Proceedings of the Standing Committee on
Rules, Procedures and the Rights of Parliament
Issue 1 - Evidence of Proceedings - June 21, 2011
OTTAWA, Tuesday, June 21, 2011
The Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and the Rights of Parliament met this day at 10:37 a.m., pursuant to rule 88 of the Rules of the Senate, for the purpose of organization.
[Translation]
Charles Robert, Clerk of the Committee: Honourable senators, there is a quorum.
[English]
As clerk of your committee, it is my duty to preside over the election of the chair.
[Translation]
I am ready to receive a motion to that effect. Are there any motions?
[English]
Senator Stratton: I would like to nominate Senator David Smith.
Mr. Robert: Are there any other nominations?
Senator Joyal: I move that nominations be closed.
Mr. Robert: Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
Senator David P. Smith (Chair) in the chair.
The Chair: Honourable senators, the next item on the agenda is the election of the deputy chair, and we are open to motions.
Senator Furey: I nominate Senator Braley.
The Chair: Are there any further nominations? Do we have a motion to close nominations?
Senator Furey: I move that nominations be closed.
The Chair: All in favour?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried.
The next item is the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure, and there is a standard motion here. Would you like me to read it? You all have it in front of you. Could I have a mover?
Senator Fraser: So moved.
The Chair: Any discussion? All in favour?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried.
You will see the phrase ``and one other member of the committee, to be designated after the usual consultation.'' I think we can assume that the usual consultation has already occurred, and so I think it is appropriate for us to identify and perhaps even have a nomination for the third member.
Maybe we do not need to nominate, but it is my understanding that Senator Stratton, who is the former deputy chair, would be the third member. Are we all agreed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried.
Senator Fraser: If I may, I would like to assume that was not actually a formal vote, because if for some reason Senator Stratton is not available, Senator Braley may wish to bring another colleague instead, rather than crippling the steering committee.
The Chair: Yes, I understand that.
Senator Fraser: We are all delighted to hear that Senator Stratton will be representing truth and justice.
The Chair: Since it had more or less been tentatively determined who the deputy chair would be, I can assure you that the usual consultations have occurred, because I heard all about it on several occasions. However, your point is well taken.
The next item is a motion to publish the committee's proceedings. Do we have a mover for the motion that is in front of you, item 4?
Senator Braley is moving the motion.
Any discussion? All in favour?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried.
Item 5 is an authorization to hold meetings and to receive evidence when quorum is not present. This is the usual motion for this subject, and it is in front of you. Does anyone wish it read, or can we assume you have all had a chance to review it?
Do I have a mover? Senator Comeau had his hand up. Is there any discussion? All in favour?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried.
Item 6 relates to research staff. Once again, this is the usual motion and you can see it in front of you. Do I have a mover for this motion?
Senator Greene: Yes.
The Chair: So moved. Is there any discussion? All in favour?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried.
Item 7 relates to the authority to commit funds and certify accounts. Again, this is the usual motion on this subject. Do I have a mover?
Senator McCoy, are you agreeable to move this motion? No, she is not.
Senator Duffy was nodding, so it has been duly moved. Is there any discussion? All in favour?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried.
Item 8 concerns travel. Once again, it is the usual motion. Do I have a mover?
Senator Joyal: So moved.
The Chair: Is there any discussion of this motion? All in favour?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried.
Item 9 is the designation of members travelling on committee business. Once again, this is the usual motion. Do I have a mover?
Senator Fraser: So moved.
The Chair: Is there any discussion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: All in favour? Carried.
Item 10 relates to the travelling and living expenses of witnesses, and it too is the standard motion.
Senator Comeau: So moved.
The Chair: Is there any discussion? Carried.
Item 11 relates to communications. Do we have a mover? Senator Furey. Is there any discussion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried.
The next agenda item concerns the time slot for regular meetings. This is the time slot this committee has had for some years.
Senator Fraser: No, it is not.
Senator Stratton: No, this is new.
The Chair: It is 9:30 to 11:30.
Senator Fraser: Tuesdays.
The Chair: Yes, not Wednesdays. It was Wednesday at noon; that is correct.
Senator Stratton: Mr. Chair, if you recall, we met in the last Parliament on Tuesdays at 9:30 to 11:30, and then the subcommittees and sub-subcommittees would meet Wednesday at noon. There are, and were, so many senators who had other committees on Wednesday — namely, Senator Fraser, Senator Joyal, et cetera — that we would lack attendance at the meetings at 6:45 p.m. The committee did not meet on Wednesday at 6:45 p.m. Rather, they met with subcommittees at noon on Wednesday. We have to finish rewriting the rules.
The Chair: Right. It was rare for a Wednesday meeting to occur.
Senator Stratton: Did we have one? I do not think we had one.
The Chair: We did not have one in the last session.
Senator Stratton: I propose that we follow that same format, if I may be so bold as to suggest that — not that we will take this off officially, but that we follow that same format that we followed in the last Parliament.
Senator Duffy: Is it just there as a placeholder?
The Chair: That is fine with me. Was this agreed to by the whips?
Senator Stratton: Yes, in the end it was, but we will have to do it again.
The Chair: I can assume that we will speak to our respective whips.
Senator Stratton: Yes.
Senator Comeau: Perhaps leaving the motion as is, with the provision that we discuss with the whips. Possibly we could leave the motion as is.
Senator Stratton: With the clear understanding that subcommittees can meet any time, even when the Senate is sitting. That is the current rule.
The Chair: We will do that, actually. This will be the theory but not the reality, and we all have an understanding of that.
Senator Stratton: You do not really even need the whips' permission because these are subcommittee meetings. Subcommittees do not require the permission of the whips, so they can meet when they want.
The Chair: We would need permission if we were to move the meeting to another time.
Senator Stratton: Yes.
The Chair: With that understanding, is there any further discussion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried, with one abstention.
In terms of other business, Mr. Robert will to speak to exactly where we are and the appropriate motion to reconstitute the other committee. I think the membership has already been agreed on.
Mr. Robert: As chair of the subcommittee, Senator Fraser could speak to the amount of work that has been done during the course of the last session and what remains to be done by the subcommittee and then for the consideration of the full committee.
The Chair: My understanding is that it has been agreed it would be Senators Fraser, Carignan and Stratton.
Senator Fraser: Your understanding is probably better informed than mine. I have only had informal chats with Senator Stratton and Senator Carignan.
Senator Stratton: That is for the French side. For the English side, it also included Senator Carstairs.
The Chair: She is not on the committee anymore.
Senator Fraser: She is no longer a member of the Rules Committee and is fairly busy doing other things. Senator Oliver is similarly no longer a member of the committee.
Mr. Chair, an enormous amount of work was done in the last Parliament. If memory serves, we have now gone through all or virtually all of the English.
Mr. Robert: That is correct.
Senator Fraser: There remain two or three chapters of the French to give final approval to.
Mr. Robert: Chapters 13, 15 and the glossary.
Senator Fraser: We have then to go once more through the whole thing, rather than chapter by chapter, to make sure it seems sensible to us.
The table is also producing a document at the request of the subcommittee to explain to members of this committee some of the oddities, some of the reasons for changes, and to note some of the contradictions that exist now in the rules or items that may or may not even have legal standing.
As you know, our mandate is not to change the content of the rules, but it has become clear, as we made the rules clearer, that there are some odd things in there. We will have, we hope, a fairly detailed document to help members of the full committee as they contemplate the fruits of all the labours.
May I say that the work of the table officers, and in particular Mr. Robert, has been absolutely extraordinary.
Senator Comeau: It is duly appreciated.
Senator Fraser: For them, this is the fruit of about 15 years of work. You will see it all before too long, we hope, if the subcommittee gets going.
The Chair: Can I assume you are moving the motion for the reconstitution of the committee?
Senator Fraser: Sure.
The Chair: With the membership that it is my understanding has been agreed on, which will be three members.
Senator Stratton: There is no conflict on either side. The subcommittees and the sub-subcommittees work well together.
Senator Fraser: I have one more word of explanation. It was a five-member subcommittee in the past. Theoretically, we could bring in two people to make it another five-member committee again, except that for those two people, trying to catch up would be a nightmare.
The Chair: There would be a learning process. Senator Carstairs has been clear about her other intentions, so I think this is an appropriate makeup.
We have that motion before us. Is it agreed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried.
Are there any further items? The only thing I might mention is that perhaps our steering committee could huddle for five minutes.
Senator Stratton: Yes, I think we should.
The Chair: I think we should. We can meet right here. Is it agreed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
Senator Braley: I have one last question. Did we not pass something that went to the chamber to be debated with regard to a potential minor adjustment to committees? If that falls off the table, is there any reason to have it put back on the table? We had changes to committee structure.
Senator Stratton: That is what we will talk about at the steering committee.
To refresh your memory, this committee is like the Internal Economy Committee. It can reconstitute a study or conduct a study determined by the committee without approval from the chamber itself. This is only one of two such committees, I think.
The Chair: Within our subject matter, yes.
Senator Fraser: Do you need Senate approval for the establishment of the subcommittee?
Senator Stratton: No.
Senator Fraser: Are you sure?
Senator Stratton: Yes. That is my view, humbly.
Senator Fraser: If it is just a working group, no.
The Chair: Quite frankly, I do not think anyone would disagree with reconstituting.
Senator Stratton: I will check it. I am pretty sure.
The Chair: Is there any advantage to having a motion to reconstitute that committee?
Mr. Robert: Not necessarily, because it was taken up as part of the exercise of the mandate of the committee.
The Chair: I think we can have a motion for adjournment.
Senator Comeau: I so move.
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried.
(The committee adjourned.)