THE STANDING SENATE COMMITTEE ON NATIONAL FINANCE
EVIDENCE
OTTAWA, Wednesday, March 8, 2023
The Standing Senate Committee on National Finance met with videoconference this day at 6:45 p.m. [ET] to study the Supplementary Estimates (C) for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2023.
Senator Éric Forest (Deputy Chair) in the chair.
[Translation]
The Deputy Chair: Welcome senators and all Canadians watching us on sencanada.ca.
I would like to take this opportunity to wish everyone a wonderful International Women’s Day. We hope this day will enable us to progress toward a more equitable, more respectful and more united society.
My name is Éric Forest; I am a senator from the province of Quebec, in the Gulf region. I am the Deputy Chair of the National Finance Committee. It is my pleasure to chair this evening’s meeting because our chair had to have an operation. We hope he will be back soon.
I would like to ask each of my colleagues to introduce themselves in turn, starting at my left.
Senator Gignac: Good evening. Senator Clément Gignac from Quebec.
Senator Galvez: Rosa Galvez, independent senator from Quebec.
Senator Loffreda: Good evening and welcome. Senator Tony Loffreda from Quebec.
[English]
Senator Duncan: Good evening. Senator Pat Duncan from the Yukon. Welcome.
Senator Bovey: Patricia Bovey from Manitoba.
Senator Boehm: Peter Boehm, Ontario.
[Translation]
Senator Moncion: Senator Lucie Moncion from Ontario.
Senator Dagenais: Senator Jean-Guy Dagenais from Quebec.
Senator Smith: Senator Larry Smith from Quebec.
[English]
Senator Marshall: Elizabeth Marshall, Newfoundland and Labrador.
[Translation]
The Deputy Chair: Thank you. We also have with us some people who are vital to our work: Mireille K. Aubé, our clerk, and Sylvain Fleury and Shaowei Pu, our analysts.
Today we’re beginning our study of the Supplementary Estimates (C) for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2023 — that’s tomorrow — which were referred to the committee by the Senate of Canada by order of reference dated March 7, 2023.
To assist us with this study, we have some senior public servants from Global Affairs Canada, Indigenous Services Canada and the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Armed Forces.
[English]
Welcome to all of you and thank you for accepting our invitation to appear in front of the Senate National Finance Committee.
[Translation]
Because there are so many of you, and to save time, I’ll introduce the three people who will be making statements. I would ask the other witnesses to introduce themselves if they are asked to speak.
We’ll proceed with introductory remarks by Anick Ouellette, Assistant Deputy Minister and Chief Financial Officer, Corporate Planning, Finance and Information.
Ms. Ouellette, you have the floor.
Anick Ouellette, Assistant Deputy Minister and Chief Financial Officer, Corporate Planning, Finance and Information, Global Affairs Canada: Thank you, Mr. Chair. It is an honour to be here to discuss my department’s Supplementary Estimates (C).
I would first like to acknowledge that I am speaking from the traditional unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinaabe people and I am grateful to have the opportunity to be present in this territory.
[English]
I am joined today by Annie Boyer, Director General, Financial Planning and Management, and Deputy Chief Financial Officer; Peter Lundy, Director General, Indo-Pacific Strategy Secretariat; Jess Dutton, Director General, Middle East; Cam Do, Director General, Innovative and Climate Finance Bureau; Joshua Tabah, Director General, Health and Nutrition; and Kati Csaba, Executive Director, Ukraine Strategic Action Team.
Let me begin by outlining the scope of our mandate. Under the leadership of three ministers, Global Affairs Canada, or GAC, is responsible for advancing Canada’s international relations; developing and implementing foreign policy; promoting international trade while supporting Canadian business interests; being a leader in delivering international development assistance, including humanitarian assistance; and providing consular assistance to the many Canadians who work, live and travel abroad.
[Translation]
In order to fulfill this mandate and to position Canada as a global leader, Global Affairs Canada operates 178 missions in 110 countries in an evolving and often challenging global political and economic climate.
[English]
The additional funding sought through these supplementary estimates will allow Canada to lead in demonstrating to Canadians and the world that our values and actions can make a real contribution to addressing the interconnected crises of climate change and biodiversity loss, as well as addressing the needs of the most vulnerable people in the world through the humanitarian development, peace and security nexus.
[Translation]
Through the Supplementary Estimates (C), Global Affairs Canada has sought an increase of $583.1 million to its authorities, from $8.9 billion to $9.5 billion.
[English]
The majority of this funding sought through these supplementary estimates will support global climate change and advance the priorities of the government and Canadians. More specifically, it relates to the following activities: $370 million to deliver on a portion of Canada’s climate finance commitment to tackle climate change and biodiversity loss and to help developing countries transition to low-carbon, climate-resilient and nature-positive economies. The funding will advance climate change mitigation and adaptation action with a focus on clean energy, nature-based solutions and green financing.
Another $67.5 million is sought to support the Middle East strategy. This funding will allow for partial programming of Global Affairs Canada’s first-year implementation of the strategy to address instability in Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria.
[Translation]
Another $50 million is requested for Canada’s contribution to the financial intermediary fund for pandemic prevention, preparedness and response (Pandemic Fund). The Pandemic Fund, housed at the World Bank, aims to reduce the risks associated with pandemics by providing additional long-term funding to address gaps in pandemic prevention, preparedness and response activities in low and lower-middle income countries as well as at regional and global levels. The World Bank’s board of directors, on which Canada is represented, approved the creation of this new fund in June 2022.
We also need $41.2 million for humanitarian assistance in Afghanistan. These funds initially approved to support the security sector in Afghanistan were reallocated to address lifesaving needs affecting vulnerable populations in Afghanistan, with a specific focus on food insecurity, acute malnutrition and emergency health services.
[English]
Global Affairs Canada is also seeking $18 million for the provision of non-lethal military equipment to Ukraine and $11 million for increased costs related to foreign service allowances and payments of assessed contributions.
The funding will support Canada’s role in addressing major global issues while also reinforcing Canadian leadership. Programming will be guided by country needs and will be implemented by trusted partners.
[Translation]
The department continues to measure performance and communicate results to Parliament and Canadians. We emphasize responsible financial management to deliver against our mandate and ensure the highest standards of service to Canadians, particularly those requiring consular assistance abroad.
[English]
Thank you. We would be pleased to address any questions you may have on these Supplementary Estimates (C).
[Translation]
The Deputy Chair: Thank you, Ms. Ouellette.
I now invite Marc Geoffrion to speak.
Marc Geoffrion, Deputy Chief Financial Officer, Indigenous Services Canada: Thank you, Mr. Chair and honourable senators, for the invitation to discuss the 2022‑23 Supplementary Estimates (C) for Indigenous Services Canada.
I would like to begin by acknowledging that we are on the unceded traditional territory of the Algonquin Anishnaabeg people.
[English]
With me this evening are Sylvain Souligny, Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Regional Operations; Ian Kenney, Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Education and Social Development Programs and Partnership Sector; and Stephen Traynor, Director General, Lands and Environmental Management Branch.
Indigenous Services Canada’s 2022-23 Supplementary Estimates (C) are showing a net increase of $777 million, of which $697.7 million is in Vote 10 grants and contributions. With this increase, ISC’s total authorities for 2022-23 will total $44.8 billion.
The following are the main key initiatives of these supplementary estimates: $271.3 million to reimburse First Nations and emergency management service providers for on‑reserve response and recovery activities. The department supports First Nation communities during emergency events such as floods, wildfires and extreme weather events by enabling access to robust and effective emergency management services. The effective provision of these emergency services is also consistent with the department’s mandate to support First Nation peoples’ pursuit of healthy, sustainable and prosperous communities.
Next, $171 million is required for the continued implementation of Jordan’s Principle. The continued implementation of Jordan’s Principle aims to ensure that First Nations children have access to the health education and social products, services and supports they need when and where they need them, in accordance with the principles of substantive equality, best interests of the child and cultural appropriateness. We are working with First Nations partners, provinces and territories to develop long-term approaches to help better address the unique needs of First Nations children.
Another $90 million will support the continued implementation of the First Nations Child and Family Services Program, related Canadian Human Rights Tribunal orders and commitments in the Agreement-in-Principle on Long-Term Reform that were implemented in 2022.
Finally, $69.9 million will advance adult education for First Nations by expanding access to adult education to complete and/or upgrade elementary and secondary education for First Nations people ordinarily on reserve and those in the Yukon and Northwest Territories.
[Translation]
Indigenous Services Canada (ISC) has continued to shape the composition of services with Indigenous partners towards the goal of Indigenous-led design, delivery and control of services. The department will work towards this through the key areas of health, children and families, education, infrastructure, the environment, economic development and governance.
Since 2016, the government has allocated over $5.5 billion to improve health outcomes in Indigenous communities. This has increased access to timely and culturally appropriate medical care and mental health services for Indigenous peoples and supported distinctions-based priorities.
The department remains focused on the well-being of Indigenous children through its continuing work on the long‑term reform to child and family services on reserve and in Yukon. In addition, budget 2021 announced over $724 million for the safety of children and families through the Comprehensive Violence Prevention Strategy to increase the number of shelters and fund culturally-appropriate violence and prevention activities.
As of February 2023, approximately 17,000 students have been supported through the conclusion of nine regional education agreements. These agreements allow First Nations to lead the process of administering their own schools using a holistic approach that meets the learning and cultural needs of their students.
As of September 2022, over $8 billion has been allocated toward 7,875 projects that will benefit Indigenous communities.
As of February 2023, 138 long-term drinking water advisories have been lifted. However, there is still more work to be done to address the remaining 32 advisories in 28 communities. ISC will continue to work to eliminate all remaining long-term drinking water advisories on reserve and make sure that long-term resources are in place to prevent new ones.
Since 2016, over $1.4 billion has been allocated to address immediate housing needs and advance First Nations’ housing priorities on reserve.
As of September 2022, over 3,500 housing-related infrastructure projects have either been completed or are ongoing.
Lastly, ISC delivered the second year of the $117-million Indigenous Community Business Fund to support First Nation and Inuit communities to respond to their economic priorities during the pandemic and to assist community-owned businesses to recover operating losses. A total of 574 First Nation and Inuit communities and 111 community businesses were funded in 2021-22.
Métis businesses also received support through five Métis capital corporations.
[English]
I look forward to discussing any aspects of these estimates with you and welcome your questions regarding my presentation.
Meegwetch, thank you.
[Translation]
The Deputy Chair: Thank you very much, Mr. Geoffrion. Next we’ll go to Cheri Crosby, Assistant Deputy Minister and Chief Financial Officer at the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Armed Forces.
Cheri Crosby, Assistant Deputy Minister (Finance) and Chief Financial Officer, Department of National Defence and the Canadian Armed Forces: Mr. Chair and members of the committee, I would like to thank you for inviting me to present Supplementary Estimates (C) for fiscal year 2022-23 on behalf of the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Armed Forces.
[English]
I am joined by Lieutenant-General Frances Allen, Vice Chief of the Defence Staff, and Mr. Troy Crosby, Assistant Deputy Minister for Materiel.
I have prepared a brief statement, and after this my colleagues and I will be at your disposal to answer any questions you may have.
This year the Department of National Defence is requesting $933.4 million through Supplementary Estimates (C). This request represents an increase of 3.4% in the authorities to date for the fiscal year 2022-23.
National Defence is requesting $500 million to fund additional aid for Ukraine, including $250 million in Vote 1 that will be used to repay the $250 million that was internally reallocated at Supplementary Estimates (B).
To continue supporting overseas missions, National Defence is requesting funding for several ongoing military operations, including $167.8 million for funding Operation IMPACT in the Middle East, Operation REASSURANCE in Central and Eastern Europe, and Operation PRESENCE, peace support operations in Africa; $56.5 million for Operation UNIFIER in Ukraine, also included in our package; as well as $15.7 million for Operation ARTEMIS in Middle Eastern waters.
National Defence is also requesting $57.1 million to move forward with the United States on modernizing the North American Aerospace Defense Command, NORAD, and to sustain existing continental defence and Arctic capability; and $2.1 million to support the North Warning System, as was announced in Budget 2021.
National Defence is also requesting $55 million in funding for capital investments previously approved as part of the Capital Investment Fund. This funding, in particular, is being reallocated from the 2027-28 budget into the 2022-23 budget to support a particular project addressing Lightweight Torpedo upgrades. This project will upgrade the Canadian Armed Forces’ anti‑submarine capability against evolving near- and medium-term underwater threats.
As announced in Budget 2022, National Defence is requesting $12.2 million to improve health services for women and diverse members of the Canadian Armed Forces, or CAF; $8.8 million to implement initiatives in support of culture change in the CAF; $2.7 million for the modernization of the military justice system; and $500,000 for the implementation of the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples Act.
The department is also requesting a net increase of $18.3 million for various initiatives including the extension of the interim auxiliary oiler replenishment vessel contract, funding to support the disclosure of veterans’ health records to Veterans Affairs, reinvestment of revenues from the transfer or sale of real property, reinvestment of royalties from intellectual property and transfers to and from other government organizations to fund joint efforts.
These supplementary estimates also include an increase in statutory authorities of $36.8 million for legislated items including employee benefit plans.
[Translation]
In conclusion, the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Armed Forces continue to deliver on our core national mandate, while ensuring fiscal responsibility and effective resource management.
[English]
My colleagues and I would be pleased to address any questions and comments you may have. Thank you.
[Translation]
The Deputy Chair: Thank you very much for your presentations. We’ll move on to questions now. Senators have five minutes for the first round of questions and three minutes for the second round.
Please ask your questions directly. Witnesses, please keep your answers brief. The clerk will notify me when time is up. I will firmly but gently enforce speaking time. We’ll start with Senator Marshall, then Senator Gignac.
[English]
Senator Marshall: My first question is for the Department of National Defence, Ms. Crosby. Could you tell us when we are going to get the updated defence policy? It was mentioned in the budget last year. It’s been a year, and we’re waiting. Could you give us an update on that?
Ms. Crosby: Thank you for your question. You are absolutely right. It was announced that we would be doing a defence policy review or update in Budget 2022. We have been working diligently on that, and I suspect the results will be made public very soon.
Senator Marshall: Could you be more specific on “very soon”?
Ms. Crosby: Unfortunately, I can’t, because this is out of my hands, but rest assured we have been working on this. This is a very important milestone in our defence policy journey, and it is certainly timely given that Strong, Secure, Engaged, or SSE, was in 2017.
Senator Marshall: The 2017 policy also had a separate investment plan where we could see the capital investment by year. Will the new plan or the revised or updated plan also include the updated investment plan for the department by year?
Ms. Crosby: Thank you for your question. We do update our investment plan and we did receive technical approval for our plan last year, but it was just before the announcements for NORAD modernization and certainly prior to the defence policy update. So to quickly answer your question, yes, our intention, once all those decisions are made, is to include that information in our project update.
Senator Marshall: Thank you. My next question is on special and professional services, because your department is both the highest spender for the entire year and also has the highest request in Supplementary Estimates (C). Are you able to tell us specifically what the $373 million is for in Supplementary Estimates (C)?
Ms. Crosby: Thank you for your question. Good eye. It’s an interesting question, because it does stand out among the crowd.
What it is, basically, is a coding mechanism that we use for bringing money in and moving money around. So the vast majority of that money is actually related to the support we are giving to Ukraine. About $250 million of that $370 million is support for Ukraine. We coded it to that as a mechanism to put it into Vote 10, and now we are being reimbursed. That means the actual impact will be net zero, but it does throw that number off. It is really a coding issue.
There are other big-ticket items coded in there too, but again, they were primarily used to move money around, money associated with Lightweight Torpedo and so forth. We’re just using that as a coding mechanism.
Senator Marshall: For the entire year, you’re also at $5 billion, which is the highest when you look at the year in its entirety. What types of expenditures are in it? Are these consultants? When you look down the listing, it is not all consultants. There are special services there, too. Could you give us a flavour as to what is in that $5 billion?
Ms. Crosby: Typically, that code would be capturing quite a broad range of activities, including professional and special services. It could be payment services to accountants, lawyers, architects, engineers — of whom we do make great use — scientific analysts, even translators and teachers. It is a broad range of services, in particular, that we would code to that.
Senator Marshall: For consultants who are retained for your capital projects for ships or aircraft or whatever, would that show up in the $5 billion or would that be in with your capital expenditures?
Ms. Crosby: That’s a good question. I think we would capture it under “professional services” to break it down in that way, but it depends. If you are talking about public accounts in particular, then I would have to get back to you on that.
Senator Marshall: Could you? I would like to get a flavour as to what is in it.
About your capital projects, I noticed there was a transfer for $35 million. It was for the Canadian Surface Combatant apprenticeship training. It came out of your capital. Of course, you haven’t been spending your capital according to what you anticipated in Strong, Secure, Engaged, so what project did the $35 million come from?
Ms. Crosby: Thank you for that question. That particular transaction has, again, to do with accounting realignment. We have a budget for the Canadian Surface Combatant — $56 billion to $60 billion. Much of that is expensed as a capital: Vote 5. However, some activities are actually expensed as Vote 1. We are refining as we go. It’s out of the project, but we have moved it into Vote 1.
[Translation]
Senator Gignac: Good evening, witnesses. Thank you for being with us this evening. My first question is for the representatives of the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Armed Forces, so probably Lieutenant-General Allen. I had the opportunity to tour NORAD with my Senate Committee on National Security, Defence and Veterans Affairs colleagues. The department is asking for $57 million to modernize NORAD. Can you tell us what that money will be used for?
Members of the Senate Standing Committee on National Security, Defence and Veterans Affairs also had the opportunity to visit the Arctic, home of the North Warning System. If I am reading the description of this system correctly, it “provides surveillance of airspace from potential incursions or attacks.”
Will these investments enable us to detect balloons before they reach the United States? During our tour of NORAD, we learned that there are problems with the radar and alert system.
I thank the witnesses for everything they do for Canada.
[English]
Lieutenant-General Frances Allen, Vice Chief of the Defence Staff, National Defence: Thank you very much for the question. Certainly, the funding that is identified within the Supplementary Estimates (C) relates to the North Warning System, which is our current warning system that is used as part of the detection for NORAD going forward and, as you rightly point out, with respect to our northern approaches through the Arctic.
The funding we are currently applying for is for maintaining the current systems that we have. New funding was approved from the government back in 2022 for modernizing the NORAD system itself in a much larger way. The North Warning System has been around for quite some time.
The projects that are part of the NORAD modernization — which is not the funding you see represented here in the supplementary estimates — are really to do with that broader improvement of sensor and aggregation of information so that the commander of NORAD, who provides that protection and defensive function for the continent, has better access to the sensor data that is needed to understand what is happening within the environment — not just within the continent but obviously at the approaches and the Maritime approaches coming to the continent.
[Translation]
Senator Gignac: My next question is about what we’re doing for Ukraine. There’s half a billion dollars in the Supplementary Estimates (C) to fund military aid for Ukraine.
Can you tell us what Canada has done so far? What are the goals? What governance exists with respect to accountability for the funds and effectiveness? We’ve heard about things going on in Ukraine, where there might have been corruption. We know President Zelenskyy has done some housecleaning with respect to accountability. Can you tell us about financial assistance provided to Ukraine to date and oversight for the money being spent over there?
[English]
LGen. Allen: Thank you for the question. Canada has been committed and engaged with our partners in Ukraine since 2015. In that time frame, we have been supporting Ukraine military forces with training, now having trained over 30,000 members of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. Obviously, the nature of that training has evolved over time from a skills perspective back in 2015-16 to a leadership development perspective. Certainly, Russia’s invasion into Ukraine in February of last year changed it significantly.
Currently, Canadian Forces are involved in the basic training of Ukrainian soldiers in the United Kingdom. We are part of the broader initiative to provide basic training to Ukrainian soldiers in the U.K. as well as in Poland and Germany. We provide some tank engineering training as well as engineering support training going forward.
That is where our efforts are right now. There is obviously a broader international effort related to coordinating the equipment requirements that Ukraine has to be able to continue in the conflict with Russia.
With respect to the broader political and policy perspectives and discussions, I would probably turn the floor over to my colleagues at Global Affairs Canada to provide that broader perspective. From the Canadian Armed Forces’ perspective, our efforts have been toward working with our allies to best support Ukraine’s needs, including funding of lethal and non-lethal equipment through the $1.2 billion that the Government of Canada has asked us to source equipment for.
[Translation]
Senator Gignac: I would like to add that even the President of the European Commission commended the efforts of the Canadian Armed Forces because they were very important during the early days of the invasion of Ukraine.
Thank you for everything you do for us and for them.
[English]
Senator Smith: I have a question for the Global Affairs group concerning the $50 million in funding requested in support of the financial intermediary fund for pandemic prevention, preparedness and response. Could you please elaborate on what this fund is intended to do and how exactly it will fund pandemic prevention, preparedness and response programs?
Ms. Ouellette: Thank you, Senator Smith, for your question. Indeed, we are requesting $50 million through the Supplementary Estimates (C) to support the financial intermediary fund for pandemic prevention, preparedness and response. The expected result from this will be to contribute to the overall pandemic prevention, again, and response by reducing health, social and economic costs of the pandemic as well as broad prevention, preparedness and response outcomes.
Through this initiative, Global Affairs Canada’s investment in the financial intermediary fund for the pandemic will support improved national disease surveillance that encompasses multi‑sectoral approaches, expanded laboratory and testing capacity, the strengthening of the data-sharing platform at the regional and global levels, improved health system resilience and the strengthening of community-level resilience.
Thank you.
Senator Smith: Geographically, exactly what countries are involved? What types of results have been delivered to this particular point in time?
Ms. Ouellette: I will ask my colleague Joshua Tabah to answer that question.
Joshua Tabah, Director General, Health and Nutrition, Global Affairs Canada: Thank you for the excellent question. My name is Joshua Tabah. I’m Director General of Health and Nutrition at Global Affairs Canada.
The financial mechanism will work through a call for proposals process. The total resources mobilized to the Pandemic Fund at the World Bank are around $1.6 billion right now from a coalition of donors. Canada is an inaugural donor. Those funds will be allocated through a series of calls for proposals. The first call for proposals happened to just launch last Friday. It has a global remit, but it will prioritize applications from developing countries that choose to work together and in partnership with a series of implementing agencies from the existing global health architecture or United Nations or World Bank entities.
As the CFO said, we’ll be looking for proposals that aim to strengthen country and regional surveillance and laboratory capacity to identify biological threats and help reinforce country capacity to respond to them.
Senator Smith: Which countries are directly involved in this at this particular time?
Mr. Tabah: We expect a significant number of proposals from countries in sub-Saharan Africa, but we expect countries in Asia and Latin America also to produce proposals. We will only have selected which proposals will be funded by later this spring. We’ll be happy to come back at a later date to provide clarity on where that first round of $300 million in funding is going.
Senator Smith: What is Canada’s commitment to the project totally at this particular time?
Mr. Tabah: The $50 million is the total commitment identified by the Prime Minister at the G20 conference. That made us an inaugural donor. We have a board seat on the executive board. That was through the first round of financing for this fund.
Senator Smith: What do you anticipate is the next step in the process?
Mr. Tabah: The call for proposals will bring in a large number of proposals. They will be assessed by an independent technical advisory board chaired by the World Health Organization, which will make recommendations on how to prioritize and fund proposals. Canada, as a member of the governance committee, will be involved in finalizing the selection of proposals to fund, and then the funds will flow to those partners starting this summer.
Senator Smith: Thank you.
Senator Loffreda: Thank you to all our panellists for being here this evening. Welcome to our National Finance Committee. My question is for National Defence. Thank you for all that you do.
My question is on an extremely important matter. Although the amount is nominal given the amount of $897 million you are requesting in additional voted appropriations in Supplementary Estimates (C), I would like to talk about the $8.8 million being requested to support culture change in the Canadian Armed Forces. I commend the government and the forces for their commitment to creating a culture that ensures every member serves in an environment where they feel safe, protected and respected.
I know the government has committed to undertaking engagement and consultation on culture change and that the position of Chief Professional Conduct and Culture, or CPCC, was created in the spring of 2021. Are you seeing any early and positive results from the work of the CPCC? Are current members of the forces and the department receptive to these efforts? What are you hearing from possible future recruits who are considering the Armed Forces as a career choice? Do they feel the forces are fully and sincerely committed to updating the current policies, procedures, programs and practices with respect to harassment and misconduct in the workplace?
LGen. Allen: Thank you for the question. It is an issue that is at the heart of our effectiveness as a military. People being part of the military need to feel that they belong. The culture that we set within the military is an important part of that. It’s critical to us because to do the work that we are asked to do, as the military, to conduct the operations the Government of Canada asks us to do, everyone must feel like they are part of the team. Everybody has to feel that they are part of the group, both in terms of the activities that we do and in terms of attracting people to our organization and wanting to be part of the Canadian Armed Forces.
Since the stand about CPCC, as you identified, there have been a series of activities that have taken place that have been of small scale but important. We have had the results of a number of external reports, which have also provided recommendations along areas related not just to culture change but to sexual misconduct in the military, with respect to the advancing of professional development and succession planning within the military. At the same time, we also have external reports from Justice Fish, which are part of the Independent Review of the National Defence Act, which is required every seven years. We are taking those recommendations and considering them as we take a look at this culture change evolution.
There has been progress in some areas, and I will tell you that we can have lots of strategic plans and policies — which are important because they create the long-term change that you’re looking for — but you also need the short-term and the smaller things that take place that people see where they live and where they work so that they feel the difference that is happening.
In that vein, there has been both small-scale and large, formational, strategic work that Lieutenant-General Carignan, as the Chief of Professional Conduct and Culture, has been undertaking. Some of the small-scale changes have been relating to creating leadership support teams that can help when there are challenges in a workplace or when you’re looking to try to identify how to resolve conflict. They can come in and help the organization because trying to deal with complaints — complaints are an element of culture, how well heard people feel they are. Working on those elements is important.
We have been also having a focus on our grievance and complaints system and how we actually try to improve that moving forward.
Other smaller-scale initiatives have been the change to the dress regulations, to how people feel that they can — your professionalism is not reflected by the length of your hair. If you want to wear purple nail polish, that does not make you less of a professional. What makes you the professional is adherence to the values and the ethics that we have within the Canadian Armed Forces. The Trusted to Serve ethos was recently revised and released last year, codifying again for us and giving us those values and those ethics that we are all to adhere to as we move forward. Some of these initiatives are very large and are about creating the changes on a structural, institutional level, but we also need small successes so that people, where they work and live, feel that this change is happening around them.
[Translation]
Senator Dagenais: My question is for Ms. Crosby. Aid to Ukraine is particularly important, but to what extent can those spending decisions be political and not be made by the people who, like you, have to act on them? Is there a forum or forums where countries that support Ukraine discuss the investments they’re each making to do so? Do you have any idea what other countries are doing when this spending is announced?
[English]
LGen. Allen: If it is all right with the senator, I can provide some context to that question if that is okay.
Certainly, I would say that what we are trying to do is listen to the Ukrainians with respect to what it is that they need when it comes to both the lethal and non-lethal support they have going through. As we come together as a community, we have the Ukraine Defense Contact Group, which sits and talks about military aid that is needed. That group is many nations that meet almost every two months or every three months to look at that next round of what is required, what each nation can give and how we want to look at taking that forward. There is indeed international collaboration. Ukraine is quite clear about the things that they are looking for.
From a Canadian perspective, we then take a look and see what the possibility for Canada is to be able to do that, for the Canadian Armed Forces or for Canada as a nation, to be able to look to lean into the providing of that aid.
What they ask for has evolved and changed over time, and as we moved into winter, there was a call for winter clothing and equipment because we would have that, but obviously fire power, ammunition and lethal aid are always going to be top of mind because of the nature of the conflict and the prolonged, protracted conflict that they have.
[Translation]
Senator Dagenais: Thank you very much, lieutenant-general.
Ms. Crosby, I’d like to ask you about the infamous Chinese balloon incidents of recent weeks. As my colleague Senator Gignac said, that focused our attention on the importance of our participation in NORAD. In the supplementary estimates, there’s an additional $57 million to modernize our equipment. Do you have ways to measure whether those investments are worthwhile?
[English]
Ms. Crosby: Thank you very much for your question. I will start and maybe turn it over to the general to finish.
As for the investments that we are making in NORAD, as you know, the government did make a commitment to spend $87 billion over the next 20 years to invest in very important initiatives related to NORAD, specifically investments that will improve our surveillance, our communication in the Arctic, our ability to stay on top of what is happening in the Arctic.
Supplementary Estimates (C) do access seed money to allow us to maintain the North Warning System and to improve communications and do research and development in the North that would assist in that.
I will turn it over to the general to describe a little more thoroughly what we are doing with respect to surveillance or other things.
LGen. Allen: Thank you. I can provide some additional information.
The NORAD warning system is the current system which provides the surveillance and a warning to NORAD. Over time, not only has the environment changed, and the equipment itself needs to continue to be maintained, but the threats have changed, and the technical nature of those threats have been changing.
We need to continue to evolve our capacity to sense those threats at greater distances because they become more lethal to us from a greater distance. Previously, you needed to be closer to deliver lethal effect; now you do not. You can be further away. Our sensing capability needs to improve to continue to provide the level of security and safety to Canada.
The NORAD modernization has some investment that is related to improved sensing. It has investment that is related to improved infrastructure and basing in the North. That’s part of the broader investment in NORAD modernization and not necessarily the funding you see here in Supplementary Estimates (C).
Senator Bovey: My questions are for Indigenous Services Canada. I’m going to change the tone here.
I know you have responsibilities for housing, community infrastructure and social programs. In my many travels up to the Arctic and into northern Indigenous communities, I could see the housing situation is pretty awful. As permafrost is melting and climate change is happening, we see more and more mould in those houses.
I wonder if any of your work or any of this money is going to help people in the North and in remote communities develop building codes that will sustain the weather conditions that they are built in. I have been stunned how their building codes are those that we have down south, and it’s just not the same.
Mr. Geoffrion: Thank you for the question. I believe the building codes are administered by the National Research Council. I don’t think that Indigenous Services Canada is involved in the building codes. I’ll turn to my colleague.
Senator Bovey: I can put it another way.
In my travels to many of these communities, as we take a look at our youth, some of the buildings they have to play in and live in are awful. They lack recreational facilities. Surely that comes under Indigenous Services Canada, doesn’t it? Codes may be one thing, but they have to be implemented somewhere. Aren’t they implemented under Indigenous Services Canada?
Mr. Geoffrion: I’ll pass it to my colleague Sylvain Souligny.
Sylvain Souligny, Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Regional Operations, Indigenous Services Canada: Thank you for your question.
Up front, infrastructure in the North, housing fall under the responsibility of our colleagues in Crown-Indigenous Relations, with whom we work very closely, along with Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, or CMHC, when it comes to housing.
When it comes to codes, certainly there are codes and norms that are established. I don’t want to speak on behalf of other organizations, but when it comes to housing for which Indigenous Services Canada is responsible and also other infrastructure for First Nations communities that we provide services to, the funding goes to communities. They have responsibility and authority over the administration of that. Certainly in doing so, codes are being communicated.
With respect to your question, more specific to the North, I would be happy to put you in touch with the right colleagues over at Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada, or CIRNAC.
Senator Bovey: I am going to go in a different direction.
There was a mayor series of arrests last Friday of eight people for forging the work of Indigenous artist Norval Morrisseau. Hundreds of millions of dollars’ worth of work was defrauded — the largest art fraud in Canadian history of any type.
I’m well aware of a number of other rings working out of Eastern Europe, which may tie us into other departments and, in the North, of huge fakes being done, costing our First Nations artists and their businesses lots of money. Nobody can tell me where that falls.
How do we protect the artists in these communities? Where are they going to get the legal funds to try to reclaim their legacies and their income? I’m not getting any answers. I knew you could help me. Is that skills training so that they know the legal side of their businesses? I don’t know. When we are all over the international press for the largest art fraud in Canada and one of the largest in the world, and it is affecting our Indigenous artists, it is sad.
Mr. Geoffrion: We’ll have to get back to you on that. I do not have the answer.
[Translation]
The Deputy Chair: Could you provide a written answer?
Mr. Geoffrion: Yes, we can get that to you in writing.
The Deputy Chair: Thank you.
[English]
Senator Boehm: Thank you. My questions are for Global Affairs Canada.
Your big ask is for $370 million to help developing countries address the impact of climate change. The information we have is this is to support multi-donor initiatives.
I would like a clearer idea of which multi-donor initiatives those are. What is the breakdown? We know there is the Green Climate Fund, or the GCF, there is the GEF, there is the SCCF, the LDCF — I will explain all of this — it is the Least Developed Countries Fund and other funds. These are all big multilateral funds that Canada has contributed to over the years.
I would be interested in knowing the breakdown there but also whether there is any bilateral assistance that is being given, especially to small island states, with respect to both adaptation and mitigation projects.
In my travels over the years, I have discovered that in many small countries they want access to these funds. They can’t get the access quickly because it falls to officials in a beleaguered Department of Finance, who are doing other things to make the applications. Sometimes the applications are very difficult to make.
So the last portion of that particular question is whether there is any technical assistance that Canada might be offering on a bilateral basis or through regional development banks or in some way to assist these countries that stand to lose the most through the impact of climate change.
Ms. Ouellette: Thank you, Senator Boehm, for your question. I will start and then ask my colleague to complete.
In terms of the breakdown of the amount presented or being sought in the Supplementary Estimates (C), there is $250 million that is for funding in support of green economy transition for the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development, or EBRD, countries and $120 million in support of the Accelerating Coal Transition investment program.
A part of the $250 million is a component that is exactly for technical assistance, in the amount of $13 million.
In terms of the question related to the Small Island Developing States, yes, we are a co-chair in a group of friends on financing the development of Jamaica, among other things. With that, I’ll let Ms. Do complete my answer.
Cam Do, Director General, Innovative and Climate Finance Bureau, Global Affairs Canada: Thank you and good evening, I’m Cam Do, the Director General for the Innovative and Climate Finance Bureau at GAC.
To add to that, for bilateral funding, yes, we know that, bilaterally, a lot of the funds require grants, especially talking about Small Island Developing States, or SIDS. They can’t access the loans. They don’t want to be any more in debt. There is a grant portion of the $5.3 billion, which is 40%, that goes through the bilateral desk as well as through other government departments. So Natural Resources Canada and Environment and Climate Change Canada have access to those funds as well.
On access to funds for technical assistance and accessing finance, we had a specific initiative called the Rocky Mountain Institute that was targeted to help SIDS and Pacific SIDS with their technical capacity to find funding with the Green Climate Fund. We also gave about $300 million to the GCF, and of that there is a small portion to help with getting the projects and countries ready to access the funds.
Senator Boehm: Is there a lot of donor coordination going on?
Ms. Do: I would say we are getting better. Some of the funds, like the EBRD — the European one — is a multi-donor fund. There are six donors that are part of this fund, and we are coordinating to come to the same objectives and achieve the same goals in the same countries. The Climate Investment Funds is also a multi-donor fund, and I think that there are also six donors there. There is coordination happening, and through the governance committees we are trying to create more coordination.
Senator Boehm: Where is our overall ranking as Canada in terms of percentages?
Ms. Do: Of funding? I would have to get back to you. I don’t have that off the top of my head.
Senator Boehm: Usually we run around the middle of the pack or eighth or ninth or so.
Ms. Do: Specifically in terms of funding for the Climate Investment Funds, this one we are just about to do, we are number 2, right behind the U.S. It really depends on the fund. Globally, I would have to get back to you. I can get that to you in writing.
Senator Boehm: Thank you. Do I still have some time?
[Translation]
The Deputy Chair: Unfortunately not. I’ll put you down for the second round.
Senator Boehm: Thank you.
Senator Galvez: I’d like to take this opportunity to thank Senator Bovey and Senator Boehm, who asked questions about climate change. I don’t feel so alone today. Thank you very much.
[English]
Recently, I went to New York and spoke with an outstanding Canadian from New Brunswick, Gilles Michaud, who is the Under-Secretary-General for Safety and Security of the United Nations. He takes care of millions of people and deals with tens of billions of dollars in humanitarian aid to high-risk areas. He talked about how often he goes to areas that are impacted by climate change and extreme weather events. He has these very simple requests: He needs $10 million in order to start a new unit that will allow him to respond in a timely manner and in security and safety for the people he travels with. He asks this of you. Is it possible that we can give $10 million to this person in the United Nations?
My more general question, which follows up on what Senator Boehm was saying, is about how this proposed funding to climate change initiatives in developing countries aligns with Canada’s commitment under the Paris Agreement and how it will contribute to the global effort to limit greenhouse gas emissions and to prevent catastrophic climate change.
And, again, to follow up on the question of Senator Boehm, what is the percentage of our fair share for the loss and damage fund that we are supposed to contribute to? Thank you.
Ms. Ouellette: Thank you, Senator Galvez, for your questions. As for your first question, I will need to get back to you. As for the second question, I’ll turn it over again to my colleague Cam Do.
Senator Galvez: Is there a person I can write to in order to ask that we say yes to this request by this outstanding Canadian working at the UN? Nice try?
Ms. Do: Maybe I can answer that. For the climate finance initiative, we do have a portal on our website that takes all submissions. We accept all submissions through this portal, so this person can go to that portal and submit their proposal, and that will eventually reach our desk or the specific region or country. That’s on our website.
In terms of a percent of fair share for loss and damage, that was an issue that came up at the COP 27 negotiations, and they are currently negotiating it. The lead on the negotiations are our colleagues at Environment and Climate Change, but we work very closely with them. There is now a working group that has been set up that will meet three times this year so they can speak to it at COP 28 in November.
In terms of whether our funding is aligned with the Paris Agreement, it is 100% aligned with the Paris Agreement. The overarching framework for the $5.3-billion commitment is the Feminist International Assistance Policy and also the Paris Agreement. When we set up this commitment, it was aligned with mitigation and adaptation, hence from our previous $2.65 billion we moved from 70% mitigation and 30% adaptation to now an almost balanced approach of 60% mitigation and 40% adaptation. We have a public target of 40% on our adaptation funding.
[Translation]
The Deputy Chair: Perfect. Thank you very much.
[English]
Senator Duncan: Thank you to the witnesses who are here. I would like to try to get two departments in if I could, so I might ask for a response in writing.
I would like to thank the Department of National Defence for your leadership and your commitment to Arctic security. I do fully appreciate that your resources have been stretched to the limit with Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, as well as the very important policy initiatives you have outlined tonight.
I have recently written to your minister asking that, within the context of the Department of National Defence, there be an enhanced visibility of the department in the Yukon. I’m not making light of the situation, but I have felt to some degree that the Yukon is being considered a bit of a flyover part of the country in the references to NORAD because we don’t have staffed NORAD sites. When people reference Arctic security, they begin with N.W.T. and Nunavut, leaving us wholly dependent on Alaska. My specific question, if you could answer in writing, is this: Is there any funding in NORAD spending that you can outline for me that is for Joint Task Force North specifically? Could I respectfully request a greater awareness of the resources that you do have in the Yukon, at camp Boyle specifically? If I could have that answer in writing.
If I could get in quickly, in my short time, to Indigenous Services Canada, there are two highlighted points in your supplementary budget. There are grants to provide income support to on-reserve residents and status “Indians” — it should say “First Nations” — in the Yukon Territory, and there are contributions to provide income support to on-reserve residents and status First Nations. There aren’t reserves in the Yukon. There are lands set aside, and we have 11 of 14 settled First Nations. Could you please outline for me the difference between grants and contributions and where this money is intended to go? Is it for all 14 First Nations or for the 3 without final land claim agreements?
Mr. Geoffrion: Thank you for the question. The difference between a contribution and a grant comes down to the reporting necessary and the accountability of reporting back to the government with the amounts spent and on what. A grant is normally provided to the recipient for an intended purpose but without requiring full accounting of expenditures after the fact, whereas a contribution has a regimented reporting mechanism that the community or recipient needs to report back on.
Senator Duncan: So might the contributions be part of a land claim agreement or for the non-settled First Nations?
Mr. Geoffrion: Thank you. I had to consult my colleague because the land, that would be a CIRNAC land claim. Land claims are under CIRNAC and not ISC.
Senator Duncan: Are all of these funds for the three unsettled First Nations? There are none for the settled? If you like, you can provide that answer in writing. It’s probably easier.
Mr. Geoffrion: I think we will provide that in writing. We will need to go back into the detail.
Senator Duncan: If I could have the breakdown of those two lines, please. Thank you.
Mr. Geoffrion: Thank you.
Senator Moncion: My first question is for Ms. Crosby. The amount is not huge, but I wanted to understand. You said there was half a million dollars for the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, or UNDRIP. Could you explain which section or what it comes under with UNDRIP?
Ms. Crosby: I can start that discussion, but I may have to get back to you exactly on the details of which section. What I would say is that in Budget 2022 there was an announcement that National Defence would be funded to the tune of $40 million to support engagement consultation and partnering with Indigenous communities, particularly in the North. In Supplementary Estimates (C) we are accessing some funding to set that program up, so we are in the early days yet, and I really cannot provide further details yet until we get a little further down in the progress.
I don’t know, Lieutenant-General, if you know anything more about the particulars.
LGen. Allen: No, I don’t actually have much more information other than this is sort of the initial work to set up the consultation framework and for the consultation framework application process.
Senator Moncion: The reason why I ask — because my next question is going to be for Indigenous Services — is the fact that often when we look at the supplementary estimates, there are different amounts for Indigenous communities or Indigenous projects but they are not under the Indigenous Affairs — the reconciliation and the amount of money that is being provided to Indigenous Services Canada — so I’m wondering why it is under the purview of Defence and not under Indigenous Services.
Ms. Crosby: Maybe I can start that question and pass it to my colleagues, just to say that many departments, depending on what they do — I used to work at Natural Resources, and we would have opportunities to consult and engage with Indigenous communities, so we would contribute or support their involvement. At National Defence — same opportunity — we have custodial properties in the North, for example, which we may need to divest of or do other things with. We also have access to grants and contribution programs to enable consultation with Indigenous peoples. We are implementing programs across government and we have a small slice of that.
Senator Moncion: Is there somewhere a consolidation of all the amounts that are being provided for Indigenous issues? Is there a consolidated spreadsheet that we can look at to see all the money and the initiatives that are put forward?
Mr. Geoffrion: Indeed, many different departments offer services and are involved in Indigenous issues. Indigenous Services Canada has all the services or most of the services. I am not aware of a consolidation of funds that are allocated to Indigenous issues across government, but I’ll go back and see if that exists somewhere. I am just not aware of it.
[Translation]
Senator Moncion: The money you’re asking for includes amounts for health, children’s services, economic development and infrastructure. Then you talk about children’s health and well-being. It seems like some of the amounts you’re asking for are for the same things. These are probably different health-related things, but you’re not giving that information. That’s why I want a better understanding of the amounts.
You talked about two amounts, one being $5.5 billion and another one that I didn’t write down. There are about 10 different titles in the first one, and fewer in the second, but some of the titles seem to be repeated.
Mr. Geoffrion: Of course, the titles that appear more than once relate to different but related programs. For example, children’s services —
[English]
There is the new act that aims to transfer accountability and ownership of Child and Family Services to the communities, which is often referred to as Bill C-92. That is being treated separately from First Nations and Child and Family Services, which is considered the old system. We definitely keep the funds separate as the program reforms.
We also have money in our funds requested in Supplementary Estimates (C) for Jordan’s Principle, which, as you know, aims to identify funding gaps between programs and to have a mechanism to transfer those funds to communities and individuals as they need them. That is also a third category of funds.
On the support to children, we have those three items within the supplementary estimates.
[Translation]
The Deputy Chair: Thank you very much. That concludes the first round of questions. I’d like to remind you that we received the order of reference from the Senate yesterday and the report has to be tabled by the end of March. Would you please forward your written answers to the clerk by March 17 so we can finish drafting the report?
Let’s move on to the second round of questions. Senators, you have three minutes each, and I would ask the witnesses to keep their answers as brief as possible.
[English]
Senator Marshall: My questions now are for Indigenous Services Canada. This question could be posed to a number of departments.
Last year you lapsed over $3 billion. I know this year you are asking in Supplementary Estimates (C) for $765 million. I’m well assured you are going to lapse at least $1 million this year. If there is sufficient funding already in your budget, why do you come and request additional funds in Supplementary Estimates (C)? Explain what the government process is.
Mr. Geoffrion: Thank you, senator. Last year, we indeed had a $3-billion lapse. Most of those funds were reprofiled into this year, 2022-23, for use and available to the program.
Senator Marshall: Was that the $2 billion that was frozen?
Mr. Geoffrion: No.
Senator Marshall: Okay.
Mr. Geoffrion: That would be something different. Now, the $777 million that we are asking in Supplementary Estimates (C), we expect to be able to spend that money on those specific programs.
Senator Marshall: Okay. You mentioned earlier about the implementation of Jordan’s Principle, and there is $170 million there. We see that request for funding to comply with the Jordan’s Principle issue quite regularly. Is that an open-ended program?
Mr. Geoffrion: Thank you for that question. On Jordan’s Principle, we have the legal obligation to reimburse or to fund those requests that are gaps within all of our programs. In terms of open-ended, we have a legal obligation to pay all those items. Therefore, we come here on a yearly basis for additional funds.
Senator Marshall: What is the funding based on? Who receives the funding? The money goes out to individual families, right?
Mr. Geoffrion: Those funds could go to a variety of areas. They can be going to families, they can be going to individuals, and they can be going to organizations and communities.
Senator Marshall: Is there a formula? If you need respite care, do you get a certain standard amount?
Mr. Geoffrion: Those items are all specific reimbursement claims. They are not based on formulas. They are based on actual services and the cost of those services.
Senator Marshall: Okay. Thank you.
[Translation]
Senator Gignac: My question is for the officials from the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Armed Forces. My colleague Senator Galvez will like this one because it has to do with climate change.
Two weeks ago, I attended the NATO Parliamentary Assembly in Brussels. I found out that Montreal was going to be the host city for the NATO Climate Change and Security Centre of Excellence. I’d like you to comment on that.
In terms of commitments, what are the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Armed Forces providing? The centre of excellence is currently being set up, so how many people are going to work there? How much funding will the centre of excellence receive? Thank you.
[English]
LGen. Allen: Thank you. I can provide some information on that, senator, but I don’t have access to any financials or the funding that is part of that.
I would say that this is the culmination of what has been discussed in NATO for some time. As you mentioned, you heard through your visits over there about the establishment of this Climate Change and Security Centre of Excellence. It will be an opportunity for NATO nations to work together. Canada offered to host this. Centres of excellence exist in many NATO countries. Canada, with its interest in and commitment to the impacts of climate change, offered to sponsor this. It is looking for the representation and the participation of many NATO members as part of it, but, yes, it is going to be hosted in Canada.
Senator Gignac: It’s at the first stages, as I understand it.
LGen. Allen: That is correct.
Senator Gignac: Maybe we’ll have more in the Main Estimates. I will give my time to my colleagues.
[Translation]
The Deputy Chair: That’s very kind of you.
[English]
Senator Smith: I just wanted to go back to the Department of National Defence and the $56-million commitment to the Operation UNIFIER. According to your department, the majority of Operation UNIFIER returned to Canada in March 2022, and some aspects of the mission were put on hold. I’m just wondering where that project is at right now. You mentioned it started in 2016, but I read somewhere it was 2014. From 2014 to 2016 and past that time, how many people have we trained? How many are we training now for the second phase of the war? How many Canadians are deployed in Europe right now? Just give us a little bit of background. How many are in the different countries who are associated with training development of the defence issue for Ukraine?
LGen. Allen: Certainly. Thank you for the question.
As you stated, Canada has been involved in supporting Ukraine since 2015. But since the invasion of Russia into Ukraine, the nature, methods and focus of that training have shifted and changed.
Currently, Operation UNIFIER has a ceiling of up to 400 CAF members who are deployed. Not all of them are in training functions. Some are in coordination functions with other nations. However, the training activities that are undertaken relate to basic training of Ukrainian forces in the United Kingdom: engineering training, tank driver and maintenance training and medic training.
Senator Smith: What type of numbers do we want to get trained for the next phase? They say we have already trained 30,000 to 35,000. How many more people will be available to train in the short term to make the next push — hopefully to make a major change in the war?
LGen. Allen: The capacity of Ukraine to both fight a war and bring people to be trained has to be balanced. Nations are looking to support whatever Ukraine needs. Currently, for example, the combat medic training that is under way will take four weeks to train 40 combat medics. But Ukraine has to be able to free people up from their military jobs to go do the training as well as free up the recruits who are coming in to have that training and then transition back into operational jobs.
Senator Smith: Do we have any idea what type of numbers could be trained for the next push?
LGen. Allen: I don’t think we have access to how many could be trained.
Senator Smith: Let me simplify by asking if there is an objective they want to have done short term to make sure we have as many troops available as possible to support the effort of Ukraine.
LGen. Allen: We look to meet whatever it is Ukraine asks of us from a training perspective.
Senator Loffreda: My question, again, is for the Department of National Defence. I am particularly interested in Arctic sovereignty and Canada’s role in protecting and defending the North, especially with today’s geopolitical tension.
Nearly $60 million is being sought through these estimates for NORAD and the Canadian Armed Forces communications capabilities. In your departmental plan, you note that climate change will impact the nation’s ability to detect, deter and degrade threats to Canadians and Canadian interests in the future — like stressing the need for increased and improved resources specific to the Arctic. Interoperability deficiencies and existing communication systems between the Canadian Armed Forces and other governmental departments caused a 5% decline in efficiency.
Can you speak to us about these communication challenges? What is the department doing to rectify the situation and return to a 100% performance rating? An additional question on NORAD: What are Canada and the United States doing to safeguard our sovereignty in the North?
Ms. Crosby: I’ll start, Lieutenant-General, and then I’ll pass it to you. In Supplementary Estimates (C), we are indeed asking for access to $58.2 million. That’s a portion of the $252 million that was announced over five years in Budget 2022. This was specifically to modernize the long-range communications capabilities that are critical to the CAF and NORAD operations in remote regions of Canada, including the Arctic.
LGen. Allen: Thank you. You have hit on many themes in your very excellent question because you have spoken about climate change. How does that change the security picture when you think about how it pertains to access to the North and to northern waters? How does that actually change the way in which we need to ensure we have an understanding about what is happening in the North? We have communication and radar systems, and we need to ensure they continue to be able to operate and function appropriately as we are at this time still looking to invest in new systems to address new types of threats that come through.
Always in the North, we know the needs of one should never be the focus. We have to also look at what can happen to support the needs of the community and other federal, provincial and territorial departments. We should be thinking about that as we go forward.
Finally, I would say that we are fully aware that consultation is going to be necessary to understand what the people living in the North are experiencing and how our work, as we look to modernize NORAD and operate in the North, informs us in the activities we undertake — the operations and exercises we have, NANOOK in Nunavut — and the infrastructure we may be building.
Senator Duncan: I would like to follow up further on the Department of National Defence in the North and the Yukon’s role in particular.
You mentioned infrastructure. I’m not necessarily looking for resources. It’s a greater awareness and an understanding of what we do have in the Yukon and our role to play in this as well because we tend to focus on the Arctic waters, and that increases our dependence on Alaska.
For example, your infrastructure needs and notes from the Department of National Defence, the fibre-optic line, there is work by the Yukon government to put a fibre-optic line from Whitehorse up the Dempster Highway, but it’s not included in your notes. We need a greater communication.
I’m looking also at the Joint Tack Force North information. The Yukon isn’t mentioned in it.
You have excellent facilities at Camp Boyle Barracks, which are underutilized. They need an investment for winterization. They are used to some degree. I understand department resources are limited. There needs to be greater attention to the link of the Yukon in there as well. That’s what I’m looking for. I’m looking to see if the Yukon could be included in the Joint Task Force North expenditures.
I understand Operation NANOOK is in the Yukon this year, so you’ll certainly get a greater awareness then. If you could identify that funding as well, I would appreciate it.
To Indigenous Services, throughout your allocation of resources and funding, you used the blanket term “North.” Could you provide to us a greater breakdown by territory of some of these funding items? For example, there is a contribution of $12,770,000 to promote social and political development in the North and for northerners. Where is that money going? If you could provide that answer in writing, please. Thank you.
[Translation]
The Deputy Chair: Did you get that? Please do so by March 17. Thank you.
[English]
Senator Boehm: I have another question set for Global Affairs Canada. This time, I promise I won’t speak in acronyms. This is on consular services. It’s a relatively small amount of $6.4 million in funding for the reinforcement and modernization of consular capacity.
Could you give us an idea what this reinforcement is? Are these post-pandemic lessons learned in terms of services provided to Canadians that are our missions abroad? Is this an evergreen project? Is this a one-off? Is this for updated applications or online applications, for example? Is any of this inspired by the new Indo-Pacific Strategy? Is there any sort of advertising component to this to let Canadians know that beyond travel advisories, there are services that can be provided to them so they have a clearer picture? There are about four or five questions there.
Ms. Ouellette: Thank you, Senator Boehm. I’ll try to answer all of them.
Indeed, we do ask for $6.3 million through the Supplementary Estimates (C). That said, overall, we are requesting $95.3 million over six years and $17.5 million ongoing.
This funding will allow the consular program to adapt and modernize service delivery in the evolving international landscape and to leverage consular diplomacy and engage constructively with domestic and international stakeholders to advocate for a number of issues affecting Canadians. It will also allow the program to improve prevention efforts, to increase awareness of consular services with continued emphasis on client-focused services to better serve Canadians, contributing to their safety and security.
That said, I’m not sure exactly the kind of mechanism we would use apart from what we have on the website, the notification services that we do have.
Senator Boehm: Will you be updating the case management system that is being used?
Ms. Ouellette: The case management system which, internally, we call ORBIS, has been updated and modernized. In fact, it started last spring. We will continue to improve the service to Canadians with two new releases, yes.
Senator Boehm: But none of this is regionally specific, yes? It’s not related to the Indo-Pacific strategy? There will be other resource asks for that, I assume.
Ms. Ouellette: The Indo-Pacific, yes, is another landscape.
Senator Boehm: I see Mr. Lundy nodding behind you. I understand. Thank you very much.
[Translation]
Senator Moncion: My question is along the same lines as the earlier discussion about Indigenous affairs and all the money from different departments. However, it relates to Global Affairs Canada and the additional funding being sought. You are requesting $18 million to provide Ukraine with non-lethal military equipment. Then, the Department of National Defence is seeking $56,498,000 for the military mission in Ukraine. You explained what the missions were. How do you record the funding in a consolidated way, to get a sense of all the money being used for that purpose, whether it’s for tanks or missions in Poland or elsewhere? Does anyone record that funding in a consolidated way?
Ms. Ouellette: You’re right that a number of departments contribute to the response to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. As per our departmental responsibilities, each of us has to report on those activities in our annual departmental reports. To answer your question, I have to say that, to my knowledge, there unfortunately isn’t a consolidated record of that spending, in terms of the non-lethal equipment on the National Defence side or the other equipment mentioned earlier.
[English]
With that, maybe my colleague Kati Csaba would have more to add. Thank you.
Kati Csaba, Executive Director, Ukraine Bureau, Global Affairs Canada: I’m Kati Csaba, head of the Ukraine Bureau at Global Affairs.
Our team, as part of our responsibility for coordinating support across Global Affairs and the Government of Canada, does keep a record of the funding that has been going into Ukraine. We are now at over $5.3 billion since the start of the war in February 2022. That covers National Defence, Finance, Global Affairs Canada, as well as other programs, including funding from IRCC that is being spent domestically.
Senator Moncion: That’s helpful.
Senator Galvez: I recently read two reports, one of the OECD, Earth’s Orbits at Risk, and one from the United Nations, Global status of multi-hazard early warning systems.
From the 50 essential climate variables recognized by the World Meteorological Organization to monitor climate change — I’m speaking about migration, floods, fires, everything — 26 can only be observed effectively from space.
Then I learned that the satellite capability and capacity of Canada depend very much on the U.S. capacity. I’m asking you if what I was told is true, namely, that we rent the satellite time of the Americans.
From the money that is allocated to the warning systems or to the U.S. airspace and security and Arctic surveillance, are there funds that go to increase our satellite operations capability, which, of course, influences everything that we do in today’s life? My question is for National Defence.
Ms. Crosby: I can start. Within the NORAD modernization funding announced last summer, there is a portion of $3.8 billion, almost $4 billion, to enhance Radarsat Constellation Mission, but I don’t have the details with me here.
I don’t know, General, if you do.
We would be happy to provide further details on that.
Senator Galvez: Chair, they are going to provide a written answer.
Senator Bovey: I have two questions, and I wonder if you could send me responses from Indigenous Services. You defined grants and contributions. I have worked with grants and contributions over many years, and both are equally accountable. You mentioned that grants didn’t have the level of accountability that contributions have. I wonder if you could give us a written definition. I would like to compare that to the definition I have worked with in Heritage all these decades.
The difference to me is that contributions have different specific timing breakdowns as to when the funds come. I would like to see that in writing, if I may, and make sure that we’re consistent across government.
My other question is about the $33,400,000 to strengthen employment and skills for youth. What is the breakdown between employment and skills for youth? What is the breakdown of that for Indigenous people in the South versus Indigenous people in the North? You could do it in writing. I don’t expect you to have it off the top of your head.
Mr. Geoffrion: We will provide that in writing. My colleague could add context to the program.
Senator Bovey: Thank you.
Ian Kenney, Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Education and Social Development Programs and Partnership Sector, Indigenous Services Canada: With respect to your question about the FNIYES, the First Nations and Inuit Youth Employment Strategy — I think that’s in there — that is funding that goes to a pilot program that is connected with the income assistance program. That is very much suited — it was a pilot project uniquely aimed at moving young people who are on income assistance, giving them extra opportunities, wage subsidies, that sort of thing. That pilot project was fairly successful in the first few years. This money here is just to extend it for another period.
Senator Bovey: Is it both lumped together, the employment and skills?
Mr. Kenney: Correct. Yes.
Senator Bovey: And between South and North?
Mr. Kenney: That is First Nations. It’s all on reserve, so it would be all in the provinces. I’m not aware with respect to Yukon. I will have to check to see if there is an FNIYES component for Yukon.
Senator Bovey: I would be interested in Nunavut and Northwest Territories, too. I’m really concerned about what is happening and not happening with the youth up there.
Mr. Kenney: We’ll provide an answer; however, the First Nations component is just in the South and not in the Northwest Territories or Nunavut.
Senator Bovey: Okay.
[Translation]
Senator Dagenais: My question is for Ms. Crosby. You mentioned programming to engage with Indigenous communities. You said an additional $40 million was put towards that. Can you tell us what specifically the money is being used for?
Ms. Crosby: Thank you for your question.
[English]
Again, this particular funding that we’re requesting in Supplementary Estimates (C) is actually part of a larger announcement that was made in Budget 2022 to support the implementation of UNDRIP, whereby we would be able to extend grants and contribution-type programs to Indigenous communities and individuals who wish to participate in any consultation or engagement we might do.
Again, National Defence is the biggest custodial holder of government. We have many facilities across Canada, and a lot of moving pieces and investments are required there. It’s an obvious area where we will be looking forward to having consultations with many Indigenous groups.
It is a new area for us in terms of supporting them financially, and the money we’re asking for in Supplementary Estimates (C) is to help us set it up. It’s a new grants and contributions program for National Defence. We’re looking forward to learning how it works and implementing it well.
[Translation]
Senator Dagenais: What will it be used for? Will it be put towards clean drinking water, housing investments or support for the Rangers, say?
[English]
Ms. Crosby: It is very focused, as I understand it, senator, on the funding required to enable consultation for people to participate, if you need to fly. It’s very focused on the act of consultation as opposed to a particular topic, like clean water. Yes.
[Translation]
Senator Dagenais: Forty million seems like a lot of money for consultations. Thank you.
The Deputy Chair: That concludes the second round. We did that quite efficiently, so we have a bit of time left.
This being International Women’s Day, I’m going to use my prerogative as deputy chair and invite the women senators to ask questions for a third round.
[English]
Senator Marshall: I can certainly ask another question to Indigenous Services, and that’s the funding for the First Nations Child and Family Services program, the $90 million. That’s something that we see on a recurring basis, something like Jordan’s Principle. Can you explain to us how that funding works? Is that an open-ended program also?
Mr. Geoffrion: It would not be considered an open-ended program. It is somewhat demand-driven; however, the Child and Family Services program does provide services for protection and for prevention of maltreatment of children, all the while trying to keep the family units together.
The claims for that program have indeed been increasing. The $90 million is intended just to meet the demand for this fiscal year.
Senator Marshall: Who gets the funding? Is it the families or is it some service provider?
Mr. Geoffrion: It is normally the agencies on reserve.
Senator Marshall: Is it done through like a child and family services agency, some sort of social agency?
Mr. Geoffrion: That’s right.
[Translation]
Senator Moncion: I’d like to ask Ms. Csaba to provide us with the report on Ukraine, so we can have an up-to-date record of consolidated funding. That’s probably something I’d like to get from the other sectors as well.
[English]
Senator Duncan: I would like to ask a question on the whole‑of‑government approach. There is a Canadian High Arctic Research Station. There is a line item under Crown-Indigenous Relations; you have $40 million for consultation. There is revenue that has been held by the Canadian High Arctic Research Station that could be spent.
Then we have the Arctic Research Foundation — I believe I have that name correct — who are desperately looking for $1.5 million to do research in Inuvik, where you have significant resources as well.
Is there any chance that there could be a whole-of-government approach to supporting the Canadian Arctic Research Foundation? I can send you their request. If we could have the whole of government look at things like that in terms of Arctic security and all of Canada.
Senator Galvez: On the same topic as Senator Marshall, many First Nations communities across Canada are disproportionately affected by the impacts of climate change, such as increased frequency and intensity of wildfires, flooding and food insecurity. Can you provide more details on how the proposed funding for on-reserve emergency response and recovery activities and Jordan’s Principle will support First Nations communities in building resilience to this impact, and how it aligns with Canada’s commitment to reconciliation and climate action?
Mr. Geoffrion: You mentioned a few of our programs and requests through the supplementary estimates. The first item was on the emergency management. I will let my colleague Sylvain Souligny talk about emergency management. You also talked about Jordan’s Principle, which is geared to protection of children.
Senator Galvez: So you know they are protected from what? From everything? Or protected from a specific thing?
Mr. Geoffrion: It is more based on the individual. But on emergency management, I’ll let Sylvain comment.
Mr. Souligny: Thank you, senator, great question. On emergency management more specifically, as we know, there is a provincial responsibility, but in the case of on-reserve emergency management, the Minister of Indigenous Services has accepted that responsibility. The focus of the request here is on response and recovery. First Nations communities more than anyone else are impacted by climate change, and we see floods and fires. So the nature of the request is to address the increase and surge that we have seen in the course of this fiscal year and the response we needed to provide. So that’s returning some of the funding where expenditures took place.
To the nature of your question, the program on emergency management and assistance is not just looking at response and recovery but also looking at how we prevent and have some foresight in terms of events that may occur. There is a portion of the financing, of the funding, that goes to such activities and partnerships — which is a great point that was made by Senator Duncan — with other organizations implicated, which is absolutely important so that we collectively have more information and leverage the data to try to be proactive about addressing and have better mitigation measures when events do, effectively, occur.
Senator Galvez: Thank you.
Senator Bovey: I’m going to turn to Global Affairs this time. In 2019, the Senate Foreign Affairs and International Trade Committee brought down a report on cultural diplomacy at the front stage of Canada’s diplomatic foreign policy. I would like to know, in these estimates, where that is sitting. We know how important culture is for defining Canada’s profile abroad and globally. It is very clear to me which embassies are really working hard with it, and it’s not so clear which ones are not. I wonder where funds for cultural diplomacy are in the supplementary estimates.
Ms. Ouellette: Thank you for your question, Senator Bovey. I will have to get back to you in terms of the details of the cultural diplomacy. Do you mean through the Supplementary Estimates (C) or overall, the total of the Main Estimates?
Senator Bovey: Overall, if you can, because I think it is really important. Having been in London not long ago and having seen the tremendous job that the Canadian High Commission is doing in Trafalgar Square, it is making a difference. When we look at the Afghan War, the work that Canadian artists did abroad with that was very substantive. We forget the expression of our culture at our peril.
[Translation]
The Deputy Chair: Thank you. Did you have a question, Senator Boehm?
Senator Boehm: No, thank you, Mr. Chair.
Senator Dagenais: I’m really surprised by the $40 million that’s being used just for consultation. Whoever lands the contract to carry out those consultations is going to be some happy.
The Deputy Chair: That was actually just a comment.
Senator Smith: Good evening everyone, and thank you for participating.
Senator Gignac: I’d like to thank the witnesses, and thank you for the answer to Senator Moncion’s question. As far as Ukraine is concerned, I think this is the first time we’ve realized how significant our efforts are. After my trip to Brussels two weeks ago, my understanding is that Canada is making quite a significant contribution, as a percentage of GDP, given the size of our economy. We are smaller than the U.S., but $5.3 billion is a sizable amount of money. Thank you for the work you are doing.
The Deputy Chair: Thank you very much, and to wrap up this evening’s productive meeting, Senator Loffreda will ask a question.
[English]
Senator Loffreda: I know that Senator Duncan has a question, and I’ll go after her short question if time allows.
Senator Duncan: Regarding Global Affairs Canada, do you track all the private and small community initiatives to support Ukraine or support other international situations? For example, there is a Ukrainian association in the Yukon who are actively supporting a hospital in Ukraine. Is there somewhere in Canada or in the Government of Canada that tracks all those individual efforts?
Ms. Ouellette: That’s a good question, Senator Duncan. Again, my colleague Kati Csaba will help me. There is some information through our website writ large of what we are doing internationally. But for Ukraine in particular, I’ll let my colleague answer.
Ms. Csaba: Unfortunately, there isn’t one place where we are in a position to collect all of that information. There is so much being done by communities across the country. We hear anecdotally what work is being done. We are in regular contact with organizations like the Ukrainian Canadian Congress, which are conducting a variety of support programs on their own, but it is not possible for us to collect information from across Canada on what is being done through communities.
Senator Duncan: Thank you.
Senator Loffreda: An important question for our businesses and entrepreneurs — the question is for Global Affairs Canada. We all know the importance of investment in Canada. We do pretty well on foreign investment, but on domestic investment we could do much better.
I noticed in the estimates that you are seeking $7 million to fund the CanExport Program. I have a few questions regarding this funding request. First, is the $7 million part of the $35 million over five years announced in Budget 2022? Is it focused exclusively on helping Canadian businesses secure their intellectual property in foreign markets, IP being more and more important? Second, how will this money be used, and what are the eligibility criteria to access these funds? How many businesses or entrepreneurs may benefit from this funding?
Finally, in broader terms, can you provide us with a general description of the role of trade commissioners? I noted in your departmental plan that we have 1,400 trade professionals working in 161 cities around the world and across Canada.
Ms. Ouellette: Thank you, senator, for your question. First of all, yes, the $7 million is part of the $35 million over five years. This is really to support an increase in more diverse trade and investment to raise the standard of living of all Canadians and enable Canadian businesses to grow internationally, to create economic opportunities and help Canadian exporters be successful in their business development efforts and to facilitate and extend and return foreign direct investment.
With the $7 million, the intent is, to your point, to use it for the intellectual property fund. As well, we do have a bit of a backlog in terms of the non-IP application, so we will use anything remaining from the $7 million to deal with the backlog to help as many Canadian businesses as possible this year. Our CanExport budget can be aligned across all the pillars.
In terms of your last question, it is to help a number of small- and medium-sized enterprises to seek new development and export opportunities and markets. In terms of the number of enterprises, I would need to provide you with a written answer. I don’t have the specific number in front of me.
Senator Loffreda: For the eligibility criteria, is there a link that the entrepreneurs can access?
Ms. Ouellette: I’ll have to provide you the link.
[Translation]
The Deputy Chair: We look forward to receiving that in writing. Thank you.
[English]
Senators, we have reached the end of our time.
[Translation]
Thank you to the witnesses for taking the time to appear before the committee today. It’s greatly appreciated. As you saw, the senators were eager to hear about all of your organizations. I would ask that you please get back to the committee with your written answers by the end of the day on March 17. These proceedings were broadcast right across the country, so you are committing to that publicly. Your answers will help us draft our report, so we look forward to receiving them.
I also want to let the senators know that our next meeting is scheduled for Tuesday, March 21, at nine o’clock. We will be starting our study on the 2023-24 Main Estimates.
(The committee adjourned.)