THE STANDING SENATE COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND INTERNATIONAL TRADE
EVIDENCE
OTTAWA, Thursday, December 7, 2023
The Standing Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Trade met this day at 11:28 a.m. [ET] to examine and report on Canada’s interests and engagement in Africa.
Senator Peter M. Boehm (Chair) in the Chair.
[Translation]
The Chair: Good morning, my name is Peter Boehm, I am a senator from Ontario, and the chair of the Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Trade.
Before we begin, I invite committee members participating in today’s meeting to introduce themselves, starting on my left.
Senator Gerba: Amina Gerba, from Quebec.
[English]
Senator Ravalia: Good morning and welcome. Mohamed-Iqbal Ravalia, Newfoundland and Labrador.
Senator Greene: Stephen Greene, Nova Scotia.
Senator Richards: David Richards, New Brunswick.
Senator Woo: Yuen Pau Woo, British Columbia.
Senator M. Deacon: Good morning. Marty Deacon, Ontario.
Senator Coyle: Mary Coyle, Antigonish, Nova Scotia.
The Chair: Welcome, senators. I also welcome all who may be watching us across the country at this moment.
Colleagues, we are meeting today to begin our special study on Canada’s interests and engagement in Africa. We received this mandate, as you know, from the Senate on October 26, 2023.
Before we delve into that, I want to mention, as you will have noticed, yesterday we released our long labour of love: our report on Canada’s foreign service and Global Affairs Canada.
I thank you for the contributions that you made to that study, but I also suggest to you that, if you see fit, you may feel free to speak to the report when we get to it on the Order Paper in the Senate. I certainly will. I encourage you to think about doing that as well, as you see fit.
Back to the study on Africa, and to launch our study, we are very pleased to welcome, from Global Affairs Canada — they’re no strangers to us because the last meeting had similar witnesses or the same witnesses — Cheryl Urban, Assistant Deputy Minister, Sub-Saharan Africa Branch; Susan Steffen, Director General, Pan-Africa Bureau; Caroline Delany, Director General, Southern and Eastern Africa Bureau; and Pasquale Salvaggio, Acting Director General, West and Central Africa.
Welcome to you all. Thank you for being with us again. Let’s get started. We touched upon Sudan in our last meeting — that was very focused. Now we’re going more broadly into our study.
Assistant Deputy Minister Urban, you have the floor.
Cheryl Urban, Assistant Deputy Minister, Sub-Saharan Africa Branch, Global Affairs Canada: Thank you for the invitation to speak to you today.
The committee’s study is timely, as the department is thinking strategically about how to advance Canada’s interests through our engagement with Africa.
Thank you for your report yesterday.
[Translation]
Our interests in Africa are evolving to reflect the continent’s increasingly critical role in our changing world. Global competition for resources and for influence is playing itself out in Africa with global repercussions.
[English]
Within the next three decades, one in four people will be living in Africa. The continent will see the fastest increase globally in the working-age population, with a projected net increase of 740 million people.
Abundant African resources are key to the green economy transition and planetary health. The continent houses 30% of critical minerals, 60% of solar energy potential, 25% of global biodiversity and a larger carbon capture potential than the Amazon.
This potential is often impeded by ongoing, complex challenges, including the deterioration of democracy and new, as well as protracted, conflicts.
Peace and security challenges put pressure on the opportunities available for African populations to achieve sustainable development, threatening the economic futures of young people.
With an increasingly polarized global community, the erosion of multilateral cooperation and weakened global governance is a very real concern. African partners and African solutions are vital to promoting democracy and human rights, advancing inclusive economic growth opportunities and tackling debt distress, as well as addressing climate change on the continent.
[Translation]
We remain first and foremost partners in sustainable development — in Africa but also across the globe, building on a proud history of international assistance and deep people-to-people ties.
At the same time, we recognize the enormous growth potential of the continent and are committed to broadening and deepening our economic engagement, including through expanded trade and investment relationships.
[English]
Along with our closest allies and partners, we share an interest in a safe, secure and prosperous Africa.
Globally, we share interests with hour African partners in building strong international institutions to help address profound issues, such as mitigating and adapting to climate change and countering violent insurgencies. There are both opportunities and challenges related to advancing these Canadian interests in Africa.
Built on over 60 years of diplomatic, development and economic relations, Canada’s engagement in Africa is informed by strong people-to-people ties, including the contributions of 1.3 million Canadians of African descent.
Our diplomatic footprint on the continent consists of 27 missions and 5 diplomatic and trade offices in 27 countries, including a new dedicated mission and Permanent Observer to the African Union.
Canada is a leader among the Organisation for Economic Co‑operation and Development countries in gender transformative change through our Feminist International Assistance Policy, which commits 50% of Canada’s bilateral international development assistance to Sub-Saharan Africa.
[Translation]
Africa has the potential to advance multilateralism for the global common good and opens new diplomatic and commercial opportunities that Canada can benefit from.
[English]
Canada is engaged in diverse, multilateral fora with our African partners, including at the G7, the G20, the United Nations Climate Change Conference of the Parties and other United Nations fora.
Canada continues to deepen its relationship with the African Union, including through meeting the commitments made after the first Canada-African Union Commission High-Level Dialogue held in October 2022.
That high-level dialogue was followed by a trade policy dialogue in May 2023. There is a commitment to hold a development policy dialogue in the near future.
[Translation]
La Francophonie and the Commonwealth are also important spaces for Canada to demonstrate support for Africa’s priorities. Canada will continue to support a greater voice for Africa in multilateral fora, like when we championed the African Union’s recent admission to the G20 and continue to support its bid for observer status at the World Trade Organization.
[English]
With this in mind, and informed by what we are hearing from our Canadian and African interlocutors, Canada needs to broaden and deepen its engagement on the continent.
The Prime Minister has mandated Minister Ng to develop a Canada-Africa economic cooperation strategy. The goal is to rebalance Canadian engagement with Africa to better include two-way trade and investment opportunities, as well as engage in more robust economic diplomacy.
Through public consultations, we heard that Canada is too cautious in its economic engagement with Africa, and that we should take bold steps to further foster inclusive economic growth and to tap into the immense potential of the continent.
[Translation]
The Minister of Foreign Affairs has mandated the Parliamentary Secretary of Foreign Affairs to deepen and strengthen Canada’s engagement with African partners, to strengthen our strategic partnerships and to respond to changing geopolitical dynamics.
[English]
The department’s transformation process is also informing efforts to ensure our engagement in Africa is fit for purpose, with the safety and security of our staff remaining our top priority. We look forward to working with you in advancing Canada’s interests in Africa through our collective enhanced engagement.
Thank you.
The Chair: Thank you, Ms. Urban, for your opening comments.
Colleagues, I remind members and witnesses in the room to please refrain from leaning in too closely to your microphone, or remove your earpiece when doing so. This will avoid any sound feedback that could negatively impact the committee staff and our interpreters who will, of course, be wearing the earpiece for interpretation purposes.
Colleagues, as per usual, we will begin with four-minute rounds each; this includes the questions and answers. Also, as usual, you will hear my refrain urging you to be concise with your preamble and questions so that we can extract the maximum from our witnesses at this meeting.
[Translation]
Senator Gerba: Welcome to our witnesses today. I am delighted to see you again, Ms. Urban, as well as the entire team.
Ms. Urban, you mentioned that for the past two years, consultations have been conducted by Parliamentary Secretary Robert Oliphant to develop a framework on Canada’s relationship with Africa. Also, the Minister of International Trade has been working for a few months on an economic strategy regarding Africa. Finally, Minister Ahmed Hussen is working hard to deploy Canadian development assistance on the continent. These numerous initiatives are much appreciated.
How are the different consultations coordinated? Do you already have some general assumptions about a possible framework or strategy for Canada’s foreign policy in Africa, following these consultations?
Ms. Urban: Thank you for the question.
[English]
Yes, that’s right; in Minister Ng’s mandate letter, there was instruction for the government to come up with a Canada-Africa economic cooperation strategy, and there have been consultations undertaken to follow up on that. As well, Parliamentary Secretary Oliphant has engaged stakeholders to get their views on engaging with African countries. We have gathered information from all of the consultations undertaken by various parties, and we are pulling it together, and we are consolidating the input and developing strategies and approaches based on what we have heard.
A consolidated and pragmatic plan relating to trade and investment, economic cooperation, international assistance and foreign policy will help our efforts in Africa, and it will strengthen our ability to deepen our partnerships, share expertise and promote private sector engagement so that we can share benefits.
The committee’s study will be helpful to the department as we are refining our thinking about engaging in Africa in the coming years. In the meantime, we will not delay in the rollout of strategies and approaches — that are in the near term — that we can develop based on the consultations that we have undertaken to date.
[Translation]
Senator Gerba: Indeed, the continent is of interest to Canada, and I see that Global Affairs Canada is working on this. How do you assess Canada’s position today in Africa?
[English]
Ms. Urban: I would say that, indeed, Canada has had a number of engagements that we can be proud of. We have a number of accomplishments, and we have been active in activities in Africa over the past number of years.
I’ll point to a couple of examples: In February 2022, Minister Ng participated in a virtual trade mission to Africa for women enterprises. Minister Hussen was recently in Ethiopia for the Africa Climate Summit. Parliamentary Secretary Vandenbeld attended the Dakar 2 Summit on food security. I would say that Canada is very active and present.
As I mentioned, Canada has 17 embassies and 5 offices. In addition to that, we’re working multilaterally at the United Nations. Now that we have a Permanent Observer to the African Union, we’re working increasingly with the African Union on African issues — with the African Development Bank, and part of the Organisation internationale de la Francophonie and the Commonwealth — in order to engage.
I would say that, to date, our presence has been increasing, but we do recognize — and this is what we heard from our consultations — that there are areas that we want to increase. That includes economic cooperation and economic diplomacy. Some of our thinking — that we have under way — is about how we can increase in those areas so that we can build on our participation, recognizing where we’re at globally right now.
The Chair: Thank you very much. I want to acknowledge that Senator Cardozo and Senator Boniface of Ontario have entered the meeting.
Senator Boniface: Thank you very much for being here, and for your opening comments as well. Our mandate is really to examine and look at the interests and engagements in Africa. I want to come at it from two perspectives. First, I want to come at it from the economic perspective. In what regions or areas do you see Canada having the most interest in terms of both private and public sector work that could be done there? I’ll ask that first; then, I have a second question on security.
Ms. Urban: I’ll begin, and then I’ll turn toward my colleague. There are a number of ways in which engaging more on an economic front with African countries will help with Canadian prosperity. I recently read a statistic that 60% of Canada’s GDP is linked to trade. There are certainly benefits.
We know that Africa houses 30% of the world’s critical minerals, and critical minerals will be important to Canada, as well as supply chains. This is something that we need to be thinking through.
Africa is the fastest growing economy in the world, with an economic growth of 4.2%.
It also holds a lot of promise because it now has the African Continental Free Trade Area, which presents a lot of opportunities. While recognizing that there are some concerns — you mentioned security, democratic and human rights concerns — there are also economic and commercial opportunities. I’ll now turn to my colleague.
Susan Steffen, Director General, Pan-Africa Bureau, Global Affairs Canada: Thank you for the question. When thinking about economic engagement in Africa, we have to remember that we are talking about 54 countries. Your question was partly about where we are most interested.
It will depend on what it is that you want to do economically on the continent. If you’re interested in mining, that is one set of countries. If you’re interested in the automotive trade, which is actually experiencing a vast increase, it’s going to be in a different place. I would love to be able to give you a specific answer, but I don’t think that one can be given, because it will depend on what kind of thing you’re interested in.
What we can say is that, overall, not only is the economy of the entire continent growing at 4.2% this year, but it’s also expected to outpace everywhere, except Asia, for the next three years. There are lots of opportunities, but not without challenges.
Senator Boniface: And not without competition.
Ms. Steffen: And not without competition.
Senator Boniface: The second question is around security, which you know is a big issue. In peacekeeping missions, Canada hasn’t had a strong presence there in a number of years, in my view.
When you look at things like the Alliance of Sahel States, how do you see that in terms of the security? Does that help or hinder in terms of the future?
Ms. Urban: I’ll begin, and then I’ll turn to my colleague Mr. Salvaggio to assist me. There are 35 active conflicts in Africa right now, and there has been a series of military coups. Indeed, there are security problems.
Canada, however, does have a presence in peacekeeping. We have 83 Canadian personnel — that’s military and police — who are in multinational peacekeeping operations in Africa. That’s included in Mali, the Sinai Peninsula, the Democratic Republic of the Congo and South Sudan. The past couple of days, our parliamentary secretary was just at the UN Peacekeeping Ministerial that was taking place in Accra. We have quite a robust peace and security programming that we implement on the continent. To follow on that, and to speak specifically about the Alliance of Sahel States, I will refer to Mr. Salvaggio.
The Chair: I’m sorry to interrupt, but we have run out of time on that segment. We will go back to Mr. Salvaggio for more on this later, with the indulgence of colleagues.
Senator Ravalia: Thank you once again for being here. China’s Belt and Road Initiative and Russia’s political, economic and security engagements have significantly impacted the African political and economic landscape. How would you describe the role that these two nations play in the continent, particularly with respect to critical minerals and resources? Given the fact that they are very well embedded, are we a little late to the party, so to speak?
Ms. Urban: I’ll begin with Russia, and then I’ll go to China. Indeed, Russia has been increasing its presence in Africa, certainly since 2014. It has somewhat made inroads by presenting itself as a counterterrorism and regime security services expert, and by being an arms supplier. We have seen that Lavrov has made three visits. The Russia–Africa Summit took place at the leader level, and then there was the African peace mission to Ukraine and Russia. There certainly are ties between African countries and Russia.
There is a link, as you mentioned, to critical minerals — this has also supported private military organizations that also get involved in critical minerals.
China has the Belt and Road Initiative, which is 10 years old, and that has greatly boosted investments in infrastructure and financing. There have been some challenges with that. It’s led to high levels of debt. There have been some issues with regard to the standards of that infrastructure — and also the types of investments have included telecommunications and strategic minerals. This is all important to Canada.
Domestically, the Government of Canada has been working on the Critical Minerals Strategy, and that work will continue. Now is the time. We are working away. It is part of our thinking around strategies and approaches for engaging with African countries.
Senator Ravalia: Thank you. I would like to shift to the war in Ukraine, and the fact that we have noticed, as time has evolved, there is an increased alignment of African nations toward the Russian axis, and away from the Western axis. Does that have implications for our future role in Africa?
Ms. Urban: What we’re seeing is that there is certainly a lot of dynamism that is happening around global power dynamics and multilateralism. If you look at the big picture — where you have BRICS growing, and then you have the G20 with the African Union joining it as a full member — there is an increasing voice of the Global South, and there is an increasing voice of African leaders.
When it comes to engagement between African countries and China, or African countries and Russia, we have seen that sometimes countries are not wanting to take sides and are wanting to be non-aligned. Sometimes there are policies that are pro-United States or pro-China and, ultimately, pragmatic in their nature.
Would any of my colleagues like to add anything? I’ll leave it at that.
Senator M. Deacon: Thank you all for being here today. It is greatly appreciated as we embark on this work in trying to refine and target the work — hopefully, we will have a number of different projects and sources working together, which will be really important as we begin.
I just want to build on something that Senator Ravalia started saying earlier. In June of last year, the G7 launched the Partnership for Global Infrastructure and Investment, or PGII, which many saw as a rival to China’s Belt and Road Initiative. Can you elaborate at all on this partnership, specifically Canada’s role in it, and if it’s seen somewhat as an alternative to the Belt and Road Initiative in Africa?
Ms. Urban: I would describe it as a value proposition. Indeed, Canada has been engaged in the G7 discussions about the PGII — the infrastructure initiative. Those discussions have been based on what I had mentioned earlier about quality infrastructure.
The value proposition that the G7 countries make is with a view to ensuring sustainable development in regard to the environment, where investments in infrastructure in developing countries can come with standards that are acceptable to us and in line with what is good for global prosperity.
Also, in terms of Canada’s contribution, you see a lot of that in our climate finance commitment, which is a $5.3-billion commitment. There is a number of that climate finance that is implemented in Africa. Canada is increasingly active in engaging in infrastructure, and will continue to do so as part of the G7.
Senator M. Deacon: Thank you. It was mentioned by Ms. Steffen a few moments ago that one of the areas — we were looking at countries and the focus — is mining. As we start looking at synergies and alignment, I’m thinking about that. Canada, as we know, is a superpower when it comes to the mining industry. As a result, a number of Canadian mining companies are very active in Africa; we know that. But these companies are not always welcome in the communities that they operate in, being accused of human rights issues and abuses, child labour and sometimes even manslaughter.
Our Global Affairs Canada staff would be the first point of contact for anyone looking to seek recourse in any complaints or legal proceedings against the mining industry in Africa. What would that process look like from your point of view?
Ms. Urban: Yes, indeed, we have 100 Canadian mining companies in Africa, and we have $37.1 billion in assets. There is a lot of activity that is happening.
Canada is engaged in a number of ways in ensuring that Canadian companies are behaving responsibly when they are operating abroad. We have the Canadian Ombudsperson for Responsible Enterprise, or CORE, which is the ombudsperson that is operating from Canada, and there is a process for launching complaints. Canada is also a member of a number of multi-stakeholder forums, where we engage with other countries, civil society and private sector stakeholders to ensure that extractive industry practices are responsible. We have the Responsible Business Conduct Abroad: Canada’s Strategy for the Future report that we released recently.
Caroline Delany, Director General, Southern and Eastern Africa Bureau, Global Affairs Canada: One of the things that we often hear from governments in the region is a positive assessment of the degree to which Canadian companies are interested in doing their work in a manner that is supportive of communities and that tries to reduce the impacts that they have. The Mining Association of Canada has a tool called Towards Sustainable Mining. It’s a dialogue that they have initiated with mining associations on the continent. Botswana is the first foreign signatory of that particular tool, and it presents an opportunity for Canadian companies to demonstrate a value-add with respect to the type of approach that they take with mining on the continent.
Senator Woo: Thank you, witnesses. It has been at least half a century since African countries were freed from colonialism, but it seems that the whole post-colonial reflection — and the desire to right colonial wrongs — has resurfaced and is gaining momentum. I think about the reparations for slavery, the return of cultural treasures and many other debates that are going on today in Africa and other post-colonial regimes.
How does the post-colonial factor figure into Global Affairs Canada’s thinking about how we deal with Africa? Canada was not a colonial power, apart from our own domestic colonialism. How do we internalize that ongoing anguish and desire for things to be made right in Africa? How does that figure into our thinking on Africa?
Ms. Urban: I’ll begin, and then I’ll turn to my colleagues.
Indeed, one thing we’ll want to be mindful of is that sometimes when there are assessments of what is happening — for example, with a string of coups on the African continent — there is a simplistic way of looking at it, which is that it’s an immediate reaction against previous colonial powers.
I think the issue is deeply complex. When we are seeking to understand it, we seek to look at the complexities and all aspects of the situation.
When it comes to Canada not having a colonial history in Africa, that might also be seen as an advantage for us when we’re developing ties and looking for opportunities.
Finally, on international assistance, we’re also very sensitive, and we’re moving toward strategies, such as what we call localization, where we engage with grassroots to make sure that we are not taking what would be seen as some type of colonial approach to international assistance.
Ms. Steffen: Thank you very much for the question. It’s something that we do grapple with regularly: to ensure, first, “do no harm.” That is a big piece of it as well.
The area that we are thinking very carefully about is the African Union’s mantra of “African solutions to African problems.” We are looking for ways to support those who have solutions that we can get behind, and support them in addressing them, because that means the next time the problem comes up, there is an ability and a capacity to deal with it there rather than have external intervention.
Senator Woo: If we buy into “African solutions to African problems,” and if we accept that many African countries are pragmatic about the way they deal with powers — that we may be less comfortable with — are we also willing to be pragmatic to work with regimes like China and India and their ambitions in Africa for the benefit of Africans? We also have a pragmatic foreign policy, as I understand.
Ms. Urban: If you look at Canada’s Indo-Pacific Strategy, I think you’ll see that’s an example of how Canadian foreign policy can really appreciate the complexities of relationships and be pragmatic in its approach.
I would make a final statement that in the new world, as we are moving to a multipolar world, Canada will have to look at its alliances multilaterally, and determine who will be the best to partner with. As I’ve said, if you look at BRICS in the G20, they represent an enormous amount of the global population.
Senator Coyle: Thank you so much for this launch of our study. This is helpful background information for us: knowing where you are sitting in terms of your process, and where that fits with what we are doing.
Several things you mentioned piqued my curiosity. I like that we are taking a build-on-our-strengths approach, both African strengths and Canadian strengths. One of the things that you mentioned was the importance of strong people-to-people connections, and that being foundational in everything we do. That’s a real asset that we have.
You spoke about the African diaspora here in Canada. We also have an incredible network of graduates of Canadian universities. We have many long-standing partnerships with the International Development Research Centre, or IDRC, and the many incredible leaders who have come out of the IDRC partnerships, or who have been part of the IDRC partnerships. How do you see harnessing that — in reality — in practical ways?
Ms. Urban: I’ll begin, and then I’ll turn to my colleague. When I mentioned that we had undertaken consultations, one of the things that we heard is that the diaspora can play a bigger role in assisting Canada and its foreign policy objectives, and it wants to. I think that is a big opportunity for us.
Senator Coyle: Beyond the diaspora here, our well-connected network is also in Africa.
Ms. Steffen: I want to speak to that overall, and then from the practical experience of my last posting in Tanzania.
You spoke about the graduates of universities, the IDRC programs and our development programming. There is an amazing network — that reaches to the highest levels in many governments — of Africans who have studied in Canada, or who have some connection to Canada and feel a great affinity for our value set. Just the existence of that network when we’re doing foreign policy is extremely helpful. We can connect with those people more easily than we can connect with people who know nothing about us.
In a pragmatic way, most of our missions have an education network. We try to figure out who the graduates and the alum are from various Canadian universities and schools. We gather them together regularly to meet with them and bat around ideas to see what they think we should be doing, and to get a bit of ground truth on how Canada is seen in those areas. We do use that network very actively.
Ms. Delany: I’ll touch upon a couple of examples in terms of the universities in particular, because there is a very robust engagement of universities on the continent. The University of Saskatchewan, for example, has been working in Mozambique for quite some time, from an international systems perspective, in regard to health training. The University of British Columbia and others are in Kenya supporting Kenyan institutions in order to build their capacity on the delivery of post-secondary education in those contexts. That’s a good example where there is a shared interest between Canada and Kenya, which is asking for those kinds of investments and trade opportunities with Canada in order to support their institutions.
Another really good example is the 1997 Audiovisual Co-production Agreement that we have with South Africa, which has resulted in 24 co-productions between Canada and South Africa since that time period. It’s a really vibrant opportunity on the entertainment side as well.
Senator Cardozo: I have a couple of questions. I want to make sure you are aware of a paper that I commissioned earlier this year by Sibongiseni Dlamini-Mntambo, the former South African High Commissioner to Canada. If you are not, I would be glad to share that with you. She certainly operated, while she was here, from a pan-African approach and got to know Canada very well. Her insights about what we can be doing in terms of expanding relations between Africa and Canada will be very good, and I think she will be appearing before this committee, too.
I have two questions: Can we hear more from the Director General regarding Southern and Eastern Africa, as well as the Director General regarding West and Central Africa, perhaps on the economic issues that you are dealing with in those countries? The other question — which I will put to you now in case I don’t get a supplementary question — is about the diversity of the staff at Global Affairs Canada in the unit dealing with Africa. In a sort of follow-up to the earlier questions, are you able to recruit people who are originally from Africa and understand the continent well?
Ms. Delany: In Southern and Eastern Africa, it is quite variable. There are significant opportunities in a lot of parts of the region, like Zambia and Botswana. These are countries where we have significant mining investments; there are a lot of opportunities and also increasingly stable business environments where Canadian companies can operate. Then, there are other countries where the business environment is a little bit more challenging. A really important discussion to be had with those governments and the private sector is on how to support the enabling environment for any company to operate, including Canadian companies. Of course, the peace and security challenges in the Horn of Africa make things increasingly challenging with regard to economic conditions.
The whole region, and likely the whole continent, is dealing with a significant amount of debt burden, which is an important discussion on the multilateral stage. Some countries are very active in terms of their approaches to working with their creditors on finding solutions that will work for them, particularly through the common framework established by the G20, which Ethiopia and Zambia are engaging in while trying to find a solution for their debt burden.
There are also a lot of opportunities in emerging technologies. Information and communications technology, or ICT, is a growing field. Zambians are interested in entrepreneurship approaches to ICTs and clean energy. Malawi is an example of Canadian investment with respect to solar energy on the continent.
Pasquale Salvaggio, Acting Director General, West and Central Africa, Global Affairs Canada: Thank you for the question. The region of West and Central Africa is quite vast and varied. You have differing challenges from one country to the other. The business environment in the Sahel is quite complex in certain countries, where they’ve had democratic backsliding with coups d’état. That, obviously, increases the complexity of doing business. Canadian companies operating in the Sahel are challenged with a difficult regulatory environment and a security context that makes it difficult.
It is not the same everywhere. You have countries where you have success stories. Things are positive and going well, for example, in Côte d’Ivoire and Benin. We have examples of dynamic countries where we can operate much easier than in other countries, as I mentioned, in the Sahel.
The coups are a real problem in my region. We have had a few in the past couple of years, and that has an impact on the business environment with the uncertainty that presents for commercial interests.
The Chair: Thank you very much. With reference to the last part of your question, senator, I know that you are not a regular member of this committee, but the diversity statistics are in the report we released yesterday. I would refer you to that.
Senator Cardozo: I was also interested in finding out more about the unit dealing with Africa.
The Chair: We can come back to that, of course. I want to give Mr. Salvaggio a chance to respond to the second question asked earlier by Senator Boniface.
[Translation]
Mr. Salvaggio: Indeed, the Sahel is one of the poorest, most unstable and most conflictual regions in Africa. It faces significant security, development and humanitarian challenges. The region has experienced growing political instability, marked by a series of coups and undemocratic transitions.
In addition, there are disinformation campaigns that help polarize civil society and increase tensions between governments and their citizens. Conflict, insecurity, scanty livelihoods, absence of state institutions and lack of trust toward the state promote recruitment efforts by terrorist groups and prevent people’s access to basic services.
The terrorist threat from the Sahel has also spread to coastal countries, including Benin, Togo, Ghana and Ivory Coast, whose stability is being jeopardized. The crisis in the Sahel is causing significant displacement of people in directly affected countries, as well as in coastal countries.
In August 2023, there were nearly 3 million displaced people in Mali, Niger and Burkina Faso, including more than 320,000 refugees. Coastal countries have also seen increased numbers of refugees arrive.
During his visit to Chad in May 2023, Minister Sajjan announced funding for a new Canadian regional development program for the Sahel. The program aims to support the people of the Sahel and the region with a focus on gender equality, human dignity, economic growth, peace and security, and, of course, climate resilience.
Canada continues to work collaboratively with regional leaders, such as the African Union, as well as with partners such as like-minded countries, multilateral organizations and international initiatives. At the multilateral level, there is, of course, the Francophonie and the Commonwealth. In terms of initiatives, we are talking about the Coalition for the Sahel and, of course, the Sahel Alliance.
The Chair: Thank you, Mr. Salvaggio.
Before starting a second round of questions, I would like to ask Ms. Urban two short questions.
[English]
Traditionally, Canada has been very active in the Commonwealth and the Organisation internationale de la Francophonie; we are the second-largest contributor after the U.K. and France, respectively. I would be interested to know whether these organizations are on the wane in Africa, as we seem to favour the African Union. That’s the first question.
Second, we know there are 54 countries in Africa. We know that we have 17 missions and some offices. We also know that your department is under a spending constraint. Way back when, in distant memory, when I was working in your department, we were looking at co-locating with partner countries, usually European, in some African missions. They were thinking about the same thing.
I would like to know if that is still a thing. Is that an idea that you could follow up on?
Those are my two questions. Then, we will go to round two.
Ms. Urban: Thank you for your questions.
We remain members of both the Commonwealth and the Organisation internationale de la Francophonie, and we remain committed to working with them. We are the second-largest funder of the Commonwealth, and we sit on the Commonwealth Ministerial Action Group, or CMAG. It is nine foreign ministers who work together and address issues. They have met recently, and they do talk about issues that relate to Africa. It is for discussing values and violations, and that continues.
There is also a reform agenda under way at the Commonwealth in Canada — as a participant — in talking with other members of the Commonwealth toward reform.
I think the Organisation internationale de la Francophonie will remain relevant. It has 88 member states. It is a very large organization, and it is an important organization for Canada because it is a means through which we are working with like-minded partners toward shared values and addressing any kind of violations, and it is also important for the preservation of the French language and francophone culture.
Canada will remain a committed member of those organizations.
In those organizations, the statistic for the Francophonie is that 59% of Francophonie support is going to Africa.
On our footprint, as we call it — our missions and our presence in Africa — this will be a part of our discussions following from the “Future of Diplomacy: Transforming Global Affairs Canada” discussion paper, and how we will implement our Transformation Agenda. There are a number of options for us when we look at our global presence.
Even in a context where we have fiscal restraint and we’re refocusing government spending, we need to ask this: Are there ways in which we can be smart about how we use our resources, and how we are being effective and efficient?
The Chair: Thank you very much. We will move to round two. We have to move smartly, so that means three minutes each.
[Translation]
Senator Gerba: I would like to go back to the strategy a little. Are there any dates or deadlines for it?
Also, I have a question about listening to Africans. You talked about critical minerals, where Canada wants to step up its involvement in Africa, but have you been listening to Africans to see what they want today?
As you know, the African Union has its own vision under the theme “The Africa we want”, and the African Development Bank also has its theme: “The High 5s”. Did you hear during the consultations what Africans expect of Canada? That is my second question.
I would like to quickly ask you a third question. In 2022, the United States hosted the second U.S.-Africa Leaders Summit. That is where they sit down with Africans and discuss possible directions for their cooperation, just as in G7 meetings. Is Canada considering this kind of summit as part of its strategy being prepared?
Thank you.
[English]
The Chair: Ms. Urban, you only have a minute and a half to answer that very comprehensive set of questions from Senator Gerba. Could you send us your reply in writing? Please send it to the clerk, Chantal Cardinal, who is sitting to my left. That would maximize our time.
[Translation]
Do you agree, Senator Gerba?
Senator Gerba: Yes.
The Chair: Agree, good.
[English]
Senator Boniface: Thank you very much again. I am going to come back to the security issues, because I think they are key to being able to drive the economic pieces.
How do you — in your unit — intersect those security issues and human rights issues, as we see a lot of human rights issues being rolled back, particularly around the LGBTQ+ community, and then driving the economic issues? Where do you draw your lines?
Ms. Urban: I will start with a general statement, and then turn to my colleagues for the specifics.
This is of critical importance to our department. We are continuing to strive, including through our Transformation Agenda, to do more in the area that we call the “nexus area,” where we have security, humanitarian and development needs. It is also about how we, as a department, improve in working across all our streams — across foreign policy, trade and development — and how we look at trade and development nexus issues as well. That’s a priority for us.
Ms. Delany: I will touch upon the LGBTQ+ question, because I think it is a really relevant question.
When you are asking a question around where we draw the line, when it comes to the LGBTQ+ community, the starting point is “do no harm” and to understand what the LGBTQ+ community wants from the international community in terms of engagement. It necessitates a variety of approaches, depending upon the country context and the decisions that might be taken by governments at that time.
Our missions are really developing strong networks with the LGBTQ+ communities, and finding small ways — either through the Canada Fund for Local Initiatives or through development funding — to provide funds supporting the more difficult contexts, such as protection funds, advocacy training and those sorts of things. The decision on how forward-leaning and public we are is really driven by that conversation around “do no harm,” and what the communities would find most valuable from the Government of Canada.
Senator M. Deacon: I will be very quick; I promise.
In a study that we’re doing with 54 countries — with the unrest, the complexity and the uniqueness, and with trying to do a lot of learning and reviewing — I’m seeking the best way to understand the present status of which departments are doing which things. When I talked to Minister Ng on Tuesday, we had a talk in this lane. When we talked to Minister Hussen 20 minutes later, we had a chit-chat in this lane. As a committee member, I am just seeking the baseline of the kinds of things that Canada already has presence and progress in. It could be that I need it more than others — I don’t know. My work has been predominantly with Commonwealth countries. Anything you can do to assist us with that is what I seek today.
Ms. Urban: I would begin by saying that, as I mentioned, as we look at the approaches and strategies that we can undertake in the future, we are certainly looking at it holistically across the mandates of our ministers, recognizing the importance of doing so.
In terms of the information about what we’re already doing, there are a number of sources where you could get that information, including the Departmental Results Report and other Global Affairs Canada reports. If there is anything that you would like us to provide you with in writing, we are able to do so.
The Chair: We will take you up on that offer to send us material in writing. This is going to be a long study, so we might as well get that at the beginning.
Senator M. Deacon: I didn’t expect an answer today. I was just putting it out there.
The Chair: It got turned into a question, senator, so therefore there is an answer.
Senator M. Deacon: Thank you so much. I appreciate that.
The Chair: I will ask Senator Ravalia and Senator Coyle to ask their questions in sequence, and then we will try to squeeze in a short one from Senator Cardozo.
Senator Ravalia: My question is quick as well. Given the events in the Sahel and West Africa, and the mass migration that we see toward countries like Libya, Tunisia and Morocco, to what extent are we monitoring these issues with respect to our eventual greater engagement in that area?
Senator Coyle: Given the growing importance of the civil society sector on the continent, particularly around democracy, peace and security, women’s empowerment and LGBTQ+ rights — all of those things — could you speak to us about how prominently, or differently, civil society will play a role in Canada’s new strategy for Africa?
Senator Cardozo: My question doesn’t need to be answered today. I am interested in this material, and you can get back to us later if need be. I’m not looking for exact figures, but with the growing African-Canadian diaspora that we have here — citizens of African origin — how are we involving them in terms of employment within Global Affairs Canada, especially around the work you’re doing on an Africa strategy?
Also, how are we engaging with them in terms of African-Canadian businesses, or business organizations, and community organizations? We talked earlier about talking to Canadians who have gone there and worked there, but I’m also talking about people who are from there and are now here and part of Canada.
Thank you.
Ms. Urban: I will start off with some brief statements, and then I’ll turn to my colleagues.
Regarding migration, for its G7 presidency, Italy will be having Africa as one of its priorities, and migration will be a focus of some of what will be discussed among the G7 members in the coming year. It is something that we monitor and will be discussing with like-minded partners as part of our G7 and other areas.
For civil society, I will turn to my colleague Ms. Steffen. However, to answer Senator Cardozo, we have staff members who are of African descent. We take diversity and inclusion extremely seriously. We have an action plan and a champion. It is a high priority for us. Also, we have hundreds of locally engaged staff who are in Africa — who are Africans — who provide us with advice to help shape our policies and programs.
Ms. Steffen: On the question of civil society engagement, and how that figures within a new approach, the nuance that we are faced with is joined up with the localization agenda and with the increasing capacity on the continent of different organizations to be able to take a bigger space than they have in the past.
Through two phases of our Women’s Voice and Leadership Program, we’ve supported hundreds of local women’s rights organizations in building their own capacity to do the activities that are at the centre of what they want to do. We have some excellent results from that on which we can build.
Mr. Salvaggio: On the question regarding the humanitarian flow of people, of course, this is an important subject. We are working on it with colleagues, particularly like-minded colleagues in Europe who are paying particular attention to this question, but we’re also working with colleagues in regard to the humanitarian response. There are a number of countries in the region where there is an important humanitarian impact, and our department is working together with partners on providing a response to these vulnerable populations. It is, indeed, a subject of importance.
Thank you.
The Chair: Thank you very much. I think we’ve had a very good start to our Africa study. As a committee, we realize how complicated this is going to be, given that there are 35 active military conflicts in Africa. There are huge humanitarian issues and displaced persons as we’ve never seen before. Then, of course, there are the ongoing concerns about climate change, pandemics and health — all of that. Somewhere in there is Canada’s role.
I would like to thank Cheryl Urban, Susan Steffen, Caroline Delany and Pasquale Salvaggio for joining us today. I have to tell you that it will not be the last time. We will continue our study and look forward to having you back.
(The committee adjourned.)