THE STANDING COMMITTEE ON INTERNAL ECONOMY, BUDGETS AND ADMINISTRATION
EVIDENCE
OTTAWA, Thursday, February 2, 2023
The Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration met with videoconference this day at 9 a.m. [ET], pursuant to rule 12-7(1), to consider financial and administrative matters; and, in camera, pursuant to rule 12-7(1), to consider financial and administrative matters.
Senator Lucie Moncion (Chair) in the chair.
[Translation]
The Chair: Welcome. Thank you for coming to this morning’s committee meeting.
I am Lucie Moncion, and I am a senator from Ontario. I have the honour of chairing the Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration.
I will now ask my colleagues to introduce themselves, starting on my left.
Senator Dawson: Dennis Dawson, a senator from Quebec for a few more days.
[English]
Senator Bovey: Senator Patricia Bovey from Manitoba.
Senator Boyer: Senator Yvonne Boyer, Ontario.
[Translation]
Senator Forest: Éric Forest, senator for the Gulf Senate division. I’m happy to be back.
Senator Loffreda: Tony Loffreda, a senator from Quebec.
[English]
Senator Tannas: Scott Tannas from Alberta.
Senator C. Deacon: Colin Deacon, senator from Nova Scotia.
Senator Moodie: Senator Rosemary Moodie from Ontario.
Senator Dean: Tony Dean representing Ontario.
Senator Seidman: Judith Seidman from Montreal, Quebec.
Senator Plett: Donald Plett, Manitoba.
Senator MacDonald: Michael MacDonald, Nova Scotia.
[Translation]
The Chair: Thank you very much. I would also like to welcome the people watching us from every part of the country.
[English]
Honourable senators, the first item of business is the approval of the minutes of December 15, 2022, which are in your package. Are there any questions or amendments to the minutes? Seeing none, could I have a mover for the following motion? Senator Dean moves:
That the minutes of Thursday, December 15, 2022 be approved.
Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried.
[Translation]
Item 2 concerns the creation of the Subcommittee on Communications. The steering committee looked at the issue of communications and deemed it preferable to bring back the subcommittee.
I would like to know if you have any questions or comments on the subcommittee. Since it seems there are none, we will ask that the names of prospective members be submitted so that we can make up the subcommittee. Once we have those names, the subcommittee will be created. We are waiting for the leaders of the various groups to send us the names as well as the necessary documents signed by their respective facilitators. These documents are to be given to the committee clerk, so that the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure may strike the subcommittee and that the subcommittee be mandated to report to our committee from time to time.
Is someone ready to move such a motion? Senator Dawson.
Honourable senators, is it your pleasure to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Yes.
The Chair: Thank you. The motion is carried.
Item 3 concerns the appointment of a new vice-chair. Someone will be leaving our committee very soon.
Senator Dawson, before I give you the floor, I would like to extend my sincere thanks for your work.
[English]
As a senator for nearly 18 years and in political life for much longer, you have made a remarkable contribution to the province of Quebec and to Canada. Thank you so much. Here at CIBA, we have valued your insight and I have appreciated immensely your advice and counsel as a colleague.
[Translation]
I would also like to take the opportunity to wish you a wonderful retirement. Have fun and live every moment to its fullest.
Senator Dawson: Thank you, Madam Chair.
The Chair: Senator Dawson, I think you wish to read the motion seeking to nominate the senator that will replace you.
Senator Dawson: I will certainly have the opportunity to say a few words next week in the chamber.
Honourable senators, I will soon be retiring. I would like to inform the committee that, pursuant to rule 12-5, the leader of my group is nominating Senator Dalphond to replace me on the Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration.
With your permission, I would like to move the following motion:
That, upon becoming a member of the Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration, the Honourable Pierre J. Dalphond be appointed vice-chair of said committee.
The Chair: Any questions or comments?
Honourable senators, is it your pleasure to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Yes.
The motion is carried.
Thank you, Senator Dawson.
[English]
The next item concerns the membership of the Joint Interparliamentary Council. Senators, again, with the departure of Senator Dawson from the committee, there is a vacancy. As such, Senator Bovey would like to move a motion.
Senator Bovey: Thank you, Madam Chair. At this time of change, I would like to move:
That the Honourable Senator Dawson be replaced as a Senate representative on the JIC by another senator to be appointed by the leader of the PSG, by way of a signed notice filed with the clerk of the committee.
Madam Chair as you know, the leader of the PSG is out of the country at the moment so, in due honour to her, wait until she returns.
The Chair: Are there any questions or comments for Senator Bovey? If not, is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried. Thank you.
[Translation]
The next item is the Knowledge Client Funding forecast table concerning salary expenses which will be reimbursed by Public Services and Procurement Canada for the work done by Senate employees for the Long Term Vision and Plan during the 2022-23 financial year.
Josée Labelle, Director General of the Property and Services Directorate, is here with us this morning.
Ms. Labelle, please make your presentation, and then the senators will ask you some questions. You have the floor.
Josée Labelle, Director General, Property and Services Directorate, Senate of Canada: Thank you, Madam Chair.
[English]
Honourable senators, on November 17, 2022, CIBA approved the updated Knowledgeable Client Funding memorandum of understanding, or MOU, with PSPC. Since 2009, this agreement has allowed the Senate Administration to recover personnel costs related to LTVP projects. Key changes of that MOU included a more clearly defined funding approach, including a standardized annual forecast process and quarterly payments subject to annual approval by parliamentarians.
Also part of the revised MOU is that the knowledgeable client funding will be subject to a third-party audit that’s anticipated to be conducted every three to five years. Those findings would be presented through the internal governance that we have for projects with PSPC and other partners.
The KCF agreement affects multiple directorates within the Senate, including the Property Services Directorate, the Corporate Security Directorate, ISD and Communications. All related cost recovery efforts require the submission of associated time sheets and justifications. As part of our presentation in November, the PSD stated that the next step following the approval of the updated KCF MOU was to bring the Senate’s 2022-23 forecasts to CIBA for endorsement.
The agreed upon process is that these forecasts are submitted in a joint governance forum with the parliamentary partners and PSPC all the way up to the deputy minister level for pre-approval, which we received on January 24 of last week. The process then requires each partner’s respective governance to provide final approval, which is the reason for our presentation today. Normally, this approval would be sought at the beginning of the fiscal year. However, this year is a bit different since the MOU update and approval was only finalized toward the end of the 2022 calendar year.
Based on this information, it is estimated that 25.5 FTEs will work approximately 40,000 hours on LTVP projects and the Senate will therefore recover approximately $2.8 million — and this is the estimates — in salary expense for PSPC in fiscal year 2022-23. It is recommended that CIBA approve the 2022-23 KCF forecast, which is estimated at $2.8 million.
In March of 2023, the Senate Administration will then present the 2023-24 forecast for CIBA for final approval upon the start of the upcoming fiscal year. I’m happy to answer any questions you may have.
[Translation]
The Chair: Thank you very much, Ms. Labelle.
I do apologize, Ms. Cowley. I did not introduce you. You are the Director of LTVP at the Property and Services Directorate. Welcome.
Does anyone have any questions or comments for Ms. Labelle and Ms. Cowley? I see that there are none.
I need someone to move the following motion:
That the Senate funding forecast table for 2022-23, estimated at $2.8 million for the Long Term Vision and Plan, be approved.
Senator Dean moves the motion. Do you have any questions or comments?
Is it the pleasure of the honourable senators to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Yes.
The Chair: The motion is carried. Thank you, ladies.
Item 6 is about the response we have received from the Translation Bureau following a question asked by Senator Seidman at our meeting held on November 17.
Senator Seidman, do you have any other comments to make on the answers that we have received? Do the other senators have any questions or information?
[English]
Senator Seidman: Thank you. I did read the response, and this response came some time ago. The question was asked — I have the date here, actually — on November 17, and things have evolved since then. We’re now in February.
I’m just wondering if anything has changed as a result of that, because this bill refers to social distancing, masking and that kind of thing. That would be my question.
The Chair: I will ask Gerry to answer your question, senator.
Gérald Lafrenière, Interim Clerk of the Senate and Clerk of the Parliaments, and Chief Legislative Services Officer, Office of the Clerk of the Senate and Chief Legislative Services Officer, Senate of Canada: On that specific note, nothing has changed. There has been a lot of development on the interpretation file in the last few weeks. We intend to brief steering on some of the issues at our meeting next week, possibly with a briefing at CIBA the following week on the happenings, basically, in the month of January.
Senator Seidman: Okay, thank you.
The Chair: Are there any other questions or comments? If not, the item was on your agenda for information only.
We are now moving to item 7. Pursuant to section 1.6.2 of the Senators Office Management Policy, or SOMP, the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure is required to report biannually on the exception request it has received and their corresponding decisions. It is my honour to table the 11th report of the subcommittee, which outlines these exception requests and corresponding decisions since June 23, 2022.
The report is placed before you for information. Are there any comments or questions on this report?
Senator Plett: Could you just explain the second item? I see that you approved a request by Senators Cotter and Manning. At some point, I was going to again raise the issue of the way our system works. We have a certain amount of money we can claim for hotels over the course of a year. If we have to stay Mondays and Fridays, some of us claim an extra $7,500. I fall into that category. I am finding this year that because of the hotel increases, even that isn’t going to accommodate us, so either I’m going to take a few days off somewhere or I’m going to put some money out of my own pocket.
I’m not asking for that to be dealt with, but is this what that is referring to? If it isn’t, there is no need to explain further. I will raise that at a future meeting.
The Chair: No, it is not.
Senator Plett: Thank you.
The Chair: Are there any other questions on the report? If not, we will move on to the next item.
Item 8 will be deferred to the next CIBA meeting at the request of one of our colleagues. We are now on item 9. Are there any other issues we need to address in public this morning?
Seeing none, we will continue in camera. However, before we do, I would like to remind everyone that CIBA meetings are mostly held in public. Only items on sensitive topics such as salaries, contracts and negotiations, labour relations, and personnel issues or safety are discussed in closed sessions. CIBA wants to be as transparent as possible about the important work of this committee.
(The committee continued in camera.)