Proceedings of the Special Senate Committee on Aging
Issue 1 - Evidence, November 19, 2007
OTTAWA, Monday, November 19, 2007
The Special Senate Committee on Aging met this day at 1:05p.m., pursuant to rule88 of the Rules of the Senate, to organize the activities of the committee.
[English]
Ms.Keli Hogan, Clerk of the Committee: Honourable senators, there is a quorum. As clerk of your committee, it is my duty to preside over the election of the chair. I am ready to receive a motion to that effect.
Senator Keon: I nominate Senator Carstairs.
Ms.Hogan: Any other nominations? There being none, is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
Ms.Hogan: The motion is carried.
Senator Sharon Carstairs (Chair) in the chair.
The Chair: Honourable senators, the next item on our agenda is the election of a deputy chair. Senator Cordy?
Senator Cordy: I would like to nominate Senator Keon.
The Chair: Senator Keon's name has been moved by Senator Cordy. Is it agreeable with members of the committee that the Honourable Senator Keon be deputy chair?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: We now move to the third item on the list of things to do, a Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure.
Before I do that, honourable senators, I will remind you that that is not the way this committee has functioned. We have made decisions as a whole committee because we are so small. The only thing that the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure has ever been asked to do is to sign off on some business matters. All decisions will continue to be made by the committee as a whole and not by a Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure, but I think we should have a subcommittee. Will someone move that?
Senator Keon: I so move.
The Chair: It is moved by Senator Keon that the subcommittee be composed of the chair, the deputy chair and one other member of the committee to be designated after the usual consultation, and that the subcommittee be empowered to make decisions on behalf the committee with respect to its agenda, to invite witness and schedule hearings. Is that agreeable, honourable senators?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: The next item is a motion to print the committee's proceedings. It is moved by Senator Chaput that the committee print it is proceedings and that the chair be authorized to set the number to meet the demand.
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: The next item is authorization to hold meetings and to print evidence when quorum is not present. Can I have a mover for that motion?
Senator Chaput: I so move.
The Chair: Senator Chaput moves that, pursuant to rule89, the chair be authorized to hold meetings, to receive and authorize the printing of the evidence when a quorum is not present, provided that a member of the committee from both the government and opposition be present. Is that agreed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Could I have a senator move a motion concerning the financial report?
Senator Stratton: I so move.
The Chair: Senator Stratton moves that the committee adopt the draft first report, prepared in accordance with rule104 — that, honourable senators, is our expenses. I thought honourable senators might like to know exactly what those expenses were. That is always something of interest to the Senate itself. We have done our usual good work in that respect, and I think the total figure is $55,186, and that includes $16,129 for witnesses' expenditures. We are at the $39,000 rate of expenditure for this committee.
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Could I have a motion for research staff?
Senator Cordy: I so move.
The Chair: The motion states:
That the committee ask the Library of Parliament to assign analysts to the committee;
In the third paragraph it states:
That the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be authorized to retain the services of such experts as may be required by the work of the committee, and that the chair, on behalf of the committee, and
That the Chair on behalf of the Committee, direct the research staff in the preparation of studies, analyses, summaries and the draft reports.
Agreed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: We now need a motion for the authority to commit funds and certify accounts.
It is moved by Senator Chaput:
That, pursuant to section32 of the Financial Administration Act, and Section7, Chapter 3:06, of the Senate Administrative Rules, authority to commit funds be conferred individually on the Chair, the Deputy Chair and the Clerk of the Committee; and
That pursuant to section34 of the Financial Administration Act and Section8, Chapter 3:06, of the Senate Administrative Rules, authority for certifying accounts payable by the Committee be conferred individually on the Chair, the Deputy Chair and the Clerk of the Committee.
Agreed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Could we have a motion with respect to travel, please?
Senator Keon: I so move.
The Chair: It is moved by the Honourable Senator Keon:
That the Committee empower the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure to designate as required one or more members of the committee and/or such staff as may be necessary to travel on assignment on behalf of the committee.
Is it agreed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Honourable senators, I will be going to Queen's University tomorrow afternoon to teach an elder law class on what exactly we are doing on aging. In September, I was in Newfoundland speaking to a provincial conference on the retirees in Newfoundland. In October, I was in Winnipeg doing a presentation as well. I want to let honourable senators know that even though we were in prorogation, I have continued to publicize our work.
Senator Cordy: On that point, it is excellent to hear about members of the committee travelling and speaking to communities about our committee's progress. In fact, our Rules Committee has identified an understanding. I do not think we have to add it formally here, but if we can informally say that when someone is speaking or attending a conference on behalf of a committee, that the committee members find out about it either beforehand or afterwards. I think it is good that we understand how we are communicating to the public.
The Chair: That is a good point. I will certainly keep you informed of the speeches that I intend to make.
The next item deals with designation of members travelling on committee meetings.
Senator Keon: I so move.
The Chair: It is moved by Senator Keon:
That the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be authorized to:
(1) determine whether any member of the Committee is on "official business'' for the purposes of paragraph8(3)(a) of the Senators Attendance Policy published in the Journals of the Senate on Wednesday, June3, 1998; and
(2) consider any member of the committee to be on "official business'' if that member is: (a) attending an event or a meeting related to the work of the Committee; or (b) making a presentation related to the work of that committee.
Is that agreed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Can I get quick agreement that the speech I will be giving tomorrow will be designated as one of those events?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Next item is travelling and living expenses of witnesses.
Senator Chaput: I so move.
The Chair: It is moved by the Honourable Senator Chaput that pursuant to the Senate guidelines for witness expenses, the committee may reimburse reasonable travel and living expenses for one witness from any one organization and payment will take place upon application, but that the chair be authorized to approve expenses for a second witness should there be exceptional circumstances. Is that agreed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Item number 12 deals with electronic media coverage of public meetings.
Senator Cordy: I so move.
The Chair: It is moved by Senator Cordy that the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be authorized to permit coverage by electronic media of the committee's public proceedings at its discretion. Is that agreed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Honourable senators, the time slot for our regular meeting is designated for 12:30 p.m. to 3:30 p.m. May I have a motion to that effect?
Senator Keon: I so move.
The Chair: Is it agreed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Is there anything with respect to other business, while we are in this sectionof the meeting, before we go into further business?
Senator Cools: I suppose I could classify this as other business. I am curious, Madam Chair, maybe you can provide me with some assistance. I would like some sort of explanation as to my membership on this Special Committee on Aging.
I observed in the Debates of the Senate of last Wednesday, November14, 2007, that Senator Segal submitted the third report of the Selection Committee, which contained the names of the senators proposed by the Selection Committee to serve on this particular committee. I observed my name on that list.
Honourable senators, my office received a phone call from Maria Entwistle. I did not take the phone call, someone in my office did. Ms.Entwistle works in Senator Stratton's office. The message that I received was as follows: Maria Entwistle called to inform Senator Cools that she has been selected for the Senate Aging Committee.
I am just wondering if the chairman or the committee can be helpful in providing me with some explanation of this since I was not canvassed for either my willingness or availability to serve on this committee.
I would have raised these questions the day that the report was presented in the Senate. Unfortunately, it moved ahead very quickly. The chairman asked for unanimous consent to have the report considered immediately, so by the time I got into the chamber, the report had already been considered and adopted. Iwould have preferred to have asked my questions directly to the chairman of the committee, but there are many bewildering mysteries.
Could I be enlightened and perhaps have some explanation of the decision to place me on the Aging Committee?
The Chair: I can give you some information, Senator Cools. When I realized that the Selection Committee was holding their meeting last Wednesday, I spoke first to the whip on my side, Senator Cowan, and indicated that I would be quite happy to have Senator Cools as a member of my committee. I then ran into Senator Stratton in the hall and indicated to him as well that I would be quite happy to have Senator Cools as a member of my committee.
When I went to the Selection Committee on Wednesday at noon, I asked Senator Stratton if you had been contacted, and Senator Stratton indicated that you had. I had understood that by virtue of the fact that you had been contacted that you had in fact agreed. You were, therefore, moved by Senator Stratton at the meeting to be a member of the Aging Committee.
Senator Cools: I still have not received an explanation. You have very nobly given an account of your experience, but to me it is not an explanation.
Senator Stratton: I would suggest that if you have questions, you should pose them to the chair of the Selection Committee in the chamber. You have that right.
Senator Cools: Honourable senators, perhaps we do not understand the situation.
Something has been proposed to the Senate, and the Senate has voted on it and has adopted it. It is very puzzling to me. I have asked questions before and have not been successful in getting any answers.
At this point in time, it is no longer the chair of the committee responsible for this situation. The matter is now an order of the Senate. The situation has evolved and developed beyond that. Therefore, I cannot go and ask the Senate as a whole. Whom would I ask?
The Chair: All I can add, Senator Cools, is that we are quite pleased that you are a member of the committee, and we hope you will be able to provide us with assistance in this matter.
In the past session, we did have a member of the committee, Senator Murray, who was unable to continue with service. Therefore, we had a vacancy and I, for one, thought you would be an excellent replacement for Senator Murray.
Senator Cools: The substantive matter of serving on the committee is a totally different point from the phenomenon of consulting a senator's availability. I think most senators here know I am quite a busy person, and my life tends to be very heavily scheduled at all times.
I guess the real question that is being asked is, who selected me for this committee and who recommended me? I have not looked at the record of the proceedings of the Selection Committee. Who put my name forward?
The Chair: I was at the meeting, since I sit on the Committee of Selection. I nominated Senators Cordy, Mercer, Chaput and myself, and Senator Stratton nominated Senator Keon and you to be members of the committee.
Senator Cools: So then the person who should be answering here is Senator Stratton. Certainly he knows why he nominated me and certainly he would have known that he had not discussed the matter with me.
Senator Stratton: I would suggest again that you go and talk to the chair of the Selection Committee. I am not going to answer that question.
Senator Cools: I would like to say, colleagues, that I find the response unacceptable. Certainly, if someone chooses to move a motion in a committee putting my name before them, it would be nice if I knew, or if that person had discussed it with me. With respect to this phone call from Maria Entwistle, I did not speak with her and I received this message after the fact.
I would like to say that I think it is a very unfortunate way of proceeding. It is many things; it is inconsiderate, but it is especially unfortunate under the circumstances. I sincerely believe that senators have a constitutional right to be approached directly and to be asked for their preferences. I would submit to honourable senators that that is the best course of proceeding and a far better way of proceeding than this. I have great difficulty with high-handed tactics. Thank you.
The Chair: Thank you for your intervention, Senator Cools.
I will now recommend, honourable senators, that we go in camera in order to spend a few minutes discussing the future business of the company. Is that agreed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The committee continued in camera.