QUESTION PERIOD — Ministry of Indigenous Services—Federal Economic Development Agency for Northern Ontario
Devolution of Responsibility
November 24, 2022
Welcome, minister.
In 2015, Indigenous and Northern Affairs Canada — which was the full ministry before it was split in two — had just over 4,500 full-time employees. Over the last five years, your government has worked tirelessly to devolve responsibility of Indigenous matters to Indigenous governments. All the while, there has been a rapid increase in full-time employees in your department over recent years. As of this year, there are 8,800 full-time employees working in Indigenous ministries, and your department employs around 6,800. Before you mention this, I was aware that 1,400 employees were transferred into the Indigenous ministries from Health Canada. We have to take those out. It isn’t just 4,500 to 8,800; there are 1,400 that need to be taken out. However, with the 1,400, it still doesn’t explain the year-over-year growth.
Senator Tannas, my apologies, but your time has expired.
Minister, would you like to respond?
Thank you, Your Honour. I think I understand the general direction of the question, and it’s a question that I have recently asked of the department.
In fact, the finance minister’s instructions to ministers is to look for reductions in expenditures by departments — reductions that are not directly related to outcomes. This is a hard thing for a minister to understand because it is a delicate balance.
We were talking about status cards a few moments ago. This is a space where we need more people in order to efficiently process the volume of renewals that are on people’s desks right now. As I mentioned to the honourable senator, there may be ways to increase efficiency using a digital approach.
There are also employees in the department who are providing direct services. We are hiring more nurses, for example, and we would not want to in any way undermine the day-to-day functioning of communities by removing people who are essential to supporting First Nations.
The question is around program planning, and that is where it becomes difficult for ministers to understand because if we reduce capacity, it will reduce the ability for the government to deliver on its agenda.
I have a lovely new deputy minister, Gina Wilson. Many of you will have met her in your travels. I am confident that she is doing the analysis right now to make sure that where we decide to reduce our numbers of public servants, it does not in any way undermine the capacity of the department to deliver.
Finally, I want to thank the hard-working members of Indigenous Services Canada, especially over the last two years during a pandemic when we had extraordinary demands placed on the department from a variety of urgent situations. They really rose to the occasion.
I’m sorry, minister, but your time has expired.
