Proceedings of the Standing Committee on
Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration
Issue 1 - Evidence for October 1, 2009
OTTAWA, Thursday, October 1, 2009
The Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration met this day at 8:34 a.m. to consider administrative matters; and in camera to consider other matters.
Senator George J. Furey (Chair) in the chair.
[English]
The Chair: Good morning colleagues. Welcome back. Before going to our agenda this morning, there are a couple of issues. One is that since we last met, expecting a rather quiet summer, we have had a number of comings and goings. Senators Willie Adams, Eymard Corbin, Trevor Eyton and Mira Spivak retired, along with two senators who served this committee as chairs and deputy chairs, senators Lise Bacon and Norm Atkins, and we welcomed nine new senators.
Over the summer, as well, we saw the retirement of Mr. Paul Bélisle, the Clerk of the Senate. It came as a surprise to us all. Paul was the clerk for over 15 years and one of the Senate's longest serving employees. I believe his total tenure in the Senate was 38 years. He served all senators of this Second Session of the Fortieth Parliament, and another 118 who left this institution since Mr. Bélisle was sworn in.
At present, there are over 70 sitting senators whose first impression of this institution was a welcome from Paul Bélisle.
Under the guidance of Mr. Bélisle, this committee has implemented many changes over the last number of years, and we thank him for his active leadership and assistance in bringing about those changes.
Serving as chair of this committee, one gets a close-up view of the administration and I am well aware of the pressures that we place upon the Clerk of the Senate. We are a divergent and at times demanding lot and the expectations we have of our clerk can be rather staggering.
Throughout his tenure, Mr. Bélisle dedicated much of his time, including evenings and weekends, to taking care of our needs and those of the institution. For the record today, on behalf the committee, I want to express my appreciation for Paul's dedication and hard work. With your approval, colleagues, I would like to thank him for his unwavering dedication to the Senate and his caring stewardship. On behalf of the committee, I wish Paul, his wife, Danielle, and his daughters Arianne and Alexia, the very best in retirement and in their future.
Senator Tkachuk: I would like to second that, if it is a motion?
The Chair: We will make it a motion.
Is that agreed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: With Paul's departure, colleagues, we are given the opportunity to welcome back into the fold Mr. Gary O'Brien. Gary was a Parliament Hill fixture from 1976 to mid-2006, former Director of the Committees Directorate and later deputy clerk for seven years. Many of us here have worked closely with Gary.
In addition to his corporate memory, including his years as recording secretary to this committee and his expertise in procedural matters, Gary has earned a reputation for being a true gentleman. His unfailing courtesy, penchant for consultation, his cool-headed reflection and his drive to seek out the common ground will undoubtedly stand him well in his new role.
Paul Bélisle has left big shoes to fill but I am confident that Gary O'Brien will be more than up to the task. On behalf of the committee, I welcome you as our clerk and we look forward to working closely with you.
Colleagues, Mr. O'Brien.
Hon. Senators: Hear, hear!
The Chair: The first item on our agenda this morning is the adoption of the proceedings of June 18. I presume colleagues have had an opportunity to look at the minutes. Are there any questions? If not, can we have a motion to adopt?
It is moved by Senator Comeau. All those in favour?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Contra-minded? Carried.
Senator Robichaud has a report of the Subcommittee on the Review of Committee Budgets and International Travel.
Senator Robichaud: I have the honour to present the tenth report of the Subcommittee on the Review of Committee Budgets and International Travel, which includes recommended funding for two committee budgets. The first is in the amount of $250,400 for the Standing Senate Committee on Agriculture and Forestry for its special study on forestry. The budget includes a modest $5,800 for general expenses, as well as funds for fact-finding trips to Alberta, B.C., the Maritimes, Quebec and Ontario.
The committee has not yet decided in which order they wish to undertake this travel, and your subcommittee is comfortable recommending the release of full funding through the end of the fiscal year. However, we were assured by the Chair of the Agriculture Committee that if it decided to cancel any trip or postpone it until another fiscal year, the Committee on Internal Economy will be informed at the earliest opportunity in order to allow the funds to be redistributed to other committees.
The second budget included in the report is in the amount of $8,300 for the Banking Committee's legislative work.
[Translation]
Your subcommittee also considered a request from the Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Trade to divide a planned trip to Moscow and Beijing into two separate activities. The committee had originally planned to travel to both destinations as part of one fact-finding mission. Based on the recommendations of the Canadian embassies, the committee has decided that the trip should be divided into two separate trips, one to Russia in October and the other to China in November.
The committee is not requesting any additional funding or powers beyond what has already been approved by the Committee on Internal Economy and the Senate. Your subcommittee therefore recommends that approval be granted to the Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Trade to divide its activity envelope into two — the first in the amount of $128,753 for the fact-finding mission to Russia and the second in the amount of $266,387 for the fact- finding trip to China. The total allocation to the committee remains unchanged.
Honourable senators, I move the adoption of the tenth report.
The Chair: Do honourable senators have any questions?
[English]
It is moved by Senator Robichaud that the tenth report of the subcommittee be adopted. All those in favour?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried. Thank you, Senator Robichaud.
Senators, the report of the Advisory Working Group, which will be presented by Senator Massicotte with respect to the Interparliamentary Affairs Directorate will be moved down to the in camera session because some of the issues pertain to employment matters. Under the rules, such matters are to be dealt with in camera. We will move the H1N1 flu virus update to the next item on the agenda.
Madam Dodd, Director of Human Resources, will give us an update, please.
Ms. Linda Dodd, Director of Human Resources: Good morning. Our plan this morning is to reduce and mitigate anxieties regarding H1N1. Recently, a colleague of mine reminded me that when we were in Regina speaking to pandemics, they kept calling it the "hinie" flu, and that term has come up again. Our overview is to remind us that the Senate, as the employer, has some key responsibilities for the health and safety of all people working in our environment. Employees and others working in our environment also have some key responsibilities to ensure that their own health and safety do not have a negative impact on themselves or others; and that is a fundamental message. I was planning to give a brief overview of what we have been doing since the spring initiatives: the summer initiatives, the current initiatives and moving into the future.
I will begin with an overview of wave one, which led to the spring initiatives.
[Translation]
Partnerships were quickly been forged with the House of Commons, the Library of Parliament, the Treasury Board Secretariat and Operation INTERSECT. In addition, committees were set up with the administration and members are meeting regularly. The Communication Branch responded promptly and efficiently to the situation.
[English]
We have had regular updates and communiqués. They have prepared posters for us and they maintain ongoing discussions with the House of Commons on their communications' strategy.
Case-by-case scenarios were raised by employees during the spring initiatives. Responses were timely, and I appreciated those phone calls. Travel, as we all know, was a topic of conversation in the spring, but the message was and remains to consult a doctor if you are concerned.
Schools were affected, and our employees who are parents were concerned and preoccupied by this. PPS reinforced the importance of business continuity programs. Union representatives were met with and continued to be met with as the wave evolves. Cleaning was modified and has been maintained as such. Hand sanitizer bottles, including dispensers, were installed in all buildings.
The following is an overview of our summer initiatives and strategies: During the summer we continued to monitor and plan for the fall strategy with the Communications Directorate, HR and PPS, including all external partners in Ottawa and in the legislative assemblies across the country. A business impact analysis was conducted by PPS and all the directors had to review their BIAs.
[Translation]
A health care professional who can advise us if necessary has been designated. Two resource persons are available to make presentations or simply to meet with us if necessary.
Throughout the better part of the summer, we examined working relations and looked at questions and answers and the like to ready ourselves for any situation that might arise.
[English]
We have added a link for H1N1 on Intrasen where one may access all previous communiqués and all links, information and updates as we move forward.
[Translation]
During the summer, we also discussed with representatives of legislative assemblies their respective strategies for dealing with a future pandemic and we remain in touch with them.
[English]
A communication strategy has been prepared by the Communications Directorate.
We are now into fall. The messages on precautionary measures remain the same. Our mothers taught us to wash our hands and that is the key to mitigating the risk of the wave. Regardless, Qs and As have been prepared for all who work in the Senate and are available on the Intrasen site. We also have Qs and As for managers of administration because we are dealing with collective agreements, et cetera. Qs and As for senators and staff are ready and have been distributed for approval. We have been receiving requests for information sessions, and we are starting to provide those in the next couple of weeks for those who require them for their staff or areas.
We have had discussions on the flu clinic. The original plan was to provide a seasonal flu clinic, not for H1N1, on site. However, Ontario recently has changed their strategy. We are having ongoing discussions with the House of Commons. The current strategy is that those 65 years of age and over will receive the seasonal flu vaccine before receiving the H1N1 vaccine. All others will receive the seasonal flu vaccine in the December-January period. We are trying to see what the impact will be for those 65 and older because Ontario is not supplying the vaccine to employers. That is in discussion, and as soon as I have more information, I will share it. We are hoping to have an answer shortly.
On October 15, HR will conduct a tabletop exercise on the pandemic plan to practise a scenario in the event that our staff is significantly reduced as a result of H1N1. We will test the model and share that with our colleagues. I encourage people to attempt a table top exercise in their areas.
With all of the media reports, I have received a number of calls because of the various studies. I am not a medical doctor but we have medical advisers for the Senate. I encourage people to focus solely on two sites — the Ontario health site and the City of Ottawa site — for accurate information. All of the studies, information and media reports increase anxiety; and our goal is to mitigate those anxieties and maintain a realistic perspective.
On future initiatives and strategy, we are hoping that this will evolve without being as serious as expected. We will keep everyone informed through the Intrasen site, steering and the clerk on any changes. We are following the Australia story, where they are just finishing that. Again, they are confirming that although they were aware of this, they were quite surprised how the 20-somethings are affected by H1N1. It is not necessarily our age group, but certainly the 20-somethings are very healthy one day and hospitalized within a matter of a few days. I raise that because we have 20-somethings in our workplace, and we also have parents of 20-somethings who will be concerned. We are speaking of possibly losing that 20 to 40 per cent of employees because of the younger age group. There are fewer deaths associated with the 20-somethings because of their health; however, it is a concern. If they are hospitalized, I am sure the parents will want to be with them.
As the wave increases, we will continue to modify our cleaning functions. We will move from housekeeping to disinfecting, much like the schools are doing, keeping in mind that our cleaning staff may be reduced as well as a result of the wave. The goal will be to disinfect. The dusting and vacuuming will be lessened, and disinfecting will be the way we will operate, but only as the wave increases.
As well, in order to ensure that employees do assume their responsibilities under health and safety, we will also be asking employees to keep their own offices clean and to disinfect their own premises, not to depend on the cleaning staff. Supplies will be provided. Therefore, I will be responsible for cleaning my own office after I have meetings, et cetera, during this period of time. That depends on how this evolves. It is not the state of affairs today. Of course, we will always be reviewing the status of communal areas.
Should the wave escalate, the crisis committee chaired by PPS, Gilles Duguay, will meet, and recommendations will be made to the clerk for approval and to steering as required.
The key message is that precautionary messages can dramatically reduce the upcoming wave in terms of hygiene, et cetera. We need to review what we are doing in terms of our core, essential functions to minimize the impact on our mandate, and to speak with our staff about how we will operate if we lose 20 to 40 per cent. We have identified our core essential functions. Those are the essential discussions to have at this time.
We are pleased to answer questions you may have on our strategy.
The Chair: Are there any questions, colleagues?
Senator Hervieux-Payette: I want to know about the regular vaccine. We were told that this vaccine would prevent the flu for those who have been taking it for years. They were suggesting that if we took the regular vaccine we would not have the other one. Am I right in thinking that we would receive this vaccine and, once it is done, we do not have to go with the other one?
Ms. Dodd: The vaccine situation is still under discussion. As it stands today, the regular vaccine will be provided for those 65 and older before the H1N1 in October. In November-December, the rollout for H1N1 will occur. There will not necessarily be a clinic here in Parliament, but rather through the communities. Following the H1N1 rollout, all other Canadians will receive the regular flu vaccine in December-January. That is the decision as it stands.
Senator Hervieux-Payette: My question is, if we receive one in October, would it be appropriate to receive the other one as well?
Ms. Dodd: Yes, they will encourage the two.
Senator Tkachuk: If you are under 65, you get it at home, and it will not be provided on the Hill at all; is that right?
Ms. Dodd: If you are under 65, the seasonal flu, the regular vaccine, will be provided likely on the Hill, but in December-January rather than October. For H1N1, they are recommending that employers do not provide it in their own areas to ensure that people go with their families to get the H1N1, to encourage the youth to go.
Senator Stratton: There have been concerns expressed for those over 65, that although they suggest we take the normal flu shot, there is also evidence that if you take the H1N1 after the flu shot, it can actually give you H1N1. How do we react to that concern? The advice I am receiving is do not take the H1N1.
Ms. Dodd: The Ontario Medical Officer at this time recommends that those over 65 take the seasonal flu vaccine, because they are less affected by the H1N1 virus and more likely to be affected by the regular flu season in terms of deaths and illness. Those 65 and older who have chronic, serious medical situations will be provided with H1N1 and not the regular flu shot. Those discussions are evolving as we speak. There have been numerous studies stating that if you have taken the flu shot and you take H1N1, you are at greater risk. However, they are more concerned about those 65 and older having the regular flu because of the greater likelihood of deaths than with the H1N1 virus. That is an Ontario medical decision that has been made.
Again, that is why I am referring to all of the media reports, because I received many phone calls on that question, and I am stating that we will concentrate on the two sites in terms of the information.
Senator Stratton: What is your advice to us currently? Should those 65 and over get the regular flu shot but not take the H1N1 unless you have something chronic whereupon you should take the H1N1? Is that yes or no? I think it is serious.
Ms. Dodd: There is some direction on this.
The Chair: What is the direction?
Ms. Dodd: The direction on this as of yesterday is that those 65 and older will be receiving the flu shot. When the H1N1 rollout occurs, they have the decision as to who gets H1N1, and 65 and older as well will receive the H1N1 if they wish, in discussion with their doctors.
The Chair: Am I correct in assuming that parliamentarians as a group are not getting any priority for H1N1?
Ms. Dodd: Yes.
[Translation]
Senator Robichaud: We are advised to see our family doctor if we experience any flu symptoms. When one of our employees calls to inform us that they will not be coming in to work because they have some flu symptoms, how long should we expect them to be off work, to be certain that they are not contagious when they return?
Ms. Dodd: Usually, flu symptoms last from three to eight days. Employees may call to say they are not coming in to work because they have the flu or a cold, but it may also be that one of their children or another family member is sick. The incubation period is usually anywhere from three to eight days. They could be off work for that length of time. That is an average length of time. It all depends on the situation. It is going to be very difficult to know if it is the H1N1 flu, the seasonal flu or a cold. A person will have a better idea after consulting with a doctor.
Senator Robichaud: Employees with young children could be off work for a certain length of time because day cares will be turning these children away.
Ms. Dodd: That is correct.
Senator Robichaud: As a rule, all children do not catch this flu at the same time. One child usually spreads the virus to another, and this can go on for quite some time. Is that not correct?
Ms. Dodd: Yes indeed. Young people under the age of 25 are the ones who are the most at risk. It is really important to discuss this with our employees to see how we are going to manage the situation to ensure that essential tasks are performed. For example, with respect to human resources, these tasks include pay and labour relations services. These are two areas in which I must be sure to have contacts in the community and partnerships with the House of Commons so that the work continues to get done.
The parents may not have the flu. They may be suffering from the seasonal flu, because of their age, but they must also care for their children. Employees of the Senate are entitled to sick leave. However, their spouse who works in the private sector may not have any sick leave.
People must be careful not to spread the flu.
[English]
They wash their hands or cough in a Kleenex. We were taught to cough in our hands and then like this. We have to rethink Kleenex because on a Kleenex the germ lasts a few hours versus solid surfaces. It is so basic that we could mitigate the risks of the wave, or the social distancing or not coming to work. That could reduce it in society.
Meanwhile, we still have to plan and think, and we have been doing that. The administration is looking at what are our essential functions to continue to provide a service and how to deal with it if our employees leave. I would encourage you to do that as well.
Senator Downe: I have a comment on the Q and As, which I think are well done. I would suggest question 20, on page 5 or 50, be deleted. I do not think there is any need of it.
Ms. Dodd: We can remove that.
Senator Downe: Unless someone disagrees.
Ms. Dodd: The mask has been an issue, because we have had a number of people bring it to our attention, so we put it in the Intrasen Q and A. The only ones who possibly may be wearing masks would be the cleaners when we move from housekeeping to disinfecting, but that occurs in the evenings mostly. Absolutely, we will remove that.
The Chair: Any other questions, colleagues? If not, thank you very much, Ms. Dodd.
We will go in camera now and call upon Senator Massicotte.
(The committee continued in camera.)