Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Official Languages
Issue 3 - Evidence - Meeting of April 12, 2010
OTTAWA, Monday, April 12, 2010
The Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages met this day at 5:05 p.m. to study the application of the Official Languages Act and of the regulations and directives made under it. (Topic: Part VII of the Official Languages Act and other issues.)
Senator Maria Chaput (Chair) in the chair.
[Translation]
The Chair: Honourable senators, welcome to the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages. Allow me to introduce myself. I am Senator Maria Chaput from Manitoba and I am the chair of the committee.
I would also like to introduce the committee members who are with us today. I will start with Senator Andrée Champagne, from Quebec, who is also vice-chair of the committee. Next to her is Senator Suzanne Fortin-Duplessis, also from Quebec.
We also have with us Senator Rose-Marie Losier-Cool from New Brunswick, and Senator Claudette Tardif, from Alberta.
Honourable senators, before hearing from the witnesses who are appearing today, I would like to introduce three people who will be working very closely with the committee this session.
Ms. Marie-Ève Hudon, is an analyst with the Constitutional and Parliamentary Affairs Section of the Library of Parliament's Parliamentary Information and Research Service; Ms. Danielle Labonté is committee clerk, with the Senate Committees Branch. We also have with us Francine Pressault, who is a communications officer with the Senate Communications Branch. They will be attending committee meetings and will be available to answer any of your questions. Do not hesitate to call on them, if need be.
The committee is currently studying the implementation of Part VII of the Official Languages Act in various federal institutions. Today our witnesses are from Industry Canada, and they will be addressing this issue within their department.
With us today are Ms. France Pégeot, Assistant Deputy Minister, Regional Operations; Mr. Carmen DeMarco, Program Manager for the Northeastern Ontario Region, and Ms. Diane Bertrand, Associate Director of Human Resources Programs.
On behalf of the committee, I would like to thank you for accepting our invitation to appear. I invite you now to make your opening statement, following which senators will have questions for you.
France Pégeot, Assistant Deputy Minister, Regional Operations, Industry Canada: Thank you, Madam Chair.
[English]
I am pleased to be here today and I welcome the opportunity to discuss Industry Canada's approach and achievements with regard to Part VII of the Official Languages Act.
I would like to discuss three things: first, the overall approach that Industry Canada takes with respect to its responsibilities under Part VII; second, Industry Canada's programs impacting minority language communities; and, finally, positive measures undertaken by the department.
[Translation]
I will be making my presentation in both languages.
[English]
As my first point, I would like to talk generally about how the department undertakes its responsibilities under Part VII. It does so in the context of its mandate to help Canadians to be more productive and competitive in the knowledge-based economy.
As you may know, the department received an ``A'' for its achievements under Part VII on the last ``report card'' from the Commissioner of Official Languages. I want to assure you that we do not want to rest on our laurels and that we are building on that success.
Over the past decade, Industry Canada has held annual consultations with minority language communities generally to determine their needs and priorities. We use the input we receive from minority language communities to shape our policies and programs. The design of the 2008-13 Economic Development Initiative, commonly referred to as EDI, reflects how this input has guided us.
I know that many of my regional development agency colleagues already met with you. As they mentioned, the Economic Development Initiative is the economic component of the government's roadmap to linguistic duality. It represents an investment of $30.5 million over five years.
The Economic Development Initiative was developed under the leadership of Industry Canada, in collaboration with other regional development agencies, in response to priorities identified by minority language communities. Industry Canada, including FedNor and the other regional development agencies, are delivering this funding through their existing programs.
As part of our Economic Development Initiative commitment, Industry Canada undertakes research to assess current and future socio-economic conditions of minority language communities. We want to gain insight into trends and their implications for policy development and program design.
Industry Canada also conducts formal and informal consultations with minority language communities on an ongoing basis.
Focused consultations with francophone entrepreneurs across Canada have been completed and another session with anglophone entrepreneurs in Quebec will take place in the coming year.
[Translation]
Moreover, between now and March 31, 2013, Industry Canada, via FedNor, will invest $4.5 million under the Economic Development Initiative to foster sustainable growth in Northern Ontario's francophone community. To date, FedNor has already invested almost $2 million, or more than half of its budget, in approximately 40 projects.
The Economic Development Initiative targets two categories of strategic activities. First of all, community strategic planning activities that strengthen the economic foundation and competitiveness of francophone communities and small- and medium-sized enterprises; and, secondly, economic and business development activities that respond to the needs of francophone communities and stimulate their growth. In particular, we have provided support for certain initiatives that contribute to economic growth in Northern Ontario's francophone communities.
If I can, I would like to give you a few examples of projects and initiatives that illustrate the diversity of our activities in this region of the country.
We funded a feasibility study conducted by the Conseil des arts de Hearst for a convention centre; we also funded a recording licence with the Canadian Radio-Television and Telecommunications Commission for the Nuit sur l'étang concerts. Another project was the hiring of a young intern at Collège Boréal for an economic development promotional project. Other projects and initiatives include training and promotional tool development activities for the Association des Francophones du nord-ouest de l'Ontario; the hiring of a young intern by the City of Timmins to coordinate the Bonjour Timmins! initiative; the development of French-language archives by the City of Greater Sudbury; and, finally, FedNor's participation at the Place de la Francophonie during the Winter Olympic Games in Vancouver.
[English]
The second point I want to make concerns the economic development needs of minority language communities. Industry Canada addresses these needs through its policy and program delivery initiatives. For example, under the Government of Canada's Economic Action Plan, $2.2 billion was committed through the Knowledge Infrastructure Program to renew educational research capacity at post-secondary institutions across the country. We believe investments of this nature are an important component of our efforts to stimulate economic activity and job creation.
Of the program's total funding, $156 million, or roughly 7.5 per cent, has gone to institutions serving minority language communities — an amount that exceeds their proportionate share of overall population.
[Translation]
Also, at FedNor, for instance, the Community Futures Program supports a network of 24 Community Futures Development Corporations in Northern Ontario, 12 of which have a bilingual designation. As a positive measure, each of these CFDCs receives $300,000 annually for operational costs, and each bilingual CFDC receives an additional $20,000 to better serve SMEs in French.
Also, through the Northern Ontario Development Program — a grant and contribution program aimed at economic development in Northern Ontario — FedNor assists the initiatives of OLMCs, be it for tourism or capital projects, including: a francophone tourism project called Direction Ontario, the leader in francophone tourism in Ontario; a francophone film festival project, in cooperation with the Club Canadien Français de Thunder Bay; a renovation project to create an arts centre in Hearst, in cooperation with the Conseil des arts de Hearst; a project to create a computerized system for the Librairie du Nouvel-Ontario; a project to create management and performance analysis tools for les Éditions Prise de parole; and the hiring of a young intern by the Community Health Centre in Sudbury-East.
All of these activities contribute to the economic development of francophone communities and help them to further prosper.
[English]
The final point I want to make concerns the positive measures put in place by the department. Industry Canada was one of the first federal departments to develop a rigorous system to ensure that all new programs and policies consider their impact on minority language communities and undertake consultations with them as necessary. This policy imperative, which we call our ``official languages filter,'' enables us to maintain a clear focus on minority language community development priorities. We know that many other departments have used Industry Canada as an example and have used the filter and adapted it to their needs.
In closing, let me reiterate that Industry Canada is proud of its progress in promoting the economic development of anglophone and francophone minority communities in Canada.
Thank you again for this opportunity to discuss Industry Canada's role in promoting the economic development of minority language communities. My colleagues and I would be happy to take your questions.
[Translation]
Senator Tardif: I would like to thank you for being with us today.
I would be very interested in receiving an answer to the following question: you referred many times to Part VII and to your commitment to Part VII as a department. Can you tell us how you define the term ``positive measures''?
Ms. Pégeot: As you know — because I am aware of the fact that this issue has been raised with colleagues previously — the nature and extent of ``positive measures'' required under Part VII are not defined in the legislation. In fact, Industry Canada defines ``positive measures'' along the same lines as many other federal institutions.
Consequently, a ``positive measure'' is any significant activity which contributes to the development of official language minority communities and fosters the full recognition and use of both English and French in Canadian society.
I know that, in order to support certain federal institutions, Canadian Heritage and Justice Canada have identified eight measures that we are required to take, the first being to develop and submit an annual action plan, and to make regular reports via the Department of Canadian Heritage.
[English]
Others include raising employee awareness of the needs of official language minority communities and of government commitments; consulting with the affected public, as required; being able to describe the department's actions given the needs of minority communities; determining if the department's policies and programs have an impact on the promotion of linguistic duality and on official language minority communities; analyzing the impact of proposals and memoranda to cabinet on the language rights of the public and public servants and of the promotion of English and French; and analyzing, for every Treasury Board submission, the impact related to the development of minority communities, including the impact of various modes of service delivery on these communities and to ultimately consult with them when a change of service is proposed.
[Translation]
If you would like, I could give you some examples.
Senator Tardif: If I understood you correctly, this is a definition used by many federal institutions. Is it a definition that came to you via the Minister of Justice or Canadian Heritage? What is the source of the definition you just read?
Ms. Pégeot: These are guidelines that have been shared with the departments and that we have adapted based on our own departmental reality.
Senator Tardif: And where did these guidelines come from?
Ms. Pégeot: They basically came from the Department of Canadian Heritage, whose role includes coordinating and supporting the work of departments as regards their official languages responsibilities.
Senator Tardif: You cited a number of guiding principles that involve raising employee awareness, but in concrete terms, how do you assess the impact of your decision-making and programs on official language minority communities?
Ms. Pégeot: Well, I could give you some examples. I referred earlier to the Knowledge Infrastructure Program, which is a new program introduced under the government's Economic Action Plan, to which we apply the ``Filter'' — a policy framework that the department uses every time it develops a new program, Treasury Board submission or memorandum to cabinet. The filter is a list of questions that officials are required to answer to ensure that the needs of official language communities are taken into consideration.
Senator Tardif: What does this filter involve? Can you give us the precise wording of the questions to be answered using the ``filter''?
Ms. Pégeot: Yes, of course. We can provide a copy of that. For example, communications and services to the public; the language of work, in terms of whether there is any involvement by public service employees; the delivery model; the consultation processes that were followed and their impact on economic development in the communities.
In particular, one question might be whether, as part of the consultation process, actual consultations were held; the needs that were identified as a result of the consultations; and, whether they were taken into consideration when the initiative was designed.
Another example is the impact on economic development — in other words, the initiative's impact on the economic development of minority official language communities; whether the initiative will foster job creation among youth in these communities, particularly youth living in rural areas; whether the initiative will give rise to research and development activities in small- and medium-sized universities and colleges that serve these communities in particular; whether the initiative will generate long-term economic spin-offs; and, whether any mechanisms have been developed to assess all of this.
Those are some examples of questions. Every time there is a new initiative, people have to ask those questions and consider the answers in their analysis. In our department, we have a committee composed of different departmental officials whose job it is to ensure that this tool is used before the approval process can be engaged.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: First of all, allow me to welcome you to the committee. We are very pleased to have this opportunity to meet with you. Having read the documents that were sent to us, I must say I was truly impressed by the Commissioner of Official Languages' assessment of Industry Canada's performance. I still cannot get over it.
The progress that has been made since 2004 is truly impressive. Furthermore, you have an official language champion in the person of Nick Heseltine.
Ms. Pégeot: He has left the department, and I have had the good fortune of inheriting that role.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: So now is your turn to act as champion. Are there any internal or external obstacles that make it harder for you to meet your obligations under Part VII? If so, what are they?
Ms. Pégeot: They are not necessarily obstacles; however, the minority official language communities — I am thinking in particular of francophones in Northern Ontario and of certain anglophone communities in Quebec, excluding Montreal — often located in small regions located quite some distance from the major centres. They are the regions struggling with development issues, whatever the language characteristics of the community.
In fact, that is the reason why regional development agencies are in place to assist the communities and support their economic development. There is no doubt that, given Industry Canada's mandate — which is to support the economic development of these communities — the type of region where they are located will influence our ability to have an impact. As I see it, that is the biggest obstacle we face, but it has more to do with their geography.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: Representatives of the Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada who appeared before the committee made the following suggestion — that there be in-depth review of the regulations dealing with the application of the Official Languages Act, with a view to adopting universal regulations in this area that cover the application of Parts IV, V, VI and VII of the Official Languages Act.
The Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada is suggesting that the federal government look at the latest statistical and other data, based on the example developed by the French Language Services Commissioner in Ontario, with respect to the inclusive definition of ``francophone.'' What do you think of the idea of universal official languages regulations covering the application of Parts IV, V, VI and VII of the Official Languages Act?
Ms. Pégeot: Well, as a civil servant, it is not necessarily appropriate for me to give an opinion on whether or not such regulations are desirable.
However, what I can say is that a significant part of the research undertaken by Industry Canada is aimed at better targeting the official language communities and gathering more information about them — again, in the economic development context — in order to have better data on which to rely to support their economic development, identify their needs and determine what type of action would be most effective for them.
Senator Losier-Cool: I, too, would like to acknowledge that Industry Canada received quite a good mark.
My question deals with Part VII. What is your relationship with the provincial ministries with respect to the implementation of Part VII of the act?
Ms. Pégeot: Under Industry Canada's various programs — I am thinking, in particular, of FedNor, and my colleague can elaborate further on this, if you like — a number of projects are co-funded by the province and the Department of Industry.
In that context, of course, we often have an opportunity to raise the issue of funding for official language communities. And we do that whenever an opportunity presents itself. Earlier, I gave you the example of the Knowledge Infrastructure Program, or KIP.
Under that program, a significant portion of available funding — 7.5 per cent — was allocated to post-secondary institutions in minority official language communities. The projects were selected in cooperation with the provinces. This was another chance for us to work with the provinces.
Senator Losier-Cool: That leads me to my second question, regarding programs in Northern Ontario. In your presentation, you referred to focused consultations with francophone entrepreneurs. Are these consultations to be held at the invitation of the entrepreneurs, or will you be meeting with them?
Ms. Pégeot: It is a combination of the two. We are open to meeting with the entrepreneurs themselves, or the associations that represent them. For example, last March, I had an opportunity to meet with the Réseau de développement économique et d'employabilité. This is a network that focuses on economic development in minority official language communities. They were able to describe the kind of activities they are involved in and we also talked about possible joint projects.
It is certainly our intention to take a more systematic approach to consultations. What we would like to do is hold consultations, on an annual basis and at a predetermined date, with the various community representatives. We are already doing that, but we would like to take a more systematic approach, so that consultations can be better planned.
For example, as regards FedNor, there have been meetings with committees and groups that are part of the francophone community. Economic Development Initiative coordinators have held monthly meetings that have been attended by FedNor officials.
There has been a formal meeting and informal discussions with the Regroupement de développement économique et d'employabilité. There have also been four meetings with the Association des francophones du nord-ouest de l'Ontario.
Last June, we met with the Club canadien-français de Thunder Bay, and there were also two meetings with the Regroupement des organismes francophones de Thunder Bay. As well, we had two meetings with the Société du développement économique de Greene Stone. We are trying to reach out to the communities and offer them an opportunity to get together.
[English]
Carmen DeMarco, Program Manager, Program Delivery Northeastern Ontario, Program Delivery, Industry Canada: Some of our strongest work with small business in Northern Ontario is through the Community Futures Development Corporations. As mentioned earlier, 12 of the 24 are in official language minority communities. Along with the protocol that we have compliance on a number of areas on official languages, we also encourage proactive measures with those organizations, which include speaking directly with SMEs on a regular basis. We work with them, with our community partners, to hear about the issues and needs of small business throughout Northern Ontario. We probably get most of our input on official languages issues through the SMEs.
Senator Losier-Cool: Am I to understand that if a small business — a francophone entrepreneur or an anglophone entrepreneur from Quebec — has a project or a program, and Industry Canada, your department, provides some funding, the entrepreneur is subject to the Official Languages Act?
Mr. DeMarco: We give very little direct assistance to small business through our programming. It is all done through the Community Futures organizations. In these communities, the language of business is whatever the language may be. There is no requirement that that business follow strict official languages requirements through the funding.
[Translation]
Ms. Pégeot: However, in administering our programs, we obviously have to comply with the act.
Senator Losier-Cool: I understand that the act applies to all federal departments. I also understand that the projects and programs you have initiated in Northern Ontario through FedNor are aimed at francophones in minority communities?
Mr. DeMarco: Yes.
Ms. Pégeot: Part of FedNor's funding is dedicated to these communities, and other parts of the funding are allocated to projects designed to foster economic development in Northern Ontario.
Most of FedNor's grants and contributions money is allocated to non-governmental organizations. A small amount of that money is allocated for contributions made directly to companies.
Unlike the Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of Quebec or ACOA, which use their grants and contributions to provide direct contributions to companies, FedNor seldom operates in that manner.
Senator Losier-Cool: Do you have ways of measuring the linguistic impact of these programs? When the Department of the Environment decides to put up a dam somewhere in the far north, it has to measure the environmental impact.
Would it be possible to measure the linguistic impact of an official languages program in terms of it being a ``positive measure''?
Ms. Pégeot: The results that Industry Canada measures are obviously based on its economic development mandate. The type of data that we collect relates to the number of jobs created.
It would be possible to provide data on the impact in terms of the number of jobs created and the number of projects funded in these communities, but not necessarily on the linguistic impact per se, because the department's mandate is more related to economic development.
Senator Losier-Cool: Thank you.
The Chair: My question is a follow-up to the one posed by Senator Losier-Cool. How do you go about evaluating the money under the Roadmap for minority francophone communities if you are having difficulty assessing the linguistic impact?
Ms. Pégeot: One of the premises we work under is that, by supporting the communities' economic development, we are obviously supporting their sustainability and growth. We are supporting their continued existence. By fostering economic development in these communities, we are helping them by supporting the fact of their minority status. In our case, the focus is on Northern Ontario. So, we help francophones in Northern Ontario.
I have results in terms of the number of projects approved for FedNor as a whole. I also have results relating to the number of projects supported under the Economic Development Initiative. If you like, we could certainly collate results on project impact in terms of job creation.
The Chair: Could you forward that information to us?
Ms. Pégeot: Yes, certainly. For example, between April 1, 2007 and March 31, 2010, 15 per cent of FedNor projects targeted the francophone community. Over a three-year period, those projects represented an investment of $6.5 million.
What is interesting is the increase in numbers and percentages. In 2007-2008, 33 of the 265 projects approved by FedNor — 12 per cent — targeted the francophone community, for a total of $360,000.
In 2008-2009, it was 10 per cent of projects, and in 2009-2010, 67 of the 313 projects approved — or 21 per cent — benefited the francophone community. That represented an investment of about $240,000.
The Chair: Thank you very much, Ms. Pégeot.
Senator De Bané: Madam Chair, thank you. Madam Assistant Deputy Minister, in the past year, there was an important decision by the Supreme Court in the Desrochers case, where the Supreme Court ruled that the necessary steps must be taken to ensure that anglophones and francophones contribute equally to the definition and delivery of services.
Has your department looked at the Supreme Court decision? And to what extent are your programs consistent with the interpretation found in that ruling?
Ms. Pégeot: In fact, I would say that we had already begun to consider that before we even had the actual ruling. As you know, that case lasted several years. To some extent, it was with that in mind that we developed the filter I referred to earlier, in order to ensure that all new initiatives would reflect the needs of minority official language communities. That is one example of how we changed our procedures.
Of course, we are also working with all the other departments, to determine how to act on that ruling. A departmental working group has been struck to follow up on this issue. We are working with the other departments, including the Treasury Board, to see what steps need to be taken.
I could give you other more specific examples — for instance, the type of changes that have been introduced at FedNor to support Northern Ontario francophone communities. When we decided to designate bilingual CFDCs, FedNor was covering all of Ontario. Since the creation of the Federal Economic Development Agency for Southern Ontario, part of those responsibilities have been transferred to the new agency. However, there are basically 18 CFDCs for Ontario as a whole which are designated as bilingual; 12 of those 18 are in Northern Ontario. In fact, there are 24 CFDCs, or Community Futures Development Corporations — in Northern Ontario. So, 12 of those 24 are designated as bilingual. What we have done with those CFDCs is give them an extra $20,000 so that they can adapt their services to the francophone communities in Northern Ontario.
In some cases, these CFDCs did not necessarily have staff who were proficient in both official languages. When there was no one available who could speak French, we paid for an additional staff person so that the francophone community could receive services, until such time as someone left the organization, at which point the position could be staffed with someone able to speak both languages. That was one step that was taken when this issue was referred to the court.
[English]
Mr. DeMarco: Each of those 18, and 12 in Northern Ontario, must submit an annual action plan to us at their point of renewal. They come back to FedNor or to FedDev for a renewal of their operating funds each year. When they do so, they must submit an official languages plan that describes in great detail staffing, communications, active offers, service delivery and so on. We monitor it carefully. This is something that started at about the same time CALDECH became an issue.
Senator De Bané: What is troubling is that you emphasize that in all your new policies, programs and initiatives, this aspect is being taken care of. What about the hundreds of programs already within the department? Will you apply the same meticulous examination you will be doing for new initiatives, as you have emphatically said, to all the programs that exist in the department? I would like to know if you are going to pay the same attention to them.
Ms. Pégeot: The program that Mr. DeMarco is referring to under FedNor is not new. It has existed for quite a while.
[Translation]
Senator De Bané: With all due respect, I am looking at the text of your presentation. I would like to quote from page 5:
The final point I wanted to make concerns the positive measures put in place by the Department . . . to ensure that all new programs and policies consider their impact on minority language communities . . .
That seems admirable, but my question is: what happens with all the existing programs?
You underscore the fact that new programs will benefit from this added attention. However, I would like you to reflect on this and undertake the same sort of review in relation to existing programs. Departmental budgets are limited. There are not many new programs coming onstream every year, but there are hundreds of them that are already in place, and those are the ones I am interested in.
My other point has to do with another matter. I have noticed that, increasingly, federal institutions have a francophone presence — which is perfectly normal — in Quebec. All the efforts being made to hire an additional staff person here and there to work in this or the other community are all well and good, but the fact remains that Radio- Canada is still the best way to reach people.
Basically, what we are seeing with Radio-Canada is that, in fact, the French-language service should be called ``Radio-Québec'' rather than Radio-Canada, because the attention it pays to the rest of Canada is really quite minimal. In terms of helping the francophone communities in the different regions of the country, it is fine to send them one or two additional staff members, or a grant, but the fact remains that there is hardly ever any mention of the francophone communities in Canada on Radio-Canada's network. They are even referred to as communities that are ``outside Quebec,'' as if Quebec was a world in itself and they are outside of that world. Clearly, it is not up to us to make representations to Radio-Canada. However, it would be a good idea for you to provide grant money to French- speaking communities in New Brunswick, Ontario and Western Canada so that they could carry out a study as to how Radio-Canada could serve them better, and then present their report to Radio-Canada management.
I would like to give you a very simple example.
In the region where we live, there is one francophone newspaper — Le Droit. That newspaper covers both sides of the Ottawa River. In terms of local news on Radio-Canada, you would swear that all there is is Gatineau — nothing more.
I would like you to reflect on that, because the most powerful lever, by far, is Radio-Canada, and I am certain it is not serving the minority francophone community as it should.
One exception was a Radio-Canada crew that was in Vancouver for the Olympic Games, but other than that sort of event, it seems as though they confine themselves exclusively to Quebec.
In other words, what I would like is for us to one day have a Radio-Canada service that covers all of French Canada, just as Euronews covers all the countries of the European Union. It does not cover just one country; it covers the entire European Union. Unfortunately, Radio-Canada does not do that. It is Quebec, and Quebec alone. And I find myself thinking that when my francophone colleagues from other provinces see that —
In any case, I feel perfectly comfortable telling you that if you could help them conduct a study in that area and defend their point of view — you would not do the study; they would — but you would give them the sinews of war, as the expression goes — money.
Ms. Pégeot, the most significant feature of these times is that this is the era of the media, of communications. And I see that at Radio-Canada, the minority francophone dimension is completely absent.
Senator Tardif: I have a supplementary question. I support the comments made by my colleague, Senator De Bané. However, even though I support what he said, I do not necessarily want to talk about Radio-Canada.
However, he did raise the matter of official language communities across the country. You have cited many examples of projects delivered in Northern Ontario. But can you give me examples of projects that are being carried out in Western Canada, for example? I am from Edmonton, Alberta. Do you have examples of projects that you supported for francophone communities in Alberta or elsewhere in Western Canada?
I am sure that my colleague, Senator Mockler, will be asking the same question about the Atlantic region.
Ms. Pégeot: The reason I made frequent references to Northern Ontario is that Industry Canada is responsible for FedNor, which is the Economic Development Agency for Northern Ontario. The way the Economic Development Initiative has been organized under the Roadmap means that the money is basically distributed across the various economic development agencies. Therefore, ACOA — the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency — received part of the overall amount to cover the four Atlantic provinces; in Quebec, the Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of Quebec obviously received its share; and, it was the same thing for Western Economic Diversification. And then the new Federal Economic Development Agency for Southern Ontario, as well as FedNor, received funding to cover their specific regions. I know that the ministers who appeared before the committee referred to the areas they cover through their specific agencies, and, in our case, we spoke primarily of Northern Ontario.
Having said that, there are other Industry Canada programs, and I could give you some examples relating to the Knowledge Infrastructure Program, which was created under last year's Economic Action Plan. Some contributions were made, for example, to the Collège universitaire de Saint-Boniface, to the Université de Moncton — I could provide the specific amounts or perhaps forward that information to you — to the Université Sainte-Anne, Collège de l'Acadie, the Collège communautaire du Nouveau-Brunswick, and the Cité collégiale in Ontario. That way, we were able to —
Senator Mockler: Can you provide us with the specific amounts?
Ms. Pégeot: Yes, of course. The Collège universitaire de Saint-Boniface received $3 million; Laurentian University, $5 million; the University of Ottawa, $30 million; Moncton received $11 million; and, the Collège de l'Acadie, Université Sainte-Anne received $1 million. But I can provide the list.
Senator Mockler: We have to list them for the record.
The Chair: Time is moving on, senator. And there are other questions.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: Just as a follow-up to comments made by other honourables senators, could you tell me whether, in your opinion, the Roadmap is lacking with respect to communications?
Ms. Pégeot: I am sorry, could you clarify your question for me?
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: Over the weekend, I reread the Roadmap for Linguistic Duality in Canada 2008-2013, and I wrote down a small part of what it says, particularly because it relates to communications.
It states:
Our goal is to support the cultural vitality of communities by emphasizing the value of increased knowledge of both the English and French languages and access to services for official language minority communities.
In your opinion, is the Roadmap deficient when it comes to communications?
Ms. Pégeot: I am sorry, but I am not authorized to answer that question under the circumstances.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: Senator De Bané said that communications were a problem, and that small communities are not well served by Radio-Canada. And you, Senator, asked whether grants had been given in your province.
Personally, I have concluded that —
Ms. Pégeot: What I can tell you is what Industry Canada is doing, because our mandate as a department is economic. In our case, consultations and communication with representatives of minority official language communities occur on a regular basis.
As regards communications per se, given that the department I represent has an economic mandate, I am sorry to say that I cannot provide any information in that regard.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: Fine, thank you. If you do have any, could you please forward it to us?
Ms. Pégeot: Yes, of course.
The Chair: But you are going to forward the list of projects, are you not, Ms. Pégeot? At that point, we may also be able to determine whether you have provided financial assistance for communication-related projects, studies or analysis.
Ms. Pégeot: In fact, if the goal of the project is not economic development, it is not one that would be supported by the Department of Industry. I can tell you that right away. Therefore, the type of project that we would support at Industry Canada would be one involving an economic development plan for a francophone community in Northern Ontario.
The Chair: I am going to give you some food for thought, before I recognize Senator Mockler. When you talk about economic development, in terms of its contributing to the economic development of minority communities, would you not say that promoting these communities contributes to their economic development? I am not really asking for an answer. And would you not say that is a positive measure? I will just leave you with those thoughts.
Ms. Pégeot: Yes, I have noted your comments.
Senator Mockler: First of all, as Senator Fortin-Duplessis mentioned, in terms of Industry Canada's mark for compliance with the Official Languages Act from 2004 to 2006, and from 2206 to 2008, you deserve our congratulations.
On the other hand, I do want to emphasize that the Government of Canada continues to be committed — and I see that you have again demonstrated that in your presentation — to complying with its official languages obligations. And it is also critical that we continue to ensure that quality services are made available to Canadians and Acadians, whatever our particular circumstances in terms of our country's official languages.
I have two questions. Mr. DeMarco, when you talk about renewing your commitments to francophone communities in Ontario, you say that you require an action plan. I would like you to provide that action plan. I would also like to know what factors enter into your assessment of their performance.
With respect to the Roadmap, can you give us any details regarding implementation of the Roadmap in your department over the period from 2008 to 2010?
Also, has the department set specific objectives or indicators with a view to supporting the implementation of the Roadmap?
Finally, I would like to thank you for the $11 million you gave to the University of Moncton.
Ms. Pégeot: We were very pleased to do that. The Roadmap has been implemented based on two main streams. We received approximately $6 million for the department as a whole, including $4 million for FedNor, meaning for different development initiatives in Northern Ontario. The rest of the money was used for a variety of initiatives at Industry Canada, but primarily to support research initiatives. That was one of the priorities identified by the minority official language communities, in order to obtain a better overall picture of their circumstances in terms of economic development, and also understand the type of actions that will foster economic development.
There are different research initiatives that we have funded, including various literature review initiatives. We have also signed a contract with Statistics Canada to examine the census results in greater depth. We have developed recommendations and a performance indicator review that we would like to use for the Economic Development Initiative. We also have joint research projects underway with the Department of Human Resources Development. That is how we are currently implementing the Economic Development Initiative. Our goals are part and parcel of an economic development environment in which we seek to ensure the creation of lasting jobs in the communities, while at the same time fostering their growth.
Senator Mockler: I certainly hope that ACOA in the Atlantic region receives the same mark that you did.
Ms. Pégeot: I am sure it is at least as good. Having said that, my ACOA colleagues really do fantastic work with the francophone communities. I, too, want to commend them.
Senator Tardif: Previously we had the IPOLC — the Interdepartmental Partnership with the Official Language Communities. Industry Canada had worked with Canadian Heritage to develop joint projects in support of the economic development and growth of official language communities. That program was cancelled in 2009; has that had an effect on your ability to engage the official language communities?
Ms. Pégeot: I believe that program was introduced under the previous Official Languages Action Plan. As I was explaining earlier to Senator Mockler, however, the Economic Development Initiative now provides a way to support the economic development of these communities.
Senator Tardif: So, has that program replaced the IPOLC?
Ms. Pégeot: It is an approach developed following consultations with the various communities. What we discovered through the Roadmap is that the communities would like to have better access to local funding. That is why Economic Development Initiative funds have been distributed across the various regional Economic Development Agencies, whether we are talking about ACOA or Western Economic Development.
Senator Tardif: Has Western Economic Development's funding been increased, to allow it to meet needs?
Ms. Pégeot: Unfortunately, I do not have any information about that department in particular. What I do know is that overall funding for economic development under the previous action plan is about the same — within a few million dollars — as what was set aside for economic development under the Roadmap. Approximately $30.5 million was earmarked for the Economic Development Initiative for all the departments over a five-year period and, if my memory serves me, it was about $31 million or $32 million previously. So it is about the same amount.
Senator Tardif: But the Roadmap initiative was separate from the IPOLC program, was it not? And if that program has been abolished, without any increase in funding for the new Roadmap, clearly, the same level of support is not available now.
Ms. Pégeot: What I know about the IPOLC is that it was not renewed after the initial period and the Roadmap kicked in after that.
Senator Tardif: I understand, but I wanted to know the specific amount of money, and we do not arrive at the same number in terms of support for initiatives in official language communities.
However, if you have other information, please forward it to us to confirm the details. That would be greatly appreciated.
Ms. Pégeot: Yes, certainly.
Senator Tardif: In response to a question from Senator Fortin-Duplessis, you said there were not necessarily any obstacles to full implementation. I would like to come back to that and ask you what the missing pieces might be with respect to full implementation of Part VII of the Official Languages Act.
Ms. Pégeot: It is difficult for me to identify a missing piece. I can only repeat what I said to your colleague; basically, when we are looking at economic development in these communities, often these communities — and I am thinking in particular of Northern Ontario, a geographic region experiencing economic problems at this time. The forest industry, for one, has had a lot of problems recently. The challenge of stimulating economic development in these communities, over and above their linguistic character, has to do with the fact that these are areas that are often struggling. That adds to the difficulty. But this is not an obstacle per se. It is part of the challenges we face, and that is why the type of projects that we fund are targeted to that.
[English]
Mr. DeMarco: In addition, many of the forestry dependent communities are francophone communities in Northern Ontario. With the closure of the mills, and so on, there has been a migration out of those communities into the larger centres, which are bilingual but certainly not as francophone as the communities that the people lived and worked in most of their lives. That will continue to be a challenge in Northern Ontario as that migration continues.
Senator Tardif: You are speaking a lot about FedNor, but do you get reports from Western Economic Diversification about how things are going and what they are doing to promote the vitality, for example, of the francophone communities in Western Canada?
Ms. Pégeot: We do not get them ourselves because Western Economic Diversification is a separate department, totally independent and autonomous. They do not have any formal relationship with Industry Canada.
[Translation]
However, we do cooperate with all the economic development agencies and we hold regular meetings. At the same time, Western Economic Diversification is really a separate and independent department, like ACOA.
Senator Tardif: When I asked you what you are doing in Western Canada, you talked about the economic development agency out west. What is the connection?
Ms. Pégeot: Some Industry Canada programs are national programs that apply all across the country, such as the Knowledge Infrastructure Program.
What makes the FedNor programs distinctive is that they are Industry Canada programs that really target Northern Ontario, just as Western Economic Diversification is a department dedicated to development in the western provinces.
For reasons I prefer not to comment on, it was decided that, in Northern Ontario, an Industry Canada program would be the one to deliver regional development initiatives in that area of the country.
[English]
Senator Seidman: I would like to talk a bit about your consultations. Specifically, you say that you have done focus consultations with francophone entrepreneurs across Canada and that has been completed. You also say that you are in the process of doing consultations in Quebec with the anglophone entrepreneurs. Could you elaborate and tell us what kind of issues they are presenting? I am sure that the anglophones in the regions have particular issues. What can you tell us about that?
Ms. Pégeot: Consultations with the anglophone entrepreneurs will take place later this fall. However, I can talk to you generally about the issues that entrepreneurs face in those communities. They often involve access to capital and help to support their market development plans if they want to export, for example. Productivity is a big issue for SMEs, as is upgrading; that is, how they use information technology within the company. That is also very important. These are the kind of issues they will face.
Perhaps Mr. DeMarco, who works a lot with SMEs, could provide you with more information.
Mr. DeMarco: Those are the main barriers. The barriers become even more extreme as you move into more isolated communities in Northern Ontario, for example, issues about transportation, communications and broadband. We have invested heavily in broadband in Northern Ontario through our programming over the years, and that continues.
The other side of that is what we call ``applications,'' using that broadband to encourage business growth. That has certainly helped with isolated areas where it does not matter where you locate. If you have good broadband service, you can communicate with your customers. There are challenges and opportunities as a result of that. As you can imagine, the barriers become even more severe as communities become more isolated.
Regarding access to capital, over the last couple of years, through the recessionary period, we did see a withdrawal of services from the conventional lending institutions. These Community Futures Corporations that we spoke about had to jump in and become a lot more active. In fact, we moved close to $6 million to these organizations in the last year. This is money that they, in turn, loan out to small businesses.
As the economy turns down, the chartered banks often pull back and become more restrictive on their lending capabilities. We have to adjust accordingly. These are some of the major barriers.
The other one is on the human resource side. We have growth opportunities. Finding good employees in isolated northern communities is a challenge. It is not so much our mandate, but rather that of Service Canada, HRDC. However, we do participate where we can to encourage management and entrepreneurship training in Northern Ontario.
Senator Seidman: You said that you have not yet begun your consultations with the anglophone community in Quebec. How will you go about choosing with whom you will speak? Will these people come to you? Will you put out a request for small entrepreneurs? Will you advertise? How will you get the word out so that they will know that you are going to do these consultations?
Ms. Pégeot: We work with some associations that already exist, such as the Quebec Community Groups Network, and there are community tables. They usually represent the interests and preoccupations of the communities and some of the people who are trying to grow those communities economically.
Senator Seidman: Will you collaborate at all with the regional development agencies or the provincial governments? There is the Quebec regional development agency.
Ms. Pégeot: Yes.
Senator Seidman: There are the provinces as well. Does a sense of collaboration already exist or are you planning to have that?
Ms. Pégeot: For sure we work with regional development agencies. They are like our cousins. We have regular meetings with them.
For example, the Economic Development Initiative was developed in consultation with them. All the ministers of all those agencies signed a memorandum to cabinet. We work very closely with them.
[Translation]
Senator Losier-Cool: I would like to come back to FedNor, because there is something I do not understand.
Is FedNor completely new?
Ms. Pégeot: No.
Senator Losier-Cool: The Economic Development Initiative comes from FedNor. And FedNor is the agency for Northern Ontario?
Ms. Pégeot: Yes.
Senator Losier-Cool: Is there something for southern Ontario?
Ms. Pégeot: Yes. A new Economic Development Agency for southern Ontario, called FedDev Ontario, was created in August of 2009. It is a brand new agency.
Senator Losier-Cool: And do francophones in Newfoundland and Labrador go through ACOA?
Ms. Pégeot: Yes.
Senator Losier-Cool: But ACOA did not come out of the Economic Development Initiative?
Ms. Pégeot: Well, the Economic Development Initiative provides grants to various economic development agencies under what is called the Roadmap, a government plan aimed at fostering Canada's linguistic duality.
There are different components to it, and one of the components of the Roadmap is the economic component, which is called the Economic Development Initiative. Funding of $30.5 million has been allocated to the Economic Development Initiative to fund special projects and support economic development in minority official language communities. That funding has been distributed across the different economic development agencies, like ACOA, Western Economic Diversification and FedNor.
Senator Losier-Cool: What FedNor does is so well defined. My last question is for Ms. Pégeot, who will be Industry Canada's champion. Does Industry Canada provide language training? Is your department one of the ones mentioned in Le Droit newspaper this morning, which provides statistics on organizations that consider bilingualism to be too costly?
Ms. Pégeot: Every department has an official languages champion. Someone is designated for each department. I do not have the privilege of being the only one.
Senator Losier-Cool: But you are the Industry Canada champion.
Ms. Pégeot: Yes, I am, for Industry Canada. With respect to language training, with me today is Ms. Bertrand, from Industry Canada's Human Resources Branch, who is in a better position to answer your question.
Diane Bertrand, Associate Director, HR Programs, Human Resources Branch, Industry Canada: At Industry Canada, language training is provided to employees, both full-time and part-time training.
Some employees are appointed on a non-imperative basis and are therefore not required to meet the language requirements at the time of their appointment. They have two years to meet the language requirements of their position.
Language training is also available to employees as part of their career development. Industry Canada aims to be a top-rate employer that is able to retain its staff.
The Career and Employee Development Program includes language training. Every organization in the department has selection criteria for language training.
Have the employees made an effort on their own time? For example, have they taken an evening course? Do they listen to CDs in French or read newspapers in French? Have they been with the organization for a long time? Are they still on probation? There are a variety of criteria to be met. Employees are made aware of the criteria to ensure that the employee selection process for language training is a transparent one.
So, yes, language training is provided at different levels. The department also has a continuous service offer with eight schools, primarily in the National Capital Region, because here is where most of our employees are located. All of this is aimed at facilitating and accelerating language training.
Senator Losier-Cool: And are you able to tell us what percentage that represents, in terms of Industry Canada's entire budget? Is language training expensive?
Ms. Bertrand: Based on the years for which figures were quoted in the newspapers this morning, in the year 2000, less than $1 million was spent. In 2009, we spent $1.9 million. Therefore, we went from less to approximately $2 million. It should also be mentioned that at the beginning of this decade, the costs of training provided by the Canada School of Public Service were not the responsibility of the departments. The school paid those costs, and therefore, language training did not appear in departmental expenditures. Since 2007, however, departments have been responsible for those costs, even if we send our staff to the school. It is like a private school, and we have to pay for the training. Those costs are included in departmental expenditures.
Senator Losier-Cool: I do not think they are very large amounts. They do not warrant the headline in the newspaper this morning.
The Chair: Thank you, Ms. Bertrand, for that clarification. In fact, the money no longer comes from the agency; it comes directly from the department.
Senator Mockler: Madam Chair, as was mentioned by our colleague, Senator Tardif, from Western Canada, should we not hear from the minister responsible for Western Economic Diversification? Like officials from ACOA and Industry Canada, they could come and make a presentation in front of the best committee of all, the Senate official languages committee.
Senator De Bané: I am in favour!
The Chair: Thank you, senator. Thank you for your presentation. And thank you for providing such complete answers to our questions. Good luck with your work! And, good luck to you as well, in your role as official languages champion!
(The committee adjourned.)