Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Official Languages
Issue 7 - Evidence - Afternoon meeting
VANCOUVER, Tuesday, November 14, 2006
The Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages is meeting today at 1:30 p.m. to study, and report from time to time, on the application of the Official Languages Act and of the regulations and directives made under it, within those institutions subject to the Act, and to study the draft of a report.
Senator Maria Chaput (Chairman) in the chair.
[Translation]
The Chairman: Good afternoon and welcome, everyone, to this meeting of the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages. I am Maria Chaput, the chair of the committee, and I come from Manitoba. As you know, we are looking mainly at two issues during our time here in Vancouver: the impact of the move of federal agency head offices on the application of the Official Languages Act and consideration of the official languages in the organization of the 2010 Olympic Games.
Allow me to introduce the committee members who are here today: Senator Mobina from British Columbia, Senator Gerald Comeau from Nova Scotia, Senator Tardif from Alberta and Senator Fernand Robichaud from New Brunswick.
Our first witnesses this afternoon are employees of the Canadian Tourism Commission who moved from Ottawa to Vancouver in the spring of 2005.
We have asked them to briefly introduce themselves before we ask them questions. The three witnesses representing the Canadian Tourism Commission are Joanne Richard, Manager, Board Affairs; Roger Laplante, Manager, Market Research; and Frank Verschuren, Product Specialist. Welcome.
Joanne Richard, Manager, Board Affairs, Canadian Tourism Commission: Madam Chairman, we thought we would each briefly introduce ourselves. I am Joanne Richard, Manager, Board Affairs, for the Canadian Tourism Commission. I have been with the commission for five years, and I moved with the commission from Ottawa to Vancouver nearly a year ago. Of the many factors I had to take into account in deciding whether to move, language considerations were not the most important. I am bilingual and comfortable in both English-language and French- language environments.
Roger Laplante, Manager, Market Research, Canadian Tourism Commission: Madam Chairman, I am Roger Laplante, Manager, Market Research, for the Canadian Tourism Commission. I have worked for the commission for the past 15 years. I previously worked for Statistics Canada for 10 years. I therefore have 25 years' experience working in a bilingual environment in the public sector.
I was born in Lachute. I am a Quebecker. I moved with the commission last November, over a year ago. I have to say, as my colleague, Ms. Richard, did, that the issue of bilingualism was not a problem for me, because I am perfectly bilingual. My decision to move to Vancouver was not influenced by language considerations.
I must admit that my decision to move was easy, because my wife also works for the commission and our children have left home. To us, moving represented an adventure in the final years of our careers. This move was an advancement opportunity for me, because I was the only research employee available.
[English]
Frank Verschuren, Product Specialist, Canadian Tourism Commission: Good afternoon, everyone. I am the anglophone in the group, purely an anglophone. My name is Frank Verschuren and I have been an employee of the Canadian Tourism Commission since its inception in 1995. Prior to moving to Ottawa in 1996, I was a tourism program officer with Industry Canada for 14 years based in Toronto, and I have been here in Vancouver for almost a year now.
I have to admit in the early days following the announcement of the CTC moving to Vancouver, coming here was neither my nor my family's first choice. With the CTC going to Vancouver, among the many considerations was the question of finding alternative employment in Ottawa. As an anglophone in a federally-designated bilingual region of Canada, the matter of official languages requirements indeed played a factor in my request to remain in Ottawa. In reality, there were very limited opportunities to apply for English-only designated positions in Ottawa, and the jobs that I had applied for that were designated bilingual non-imperative or bilingual imperative required proof of my current bilingual status. Unfortunately, that was something I did not have at the time because I was never required nor had I ever taken the Public Service Commission's French language exam. In the end, seeking re-entry into the public service in Ottawa was, for me at least, a difficult if not impossible task with all the rules in play vis-à-vis applying for federal government positions. However, I am happy to be here in Vancouver.
Again, I was not prepared to leave the Canadian Tourism Commission. I am happy that the commission gave me the opportunity and a reasonable amount of time to make some choices, and I am glad I made the choice to be here. While I have been here, I have basically never experienced any problems with the official languages policy, certainly as the commission is applying it at present.
I am available for questions.
[Translation]
Senator Tardif: Thank you for being here today. We really appreciate the fact that you are here. I have some short, specific questions. How many employees moved from Ottawa to Vancouver when the head office moved?
Mr. Laplante: To my knowledge, 19.
Senator Tardif: The commissioner said nine during a presentation in Ottawa last week. It was 19 out of 90?
Mr. Laplante: About that. I think there were about 85 of us, with a capacity of 99.
Senator Tardif: What factors influenced people's decision not to move?
Mr. Laplante: I think there were two main factors. One was their spouse's employment situation. Some people's spouses were the main breadwinner in the household. The other factor was the higher cost of living due to the price of real estate here, which had a huge influence. When we talked among ourselves, we could not imagine coming here at the same salary level and being able to afford a house comparable to the one we had in Ottawa. I live in the suburbs, nearly an hour from the office, but I was in the same situation in Ottawa.
Senator Tardif: I just received a note clarifying that 19 employees moved and nine of them were francophones. The commissioner told me that.
Mr. Laplante: That could be.
Senator Tardif: So roughly 10 per cent were francophones.
Mr. Laplante: But some of those 19 people were bilingual.
Senator Tardif: How many employees does the Canadian Tourism Commission currently have in Vancouver?
Mr. Laplante: Some positions still have to be filled. I would say that we are at about 90 per cent capacity. There are maybe 70 to 75 employees at present.
Senator Tardif: How many of that number are designated as bilingual?
Mr. Laplante: I have no idea.
Senator Tardif: What do you think?
Mr. Laplante: I would be inclined to believe that, on the whole, they are — I can take a typical example. I am currently staffing two positions in my section, both of which are bilingual.
Senator Tardif: Do you evaluate language proficiency when you hire?
Mr. Laplante: Yes. We have to take that into account before making an offer of employment.
Senator Tardif: Do you work in French when you are here?
Mr. Laplante: I have to admit that I do not. I would say that about 90 per cent of my work is in English. That is not intentional; it is just how things happen. We receive calls — we serve the industry — and the calls we receive are in English.
Senator Tardif: And you, Ms. Richard?
Ms. Richard: I work in the Corporate Secretary's section. The Corporate Secretary is francophone. In our group of four, we work primarily in French. We are all bilingual. We can make calls in either language. I work with the board, which has anglophone and francophone members.
Senator Tardif: What language do you hold your work meetings in?
Ms. Richard: Work meetings in our section are held in both languages. We are comfortable switching from one language to the other.
Senator Tardif: And your managers? I am sorry, you may be the manager. Do the management and the general policies of the Canadian Tourism Commission comply with Part V of the Official Languages Act on respecting the choice of language of work?
Ms. Richard: In my section, we respect the choice of language.
Senator Tardif: Do you have the technical tools in French to allow you to do so? Are your computers programmed in French?
Mr. Laplante: Yes.
Ms. Richard: Yes, if we want.
Senator Tardif: And communications?
Ms. Richard: Communications are in both languages.
Senator Tardif: The Canadian Tourism Commission has been criticized in the past for not doing what it should to meet the requirements of the Official Languages Act, according to the latest report of the Commissioner of Official Languages. How do you respond to that criticism?
Ms. Richard: I am not aware of the criticism.
Mr. Laplante: We should perhaps have an overview of the criteria, because I would like to know what requirements have not been met. For example, marketing presentations to the board or the working committees are not necessarily made in both languages, but official documents are produced in both languages.
Senator Tardif: Are you required to prepare an action plan on official languages?
Mr. Laplante: Yes.
Senator Tardif: And have you prepared that action plan?
Mr. Laplante: Yes, the person in charge of that file at the office is William Arkins. That is part of the requirements.
[English]
Senator Jaffer: Are you working at all on the Olympics? Have you started working on the Olympics?
Mr. Laplante: It is right now, I would have to say, fragmented in my area from a research perspective. We do have an individual who is responsible for that file. I and my immediate boss are in touch at least once a week on topics of discussion as they relate to the Olympics and how from a strategic perspective we could maximize the upcoming Olympics for the Canadian tourism industry at large. We have a national hat and represent every region of the country, not only B.C.
Senator Jaffer: We are fortunate to have you here wearing a national hat. Expo is the only other national event that I am aware of that would have had your department working from Ottawa to give people around the world invitations to come here. It would be interesting to know what lessons concerning official languages were learned by the Expo commission. I understand that official languages probably was not the push at that time, but I am sure lessons were learned. Do we have those available?
Mr. Laplante: It would be very difficult for me to answer because at that time I was not exposed to that at Tourism Canada.
Senator Jaffer: May I please ask that you inquire, and then if you have something that you provide it to our chair?
Mr. Laplante: Yes.
Senator Jaffer: I know it is not your primary mandate to look at official languages, but every department, I am sure, has part of their department looking at official languages. Are you in the process of developing anything to make sure that both languages are properly represented?
Mr. Laplante: You mean as it relates to the Olympics?
Senator Jaffer: That is right.
Mr. Laplante: I would have to say that the strategic plans and research pieces that are produced tend to be at a high level in terms of documents and are always produced in both official languages. It is a requirement — and this is the direction I was given and that I give to my employees — that we do not publish anything until it is in both official languages.
Senator Jaffer: That is very comforting because I think at least as far the Canadian government is concerned, we have that right; all documents are in both languages.
Is there any kind of push within your commission for French-speaking countries to send ads that this will be a bilingual games?
Mr. Laplante: Not that I know of.
[Translation]
The Chairman: Before we go to Senator Murray's next question, I would like to remind those present that the three witnesses before us now came as individuals and that representatives of the Canadian Tourism Commission will appear tomorrow.
[English]
Senator Murray: That is very interesting.
Did you volunteer to come here as individuals?
Mr. Laplante: We were called and asked if we would volunteer, if we would be prepared to come.
Senator Murray: But the commission itself will be here tomorrow, officially.
The Chairman: Yes.
Senator Murray: When I knew a little — and it was very little — about the involvement of the federal government in tourism, it was a branch of the Department of Industry, was it not?
Mr. Laplante: Yes.
Senator Murray: The Minister of Industry is still your minister. What was the idea of setting it up as the Canadian Tourism Commission? At one time a few years ago, the government put Revenue Canada at arm's length, supposedly, and the same thing with the national parks. They are not quite in direct line with ministers in Parliament. Does your commission have that kind of autonomy?
Mr. Laplante: If we go back to the last few years before we became a special operating agency, before we became a Crown —
Senator Murray: You are a Crown corporation, are you?
Mr. Laplante: A Crown corporation now.
Senator Murray: Was that done by legislation?
Mr. Laplante: Yes.
Senator Murray: It must have been. When was that?
Mr. Laplante: In 2000. At that point in time, the tourism industry was very depressed in the sense that the actual level of visitation to Canada from the international market was very low. The deficit had risen. At that time, it was almost $6 billion.
Senator Murray: The tourism deficit?
Mr. Laplante: The tourism travel deficit.
Senator Murray: But 9/11 had something to do with that, did it not, in 2001?
Mr. Laplante: No, that happened long after.
The actual investment to track and sell Canada as a prime travel destination was very low. At that time, it was about $15 million. Montreal had a budget of about $35 million then.
A task force was formed at that time and was led by the former chief executive officer of then the CP Hotels, which are now Fairmont Hotels. I believe it was co-chaired by Judd Buchanan, who eventually became the chair of the CTC and then made a case to government that we needed to do something for the Canadian tourism industry. The idea or principle around the CTC was to have a business-oriented approach that would invite the industry to partner with the program and add to the investment information. That was the principle around the CTC at the start.
Senator Murray: You have a budget of $76.5 million for 2006-07. How much of that is in media advertising?
Mr. Laplante: It is about $55 million or $56 million.
Senator Murray: Most of it is in the United States, is it not?
Mr. Laplante: About $22 million is in the United States.
Senator Murray: What proportion of it would be in francophone countries? If it is $22 million in the United States, where is the rest of it? How much of it is in Canada itself?
Mr. Laplante: Out of the envelope of $75 million, about $3 million is spent in Canada. However, we have to keep in mind that our mandate is to reduce the travel deficit, and the way to do that is to attract more visitors to Canada and try to entice more Canadians to travel in Canada.
Senator Murray: Is much of it spent in francophone countries, such as France and Belgium?
Mr. Laplante: We are spending about $2.2 million there.
Senator Murray: Where is the rest of it being spent?
Mr. Laplante: It is disbursed between what we call our core target markets. Besides the U.S., we have Japan. Japan gets about $7 million of investment.
Senator Murray: Bringing people to Anne of Green Gables in P.E.I. and golf in Alberta.
Mr. Laplante: South Korea, China, Australia. If we go to Europe, there is the U.K., France, Germany and then Mexico.
Senator Murray: Do you still do co-op advertising with provinces?
Mr. Laplante: Yes.
Senator Murray: Which ones?
Mr. Laplante: All of them.
Senator Murray: Abroad?
Mr. Laplante: Yes.
I would just like to add something about Canada's budget of $3 million. We have to keep in mind that collectively the regions are investing close to $200 million.
Senator Murray: The provinces you mean?
Mr. Laplante: Yes.
Senator Murray: The provincial governments?
Mr. Laplante: Yes.
Senator Murray: Perhaps these questions should be asked tomorrow, but I will ask you anyway. Our notes here tell us that:
An audit report published by the Commissioner of Official Languages in 2005 found that the CTC had neither policies nor guidelines for official languages. Most managers and employees were poorly informed about the commission's OLA obligations. Among other shortcomings, the commission had no mechanism for evaluating its official languages performance. In addition, the performance rating given to the commission by the commissioner's office was poor in 2004-05 and 2005-06, especially with regard to management of official languages within the organization as well as Parts V and VII of the Official Languages Act.
It goes on to say:
CTC has not carried out an evaluation of the language proficiency of all the new employees hired after the commission moved to Vancouver. Negotiations are underway to subcontract language proficiency evaluation and language training services to a French language institution. Policy on official languages is currently under development at the CTC.
Do you have anything to say about those statements, or would you prefer we direct that question to your representatives tomorrow? Do you know anything about it?
Mr. Laplante: No.
Senator Murray: I know what market research is, believe it or not. I do not know what a product specialist is or does, and I am not sure about the board. What board are you talking about? The board of directors of the commission?
Ms. Richard: That is right, the board of directors of the commission.
Senator Murray: Judd Buchanan is the head of that, is he?
Ms. Richard: Not anymore. The chairman of the board is Charles Lapointe from Montreal.
Senator Murray: There is a board of how many members?
Ms. Richard: Twenty-six.
Senator Murray: Who is under the minister or under the chairman of the board? Who is the actual top dog in the Canadian Tourism Commission?
Ms. Richard: Michele McKenzie is the president and chief executive officer.
Senator Murray: Where is she?
Ms. Richard: She works here in Vancouver.
Senator Murray: She will be here tomorrow?
Ms. Richard: I do not think so.
Mr. Laplante: She just left this morning for a trade mission in China.
Senator Murray: Who will be here tomorrow?
Mr. Laplante: Chantal Péan.
Senator Murray: Is she the vice-president?
Mr. Laplante: She is the senior vice-president.
Senator Murray: In terms of market research, I presume you do a fair bit of that overseas in the countries where we advertise.
Mr. Laplante: From a research perspective, market research is one of the pieces of the pie. There are two pieces. There is the macro side to really gauge or get a good sense of how much tourism represents for the Canadian economy. On the other side, market research is more to assist the marketing program and to get a better understanding of their wants and needs, as well as which targets within target segments we should be going after. We also do a lot within that scope of studies, a competitive analysis. If they decide to not come to Canada, then why? What attracts them to another destination? What approach is that competitive destination using to attract them that is different than our?
We also do a lot of advertising, tracking and conversion study with our own programs to establish if the ad is effective in raising the level of awareness, and we are also closing the loop with our ads. We do conversion, too, then establish the return on investments.
Senator Murray: Have we asked the right questions here or are there other things you would like to talk about? Some of these things I suppose I should ask of Chantal Péan tomorrow. If you have come here voluntarily, there may be things you want to tell us that we have not asked about.
[Translation]
Senator Robichaud: I would like to open the door by asking an initial question. Did moving here to Vancouver change how you work? With regard to language of work and interpersonal relationships, what have been the changes?
Mr. Laplante: If I look at how we operate now, it has not changed. But I have to say that we were not at full capacity. Because we had a limited number of employees, we wore several hats at once. Here in Vancouver, I can give an example of a time when I had to go to Montreal twice to make presentations in French on topics for which I was indirectly responsible. This is due to the fact that the people who were to hold those positions had not yet been hired. Later, everything returned to normal and was fine.
Senator Robichaud: In terms of language of work, has that changed things?
Mr. Laplante: No.
Senator Robichaud: Could the people you hired here express themselves in both languages?
Mr. Laplante: Yes, as a rule. It may have been difficult to find candidates. Positions were opened to candidates from across the country. People expressed a desire to come and work for the Canadian Tourism Commission, and the question was whether they were prepared to move to Vancouver. For each position that opened, there were numerous bilingual candidates in the product specialist sector. I am doing more or less the same job as before.
Senator Robichaud: You would not hesitate to recommend that other shops in Ottawa move to the regions, even if they are unilingual regions?
Mr. Laplante: Without wanting to run down my mother tongue, I have to say that we work mainly in English. If we work outside the country, we work in English. For me, it is not a priority to express myself in French, because I work in English all the time.
Some people might say that because I am francophone, I should have more respect for my language. It started at the University of Ottawa, when I was taking courses in both languages. Many of the courses were offered in English. The pure science textbooks I had to use were all in English, and from then on, I adapted to the fact that I had to work in English.
When I worked at Statistics Canada, I would answer the phone and people would congratulate me on my French, thinking that I was anglophone. We work more in English because there is more demand in English.
I am not underestimating the demand in French; I believe there is some demand, but it is lower.
Senator Robichaud: What concerns us about moving employees is that they might be left out because of their language. We are also concerned that few people came to work here in Vancouver.
Mr. Laplante: It was not the determining factor.
Senator Robichaud: No?
Mr. Laplante: Not as far as I know. It may have been for some people. But for the most part, I think it was more people's family situation, the fact that an employee had a spouse and children in elementary school. Parents of school- age children are reluctant to move. I believe those were the main reasons.
Ms. Richard: My children went to French-language school in Ottawa. If they had been younger, it likely would have been harder to make the decision to move, because Vancouver has quite an anglophone environment.
But my children are adults now. My 20-year-old daughter lives with me and is bilingual. Living in a predominantly anglophone environment when you are francophone is something that young families are more concerned about.
Senator Robichaud: Mr. Verschuren, did moving to Vancouver give you an opportunity to work for the Canadian Tourism Commission?
[English]
Mr. Verschuren: It was an option, essentially. I did not have to stay with the CTC. I had other options to consider. However, in light of the economic situation, my family's well-being and personal finances, I needed to make a decision so that my standard of living was at least maintained if not enhanced. Being an anglophone in a designated bilingual region in Ottawa, and given what I went through to find a job within the public service again based on all the rules that were in play at that particular time, the decision was quite obvious. Basically, I did not have another option but to come here.
I was not looking to escape the bilingual requirements. In Ottawa as it is today, I am exposed to the French language and I enjoy being exposed to it. I am learning it. I am taking steps to be more conversant in French, but it does not impact my job inasmuch as if there is a requirement to make a presentation in French, I will do so to the best of my ability. If there is a requirement to correspond in French, I will do so with the help of my francophone colleagues, with the help of our Translation Bureau, and with the help of colleagues in my unit.
As a product specialist at the moment, I come from an environment that had six product specialists, many of whom were bilingual. I am the only one who survived the move to here. No one else came. I have been in the position over a year now as a product specialist in a division that is at the moment run and administered by an anglophone, and that is me, not without the help of my executive director, who is fluently bilingual, and with the help of other staff in our unit, which reports to our executive director. We have accommodated the French language requirement without any problem whatsoever. It just takes a little longer inasmuch as it requires me to make an English response and have it translated. That is just a fact of life at the moment, but that will change quite soon.
Senator Robichaud: How will it change?
Mr. Verschuren: It will change once the unit is staffed properly, which is scheduled to be three. Of the positions that are being staffed at the moment, one is bilingual non-imperative and the other is bilingual imperative. The French capability within that small unit of the Canadian Tourism Commission will be restored to what it was back in Ottawa. However, until that happens, it is up to me to respond to inquiries that are received from my partners, from my colleagues in Quebec or other regions of Canada if they want to do so in French. In the course of at least 48 to 72 hours, I will have that response back to them, simply because it is our duty to get back to people as soon as we can, and we try to do our best in that regard.
[Translation]
Senator Comeau: I would like us to look at the advantages and disadvantages of relocating a department or a Crown corporation.
In your case, the entire head office was relocated to Vancouver. The same thing happened with Veterans Affairs Canada, which was moved from Ottawa to Prince Edward Island.
Has anyone examined the impact that moving an entire head office has on employees' relatives and the language problems it could cause? With the means of communication we have today, is it possible to consider a partial move?
Mr. Laplante: Clearly, that was not an option. With a satellite office in Ottawa now, I think that recommendation is viable. The Canadian Tourism Commission lost what is known as ``corporate memory,'' and if we had considered a partial move, we might not have lost that. In my opinion, losing that knowledge amounts to a step backwards. I am not underestimating the people who did those jobs, but when you lose people with 20 or more years of experience in the field, it becomes very hard to replace them.
If we had considered a partial move and an office was needed in Vancouver, we could have focussed on the lead-up to the Olympic Games. What I mean is that all this work could have been done from Ottawa or Vancouver. As was mentioned earlier, with all the means of communication available to us today, we can work from virtually anywhere.
Senator Comeau: That suggests that the Canadian Tourism Commission could come back to Ottawa, which would comfort the employees who have young children and are worried about their education in an anglophone environment.
Instead of losing that corporate memory, there may be a second option. For example, when we look at relocating Fisheries and Oceans Canada, we realize that fishing takes place on both the west coast and the east coast, but all the offices are in Ottawa, where there are not many fish. It would be a good idea to examine a model other than moving an entire head office. That would certainly be beneficial.
Mr. Laplante: Absolutely.
Senator Comeau: In answer to another senator's question, you said that here in Vancouver, you work primarily in English?
Mr. Laplante: Yes.
Senator Comeau: Was that also the case in Ottawa?
Mr. Laplante: Yes. I had been complimented on my French at Statistics Canada.
Senator Comeau: I too am told I speak French well. Welcome to the club.
Senator Robichaud: If the move had been made to a designated bilingual area, would you have lost as many employees?
Mr. Laplante: I believe so, yes. As I was saying earlier, most of the people who did not move had very clear reasons not to, such as family situations, a spouse's employment situation or the change in financial situation that comes with moving to Vancouver. That scared a lot of people.
Senator Robichaud: Because of the housing market?
Mr. Laplante: Mainly. The cost of living is no more expensive, but when you start to break it down you realize that the housing market is very high. Car insurance and electricity, however, cost less.
Senator Robichaud: There needs to be advantages somewhere.
Mr. Laplante: The value of my property increased by $100,000 in one year.
Senator Robichaud: That is why you moved. No, I am teasing you.
Senator Tardif: My questions are on future generations. Feel free not to answer the following questions if you do not feel comfortable doing so or cannot do so. In your opinion, are the employees of the Canadian Tourism Commission aware of their rights and obligations under the Official Languages Act?
Mr. Laplante: Absolutely.
Senator Tardif: They are aware?
Mr. Laplante: Yes.
Senator Tardif: In terms of public services and the possibility of working in the language of one's choice, do they know that tools, infrastructure and supervision are available in French?
Mr. Laplante: We have received many emails on the matter.
Senator Tardif: Who sent the emails?
Mr. Laplante: The emails comes from the communications department responsible for official languages. For example, if I write a research report and I send it to publications, who then posts it on the Commission's Web site, this report becomes available to industry and the public. If I do not provide a French version of my report, it will never be posted on the Web site. The guidelines are quite clear and we have to respect them.
Senator Tardif: Do you work with the francophone community? Do you periodically meet with the Fédération des francophones de la Colombie-Britannique?
Mr. Laplante: No, but my colleague from the department of communications might.
Senator Tardif: Why don't you?
Mr. Laplante: As I was saying earlier, the work and decision-making are done mainly in English.
Senator Tardif: Part of the Official Languages Act is to encourage official language communities. Thus, if the Canadian Tourism Commission moves to areas where there are francophone communities, it has the opportunity to work with the francophone community and to create partnerships.
Mr. Laplante: We do not do that with the English community. The English community comes to us. That is how I see it.
Mrs. Richard: There are occasions when we do so. A few weeks ago, the Franco-Columbian Chamber of Commerce held a breakfast meeting. RDI was there and we were four or five representatives from the Canadian Tourism Commission. The champion of official languages was also there, officially to talk about the Olympics and partnership possibilities.
Senator Tardif: Have you, personally, had occasion to take part in francophone activities in Vancouver?
Mrs. Richard: I have received invitations in the past and there will probably be other events in the future now that I have met people from the francophone group here in Vancouver. But it is mostly personal and not business related.
[English]
Senator Jaffer: I have a question for Mr. Verschuren, but if he does not want to answer, I will certainly respect his decision.
When you first started, Mr. Verschuren, you said that you were unilingual. However, as you went on, you gained more knowledge in French and can now communicate in French, but at that time you had difficulty getting a job in Ottawa at your level. Do you think people in your position resent the fact that they are not able to progress in Ottawa because they do not have the required level of French and have to look elsewhere for jobs?
Mr. Verschuren: When you work with a federal agency or department in this country, it is a given that there is a dual linguistic policy in place, which I certainly respect. Having gone through the process as an anglophone in Ottawa where the tables are turned, essentially, for anglophones who have worked with the federal public service in a Crown corporation environment, I can say that it is as equally difficult as it might be for a francophone to get a job in a unilingual English area. It works both ways. I think that perhaps some discussion or some analysis should be undertaken in the sense that the official languages policy works both ways, and attention should be paid to that when dealing with anglophones in federally designated bilingual areas.
Senator Jaffer: We could learn a lot from you in a ``lessons learned'' kind of way. If you were starting again, what should have been in place that would have made it easier for you? I do hear from people here in the federal service that it is very difficult to obtain French lessons if you are in B.C., but what should have been in place that would have made it easier for you to learn French?
Mr. Verschuren: From an anglophone's perspective, I am finding that the older you are, the harder it is to learn a second language. I have been exposed to it all of my life. There are certainly opportunities for French language training in all departments and agencies, but I am not convinced that French language training in the course of one's business day or after work is going to make you bilingual.
At the present time, I take four hours of French during the course of my work week in order to improve my language skills from a speaking and writing point of view. You can speak to me in French and I understand exactly what you are saying. It is simply that I cannot converse with you in a ``normal course of business'' language or in a normal conversation. There are opportunities at my level for French immersion, to go and spend six to eight months actually learning a language if that is the requirement, but some people are afraid of doing that for fear that what they come back to will not be what they left. That is one of the concerns. It is not a normal course of practice to do that given the operational considerations within a department. It is not all that practical in an organization as large as we are because we are small, and every set of hands, every mind that is sitting in the office is dear and is necessary at any given time. Going away to take language training is a difficult decision to make.
From my perspective — and hindsight is 20/20 — had I known what I was getting into, I probably would have made a bigger effort earlier in my career to make sure that I became bilingual. It was not a big problem in Toronto, and it is not certainly a big problem here, but in Ottawa I quickly found out that if you are not bilingual, then your options are limited, at least from a public service point of view.
Senator Jaffer: Thank you.
[Translation]
The Chairman: On behalf of the members of the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages, I want to thank the three witnesses for sharing their experience with us this afternoon.
We will now receive the Executive Director of the Conseil culturel et artistique francophone de la Colombie- Britannique, Nicole Desjardins.
Nicole Desjardins, Executive Director, Conseil culturel et artistique francophone de la Colombie-Britannique: I want to thank Senator Maria Chaput for inviting me to speak today in your committee, following our meeting in Ottawa two weeks ago as part of Équipe francophonie. I hope my humble testimony will help clarify and supplement your report.
First, the Conseil culturel et artistique francophone de la Colombie-Britannique, CCAFCB, is a provincial agency for arts and culture representing 15 francophone associations with cultural and artistic programming.
Our members are: the Association des francophones de Nanaimo, Association des francophones de Kootenays Ouest, Association des francophones et francophiles du Nord-Ouest, Association francophone de Campbell River, Association francophone de Kamloops, Association francophone de la Vallée de Comox, Centre culturel français de l'Okanagan, Centre culturel francophone de Vancouver, Cercle des Canadiens français de Prince-George, Club Bon Accueil de Powell River, Société francophone de Victoria, Société Maillardville-Uni, Théâtre la Seizième, Troupe de danse traditionnelle Les Cornouillers and Vision Ouest Productions.
As you can see, the Conseil culturel et artistique francophone de la Colombie-Britannique is represented throughout the province.
The CCAFCB actively contributes to the development of francophone arts and culture through its Pacific Network, which supports artists and distributors; through cultural displays; by supporting artists' tours; by creating opportunities for networking, offering continuing education, coordinating joint cultural programming and supporting participation in contact events.
Intégration des arts en milieu scolaire is another achievement for linking the cultural and artistic sector with the education community to raise awareness among educators of the importance of having arts and culture in the schools as a tool for developing identity. It supports artists, staff and parent associations in schools to increase the number of artistic and cultural projects and presentations in schools.
We recently reached an agreement with the French school board to integrate arts and culture in the hope that one day there will be funding for this agreement.
There is also the matter of the Winter Games and the Paralympic Games in 2010. We want to mobilize the members of the CCAFCB and the cultural and artistic sector for the 2010 Olympic Games. We are in the process of carrying out strategic planning, which will end in December. We are represented in the cultural sector committee of the Fondation canadienne pour le dialogue des cultures and the Fédération culturelle canadienne-française. We sit on this committee and the national committee of the Fondation canadienne pour le dialogue des cultures.
We are also represented in the sector of arts and culture within the community through the FFCB-COVAN agreement.
The action plan will come following our strategic planning.
We also have the CCAFCB Web site. We are currently updating it to make it interactive and to bring together the arts and culture sector of the British Columbian community. We were subsidized by Industry Canada for this site under the Francommunautés virtuelles Program.
Our future: en route toward a cultural and artistic community that is vibrant, dynamic and ever-changing; a community full of diverse and numerous cultural and artistic experiences; an artistic community known throughout la Francophonie; a sustained partnership with the community, regardless of its origin. The various levels of government offer better financial support to the arts and culture agencies of the Canadian Francophonie.
As you can see, the CCAFCB is an essential agency to the development of the francophone community, and has a stake in British Columbia and thus in the vitality of this province and the success of the people who live there.
You may or may not have noticed that I have talked about our achievements, but not our activities. The CCAFCB engages in a number of activities. I invite you read about them on the small, very colourful card I handed out to you. I invite you all to read it. You can also read about our activities on the CCAFCB Web site. Go back to the site regularly, especially since it will have a new look in April 2007.
Since my attendance here is linked to the 2010 Olympic Games, I will now come back to this issue, which is a priority to our agency. In drafting a strategic plan that will lead the arts and culture community to a plan of action for the 2010 Olympic Games, the CCAFCB has been able to put together very useful information for building a francophone presence within the 2010 Olympic Games and in the hope of being a dynamic player within the very structures of the Games through COVAN. We would like to share that information with you.
We also have some of the characteristics of the Vancouver-Whistler Games. They are Canadian Games with everything that that entails in terms of linguistic duality. The first Cultural Olympiad is associated with the Winter Games. Emphasis will be placed on First Nations and Aboriginal peoples, youth, partners, new technologies and legacies.
This is the first time the different ceremonies will be held inside. What is more, this is the 10th anniversary of the Paralympics.
I want to mention the three strategic directions of the francophone community of British Columbia for the Games:
The Games are a showcase for the francophone community of British Columbia. The francophone artists and artisans of British Columbia are represented fairly during events linked to the Games. Spin-offs from the Games will help with cultural and economic development, community development and the educational development of the francophone community of British Columbia.
You have here a chart that gives you an overview of the cultural programs tied to the Games. In the first column, you have the activities. Here are the activities being held before the Games. You have the Cultural Olympiad, which should be available from 2006 to 2010; unfortunately, the activities have been postponed. We have been told they will not begin until 2008. This should have been under way from 2006 to 2007, in Vancouver and in Whistler. These activities showcased local culture and artists.
Next, in 2007, 2008, we have Offensive Canada, for the participation of the communities in the country's cultural institutions. In 2008-2009, we have the international tours, because we have to have some sort of cultural display to bring people all over the world — Canadians, artists and artisans. Canada's greatest creative talents will present their works, their knowledge and invite the world to come to British Columbia in 2010. This tour will end five weeks before the Games.
We also have a Web-based story exchange activity, which also should be underway from 2006 to 2010. This is an interactive communication tool to bring artistic agencies closer together. There will be Olympic exhibits in Switzerland at the Olympic museum in Lausanne, and in Vancouver at the Vancouver Museum. It is an exhibit on Canadian arts and cultural heritage. The Vancouver Museum will also host an exhibit from the Olympic museum.
We also have programs called 2010 Legacies Now, which are arts and culture subsidies for francophone associations in British Columbia — for any association, in fact. I have summarized the agencies that have received this funding since 2006 to prepare for the 2010 Olympic Games.
In the Spirit of BC program, we had the Chanson de guerre pour la paix, 16th Festival d'été francophone de Vancouver, by the Centre culturel francophone de Vancouver; Ma ville est mon amant, 12th Coup de cœur francophone de Vancouver 2006, by the Centre culturel francophone de Vancouver.
In the Arts Now 2005 program, we had a diversification of funding requested by the Centre culturel francophone de Vancouver. The CCAFBC received funding for our strategic planning for the Games.
Under Arts Now 2006, we had Cinémania by the Association des francophones des Kootenays Ouest and the festival AfroFest. Funding was requested by the Centre d'intégration pour les immigrants africains. The cultural council has requested the femmes en chanson pour 2010 program. We are still waiting for a response.
We have other activities in the ``various and francophone'' category. Do not forget that, in 2008, we will be celebrating the 150th anniversary of the founding of British Columbia. Also, in 2008, in British Columbia, we will be hosting the North American Indigenous Games.
There will also be celebrations and anniversaries of British Columbia's francophone associations. In 2007 we have the 100th anniversary of the Scouts and the 20th anniversary of the Association des francophones de Surrey. In 2008, we have the 30th anniversary of the Association de Campbell River. In 2009, we have the 100th anniversary of the founding of Maillardville-Uni and the 20th anniversary of the Conseil jeunesse francophone de la Colombie- Britannique. In 2010 we have the 50th anniversary of the Cercle des Canadiens-Français, the 20th anniversary of the Réseau-femmes en Colombie Britannique and the 10th anniversary of the Festival du sucre d'érable in Nanaimo, to name a few.
Among the festivals and other events being held by the francophone associations of British Columbia which coincide with the 2010 Olympic Games, we have the Festival du sucre d'érable in Nanaimo, the Festival du bois in Maillardville-Uni, the Festival de la francophonie de Victoria, the Festival Les Rendez-vous du cinéma québécois et francophone, the Festival d'hiver du Cercle des Canadiens-français de Prince George, sugar shacks by various associations, Kamloops, AFFNO and a francophone ski day put on by AFKO.
Before the Games, and linked to COVAN, we also have activities related to the Olympic Torch Relay beginning in fall 2009 for 114 days from Greece to Canada. It is a national project, which represents the torch relay by more than 7,000 Canadians of all ages and from every culture, on foot, by dogsled, on snowmobile, on horseback, by plane, in short, by Canadian modes of transportation. We will also have the Olympic Arts Festival from January 22, 2010, for five weeks until February 27. It will use more than 25 different locations across Vancouver and Whistler — spilling onto the sidewalks, streets and public spaces, into and around the sports venues and the Olympic Village. It will showcase Canadian art and culture, together with the best the rest of the world has to offer.
[English]
Senator Jaffer: Since we both come from the same area and I know you well, I just would suggest to you that we can read your brief later. If you wish, you can certainly go through it, but what we really want is to have a dialogue with you and learn from you.
Ms. Desjardins: I would like you to know that the activities are very important.
Senator Jaffer: We have seen that, and we very much appreciate what is set out in the brief. We will all read it when we go back to Ottawa.
Ms. Desjardins: Thank you. I understand.
[Translation]
As you can see, a wide range of events and activities are available to the francophone community of British Columbia. Even though this FFCB-COVAN agreement has been signed, this does not automatically guarantee participation by the francophone community in the Games at all possible occasions. However, it is our duty to hope for a good turnout since we are part of the host community and part of one of the country's two official languages.
Furthermore, we all know that French is the official language of the modern Olympic Games. I agree with the remarks of Ms. Lise Bissonnette, in her report as Grand Témoin de la Francophonie to the Turin Winter Olympics, that it is all very well to use the French language for the ceremony, but the language spoken has become English. I will leave it to the FFCB to discuss this matter with your committee. However, the arts and culture sector does find it troubling.
We will certainly have additional information in December 2006 with the CCAFCB strategic planning for the arts and culture sector.
CCAFCB is also concerned about the unilingual presence in current management staff at VANOC in the culture, ceremonies and cultural events unit. You need only visit the Internet site to ascertain this.
VANOC will be meeting with the francophone arts and culture sector this Thursday, at Maison de la francophonie, to present their cultural program to date. Their presentation will be in English because the two individuals responsible for the cultural unit are unilingual anglophones. Perhaps we will have the pleasure of listening to them in both of Canada's official languages. We do not wish to be pessimistic. However, if the current structures do not have bilingual staff it is very likely that the majority of future employees will be unilingual anglophones and that the linguistic duality of Canada will not be represented.
As the arts and culture sector will be involved throughout most of the Games, we have reason to be worried about the representation of francophone artists and artisans in the cultural programs of the Games. We have already noted the absence of francophone artists at events presented by VANOC over the past year.
In British Columbia there are many reputable artists and artisans working in various disciplines within the arts and culture sector, not to mention the other artists and artisans from francophone and Acadian communities from other provinces who have established themselves here. There are networks of artists across Canada and the pan-Canadian francophonie working in the arts and culture is well organized and has quality artists and artisans who, we hope, will take part in the Games' cultural program. We hope that this is part of VANOC's game plan.
We are also concerned that the cultural programs of the Games are behind schedule. Normally, the Olympic cultural programs would have started immediately after Turin and it seems that they will only get underway in fall 2007 or spring 2008. The consequences of this two-year absence are of concern to us. Is it too late to hire new talent as well as the French-speaking Canadian artists and artisans who will provide the canvas for the various programs related to the Games? It would be unfortunate to have only the well-known big names — without excluding them, naturally — and not leave any room for local talent from across Canada.
Everyone should be provided with a bilingual Canadian Olympic experience. The francophone culture in British Columbia is thriving, dynamic and vibrant. We have a well-established heritage, a culture in continual evolution, a diversified artistic and cultural sector with a presence throughout the province. In addition, several festivals coincide with the 2010 Olympic Games.
The CCAFCB and its members, resources, undertakings, successes and a provincial, interprovincial, national and international network with partners in the community could help VANOC make the Games a success.
The CCAFCB would like to contribute to the organization of the cultural component of the 2010 Olympic Games through the Games' cultural programs by making available its expertise, its network and its experience. The CCAFCB is a key partner for the 2010 Olympic Games.
Culturally, we will all move towards the 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games, advancing the values of the Canadian linguistic duality.
Senator Murray: Ms. Desjardins, if you were a senator and a member of this committee and you knew that, at 10:15 a.m. tomorrow, Francine Bolduc, Program Director, Human Resources and Official Languages, of the Vancouver Organizing Committee for the 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games, and Ms. Renée Smith Valade, Vice- President of Communications for COVAN, were to be witnesses, and you were preparing your questions, what would you ask them? Am I right that the most pressing issues for you are those on page 10 of the brief you provided today?
First, you are concerned about the fact that current managers at VANOC in the culture, ceremonies and cultural events unit are unilingual.
Second, you have noted that there were no francophone artists in events already presented by VANOC over the past year.
Third, you are concerned by the fact that the Games' cultural programs are not on schedule.
Are these the three issues that you would have VANOC address? Please help us to prepare our questions so that they are as pertinent as possible.
Ms. Desjardins: The CCAFCB did note the absence of artists at events that have taken place. However, it was mainly people in attendance that commented about it to me. Every time they saw me they would ask: Why were there never any artists from British Columbia at VANOC ceremonies? These comments were made by citizens, not just the Conseil culturel.
Senator Murray: Did they ask you what you were doing about it?
Ms. Desjardins: Yes, they did.
Senator Murray: And what did you reply?
Ms. Desjardins: The program director for the cultural olympiad was just hired in September. Prior to that, if there was no one in the position, I imagine that they must have organized performances as best they could. Clearly there is a linguistic duality in Canada. In British Columbia, there are over 65,000 francophones and some 240,000 to 270,000 francophiles. That is a vibrant population.
I believe that it would have been easy given that our organization does exist. We have been present on the arts and culture scene of British Columbia for ten years. Perhaps there was a lack of coordination or communication. We learned about these events at the last minute, for example only a week in advance. When you are given one week's notice for an event, it is impossible to make arrangements with an artist. He or she cannot travel when notified only one week or three days in advance. Arrangements have to be made perhaps one to one and a half months in advance.
Senator Murray: We would like to know if your organization is working closely with VANOC or has been involved in its consultations.
Ms. Desjardins: I have been in British Columbia for one year. I have been approached by the Fédération des francophones, the various committees to which I belong but, to date, not really by VANOC.
Senator Murray: You talk about the current unilingual staff. Are they drawing up a plan?
Ms. Desjardins: I hope they have an action plan to change all this. I know that Ms. Bolduc is presently a point of contact for the francophone community.
Senator Murray: She is the director of human resources and official languages. That is not really her role.
Ms. Desjardins: I agree with you. However, that is the situation at present. I do not want to be negative about this. I know that they are getting organized and I imagine that if they have hired a program director for the cultural olympiad, then a whole team will be put in place. I do not believe that Mr. Robert Kerr will do all that on his own. All that I hope for is that the linguistic duality be respected at that level. Le Conseil culturel et artistique francophone de la Colombie-Britannique and others have also asked me about the francophonie's role in all of this.
As for the schedule, since taking up my position I have often approached VANOC to try to learn what has been done about the cultural Olympiad in 2006. I followed the Turin Olympics and, after they ended, preparations for the cultural olympiad should have started right away. The francophone community is ready. We have things we can deliver to VANOC to help them in a win-win relationship. That is what the francophone community wants. By community, I mean a francophone community consisting of diverse ethno cultural groups who speak French and are francophiles. Since coming here, a little over a year ago, I have been pleasantly surprised to discover that they love the French and the French language. It is spoken by many anglophones, the Chinese community has taken an interest in it, and French immersion schools are all the rage. The Conseil culturel et artistique francophone de la Colombie-Britannique will also serve these communities.
Senator Murray: Your Conseil culturel et artistique francophone de la Colombie-Britannique is a type of federation of various associations, an umbrella group. Is the Conseil financed by its members or by the government?
Ms. Desjardins: It is a not-for-profit organization supported mainly by the OLSPB community agreement. The little revenue we receive from our members is not enough given that our annual membership fee is $100. You could say that $1,500 covers very little in the budget. But we will be seeking funding from various sources, as I mentioned earlier, for our Internet site which is part of Industry Canada's virtual community program. We will apply for funding from Legacies Now 2010, British Columbia Arts Council, and others.
Senator Murray: May I ask where you lived before moving to British Columbia?
Ms. Desjardins: I came from the Montreal area; I am a Quebecker.
Senator Murray: Have you worked in this sector before?
Ms. Desjardins: I worked for the Bank of Canada, at the museum.
Senator Losier-Cool: As did Senator Murray, I will be asking questions about your Conseil culturel et artistique francophone de la Colombie-Britannique. In one of your answers, you added that you have certain ties with Vancouver's cultural society. Does the province of British Columbia have a cultural policy? I am sure you know that it is something New Brunswick would dearly like to have and that is promised every election.
Ms. Desjardins: Yes, you are activists.
Senator Losier-Cool: Is there a provincial cultural council?
Ms. Desjardins: I will probably make a recommendation to that effect in my strategic plan or upcoming action plan for 2010 Olympic Games legacies. No, we do not have a cultural council; we have a culture, sport and leisure unit. There is not a cultural policy and there is no money for development of the arts and culture for communities of British Columbia.
Senator Losier-Cool: I don't imagine that you have a francophone cultural committee.
Ms. Desjardins: We are working very hard on that.
[English]
Last week my superior sent my curriculum vitae, my résumé, to the B.C. Arts Council to take part in the jury —
[Translation]
... or the selection committees of organizations that will be funded, there was not one francophone.
Senator Losier-Cool: Are there a certain number of francophone artists who are independent, who make a living from their art, whether in the theatre, visual arts or another area?
[English]
Ms. Desjardins: The majority of them are not. They have a second job, a real job.
[Translation]
That is what we would like to change. I would like to have the vitality of the Acadian people. The worst thing about it is that we do have it here. With all the artists — whether in theatre, film, visual arts, song or music — we have some truly great talent. However, the artists burn out because there is no money, they are not supported.
Senator Losier-Cool: I will now return to participation in the 2010 Olympic Games. I understand that VANOC will have ties to the Fédération des francophones de la Colombie-Britannique, whose representatives we met this morning. In raising the matter of the cultural aspect, they will ask the Fédération des francophones de la Colombie-Britannique to approach the Conseil culturel et artistique francophone de la Colombie-Britannique for this event.
Ms. Desjardins: The Fédération des francophones de la Colombie-Britannique entered into this agreement with VANOC. It clearly states in this agreement that it is for the benefit of the community not the benefit of the Fédération des francophones de la Colombie-Britannique. It is for the community. Someone had to sign this agreement.
This agreement outlines three sectors: the community sector; the economic sector, the responsibility of the Société de développement économique de la Colombie-Britannique; and the arts and culture sector, with the Conseil culturel et artistique francophone de la Colombie-Britannique responsible for the expertise and professionalism of this sector.
Senator Losier-Cool: I am pleased to hear, as you told Senator Murray, that a program director has been hired.
Ms. Desjardins: Yes, he was just hired at the beginning of September.
Senator Losier-Cool: I hope he will commission a play about the first Olympics where French was the official language. If you have something to offer and you have a program director who is into marketing, they will have no choice but to take you.
Ms. Desjardins: Mr. Kerr will need a strong team and he is an excellent manager. He was the executive director of the Vancouver International Jazz Festival. He is very capable.
Senator Tardif: This program director, does he work for your group or for VANOC?
Ms. Desjardins: No, he works for VANOC.
Senator Losier-Cool: Then I misunderstood.
Ms. Desjardins: Robert Kerr is the program director for the 2010 Cultural Olympiad for VANOC.
Senator Losier-Cool: I am sorry, I misunderstood.
Senator: That is why I wanted to clarify this point.
[English]
Senator Jaffer: I would like my colleagues to know that in the short time that she has been here, she has really been working hard on behalf of all of us, so we are very happy to have you here.
I am looking at lessons learned. The closing ceremonies in Turin did not have a good flavour of who we are, perhaps what we were many hundreds of years ago, but not who we are now. Did anyone get together with you for a debriefing on how it should have been done? Did you have anyone from VANOC?
[Translation]
Ms. Desjardins: If I understand the question correctly, did anyone from VANOC approach me?
[English]
Senator Jaffer: From an artistic point of view.
Ms. Desjardins: No, not yet.
Senator Jaffer: Given what you have been saying in response to some of the questions that have already been asked, have you provided names of artists to VANOC?
Ms. Desjardins: We are going to have a session this week. We have organized a multi-media presentation for them. We are not going to list them, but we said in the multi-media presentation that we are going to have 50 or 75 multi- disciplinary artists. I think that if they catch the multi-media presentation, they will be very interested in working with us.
Senator Jaffer: One of the things that we are doing this week is making a list of what we think the games should look like when it comes to linguistic issues because that is our mandate. We heard you very clearly regarding unilingual people on the committee, and it is one of the things we will be talking about. Are you telling them what percentage of French content you want in the opening or closing ceremonies? If you were making a list of things, what would you be saying has to happen?
Ms. Desjardins: I know we are working on that. We are not there to tell them what to do, but we have some expectations.
[Translation]
We would like to see a certain number of francophone Acadian artists and French-speaking ethno-cultural groups involved in these presentations.
As I explained, we have a good idea of all the venues for the ceremonies. It will be amazing. Of course a percentage of the performances should be in French. I do not know how we will decide that or what VANOC's game plan is. I believe that there should be dialogue with the francophone arts and culture community. Through our committees, there will be dialogue with the Fondation canadienne de la culture. I am a member of the national committee as well as the arts and culture committee. We are preparing an action plan and since they answer to VANOC at the national level, we too will have a game plan. That will probably come up during negotiations.
[English]
Senator Jaffer: When you have that list, could you can provide it to our chair?
Ms. Desjardins: Absolutely.
Senator Jaffer: As we do our work, we would like to know what you are looking at so we have an idea. With the greatest of respect, I find if you do not ask, you do not receive. We certainly look forward to getting your list so we can follow up.
One of the things we look to you to help us with is what the games would look like in a perfect world. Our rich French culture from different parts of the country should be reflected in the games, not necessarily all in the opening ceremonies, but throughout the games. We look to you as a specialist in this area to advise us so that we can also look out for those things.
Ms. Desjardins: Yes.
[Translation]
Senator Tardif: I have a comment and a question. I believe you are right to be vigilant with regard to the participation of artists in the opening and closing ceremonies and before the Games.
I attended two international events held in Edmonton, Alberta: the 2001 World Athletics Championships and the 2005 World Masters Games. They were very reluctant to accept francophone artists. Lists of qualified individuals were submitted. When the time came, other groups were chosen over francophone artists. When this was raised with the executive, which was more or less the equivalent to VANOC, we were told that there was to be no interfering with the artistic freedom of the individual responsible for the opening and closing ceremonies. The artistic freedom was to be respected and the proposed artists were not suitable for the program, etc. Thus, it boils down to a creative element. The official languages were respected in that ``O Canada'' was sung in French and English and the master of ceremonies spoke in both languages. But there were no francophone artists present. That was a failure and a disappointment for the francophone community of Alberta, who also wished to be visible. They did not succeed. Some success was achieved in other areas but not these. I am pleased to see that you are very vigilant about these things. But you have to be there from the beginning, because that is when decisions are made. If you try to find a solution later, they do not want to change things. Thus, I agree completely with you.
You answered in part the question I wished to ask. What is the link between you and the Fondation canadienne pour le dialogue des cultures? What is their role in choosing national artists? What ties will they have with your organization? What is your view of the agreement signed by VANOC and the Government of Quebec? Do they support you? Does this agreement remove the possibility of having francophone artists from the province?
Ms. Desjardins: We hope not. I believe that the agreement signed with the Government of Quebec is for translation services. Everyone was afraid of that at first. But I do not think that is the intention at present.
I do not know what will come of it, but I do know that the Fondation canadienne pour le dialogue des cultures, with which I am working, mainly on the national committee and the arts and culture committee, will ensure that there is national representation. Naturally, the other provinces cannot be excluded from the Games, but we will ensure that francophones from all parts of Canada are present. The Fondation canadienne pour le dialogue des cultures is the first point of contact of COVAN for the francophonie. There are teams present in several provinces. I have here the list of names.
Senator Tardif: Is it working well so far? Are you satisfied?
Ms. Desjardins: Yes, to date it is going well. I have already had one meeting and there will be another at the beginning of December. We have been able to reach an agreement with regard to the representation of each province. There are a large number of artists, particularly Acadians, those from Manitoba, Alberta and Saskatchewan as well as British Columbia. A good representation of artists. Everything is being put in to play to ensure the appropriate representation of artists and artisans. I hope we will succeed because we are working very hard to that end. We have put in a great deal of energy and effort. To date, it is going very well.
Senator Comeau: I would like to discuss those agreements in greater detail. If I understand correctly, there is an agreement between VANOC and the Fédération des francophones de la Colombie-Britannique. There is an agreement between VANOC and the Canadian Foundation for Cross-Cultural Dialogue and one between VANOC and the Province of Quebec. There are currently three groups with special status with respect to the Francophonie. But according to the presentation we heard this morning, the agreement between VANOC and the Fédération des francophones de la Colombie-Britannique provides very little funding.
If I understand correctly, the $40,000 will soon run out. For all practical purposes, between now and the end of the year, they will not have the money to pay the person working on that. It looks like for the next two or three years, the Fédération des francophones de la Colombie-Britannique will not be able to function as it would like. There are existing agreements between VANOC and the Canadian Foundation for Cross-Cultural Dialogue and VANOC and the Province of Quebec.
I am trying to make sense of all this. According to what I was told by public servants during a presentation in Ottawa, the Canadian Foundation for Cross-Cultural Dialogue speaks on behalf of me, as an Acadian. I do not recall having given them that mandate.
Ms. Desjardins: Neither do I, but there you have it.
Senator Comeau: Can you help me understand?
Ms. Desjardins: I will try. I will do my best not to confuse you further.
With respect to the agreement between VANOC and the Province of Quebec, I understand that Mr. Furlong wanted to have translation services into French. I read the agreement, but I do not remember all of the details. Basically, the agreement is for translation services. Maybe it covers volunteering, but that is another story. We do not know who will bring them here and pay for them.
Someone in the Canadian Foundation for Cross-Cultural Dialogue, I do not remember who, asked about appointing someone to represent francophone communities across Canada. I think it was Mr. Lussier from OLSPB who said that the Canadian Foundation for Cross-Cultural Dialogue should be given the mandate to talk to VANOC so there would be one person answering and liaising on behalf of the rest. I belong to two committees: the arts and culture sector committee, which includes the Fédération culturelle canadienne-française and the Conseil culturel artistique francophone; and the Canadian Foundation for Cross-Cultural Dialogue, which is supported by people in a number of provinces. I am not there to promote the British Columbia arts sector, but to look at what is coming from elsewhere.
I am a member of a national committee because I am from the host province and the spokesperson for francophone arts and culture in British Columbia.
The others are members of the national committee, which is developing our action plan. We will agree on an action plan with VANOC. We want a francophone presence from various sectors and we will probably have a plan for projects we want to undertake. We are not talking about money yet; all of this is hypothetical. That is how I see it. The agreement did not come with any funding, that is for sure. The Fédération des francophones de la Colombie- Britannique is overseeing the agreement. As I said, this is between the francophone community — divided into community, economic and arts and culture sectors — and VANOC. At the time, there was no program director; there was just an intention. We know that arts and culture will be a big part of the event, almost as big as sport itself. I think the two are almost equally important. I think that VANOC was afraid of all those organizations that were talking about arts and culture — the Canadian arts coalition, the CCA, and so on. We decided to do this and see how it works out over time. But I hope they will come back and ask us to participate. We know the economic sector has buying power; they do not have a lot of economic problems. The economy is good; they have money. The arts and culture should be getting some support. When I met with the Games Secretariat, I told them we need a cheque. But they do not realize it. We asked VANOC and they said there is no money. Nobody anywhere said there is any money. The only place that has money is 2010 Legacies Now. I do not know if VANOC or the program director have money. Who will they hire to be the artistic director? I hope I have cleared things up for you a little on that issue.
Senator Comeau: That helped a little.
Ms. Desjardins: I would like to help you more.
Senator Comeau: You said it was probably the Director General of the Official Languages Support Programs who asked VANOC for funding?
Ms. Desjardins: Hubert.
Senator Comeau: What would be the best group to represent Canada's francophones and Acadians? Do you know if the foundation has funding available?
Ms. Desjardins: I know they do not have much. They have some, but they are secretive; they are not transparent.
Senator Comeau: We can find out more about that. This morning, we learned that the Fédération des francophones de la Colombie-Britannique did not have any.
Ms. Desjardins: We do not have any either, and God knows I need a coordinator.
Senator Comeau: There is another group here in British Columbia — will you be trying to get volunteers and people from them to make this a success?
Ms. Desjardins: Absolutely. This is an incredible opportunity. We cannot miss this unique opportunity to showcase ourselves just because there is no money. There is money out there somewhere. Canada has multi-billion dollar surpluses. Something must be done.
Senator Comeau: We will see, because I heard that the federal government will be very involved in the 2010 Winter Olympics. There must be some money somewhere. We will check.
Ms. Desjardins: They are not very forthcoming.
Senator Comeau: During your presentation, you talked about the people you met at VANOC. This is what you said in your presentation document:
Their presentation will be in English because the two individuals responsible for the cultural unit are unilingual anglophones. Perhaps we will have the pleasure of listening to them in both of Canada's official languages.
What did you mean by that? Are they unilingual?
Ms. Desjardins: I hope that on Thursday, we will be able to have our meeting in English and in French. Currently, my communication with them goes through Francine Bolduc because I have not met this person yet.
Mr. Robert has not been introduced to the francophone community yet, but he will be on Thursday. I met him when I started this job. We said hello and that was it. I am not trying to insult anyone. I understand perfectly well because I, myself, sometimes use the wrong words in English and that is embarrassing. It depends on the audience. Nevertheless, I would like some reciprocity and exchange between senior public servants and the people. Obviously, we live in a bilingual country.
Senator Robichaud: I am having a hard time following because there are many organizations and lots of people working to organize this event. What worries me most is knowing that so many people are involved with this organization but there is not enough money to do things properly. As a representative of artists and the cultural sector, if you are not happy with what you are seeing or if things are happening that you do not agree with, how do you communicate that to VANOC? Before you can accomplish what you set out to do, you will have to make several major leaps forward.
Ms. Desjardins: Yes, and that worries me. The Conseil culturel et artistique francophone de la Colombie- Britannique has some very experienced people. I also have a lot of experience after 15 years in museology. I participated in dozens of cultural and paracultural activities to do with exhibitions and theatre and choral events and so on. I worked for worthy institutions, such as the Currency Museum, the Museum of Civilization in Quebec City and Cirque du Soleil. I have a hard time believing they will ignore the expertise within our francophone organizations because I am showing them it is there. I am organizing resumés for representatives of the francophone community who are in charge of the organizations I mentioned earlier, people who have accomplished a lot and who would really be a big help to VANOC.
A number of agreements have been signed. Maybe somebody will throw a wrench into the works, maybe we will not accomplish what we set out to do, maybe there will be too many obstacles in the way. I do not know, but as I said, with one person on the job and a team put together — Yes, we have lost two years for arts and culture, and that is a lot. So I hope the VANOC people will be able to put everything together coherently, all the while respecting our linguistic duality. I hope they will work on the ground with dynamic groups like ours.
That is why it would be good to work with arts and culture professionals. I have nothing against the Fédération des francophones — it has a role to play and we need it. But its people are not experts in arts and culture or in economics. That is why the Société de développement exists. We are on the same level in this province and we oversee a lot of dynamic organizations. Various festival dates coincide nicely with the Games. We even know just how to bridge the gap between the Olympics and the Paralympics. I can organize my festivals to make it happen. I even have experience with an international organization that specializes in artistic activities for the Paralympics. That is what I can do and that is what I will try to show them. That said, I cannot keep flogging the issue or do backflips in front of them like a Cirque du Soleil acrobat if they do not think they need us. That would be unfortunate.
The Chairman: Especially not without a net.
Ms. Desjardins: No, we need a big financial safety net. That is the point I am at. I need a full-time employee. Right now, I barely have two and a half people, three people in the office. I need two more full-time people. I spend a lot of time in meetings all over the place. I work 60 to 70 hours a week, but as you can see, I am still smiling. I enjoy the work, but I still have to face reality. We are gearing up for the Games. We have already lost two years. We can do it, but we need money. We need to know who has the money and where to go get it. We have already proven it with two or three projects, but I know that there is no money in the community agreement.
So where do we have to go? We are already behind. There has to be transparency. Someone has to tell us where to go and we have to go there.
Senator Robichaud: You also have to start from somewhere. You said that you need money, but has anyone given you some idea of where to get funding?
Ms. Desjardins: I tried to get in touch with the Games Secretariat, but nobody responded. I spent two days in Ottawa to meet with Mr. Lussier and Ms. Toupin. I told them that I need a coordinator for the Games and other things, but nobody is coming through. I saw Ms. Toupin again recently at the Fédération culturelle canadienne- française d'Ottawa. She is still thinking it over.
The problem is that there is so much to do. I have no doubt the Games will be a success, nor do I doubt that people are motivated to make it a success, but I think we will be exhausted in the end because the situation is not ideal.
The Chairman: Ms. Desjardins, on behalf of the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages, I would like to thank you for sharing your concerns with us, as well as your enthusiasm about wanting to succeed and doing a good job of representing artists. If there is any other information you think the committee should be aware of, please do not hesitate to send it along.
Ms. Desjardins: Thank you for inviting me.
The committee adjourned.