Honourable senators, as a senator from Saskatchewan and Treaty 4 territory, I rise to speak to Senator Cardozo’s inquiry regarding the future of the CBC/Radio-Canada.

The CBC is far more than a public broadcaster. It is Canada’s national public broadcaster, serving Canadians for over 85 years. In many ways, it connects us across our vast and diverse federation. Sadly, there are some who propose to defund this cherished national institution, and I don’t agree with that proposal.

Let us first understand what the CBC truly represents. Canada has a breathtaking geographical expanse, from the rocky shores of Newfoundland to the towering rainforests of B.C., from the windswept Arctic tundra to the majestic Great Lakes, from the golden plains of Saskatchewan to the snowy peaks of Alberta. Across this great country, the CBC serves as a critical communication bridge. Our public broadcaster reaches the most remote corners of our country and connects our Canadian family.

Consider the unique challenges of Canadian media. Where commercial broadcasters see no economic incentive, the CBC steps in and steps up. It provides comprehensive coverage in both official languages and eight Indigenous languages, ensuring that the communities that might otherwise be voiceless have a platform in northern and rural regions.

CBC is not just about entertainment; it’s about survival, connection and cultural preservation. During emergencies, whether a winter storm in Labrador or a wildfire in Yukon, the CBC becomes essential infrastructure. When cell networks fail, CBC radio waves continue to carry vital information, potentially saving lives.

But the CBC’s importance extends far beyond emergency communication; it is a cultural cornerstone. As the largest commissioner of original Canadian content, it drives our creative sector. Think of the classic CBC shows over the years: “The Beachcombers,” “Road to Avonlea,” “Street Legal,” “North of 60,” “The Nature of Things,” “Schitt’s Creek,” “Kim’s Convenience” and “Heartland.” Without the CBC, would these stories have been told?

On CBC Radio One, think of “As It Happens,” “The Current,” “Cross Country Checkup,” “Quirks & Quarks,” “Q,” “Unreserved,” “Reclaimed” and “Massey Lectures.”

On Radio-Canada, think of a show that has no comparison, like “Tout le monde en parle.” Consider the importance of a CBC political comedy to Canadians over the years. On “Royal Canadian Air Farce” every New Year’s Eve, the chicken cannon blasted politicians of all stripes with equal-opportunity satire, not to mention disgusting goo.

Rick Mercer’s reign on CBC makes Charles our country’s second king in recent years. Out of Halifax, “This Hour Has 22 Minutes” is currently experiencing a golden age, with Chris Wilson impersonating both Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and the Honourable Pierre Poilievre.

The CBC’s annual budget of $1.8 billion anchors an information and creative economy, contributing $72.9 billion to our economy and providing jobs for at least 630,000 Canadians in large and small communities alike.

Defunding the CBC would be a mistake. It would create an irreplaceable void in our national communication ecosystem and our Canadian soul. Perhaps what should be considered is a turnaround recovery strategy. Critics argue that CBC should only do what private media won’t. This market-failure view fundamentally misunderstands the purpose of public broadcasting. While private media aims to generate profit, public broadcasters serve the public good. The CBC doesn’t just fill gaps; it creates a shared national experience.

Consider how the CBC connects us: a farmer in Manitoba, a hunter in Nunavut, an artist in Montreal, a lobster fisherman in P.E.I. — and if Senator Cotter were here, I would let him know that they do ship live lobsters — and a Starbucks customer in Toronto. Through CBC programming, they all discover what we have in common as Canadians, including our Charter values and sense of humour. They hear stories reflecting their experiences while gaining insights into the lives of their fellow Canadians. “Still Standing” is a comedy and reality series that travels across Canada to discover the hidden gems, rich heritage and culture in small towns.

Internationally, through Radio Canada International, the CBC serves as a bridge to the world. It connects Canadians abroad, promotes our culture globally and helps attract talent and investment to our country.

Philosopher John Ralston Saul aptly notes that the public broadcaster remains one of the most important remaining levers that a nation state has to communicate with itself. In an era of increasing media fragmentation, misinformation, conspiracy theories — and worse, disinformation — the CBC stands as a trusted source of reliable, fact-based reporting.

Does this mean the CBC is perfect? No. It faces significant challenges: funding constraints, technological disruption and changing media-consumption habits. Canada’s media industry, with CBC as a dominant player, is currently grappling with an increasing trust deficit. According to Reuters Institute, trust in media has reached its lowest point in seven years. Moreover, research from spark*advocacy in April revealed that 45% of Canadians support the idea of shutting down the CBC to save taxpayer dollars. Even more troubling, 40% believe that CBC News functions as propaganda, with younger Canadians more likely than older generations to share this perception.

CBC’s audience metrics add to this picture of declining trust and engagement. The broadcaster’s own third-quarter report for 2022-23 highlighted that CBC television underperformed against its targets as viewership and total audiences fell. Similarly, CBC Radio’s digital reach, digital engagement, visits to children’s content and regional digital news engagement all failed to meet targets. These declines indicate broader challenges in retaining and growing audiences in an increasingly fragmented media landscape.

An even more alarming trend is the hostility that CBC journalists face, both online and in person. The ombudsman’s annual report for 2021-22 described this year as the most contentious on record, with complaints soaring by 60% compared to the previous year. The tone and intensity of these complaints have become increasingly vitriolic, underscoring the fraught relationship between the public and the national broadcaster.

These trends beg the question: What has gone wrong? Among the most common criticisms is the perception of political bias. Many Canadians believe that the CBC has become a mouthpiece for the Liberal government, which undermines its fairness and independence. Addressing these concerns will require greater transparency, particularly in how the CBC interacts with the government and manages its resources. By openly reporting on its inner workings, including programming decisions and spending, the CBC could rebuild public confidence.

Another significant issue is groupthink within the CBC. Critics argue that the broadcaster exhibits a left-leaning bias which stems from a lack of diversity in backgrounds and opinions across its workforce. With many people coming from urban, university-educated and progressive political circles, newsrooms risk becoming echo chambers that fail to reflect Canada’s diverse viewpoints.

This dynamic is compounded by labour practices. According to a Toronto Metropolitan University review, CBC employs over 2,000 temporary or contract workers daily, roughly a quarter of its workforce. This reliance on precarious labour creates financial instability which discourages dissenting voices, stifles journalistic integrity and weakens democracy.

Despite these challenges, CBC’s problems are not insurmountable. They demand a robust, turnaround-recovery strategy to take a good look around, focus on self-reflection and strategic reform, including meaningful responsiveness to any valid criticism.

I strongly believe that defunding is not the answer. There are many external and internal issues that need to be assessed. They need to build on CBC’s strengths, cultivate its competitive advantages, reinvest in themselves and make deep transformation.

While the immediate economic threats to Canadian media were temporarily mitigated by the passage of the Online Streaming Act and Online News Act, structural changes remain. Broadcasters continue to face financial losses and producers are seeing significant reductions in Canadian content commissions. Even if the industry stabilizes, the economics of Canada’s small market often prioritize culturally generic programming aimed at an international audience rather than programming that reflects the country’s rich diversity and tells our Canadian stories.

Perhaps the greatest threat to CBC is not political or economic, but a lack of understanding about its broader purpose. Public broadcasting should be recognized as a service for the public good, not merely as a gap filler where private media falls short. If we fail to champion a vision, the conversation about CBC’s future risks being dominated by private media interests which may not prioritize the public good. Strategic reform and a renewed focus on CBC’s core strengths and marketplace advantages could ensure its relevance and value to all Canadians.

We need a CBC that continually adapts with more transparent budget allocation, enhanced digital platforms and a refined mandate that maintains its core public service mission. Every dollar invested in the CBC generates two dollars back to the economy, particularly in regions that the commercial media would never serve.

Funding culture is not a luxury. It is a necessity for nation building and the vibrancy of our connections to each other as Canadians.

Great countries invest in institutions that preserve their performing arts, stories, languages and values — just look around Europe. The CBC is an investment in Canada’s future and is a distinct and unique identity, including with the ever-present influence of our good friends to the south.

To those who would defund the CBC, I say this: You would be dismantling a critical piece of our national infrastructure and our identity. It is fundamental to our federation.

Ultimately, the future of our public broadcaster is up to Canadians. But as patriotic Canadians in this chamber, let’s do our part to ensure the future is bright and our pride is storied and inspiring. Instead of defunding, let’s choose to defend, reform and strengthen the CBC to ensure it continues to inform, enlighten and unite Canadians for generations to come.

Our tax dollars should be on a robust turnaround strategy, not defunding and the fire-selling of lands, buildings and equipment to private equity investors to economically repurpose for a lesser purpose.

Thank you, and hiy kitatamîhin.

Would the senator take a question?

Yes, I would, considering it was the Transport and Communications Committee that gave the edge to the media yesterday.

Thank you, Senator Klyne, for sharing your thoughts on this subject matter.

It turns out our Standing Senate Committee on Transport and Communications is doing a short study right now on the CBC and regional services. What we have discovered thus far in the review is that when it comes to providing regional services — and I agree, it is probably the most critical mandate of the CBC — they have fallen short over the past decade. They’ve been reducing budgets, cutting services when it comes to regional services, minority language services and so on and so forth to the detriment of their licensing act of the Broadcasting Act.

One of the questions is: How do you square that circle where the CBC, for the last decade or more, has been reducing services and making cutbacks when that’s supposed to be one of their core mandates?

The second question is: If you look at the CBC, trust is down and ratings are at an historic low, which means taxpayers are not watching this public broadcaster. The only things that are up are their budget, consistently over nine and a half years, and executive bonuses.

When they have lost the public trust and ratings are at such an historic low level, how can we justify to taxpayers $1.4 billion of subsidies year in and year out?

Senator Klyne, you only have 15 seconds left. Would you like to ask for extra time to answer the question?

I would love that. Three minutes.

Is leave granted, honourable senators?

We lost three minutes with Senator Housakos repeating just about everything I said in there. I agree there are losses. You talked about many losses. They have lost the plot; they need to get back to their purpose. They need to look at the shareholders’ values, attitudes and beliefs. They need to figure out who their audiences are and what their audiences want, and they need to build on their strengths and cultivate their competitive advantages.

They need to look at all the external issues they are plotting against or that they have to work against because that’s where they will identify the threats and opportunities. They need to look at internal issues to find where their strengths and weaknesses are.

They need to come up with strategies based on all that analysis, and come up with a breakthrough strategy. That will come through a recovery turnaround strategy. I have every confidence that would happen. Through that, there has to be a lot of communication at all levels.

Through that, they will lose some jobs. They will gain some audiences. I would think they would know their audiences better than anybody else. If somebody wants to reach a certain age, a certain demographic, they will say, “We have just the show for you and this is where you place your advertising.” That’s all I have to say.

Senator Klyne would have to ask leave for another question and answer. Senator Klyne, are you asking for leave?

A short question gets a short answer.

Honourable senators, do you agree to give leave for another question and answer for Senator Klyne?

We hear a “no,” so leave is denied.

Thank you, Senator Klyne, for your comments about the CBC. I’m going to talk primarily about Radio-Canada.

Honourable senators, I rise this evening to speak about CBC/Radio-Canada. I think it’s important to maintain and fund this public broadcaster, in both English and French, but as I said, I’m going to talk mainly about Radio-Canada. I worked at Radio-Canada for a few years as a program producer for Nova Scotia. I also produced a few national radio programs and worked as a journalist for the CBC and Radio-Canada.

Radio-Canada and its English-language counterpart, the CBC, as national broadcasters, have played a crucial role in connecting, informing and uniting Canadians and their diverse cultures. This role is particularly pronounced in rural communities and among linguistic minorities, where they have served as both an essential source of information and a hub for cultural and identity transmission.

Radio-Canada has long held a central place in Canadian homes. For decades, Radio-Canada was more than just a collection of programs. It was an institution that nurtured a sense of belonging to our country, Canada. It was how French-speaking parts of other provinces got to know Quebec, and it introduced those places to Quebec.

Who didn’t listen to or watch “La soirée du hockey,” which brought together French-speaking and English-speaking families from all over the country? Father Charles Aucoin of Chéticamp used to watch “La soirée du hockey” on TV, but he would listen to it in English on CBC radio because he liked that sportscaster better. We weren’t related, though we might have been sixth or seventh cousins. It was an important ritual for minority communities across the country.

Radio-Canada also represents decades of programming that has had a positive impact on children’s lives by positively influencing their development. Programs like “Sol et Gobelet,” “La Ribouldingue,” “Passe-Partout” and “Bouledogue Bazar” have helped children learn, grow, develop and become more observant, creative and curious. In fact, Radio-Canada continues to set new records with its children’s content. Of course we have a sense of nostalgia for the childhood classics, but Radio-Canada’s line-up for children continues to provide hours of education and fun for kids of all ages.

From the 1960s to the 1990s, shows such as “Les belles histoires des pays d’en haut,” “Le temps d’une paix” and “Les filles de Caleb” brought high-quality cultural programming into homes, highlighting the richness of our past for all Canadians. More recently, programs like “Belle-Baie,” “Le monde de Gabrielle Roy” and “Tout le monde en parle” have shared the history of Acadia and Manitoba with a new audience.

These and other shows remain essential because they reflect Canadian stories, told by Canadians, for Canadians. They highlight local issues and stories that might otherwise have been overshadowed by the international media. In a country as vast as Canada, this is a considerable achievement.

For rural communities, Radio-Canada was indispensable. This broadcaster was a source of news, weather forecasts and emergency information. In isolated areas with limited access to newspapers and other media, Radio-Canada’s radio stations were often the only French-language broadcaster and the only source of news in French. Even more importantly for a community like Chéticamp, it was the only French-language media outlet other than the weekly newspaper Le Courrier before the arrival of Radio-Canada in 1963, until the community radio station CKJM was created in 1995.

In addition to providing news coverage, Radio-Canada has been a channel for cultural expression in rural areas, showcasing local artists, musicians, writers and storytellers. Radio-Canada is a platform for voices that might otherwise be ignored, such as Édith Butler, Carmen Campagne, La Sagouine and Fred Pellerin, who are known from coast to coast. Who hasn’t heard of Lisa LeBlanc, Jacques Surette or Wilfred LeBouthillier, to name but a few?

Radio-Canada plays a very important role in official language minority communities across Canada, a role that shouldn’t be underestimated. For francophone populations outside Quebec — from small Acadian villages in Nova Scotia to francophone enclaves in northern Ontario and francophone communities in Manitoba and Alberta — Radio-Canada has been a cultural cornerstone. Official language minority communities often face unique challenges, such as isolation and the risk of assimilation. Radio-Canada offers a vital link to the wider world, providing high-quality news, entertainment and cultural programs in their mother tongue. This connection helps maintain their linguistic identity and cultural heritage.

For the Acadian communities, Radio-Canada has been a beacon of light, telling the story of their struggles, celebrating their successes and preserving their rich traditions. Shows such as “Téléjournal Acadie,” “Pour l’amour du country,” “Coup d’œil” and “Le feu roulant” ensure or ensured that local stories are told and that Acadians see their lives reflected on the screen. In addition to the news, Radio-Canada has bolstered Acadians’ cultural pride through shows that celebrate French-language music, literature and theatre. This support has been essential in keeping the French language alive in regions where it might otherwise fade away.

Even though they are in favour of Radio-Canada as a public broadcaster, some observers note that official language minority communities hope to play a bigger part of Radio-Canada’s programming. During CBC/Radio-Canada’s licence renewal hearings in 2020, the Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada floated the idea of Radio-Canada establishing a second national francophone production centre outside Quebec.

Martin Théberge, President of the Société nationale de l’Acadie, went even further during his appearance at the Standing Senate Committee on Transport and Communications, which is currently studying the local services provided by CBC/Radio-Canada:

Can it truly be said that, with such centralization, Radio-Canada can promote the francophone minority and help it grow? . . .

To make that happen, we must not only delocalize programs, but also decentralize the teams. National programs must be able to count on producers, researchers and other team members who are permanently stationed here and there across the country and who could thus contribute every day or every week to developing programming.

Tony Cornect, President of the Fédération des francophones de Terre-Neuve et du Labrador, who also appeared before the committee, said that the Moncton office in Atlantic Canada could be more diverse.

For rural and official language minority communities, the digital age can be both an advantage and a disadvantage. Despite everything, Radio-Canada must continue to innovate while ensuring that its content is accessible, not only through conventional means, such as radio and television, but also through online platforms and social media. That way, it can reach the younger generations and remain relevant in an ever-changing media environment.

In closing, Radio-Canada is much more than a mere broadcaster. It is a national institution that embodies the spirit of Canada. Despite its shortcomings, it is essential for the country’s official language minority communities to be able to use and appreciate it. The broadcaster must reflect Canada’s diversity and must therefore be more decentralized. Under no circumstances should it be abolished.

Thank you. Meegwetch.

Thank you, Senator Aucoin, for taking a question, and thank you for your speech. You talked about shows that have been on the CBC in the past. I heard you and Senator Klyne talk about “The Beachcombers,” which began in 1972. You talked about a lot of shows, but they are all in the past tense. There were many shows that I have never heard of, but I looked them up as you were speaking, and they are all in the past tense.

As things like the CBC evolve, as viewers’ tastes evolve and as technology evolves for how viewers watch their entertainment, whether it’s on cable television, streaming services or their phones, can you explain — and this is not a question about the Acadian or francophone shows that you watch, because I really don’t know about those — how the CBC can remain current and maintain the massive input of $1.4 billion and rising of Canadian taxpayer dollars when the viewership is so low and when Canadians, especially young Canadians, are getting their media from sources other than television?

I have nothing to say about the CBC. Thank you.

I have another question for Senator Aucoin. Was his speech about the CBC? The CBC and Radio-Canada are of the same budget, so my question stands.

Thank you, Senator Wells. I think that the CBC and Radio-Canada have separate budgets and different management. Yes, they are part of the same overall entity with a single management structure, but they are administered through separate budgets. I talked a lot about programs from the past, but I also talked about recent or current programs. Thank you.