THE STANDING SENATE COMMITTEE ON TRANSPORT AND COMMUNICATIONS
EVIDENCE
OTTAWA, Wednesday, June 25, 2025
The Standing Senate Committee on Transport and Communications met this day at 4:04 p.m. [ET], pursuant to rule 12-13 of the Rules of the Senate, to organize the activities of the committee.
[English]
Andrea Mugny, Clerk of the Committee, Senate of Canada: As clerk of your committee, it is my duty to preside over the election of the chair. I am ready to receive a motion to that effect.
Senator Manning: I nominate Senator Larry Smith, please.
Ms. Mugny: It is moved by the Honourable Senator Manning that the Honourable Senator Smith do take the chair of this committee. Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
Ms. Mugny: I declare the motion carried, and I invite the Honourable Senator Smith to take the chair.
Hon. Senators: Hear, hear.
Senator Larry Smith (Chair) in the chair.
The Chair: We have had a quick chance to introduce ourselves to those who have not had the opportunity to meet before. I am glad to see you all here. The objective of today is to try to set a parameter framework so that when we come back in the fall we will be able to get at it and take some initiatives, make some decisions, move forward and have some fun together.
The objective of — and I have had the opportunity over time of working in the finance area as chair, and the objective was to always try to have a win-win where we can develop questions and answers and have a direction forward. I would like to do that with this particular group. I look forward to working with you.
Senator Wilson, I did not catch you before you came in. Nice to see you here. Thank you very much for your participation.
My management style is quite simple: Basically, I like to give people the opportunity to take leadership, and the leadership I provide myself is basically interaction and trying to assist if there is any need for it. Really, it is the group that makes it go, and we should have some fun.
It is important to be realistic. I have a date in front of me, which I always hated. In anything I did in my life, when I was told that I cannot play football anymore at the professional level, that was a bit of a challenge. When I was told they did not need me as commissioner anymore of the Canadian Football League, that was a bit of a challenge. But after each challenge, there is new opportunity.
For us, one of the things we want to think about, potentially, is do we have a project that will be a major project, or do we do some short-term projects that can be delivered as quickly as possible so that we do not have a major break or lapse between the time where your chair comes in and then you have a new chair who comes in because of retirement. It is important to get it out in front of all of us so that we can have a mindset that may be able to adjust to the realities of the situation we’re in at this particular time. If that were all right with everyone, then we can proceed.
We will now proceed to the election of the deputy chair.
I am ready to receive a motion to that effect. Are there any nominations?
An Hon. Senator: I would nominate Senator Donna Dasko.
The Chair: Are there any other discussions or nominations for the position?
Is it moved that the Honourable Senator Donna Dasko be deputy chair of this committee?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Thank you. It passed. I should have said, “Is it your pleasure to adopt the motion?” It shows how long I haven’t been in charge of these things. I declare the motion carried.
Now we have routine motions to adopt.
Do I have a mover for motion 3, Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure? The Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure, the honourable — will someone move that?
Senator Quinn: Yes.
The Chair: Senator Quinn, thank you, sir.
That the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be composed of the chair, the deputy chair and two other members of the committee, to be designated after the usual consultations; and
That the subcommittee be empowered to make decisions on behalf of the committee with respect to its agenda, to invite witnesses, and to schedule hearings.
Is this motion carried, honourable senators?
Hon. Senators: Yes.
The Chair: Agreed. I declare the motion carried.
Two other members appointed to the subcommittee are — we need to have nominations, do we not?
Ms. Mugny: We don’t need to.
The Chair: We do not. Okay.
Senator Wilson.
We need to have a name — or a candidate for the other position? We will get that subsequently. Thank you.
Do I have a mover for motion 4, to publish the subcommittee’s proceedings?
Senator Hay? Thank you.
Motion to publish the committee’s proceedings, moved by Senator Hay:
That the committee publish its proceedings.
Is that motion carried?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: I declare the motion as carried.
Do we have a mover for motion 5 relating to research staff?
Senator Cormier, thank you.
That the committee ask the Library of Parliament to assign analysts to the committee;
That the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be authorized to retain the services of experts as may be required by the work of the committee; and
That the chair, on behalf of the committee, direct the research staff in the preparation of studies, analyses, summaries, and draft reports.
Is this motion carried?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Thank you. I declare the motion carried.
I would now like to introduce the committee analysts, Geneviève Gosselin and Marion Ménard.
[Translation]
I apologize for my poor pronunciation. We also have Marion Ménard, Analyst, with us. Welcome.
Geneviève Gosselin, Analyst, Library of Parliament: Thank you.
[English]
The Chair: Geneviève Gosselin is an analyst at the Library of Parliament. Over the past seven years, she supported the House of Commons Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities. She has provided assistance to members with studies on, among other things, accessible air transportation, port infrastructure, expansion projects, shoreline erosion and labour shortages in the transportation sector.
Marion Ménard has been an analyst at the Library of Parliament since 2002. During these years, he has collaborated with approximately 10 parliamentary committees in the House of Commons and the Senate of Canada. From 2007 to 2024, he contributed his expertise to the House of Commons Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage and studies on federal cultural policies, the Canadian broadcasting system and the Canadian sports system. In 2018 and 2019, he notably worked with the Standing Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Trade on a study on the role of Canadian culture and arts and Canadian foreign policy and diplomacy.
Do we have a mover for motion 6? Senator Manning.
Next I would say is the authority to commit funds.
Do we have someone to move that?
Ms. Mugny: Senator Manning has moved that.
The Chair: He has moved that also. Thank you, Senator Manning.
That, pursuant to section 6(1), chapter 3:05 of the Senate Administrative Rules, authority to commit funds be conferred individually on the chair, the deputy chair, and the clerk of the committee;
That, pursuant to section 7(1), chapter 3:05 of the Senate Administrative Rules, authority for certifying accounts payable by the committee be conferred individually on the chair, the deputy chair, and the clerk of the committee; and
That, notwithstanding the foregoing, in cases related to consultants and personnel services, the authority to commit funds and certify accounts be conferred jointly on the chair and deputy chair.
Is the motion carried?
Senator Cormier?
Senator Cormier: Yes.
The Chair: Thank you. I declare the motion carried.
Do we have a mover for motion 7, which is travel? Senator Hay.
That the committee empower the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure to designate, as required, one or more members of the committee and/or such staff as may be necessary to travel on assignment on behalf of the committee.
Is this motion carried?
Senator Cormier: Carried.
The Chair: Thank you, Senator Cormier.
I declare that motion carried.
Do we have a mover for motion 8, designated members travelling on committee business?
Senator Quinn, thank you. I always like to pick on Senator Quinn in other areas. Designation of members travelling on committee business. Thank you, Senator Quinn.
That the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be authorized to:
1) determine whether any member of the committee is on “official business” for the purposes of paragraph 8(3)(a) of the Senators Attendance Policy, published in the Journals of the Senate on Wednesday, June 3, 1998; and
2) consider any member of the committee to be on “official business” if that member is: (a) attending an event or meeting related to the work of the committee; or (b) making a presentation related to the work of the committee; and
That the subcommittee report at the earliest opportunity any decisions taken with respect to the designation of members of the committee travelling on committee business.
Do we have somebody to carry the motion?
Senator Quinn: Agreed.
The Chair: Senator Quinn. Thank you.
I declare the motion carried.
Do we have a mover for motion 9, which is witness expenses?
Thank you, Senator Arnold.
It is moved:
That, pursuant to the Senate guidelines for witness expenses, the committee may reimburse reasonable expenses related to the appearance of one witness per organization upon application, but that the chair be authorized to approve expenses of a second witness from the same organization should there be exceptional circumstances.
Is this motion carried? Do we have a mover, please? Thank you, Senator Arnold again.
I declare the motion carried.
Do we have a mover for motion 10, which is communications?
Senator Dean. Thank you so much.
That the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be empowered — you will notice that I am not reading the right-hand side:
That the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be empowered to direct communications officer(s) assigned to the committee in the development of communications plans and products where appropriate and to request the services of the Senate Communications, Broadcasting and Publications Directorate for the purposes of the promotion of their work; and
That the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be empowered to allow coverage by electronic media of the committee’s public proceedings with the least possible disruption of its proceedings, at its discretion.
Is this motion carried? May we have someone to pass the motion? Senator Cormier, thank you. I declare the motion carried.
Senator Quinn: You were done with that last motion?
I was negligent when we talked about other members of the committee. I should have spoken up and didn’t. That was on item 3.
The Chair: Okay.
Senator Quinn: You said we could wait for the fourth member of the group. The other proposed member is here now. It is Senator Lewis.
The Chair: Okay.
Senator Quinn: I apologize.
Senator Lewis: I am sorry for being late.
The Chair: I have to congratulate you on the excellent game that you played last Saturday when the Saskatchewan Roughriders won. They needed that big offensive lineman to make sure they got the touchdown. If you saw the work this young man did on the kickoff return of 102 yards, it was sensational.
We need to adopt motion 10.
Senator Quinn?
Senator Quinn: Yes.
The Chair: Thank you. I declare the motion carried.
The communication officer assigned to the committee is — I hope I pronounce your name properly — Sabryna Lemieux.
I declare the motion carried.
Ms. Lemieux joined Senate’s Communications, Broadcasting and Publications Directorate in June 2024 and became a communication officer for the Standing Senate Committee on Transport and Communications Directorate during the Forty‑fourth Parliament. She looks forward to returning to the committee this session, drawing on a breadth of work in strategic communications support, supporting policy, public outreach and international diplomacy. Welcome, Ms. Lemieux.
It has been a while since I have done speed reading.
Colleagues, this brings us to other business. The time slots for regular meetings are Tuesdays, 9 a.m. to 11 a.m. Eastern; Wednesdays, 6:45 p.m. to 8:45 p.m. Eastern.
I believe that we covered many of the administration activities outlined in this paper.
[Translation]
As I said earlier, I am sorry for speaking only in English. We will use both official languages, according to the situation. I want to make sure that everyone is comfortable with switching from English to French and vice versa.
[English]
I wish to say that this is a bilingual country and a bilingual group. We will ensure that anyone who speaks the language they want and will understand that and will share the enthusiasm we need for our two official languages.
It was mentioned earlier that considering the time reality and from the position of chair, that it is important — I think — that we take shorter term projects, as opposed to a long-term project.
If we can adapt to that limitation, which I apologize for, but it is the reality of our situation, we can have some fruitful activity and work that we can handle.
I would ask each of you for your ideas. If you could make it a one-pager and send it in to Ms. Mugny, we can get together with our executive committee and move forward, then return and discuss two or three options. My style is to say, “Let’s take three opportunities and hash them out. Then we can pick numbers one, two and three.” I hope that is okay with senators. It is an easier way to have everyone’s input and to ensure we have an outcome we can all work on to get some results from.
Are there any other questions that we need to ask?
Do we have our steering committee formally in place yet? It’s Senator Dasko and who else? Senator Lewis and Senator Wilson. Is that correct? Okay.
The next step before we come back in September is to make sure we communicate effectively. If we could have ideas — sorry, Senator Lewis, please go ahead.
Senator Lewis: There are two things I wanted to clarify. First, in terms of the steering committee, are we accepting that was adopted, or do we need a separate resolution for that?
The Chair: We do not need to have a motion for that.
Senator Lewis: Then the second thing was, in terms of ideas for projects, what kind of time frame should members of the committee be thinking for submitting those?
The Chair: We are back in September. If we were able to group and pick — if we had three options as an example, pick one option as a group to move forward on.
Then, in terms of time frame, realistically, what could we do before Christmas? Then, after Christmas we have another slot for — at least in the reality of the chair position — another three to four months.
Do we want to have a project that is more short-term projects that we can get into and dig at that we would do during the fall period with the objective of coming to some form of conclusion before the Christmas break? Then, as soon as we get back, we’ll have thought about the next opportunity so we can move that forward in late January to April. That gives us three to four months. That would give us two opportunities of three to four months each, which gives us eight months.
Senator Lewis: Maybe I should have been clearer. For the one-pager submission of ideas to the steering committee, by when should members have those put together for the steering committee?
Senator Quinn: I just wanted to follow up on that follow-up.
The Chair: Okay.
Senator Quinn: I would suggest, if I may —
The Chair: Please, go ahead.
Senator Quinn: If we had ideas submitted before the end of July, that allows the steering committee six weeks to have their meetings and discussions to come up with that list of one, two, three. That is what I would suggest.
The Chair: It is important to be off to a running start so we can do something with our support staff and so they can dig for us during the summer. Not to mean that you do not have any summertime off, but it would be great to ensure we get feedback and get some of that feedback back to our members to make decisions and be off and running when we start in the fall.
Senator Quinn: Perhaps, then, mid-July. Then steering can set the tone for us after that review. Get back to us and say here are the topics that allows —
The Chair: What do you think, steering, what is your date?
Senator Quinn: I will revise and say mid-July. That is two or three weeks.
Senator Lewis: I liked that suggestion of the end of July, but —
Senator Quinn: Put the pressure on those fellas.
Senator Lewis: If folks feel there is a time pressure, we could move it up, but I think the end of July gives people time to make sure that what is put forward is thoughtful and considered.
Senator Quinn: And we ask steering to do their work on an expedited fashion so that —
The Chair: Senators thoughts on the end of July? Does it make sense? Do we agree? Sorry, Senator Arnold?
Senator Arnold: I have a question about those ideas. Is there a document that has the parameters of what this committee is about and how those ideas might fit into that?
The Chair: Good question.
Ms. Mugny: We do.
The Chair: Yes. There is a document we can share. We will ensure we get it out to each of the members.
Senator Arnold: Thanks.
The Chair: Senator Quinn, do you have anything else you wanted to talk about?
Senator Quinn: No. Not at all. Maybe football.
The Chair: That is okay. We do not have to talk about that.
Before we adjourn, since we have three more minutes, if you look back in time, there were some projects that came out around 2016-17 that were built on this whole transportation grid and telecommunications throughout the North.
It was a fantastic report. We should get our hands on that for senators to have a look at. That was an extensive project that came out of either the University of Alberta or the University of Calgary.
It was studied. I am not sure anything ever came of it. That is something that is a big project that took a lot of work. It took time.
Of course, you have heard about the high-speed rail projects that VIA Rail has been working on. That is another opportunity. If we want to get someone in from VIA in to get a status of where this high-speed rail project is going, that could be another example of something that is right in front of us and in front of the nation.
One of the concerns I have as a former businessman is that when you say that you are going to do projects, then they have to be completed. The completion success story has not been strong over last few years. We talk about things, but do they get executed and done?
We are at a point now where, whatever we do, we need to finish and come up with something that makes sense, something that will be beneficial to everyone in the Senate. I am not trying to be overaggressive. I’m trying to be practical.
Senator Hay: I wonder if it could be helpful if we could have a listing of the projects that were considered in the last session. I know it ended on dialogue around copper theft and the telecommunication industry. It would be good to know what this committee has done in the last 12 to 24 months. What is closed? What was left open? What should we reopen, in addition to new ideas? That would be helpful, at least for me.
The Chair: Excellent suggestion.
Senator Quinn: Building on that, perhaps the clerk can check. Our last study was, I believe, transited, but it did not go through the cycle. That will have to be tabled from the last Parliament if the group feels that is valid. As a member of the committee previously, I think it was a valid study and we should table it and get it over to the other side.
The Chair: Is there any other input, questions or comments? As I said earlier, the objective is for everyone to have an active participation. This is not two people trying to make things work for everyone. That is not my style at all. The objective is to ensure that each individual makes their contribution and feels good about what they do. Quite simple. It’s a littler harder to put it into practice, but you have to ensure that you do your best.
I look forward to working with all of you. Please feel free to contact me or any of the members on the steering. We should have an open relationship with our steering committee. We are all in this for one thing: To make Canada a better place.
Senator Quinn: I have just received a message that one of our colleagues collapsed in the Senate, Senator Brazeau. Parliamentary Protective Service is there. They have suspended the Senate. What I am trying to say is do not rush back in. There is activity there.
The Chair: Is there another committee meeting in here? Ms. Mugny says our time is up. My wife for 53 years has been telling me that. Thank you.
(The committee adjourned.)