THE STANDING SENATE COMMITTEE ON INDIGENOUS PEOPLES
EVIDENCE
OTTAWA, Wednesday, September 25, 2024
The Standing Senate Committee on Indigenous Peoples met with videoconference this day at 6:45 p.m. [ET] to examine the implementation of the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples Act, 2021 by Canada and First Nations, Inuit and Métis peoples.
Senator Brian Francis (Chair) in the chair.
The Chair: Before we begin, I’d like to ask all senators and other in-person participants to consult the cards on the table for guidelines to prevent audio feedback incidents. Please make sure to keep your earpiece away from all microphones at all times. When you’re not using your earpiece, place it face down on the sticker placed on the table for this purpose. Thank you all for your cooperation.
I’d like to begin by acknowledging that the land on which we gather is the traditional, ancestral and unceded territory of the Anishinaabe Algonquin Nation and is now home to many other First Nations, Métis and Inuit peoples from across Turtle Island.
I am Mi’kmaq Senator Brian Francis of Epekwitk, also known as Prince Edward Island. I am the chair of the Standing Senate Committee on Indigenous Peoples. I would like to now ask my committee members in attendance to introduce themselves.
Senator Martin: Yonah Martin from British Columbia.
Senator Hartling: I’m Nancy Hartling from New Brunswick, from the unceded territory of the Mi’kmaq people.
Senator McNair: John McNair from New Brunswick, also from the unceded lands of the Mi’kmaq people.
Senator Arnot: David Arnot from Saskatchewan.
Senator Prosper: Paul Prosper Nova Scotia, Mi’kma’ki territory.
Senator White: Judy White, Ktaqmkuk, better known as Newfoundland and Labrador, and the ancestral homelands of the Mi’kmaq.
Senator Coyle: Mary Coyle, Antigonish, Nova Scotia, Mi’kma’ki.
Senator Greenwood: Margo Greenwood, from Treaty 6 territory, but I’m here from British Columbia.
The Chair: Before we start, I would like to acknowledge the Youth Council for the National Association of Friendship Centres. They’re all here, so welcome. It’s nice to have you here.
Today we’ll continue our study to examine the implementation of the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples Act 2021, also known as UNDRIP, by Canada and First Nations, Inuit and Métis people. The committee is hearing from witnesses to further refine its study topic.
I would like to introduce our witness, Marjolaine Étienne, President of the Quebec Native Women Inc. Thank you for joining us today. Our witness will provide opening remarks of approximately five minutes, which will be followed by a question-and-answer session with the senators.
I will now invite Ms. Étienne to give her opening remarks.
[Translation]
Marjolaine Étienne, President, Quebec Native Women Inc.: Kuei. Good evening. My name is Marjolaine Étienne. I’m from the Innu nation of the Mashteuiatsh Indigenous community, located in Lac-Saint-Jean.
Ladies and gentlemen of the committee and Mr. Chair, thank you for allowing me to address you on a subject that, as President of Quebec Native Women, but also as an adviser to the United Nations Voluntary Fund for Indigenous Peoples, is particularly close to my heart, namely, the implementation of the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.
This declaration represents a global commitment to the recognition and protection of the rights of Indigenous peoples, including those of women and girls, who face unique and complex challenges.
I’d like to share with you some findings and recommendations from Quebec Native Women in connection with the implementation of the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples within Canada and its federal entities.
To this end, let me begin by speaking to General recommendation No. 39 (2022) on the rights of Indigenous women and girls, which can greatly help steer the work of implementing the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples in the right direction with respect to the rights of Indigenous women and girls.
General recommendation No. 39 (2022) on the rights of Indigenous women and girls was adopted in October 2022 by the Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination against Women. It provides a legal framework and guidelines to ensure that the individual and collective rights of Indigenous women and girls are respected and promoted, in line with the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women.
In summary, General recommendation No. 39 aims to provide concrete guidance to ensure the protection and promotion of the individual and collective rights of Indigenous women and girls in all areas of their lives. Here are a few highlights.
It is essential to begin by recognizing and combatting systemic racism, which manifests itself in intersectional ways.
Indigenous women and girls experience intersecting discrimination — being women and being Indigenous — which is also exacerbated by other factors such as sexual orientation or disabilities, but also specific experiences of marginalization and vulnerability.
The committee must assess these dynamics to better understand and combat this form of racism, which is intrinsically linked to the alarming rate of violence experienced by Indigenous women and girls.
It is also crucial to consult and ensure the participation of Indigenous women and girls in the decision-making process for policies, programs and projects that affect them. This must be done in accordance with the principle of free, prior and informed consent.
The land rights of Indigenous women and girls must be guaranteed in order to preserve their autonomy and culture. The committee must examine the challenges they face in terms of access to land, protection of traditional knowledge and involvement in natural resource management.
In terms of access to essential services, the recommendation highlights the fundamental right of Indigenous women to equitable access to various services. Whether for education, health, justice, employment or training, it is imperative that these services are not only geographically and monetarily accessible, but also culturally adapted to the realities and needs of women and girls. In this sense, emphasis must be placed on promoting and sharing ancestral practices.
Governments must support the individual and collective capacity building of Indigenous women and girls. This includes investments in education, training, entrepreneurship and community leadership to empower them.
Finally, the transmission of cultural knowledge, including mother tongues, is essential. Indigenous women play a central role in this transmission that must be valued in order to protect the perpetuity of our ancestral knowledge.
It is necessary that this recommendation be known, taken into account and integrated into policies by the provincial and federal governments, since its content is directly linked to that of the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. We invite committee members to read this document for inspiration.
As for the various projects within Quebec Native Women in connection with the Government of Canada’s action plan, we have a number of one-time initiatives under way.
We have initiatives related to advocacy for missing and murdered Indigenous women and the implementation of the reports and recommendations of the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls.
There is also a project on leadership, stories of change and the promotion of individual and collective rights enshrined in the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples and general recommendation No. 39, This project will run until March 2025. Holding a symposium at the end of 2024 to validate a framework strategy for gender equality will be a crucial step.
In addition, the ongoing work of a research and development unit, which will be completed in late 2024, will provide valuable guidance on the ethics of research in an Indigenous context.
Before I conclude, I would like to mention that while efforts are being made within the federal government to integrate the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples into the legislative framework, it is clear that at the provincial level, in Quebec in particular, we are lagging behind. Without recognition and commitment to implementing the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples at all levels of government, there can be no real change, as both governments legislate on Indigenous issues.
Of course, the implementation of the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples cannot be done properly without paying particular attention to the specific challenges, realities and needs faced by Indigenous women and girls. It is essential to recognize and respect their cultural identities, ancestral knowledge and unique perspectives. Thank you. Tshinashkumitinau.
[English]
The Chair: Thank you very much. We’ll now open the floor to questions from senators.
Senator Arnot: Thank you very much for coming here today, Ms. Étienne, and helping us out on this issue.
I’m interested in your perspective on the implementation of the UNDRIP Act. I’d like to know if you think there has been a tangible impact of the act so far in your experience, especially with respect to communities that you know and represent. Has there been any significant benefit to Indigenous women so far?
You talked about the need to invest in education, and you talked about the importance of language. I’m wondering what you could tell us about what you hope to see. What kinds of investment and what kind of outcomes would you like to see in five or ten years? What is the end goal to address these issues?
I always like to talk about the intersectionality and the compounding effect of these categories of discrimination. I know you’ve touched upon it, so I would just like you to make comments on those issues, if you would, please.
[Translation]
Ms. Étienne: That’s a lot. I’ll start with a vision. I think what’s important about Indigenous women and girls…. You know as well as anyone, before colonization in the ancestral territory, there was a relationship between men and women; it was called balance. Everyone had a role to play, women and men equally.
Colonization, residential schools and the Indian Act have turned the traditional role of Indigenous women upside down. They played a crucial role at the heart of our communities, passing on cultural knowledge and our mother tongues.
In five or ten years, it will be interesting to see that Indigenous women still have a significant place in society, whether in our own communities or in society in general. We have a place, we have a duty, we have a responsibility, and we also have something to contribute, whether in our communities or in urban areas.
When an Indigenous woman isn’t healthy, the family isn’t healthy, and the community isn’t healthy. I believe that the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples is a fundamental and global element in ensuring that Indigenous women enjoy the rights set out in articles 21 and 22 of the declaration. They also need to have access to equitable services, but that’s part of some of the things that aren’t being done right now.
We do know that there are elements that have marked the history of Indigenous women. For example, there was the tragic death of Joyce Echaquan, and I hear many other stories when I visit various nations and Indigenous women across Quebec.
I’m on a tour right now, and my intention is to listen to Indigenous women and talk to them about what they’re experiencing in their communities, because I’ll tell you, they don’t feel safe. A safe environment is important to them, their children and their families.
I think I mentioned general recommendation 39; I think it’s important to draw on it. It was adopted internationally in 2022 at a meeting of the Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination against Women, or CEDAW, which I also attended with other Indigenous women.
For us, Indigenous women, whether in Quebec, Canada or internationally, this is a fundamental tool, because with this recommendation, we can assert our individual and collective rights. It’s an interesting tool, and I would advise you to use it. I’m using it right now because we’re doing a consultation process with Indigenous women in Canada to talk about the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, including recommendation 39, because we have rights. Indigenous women and girls have rights.
In this sense, it’s important to make Indigenous women aware of what the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples and the recommendation are, and to make them aware of their rights. What are your rights? How do you see your rights being applied?
The consultation process will make it possible to listen to women’s perceptions of their rights and how they can be respected, not only in our communities, but also outside them. With this vision, in five or ten years, I hope that women will be able to truly exercise their rights and that they will be better respected than they are today, not only in terms of obtaining services outside our communities, but also within them.
[English]
Senator White: Thank you very much, Ms. Étienne. I really appreciate your passion, and it shows.
I’d like to talk a little bit about urban areas and Indigenous women living in urban areas. On April 17 of this year, the National Association of Friendship Centres testified before the committee, and they defined urban Indigenous as First Nations, Inuit, Métis living in small, medium, and large communities, but they also included rural, isolated and remote communities. I’m wondering, does your membership include rural and remote communities? That’s important to me. I have a lot of Innu people in Labrador that I’m quite familiar with, and they live in remote communities. I’m wondering if you could provide us with some advice, if they’re included in your membership, of how we can ensure that the urban Indigenous women living in remote areas have their rights protected. It’s a big question, I’m sorry, but I’d love to hear your advice.
[Translation]
Ms. Étienne: Quebec Native Women Inc. represents 10 nations and urban women as well. Indigenous women live with their families in urban areas for a variety of reasons, including education, lack of housing in our communities, or a search for better living conditions for themselves and their children. There are many reasons why they’ve left their community. They also occupy a place in the urban environment.
Quebec Native Women Inc. represents the Naskapi Nation, the Wolastoqiyik Nation, the Mi’kmaq Nation, the Atikamekw Nation, the Innu Nation and various nations throughout Quebec. It’s around a governance table that we can take part in decisions and share relevant information, because women from each nation have something to contribute. They are our eyes and ears. We can listen to their concerns.
In terms of geographic location, the Atikamekw communities live about two and a half hours from La Doré, so they are in the middle of the forest.
The needs are different for each community because the environment is different. For example, my community of Mashteuiatsh is close to the cities, so we have to leave our communities to access health care. However, for women who live in remote areas, they have to drive for hours on gravel roads. They have to leave their communities to give birth or receive care. They also have to accompany their children, as well as their elders and men. So women are the first to receive service, but what’s important for women living in remote areas is that they have special needs and they’ll have to be documented. They have to go out to get their post-secondary education and everything else. Their needs are great, whether it’s health care, education and so on. But they have needs.
How do you reach them? Quebec Native Women has a representative of the Atikamekw Nation who is elected each term; in that sense, the Atikamekw Nation is in a position to bring us relevant information and concerns about Indigenous women.
In addition, in May 2024, Quebec Native Women Inc. mobilized more than 160 women from different nations and generations. That event really brought us together. We discussed the themes that concern us — land, climate change, leadership and governance, culture and identity, socio-economic development — and these themes have been far-reaching, because we learned a lot about a good number of concerns, not just those that concern our own issues, and we managed to find solutions. Right now, the report is at the drafting stage. It’s in draft form, but Quebec Native Women Inc. will have a tool to respond to the needs of Indigenous women and to work on solutions by and for Indigenous women who took action in May 2024.
[English]
The Chair: I have a question for you, Ms. Étienne. In multiple studies across the committee over the past several years, many witnesses have identified the lack of consultation and co‑development on several matters, including an act to amend the Indian Act in response to the Superior Court of Quebec decision in Dagenais, which is of particular importance to First Nations women and their descendents. Have you encountered challenges related to the way the Government of Canada understand or undertook consultation, cooperation and co‑development?
[Translation]
Ms. Étienne: Consultation is a key element to better understand the real needs of Indigenous peoples in Quebec, Canada and elsewhere, and also for anything having to do with the needs of Indigenous women. I think we’re in the best position to know what our real needs are. Consultation must take place before any intervention is made so that the needs of Indigenous women are known. We need to be at the front end of this consultation to let you know what can be done to carry out a co-construction and co-development consultation.
What usually happens is that we’re always called in at the very end, when everything is done. Whatever the issue, we have to react rather than act upstream, so we’re not proactive. At both the federal and provincial levels, those who intend to create or draft any kind of legislation should be upstream of the drafting process, in order to co-draft a bill. We need to be sitting at the front of the train, not in the last car, because otherwise it’ll be too late, things will already be wrapped up, and we’ll no longer have any room to manœuvre to make the real needs of Indigenous women and girls known. The idea is really to make sure…. In fact, that’s what the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples says, that there needs to be free and informed consent that ensures that we’re consulted upstream, not after things are done.
This is something that Quebec Native Women often mentions, that if we want to make a contribution or talk about the issues facing Indigenous women, it’s important not to do so at the very end, but rather upstream. That’s where we’re able to work together, co-create and work on the real issues and the reality of Indigenous women.
Senator Coyle: Thank you, Ms. Étienne.
[English]
I was very impressed with a number of the things that you said. They really resonated with me. You talked about the fact that we — meaning the Indigenous women of Quebec — have a contribution to make that needs to be recognized. You said that it is important to look at the role of Indigenous women in Quebec in the management of natural resources as well as in the protection of rights. Just now we were talking about free, prior and informed consent. All of these things to me come together.
The territories within Quebec are abundant in resources, and some of those resources are very important for the future economy of that region and also for our whole country — mining, particularly of critical minerals, hydro development. We know wind is going to be growing. I’m curious not just about the role of Indigenous women in giving their permission and then negotiating some kind of an arrangement with somebody else who is a proponent proposing projects to develop those resources, but I’m interested in what’s happening, if anything, where Indigenous women in Quebec are actually taking the lead and inviting others to be partners with you on the development of these resources which are so abundant in your territories and which will be essential for the future economy.
[Translation]
Ms. Étienne: Indigenous women still live on the territory. They were there yesterday, they’re still there today and they will still be there tomorrow.
Resources for development on the territory, including hydroelectric and mining projects, are important to Indigenous women. That was something that these women expressed during the summit held in May 2024. They want to know more about climate change. What does it mean? It’s on everyone’s lips, but they are not very involved, if at all, in an issue that concerns us too. On the territory, we also have a role to play as women. We have a responsibility in our community, on the territory, to ensure food security. I’m referring to gathering berries, fishing, providing water and small game hunting for partridge and hare. Women put their heart and soul into fulfilling their role and responsibility for ensuring food security.
I forgot one important aspect: pharmacy, as in medicinal plants for healing.
In their community, they are very aware not only that there is something they need to protect, but also that they need to get involved and talk about these issues. At the moment, there are very few forums where we can hear Indigenous women talk about protection.
I have nothing against men; that’s not the point of my argument. Large game such as caribou and moose are fine and dandy. However, we also use berries to feed our children, elders, families and communities on the territory and in our communities outside the territory. The same goes for fish, water and medicinal plants.
If a forestry management plan doesn’t take into account the fact that there are blueberries in the area and the entire cluster with all the leaves and roots are ripped out, that’s it for the plants. Women are able to say when a place needs protecting. They are in the best position and have knowledge about everything in their living environment. Food security, medicinal plants, water, small game hunting and fishing are activities that women do.
The fundamental component is passing down our languages, which also happens on our territory. That is where we’re from. That is where we were born. The language of the territory has always been important. That integral connection between women and the territory has been broken.
Then came colonization, the residential school system and the Indian Act. All of that wiped out Indigenous women’s roles and responsibilities.
I would like the role of Indigenous women in passing down cultural knowledge, including our languages, to be recognized right away. We need recognition from our political leaders in our own communities. There is a sense of pride that comes with being recognized. We ensure the long-term survival of our nations and our languages.
We need investments in training with the goal of offering women some kind of support so that they can reappropriate their role. That way, women will be valued more than they are now. That will give them a purpose within the family and make their lives meaningful, because they will have a role and a responsibility as women and as Indigenous people. Without tools and measures, we risk continuing down our current path. This needs to stop.
Too often, Indigenous women flee as a result of conjugal violence. Families suffer, children suffer and our communities suffer. Women hold a very important place in our communities. We need to restore the reputation of Indigenous women for everything they bring to our communities. The road will be long, but I believe in it. I believe in the strength of Indigenous women, because they have leadership capabilities. If we don’t use them, if we don’t involve them, if we don’t engage them, they will remain submerged. We need to lift their heads above water so they can show that they have the potential to ensure that our communities can flourish even more than they do now.
[English]
Senator Greenwood: Thank you for coming this evening.
In your opening remarks, you talked about the implementation of UNDRIP, and you mentioned that you are involved in some of those things at the UN level as well. My question is really straightforward. When you think about the organization that you are the president of and your experience in life in the province of Quebec, could you identify some of the actions that your organization, or that you, have seen that are trying to address the articles in UNDRIP? You spoke a lot this evening about Recommendation 39. Are there others, and can you give examples of where you are making some progress in implementing those recommendations or perhaps actions you would like to see on some of them?
[Translation]
Ms. Étienne: The United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples is a fundamental component. However, there are very few specific articles about Indigenous women and girls. General Recommendation No. 39 gives meaning to the lives and individual and collective rights of Indigenous women. This is an international tool that we as an organization will use. I hope general Recommendation No. 39 will be implemented. It is already on its way.
Earlier, I referred to an upcoming activity, a symposium. We will begin consultations with Indigenous women to talk about the Declaration and General Recommendation No. 39. After the consultation process, with what we have heard through the voices of women, we hope to draft a framework for equality between Indigenous men and women. We really need this tool for equality so that it can be applied not only to NGOs, but also in our own communities. As an organization, we hope to implement a policy framework for equality between Indigenous men and women.
[English]
Senator Greenwood: Thank you.
Senator Prosper: Thank you for coming before us this evening. I enjoyed and appreciated your testimony and the way you covered so many of the key issues that Indigenous women face throughout your territory.
I want to get to some fundamentals. You have a very strong vision in terms of what you want to see, not just for Indigenous women but also connected to families, children and the land. We’re all part of this cycle. You talked about consultation, and you said it’s really essential to have that done at the front end. You had the analogy of you want to be at the front of the caravan rather than at the end. You don’t want Indigenous people to be an afterthought or face a fait accompli or decisions that are already made.
We have UNDRIP and the action plan, and a key element of that is trying to align federal laws and regulations with UNDRIP. I’m curious. What is your experience with government officials, people in positions within government, approaching your organization and saying, “We have this action plan, and we want to talk to you. We want to consult about these policies or these laws to get your perspective so we can really deliver on this”? Can you share any examples or stories or anything like that? I’m just curious. Thank you.
[Translation]
Ms. Étienne: In 2023, Quebec Native Women submitted a project for a call for proposals around the United National Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. We accepted and received funding.
We were the first women’s organization to consult with Indigenous women and girls within their own community. We were the first in Quebec and also in Canada to benefit from that funding.
In 2023, we began consultations. We consulted with women about where their thinking was in terms of understanding the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples and, in the same vein, to teach them more about it.
From where we live, in Montreal or Quebec City, we hear about the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. People around the world are talking about it. When I go into the community, that’s where I’m best placed to talk about the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. I firmly believe that our communities and political leaders, who represent Indigenous people, will one day achieve self-government.
As I said, we are in the best position to meet the actual needs of our people. We were guided through the project by public servants who I feel helped us and also supported us financially. They, too, strongly believed in our vision.
The projects are advancing step by step. These are ad hoc projects. It would be worthwhile to have ongoing projects within the framework of the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. That would help ensure a long-term process, not just ad hoc, where there is be a beginning, middle and end.
Whenever we reapply for a call for proposals, we have to restart the process from scratch. It would be worthwhile to have programs related to the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous People that are ongoing and not just ad hoc.
I refer to Recommendation No. 39 because it’s new. We hear a lot about it in international forums, in Geneva and sometimes New York, where Indigenous people can make petitions to UN bodies. Recommendation No. 39 is something we need to talk about.
We’re starting to talk about it, because it’s a tool we need to use to assert the rights of Indigenous women and girls. I will reiterate that the programs need to be ongoing if we want women to better understand the meaning of the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous People and Recommendation No. 39.
[English]
Senator Prosper: I really appreciate what you provided just now, and it makes so much sense. I mean, what can you really achieve on a one-off? There is the need to have something more structured and more consistent to give you, as you put it, momentum. With success comes success. In terms of that, what kind of structure do you envision for your organization, that consistent, multi-year structure that you think is rather key for your organization and for the people you represent?
[Translation]
Ms. Étienne: In 2024, Quebec Native Women celebrated its 50th anniversary. It has had its high points and low points, but it has always been there. I feel that the organization has a long life ahead of it.
Our mission is to defend the rights of Indigenous women. That is what we need to work on while building on the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples and Recommendation No. 39.
In partnership with the Université du Québec en Outaouais, the Université Laval law faculty and the United Nations High Commission, we started setting up an annual training in the universities’ summer sessions.
This year, we invited Francophone Indigenous Africans to take part in a training session on international Indigenous people’s rights. That valuable training was a first in Quebec. Having training and partners is important, because all by itself, Quebec Native Women will not be able to take the initiative and further help Indigenous women.
Quebec Native Women needs partners to help Indigenous women, including ones from the federal and provincial governments. Earlier, I mentioned the Government of Quebec, which has not yet addressed the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. We also need to work on that, but I think we need other government stakeholders to ensure once and for all that the Government of Quebec can adopt the Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.
The fact remains that, structurally, if we want to further Indigenous rights, we need to work on ongoing programs and measures. We will continue to support Indigenous women who are victims of violence in our own communities and in urban settings. What’s more, what I hear from Indigenous women across Quebec is that we need to be concerned about our young people, our children and our grandchildren. We need to work diligently on that, but at the same time we need to work on the development aspect. Our organization set up a leadership program for Indigenous women in collaboration with First Nations Executive Education at HEC Montréal. It’s going well, and we have a waiting list. Women really want to be equipped and trained to be able to network and develop their leadership abilities.
I believe in the strength of women. We need to set up partnerships, but also programs that are ongoing and not ad hoc. Ongoing programs enable us to invest in human capital, in this case Indigenous women. By banking on human capital, we ensure that families have a better environment and better living conditions for themselves and our communities.
[English]
Senator Prosper: Thank you.
The Chair: The time for this panel is now complete. I wish to again thank Ms. Étienne for joining us and presenting testimony this evening. We really appreciate it. If you have any other submissions you would like to make, you can submit them to the clerk within seven days.
That brings us to the end of our meeting.
(The committee adjourned.)