THE STANDING SENATE COMMITTEE ON NATIONAL FINANCE
EVIDENCE
OTTAWA, Tuesday, October 31, 2023
The Standing Senate Committee on National Finance met with videoconference this day at 9 a.m. [ET] to study the Main Estimates for the ffscal year ending March 31, 2024.
Senator Éric Forest (Deputy Chair) in the chair.
[English]
The Deputy Chair: Honourable senators, I wish to welcome all senators as well as those viewers across the country who are watching us on sencanada.ca.
[Translation]
My name is Éric Forest, a senator from the Gulf region of Quebec, and I am the Deputy Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on National Finance.
I’d now like to ask my colleagues to introduce themselves.
[English]
Senator MacAdam: Jane MacAdam, Prince Edward Island.
[Translation]
Senator Galvez: Senator Galvez, Quebec.
Senator Loffreda: Good day and welcome. Senator Tony Loffreda, Quebec.
[English]
Senator Smith: Larry Smith, Montreal, Quebec.
Senator Marshall: Elizabeth Marshall, Newfoundland and Labrador.
[Translation]
Senator Dagenais: Jean-Guy Dagenais, Quebec.
The Deputy Chair: I’d like to recognize the presence of Ms. Anna Basman, member of Parliament from the Bangsamoro region in the Philippines. She is a guest of Senator Galvez.
Welcome, Ms. Basman.
Honourable senators, today we will be continuing our study of the Main Estimates for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2024, which were referred to this committee on March 7, 2023, by the Senate of Canada.
Today we have the pleasure of welcoming officials from the Canada Border Services Agency, Statistics Canada, Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada and Correctional Service Canada.
[English]
Welcome and thank you for accepting our invitation to appear in front of the Standing Senate Committee on National Finance.
[Translation]
Since there are a lot of you, I’ll introduce those who will be making opening statements, and as for the other witnesses, I’ll ask you to kindly introduce yourselves when you’re called upon to answer a question.
Today we have with us Jonathan Moor, Vice-President, Financial and Corporate Management Branch, Canada Border Services Agency; Kathleen Mitchell, Assistant Chief Statistician and Chief Financial Officer, Corporate Strategy and Management, Statistics Canada; Nathalie Manseau, Assistant Deputy Minister and Chief Financial Officer, Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada; and Tony Matson, Assistant Commissioner, Corporate Services, Correctional Service Canada.
For the statements, I’ll be following the order in which I introduced the witnesses.
Mr. Moor, the floor is yours.
[English]
Jonathan Moor, Vice-President, Financial and Corporate Management Branch, Canada Border Services Agency: Good morning, Mr. Deputy Chair and honourable committee members. Thank you for inviting me to join you today. I am Jonathan Moor, Vice-President of the Financial and Corporate Management Branch of the Canada Border Services Agency, or CBSA, and I’m very pleased to present the agency’s 2023‑24 Main Estimates. I am joined today by Bradley Bélanger, Director General, Transformation, Planning and Integration in the Intelligence and Enforcement Branch of the agency.
I would like to start by acknowledging the dedication and professionalism of all of our employees across the CBSA, especially during these challenging times associated with a number of significant global events. As you know, the CBSA has a very diverse mandate, providing the services necessary to help ensure the security and prosperity of Canada and managing the flow of people and goods into and from Canada. Today, these 2023-24 Main Estimates reflect that work.
The CBSA has received a 16% increase over the previous year’s Main Estimates for a total of nearly $2,718 million. Increases in funding are primarily attributed to a number of different areas. There was a $164 million increase for modernizing and sustaining travel and trade at Canada’s borders. The funding will help modernize our business processes and update our aging infrastructure.
We have been provided with $58 million to fund the growth in Canada’s asylum immigration system. This funding will support CBSA’s activities related to border processing and our post‑border activities related to hearings and conducting immigration enforcement activities, including the removal of failed refugee claimants from Canada.
We have received a $41 million increase in funding for the Gordie Howe International Bridge project to put in place sufficient resources and equipment to be ready for the opening of a new port of entry.
We have been provided with $25 million to assist in the resettlement efforts associated with the crisis in Afghanistan.
Finally, $22 million has been provided for the Land Border Crossing Project, including the costs associated with the planning and rebuild of the Lacolle port of entry in Quebec. I am pleased to say that two of these ports of entry have already been rebuilt — one at Fraser in British Columbia and the other at Bloomfield in New Brunswick.
Budget 2023 has directed federal departments and agencies to reduce spending on professional services and travel by roughly 15% of our planned discretionary spending this year and phase in a 3% general reduction in total spending. This will equate to a $116 million annual budget reduction by 2026-27. The agency has already started this work, and it has presented a range of options to the minister for consideration.
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Chair and members of the committee, and I am happy to answer your questions about these estimates.
[Translation]
The Deputy Chair: Thank you very much.
Let’s now move on to Ms. Kathleen Mitchell.
Ms. Mitchell, the floor is yours.
[English]
Kathleen Mitchell, Assistant Chief Statistician and Chief Financial Officer, Corporate Strategy and Management, Statistics Canada: Mr. Deputy Chair, honourable senators and officials, thank you for the invitation to discuss the 2023‑24 Main Estimates for Statistics Canada.
I would like to begin by acknowledging that I am delivering these remarks from the unceded traditional territory of the Algonquin Anishinaabeg peoples. My name is Kathleen Mitchell, and I am the Assistant Chief Statistician and Chief Financial Officer of Corporate Strategy and Management at Statistics Canada.
[Translation]
I’m pleased to be here today to present an overview of the authorities requested in the Main Estimates and answer your questions.
Statistics Canada remains absolutely focused on supporting evidenced-based decision-making by providing impactful, comprehensive and timely data to Canadians.
[English]
To fulfill that mandate, we will continue working with new and existing partners to integrate sources of high-quality data and deliver the best information and insights available while strengthening diversity and inclusion among our employees.
As a data stewardship leader in the federal public service, we also ensure that all departments have the data assets required to better serve all Canadians. To continue this important work, our agency has requested $532.1 million in total authorities in the Main Estimates. This is $44.6 million less than in 2022-23, a decrease that is primarily due to the cyclical nature of the census program — with the next census happening in 2026.
With the funding requested, Statistics Canada will continue to release detailed data to address emerging socioeconomic and environmental concerns while remaining committed to simplifying how Canadians access the insights we produce. We will also explore modern methods, tools and strategies to lead the way in acquiring, processing, integrating and analyzing data.
What follows are the most notable decreases to Statistics Canada’s authorities. There will be a decrease of $46.4 million in funding for the 2021 Census of Population program as it begins to wind down. The 2023 funding will be used to complete the dissemination of remaining data products and to conduct data quality studies.
We will see a decrease of $3.9 million in funding for the 2021 Census of Agriculture program, which has completed the analysis and dissemination of key products.
A decrease of $3.4 million for Budget 2021 initiatives, such as supporting access to sexual and reproductive health care information and services, better data for better outcomes and strengthening long-term care and supportive care.
This is offset by an increase of $9.1 million for new initiatives included in Budget 2022, such as statistical survey operations modernization, building a world-class intellectual property regime and dental care for Canadians.
At the time of the Main Estimates, funding for the 2026 Census had not yet been approved, which amplifies the decrease in overall authorities. The 2026 Census funding was approved in 2023-24, the first year of funding for the cycle.
Of the $532.1 million requested through the Main Estimates, 86% is voted operating budget that requires approval by Parliament. The remaining 14% represents statutory forecasts to cover public servant benefit plans.
Of the $457.2 million voted operating budget, 88.1% covers the salary cost of 4,836 full-time equivalent employees while the remaining 11.9% covers non-salary expenses such as IT and professional services.
[Translation]
Additionally, Statistics Canada pays the salary of 1,189 full‑time equivalent employees with revenue generated by vote‑netted cost recovery programs. In recent years, cost recovery revenues have contributed between $120 million to $154 million annually to the agency’s total resources, a large portion of which come from federal departments to fund specific statistical projects.
In closing, I would like to reaffirm Statistics Canada’s commitment to the sound stewardship of the funds that have been entrusted to us while we continue to meet our nation’s evolving data needs.
[English]
Mr. Chair, I would like to thank the committee for giving me an opportunity to meet with you today. I will be pleased to answer any questions you may have. Thank you.
The Deputy Chair: Thank you very much.
Nathalie Manseau, Assistant Deputy Minister and Chief Financial Officer, Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada: Thank you for inviting us to discuss the Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada’s 2023-24 Main Estimates.
I want to begin by recognizing that we are meeting on the traditional and unceded territories of the Algonquin Anishinaabeg peoples.
[Translation]
It’s a pleasure to be here before your committee today. I’m joined by one of my colleagues at IRCC, Soyoung Park, Assistant Deputy Minister, Asylum and Refugee Resettlement.
I’d like to begin by stating that IRCC plans to continue its efforts to attract skilled workers by prioritizing family reunification and offering shelter to the world’s most vulnerable.
[English]
In support of these commitments, Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada, or IRCC, is appearing today to discuss its 2023-24 Main Estimates totalling $4.5 billion. This represents a net increase of $581 million compared to last year’s Main Estimates. The 2023-24 Main Estimates are comprised of the following key items.
IRCC has sought $596 million for the resettlement of Afghan refugees. We will continue working with our partners and use all other means available to secure safe passage for those aiming to leave Afghanistan and travel to Canada. As announced yesterday, Canada met its commitment to resettle at least 40,000 Afghan nationals by the end of 2023.
IRCC has sought $367 million to continue providing asylum seekers with temporary accommodation and support services while they await transfer to the provincial shelter system or secure private accommodations. There’s a real need for temporary housing as certain provinces don’t have the capacity to accommodate the number of asylum claimants.
To ensure Canada has the workers it needs to grow its economy and address its labour shortage, the Immigration Levels Plan aims to continue welcoming an increased number of newcomers in order to continue our recovery from the pandemic. IRCC increased its funding by $171 million for the implementation of the Multi-Year Immigration Levels Plan, bringing the total investment to $945 million in fiscal year 2023-24.
IRCC has sought $169 million for the immigration approach in response to the situation in Ukraine. This provides Ukrainian nationals and their families with one-time, temporary financial support and supports Ukrainian nationals as they incur spending related to temporary accommodations.
The government is building a modern immigration system that will position Canada to compete on the global stage for the world’s best talent. To proceed, IRCC has sought $157 million for the digital platform modernization which will respond quickly to changing priorities, manage increasing application volumes and improve the use of data to improve immigration programs.
IRCC has sought $726 million for the Canada-Quebec Accord on immigration. This is for the annual grant to Quebec to support settlement and integration services in the province of Quebec under the Canada-Quebec Accord.
[Translation]
The Safe Third Country Agreement (or STCA) is an important tool for both Canada and the U.S., and reflects the principle that asylum seekers should be making their claim in the first safe country they arrive in. This year, the STCA was expanded to apply to the entire border, including internal waterways.
The agreement now applies to anyone entering Canada from the U.S. to claim asylum, regardless of where they entered our country. Unless they meet an exception, such as having family in Canada, they are returned to the U.S. to pursue an asylum claim there. The reverse is also true of claimants that land here first and attempt to enter the U.S.
[English]
IRCC has sought $18 million to develop regulatory and operational requirements to bring into force the additional protocol to the Safe Third Country Agreement and ensure its application along the border and processing of any claims.
Lastly, we are continuing to set a high bar for processing applications. We are already meeting our service standards for new applicants for programs like student visas, citizenship, family reunification outside Quebec and federal high-skilled workers. To make further improvements, IRCC has sought $23 million in funding for client support services to respond to a growing volume of inquiries and invest in the technology and tools required to support the people using their services.
This is a brief summary of the key investments we have sought in the 2023-24 Main Estimates. We will be happy to take your questions. Thank you.
The Deputy Chair: Thank you very much.
Tony Matson, Assistant Commissioner, Corporate Services, Correctional Service Canada: Mr. Chair, members of this committee, I thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today to speak to the Correctional Service Canada’s Main Estimates for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2024.
[Translation]
I’m happy to be joined today by France Gratton, Assistant Commissioner, Correctional Operations and Programs, and Jay Pyke, who is Acting Senior Deputy Commissioner at CSC.
[English]
I have kept my opening remarks brief. This will provide committee members with additional time to ask questions about the numbers I am presenting today.
Contained within these Main Estimates tabled in Parliament back on February 17, 2023, was a request for total funding for Correctional Service Canada, or CSC, amounting to $3.1 billion. Compared with the 2022-23 Main Estimates, this was an increase of $2.3 million or 0.1%. The net increase of $2.3 million represents a $15.2 million increase in operating expenditures, a decrease of $16.2 million in capital expenditures and a net increase of $3.3 million in statutory expenditures.
In terms of a snapshot at the end of the fiscal year 2023, CSC was responsible for over 21,000 offenders, and we employ a similar number of employees from a vast number of disciplines.
The funding sought in these Main Estimates works to ensure our continued operations and to support our mandate. CSC’s operations work to keep our institutions and communities safe while also promoting the safe rehabilitation of eligible offenders. Contained within the Main Estimates was a $14.2 million increase related to the former Bill C-83. You may recall that this was legislation that was passed and which had the purpose, among other things, of eliminating administrative segregation and creating Structured Intervention Units. This $14.2 million is an increase for mental health services, which has long been a priority for CSC.
In 2019, funding associated with Bill C-83 was provided with the significant ongoing investment of $74 million annually. These investments built on funding of nearly $80 million for improved mental health services for inmates in Budget 2017 and Budget 2018.
The funding provides additional professional health services resources, including psychiatric services to support integrated health care and the early assessment and diagnosis of mental illness.
These enhancements direct inmates with mental health needs to the right pathway of care so that they can receive the appropriate and timely care that they need. The funding contained within these Main Estimates will continue this essential work.
Increases of $9.8 million in support measures related to COVID-19 were also received. This was strictly a one-time investment to provide correctional employees with payments for the overtime they incurred related to the pandemic.
[Translation]
I want to take a moment to acknowledge the considerable efforts of our correctional employees, who kept working all through this difficult period to ensure the safety of our communities and our institutions.
[English]
Also of note is an $11.8 million increase in funding that was sought related to changes in prices and volumes of goods that we procure each year.
Specifically in our quasi-stat envelope, the increase was an adjustment for offender population numbers, along with price increases, which include inflation, to provide statutory services.
[Translation]
This concludes my opening remarks, Mr. Deputy Chair, and it will be my pleasure to talk about these investments further with my colleagues.
[English]
The Deputy Chair: Thank you very much for your statement. Now we will proceed to questions. I would like to tell senators that you will have a maximum of five minutes each for the first round and a maximum of three minutes for the second round.
[Translation]
I would ask you to be succinct in your questions and your answers. The clerk will let me know when your time is up.
[English]
Senator Marshall: I’m going to start with Mr. Moor from Canada Border Services Agency. Most of my questions are general, which I’m hoping will help me with the other organizations here today.
Can you tell us — professional services — my information says that of your Main Estimates, $551 million is for professional services, which is about 20% of your budget. Is that the correct amount that I’m working with?
Mr. Moor: That is the correct amount this year, $551 million, which represents about 20% of our total Main Estimates. However, it is worth noting that more than half of that money is for other government departments. In particular, our largest supplier is the Canada Revenue Agency, or CRA, who provides all of our IT systems, and also we have significant contracts with Public Services and Procurement Canada, or PSPC, and Shared Services Canada, or SSC. So, the net amount of that is about 10%, which is actually external contracts, which is made up of largely informatic services.
Senator Marshall: Is that information publicly available because all I have is the $551 million? Is that something that I can find somewhere in the public accounts?
Mr. Moor: Yes, certainly. The public accounts have just been published, and they include details of all of the significant suppliers to the Canada Border Services Agency — anyone above $100,000. That would detail exactly who that money is going to.
Senator Marshall: That’s the past, but for the $551 million it’s not available yet.
Mr. Moor: It’s not available at the moment. It will be available when the public accounts are published.
Senator Marshall: Is there any money in there for the ArriveCAN app?
Mr. Moor: We stopped spending money on the public health version of the ArriveCAN app on March 31 of this year. We have now moved on to using ArriveCAN as an advanced declaration app. Over 300,000 travellers every month use ArriveCAN, which speeds up the process of the primary inspection kiosk. I used it myself a couple of days ago, and it’s about a third quicker to use it.
Senator Marshall: How much is in there for the ArriveCAN app for that part?
Mr. Moor: There’s nothing in the ArriveCAN app for the public health version, but we have recorded the amount of money for the advanced declaration.
Senator Marshall: How much?
Mr. Moor: My recollection is that it’s just about $1 million at the moment, but we believe it’s forecasted to be about $3 million in total this year.
Senator Marshall: Okay. So, I know in the budget document, the government indicated that they were going to save $7 billion by reducing spending on consulting and professional services over the next five years, and there’s half a billion dollars in there this year. What portion of that would be yours?
Mr. Moor: There will be $116 million by 2026-27. This year, it’s around about $14 million in professional services and travel, and next year it will be about $66 million.
Senator Marshall: Okay, that’s great. Thanks.
What about the funding? Do you have members who were in the unions whose collective agreement was finalized there several months ago?
Mr. Moor: We have a number of different collective agreements, some of which have been funded, particularly the Program and Administrative Services, or PA, collective agreements. The most significant number of people is in the Customs and Immigration Union, or CIU, which is the immigration union. That has not yet been finalized.
Senator Marshall: When will we see that? I’m expecting it in Supplementary Estimates (B) or Supplementary Estimates (C). Can you tell me when you would be getting the funding for that? Are you starting to pay out based on the higher rates?
Mr. Moor: My understanding is negotiations are still going on with the Treasury Board Secretariat. We are not yet aware of when those negotiations will be agreed on. I think my best estimate at the moment is that they will be agreed on in the next financial year.
Senator Marshall: Okay, but for the Public Service Alliance of Canada, or PSAC, agreement, you don’t have any staff who are members?
Mr. Moor: Yes, we do have that, and we will be receiving our money at different times. We have already received some of our money in the Main Estimates. We’ll also be receiving money in the Supplementary Estimates (B) and potentially in the Supplementary Estimates (C).
Senator Marshall: In Main Estimates, you received money for a collective agreement that had not been finalized, so how much is in there?
Mr. Moor: I’d have to come back to you on the details surrounding that. It depends on which classification we are talking about. So the finance classification was agreed on quite early. Maybe some of my colleagues can help me to determine exactly when that was agreed on. We would have received the money after that was agreed on.
Senator Marshall: Okay, I would really like to know if you can provide to the clerk the amount of money that’s in there for the agreements that were recently reached and how much was in your Main Estimates because I had understood from the Treasury Board that there wasn’t any money provided in Main Estimates because the Main Estimates came out in March — I think March 1.
Is there any money in your budget for the signing bonus? Because PSAC negotiated a signing bonus.
Mr. Moor: I’ll have to come back to you again on that one, with regard to exactly what money —
Senator Marshall: Okay, if you can provide that information to the clerk, that would be great. Thanks.
My last question for you is that when the Auditor General released her report a couple of weeks ago, she was very critical of government’s oversight of the money spent on IT services, and I noticed that — and I don’t know if this figure is right — there’s $184 million for your department. What is the $184 million for? My subsequent question is: She was talking about critical systems; do you have any of those? I think there are thousands of systems, but could you tell us what your critical systems are, and what the $184 million is for?
Mr. Moor: We received $164 million of funding in Budget 2021. In Budget 2021, we received over $800 million of funding for replacing some of our core critical systems. We have over 180 different systems operating at the border. Many of those are the systems which actually allow you for immigration purposes but also for the declaration of goods and taxes, so the most significant system we are currently replacing is CBSA Assessment and Revenue Management, or CARM, which is the agency’s revenue management system. That system is due to go live next year.
Senator Marshall: Okay, and how much of the $184 million is for that system or can you give me any cost figures on that system?
Mr. Moor: I’ll come back to you on the actual details on that.
Senator Marshall: Yes, I’d like to have an idea as to the magnitude.
Senator Smith: Thank you for being with us today. I would like to talk to Ms. Manseau with a question on immigration. One of your organization’s mandates is to focus on economic immigration, particularly in the context of supply shortages of health care workers. You’re enhancing some of the programs, which includes the Express Entry system. Getting economic immigrants here, particularly internationally trained health care workers, is half the battle. Getting these professionals integrated into our health care system is the other half of the battle. We know standards for health care professionals differ from province to province.
In what specific ways do your organization help to integrate internationally trained health care professionals into various provincial and territorial health sectors?
Ms. Manseau: Thank you for the question. I can speak to the investments that we’ve made through the Main Estimates for our 2022-24 Immigration Levels Plan. The 2022-24 plan has funding of $945 million in the current Main Estimates, which is an increase of $172 million. This allows us to have immigration levels of 447,000 admissions in 2023 and 451,000 in 2024.
Funding was approved for 2023-25 recently, and funding will flow through Supplementary Estimates (C). Our 2024‑26 Immigration Levels Plan will be tabled on November 1. Unfortunately, the assistant deputy minister responsible for immigration is not with us today. I am happy to take your questions back and provide you with more information.
Senator Smith: If you could provide us with some written documentation, that would be great.
One of the questions we had here was how are you able to measure the success — maybe this could be another question to take back to the operations people — of your work in terms of filling labour gaps generally in the health care systems across Canada? I mention health care because it is a pretty important topic, especially with immigrants coming into our country. We have doctors and nurses who end up having to go back to menial jobs or back to school, and then they can possibly be accepted into our systems. I was just wondering if you could maybe take that question back with you in terms of filling the labour gaps in the health care systems across our country.
Maybe I could go back to Mr. Moor with the Canada Border Services Agency. Following up on Senator Marshall, the Auditor General found that CBSA was not managing removal cases. That is, the agency was not removing inadmissible foreign nationals in a timely manner and that the number of enforceable cases grew to almost 50,000.
How have you improved your removal processes for inadmissible individuals since the audit was published?
Mr. Moor: Under the act, we are required to remove individuals who have been tasked by the Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada, or IRB, to remove them. Last year, in 2022-23, we removed 10,156 individuals. This year so far, we have removed 6,982 individuals. However, we only remove individuals who have passed all of the different appeals processes. This is very important for us. We respond to the IRB. When somebody is ready for removal, we will then proceed on that basis. But there are lots of cases where people will go to different appeals mechanisms, and they must all be exhausted before we go to removal. We do not take removals lightly.
Senator Smith: Would you be able to answer the improvement question I had asked? Is that something you want to take back with you? I want to understand how your systems have improved over time because, obviously, it is a huge issue for you and an important one.
Mr. Moor: I’m very happy to go back on this, unless my colleague Brad Bélanger wants to come in here as well. We have seen increases in the number of approvals following the COVID crisis, but we recognize there is now a significant backlog. That’s not entirely related to our areas of work. It can also be related to the IRB’s areas of work.
Senator Smith: Could you give me an update on the numbers in terms of how many enforceable cases remain outstanding as of today?
Mr. Moor: I’m very happy to come back with information on those numbers.
Senator Smith: Okay. I guess one of the questions you could also come back with is how do you track individuals who are considered inadmissible in Canada? They seem to drift through the system. They are somewhere, but how do you get these people to continue the cleanup in terms of that particular issue? If you could get back to us on that one, that would be great.
Mr. Moor: I’m happy to come back to you on the detail, but we have been very successful recently about deleting or removing warrants, identifying that the individual has either left the country or the individual is no longer resident in the country. We will come back to you with information on that.
Senator Smith: That would be most appreciated.
Senator Galvez: I thank the witnesses for their presence today and their answers to our questions.
My first set of questions are around the refugees and immigrants coming due to climate change. In particular, I want to note that there are several studies saying that the influx of people coming from Central America and walking up to our borders is increasing.
My first question is for Statistics Canada about the numbers, the data sets and if this is something that we will see in the environmental data that you will release, as you mentioned.
Then to Nathalie Manseau from IRCC, what are your plans for these people who are arriving? You talked about attracting the best workers, but sometimes these people are farmers. Do you have different criteria or different quotas?
Finally, to Mr. Moor, on the logistics and the temporary housing, how do we host these people?
Ms. Mitchell: Thank you for your question. In terms of the environment, Statistics Canada was recently approved for the Census of Environment. This provided $25.6 million over five years, starting in 2021-22 with $5.8 million ongoing. This is the first time Statistics Canada will have an ecosystem of the environment of Canada. While we have information available on the economy and society, we have less information on the environment, so it was a priority for Statistics Canada to seek this program.
In terms of your question on the individuals who are coming to Canada, I don’t have that response with me today, but I’d be happy to return information in that regard. Thank you.
Senator Galvez: Thank you. Ms. Manseau?
Ms. Manseau: As mentioned earlier, the IRCC received funding in the Main Estimates to a level of $945 million to support immigration. IRCC also invests in the asylum system through temporary accommodation and support services for an amount of $367 million, and also through the Interim Housing Assistance Program and the Interim Federal Health Program. We will be happy to get back to you on how this assists the different types of workers.
Senator Galvez: Yes, but do you have any numbers in terms of how many who are seeking asylum are coming because they are escaping from drastic, penalizing environmental conditions in their countries?
Ms. Manseau: I don’t have those numbers with me, but we will be happy to provide them.
Mr. Moor: If I could pick up on some of your questions, in 2021, the border was closed until October, so in total IRCC and CBSA processed 25,100 asylum claims. I don’t have information on what the source of those claims were.
In 2022, between the two organizations, we actually processed 92,000 claims. This year, to date, we have already processed 110,000 claims. What we’ve seen in the last year is a significant reduction between the borders as a result of the Safe Third Country Agreement, but we are now seeing an increase in the number of claims being received at airports in particular. This year, so far, we have received 15,900 between the borders and 94,800 at airports or inland.
It is worth pointing out that CBSA’s role on the seat of an asylum claim is to identify admissibility into Canada, and the first step in that is to identify the identity of the individual concerned. Once we’ve done the initial processing, we pass them on to IRCC who is responsible for housing those individuals.
For CBSA, we would only house an individual maybe overnight at one of our regional processing centres until they are processed, their identity is checked and then they are handed over to IRCC.
Senator Galvez: When people arrive and you ask questions, can you tell me the main reasons they are asking for asylum?
Mr. Moor: We can come back to you and tell you if there are statistics available on the reason they are claiming asylum. I don’t have those statistics at the moment.
Senator Galvez: That will be important. I remember when I immigrated here and would talk to immigration and refugees, the main reason was terrorism or narco trafficking in the Latin American countries, for example. But recently when I talk to the refugees, they are saying that they are walking from Central America because they can no longer work there because of land degradation and climate change-related situations. I think we need to know what these reasons and factors are and if that qualifies them to be admissible. Thank you.
Senator Loffreda: My question is for CBSA. If you can provide further commentary on the following, it would be welcome. With the responsibility of protecting our borders, CBSA plays a big role in maintaining and protecting national security. The department has set a goal of removing 80% of inadmissible foreign nationals from Canada for both high‑priority individuals and those with no known impediments.
In 2021-22, the department removed 83% of high-priority individuals but only 54% of those with no known impediments. Border enforcement is to have an operating budget of nearly half a billion dollars in the 2023-24 Main Estimates. With many of these individuals being inadmissible on account of criminality, war crimes and other reasons, why are we not achieving all of our targets? Why are our targets only 80%? Should we not look to remove closer to 100% of these individuals?
Mr. Moor: Thank you for the question. You are correct in saying that in 2021-22, we did remove 7,520.
We have three types of removals. The first type is serious inadmissibility, in particular serious criminals, terrorists or other reasons. We removed 562 of those in 2021-22 and 630 of those in 2022-23. To date, in 2023-24, we have removed 331 of those individuals.
The second category included priority one, which is irregular migrants or failed claimants. Last year, in 2022-23, we removed 623, and this year we have removed 768. And then have priority two, which is regular failed refugee claimants, and priority three, which is other.
I can’t give you the percentages. Our aim, as I’ve said before, is to remove all individuals who are ready or without impediments. However, impediments can be very difficult to actually achieve, especially in countries where it is difficult to get documentation. We would have to come back to you in terms of percentage and our relative success in terms of how we managed to do against our inventory, but we do put all our efforts into removing individuals who are ready for removal and have no known impediment.
Senator Loffreda: Why the target of 80% as opposed to 100%?
Mr. Moor: Because the reality is that it is difficult to remove individuals in all cases. The targets of 100% are rarely unachievable. What we’ve tried to do is increase our targets year over year, as we start delivering. As I’ve said before, we have a significant backlog now and we need to be working through that.
Senator Loffreda: Thank you for that. I have a second question.
It is very important that those waiting for release decisions receive their decisions in a timely manner. Of all eligible release decisions, only 69% were done within the department’s established time frames. This is well short of the 95% goal that you set to be achieved in March 2024.
As indicated in the 2023-24 Main Estimates, the budget for border management is expected to cost Canadians more than $1.7 billion, consuming most of the department’s financial resources. What does the department need to do to achieve this objective? With time running out to achieve the department’s target, what are the next steps needed to improve the speed of service?
Mr. Moor: We are constantly looking at ways to work with the IRB in particular, who are responsible for deciding whether somebody is accepted or whether somebody is to be removed.
I think you may also be referring to ministerial relief which is decided by the minister themselves. I’m happy to come back to you with details around the percentages for each of those areas. As I said before, our job is to remove people who are completely ready to be removed once all the different avenues or appeals are processed.
Senator Loffreda: Since the expansion of the Safe Third Country Agreement, how has the pattern of asylum seekers changed?
Mr. Moor: It has changed significantly. At Roxham Road, we have seen a very significant reduction in the number of people crossing. We do still see people at land border crossings because there are some exemptions. People are exempt from the Safe Third Country Agreement if they are coming from America or if they have an anchor relative. We are still seeing some land refugee claimants at the land border, but what we’ve seen recently is massive increases at the ports of entry in the airports. We are seeing a lot of claims coming from Mexico in particular.
Senator Loffreda: Have you observed increased smuggling activities?
Mr. Moor: Smuggling activities are more of an issue for the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, or RCMP. We do not control between the borders. We control at the border. We are unlikely to see smuggling activity at the border. It is more likely to happen between the borders, and that’s their responsibility.
Senator Loffreda: Second round, please.
Senator MacAdam: Thank you to the witnesses. My question is to IRCC, and it’s in regards to a recent report that was tabled by the Office of the Auditor General on processing applications for permanent residents. The report conclusion stated that the processing of wait times improved in 2022 but was still far from meeting its service standards for prompt processing.
For eight different types of applications, the percentage of applications processed within the service standard ranged from 3% to 71%, and I believe the service standard is 80%. Please correct me if I’m wrong. Anyway, the report also stated that service standards have not been reviewed or updated since 2019, even though back then the department recognized that some needed to be reviewed.
I have a few questions around this. I know it’s a recent report, but I’m wondering what is your plan to improve processing times? Have you started to develop an action plan to address the issues raised around the processing times? As well, when are you planning to re-examine the service standards? How much is in the budget to improve processing times? How many years do you anticipate this additional funding — I am assuming there is additional funding? How many years would this funding be needed? Will you be attending the Standing Committee on Public Accounts to discuss this report?
There are a number of questions there — all related to processing times, really.
Ms. Manseau: IRCC is aware of the concerns outlined in the audit report. Over the last few years, we’ve been diligently addressing these issues as part of our commitment to improve client service and build a stronger immigration system.
Since the audit was conducted, IRCC has continued to reduce its backlog by digitizing applications, hiring and training new staff and harnessing automation technologies to increase processing capacity and efficiency. In August 2023, IRCC also began publishing monthly data to inform the public about ongoing efforts to reduce application backlogs. Many lines of business are back or close to being back to service standards.
We are also expanding the Permanent Residence Portal to private refugee sponsor groups in early November and to some of our government-assisted refugee referral partners in early December. The portal is a secure and convenient way for sponsors and referral partners to submit their applications. This planned expansion addresses the recommendation by the Office of the Auditor General for IRCC to prioritize online application portals.
The goal of IRCC is to process at least 80% of new applications within service standards, accounting for expected delays in complex cases. As of September 2023, 62% of all the applications in our inventory were processed within service standards, and that’s an improvement of 50% since the end of January. There are a number of investments made through the Main Estimates to improve services to clients. We have $23 million to improve client access at the Client Support Centre via telephone, eliminate email inventory and reduce email response time. We have received 3.4 million inquiries by phone or email between January and September — that’s a 14% increase.
We are also investing in Digital Platform Modernization. There is an investment of $157 million in the 2023-24 Main Estimates to fund a more nimble, flexible and responsible immigration system to support growing volumes and reduce application processing time.
Senator MacAdam: Thank you.
[Translation]
Senator Dagenais: My questions are for Mr. Moor.
The Montreal airport, whose passenger services are rather mediocre these days, has recently blamed the delays passengers experience on arrival on the services you offer. Specifically, these delays are being blamed on the fact that asylum seekers are now being flown in rather than using Roxham Road. We’re told that you weren’t ready for this influx of passengers.
I don’t know if you’ve found a solution to this chaotic situation, which got a lot of media attention. Was this budgeted for? Is more money needed than is currently included in the budget?
How much will this relocation of asylum seekers cost your services?
Mr. Moor: Thank you for your questions.
[English]
Just to explain, there are two potential delays at Montreal airport at the moment. One is around the arrivals. I would encourage everyone to use the ArriveCAN application to get processed through the system quicker. As I said before, if you have loaded your advance declaration onto ArriveCAN, you can pass through the primary inspections kiosks up to 60% quicker than without having done that processing.
We do find at the airport that there are variances in terms of arrivals of different aircraft. We are working with the airport to see if we can flatten out some of those arrivals patterns so we don’t have too many people arriving immediately.
The second issue we have at the moment is at the immigration secondary processing, which is affected significantly at the moment by the number of claims of asylum seekers at secondary processing. We are working with the airport to identify areas in which we can hold those people while they are waiting for processing, but there is a process to be undertaken. We are looking at ways to manage our staff accordingly to ensure that delays are reduced and managed throughout the day.
[Translation]
Senator Dagenais: You mentioned supplementary funds allocated to improve the efficiency of the services you offer incoming new immigrants and asylum seekers. To get a sense of the timeline, were these new funds allocated to you before the increase of new immigrants was announced? Is it after the border crossing was overflowing that the government decided, after the fact, that your efficiency needed to be improved?
[English]
Mr. Moor: We did receive additional funding for asylum seekers. We are now funded to a baseline of 50,000 asylum seekers every year. As I said previously, 92,000 individuals claimed asylum last year across the CBSA and IRCC. It is a matter for ministers to decide whether our funding is suitable or not.
[Translation]
Senator Dagenais: As we know, Canada is open to welcoming new immigrants. I’d like to know how much this has cost your border services and how much it will cost them in the future. Given that these newcomers wanting to make their home in Canada can’t be handled with machines, how many more officers are you planning on hiring to improve service efficiency?
[English]
Mr. Moor: In the Main Estimates, we have claimed $1,765 million for border management. Border management covers everyone who is arriving in the country, including the initial processing of refugee claimants. Border enforcement in the Main Estimates is $446 million. Those numbers have increased significantly over the last few years, but they cover three different areas of immigration. They cover temporary resident visas, which is for students and other visitors to the country. They cover permanent residents. My colleague Ms. Manseau referred to the multi-year levels — that’s for permanent residents. They have increased, and they cover asylum.
As I said before, we are funded for 50,000 asylum seekers, but at the moment, we are seeing considerably more than that. It is a matter for ministers to decide what the right amount of funding required for the agency is.
[Translation]
Senator Dagenais: I’d like to return the issue of the Montreal airport. Clearly, you can’t be held responsible for all the airport’s problems, but you mentioned the arrival of jumbo jets. Is there a way to harmonize your service with the arrival of these jumbo jets?
As an example, on Wednesday, around 4 p.m., three aircraft carrying 300 passengers are slated for arrival, and it’s announced that it will take an hour to cross the border. I understand that the Montreal airport’s facilities are completely outdated, but can you harmonize border services with the arrival of these jumbo jets?
People can have this information on their tablets. I suppose the Montreal airport and the Border Services Agency are able to harmonize the arrival of these aircraft, especially when 900 people arrive all at once.
[English]
Mr. Moor: This is a regular conversation we have with the airport authorities. We do operate the Montreal airport 24-7, so we need to ensure that we have a sufficient number of resources throughout the day. We try to adapt that, depending on when the peaks and troughs of airline arrivals are coming in. However, this is very difficult. We don’t have a workforce we can switch on and off depending on the hour at which planes arrive.
Generally speaking, individuals do an eight-hour shift. Across the 24-7, we will be having three shifts of eight hours at one time. It’s constant pressure, which we’re working with the airport on to see if we can manage this more effectively.
Senator Pate: Thank you to the witnesses for appearing. My first questions are for Correctional Service Canada, and then I’ll have some for CBSA and IRCC.
During your presentation, Mr. Matson, you talked about the number that rehabilitation services are provided for, those who are eligible. I’m curious as to who would not be eligible and what the legislative and policy basis for such a determination would be.
In addition, when I was looking at the budgetary allocations, and during your presentation, you mentioned that from Budget 2017 onward, allocations were made as a result of Bill C-83. I’m curious, of all the allocations, whether all have been spent? If not, what hasn’t been spent and what’s the rationale? What have the results been of those expenditures? What are the security levels of each individual who previously would have been kept in a form of segregation? How many releases have happened from every security level? Certainly, the last few times I’ve been in prisons, a number of people were being released directly from maximum security to the street. That’s cause for concern.
How many community beds have been funded? How many Exchange of Service Agreement beds for mental health, whether under section 29 or alternatively through other transfers, have been created? What is the number of people who are in — other than Structured Intervention Units — separation units? Certainly, our visits to the institutions have shown there are temporary detention, medical observation, voluntary limited association ranges, stepdown units. The range of new language is quite diverse.
Then my final questions for this round, you mentioned in the 2024 Correctional Service of Canada Main Estimates a payment of $900,000 in grants to the Indigenous Offender Reintegration Contribution Program. I note that the Correctional Investigator has commented that keeping folks in maximum security is costing approximately $600,000 per year. I’m curious what that $900,000 is funding. How many individuals, how many beds and how many communities are being supported? What are the plans in terms of the efforts to try and reduce the numbers? As part of that, how many prisons disaggregated by gender and by race are at minimum, medium and maximum security, as well as receiving conditional release?
If you’re not able to get to all of that, I’d be happy to have you submit that to the committee in writing.
Mr. Matson: Thank you for that. That’s quite a comprehensive list. We will definitely endeavour to get you the information. I’ve taken note of that. We’ll certainly get back to you as fast as possible.
In terms of some of the answers, such as who is eligible for rehabilitation, we have very stringent processes for determining those inmates. I believe the vast majority are probably eligible for rehabilitation, and we make every effort to do so.
In terms of the funding that we received in 2017-18, I can say that all of that funding was spent. We can get you specific numbers on what was allocated and what it was spent on. That can be forthcoming. The same with the results and at what security levels were affected, we can provide all of that information subsequently. I don’t have it here today.
Senator Pate: Okay. Just back to my initial question, the Corrections and Conditional Release Act is pretty clear that everybody is supposed to have access to rehabilitative services. If there is a policy directive that differentiates that, I think it would be vitally important that we know about it because it certainly then flies in the face of the legislative requirement that currently exists, not to mention the Charter requirements.
I’m curious as to where the service is on the recommendations that have been made repeatedly going back to 1990 on the development of an alternate classification system to recognize the race, gender and ability bias that has been pointed out by the Task Force on Federally Sentenced Women, the Canadian Human Rights Commission, Dr. Moira Law when she was hired by CSC to develop a new strategy and repeatedly by the Correctional Investigator. As part of that description, that would be extremely helpful. How many Indigenous communities have been contracted to support the release of how many Indigenous people pursuant to sections 81 and 84?
For CBSA and IRCC, I noticed one of the policy changes that has been made reflects a push to look at the number of people who were in care of the state and in the child welfare system and then are facing removal orders. Certainly there’s been a push because, of course, if someone is in the care of the state, the parent is the state. The parent, the state, is responsible for ensuring that people have their immigration status.
I’m curious as to how many of those formerly in care without citizenship status are at risk of removal, how many have been removed pursuant to this policy and how many would benefit from the new policy measure being proposed.
I’m also interested in how much money is currently being spent annually to pursue removal of those who were formerly children in care. I’m thinking, for example, about the protracted legal cases and lengthy court processes that were undertaken by departments when it came to people such as Abdoul Abdi and many other examples, where a great deal of resources were spent to try and deport people who other arms of the government had a responsibility to parent and didn’t get citizenship status. If we could have a breakdown of those, that would be great. Thank you.
Mr. Moor: I’d be very happy to provide the information on those specific cases.
[Translation]
The Deputy Chair: We will start the second round of questions with Senator Marshall, followed by Senator Smith.
[English]
Senator Marshall: Thank you very much. I’m just trying to get organized here as a result of Senator Pate’s questions.
Immigration, I wanted to talk about a follow-up to Senator MacAdam’s question on the Auditor General’s report. I think you said, Ms. Manseau, that in terms of your service standards now, you’re meeting 80% of applications within service standards. Did I understand you incorrectly? I did.
Ms. Manseau: The goal is to process at least 80% of all new applications within service standards and accounting for expected delays in complex cases. Currently, as of September, we showed that we met 62% of all applications within our inventory. They were processed within the service standard, and that’s an improvement of 50% since January.
Senator Marshall: Okay. So when you take into consideration service standards, do you have different service standards for, say, privately sponsored people or common law spouses? Or is there one common service standard?
Ms. Manseau: It’s not one common service standard, but I would need to get back to you on the details.
Senator Marshall: Okay. Does the department have a plan as to what they would like their results to show as of March 31, 2024, and then what you’d like to see on March 31, 2025? Is there a plan laid out or are you just hoping for some sort of improvement?
Ms. Manseau: The goal is to achieve 80% of new applications within service standards.
Senator Marshall: By when?
Ms. Manseau: We do have a plan. I would need to get back to you on the details.
Senator Marshall: Okay. I would like to have a date. I’d also like to check something else you had said. Did you say there was $157 million attributable or set aside for IT development? My number shows $23 million. What’s being developed?
Ms. Manseau: In the Main Estimates, there’s a total of $157 million for the Digital Platform Modernization.
Senator Marshall: Okay.
Ms. Manseau: That’s to review our immigration system so that we improve the online experience through a single online window to access IRCC services.
Senator Marshall: Yes, I remember seeing something about that. Is there a plan laid out for that? If there’s $157 million, that’s not going to be done this year. That’s a multi-year thing?
Ms. Manseau: It’s a multi-year plan.
Senator Marshall: What’s the total estimated cost and the estimated implementation date? I need to know those two numbers.
Ms. Manseau: I’ll get back to you on that.
Senator Marshall: Could we also get a copy of the Neil Yates report? I think Mr. Yates is a former deputy minister of the department, and he did some sort of organizational review of the department. I know the media has a copy of the report, but I’d like to see it also.
Are some of his recommendations being implemented?
Ms. Manseau: His recommendations were taken into account as part of the implementation plan for the new structure.
Senator Marshall: Okay, so if we could get a copy of that report, that would be very helpful.
This is a follow-up to some of Senator Pate’s questions. The 2022 report of the Auditor General on systemic barriers to offenders, could you send something in as to how you’re dealing with that report? I saw something there. I just wanted to get the quote out there, if I can. It said, “ . . . Indigenous and Black offenders faced greater barriers to a safe and gradual reintegration into society than other incarcerated groups.”
I’m just wondering what the department has done to facilitate that implementation. If you could send us something in writing on that, that would be very helpful. Thank you.
Senator Smith: Ms. Mitchell, how are you today? You haven’t had a chance to say very much.
You briefly mentioned in your sources of revenue and your opening remarks, correct me if I’m wrong, but your funding requests on these Main Estimates was reduced by $120 million from revenues and other deductions. I just wondered if you could talk a little bit more about your data services. You had mentioned that. Who are the biggest purchasers of your data? Is this revenue stream increasing on a consistent basis?
Ms. Mitchell: Thank you for the question. Statistics Canada’s total resources include cost-recovery revenues and represents about one fifth of our overall resources, and we do specific projects with specific clients.
The majority of our clients are other federal organizations, the largest ones being Employment and Social Development Canada, Health Canada and Indigenous Services Canada. We have a number of large contracts with other partners, but we also work with other levels of government and academia.
In terms of your second question, our revenue levels have stayed stable in the last couple of years. We range from about $120 million to $154 million, but we do monitor that very closely when we’re entering into a period of austerity. Our services for our federal partners are considered professional services and are subject to a review by our partners as well when we look at austerity.
Senator Smith: Who would be your biggest clients from the federal side?
Ms. Mitchell: Our largest client, by far, is Employment and Social Development Canada. That’s one of our largest ones. Roughly about $40 million of our $120 million comes from that client, but we have a number of other federal partners as well.
Senator Smith: What are they looking for in terms of the data that you could provide for them?
Ms. Mitchell: What we offer in terms of cost-recovery services are very specific to the department. Statistics Canada is funded with parliamentary appropriations for national data, but when we work with our federal partners, it’s something specific that they are interested in.
For Employment and Social Development Canada, it’s an increased sample to our labour force survey, for example, or other projects that we work on with them as well.
Senator Smith: If you are able to get us any more information on that particular program, I think that would be helpful to us.
Ms. Mitchell: Yes, absolutely. Thank you.
Senator Smith: Well, thank you very much.
Senator Pate: This first question is for the Correctional Service Canada and then for Statistics Canada.
One of the things the Correctional Investigator pointed out in his last report was that while Canada has one of the highest funding rates and highest staff-to-prisoner ratios in the world, the allocation of funding in a top-down corporate manner tends to mean that we aren’t seeing the types of approaches that Senator Marshall just pointed out that the Auditor General and others are recommending. He recommended that $500 million over 10 years be moved from Correctional Service Canada to community initiatives.
I’m curious as to whether any movement has been made on that recommendation. If not, what other measures are being looked at to buttress the question that Senator Marshall made? As I mentioned earlier, we know that successive recommendations have come to start, particularly women prisoners, all at low security and that several high-profile releases of individuals who had previously been characterized as maximum security and dangerous were, when released, in fact, belied that entire description. The cost savings of them being in the community versus the $600,000 a year it was costing to keep them in maximum security, how much costing has been looked at and how that has impacted policy, if at all in practice, would be very helpful.
For Statistics Canada, the government has committed to using Gender-based Analysis Plus, or GBA Plus, in the development of policies, programs and legislation since 1995. What kind of movement have you been making? A number of us have been asking for disaggregated data as we’re considering many pieces of legislation. I’m curious what steps you are taking to ensure that disaggregated data is being included in the GBA Plus analyses that are being developed for legislation but also policy directives? What do you see as some of the moves forward in terms of how to address this? I’m also curious whether you’ve addressed these issues identified in the Commissioner of Environment and Sustainable Development’s report regarding moving forward as well.
I expect you’re going to have to provide that to me in writing.
Mr. Matson: We can get back to you with more details, absolutely, but I do know that we make great efforts to fund our community population. Funding does flow with the movement of the population to the community. We have a number of initiatives geared towards doing that, and so we have a very sound rehabilitation program and offenders are evaluated appropriately to determine if and when they are eligible to move to the community, and funding does flow with that.
With respect to the details on what we put in place to facilitate that, we can get back to you because the numbers are shifting and we are working very hard on that.
Senator Pate: That would be great, thank you.
[Translation]
Senator Dagenais: My next questions are for you, Mr. Matson.
There were recent newspaper articles about worrisome seizures at Cowansville Institution. To what extent is your budget adequate to combat weapons and drugs trafficking within the walls of your institutions and to intercept the drones that deliver this contraband without too much trouble?
As we know, your officers are unsatisfied with the level of security afforded to them.
[English]
Mr. Matson: Thank you for that comment and question. The security of our staff and inmates is a top priority for CSC. Drones are an issue for us, as it is in many jurisdictions across North America. We are implementing some measures to deal with it. We are trying to implement measures to stop drones from allowing contraband — and potentially weapons and other harmful material — into the institutions.
We’re working very closely with our union colleagues on those initiatives, and we’re hoping in the near future some of the things that we put in place will start to bear fruit. We have seen some evidence of improvements with some of the technology that we put in place and other measures, and it is a top priority for us.
[Translation]
Senator Dagenais: To come back to the drone issue, there’s a journalist who made a bad joke. He said that there were more drones landing at Cowansville than at the Montreal airport.
You’ll understand this was a joke.
On the issue of your budget increase being below 1%, it’s lower than that of other government services. Please understand I’m not criticizing you here. Is that due to a decreasing inmate population? If so, is that due to there being fewer convictions or rather to more frequent early releases?
While we’re at it, could you tell us how much it costs per year to house a federal inmate in 2023?
[English]
Mr. Matson: Our funding is a combination of fixed and variable funding, and so we have a large component of our funding that is fixed in nature, but there’s a significant amount that changes based on the number of offenders in population, and it also changes with inflationary pressures.
Our counts are going up right now, but the recent decline has resulted in some reductions in the variable component of our funding. Thankfully, that model that we have is allowing us to deal with significant inflationary pressures because costs are going up regardless of whether or not our offender numbers are going up and down.
I don’t know if that answers your question, but I do want you to know that if the number of offenders in our organization goes down, our funding — a portion of it — is adjusted appropriately. Likewise if it goes up, we do get additional funding.
[Translation]
Senator Dagenais: How much does it cost per year to house an inmate?
[English]
Mr. Matson: That’s a very complex question. It depends on the type of inmate. High security, maximum security versus minimum versus medium, the cost is different for each. We do that costing every year to make sure that our funding models are aligned appropriately, but it is different for every level of inmate, and in the community as well. The costs are much different than they are for somebody in maximum security, for example.
[Translation]
The Deputy Chair: Perhaps you could submit your written response to the clerk.
[English]
Senator MacAdam: This question is for Immigration. I want to know how the system works for processing students wanting to come to Canada to study. I’m interested in knowing how students are vetted and do they need to pass a criminal record check before they come to Canada? There’s been some media attention around this issue in terms of maybe using forged university acceptance letters and things like that to get into Canada. Could you just elaborate on how the system works for students?
Ms. Manseau: We can get back to you with a more detailed description of the process, but since January, we’ve processed 670,000 applications for students, and just a few days ago there was an announcement to adopt a recognized institutional framework to benefit post-secondary designated learning institutions that will set a higher standard for services and will support outcomes for international students, which will be launched later in 2023.
We will also have enhanced tools to verify a letter of acceptance before a student permit is issued, and that will also be launched later in 2023. However, I can provide you with a more detailed description.
Senator MacAdam: Okay, thank you.
My next question is for Statistics Canada. You mentioned that roughly one fifth of your resources are provided through cost recovery from other departments. The estimates that are here, is this the gross cost of the expenditures for Statistics Canada or is it net of cost recovery?
Ms. Mitchell: In the estimates, it includes an estimate of $120 million as part of the total authorities for Statistics Canada, and so that’s the estimate that we have at the beginning of the year, but then it depends on the agreements that we sign with our different partners.
As a point of precision, most of our clients are other federal departments, but we do have other jurisdictions, academia and other clients as well that aren’t federal, but we mostly have federal departments.
Senator MacAdam: Would those that are outside of government be in the revenue estimates then?
Ms. Mitchell: Absolutely, yes.
Senator MacAdam: Are any of the departments in the revenue estimates or just the outside of government?
Ms. Mitchell: The revenue estimate includes all clients. It includes federal departments and then other levels of government and academia as well. It’s our global estimate.
Senator MacAdam: Okay. With regards to these requests coming from departments, is there a backlog of requests? Is there a wait list? Are they generally dealt with as they come in?
Ms. Mitchell: The way the cost recovery program works is we enter into a formal agreement with our partner, it’s documented in terms of expectations and there’s no backlog. It’s an agreement for every year.
We do have multi-year agreements with some of our clients as well, but there’s accounting every year on the deliverables, and that’s how it’s tracked. So there is no backlog in terms of cost recovery.
Senator MacAdam: Okay. When you bill for your services, do you build in a margin?
Ms. Mitchell: Our billing practices that apply to most clients is interim billing. We’ll start by billing some of the costs during the year, and by the end of the fiscal year, we only recover actual costs incurred, so the final bill is about actual costs.
Senator MacAdam: Thank you.
Senator Loffreda: My question is for Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada. Per the Auditor General of Canada, privately sponsored refugees seeking permanent residency in Canada are waiting an average of 2.5 years for a decision on their application, and yes due diligence in these matters is extremely important. But with refugees often being in dire straits, it is important for their safety that we process their application in a timely manner, whether the outcome is positive or not. According to the Main Estimates, the department expects to spend $1 billion less than it is estimated to have spent in 2022-23.
I do appreciate these numbers are not finalized. More requests will likely be coming in Supplementary Estimates (B) and (C). However, with this figure in mind, what is the reason behind this lengthy wait time for refugees?
I did sponsor the Budget Implementation Act in the Senate last spring, and I know changes were made to improve client service in the private sponsorship of refugees to provide shorter, more predictable processing times. Have these changes been implemented? What early results can you share with us?
Ms. Manseau: We will be happy to get back to you on answers to your questions on processing time for our refugees.
Senator Loffreda: Thank you for that. I do have another question, and it’s concerning handguns.
According to Reuters in 2021, 85% of handguns and 70% of all guns involved in crimes in Ontario were traced back to the United States, and we did sign an agreement aiming to improve the tracing of firearms. How many firearms have the government seized in the last year? What percentage can be traced to the United States? What steps have the government taken to strengthen the interception of illegal firearms at the border?
Mr. Moor: Thank you very much for the question. I’m pleased to say that we seized 1,100 firearms in 2022, and we have seized over 1,000 firearms already in 2023. I’m also pleased to say that in 2023 we’ve had 21 successful prosecutions for firearms-related offences.
The government did commit over $312 million over five years in Budget 2021 for resources for CBSA and the RCMP to increase intelligence and investigative capacity at our border, and increase the RCMP’s ability to trace crime guns and detect them for purchasing.
The number of new recruits from the CBSA has increased over the last couple of years in order to provide those additional resources at the border. Overall, over the last year, we seized over 20,000 weapons, but 1,100 firearms.
Senator Loffreda: Thank you.
Senator Galvez: My question is to Statistics Canada. You mentioned in your opening remarks that we are asking for more data on environmental concerns, that you are planning to disclose and release some of this information that you have been collecting and that your goal is better data for better outcomes.
With respect to sustainable development, your department was charged with measuring the affordable and clean energy goal, which is Goal 7, and on Goal 9, industries, innovation and infrastructure.
When I want to look at how well Canada is doing with its Sustainable Development Goals, I cannot find that under Statistics Canada, so I rely on reports done by other institutions. The reports coming in for Canada show that, in attaining our sustainable development goals, we are in position 26. That means we are not within the G7 and we are not even within the G20, so our peers are well ahead of us.
The other indicator — also given by international organizations — is the spillover, meaning how our economy affects positively or negatively on the sustainable goals of other countries. In that, we are in a really bad position — position 134. That’s really bad.
Are these organizations collecting data from you or from where? Who is collecting this data? What is the portion of your budget that goes into collecting this important data in order to validate or agree with what the international data is reporting? Thank you.
Ms. Mitchell: Thank you for the question. On some of it, I will have to get back to you.
In terms of Sustainable Development Goals, Statistics Canada participates in a bit of a leadership role internationally on the development and measurement of the goals. Our data is prominent in the portal, so we can share the portal with you. I don’t have it with me to discuss. I can also get back to you on the positions. Sorry, I don’t have that information with me, but data in terms of the sustainability goals is definitely a priority for Canada. Thank you for the question and I will get back to you.
Senator Galvez: What percentage of your budget goes to that?
Ms. Mitchell: I also don’t have that information with me.
Senator Galvez: Deputy Chair, I asked several questions to which the answers should be coming at some point before a certain date?
[Translation]
It would be in writing before a specified date.
The Deputy Chair: I’ll set the date in the next few minutes.
Senator Galvez: Thank you very much.
The Deputy Chair: This concludes our second round of questions. Senator Marshall and Senator Dagenais have stated their intention to ask a question.
If any other colleagues wish to ask questions, I’m ready to accept them.
[English]
Senator Marshall: I’m going back to Ms. Manseau. I asked for the plan to address the backlog, and I’m expecting to see dates and what you think your inventory will be, but you also mentioned a transformation plan. Is that the same thing? Is the transformation plan the same as the plan for addressing the backlog?
Ms. Manseau: There will be two different plans. We have an additional platform modernization plan that is multi-year and also plans to address backlogs. We can get back to you.
Senator Marshall: I would be interested in both plans. That would give me an idea of how the department works.
My question on this round is for Ms. Mitchell from Statistics Canada. You get a lot of data. I expect you get a lot from the Canada Revenue Agency, which I would think would be non‑identifying, but you also get a lot of information from individuals in response to your inquiries or whatever. Some are mandatory, and some are voluntary. I received a voluntary one, and I thought that the questions were fairly intrusive. Since it was voluntary, I didn’t answer, but I expect some people did.
Can you tell us something about the controls that you maintain over all the data that you collect? You have a lot of data on individual people. Have you had any problems with your systems? Do you know how many times someone has tried to access your system inappropriately? I am very interested in security over your data. You can tell us something about that?
Ms. Mitchell: Thank you for the question. Privacy and confidentiality of our data are essential to our mandate. We have an area on our website called the Trust Centre. On the Trust Centre, we publish our different protocols for managing the data. I’m very proud to say that we haven’t had any material breaches, but that doesn’t mean that we don’t continue to pay attention to it as well.
Canadians trust Statistics Canada with their data, and it’s paramount to us to protect that data. The Statistics Act is very clear in terms of our mandate to collect, compile, analyze and process data for statistical purposes. I am not sure which survey you received, but some of the data that we receive can only be collected through a survey mechanism. We are experimenting with more modern methods in terms of working with administrative records, such as those from the Canada Revenue Agency, but there are some data that we do need to seek directly from Canadians for sensitive statistics. Absolutely, protecting the privacy and confidentiality of individual data and businesses data is very important to Statistics Canada.
Senator Marshall: How much of your data would be non‑identifying, as opposed to data that’s identifying? Because I think your surveys answered by individual taxpayers would be identifying, wouldn’t they? But the data coming over from the Canada Revenue Agency would not be identifying, none of it?
Ms. Mitchell: Thank you for the question. I’m not a specialist in data privacy. We also work closely with the Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada, and we have an excellent relationship to ensure privacy continues for Canadians’ data.
I don’t know what percentage of data that comes in is sensitive for the individual. I know for the Canada Revenue Agency data, there is a process to strip the data from the individuals’ identity and use that data for statistical purposes, but I’m not expert in that domain.
Senator Marshall: There is data from the Canada Revenue Agency showing that, sometimes, individual employees access data which they should not be accessing. Do you have controls to prevent that? Is access to data restricted to certain individuals or certain types of information? That would be my last question.
Ms. Mitchell: Yes, access to data is tightly controlled. Only certain individuals who need to access the data would have access to it. Absolutely, yes, that’s a process —
[Translation]
Senator Dagenais: My question is for Mr. Matson.
Your budget includes funds for Indigenous rehabilitation programs. Last April, some Indigenous interest groups in B.C. criticized the way you used these funds allocated to you. They’re even calling for $1 billion to be slashed from your budget and reallocated to Indigenous-operated halfway houses.
Could you give us examples of programs and compare their efficacy for this particular group of offenders to those of the general inmate population? Are they producing results or has your budget hit a ceiling in terms of what it can accomplish? Do these Indigenous interest groups have good reason to be critical?
[English]
Mr. Matson: Thank you for the question. First of all, we don’t redirect funds that are given to us for certain purposes, and so that’s my only comment on that issue. We do have a number of initiatives in place specifically targeted towards promoting the reintegration of Indigenous offenders in our organizations. We can either send you a list of those initiatives or my colleague France Gratton, who is here, might be able to provide more detail on that today. I know we have a number of specifically Indigenous-targeted initiatives to help achieve that goal.
[Translation]
Senator Dagenais: You can send us your answers in writing.
Mr. Matson: Absolutely.
Senator Dagenais: Thank you very much.
[English]
Senator Pate: I want to provide Ms. Mitchell an opportunity to respond to my question. I don’t recall what I was asking. Thank you.
Ms. Mitchell: Thank you. The question was on gender-based analysis and disaggregated data.
Senator Pate: As well as the issues raised by the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development’s report. It’s also linked to the issues that Senator Galvez raised.
Ms. Mitchell: Thank you. In Budget 2021, it was announced that Statistics Canada would seek $172 million over five years, starting in 2021-22, with $36.3 million ongoing to implement the Disaggregated Data Action Plan, a top priority for the agency. We published a report in July of 2023 on our website about the progress to date, so I will just share a few points from that report.
We’re responding to the requests by Canadians to have more disaggregated data broken down into categories such as gender, race, age, income level and combining these categories as well, at the lowest level of geography possible.
In this first report, the focus is on the four employment equity groups, so Indigenous peoples, women, racialized populations and persons with disabilities. We do have a Gender, Diversity and Inclusion Statistics Hub on our website, which compiles a number of different data sets into one area for ease of reference and analysis. I’m happy to get into some of the accomplishments from the report, but it’s there on the website, and it is definitely linked to the GBA Plus as well.
In terms of the environment and sustainability report, I will have to get back to you on that point.
Senator Pate: Thank you very much.
Senator Loffreda: My last question is for Statistics Canada. With the rise of working from home initiated by the pandemic, the workplace environment has dramatically changed. Employers, including the public service and the private sector, as well as employees, have for the most part embraced hybrid work arrangements. However, Canadians across the country experience both the benefits and challenges posed by working from home.
Statistics Canada 2023-24 Departmental Plan puts the well‑being of employees and managers as a priority, saying that wellness activities will focus on helping employees, “. . . to deal with mental health issues in the workplace.”
Like anywhere else, the success of Statistics Canada is founded on the well-being of its many hardworking employees. With this context in mind, could you elaborate on how the department plans to help employees to manage their mental health?
Also, can you speak to us about the agency’s analysis of Statistics Canada and Employment and Social Development Canada Employee Wellness Survey data sets? What new insights have you discovered in the survey that could help shape the government’s overall approach to maximize productivity and the hybrid model?
Just to conclude, this is important for organizations as well in effectively supporting employees’ mental health as they work from home and in implementing effective strategies to ensure their employees’ well-being as they shape the future of hybrid work models.
Ms. Mitchell: Thank you for the question. It is a very important topic for our workforce, as it is for workforces across the country and across the world.
The government communicated the hybrid framework to departments in mid-December of 2022. Statistics Canada implemented the hybrid framework within our agency as a soft launch in July with an implementation in September. We are fully aligned with the government’s direction in terms of adopting a hybrid model for our workforce across the country. We do have some offices across the country, and it definitely applies.
In terms of mental health and wellness, Statistics Canada has a champion that’s responsible for mental health and wellness, and the champion oversees a number of activities that are run during the year. Some are for the National Public Service Week, but there are other activities throughout the year.
In our human resources branch, we also offer several learning activities for employees to sign up to discuss mental health. The Canada School of Public Service also offers a number of opportunities for employees to participate in the discussion of mental health.
Statistics Canada does some mental health statistics for Canadians. We do have surveys that look at mental health across the country. The Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat is responsible for the public service, and we do work closely with them in terms of providing data on the mental health of Statistics Canada employees and public service employees.
You referenced the employee wellness survey. We conducted that survey in 2019, and we’re just about to launch another version. So we had the employee wellness survey, and then the Government of Canada did the Public Service Employee Survey, and now we’re coming with our second round of the employee wellness survey. The results from the 2019 survey will be renewed this year, and there is a focus on the mental health and well-being of employees in the workplace, so there is more to follow on that.
I don’t have the results of 2019 survey with me, but it is definitely a priority for Statistics Canada.
Senator Loffreda: Thank you.
The Deputy Chair: Thank you. Now that we have reached the end of our time, we will conclude the meeting. I would like to thank you for appearing today. It is much appreciated.
[Translation]
We might have just broken the record for the number of delayed answers we’ll be expecting from you. I’m certain that you will be supplying these answers to our clerk by end of day on November 14, 2023. That way, we will be able to present our report to the Senate. I think our clerk’s inbox will soon be overflowing.
[English]
Before adjourning, I remind senators that our next meeting will be tomorrow, Wednesday, November 1, at 6:45 p.m. to continue our study on the Main Estimates 2023-24.
[Translation]
Before concluding this meeting, I’d like to thank the committee’s support staff in its entirety — those who are in the room with us as well as those who work in the background. Thank you for your work, which is vital to the success of our work in committee as well as that of individual senators.
(The committee adjourned.)