Honourable senators, my question is for the Leader of the Government in the Senate. Senator Harder, in response to the question I asked you last week, you responded that your proposal for changing the Senate is yours and yours alone, and it does not represent the view of the Trudeau government. Senator Harder, let's get real. Your discussion paper proposing to stifle opposition and thwart democracy in the Senate was released one month after the Trudeau government released a discussion paper proposing to stifle opposition and thwart democracy in the House of Commons. Coincidence? I don't think so.

Senator Harder, you are the Trudeau government's leader in the Senate. You style yourself as the government's representative. In that role, you are supposed to represent the Senate's views to the government and the government's agenda to the Senate. Yet you persist with the charade that on an issue critical to Canadian parliamentary democracy, you are not receiving direction on this issue from the Trudeau government but instead these are your own musings. Since you agreed last week that it would be easier if you just answered our questions, let me pose a few I would like answered.

In the last six months, how many times have you met with Prime Minister Trudeau? How many times have you met with his stand-in, Gerry Butts? How many times have you met with anyone in the Prime Minister's Office?

Hon. Peter Harder (Government Representative in the Senate): Without accepting the premise of the question, I simply want to restate as I have on several occasions that I deal with the government representatives, including the Prime Minister, as appropriate, and I do not speak to the frequency or the content of my advice.

With regard to the paper that I tabled, the paper itself references and acknowledges that this is but one contribution to a discussion I hope we can have both formally and informally because I do believe — and I believe there is broad support in the Senate Chamber itself — that we need to modernize our behaviour.

Senator Batters: With responses like that, we might be better served trying to get answers out of one of those cardboard cut-outs of the Prime Minister.

Senator Harder, what do you think your job is? You are not just an email inbox for the Trudeau government. You receive the title, the salary and the $1.5 million office budget of the Leader of the Government in the Senate. For that position, you are sworn into the Privy Council and you are supposed to be attending cabinet committees. You will know all of those benefits come with responsibilities. You sit in that chair to represent the views of the Trudeau government to the Senate and the views and positions of the Senate to the Trudeau government. You do not sit in that chair to provide us with a 20-page discussion paper composed of your own personal musings.

The Trudeau government has made political choices concerning the Senate and now those choices are failing. They, and you, are attempting to dodge responsibility for it. This is a mess wholly of the Trudeau government's making, under your direction as the former Trudeau government transition head. You obfuscate, you duck and you delay, Senator Harder. You do everything but answer for the Trudeau government in this place, the very thing you are mandated to do as the Leader of the Government in the Senate.

But because hope springs eternal, I will give you one more chance to enlighten us. Who is pulling the strings over there? How many times have you discussed your discussion paper with the Prime Minister, Gerry Butts or anyone else in the PMO?

Senator Harder: I really don't know how to respond to the vitriol implicit in the question. It is my hope that we as an institution can adopt a less partisan, more independent and deliberate approach to our work, That is the objective I seek to exercise in all my responsibility in this chamber and work with all senators to achieve.

Some Hon. Senators: Hear, hear!