THE STANDING SENATE COMMITTEE ON SOCIAL AFFAIRS, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY
EVIDENCE
OTTAWA, Thursday, June 26, 2025
The Standing Senate Committee on Social Affairs, Science and Technology met this day at 10:01 a.m. [ET], pursuant to rule 12-13 of the Rules of the Senate, to organize the activities of the committee.
[English]
Andrea Mugny, Clerk of the Committee, Senate of Canada: As clerk of your committee, it is my duty to preside over the election of the chair. I’m ready to receive a motion to that effect.
Senator Senior: I will nominate Senator Moodie.
Ms. Mugny: The Honourable Senator Senior nominates that Senator Moodie do take the chair. Are there any other nominations? Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
Ms. Mugny: I declare the motion carried and I invite Senator Moodie to take the chair.
Senator Rosemary Moodie (Chair) in the chair.
The Chair: Colleagues, thank you very much. I’m going to take a few minutes to thank you for your confidence. I’m honoured to serve as your chair.
This committee has a long-standing culture of collaboration, transparency and effectiveness. I commit to you to continue to grow this culture and I look forward to the important work that we will do together in this session.
I want to take a moment briefly before we continue to recognize two important colleagues who will be leaving us very soon. I wanted to thank Senator Mégie for her many years of service on this committee and in the Senate. Senator Mégie, if you were here, I would thank you for your advocacy, for your insight and for the lasting impact you have had on our work. You will be missed around this table, and we wish you all the best in retirement.
I also wanted to acknowledge and thank Senator Seidman. She is not with us today as well, but I think it’s important to have this on record. Senator Seidman spent more than a decade on this committee and we have benefited from her experience and from her wisdom. There is a lot that can be said about her, but suffice it to say that she will also be missed at this table. Thank you both, dear colleagues, for their diligent service.
With that, let us proceed with certain motions. We’ll now proceed with the election of the deputy chair. I’m ready to receive a motion to that effect. Are there any nominations?
Senator Hay: I’ll nominate Senator Osler.
The Chair: Thank you. Are there any other nominations? If not, the election of deputy chair, the Honourable Senator Gigi Osler, is moved by Senator Hay. Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt this motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: I declare the motion carried.
We now have some routine motions to adopt. Do I have a mover for motion 3, Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure?
Senator Boudreau: I would have maybe proposed an amendment to motion 3 prior to having it adopted. My understanding —
The Chair: We can share it with you. Okay, perfect.
Senator Boudreau: Thank you. My understanding is many committees have taken this approach just to make sure that the steering committee works obviously in coordination and in conjunction with the whole committee. I don’t think it has been an issue for SOCI in the past, but my understanding is there are some committees where there may have been some issues there. A simple amendment would resolve the issue. I would propose that the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be composed — no, this isn’t the one —
The Chair: Can I suggest that I proceed with recognition of the committee as a whole and then we move to your amendment.
Senator Boudreau: Okay.
The Chair: The Honourable Senator Boudreau moved:
That the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be composed of the chair, the deputy chair and two other members of the committee, to be designated after the usual consultations; and
So this is the way it reads currently and I believe your amendment will follow.
That the subcommittee be empowered to make decisions on behalf of the committee with respect to its agenda, to invite witnesses, and to schedule hearings.
Senator Boudreau, would you like to propose an amendment?
Senator Boudreau: Yes, please. I would propose that the subcommittee be responsible for considering and consulting with the committee with respect to its agenda to invite witnesses and to schedule hearings.
The Chair: Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the amendment?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
Senator Hay: May I ask a question?
The Chair: Sure, certainly.
Senator Hay: I’m curious, does that remove decision making from the steering committee and move it back to the committee as a whole?
Senator Boudreau: Correct. The idea is the steering committee would basically make recommendations to the entire committee as opposed to having the power to make decisions on behalf of the committee. Because at the end of the day, the steering committee is a subcommittee of the main committee.
Senator Hay: I understand that. I’m just curious whether that would create a little inertia if decisions are taken like that.
Senator Boudreau: It hasn’t in the past. My brief experience on SOCI last fall, you know, it’s the way I believe this committee has been functioning for quite some time.
Senator Hay: I see.
Senator Boudreau: And it hasn’t seemed to slow things down. It just makes sure that everyone on the committee has a chance to provide some input on what direction the committee is taking.
The Chair: I would like to add to what Senator Boudreau was saying. Senator Petitclerc was our past chair for many years. This was an amendment that was first brought up by one of our colleagues who has subsequently passed on, Senator Forest-Niesing. It was done in the spirit of saying the steering committees don’t make the decisions for the committee, and that, in fact, they are responsible for organizing or doing the behind-the-scenes work. There are some decisions they make when needed, but in fact it’s the broader group that bears the responsibility.
This ensures that steering don’t take off and take over and the broader group loses contact with the decision making of the committee. This has worked very well in the past. I was a member as a young member of the Senate when Senator Petitclerc set this up for us and the first time a motion was passed. If she were here, she would tell you that she has been chair through a period without it and chair through a period with it, and she preferred having it there because it ensured that we always remembered to bring the important decisions back to the broader group. So I certainly have supported it in the past. I think it’s an open, transparent and we have not experienced any issues.
I know the concern is that we would slow things down if everything has to be vetoed by the broader group, but that is not how it has worked.
Senator Hay: Just a follow-up, and apologies for a lack of protocol here. So the amendment is just actually setting it right for how the committee has worked in the past?
The Chair: Correct.
Senator Hay: Thank you for the clarification.
The Chair: We are trying to do this in a way that says that, eventually, this is the way we should be looking at our committees, and this is a change that we feel has been necessary for many years.
I’m sorry, but there are another couple of questions.
Senator Muggli: Could you read the original language?
The Chair: I can. It says:
That the subcommittee be empowered to make decisions on behalf of the committee with respect to its agenda, to invite witnesses, and to schedule hearings.
Senator Muggli: So it is removing the language “empowered” to “consulting and considering.” We just did the same amendment in the AGFO committee. It’s really about the steering committee still has responsibilities to do that organization, et cetera, but it amps it up with ensuring that the full committee is engaged in some of those decisions.
The Chair: Especially around the calling of witnesses. In the past, that has been an issue.
Senator Muggli: But just to be clear, that doesn’t mean that the whole committee would be having votes on approving every witness. It’s still the steering committee that ultimately makes those decisions, but it’s based on a more open, consultative approach with the full committee. Correct?
The Chair: Exactly correct. Is it your pleasure, senators, to adopt this amendment?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall the motion, as amended, carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: I declare the motion, as amended, carried.
The members appointed to the subcommittee are Senator McPhedran — who is not here right now — Senator Osler and Senator Hay as well.
Could I have a mover for Motion 4, to publish the committee’s proceedings?
Senator Senior: Do we need to nominate the rest of the subcommittee, or is it an appointment?
The Chair: No. That is a decision made at the level of their groups. They are not named in our proceedings. We’ve done it to be respectful.
Could I have a mover for Motion 4?
Senator Arnold: I so move.
Ms. Mugny: Motion to publish the committee’s proceedings. The Honourable Senator Arnold moved:
That the committee publish its proceedings.
Is the motion carried?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: I declare the motion carried.
Do I have a mover for Motion 5 relating to research staff? The Honourable Senator Hay moved:
That the committee ask the Library of Parliament to assign analysts to the committee;
That the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be authorized to retain the services of experts as may be required by the work of the committee; and
That the chair, on behalf of the committee, direct the research staff in the preparation of studies, analyses, summaries, and draft reports.
Is the motion carried?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: I declare the motion carried.
I would like to invite the committee analysts, at this point, to be introduced. I would ask Laura Blackmore, Mayra Perez-Leclerc and Diana Ambrozas to join us at the table.
Laura Blackmore has been an analyst supporting the Standing Senate Committee on Social Affairs, Science and Technology since the Forty-third Parliament. She has a master’s degree in social history from the University of Ottawa and has been with the Library’s research team since 2018.
Mayra Perez-Leclerc is a legal analyst who has been working for the Library of Parliament for the past 10 years. She has supported the work of both Senate and House of Commons committees and has been assigned to SOCI since January 2024.
Diana Ambrozas has been a Library of Parliament analyst supporting several Senate and House of Commons committees since 2022. She currently supports the Subcommittee on Veterans Affairs and SOCI part-time. Diana previously worked in the federal public service and holds a PhD in social sciences and a BSc in physics.
Could I have a mover for Motion 6, authority to commit funds? The Honourable Senator Muggli moved:
That, pursuant to section 6(1), chapter 3:05 of the Senate Administrative Rules, authority to commit funds be conferred individually on the chair, the deputy chair and the clerk of the committee;
That, pursuant to section 7(1), chapter 3:05 of the Senate Administrative Rules, authority for certifying accounts payable by the committee be conferred individually on the chair, the deputy chair, and the clerk of the committee; and
That, notwithstanding the foregoing, in cases related to consultants and personnel services, the authority to commit funds and certify accounts be conferred jointly on the chair and deputy chair.
Is the motion carried, colleagues?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: I declare the motion carried.
Could I have a mover for Motion 7? Senator Senior. The Honourable Senator Senior moved:
That the committee empower the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure to designate, as required, one or more members of the committee and/or such staff as may be necessary to travel on assignment on behalf of the committee.
Colleagues, is the motion carried?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: I declare the motion carried.
Could I have a mover for Motion 8? Senator Boudreau. The Honourable Senator Boudreau moved:
That the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be authorized to:
1) determine whether any member of the committee is on “official business” for the purposes of paragraph 8(3)(a) of the Senators Attendance Policy, published in the Journals of the Senate on Wednesday, June 3, 1998; and
2) consider any member of the committee to be on “official business” if that member is: (a) attending an event or meeting related to the work of the committee; or (b) making a presentation related to the work of the committee; and
That the subcommittee report at the earliest opportunity any decisions taken with respect to the designation of members of the committee travelling on committee business.
Is this motion carried, colleagues?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: I declare the motion carried.
Moving on to Motion 9. Do I have a mover for Motion 9? Senator Petitclerc.
Senator Burey: I’m not sure if I could ask a question. I’m sorry, I was in another committee. I have to move a motion, but I wasn’t here. I would like direction as to what could happen. So proceed, but I wasn’t here for the election of the deputy chair. You did it.
The Chair: We did. You had a proxy voter.
Could I have a mover for Motion 9? Senator Petitclerc. The Honourable Senator Petitclerc moved:
That, pursuant to the Senate guidelines for witness expenses, the committee may reimburse reasonable expenses related to the appearance of one witness per organization upon application, but that the chair be authorized to approve expenses of a second witness from the same organization should there be exceptional circumstances.
Is the motion carried, colleagues? I declare the motion carried.
Could I have a mover for Motion 10? Senator Arnold. Senator Arnold moved:
That the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be empowered to direct communications officer(s) assigned to the committee in the development of communications plans and products where appropriate and to request the services of the Senate Communications, Broadcasting and Publications Directorate for the purposes of the promotion of their work; and
That the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be empowered to allow coverage by electronic media of the committee’s public proceedings with the least possible disruption of its proceedings at its discretion.
Is the motion carried, colleagues?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: I declare the motion carried.
The communications officer assigned to this committee is Monica Granados. Ms. Granados joined the Senate in late September 2020 and brings extensive experience in parliamentary affairs, media relations and government communications, along with a strong background in government relations from the private sector.
Colleagues, this now brings us to the final item before adjournment of the business. The time slot for regular meetings. Based on the current sitting schedule for Senate committees, SOCI committees will be held weekly in room B45 in the Senate of Canada building on Wednesdays from 4:15 to 6:15 p.m. and on Thursdays from 11:30 a.m. to 1:30 p.m. Please note that, as per usual practice, the schedule will be reviewed before the Senate resumes in the fall and any changes affecting the start time of SOCI will be communicated to you, all members.
Unofficially, I just mention there is some possible change on the Thursday schedule that may occur because of the earlier start being proposed for the start of the Senate on a Thursday. Should that occur, we would inform you of the new starting time.
This brings us to the end of our meeting. I would like to thank you for your participation today, and I look forward to a productive session. This meeting is adjourned.
Senator Petitclerc: Organizing committees are only 30 minutes, and that explains why I was a little late and missed the discussion when we were addressing motion 3. I also wanted to voice support with the small amendment on motion 3 which we had to vote on by nominal voices on the other committees. So thank you for this.
The Chair: And I thank you for that.
Senator Arnold: I’m curious what expectations might be over the summer. Is there a way for us to get organized on thematics or how we would like to proceed as a committee? Will we be doing anything for the summer? Is there a way for us to see what has been done in the past?
The Chair: One of the first things that will need to happen is we will need to convene as a steering committee meeting and have a discussion that really addresses that. Once that has occurred, I think that we can move into possibly some activities during the summer.
We learned in our preparatory meeting that the bills that have already been referred to us, we have the authority to start working on plans for those. We would decide on perhaps the order of things. And if we do consider a study moving forward, we would certainly be talking to the broader committee to get agreement on that, but we could start doing some preparatory work.
This is an awkward time, today being the last sitting day. So we would be looking at and asking people to attend a virtual meeting in which we did some informal planning, but that’s not yet determined. That would have to follow the steering committee meeting. So right now that’s going to be my first priority.
Senator Hay: Anyone who is new to the committee, if we could have a meeting with the clerk and team just to brief us on the last year, the last session, what is still pending, what we could pick up. That would be onboarding for the newbies.
The Chair: I like that idea.
Senator Senior: Even the “oldies.”
Senator Hay: Even though I’m older than you, but I’ll be a newbie for now.
The Chair: Our clerk is returning in mid-August, so Ms. Mugny is going to help us right now so we can organize. Just to let you know, we will have a different clerk when we next see each other.
Great idea. Any other suggestions, discussion at this point in time? If not, I want to take this opportunity to go back and I did read it before, but I’ll read it again because Senator Mégie wasn’t here. I want to thank you for your many years of service on this committee in the Senate. Your advocacy and insight have been meaningful and have had a lasting impact for many of us who knew you and worked beside you. You will be missed from around this table, and we wish you all the best in your retirement.
[Translation]
Senator Mégie: Thank you for your cooperation in all the discussions we’ve had here. I’ve really enjoyed my time with you. I have been on this committee for quite a while. I left and I came back, so that tells you how much this committee means to me. Thank you. Perhaps we’ll see each other again for a committee appearance.
[English]
The Chair: Thank you, Senator Mégie.
We can proceed to adjournment. Thank you for joining us for this meeting.
(The committee adjourned.)