Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Banking, Trade and
Commerce
Issue 1 - Evidence for November 18, 1999
OTTAWA, Thursday, November 18, 1999
The Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Trade and Commerce met this day at 11:00 a.m. to organize the activities of the committee.
[English]
Mr. Gary Levy, Clerk of the Committee: Honourable senators, I see a quorum. It is my duty, as clerk of the committee, to preside over the election of the chairman of the Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Trade and Commerce, and I am prepared to receive nominations to that effect.
Senator Hervieux-Payette: I nominate Senator Kolber.
Mr. Levy: Senator Hervieux-Payette has moved that Senator Kolber be chairman of the Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Trade and Commerce. Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
Mr. Levy: I invite Senator Kolber to take the Chair.
Senator E. Leo Kolber (Chairman) in the Chair.
The Chairman: Thank you, senators.
I will accept nominations for deputy chairman of the Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Trade and Commerce.
Senator Kelleher: I move that Senator Tkachuk be deputy chairman.
The Chairman: There being no other nominations, is it agreed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Carried. Congratulations, Senator Tkachuk.
I would entertain the following motion:
That the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be composed of the Chair and Deputy Chair and one other member of the committee to be designated after the usual consultations.
Senator Oliver: I so move.
The Chairman: Is it your pleasure to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Carried.
Senator Meighen: Mr. Chairman, I move:
That the committee print 500 copies of its Proceedings and that the Chair be authorized to adjust this number to meet demand.
The Chairman: Is it agreed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Carried.
Senator Kelleher: Mr. Chairman, I move:
That, pursuant to rule 89, the Chair be authorized to hold meetings, to receive and authorize the printing of the evidence when a quorum is not present, provided that a representative of the government and a representative of the opposition are present.
The Chairman: Is it agreed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Carried.
Senator Tkachuk: I move:
That, pursuant to rule 104, the Chair be authorized to report expenses incurred by the committee during the last session.
The Chairman: Is it agreed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Carried.
Senator Meighen: Mr. Chairman, I move:
That the committee ask the Library of Parliament to assign research officers to the committee;
That the Chair be authorized to seek authority from the Senate to engage the services of such counsel and technical, clerical and other personnel as may be necessary for the purpose of the committee's examination and consideration of such bills, subject-matters of bills and estimates as are referred to it;
That the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be authorized to retain the services of such experts as may be required by the work of the committee; and
That the Chair, on behalf of the committee, direct the research staff in the preparation of studies, analyses, summaries and draft reports.
The Chairman: Is it agreed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Carried.
Senator Hervieux-Payette: Mr. Chairman, I move:
That, pursuant to section 32 of the Financial Administration Act, authority to commit funds be conferred on the Chair or in the Chair's absence, the Deputy Chair; and
That, pursuant to section 34 of the Financial Administration Act, and Guideline 3:05 of the Appendix II of the rules of the Senate, authority for certifying accounts payable by the committee be conferred individually on the Chair, the Deputy Chair, and the Clerk of the Committee.
The Chairman: Is it agreed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Carried.
I would entertain the following motion:
That the committee empower the Chair to designate, as required, one or more members of the committee and/or such staff as may be necessary to travel on assignment on behalf of the committee; and
That the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be authorized to:
1) determine whether any member of the Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Trade and Commerce is on "official business" for the purposes of paragraph 8(3)(a) of the Senators Attendance Policy, published in the Journals of the Senate on Wednesday, June 3, 1998; and
2) consider any member of the Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Trade and Commerce to be on "official business" if that member is: (a) attending a function, event or meeting related to the work of the committee; or (b) making a presentation related to the work of the committee.
Senator Meighen: I so move.
The Chairman: Is it agreed, honourable senators?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Carried.
Senator Hervieux-Payette: Mr. Chairman, I move:
That, pursuant to the Senate guidelines for witnesses' expenses, the committee may reimburse reasonable travelling and living expenses for one witness from any one organization and payment will take place upon application, but that the Chair be authorized to approve expenses for a second witness should there be exceptional circumstances.
The Chairman: Is it agreed, honourable senators?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Carried.
Senator Oliver: I move:
That the Chair be authorized to seek permission from the Senate to permit coverage by electronic media of its public proceedings with the least possible disruption of its hearings; and
That the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be empowered to allow such coverage at its discretion.
Senator Tkachuk: I have a question on that. Does that mean that television coverage would be allowed unless we say otherwise, or is it the other way around? When Senator Kirby was chairman, I was never sure when it was going to happen.
The Chairman: How you would like it to happen?
Senator Tkachuk: I would like television coverage of every public hearing. I think that, unless it is a private meeting, it should be televised.
The Chairman: Is that sentiment shared by all other members present?
There being general consensus, we will take that to be a basic principle and proceed accordingly.
Mr. Levy: Several committees meet at the same time, so the media crews choose which committee hearings they want to film. We are constrained in that respect.
Senator Tkachuk: I understand that, but we should always let them know what we are studying and then, if they find our study more interesting than the others, they will televise our hearing rather than another one.
The Chairman: Is it agreed, honourable senators?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Carried.
Is it agreed that the meeting times for the committee be Wednesdays from 3:30 p.m. to 5:30 p.m. and Thursdays from 11:00 a.m. to 1:00 p.m.?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: It has been suggested to me by one of our members that it may be more convenient, when possible, to have our meetings in the Centre Block. However, if we want our hearings to be televised, we must meet in this room. Other committees have booked the other rooms that are appropriate for television.
Therefore, as my first official decision, I will say that we will meet here.
Senator Hervieux-Payette wishes to address a matter.
Senator Hervieux-Payette: Bill S-3 deals with non-controversial tax treaties. It implements treaties with two new countries that were part of the former U.S.S.R. that are currently subject to double taxation. The changes affect Kyrgyzstan, Lebanon, Algeria, Bulgaria, Portugal, Uzbekistan and Jordan, and there are modifications for Luxembourg and Japan. We would miss one year of these conventions if the bill is not passed by November 30. I thought the bill would be before us this morning and that we could give it our blessing, as there is no controversy surrounding the passage of the bill. The bill simply ensures that there is no double taxation on investment in these countries. With the passage of this bill we will have tax treaties with 65 countries.
Senator Oliver: The bill is not yet before us.
Senator Hervieux-Payette: Yes. I thought the speeches at second reading would have been made and it would have been referred to this committee. There has been no delay on the part of the government. In order to refer the bill, the Senate had to sit, but the chamber has just resumed its sittings.
This is a very important bill.
Senator Kinsella, can your side deal with second reading as soon as possible in order that, at our first meeting on Wednesday of next week, we could deal with it and report it back?
Senator Kinsella: I believe that second reading was moved by Senator Hervieux-Payette on Tuesday. If memory serves me correctly, Senator Lynch-Staunton took the adjournment. Yesterday was supposed to be a short day. Although it was not, Senator Lynch-Staunton did not speak to the bill because it was supposed to be a short day.
Perhaps, Senator Hervieux-Payette, as the sponsor of the bill you should speak to Senator Lynch-Staunton, who is the critic.
Senator Hervieux-Payette: If I speak to him today, perhaps this could be dealt with on Tuesday of next week in order that it could be referred to us at our next sitting.
The Chairman: I would like to start the discussion of the future business of the committee.
Senator Oliver: Could you explain why Bill C-6 is not being referred to the Banking Committee? In the past, as you know, this committee did a study of electronic commerce. Indeed, the study is half done. When Senator Kirby was chairman, there was talk of continuing that study. Bill C-6 deals with electronic commerce. I will be speaking to it this afternoon, and I will deal specifically with the electronic commerce components of it.
Since we are already seized with a study of that issue, why is it not being referred to the Banking Committee?
The Chairman: I do not know. I believe the government decides where it goes.
Senator Meighen: No, it is Senator Kirby's call.
Senator Hervieux-Payette: Perhaps we should inquire where it is being dealt with in the other place. If it is being dealt with by their committee that deals with matters of industry and commerce, the same should be done here.
The Chairman: I will instruct the clerk to find out exactly where it stands and to report back to us.
Senator Kinsella: Maybe one part should go to this committee and the other part to another committee.
The Chairman: We will find out. We will let you know on Wednesday what we discover.
Shall we continue in camera to discuss future business of the committee?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The committee continued in camera.