THE STANDING COMMITTEE ON AUDIT AND OVERSIGHT
EVIDENCE
OTTAWA, Thursday, May 19, 2022
The Standing Committee on Audit and Oversight met with videoconference this day at 6:30 p.m. [ET] to supervise and report on the Senate’s internal and external audits and related matters.
Senator Marty Klyne (Chair) in the chair.
[English]
The Chair: I am joined tonight by the other committee members, Senator Renée Dupuis, deputy chair, from Quebec; Senator David Wells, deputy chair, from Newfoundland and Labrador; Senator Percy Downe from Prince Edward Island; Ms. Hélène Fortin, external member from Quebec; and Mr. Bob Plamondon, external member from Ontario.
For everyone’s awareness, staff from each committee members’ offices, along with staff from the Senate Administration, are also participating in this virtual meeting.
I will ask everyone on Zoom, members and meeting participants, to please use the “raise hand” function if you wish to speak, and if I want to choose to do that, I will just let the clerk know. Thank you.
We have one item to take care of tonight, and that is the adoption of the draft budget. You have received a copy of this budget already, which was prepared in accordance with our instructions and has been reviewed by the administration. The expenses are to engage the services of a recruitment firm to create a pool of qualified candidates for the chief audit executive position.
The question before you is in regard to the budget application. With that, I’ll open up the floor if anyone has any questions, comments or remarks.
Honourable senators, is it agreed:
That the special study budget application, in the amount of $100,500, for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2023, be approved for submission to the Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration?
Senator Wells: Agreed.
Senator Downe: I’m supporting the motion, but I just thought for anyone who may be watching publicly, it might help to have a little explanation of the discussion we’ve had in the past about recruitment firms and so on. In other words, this is not being rammed through. There was extensive discussion about a range of cost for recruitment. We used a similar procedure to get our two existing outstanding external members.
We are very pleased with that process. They generated a list of top-quality candidates from across the country who represented all regions and diversity, and all the qualifications that we required for the committee, and we have the two current members.
We are simply repeating this procedure, chair, to get the additional person we need. You may want to elaborate on that more, chair, before we call the vote. But I will be voting in favour of the motion.
The Chair: I think in terms of the details, process and methodology of this, I will probably want to look to and call upon your recent history with the last search and also look to our external members for their comments on this rather than get into the details of what we will be doing here.
There will be an opportunity for us to discuss the approach, the methodology before we go to the market, if you will.
Senator Wells: My hand is down now. I was in agreement with the motion.
The Chair: Okay, thank you.
Senator Wells: I’ll wait for the call, though.
[Translation]
Senator Dupuis: If I may say a few words, I would like to stress the importance of the process we are about to undertake. We have very specific responsibilities for the oversight of internal and external audits at the Senate, and there is currently no internal auditor. The process we are beginning is to recruit a chief internal auditor for the Senate. It is a rather specialized process, so we would be very pleased to receive, in addition to the valuable advice of our two external members, the advice of a firm outside the Senate to conduct this recruitment process. Thank you.
[English]
The Chair: Thank you for that comment.
Senator Wells: I do want to echo Senator Downe and Senator Dupuis’s comments on the rigorous process that we plan to undertake.
I also want to say — and I think it’s an important comment — that when we began this process shortly after the work of the Auditor General of Canada and his report, which I believe was submitted in 2015 or 2016, there was a recommendation that we retain an internal auditor. In the past, the Senate Administration has done some internal audit functions, but as a point of governance, that may not be the best process to do that.
We accept the recommendation of the Auditor General to retain a full-time internal auditor, as well as, obviously, the external auditors that we have on an ongoing basis. This is an important point to make as we move to discuss and accept or reject the budget for that position and the task of searching for that internal audit position.
It’s new also in that this position will report to this committee as opposed to CIBA or some administrative branch of the Senate Administration.
The Chair: Thank you for that comment. I have two more that I will go to for questions or comments here quickly. I just want to say that I’m not refraining from wanting to have a discussion about this very important recruitment process we’re about to embark upon, but I am hesitating from discussing aspects about the potential search for a firm to do this, or also any candidate qualifications. I don’t want to get ahead of that. We will have time to discuss that and I will be seeking your input in that regard, and we will be providing you with the job descriptions and list of qualifications for you to respond to and provide your valued contributions.
I want to add one more thing. I do believe and I’m comfortable that that is a sufficient amount of money we are budgeting.
Robert Plamondon, external committee member: Not to get into the details of the qualities of the candidates, but work that we have done over the past number of months that has led us to this point where we have endorsed a model where we would have an executive, and if I could just list one quality that’s essential, it is independence.
I’m supportive of the use of an external recruitment firm because I think it enhances not only the role of independence but the very clear line of accountability between the chief audit executive and this committee, and not the chief audit executive to the Senate Administration.
If the recruitment process had gone through central administration — not to suggest that they would not have brought forward excellent [Technical difficulties] the essential mandate of this committee, which is to act independently. And the external recruitment firm aligns with that objective.
I believe this is the proper course to follow.
The Chair: Thank you.
Hélène Fortin, external committee member: We will certainly have a chance to go through the main attributes that candidates should possess. We mentioned courage, independence, technical savvy and other basic skills as well to execute the core of the functions, that’s for sure.
If I may add, I’m very happy that we proceed here in a two-step manner, the first step being the selection process for the firm who will be retained and then the selection process for the candidates. This is definitely best practices and a means to get to the best potential available candidates.
In closing, I will add that we all know how difficult it is nowadays. Resources are scarce. The internal audit function has become, over the years, a profession. They are very much sought after, so we maximize the chances of recruiting the best candidate available at the time by going through a reputable firm and there are numerous firms that will be able to execute this task with brio.
The Chair: Great. Thank you for all your comments, and I fully agree with everything you are saying here, so thank you very much for that input.
Seeing no other hands up, I did hear one agreed, so I’ll ask again:
Is it agreed that the special study budget application be approved for submission to the Standing Senate Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration?
Senator Dupuis: Yes.
Senator Wells: Agreed.
Senator Downe: Agreed.
The Chair: All in agreement. Great. Thank you so much. Now the budget was our only agenda item for this evening. Is there any other business? Hearing none, I want to thank you, senators, Madam Fortin and Mr. Plamondon, for your participation tonight.
Our next meeting should be the week of June 6, but with government business getting priority, we’ll have to see what time slot is available. As you know, the clerk will keep you updated in that regard.
I will ask Senators Dupuis and Wells to please stay for the steering meeting, which will proceed shortly hereafter. Thank you all again for your attendance, and I do greatly appreciate your comments in this regard. With that, I now declare the meeting adjourned.
(The committee adjourned.)