand Témoin for the Torino Games. Your presentation was along the same lines as the one given by Ms. Bissonnette when she said that Canada had a unique opportunity, with the Vancouver Games, to showcase and go back to the real Olympic values. She was speaking about the French language, which was the first language spoken at the Olympic Games. You are, I believe, in line with the wishes expressed by Ms. Bissonnette.
I would like some clarification about your federation, which includes 64,000 members. You said that 270,000 citizens of British Columbia speak French. Is there a large enough concentration of francophones in the province that would enable it to have some political power, either at the municipal or provincial level? I know that a francophone from British Columbia is sitting in the NDP party. But at the municipal level, are there any francophones?
Ms. Friolet: Municipalities report to the province. Right now, Whistler is one place where we could, if everybody were part of the same political party, elect some people. There is a heavy concentration of francophones living in Whistler and, with the advent of the Games, there will be even more. There are a few francophone neighborhoods, in the city of Vancouver, but not enough to elect somebody. We could send you our most recent political analysis. There are some ridings where we could form alliances with people and make more of a difference. The greater region of Vancouver is also covered as well as the Victoria region.
But we are experiencing difficulties because of the geography. We are turning into a big city. The greater region of metropolitan Vancouver contains more than 60 per cent of the population. You can see the urban sprawl that is taking place, the problems with transportation, because we are between the mountains and the sea. There is a highway and there is the water. That is a big problem. We know that, in terms of demographics, British Columbia is about to explode. This has been forecasted by demographers.
The problem facing the francophone community is that, even if it is growing, it represents between 1.6 and 2 per cent of the population. If we just consider the numbers, it is a very difficult situation. But we have to ask ourselves what the francophone community can do. We do represent 7 per cent of the population, and that is something. Asians represent 10 per cent of the population. We, the francophones, represent 7 per cent. Things need to change, there are a lot of myths out there. When visitors come to British Columbia, they need to know that 7 per cent of the population speaks French. This is where there are the most young people in immersion classes. It is important that these children, after grade 12, know how to speak French. This has to occur in our centres. At the Olympic Games, these francophones must be able to say that they can use their French. We have to go beyond the issue of numbers so that Canada can fully experience its second official language, French.
Senator Losier-Cool: I have another very brief question about the volunteers. When you are part of a minority, you do a lot of volunteer work, regardless of where you live in Canada. Sometimes it becomes apparent that it is always the same people who do the work and they become tired and worn out. Volunteering at the Olympic Games is no mean task. This is about committed volunteering. Do you feel that francophones have this desire, this motivation to become involved if there were enough of them?
Ms. Friolet: Yes, indeed.
Ms. Rakotonaivo: Moreover, we are already working on this aspect with our young people and we are prepared to welcome other volunteers from other regions in Canada. We have quite a few francophones who are prepared to do some volunteer work.
Senator Losier-Cool: If this is the last opportunity that we will have to meet with you, I would like to know what you would like us to include in the report that this committee will be writing about the Vancouver Olympic Games? What advice would you give us?
Ms. Friolet: We have told you how difficult it is to do our work and therefore I would like you to ask some questions and provide us with your support in finding funding. We are prepared to do some creative financing. This could be done with one or two sources of funding. Having access to this founding is important for British Columbia and the francophone community. We have asked for $100,000. This is not a huge amount of money.
Senator Murray: I too would like to ask you several questions about the francophone community in British Columbia. You call yourselves Franco-Colombiens and not Franco-Colombiens britanniques?
Ms. Friolet: We call ourselves Britanno-Colombiens.
Senator Murray: Our research branch has provided us with some demographic figures about the distribution of francophones in the regions of Vancouver, Victoria, Kelowna and Nelson. You mentioned the Conseil scolaire francophone de la Colombie-Britannique. I am assuming that this organization is responsible for managing your French schools. How many French schools do you have in British Columbia? Where are they located and how many students are enrolled? How many students with language entitlements attend your schools? This question is of interest to us because, a few years ago, we heard testimony that was quite troubling to the effect that 50 or 60 per cent of eligible students exercised their right to attend French schools? In old Acadia, in Nova Scotia, we saw this problem and we explored, in a report, some possible solutions to it.
Your brief also mentioned relations with the provincial government. In our briefing notes, reference is made to some office in the British Columbia government, the Francophone Affairs Offices, which comes under the Ministry of Intergovernmental Relations. The briefing notes describes the mandate of this office. Could you talk to us about the relationship that you have with this organization?
Ms. Friolet: First of all, I will answer your question about the statistics. We have about 4,000 students enrolled in French schools, the school board was set up in 1995, — we are celebrating its tenth anniversary — there are 19 French schools and about 79 programs throughout the province.
Senator Murray: Did you say 19 French schools throughout the province?
Ms. Friolet: Yes. That is how things stand today. The difficulty that we have with people with language rights is that our population is exogamous. I know that the school board and the Fédération des parents francophones de la Colombie-Britannique are trying to find those with language entitlements. We did not find out who these people were until 1995. If we had had the figures in 1982, with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, I think that we could have made a difference. We are going to give the school board another 10 or so years. The problem is that we have only one school board for the entire province of British Columbia.
Senator Murray: I would presume that the members are chosen in more or less democratic fashion?
Ms. Friolet: They are elected.
Senator Murray: By francophone parents?
Ms. Friolet: Yes, indeed. I know that over the past few years, there has always been a funding problem. I will explain one problem to help you understand the situation: you are one school board covering the entire province, with an enrolment of 4,000 students, and you are told that the student has to pay so much money for transportation. Your territory is all of British Columbia. Most of the school board territories are tiny. Vancouver does not have the same student transportation difficulties as our school board does. For the past 10 years, this school board has had to explain this aspect to the Ministry of Education.
Senator Murray: What is the percentage of those with language entitlements enrolled in your schools?
Ms. Rakotonaivo: They are all students with language entitlements.
Senator Murray: Yes, I know, but there are students with language entitlements who do not attend French schools.
Ms. Friolet: We were provided with some statistics when we established the school board and there were apparently 10,000 to 15,000 students with language entitlements, but the demographers have set us straight on that to some extent. I was told that there were between 5,000 and 6,000. As we speak, 4,000 students are enrolled. However, high school remains the problem.
As far as statistics are concerned, do you want us to talk about our relationship with the Government of British Columbia?
Senator Murray: With the Francophone Affairs Office.
Ms. Friolet: You must render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's. As far as the government is concerned, we obtained the first federal-provincial agreement on French services on a government-to-government basis with Mr. Dosanjh. He signed this agreement. Mr. Campbell took it over and appointed a provincial member of the legislature who was responsible for francophone liaison — this was a first — and since 2003-2004, we have a minister. As a premier, Mr. Campbell has really supported our community and this year, the envelope was increased. I have been told that we have gone from $500,000 to $700,000 for the year. This is an unprecedented opportunity, for our community, to work with the provincial government.
Senator Robichaud: Could you talk to me a bit about the protocol that you signed with VANOC. Did the foundation and you both sign the same protocol?
Ms. Friolet: Yes.
Senator Robichaud: You talked about the support that VANOC was given with respect to official language obligations in order to, among other things, recruit volunteers. That must be quite a job, particularly given the numbers that you mentioned earlier. Have you reached an agreement with the foundation as to who will be recruiting the volunteers?
Ms. Rakotonaivo: The foundation has established some committees — they will talk to you about all that tomorrow — and British Columbia is sitting on each of these committees. There are committees for education, sports, the economy, tourism and everything pertaining to volunteers. It is the committees that will decide how things will work.
Senator Robichaud: That is going to be complicated.
Ms. Rakotonaivo: This is one of the reasons why we need a coordinator. You have given only one example, but the other aspects are also important.
Ms. Friolet: VANOC has been mandated to recruit volunteers. We are not going to serve as a replacement for VANOC, which has a mandate to deliver results and to hold the Games in this country. We made a commitment to serve as the link with the francophone community and the francophile community as well. We will be working with them and it is up to them to explain their volunteer requirements — they have already started to do this, moreover — and to determine what percentage of people need to be bilingual.
Will all of the volunteers be able to speak both official languages well? Perhaps not. That would be good, but we will help them recruit people in our 7 per cent of the population. We want to support them, but we are no replacement for the commitments that VANOC made with the Government of Canada to deliver the Games.
Senator Robichaud: I understand that very well, but when it is a matter of finding volunteers who can speak both official languages, at one point, they will not be able to find them and they will certainly call on your services for assistance.
Ms. Rakotonaivo: We will give them our support.
Senator Robichaud: It takes people to do that.
Ms. Friolet: In British Columbia, 270,000 people speak French
Senator Robichaud: I understood that.
Ms. Friolet: There are about 150,000 in the Vancouver region. Volunteers have to be free for three months in order to get training and to work. People will sign up — it has already begun — but this is a challenge for everybody and it is for this reason that we wanted to be present. Obviously, we cannot have all of the volunteers sent in from across the country. Some small delegations will come, but we are expecting the citizens of British Columbia to get involved. The Games are going to be held here. This is a very good example of decentralized tourist attractions. Not everything is taking place in the big capital city. The big event will take place here, in Vancouver. This is wonderful for all of Canada.
The Chairman: Ladies, I would like to thank you very sincerely. You delivered your message very effectively, as evidenced by the questions put to you by the honourable senators. Will you keep us informed and send us the information we requested?
Ms. Friolet: Yes, we will do so.
The Chairman: Thank you very much and good luck.
We will now be hearing from the Executive Director of the Société de développement économique de la Colombie- Britannique, Mr. Donald Cyr.
I would like you to understand, honourable senators, that when the mayor of Vancouver arrives, he will have only 30 minutes to give us, so as soon as he arrives, we will hear the testimony from the mayor.
Meanwhile, Mr. Cyr, I would like to thank you for your availability. The floor is yours.
Donald Cyr, Executive Director, Société de développement économique de la Colombie-Britannique: Thank you very much, Madam Chairman, for giving me this opportunity to talk to you this morning. Ms. Rakotonaivo said on several occasions that the community wanted to get very involved. I would like to explain why we need your help and to provide you with an example of what we can do with only a few employees, when we support the francophone community. We know that governments work in a vertical fashion — we call them silos — but the problems that we often find in a community are not vertical, they are horizontal. This is why we, the francophone associations, are in a better position to resolve these problems because we are dealing with horizontal issues.
This enables us to have a horizontal approach that is adapted to the context and to achieve the critical mass which is often difficult for government to attain. The Société de développement économique de la Colombie-Britannique works with the Department of Western Economic Diversification, WD, which recognizes that approach and, thanks to their support, we can use a somewhat more horizontal approach than a traditional association. This enables us to do many things that other associations could not do.
I am here to encourage this kind of support for the francophonie in order to move forward. Our principal mandate is related to the economy and serves to provide support for entrepreneurs. However, I will not talk to you about the business sector, where we have many examples of success stories. We create business plans for businesses, we help them obtain financing and conduct studies in order to take charge of their affairs and when we do not do this work, the French factor is lost.
I will discuss a few projects. For example, we often get involved with the province to encourage investment in British Columbia. Here is a brief information package that explains why it is important to invest in this province and not just visit it. We often accompany investors from all over — from Quebec or from France — to encourage them to come to British Columbia. We also encourage people regarding immigration. We have a labour shortage. We wrote a good article in a publication called Vivre à l'étranger which appears in France. You recognize our logo here, and we encourage people to live and work in British Columbia. We often work with francophone associations and we are experts in planning. As a matter of fact, there is an association in Comox where two years ago there were six children in their school and now there are 176. We also work very closely with our anglophone counterparts.
I would like to tell you a bit more about our projects regarding tourism. Last year, we published 650,000 brochures in Quebec and tourism increase 33 per cent in British Columbia. That provides a francophone showcase for British Columbia. It helps francophone companies in British Columbia and it is important to continue to do this.
We are working very closely with Industry Canada to give a workshop in Montreal — we will be going there next week — before the chambers of commerce of Montreal, Quebec City, and Trois-Rivières. The CEO of VANOC will be in Montreal with us. We are working very closely with Industry Canada to prepare publications about Olympic opportunities. We are working with VANOC, the province of Quebec and all other provinces of Canada to make sure that they are well-informed about opportunities that will take place during the Olympics.
We are also working closely with the Canadian Tourism Commission. I work with Gordon Goodman, who is responsible for the 2010 Strategy for the Olympic Games. I was part of the committee for Vancouver's bid for the Olympic Games. It was not easy to get Vancouver 2010. There were economic committees that were created to ensure that the games would be held in Vancouver and Mr. Goodman was the person in charge of those committees. So it is partly thanks to him that the games will take place in Vancouver in 2010.
At the moment, we have a tourism strategy to encourage francophones from all communities in Canada to seize the opportunities given to them. We are working very closely with VANOC, with the other provinces, and with the coordinating group on economic development and employability, the RDEE, to ensure that we have a presence throughout Canada. That gives you some idea, but those are just a few small projects.
My purpose today was to discuss real projects related to VANOC and tourism.
Senator Tardif: Thank you for this excellent presentation. Even though it was brief, you did communicate your enthusiasm and the success of your initiatives.
You talked about your relationship with the Canadian Tourism Commission. Some people have said that there are not very many links between the Canadian Tourism Commission and the Fédération des francophones de la Colombie-Britannique. However, it seems that a relationship has been established with the Société de développement économique de la Colombie-Britannique. Could you tell us about that relationship? I got the impression that the Canadian Tourism Commission move did not have a positive impact on the francophone community. Can you indicate whether that is the case? If this is still coming, where do things stand now?
Mr. Cyr: Whenever a head office that employs many francophones moves to a centre such as Vancouver, it is a benefit for the francophone community. Often, francophones are only known for sugar pie. I think it is a good thing to have francophones who can discuss the economy — that is my case — and it is also a good thing to have francophones who can talk to decision-makers or people who can influence decision-making. The fact that we have francophones at a higher lever helps the French-language community.
I knew Mr. Goodman before he went to work for the Canadian Tourism Commission. That is why I was able to get in contact with the commission. It is also because of the relationship that the Société de développement économique had with Tourism B.C. and Vancouver Tourism. The minute they arrived here, we made sure to go meet with them right away to tell them about our existence.
Second, Mr. Campbell went to Paris a short while ago and he wanted to bring tourism advertising in French. He did not know there was any. Two days before he left, we gave him information in French that came from the Société de développement économique to ensure that he brought it with him. That moved the process forward a bit faster in our case.
Senator Tardif: It is a good thing that you are there. We were told that 90 francophones could have moved when the head office was relocated to Vancouver. However, only nine people came and not 19. Were any attempts made to recruit people from the francophone community of British Columbia in order to increase the number of officials who spoke French? Is French used as a working language at the Canadian Tourism Commission?
Mr. Cyr: Right now, up to 25 per cent of their employees are francophones. I do not remember seeing any specific ads in our networks. That does not mean there were not any. At the Société de développement économique de la Colombie-Britannique, people were aware of positions offered by the Canadian Tourism Commission. Here again, I am not in the best position to answer that question because we are aware of our activities because of our involvement in tourism. In our case, we produce 65,000 to 100,000 tourism guides every year. We distribute them in Quebec and in France. We work with the other western provinces to produce guides jointly in order to encourage people to visit Western Canada. We pretty much stay abreast of everything that is happening in terms of tourism.
Senator Tardif: When you go to the Canadian Tourism Commission are there people there who can greet you in French? Are their brochures in French?
Mr. Cyr: Their website is in both official languages. We mainly discuss what we can do together to encourage tourism from Europe in our province rather than talk to employees. We talk about strategies. When I talk to Mr. Goodman, we talk about the general strategy to make all of Canada known to francophones. We also often talk about what we could do to encourage people from Europe, be it France, Switzerland, Belgium or Holland, to come to Canada. We generally talk about strategies. I communicate directly with the people I know. I call them. I do not go through a receptionist.
Senator Tardif: You have a privileged relationship! I understand that you are essentially trying to do marketing. I am also concerned about people because this is a federal institution. Is the language of work of employees and service to the public respected, and is there an opportunity here to promote the francophone community locally?
Mr. Cyr: They have only been there one year. People with whom I work are very sympathetic to the francophonie and I see this is a very open culture. Generally speaking, people in the tourism sector are quite open; otherwise, they have a lot of trouble getting involved.
I am not aware of the internal aspect. There are many changes at the Canadian Tourism Commission. Only nine employees came with the commission, many people were hired, but there is a great deal of turnover right now. However, now that it has been a year, things are starting to stabilize. There is not yet an internal culture of what is being done, who does what, but that is understandable; it takes more than a year to establish a culture and its systems.
Senator Comeau: Mr. Cyr and I were classmates at the University of Moncton in the MBA program in the 1970s. There is a little bit of republican, of brayon and his accent. We worked in teams in the MBA program and Donald, Normand Dupuis from Fredericton and I were part of the same team. It is a very great pleasure to meet each other here, Donald.
A few years ago, I got a bit involved in the type of work you do with the Société de développement économique de la Colombie-Britannique. I understand that it is very difficult to be self-financing. You do a lot of work for the community and the province and it is almost impossible to obtain funds to be self-supporting. Having said that, I suppose one of your sources of funding is Western Economic Diversification?
Mr. Cyr: Yes.
Senator Comeau: Do you have trouble maintaining a fund that finances you adequately?
Mr. Cyr: With Western Economic Diversification, we have the support funding to offer French-language services for business throughout the province. We work very well with people from WD. They always consult us before setting up a program. In addition, we can submit a plan to them that is not necessarily very detailed or broken down, which enables us to modify our activities as we go along.
WD enables us to concentrate on certain sectors, not necessarily always the same ones. We have guaranteed funding until 2010, but we also work with Service Canada at the national level and obtain funds from them. Half my staff works full-time in the area of business services, tourism and investment. Part of our funds for community economic development come from Service Canada. There are economies of scale.
Senator Comeau: You were a friend of Mr. Goodman, who is part of the Canadian Tourism Commission and who was involved in obtaining the Olympic Games. I presume that when the Olympic Games organization got started, you immediately got a call from Mr. Goodman and you got involved directly?
Mr. Cyr: I became friends with him when I was on the bid committee. I was called for two reasons. The Fédération has done a great deal of work to ensure that the francophonie is present everywhere. The cultural aspects were already represented on the committee and WD works very hard to ensure that we were involved in many files. We work very closely with all anglophone partners. There are people from the ``future committee'' that asked that I be part of that. Many people are working on this. I sat on the committee that was responsible for getting a third runway for the airport and that was a $350-million project. My reputation on that file and the type of research work involved helped me get accepted in these types of positions.
Senator Comeau: You had already worked in that area?
Mr. Cyr: Yes.
[English]
Senator Jaffer: Thank you very much for coming here today. I was very pleased to hear that you are working quite actively to encourage francophones to come and work in our province.
The challenge we have is that if people immigrate to our country, we provide English training for a few years so that they can integrate into our province or our country. However, there does not seem to be the same kind of encouragement for francophones who move here from Quebec. There is not, as far as I know, any program to help those people become fluent in English or at least have a working knowledge of English so that they can find jobs easily. The same thing applies to anglophones who move to Quebec. I think that is a great challenge if we are going to encourage people from the francophone world to come and work here.
Have you worked on this issue? What do you see as the challenges for people who want to come here? The big one, of course, is language and how do we deal with that?
Mr. Cyr: You are absolutely right. When we see entrepreneurs, 60 per cent of our clients are from Quebec. The other 40 per cent are from France. We take a practical approach. We tell them that unless you do business in English, you will not be able to survive in British Columbia. It is that simple.
Michelle Rakotonaivo was responsible here for the immigration file and could talk to you more about that. In our case, we do see a lot of immigrants as clients. We exist, in part, because we help them. Many of them know how to do business, but they cannot speak the language very well, and it is simple terms like ``cash flow.''
[Translation]
They will say ``the treasurer.''
[English]
However, they do not know that means ``cash flow'' and they look silly from a banker's point of view because they say, ``Well, do you know anything about business?'' It is just that they do not understand the term.
One of our roles is to ensure that we help them present themselves very well in terms of positioning themselves in the market, how they present themselves with the banker. We provide that type of service. We also say to them, ``If you have got to work here or if you are going to be successful in business here, you have very little choice but to speak English.''
[Translation]
Senator Robichaud: If you want to do business here, you have to start by understanding and speaking English.
Mr. Cyr: That is also my opinion.
Senator Robichaud: How many people work in your shop?
Mr. Cyr: We have ten full-time people and three to five on contract. So that is a total of 13 to 15 people.
Senator Robichaud: Do people have an opportunity to work in French in your shop? Do they have to speak mainly English because of the clientele they deal with?
Mr. Cyr: We speak French 98 per cent of the time. Occasionally, it happens that we help anglophones, because we have exchanges of clients between ``business centers'' and the ``community futures.''
Senator Robichaud: Bravo! So did not have any trouble recruiting people to work for you?
Mr. Cyr: In my case, I never had this problem, because I have had the same staff for four years. I did not have to recruit anyone. I kept everyone. There has been no turnover.
Senator Murray: My question is with regard to the briefing notes provided to us by our research service. It mentions the coordinating group on economic development and employability, of which I assume you are a member. What is this network? Is it a government agency?
Mr. Cyr: It is an economic development corporation. We are a non-profit organization. I report to my board of directors, the coordinating group on economic development and employability, the RDÉE. This is a joint undertaking involving the government and the private sector. They have legal subcommittees made up of eight people from government and eight from the other provinces of Canada. The purpose of the RDÉE is to foster and create an economic space for the francophonie, for all francophones outside Quebec.
Senator Murray: Which federal department funds it?
Mr. Cyr: Service Canada.
Senator Murray: Service Canada is the Department of Public Works and Government Services.
Mr. Cyr: We would like to encourage Industry Canada to get involved as well. Through Service Canada, we can do projects that target the social economy. With Industry Canada, these would be projects of a more commercial nature. We would therefore like other departments to get involved. It is like the creation of the school boards many years ago. They were responsible for the education of the francophonie outside Quebec. We would like the same type of role for the RDÉE across Canada.
The Chairman: During your presentation, you talked about VANOC. If I understand you correctly, you give training workshops to volunteers. Was that on VANOC's request? Did you approach VANOC? Is this part of the services that are being developed for the Games?
Mr. Cyr: It was not VANOC. There are very careful not favor anyone. We approach them. We took the initiative and the western economic sector supported us.
We already have workshops in the four western provinces. Last April, I was wondering whether it would be possible to go further with the four western provinces. I met with the Chambers of Commerce of Montreal, Quebec City and several other cities. We asked them if they were interested in business opportunities in 2010. We see this as an opportunity for Quebeckers to do business in British Columbia rather than go to California. It is a lovely place. They showed great interest. They told us they had often been invited by representatives of VANOC or of ministries. The fact that francophones from British Columbia came to see them at home really piqued their interest all of a sudden.
When I saw that they were interested, I approached WD and Industry Canada to see if they were prepared to finance us. The province of Quebec offered funding for workshops in Quebec. Right now, the workshops are funded in part by Quebec and in part by Industry Canada.
[English]
Senator Murray: I might mention that Senator Comeau and I have been talking. We both agree that it would be a good idea for us to convene the Canadienne développement économique one of these days in Ottawa.
Mr. Cyr: We would appreciate that very much.
Senator Murray: We might have a discussion with them as to what they are doing.
[Translation]
The Chairman: That is a very good suggestion.
Mr. Cyr: We see potential right now just as we did for school boards. People are being educated, but now they are not finding any work. We invested 20 years of our lives and it is important to work in our language for the next 40 years. In our opinion, that is the responsibility of the network.
The Chairman: Could you repeat the name of the network please?
Mr. Cyr: The coordinating group on economic development and employability.
Senator Murray: It is in our briefing notes. It is Service Canada.
Senator Robichaud: Have other provinces shown an interest in the workshops in order to offer services for the 2010 Games?
Mr. Cyr: We are waiting to see what kind of reception it gets next week. Mr. Charest is waiting to see how many people attend, if there are more than 250 or 300, he will be there.
Senator Robichaud: All politicians do that.
Mr. Cyr: Our network has already began taking steps for the other provinces, but we are waiting to see what degree of success we have in Quebec to determine what kind of publicity they get in order to see if it is worth it?
Senator Robichaud: We will try to put a flea in the ear of people in New Brunswick, at least I will.
Mr. Cyr: I would really appreciate that because I am originally from New Brunswick.
Senator Robichaud: I though I detected a Brayon accent.
Mr. Cyr: Yes, I am originally from Edmunston.
The Chairman: Thank you for your testimony, Mr. Cyr.
[English]
We now have the honour to have before us the Mayor of Vancouver, Mr. Sam Sullivan.
Welcome, Mayor Sullivan. Unfortunately, the Mayor of Whistler could not be with us today. We know you have a very busy schedule, so without further ado, I will ask you to proceed with your presentation.
[Translation]
Sam Sullivan, Mayor of Vancouver, as an individual: Madam Chairman, I thank you and welcome you to the city of Vancouver. I would prefer to address you in French even if I have some difficulty. I hope you will forgive me.
Vancouver is a multicultural city. Most of our citizens speak a language other than English. Our multicultural communities are very proud of our country and of our policy on official languages and bilingualism. Many of the employees of the City of Vancouver speak French. We will encourage these employees to become volunteers for the Olympic Games and the Paralympics.
We are very proud of the fact that the Olympic Games and Paralympics will be bilingual. We are going to work very hard to provide services in French. We have offered French language courses to city employees.
Nothing is definite right now, but my objective is to have a 311 telephone service during the 2010 Olympics and Paralympics. This system operates 24 hours a day seven days a week and several languages can be used including French. A decision will be made within a few weeks. If the response is positive, when they arrive in Vancouver, francophones will be able to use this call 311 to obtain services and information in French. We have a website in Vancouver and we will develop information in French for that system.
The francophone communities of Vancouver are very active and participate a great deal in city services. We will be holding a meeting soon. I invited some of these communities to participate in a meeting in order to promote the French language in our city.
The current situation in Vancouver is a great concern to me. We must do more to promote the French language in Vancouver. It is very difficult to attract companies to set up their headquarters in Vancouver. We do not have enough francophone citizens. It is therefore very important to us and to our economy to promote French in Vancouver.
Senator Jaffer: We are very pleased to welcome you here today. I am a bit biased since you are the mayor of my city.
[English]
Mayor, we are talking about the Olympics and how we get things done for the Olympics. All of us here were very proud that you represented us in Turin. It was a very proud moment that reflected our value system.
However, it was also a very sad moment. You made us proud, but the closing ceremony did not reflect our two official languages in the way it should have. Today, we want to have the beginnings of a conversation with you, and hopefully we will have many formal and even more informal communications.
We are a country with two official languages, and if people leave this country after the upcoming Olympics thinking we are not promoting the two languages, it will be a very bad mark against us. Therefore, you and I, who both come from B.C., have a bigger job to do than my colleagues to make sure we do not let people down.
There are some things in which we would like you to play a very active role. One of them, which we heard this morning, is that perhaps you can appoint someone to work with the federation. A knowledge base of what is needed already exists, and I would like to hear what you think of how we and the federation can work with you so that we truly are seen as a bilingual country.
[Translation]
Mr. Sullivan: I already mentioned the multicultural communities of our city support our country's bilingualism policy. It is very important for them to have their language in Canada. Citizens support this effort to promote the French language.
I spoke with Mr. John Ralston Saul and he decided to help us develop an action plan for the French language. I asked a few people present here to participate in a meeting for that project. I do want to do what you suggested.
[English]
Senator Jaffer: I know your time is short time today, mayor, so I do not know if you have had an opportunity to read Lise Bissonnette's report. We can make sure you get a copy as to what she saw was lacking in Turin regarding language.
Also, what would be very important is if you could also make sure in the committees that exist, especially through City Hall, that there is a certain percentage of French-speaking people on those committees so that the language is always in the forefront of everyone.
[Translation]
Mr. Sullivan: We now have five languages in Vancouver. We have translation for all these languages, but translation into French is not one of them and I am embarrassed by that. The Olympics and Paralympics will help to correct that situation.
Our objective is to respond to your request and if we can get more francophones on every committee that would help.
[English]
Senator Jaffer: Lastly, I want my colleagues here to know that this mayor is very committed to languages. He even speaks the Punjabi language. I have heard him say that, so he is committed.
Mayor, as a result of your commitment to languages, we are looking to you to make sure that French is very much in the forefront. What often upsets me is people say, ``Yes, but Vancouver is a bilingual city. We speak Cantonese. We speak Punjabi.'' However, our official languages are French and English, and it is up to us to make sure people do not forget that.
[Translation]
Senator Comeau: I thank you for giving us some of your valuable time.
It is true that are many languages other then French in British Columbia. However, it is very important that people know there are francophones in British Columbia and that linguistic duality is one of our great assets. We often hear, and it is often said in the media, in the newspapers, that there is English Canada and there is Quebec.
One of the institutions that say this most often is Radio-Canada, the national television network that it supposed to reach all Canadians from coast to coast. They often refer to English Canada and Quebec. This is terribly frustrating when French Canadians hear this, be they Acadians or Franco-Columbians. I believe that this comment comes from sovereignists to try to give the impression that there are only francophones in Quebec and that the rest of Canada is anglophone.
However, there are over 270,000 Franco-Columbians and that is quite a significant number.
British Columbia does not have any legislation to protect francophones or to advance their cause in this province. I know that an agreement has been signed with the federal government, but there is not any legislation yet in British Columbia. As mayor, would you like to see this kind of legislation?
Mr. Sullivan: First, I would like to answer the other questions. Every day, I watch French CBC Television, and that helps me understand French better. I watch the news on that network. I am very pleased that we have this program in Vancouver. We also have many parents here who want their children to be in French immersion. That is very popular in Vancouver. I would like us to have an agreement to promote French. The 2010 Olympics and Paralympics give us this opportunity. I know that many people resist because they are afraid of the cost. But I hope that we will get this agreement in British Columbia.
Senator Comeau: It is my understanding that the level of interest for immersion programs in British Columbia is the highest in Canada?
Mr. Sullivan: Yes.
Senator Comeau: That is certainly an indication of the level of support from the public. I can even tell you that in Nova Scotia, a few years ago, we would never have thought that anglophones would support immersion programs and yet right now in that province, the demand for French immersion programs exceeds the supply.
I think the interest level among the English-speaking population all across Canada is on the rise, and it is time to take advantage of that interest, not just among anglophones, but also among those who are not of anglophone origin. There is definitely an interest.
Mr. Sullivan: Adults do know it is very important for their children to understand another language and to become a better Canadian.
Senator Comeau: Bilingual and trilingual.
Mr. Sullivan: It is good for survival.
Senator Tardif: Good morning, Your Worship. We are very happy that you are here today. I would like to thank you for your support for linguistic duality in our country. I was very happy to hear you say you wanted to promote French in Vancouver and were interested in encouraging more headquarters to move to Vancouver.
However, I was surprised to hear you say you were having a hard time finding employees capable of working in French in Vancouver. I also heard the Fédération franco-colombienne indicate that there were lots of people willing to work in French. We were told that there are 270,000 French-speaking people. With students coming from French schools as well as immersion programs, that creates a whole pool of people who can use French. We often forget to call on those people and go looking outside our communities. We should focus on promoting bilingual job opportunities locally. Not enough value is placed on bilingualism in economic markets and the potential to find work.
I think the Olympics gives us an excellent opportunity to call on this pool of people able to use French. I would like to know your reaction to this.
As you also had the chance to speak with people from Calgary, who in 1988 — I do not know if anyone here was involved — organized the Calgary Olympics. I know that in Calgary, in terms of official languages, there was some success, it was well regarded, and people often said that Calgary had done a good job in terms of official languages. There was a positive image and positive spin-offs for French in Alberta following those Olympics.
Mr. Sullivan: I met with Mr. Bronconnier, the mayor, but I did not speak to him about promoting French. But that is a good idea, and the next time we talk, I am going to ask him what the spin-offs from that project were.
In the past, when I have spoken to business people about headquarters, they have told me it was hard to find employees. I hope it will be increasingly easy for us to find people to fill these new jobs. I think the situation is gradually changing.
Senator Tardif: Do you have any links along these lines with the Canadian Tourism Commission, which has just moved to Vancouver?
Mr. Sullivan: Yes. I asked them that question, and they told me it was getting easier to recruit employees, although there are still some problems. But they told me the situation was improving.
Senator Losier-Cool: Thank you for being here today, Your Worship. I appreciate the fact that you want to promote French for the city of Vancouver. I have no doubt you will succeed. I think the 2010 Olympics will be an excellent opportunity, as Senator Jaffer and Ms. Lise Bissonnette have already said.
You have surely read that CTV network got the broadcasting contract for the 2010 Olympics. It is neither CBC nor Radio-Canada.
Last week, CTV announced that cable carriers, including RDS, will be able to broadcast in French. Mr. Graham Fraser, the Commissioner of Official Languages, told us in committee that CTV was predominantly anglophone, and that people who did not have cable would have problems because they would not get any French channels.
I think it would look good, in your promotion program, to say yes, CTV will offer that. But there is more to it than just offering; it also has to be available. I will give you an example: here in this hotel — and there will be thousands of people in lots of other hotels in Vancouver — there is a list of French channels, but only one you can actually get. They do not have RDI.
These are minor details that will help to promote French and improve your relations with sponsors, hotels, where services are provided, to ensure those channels are available.
I just want to strongly encourage you in your dealings with hotels and businesses to get them to provide the services in French and project that image.
Mr. Sullivan: In this hotel?
[English]
Senator Losier-Cool: Where the public will be, where the athletes will be, it is okay that CTV says, ``Yes, cable is offered,'' but if public places, like in a hotel, do not give out those stations, we also have to make arrangements with them. I say ``hotels'' mostly because this is where the athletes, the families and the fans will be.
I do not know if I have made myself clear, but sometimes it is in the details.
[Translation]
Mr. Sullivan: You said the 2010 Olympics and Paralympics in Vancouver is an excellent opportunity to raise public awareness. We have to provide services in French. We may be able to develop a list of all the hotels so that they provide French programming. All stations and all places have to provide programs and services in French. At our next meeting, we can develop that list.
[English]
Senator Losier-Cool: One small detail, but a very important one that will reach many people.
[Translation]
Mr. Sullivan: Thanks to the 311 system and other services provided in hotels and tourist spots, you can live quite easily in French in Vancouver. I prefer it that way.
Senator Murray: Just before our meeting, I advised the mayor to wear this thing because there would probably be questions in French. His answer was:
[English]
``I am going to fake it in French anyway.'' He has done far better than that and I congratulate him and thank him. Everyone at this table, at one point or other in our lives, has had to learn a second language, and in my case and probably in Senator Jaffer's case, it was French. In the case of the other members of the committee, it was English. We therefore have some understanding of what all that involves. and it is wonderful. We greatly appreciate the courtesy of the witness, who comes here and is prepared to testify in both of our official languages.
[Translation]
I need a bit of clarification. Senator Jaffer mentioned the report of the Grand Témoin, Ms. Lise Bissonnette. Ms. Bissonnette did identify shortcomings and serious problems with language in Torino, where French was subordinated to English and Italian, the language of the host country. But I should point out that Ms. Bissonnette also gave VANOC top marks. So far, she says everything is going well language-wise and with VANOC's activities and especially its communications. Everything is being done fully in keeping with official languages and bilingualism. We have to do much better than the people in Torino, given that the official languages of both the Olympics and Canada are French and English.
Mayor Sullivan, I would like to know whether you intend, at the Olympics, to provide services not just in English and French, but in other languages. Will other languages be used at the 2010 Olympics? And if so, what languages?
Mr. Sullivan: The program has not yet been created, but we have a fund for special projects for the Olympics and Paralympics. I would like one of those projects to be the provision of services in other languages for athletes and tourists. We have a lot of residents who speak other languages and we have a lot of resources in Vancouver. We are going to encourage residents to participate as volunteers or to work for the Olympics. I think we will be ready to receive people from all over the world.
I have to say that thanks to CBC and RDI as well as other channels in Vancouver, I am able to watch a number of shows in French. Every Saturday, I watch the cartoons with my dictionary, and that helps me a lot.
Senator Murray: That is one way of learning not only a language but also a culture.
Senator Robichaud: Mayor Sullivan, surely you watch Cornemuse occasionally, a show I have had the opportunity to watch with my grand-children. I find it quite interesting.
It is comforting to hear you assure us that the French fact will not be respected just because it is a requirement, but that you see a lot more to it because it is really an asset for the city and residents of Vancouver to learn this language. A previous witness said in reference to the French fact that if more people learned French, that might draw people and companies that can contribute to the city's economy.
That comforts me because at one point I thought attempts would be made to convince a lot of people that it was good and it should be done. Until now, it has not had to be done. You are convincing us that it is going to be done. I would encourage you because as mayor of a city like Vancouver, you have a leadership role to play in this area and I can see you doing a good job of it. I am really encouraged and would encourage you to keep it up and do not give up.
Mr. Sullivan: That is very nice of you to say. We have to work hard to improve the situation, which is imperfect, in Vancouver. We still have a lot of things to do in Vancouver, a lot of work to do to promote French. But I am very involved in the process. It is an asset for us, you are right. We have to convey the potential and opportunities. It is good for the economy and for culture; it is good for Canada. We have the Olympics and the Paralympics, the Canadian Games. It is absolutely important for us to have the Games in both official languages of Canada.
The Chairman: Honourable senators, on your behalf, I would like to very sincerely thank Mayor Sullivan for taking the time to meet with us today. There is no doubt whatsoever that what you have told us has really encouraged us.
[English]
We also understand why Senator Jaffer is so proud to have you as the Mayor of the City of Vancouver.
[Translation]
Thank you very much, Your Worship.
Mr. Sullivan: The further people are from Vancouver, the more they like me.
Senator Losier-Cool: One of our Senate colleagues was Mayor of Vancouver. Perhaps one day we will be fortunate enough to have you with us in the Senate of Canada.
The Chairman: Our last witness this morning represents the Chambre de commerce franco-colombienne. He is the president, Mr. Pierre Senay.
Mr. Senay, you have the floor. If I understand correctly, you have a presentation of about 10 minutes, which would be followed by a period of questions from senators.
Pierre Senay, President, Chambre de commerce Franco-Colombienne: Thank you, Madam Chairman, for inviting me, as president of the Chambre de commerce Franco-Colombienne, to discuss the issues on the agenda. You invited me from Vancouver.
The Chambre de commerce Franco-Colombienne was founded in 1983. It is a not-for-profit organization with a mandate to develop and improve commercial relations among French-speaking business people in British Columbia. However, my presentation is also based on my experience as a federal public servant who has held bilingual positions in Quebec, in the National Capital Region and in Vancouver, and also as a resident involved in the francophone community of British Columbia.
With respect to the first item on the agenda, my presentation will not deal specifically with the Canadian Tourism Commission or Veterans Affairs Canada. I would leave it to people who are better informed to report on those specific situations.
I am going to focus on the principle of establishing headquarters outside the National Capital Region and the potential impact of those measures on the development of official language minority communities and the promotion of linguistic duality. I will begin by saying that Vancouver's Chambre de commerce Franco-Colombienne supports the arrival of any institution that could boost the region's economic activity and to increase the number of people working in French.
That said we realize that the economic impact of such a measure depends on the respective size of the organization, the region and the host official language minority community.
With respect to the language of work implementation principle adopted by the federal government in June 2005, is it enough to protect the language rights of employees in the event of headquarters of federal institutions moving from a bilingual region to a unilingual region? Not in my opinion, and I will explain why.
The Official Languages Act stems from, among other things, the federal government's goal of enhancing the vitality and supporting the development of English and French linguistic minority communities and of fostering for recognition and use of English and French in Canadian society. These goals have to be considered by government both from the view point of government and from the view point of the impact on the employees' decision whether or not to follow their jobs.
I think that just considering at the strict legal framework around the rights of employees would overlook the actual obligations toward official language minorities and that extra steps should be taken to meet the expectations set out in the preamble to the act. Do not forget, employees who transfer are part of the community.
In principle, central institutions of the federal government located anywhere should be subject to the same requirements as they would be if the were located in the National Capital Region. It would be desirable for the head of the institution to be the official languages champion within the organization. That would make it easier for their colleagues to recognize the value added brought by bilingual employees and would promote the full exercise of their language rights.
I would also suggest that the number and percentage of bilingual positions in an organization moving to a region be maintained, increased or at the very least subject to a minimum in order to promote the concept of linguistic duality within the institution and to continue providing employees working in both official languages the option of working in the language of their choice.
At the institutional level, the official language performance evaluation should be done on an ongoing basis so that management can have the benefit of the advice of independent evaluators on achieving these important goals for Canada, despite the relative isolation. You can see the online evaluations done by the Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages.
Finally, the availability of working tools in French is still an issue. The current storage and processing capacity of computers should make it possible to choose between booting up in French or in English so that available computers can be adapted to the preferences of employees rather than limiting the availability of services. I think doing things like that would promote the protection of employees' language rights in the event of future moves of head offices and would also help to protect them in places that are fully bilingual for some.
When an institution moves, an employee's choice to go along with it depends on various factors.
An employee in a bilingual position has already gone through the first of two stages leading to assimilation. The first stage involves learning a second language, whereas the other stage leads to abandoning the first language. In that sense, the employee is joining almost all of the members of official language minority communities. And here I am introducing the very important topic of assimilation. Bilingual employees have to make a choice, linguistically speaking, between keeping and giving up their language. When it comes to giving up their language, it is rare for this phenomenon to occur within the life spend of a single person, because only a minority of people manage to forget a language they formerly had a complete command of. Thus if it is better to see linguistic assimilation as a process that unfolds over the course of at least two generations.
My theory is that an important consideration in an employee's decision to relocate and possibly integrate into the community is his or her impression of the extent of assimilation faced by the host official language minority community.
Another important factor in making this decision is the extent to which the people think the community will ensure that its rights are respected. The intention of Parliament is not always enough to guarantee respect for rights. The courts were established to resolve disputes under the legislation, including those having to do with the exercise of powers of the executive and legislative branches of government. That is exactly what happened in British Columbia when francophone parents had to demand the right to manage and control French-language schools. The Court Challenges program has just been abolished, and this will have an impact on the ability of communities to defend their rights, and, consequently, the confidence employees have in their ability to pass on their language and culture to the next generation in a minority community, and to combat linguistic assimilation.
Another important factor for employees with children or planning to have children is the availability of early childhood and education services. Support for developing these services is an important factor in establishing the confidence of such employees in the resources available in these minority communities.
It should be noted that the feeling of being a minority is not experienced in the same way in all communities throughout the country. In British Columbia, the francophone community is scattered throughout the province, making it virtually invisible both to others and to other members of their own community, as in the case of newcomers. However, there are federal government service centres that provide service in both official languages. These offices should be places where people from a minority community can meet. But the various federal institutions have designated different offices for the services. As a result, rather than bringing members of the minority community together in a place that would be their own, people are scattered around in different locations and this reinforces their feelings of being a minority and does not promote the development of related services in French.
Those are few examples of the state of the host community, and some suggestions about steps that could be taken to promote the government's objectives. For the employees themselves, we note that people adopt behaviours that do not attract any negative consequences. The insidious long-term results of that choice in the area of language of work is linguistic slippage, and this will have an impact on their decision about moving with their job or remaining in their region.
It follows that the impact of the relocation of a federal institution to a minority community cannot be evaluated in the short term or merely on the basis of the provisions of the Official Languages Act regarding the employees themselves. It should also take into account the assimilation factors present in the host community over a period of at least two generations.
It is therefore crucial, if we are to achieve the government's objectives, to help establish a climate favourable to the development of the two languages in a minority community.
I would remind you that we are not opposed to the introduction of bilingual positions on the part of the federal institutions in our region. Jobs that require the use of the minority language will be helpful for employment in the community and will attract newcomers to strengthen it further.
However, I must emphasize that linguistic assimilation rates in minority communities are very high and that it is not good enough to send in reinforcements and to look at the current situation only. The future depends on our determination to implement corrective action over the long term. We ill only see results and be able to evaluate them over a number of generations.
Let's move to the second question on the agenda, consideration for the official languages in the 2010 Olympics Games. The Chambre de commerce franco-colombienne of Vancouver supports the 2010 Olympics in Greater Vancouver and Whistler. There are subcontracting opportunities for the francophone business community in B.C. for major contractors involve in the infrastructure projects. There will be even more opportunities during the goods and services supply phases at the time of the Games. We appreciate the efforts and the stated intentions of the various players to take somewhat into account Canada's linguistic duality in the supply process, even though we would like to see a completely bilingual process.
Similarly, we hope that the members of the francophone community here, rather than people from outside, will be hired to do direct and indirect jobs that make use of their language skills in the context of the Games.
On behalf of the board of directors of the Société Maison de la francophonie of Vancouver, which I also chair, I would like to say that we support the Games and we hope that our institution can make an active contribution to the visibility of Canada's two official languages and the francophone community here during the Games.
The key role played by the Maison in promoting a synergy among a critical mass of francophones working in French in Vancouver promotes the development and integration of the francophone community. Its geographical location, the major roads in the area and the availability of public transit help make the Maison a special meeting place for francophones in the city of Vancouver. In this regard, special activities will take place to highlight the abilities and vitality of the francophone community of Vancouver and Canada, and the Maison hopes to offer these activities in its own facilities.
We hope that the Maison will be a place where francophones can meet during the Games and afterwards it will continue to serve not only francophones from this region, but also francophones from elsewhere who will have come to know Vancouver because of the Games.
I would say that the only way the official languages will be taken into account in the organization of 2010 Olympic Games will be if we have the support of directors at all levels. We already have some indications along these lines.
Any possible problems with documentation and signs will only appear during the implementation phase particularly if deadlines and budgets are tight. Have you ever been in a ``bateau à coque''? That is just one example of a sign in the Vancouver region. You see why francophones are sometimes disillusioned. By the way, the English version of ``bateaux à coque'' is floatplanes.
The human and technical resources required to ensure that documents and signs are perfect in both official languages are available in the country, and I would even say they are available here in British Columbia. To reach these objectives, we must identify and adopt best practices, acknowledge the significance of the job and particularly not allow financial resources to go to other priorities.
With respect to reception and other services, the challenges are huge. British Columbia is open as regards relations with the francophone community and offers services in a number of other languages, and all that is very good.
There are over a quarter of the million people who speak French in B.C., and the province has the highest number of students in immersion programs. So there should be enough people available for jobs and volunteer work to guarantee a certain level of service, but mobilizing them could be a challenge. Adapted procedures and communication tools could make it easier to offer proper service in French. We will have to rely on technology.
With regard to the production of documents in real time, it is important to understand that we cannot rely solely on translation services. The contribution of employees who can work in the various languages in which the electronic bulletin boards, documents, websites and press releases will have to be produced will be essential to ensure quality.
The objective of promoting the development of the minority official language community will be achieved by carrying out sustainable infrastructure projects that will highlight the cultural and linguistic heritage as well as the contribution of francophones to Canadian society during and after the games.
Although the sports facilities and other infrastructure built for the games will benefit both francophones and other area residents, that does not mean the community's development will be enhanced.
The francophone community needs projects to promote dialogue and project the image of a vibrant community, one which fully contributes to Canada's wealth and linguistic duality.
The image and dialogue have to be geared to local communities, but also to the growing number of tourists who will visit the area in the next few years and gain an impression of Canada. The creation of spaces where people can meet, the delivery of services and French cultural life in Vancouver would be a lasting legacy of the games, a significant contribution to the development of the Franco-Columbian community.
Madam Chairman, I have come to the end of my remarks and I would be pleased to answer senators' questions.
Senator Tardif: I thank you for your excellent presentation. Truly, it was very clear, very well thought out and presented. I want to congratulate you and your team!
I really appreciated your presentation on how moving federal institutions affects the development of the francophone community in British Columbia. I believe you have raised something we had not yet heard before, namely that the power of assimilation as a factor that people take into account when they have to decide whether they will move or not. Assimilation is also a factor for the host community. In fact, I believe it is a very important factor.
If I understand correctly — and I would like you to clarify this — you said that moving additional head offices from bilingual regions to unilingual regions is not in and of itself a bad thing. You find that doing so would promote the vitality of francophone host communities, that such moves would open up potential French language positions, but could also lead to the assimilation of people moving to those regions. You say that if francophones move to Vancouver today, they and their children will be assimilated within two generations; that would contribute to the assimilation of francophones rather than increase the pool of francophones and improve the community's vitality.
In your view, it would be a good thing if we could provide additional measures to consolidate the community. You say that we have to act not only to strictly apply section 5 of the Official Languages Act — that doing so would be insufficient — but that we also have to take into account section 4, communications with the public, section 5, language of work, and section 7, the development of the minority francophone community. You also say that we have to work together to conduct promotion activities and provide additional measures to ensure that things work smoothly. Is that correct?
Mr. Senay: I thank you. Absolutely, that is correct. Allow me to make the following analogy: you could add water to a pool, but if there is a leak, it will never get filled. In short, do not waste your time adding water to a leaky pool.
I am not saying that assimilation exists only in cases where head offices are moved or what have you. This is something we have to deal with every day here. Earlier, I heard a number of comments, including the fact that five languages are used at Vancouver's city hall, but that French is not one of them. When I first came to Vancouver, I remember having received a notice in English — I am ready to accept that the city is unilingual — but on the back, there was a note written in eight or ten languages, which stated that if you did not understand English, you could fill out a request for a translation. Today, such notices are translated into French, which is at least a step in the right direction. I do not know whether the letter I sent to city hall made a difference. I am convinced that I made a small contribution, but that I was not the only one.
That is the state of things. Democracy is based on the lowest common denominator. I will give you an example: people pay for cable to have access to TV5, which is the channel the television at the main entrance of their building is tuned to, and loose that service. The consequences are not that significant because the francophones, who are in the minority in the building, cause less trouble.
Assimilation involves all kinds of such situations.
For example, in Vancouver, the Musique Plus Channel is not currently available on cable. Where do young francophones turn? The channel is not even available for an additional fee. Once Telus begins to offer its IP television service, Musique Plus will become one of the paying services and people will be able to subscribe to it. However, it is not currently available. In addition to pressure from the street and from their peers, young people currently have very few ways to identify with the francophone community.
Technology will help us improve the situation and I think we can be optimistic about that while taking measures to that end.
Senator Tardif: What can the Canadian Tourism Commission do to better address the needs and concerns that you have shared with us?
Mr. Senay: I do not have inside knowledge of the Canadian Tourism Commission, but I do know an employee who works there; she was a member of the Chambre de commerce before working at the Canadian Tourism Commission. She was not one of the employees who moved, but was already living here and took the position. This person works to encourage the Commission's bilingual employees to take part in francophone community life.
Last week, the Chambre de commerce held a luncheon where the speaker was the director of the all-news network in French. Five people from the Canadian Tourism Commission attended that event.
We therefore are starting to see efforts to integrate employees, but the level of service provided by a head office does not target the general public; it deals with organizations, including organizations from outside the province and country. This type of organization is needed, but has very little direct impact on people's daily lives.
The only solution would be for bilingual employees to become active in the community, and that is a matter of personal choice.
Senator Tardif: I would have other questions, but I will give the floor to someone else.
Senator Jaffer: I would like to take this opportunity to invite my colleagues to the Maison for supper. Not today, but another day, I will let you know. It is a great place for supper.
Mr. Senay, I am concerned about your presentation. I hope you are using the word ``assimilation'' very carefully.
[English]
Why are you using the word ``assimilation'' and not ``integration''? I am sure you have done that with a lot of thought. This is a troubling paper for me. I am worried and will think a lot about what you have said, but why are you not using the word ``integration''?
Mr. Senay: People can be integrated in a community and work in the community, have friends in the community. They still remain a person, an individual with a thought process and a way of expressing themselves. Normally, francophones who come here will integrate into the community — and I can give you many examples from different areas in B.C. — which means they will have to work in English; they will have to live in English; they will have to shop in English.
They integrate very well. They do not assimilate. It is the next generation where we will see the influence of parents remaining very strong until the kids leave the house to go to daycare, to go to school, to go to work.
One very personal dimension to this point is a story about a nine year old who moved from, not Berry Street, but from the northern part of Montreal to a community where they were the only French family around for a mile around. After arriving, speaking only three words of English — table, chair and ketchup — when the time came to go to high school, he requested from his parents to go to an English high school because it was closer. That is where his friends went and there were more options, et cetera. Now that is not a case from B.C. That is my personal case from the West Island of Montreal.
The threat of assimilation portrays a Canada of many years ago, but it has evolved very much thanks to multiculturalism and other things. However, if the threat is so strong in that kind of environment, what is it here? I can give the names of youth who can still express themselves in French, reluctantly and with difficult constructions. They will speak English with French words. That is the second generation.
What will the third generation be? It will be assimilated.
When I relate these facts, I am not relating from the top down. We are doing everything and are having success. I am relating from the bottom up, saying, what is the reality on the street? The reality on the street is what people perceive when they make decisions, for instance, to move to Vancouver or to move to Charlottetown or Shédiac or elsewhere. The people in New Brunswick have had very much difficulty, but I think their success in the face of assimilation has been greater than ours here. I think B.C. has one of the highest rates of assimilation.
Senator Jaffer: I have to tell you that your presentation has been very sobering and takes all the optimism out of our languages. However, the reason we are here is that we do not give up. We want to make sure that our two languages stay because it is not just about language; it is about heritage. It is about who we are. Multiculturalism exists and is accepted, but we have our two official languages. Obviously there is still a lot of work to do.
As Chair of the Chamber of Commerce, what are you doing to sensitize sponsors that the two languages be used when products are produced? Are you involved in that at all?
Mr. Senay: La Chambre de commerce Franco-Colombienne is a very small organization. It once was much more lively and had over 100 members, and then some priorities came about and an organization called the Société de développement économique was created and has been very good for the community. Therefore, a lot of the energy that was in the chamber of commerce was diverted to the society. A few other things happened and membership in the chamber of commerce dwindled, but it is just now coming back up.
It is essentially a way for francophone people to maintain ties and to exchange ideas. We do not present products, per se. We say to people who call us that, ``If you come to B.C., you will have English-speaking customers. You will have customers who speak English but who are not necessarily of English background. It will be difficult to maintain your own language and your own culture, so join our community; come with us.''
We would love to work with the Board of Trade, for instance, but we are not there yet. We are not ready to go back, but we will.
We are members of the B.C. Chamber of Commerce and, in that sense, we do exchange at that level and we are members of the federation.
[Translation]
Senator Losier-Cool: I understand your last comment on the issue of assimilation.
What motivates you to continue? I would have liked to ask the question to the representatives of the Fédération des francophones de la Colombie-Britannique. Is it the affiliation that prompts organizations, or the contrary, organizations that prompt affiliation?
Mr. Senay: Personally, what motivates me, is who I am. I am a francophone. I never attended English school. I went to Thomas high school, in Pointe-Claire, and things went just fine.
When I wanted to become an air traffic controller, the training was only offered in English. I was at the Montreal Regional Control Centre at the time of the French language crisis in the air transportation sector. I therefore also experienced many things at that time.
In order to remain true to myself, I had to stay motivated through a series of events. The continuing education courses I took at university, and elsewhere, have certainly helped to keep me motivated.
Senator Losier-Cool: Francophone school boards were created 10 years ago. In the past two or three years, Simon Fraser University and the University of Vancouver have been offering certain courses in French. Have you noticed a difference in the past 10 years?
Prior to that, some parents would not have moved to Vancouver or British-Columbia, because their children could not have attended a French school. Is this less the case today, after 10 years?
Mr. Senay: I will let school board representatives fill you in on that specific issue.
In the community, having a number of training programs offered in French helps maintain the language and also builds up hope, a brighter future and a sense of belonging.
Next January, Simon Fraser University will launch its doctorate program in education in French. The program's target market will not be the average Canadian. However, the initiative opens new doors and gives us hope that we will succeed in building, one step at a time, the ladder that will help us reach our objectives.
Senator Losier-Cool: Part VII of the Official Languages Act speaks of enhancing vitality. Where does the Maison de la Francophonie in Vancouver receive its funding from?
Mr. Senay: At the outset, the Maison de la francophonie received funding from the federal and provincial governments — but not without its share of problems. The Maison de la francophonie is owned by the resident associations.
Senator Losier-Cool: Are these all francophone associations?
Mr. Senay: It is a limited partnership. Consequently, to be a member of the Maison de la francophonie, you also have to meet the federation's criteria.
People invest a given amount and cannot withdraw the Maison's capital gain. That value has to remain invested in the Maison. If the Maison is ever sold, the proceeds have to be used to replace the Maison or ploughed back into a charitable organization.
No one is talking about leaving. Rather, we are considering keeping the Maison as a gathering place. This centre is one of two places, in the Greater Vancouver area, where there is a critical mass of people that can work in French — the other being located in Maillardville, about 40 minutes from Vancouver, far from the major centres.
The Maison de la francophonie project dates back over 15 years, and is an ongoing project. It has survived against all odds and is prepared to play a greater role. The Maison was initially designed to house offices, not to serve as a public space. Today, the community is ready to have its own public space, a place for francophones to display their culture and mother tongue and to attract people.
We spoke earlier about the Café Salade de Fruits, and senator Jaffer invited you to go there and taste the best mussels and fries in town. The Café's clientele is not only francophone. Most clients are from the neighbourhood and are either Asian or anglophone. This enterprise contributes to the promotion and growth of the Francophonie. There are an increasing number of such opportunities.
You talked about television. When I visited Whistler, I was able to watch Radio-Canada in my hotel room, but the broadcast was from Montreal. People do not realize there is a francophone community in British Columbia. There is no regional francophone news broadcast. On top of that, there is a three-hour time difference. Consequently, viewers wanting to watch our program might miss it.
Things are not that easy for francophones here, especially those living in exogamous marriages. This is something that a number of you have experienced on an almost daily basis.
The Chairman: People are talking about the 2010 Olympic Games as an ideal opportunity to promote both of our official languages, including French in a minority context. Given all the partners, agreements and people involved, do you believe it is fair to expect that, in concrete terms, the Games could be the ideal opportunity to promote both official languages? If so, what would be the most important elements we should immediately be dealing with, that is., tomorrow morning?
Mr. Senay: It might seem straight to say that we have to start dealing with the Games legacy today. We can consider the Games from various angles. They will be two weeks of frenzied activity. And nothing can change that fact. We will have to complete all stages of preparation. These stages will be opportunities to do business but also to prepare for the post-Games period.
People will become acquainted with Vancouver and some will form an image of Canada based on what they see in Vancouver.
Currently, there is no identifiable francophone face to this city. There is the Maison de la francophonie, Cartier Street, Montcalm Street, Québec Street, and some restaurants and boutiques. Such places, however, can be found in all major cities throughout the world. Vancouver does not distinguish itself from other cities in that regard. We have to be able to welcome people in a francophone environment and give francophones a place to welcome the world. Such a place can be built today in preparation for tomorrow.
Can we get things done on time? We can definitely do part of the work, but I am not sure we can complete it. But that is what we need to project our linguistic duality. The bare minimum, i.e., publishing press releases in French, will be taken care of. Whether that job will be properly done or not is up to the persons responsible. We are ready to become full partners in the pursuit of that objective.
Senator Robichaud: I would like to follow up on what you just said. The current plans do not contain your suggestions, namely a public space for the francophonie in Vancouver, is that correct? Of course, press releases will be in both official languages. However, there is no place where francophones can feel at home, and converse with each other in French?
Mr. Senay: I am not aware of such a plan. Mr. Furlong, who is the chief executive officer of the organizing committee, visited the Maison de la Francophonie and was much impressed by it. He said that he would be willing to organize events there.
The Maison de la francophonie dreams of becoming a public space. We have contacted Mayor Sullivan and told him about our plans to turn the Maison into a francophone public space in Vancouver — or one with a francophone character. We should make no mistake about it —, not kill ourselves, because one day this neighbourhood will be recognized as the French quarter. Besides, we could not have had such a space before the Maison moved into its 7th avenue location. However, all kinds of complications occurred, which is why the Maison was established in its current location.
We started talking about the project with Mayor Sullivan and various authorities who could help us, but we are only in the first stages.
Senator Robichaud: Are you confident?
Mr. Senay: Confidence is something we do have.
Senator Robichaud: People in minority situations cannot afford to give up. We always have to keep on going, knock on doors, be vigilant and take advantage of all the opportunities that are given to us to promote our cause.
Do francophones in the area remain hopeful that the francophonie will survive? Do people tell you it is a lost cause, or do they increasingly believe that we must continue, and that the results achieved will have been worth the effort?
Mr. Senay: That is a big question.
Senator Robichaud: Indeed.
Mr. Senay: Are you asking me to speak on behalf of other people?
Senator Robichaud: I do not ask you to speak for them. I would only like to hear your impressions of the overall mood of francophones.
Mr. Senay: There are a number of people who believe in and are involved in the Fédération, the Société Maillardville Unie, the Société de développement économique and all the local and provincial organizations. There are also organizations in other parts of the province, and people believe in them. Many take advantage of the services that these organizations provide.
I met a francophone, living in an exogamous marriage, who was told that there has been French theatre in Vancouver for the past 25 years. The person has been living in Vancouver for the past 25 years and was not aware of that fact!
We have to find ways to bring these people together. We have to give them the tools and the infrastructure so that they can meet each other and rekindle the flame that is inside them.
Senator Robichaud: Do you think the 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Games are the opportunity to rekindle that feeling, which might be dormant, the feeling of pride, so that people can actively affirm who they are?
Mr. Senay: Yes, this is an ideal opportunity. However, I must be frank, I fear that people will run out of steam doing things that, after the Games, will be abandoned.
The Games create an extraordinary increase in economic activity. However, once the Games are over, things will go back to normal.
We have to adopt a long-term approach and encourage people to take advantage of the opportunity, while ensuring that they continue once it is all over. They have to find a place for themselves in the post-Games context, for example, in the tourism and culture industries.
My greatest wish would be for us to position ourselves for the future rather than exhaust ourselves in a two-week event.
The Games provide us with a fabulous opportunity, on the condition that we benefit from them appropriately.
Senator Losier-Cool: Is this what you recommend we put in our report?
Mr. Senay: We have to make sure that francophone community is visible, present and active, but that it come out of the Games well positioned to promote the region's linguistic duality and, by doing so, fight assimilation and the decline of our language.
Senator Comeau: Was the Chambre de commerce Franco-Colombienne asked to get involved with the 2010 Olympic Games? If so, who contacted you?
Mr. Senay: The Chambre de commerce franco-colombienne was not approached, which is understandable, given that it is restructuring following a difficult period. However, the Chambre of commerce is a member of the Société de développement économique de la Colombie-Britannique, which is engaged in various economic sectors, including tourism and other committees.
The answer therefore is no, but that is not dramatic. In fact, it is within the scope of our possibilities.
[English]
Senator Murray: I do not know what to say. I refuse to be totally discouraged as some of my colleagues seem to be, but perhaps that is a cultural issue.
If you were in Ottawa for the past 20 years or so as a non-British Columbian and were on the receiving end of representations from British Columbia about the big issues in British Columbia, what were they? Well, one is teaching English as a second language to the immigrants who have flooded in here mostly from Asia, and the Government of British Columbia and other people saying to Ottawa, ``Your policies have brought us these people. We are glad to have them, but you have got to help us teach English as a second language.''
Then in Vancouver there were the social and economic and justice problems of drugs in your community. There were and are Aboriginal land claims. There were and are shakes and shingles and now softwood lumber, and on and on it goes. These are mega issues, and I do not think — interested though I am in the issues we have been discussing around this table — that the fate of the francophone community of British Columbia was an issue that one heard very much. It is difficult for that issue to make itself heard in the midst of all these other mega issues that have occupied the attention of people in Ottawa.
That being said, I am not shocked or surprised, in the way that Senator Jaffer is, by what you have had to say and what others have had to say. I am not even discouraged. The surprising thing is not that the situation of the francophones is as it is; it is that they are still here at all, given the demographic, economic, social and cultural pressures that we all know about.
[Translation]
That shows the tenacity and the leadership of the francophone community in British Columbia, but also the importance of Canada's legal and constitutional system.
Earlier this morning, other witnesses spoke about the number of cases in three or four regions of the province and the number of students in those schools. The problem is at the high school level. You also indicated that there were many weaknesses in early learning.
In passing, I would simply like to say that all the early learning and child care agreements, signed by the previous government, were intended to give special attention and make a concerted effort to assist official linguistic minorities in all provinces. Unfortunately, those agreements fell through.
Although these things sometimes can be discouraging, there is also reason to be optimistic. The community is here, and there are means to ensure its development.
[English]
We were in Nova Scotia a year or two ago. The francophones, the Acadians there, are also dispersed throughout the province. They are not that numerous. The difference is that you can find them in certain areas. You can find them in certain communities, and they have the same problem of assimilation and intermarriage. They do have a plan to stop, to slow down the rate of assimilation and to ensure that those who have the right to attend French schools do so. One of the solutions, of course, is ``la petite enfance, les maternelles,'' the daycare, and so on. Get them before they go to school and make the schools themselves community centres where the francophone population will be attracted to come together, work together and exchange ideas.
Therefore, neither in Nova Scotia nor on this coast do I come away terribly discouraged.
[Translation]
The biographical notes you have provided us with mention that you were a member of the advisory committee for the framework agreement between Canada and British Columbia on the promotion of the official languages. The committee tabled its report in June 2001.
[English]
What were the findings, what were the recommendations and what has been done about them since then? Tell us a little bit about that.
Mr. Senay: That committee was struck by the provincial minister to determine the priorities of the francophone community as to how the funds from the Canada-British Columbia agreement on official languages were going to be invested. We held hearings and found that people were very reasonable. We were not asking for the moon. We were asking for certain things to be made available. There were ideas such as making fax-on-demand available; making the Health Guide available in French, which it is.
[Translation]
The Health Guide was published in British Columbia. At the time, visitors from Quebec told me that they did not have such a guide in Quebec. I believe they do have one today. I therefore commend the province and congratulate the communities for having set priorities. The committee set a number of priorities with regard to the services and documents that should be made available. The report is still available on line.
A lot was done under the leadership of Mr. Stewart, who was the first person appointed to head the secretariat, and now under Minister John van Dongen.
Senator Murray: Are you talking about Victoria?
Mr. Senay: Indeed. These people are very active, and we have very good cooperation with them. The cooperation is not necessarily indicative of the partnership with the provincial government in general. Nevertheless, the people working in Mr. van Dongen's office really do try to find ways to improve the situation of francophones.
Senator Murray: The picture you paint is not pessimistic but perhaps realistic. Are you not a little discouraged?
Mr. Senay: No. I am in this to stay.
The Chairman: On behalf of committee members, I wish to thank you, Mr. Senay, for having met with us and given us an overview of the situation. Your presentation, information, recommendations and suggestions will be useful to us. We wish you all the best and ask you to continue keeping us up-to-date.
The committee is adjourned.