Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
National Security and Defence
Issue 9 - Evidence, February 3, 2003
OTTAWA, Monday, February 3, 2003
The Standing Senate Committee on National Security and Defence met this day at 2:10 p.m. to examine and report on the need for a national security policy for Canada.
Senator Colin Kenny (Chairman) in the Chair.
[English]
The Chairman: Good afternoon, I call this meeting of the Standing Senate Committee on National Security and Defence to order. Today we continue our study on the need for a national security policy by focusing on the role of first responders. My name is Colin Kenny, I am a senator from Ontario and I serve as chair of this committee.
With me today is our deputy chair, the distinguished senator from Nova Scotia, Senator Michael Forrestall. He served the constituents of Dartmouth as their member of the House of Commons for 25 years. For the past 12 years he has been their senator. Throughout his parliamentary career he has followed defence matters, serving on various parliamentary committees, including the 1993 Special Joint Committee on the Future of the Canadian Forces, as well as representing Canada at NATO Parliamentary Assembly meetings.
Senator Joseph Day, who is from New Brunswick, is a graduate in electrical engineering from the Royal Military College in Kingston and a lawyer. Prior to his appointment to the Senate in 2001, he had a successful career as a private practice attorney in the areas of patent and trademark law and intellectual property issues. Senator Day is Deputy Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on National Finance. Currently, that committee is looking at the financial framework for federally funded arm's-length foundations. He is also a member of the Standing Senate Committee on Transport and Communications, a committee that is just starting a study on the current state of media industries.
Senator Norman Atkins is from Ontario. He came to the Senate in 1986 with a strong background in the field of communications. He has also served as an adviser to former Premier Davis of Ontario. A graduate in economics from Acadia University in Wolfville, Nova Scotia, he received an honorary doctorate in civil law from that institution in 2000.
During his time as a senator, he has championed the cause of Canadian merchant navy veterans and is a member of our Subcommittee on Veterans Affairs. Currently, he serves as Chair of the Senate Conservative caucus. He is also Deputy Chair of the Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration.
On my far right is Senator Tommy Banks. Senator Banks is well known to Canadians as one of our most accomplished and versatile entertainers, an international standard-bearer for Canadian culture. From 1968-83, he was host of The Tommy Banks Show. He has also served as guest conductor with symphony orchestras throughout Canada and the United States. He is Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on Energy, the Environment and Natural Resources. Currently, that committee is studying the Nuclear Safety and Control Act.
Our committee is the first permanent Senate committee with a mandate to study the subjects of security and defence. Over the past 18 months we have completed a number of studies. After a seven-month period looking at major issues facing Canada, we produced in February 2002 a report entitled: ``Canadian Security and Military Preparedness.''
The Senate then asked our committee to examine the need for a national security policy. Thus far, we have released three reports on various aspects of national security. The first is entitled, ``Defence of North America: A Canadian Responsibility,'' published in September 2002. The second, ``For an extra 130 Bucks ...Update on Canada's Military Financial Crisis, A View from the Bottom Up,'' was published in November 2002. The most recent one, entitled, ``The Myth of Security at Canada's Airports,'' was published last month, January 2003.
Today we continue our work on the study of national security by focusing on first responders. In times of national emergencies or disasters we look to you to respond quickly and effectively. We look forward to hearing from the Chief Medical Officer of the City of Ottawa about this city's plans for dealing with emergencies and the relationship with officials at other levels of government, especially the federal Office of Critical Infrastructure Protection and Emergency Preparedness.
Dr. Cushman, on behalf of the committee, I should like to welcome you.
Dr. Robert Cushman, Chief Medical Officer, City of Ottawa: Honourable senators, I wish to thank you for taking the time to look at this major issue. Two years ago, in October or November, after the 9/11 crisis, I found myself down here sorting out an anthrax hoax problem. Luckily, it did turn out to be a hoax, which took place in the basement of the building. However, it was certainly a learning exercise for us. We were prepared in this city. In fact, we had ordered medications before that day. We also formed a group that I will tell you about. We were prepared, but you can never be too prepared. We have had a fair amount of experience since then. I can share that with you in terms of what I think our needs are and where I think you can help us at the municipal level, but also help our common constituency, the citizens of Canada.
[Translation]
I would like to tell you about emergency preparedness and the challenges facing us in the City of Ottawa.
[English]
I think it is fair to say that bioterrorism introduced a new chapter for us. These threats deal with ancient diseases that have not been seen for a long time. In terms of the cohort of health professionals with which you are dealing, there was no real hand's-on experience. Certainly, the closest I had come to some of these diseases was back in the 1970s at an African mission hospital. You can see how there was some work to be done.
Second, as we look at the biological, nuclear and chemical threats, you will see, as I work through my presentation, that it is very different. In fact, it really is very much of a traditional public health role. While we needed to refresh our memories or learn something about these ancient diseases, it was something that we had dealt with for a while.
As for a definition, this is definitely intended to produce disease in a susceptible population, whether through bacteria, parasites, viruses or toxins produced by those three.
In the case of the Tokyo subway event and the sarin gas, if you could get out of the subway the chances are that you would live. It was an immediate response. The effects were all seen and the damage done within 24 hours. If you could get away from the site, the chances are that you would survive and do well. In those particular situations, it is often combined with an explosive agent. Regrettably, these items are cheap and easy to acquire and to discharge.
Biological agents are much more complicated, as honourable senators will be aware. As you know, smallpox is a disease that we hoped to have eradicated from the face of the earth. However, there are certain sets of this material around. It involves clandestine procurement, a silent release where no one really knows what is happening, and then a delayed onset. What can start very small can end up being very big. You get an epidemic in the general population. It is extremely different.
What we see mostly in this particular environment are the so-called ``powders.'' In fact, we are not sure what we are dealing with. It is only when we have had the lab testing done that we know.
Some of the other diseases, apart from smallpox, include anthrax, botulism, plague, tularemia and hemorrhagic fevers. They vary somewhat, in that their use and procurement are different. Some are definitely unavailable, or should be unavailable. Again, they are acquired through clandestine means and the way they affect the public is very different.
For instance, with smallpox, the chances of additional infection are very high. These diseases are easily spread from person to person. They have a high mortality rate. There is definitely public panic and fear and special attention to public health preparedness is required.
If honourable senators will look at the biological threats, risks and challenges, certainly there are no guarantees and there are endless possibilities. There is so little experience out there that each is a new case in and of itself. Honourable senators may remember the story from Connecticut about an elderly woman who died. There were hypotheses as to whether there was a general outdoor airborne spread or it was spread through the postal system.
There are many unknowns. Our biggest problem is dealing with the media attention devoted to these issues. In that regard we need only look to the intense coverage we are getting from CNN and other news shows about the recent tragedy over Texas. Certainly, the media will focus in on these events, which is hard to manage. There is a low probability of attack. However, the biggest challenge is we have not really seen this before. Thus, we have to take each case individually.
What is happening in Ottawa? We have long recognized, for some five to ten years now, that as the nation's capital, with government buildings, embassies and other businesses, we are probably more at risk. Some four or five years ago we took measures to look at this. We were quite well prepared when September 11 came.
Interestingly enough, I thought we had had quite a few anthrax hoaxes in this community. In fact, there were some 50 of them. However, if you look at the statistics in the comparative populations, we had no more per capita than Toronto. When you look around, you see that it is happening everywhere. Then again, there are some high-security targets here.
I have provided honourable senators with a model. Prior to taking my seat here someone said to me, ``It used to be just nuclear and biochemical. How come it is so complicated?'' What you are seeing here is our team. It is the National Capital Chemical, Biological, Radiological and Nuclear Health Planning Team. That is one big mouthful, but that is what they call themselves. The radioactive element has been added to the nuclear.
We have HazMat, the hazardous materials team, which is run by the fire department. These are the trucks that go to these sites. We work with police, hospital emergency services, paramedics, emergency medical services and public health. We have had more experience than we want to tell you about. We have been host to the G-20 meetings and the G-7 summit demonstrations. I guess you could say practice makes perfect, and we have had a lot of practice. Luckily, to date, we have not had a true event.
I might add that this is the team that was in this particular building in November or late October of a year and a half ago, sorting it out. We are very fortunate in this town to be large enough town to have a critical mass, and small enough that we know everyone. I was working very closely with the head of emergency at the Ottawa Hospital and the paramedics in terms of how we sorted this out.
As I said, since September 11, we have had a number of anthrax hoaxes here. There have been cases in the United States, as you are well aware, and we have had roughly 50 suspicious incidents, including the one on Parliament Hill that I alluded to.
In terms of public health, it is clear that you have to go to the site. This is not something you manage from an office. This is not something you manage from a phone. You go to the site, and each site is different. Also, you have to deal with the folks at the site. We have learned that in working with the paramedics and the police.
We are very prepared to set up clinics within 24 hours if antibiotics are necessary. We have done a lot of training of personnel in the community in information communication. They always say you cannot communicate too much. We have a significant amount of material available.
On the next slide I have here, you will see that the first calls come in through ambulance or police, and public health is quickly involved as we go out and look at this. Usually we have a number of experts on the site at any given time, including the public health personnel who are tasked with identifying and moving the agent to a lab.
Honourable senators will see the slide that I have here of the mock chemical explosion that was run at Algonquin College. On the next slide, you will see what I have already told you, that we work with all our partners and are capable of setting up clinics. IDS stands for Infectious Disease Surveillance. It is important to know what is going on here, but also in other communities, whether or not this has been seen.
The information dissemination: We have fact sheets, we have advisories, we have Web sites, and ongoing information that is provided to the physicians and to the emergency rooms. We have the material on hand not only for bioterrorism, from the bacteriological or the infectious standpoint, but also in regard to chemical exposures.
We have a very good relationship with the Ottawa Hospital whereby we have a stockpile of nerve gas agents and antibiotics. As they use the stock, they replenish it. We have ongoing stock, and hopefully not too much of it is being thrown out, because it is being used gradually as we go along.
The surveillance network, as I mentioned, is very important for infectious control practitioners and that the early detection of suspicious cases is reported to public health, and then invariably we are involved.
I might say to honourable senators that the laboratory provided by the federal government, by Health Canada, in Winnipeg is the sort of final laboratory. We have had excellent cooperation and collaboration from Health Canada in Ottawa and also in Winnipeg. Invariably, we get the information we need in a timely fashion.
In closing, I refer to the last slide in putting together the pieces of the puzzle. There is no doubt that you need trained staff, cooperation of agencies and communication. You also need leadership. For leadership we often look to the federal and provincial governments, but invariably, when things happen, it is at the local and municipal level. I am convinced we do have the leadership there. I am not speaking of myself, but of the team I represent.
We have an emergency and protective services department at the city, which is the umbrella organization for fire, police, paramedics and the emergency measures unit. Public health has very good rapport and a very tight relationship with those departments.
As for funding and supplies, again, this is very difficult. This is why I wish to have some dialogue with you today. Emergency response is very expensive. We all hope that we do not have Armageddon. Tight municipal funding arrangements are certainly a problem for us. To date, we have been very fortunate to receive grants and services from the federal government.
One thing I wish to say, and one criticism we have had, is that although there is wonderful funding for supplies and for training, we have found in this city that we do need some designated bodies; not a host of them, but some for sure. As we work within tight budgets, this is an area that is sometimes a problem.
Honourable senators will see on the second to last slide, the first anti-terrorism boutique. You can see the equipment that needs to be worn. Again, regrettably, this is very expensive equipment. You can see how dealing with hoaxes requires a large budget.
I would just conclude with this comment from Los Angeles County: While it is tough to plan, the only thing that is tougher is explaining why you did not, in the event that you have an adverse event or a calamity.
In general, we are fortunate that with the structures of the new city, and with the critical mass we have, I think we are as well prepared as one can expect to be. We could obviously do better. There are certain issues that I am sure honourable senators will wish to discuss with me.
Being at the municipal level, my last comment to you would be that you do expect most of these things to happen in major cities, which have the infrastructure. One of my observations, dating back to the ice storm that we experienced in Ontario and Quebec, plus some other issues, is there is very much a double standard between the five or six cities in this country that are big enough, robust enough and wealthy enough to have the resources they need, and the rest of the country, which is often hard pressed. This has actually come up in the smallpox debate, because we are looking at models from the United States and Britain. It raises the issue of whether you have the components of a SWAT team that can move to an event in some particular place.
I would be willing to try to answer any questions you may have.
The Chairman: Thank you very much, Dr. Cushman. That was a very helpful start.
Senator Banks: Thank you very much, doctor, for being with us today and for giving honourable senators that insight. We have been spending a significant amount of time recently visiting first responders across the country. Last week, we were in the West. We saw different kinds and models of response organizations. They all seem to be effective. It is fair to say that no one model will work everywhere. We cannot do a cookie cutter.
In respect of your last remark, I would like to begin by asking you how wise it is to concentrate the capacity to respond properly to a cataclysmic event, whether it is natural or man-made, in those five or six cities that you suggest are able to do that? I think, happily, that it is more than five or six, but in those cities. For one thing, it would seem a good bet that if we are talking about terrorist-derived disasters, they are more likely to occur in those places than otherwise. You have just told us where all of the stock to respond to certain kinds of things is in Ottawa. If I were a bad guy, I know that I would try to incapacitate that place, for example. We cannot keep those things secret. It is silly.
What would your response be to the idea that perhaps we ought to devise the means to move the responses and to make them movable very quickly, and that they should be placed strategically, on a geographic basis, rather than on a demographic concentration basis? Would that make any sense to you?
Dr. Cushman: There are many similarities with what we are thinking. You are right. Chances are, these events would take place in the large cities, but that does raise the question of what do you do with the rest of the country?
Also, if you had a centralized SWAT team, for example, they may be just twiddling their thumbs, but if you could second folks from different cities, or if you had centres of excellence, and you funded them on condition that they would be deployed if there were an event somewhere else, that is a sort of compromise. As you say, this is along geographic lines. That warrants some attention.
Senator Banks: Getting it down from the macro to the micro, you said that in your plan, as I understand it, it is always the case that you will go to the site because the questions that must be answered are so site specific. In many of the other places that we have visited, the view is that in the case of a large threatening event or a palpable disaster, there needs to be a clear central command post that has the capacity to direct the whole thing. Some places have them nailed down in a particular building, and there are also sometimes alternative, mobile command centres with the capacity to move about and control the situation. Are we absent that in Ottawa?
Dr. Cushman: No. In fact, with the new city just recently putting together the various dispatch services for fire, ambulance and police, there has been a lot of advancement in that area. It is one of those things where, when you start talking about one thing, you invariably ignore the other. I agree with you entirely. We do have central command capacity and we would use that. What I was actually referring to, Senator Banks, was in the event that there is powder at a certain federal building, or at a certain private corporation. First, we found just getting there is important; if you do not, the media will. Second, people want firsthand information about what the possibilities are and what could be going on. Also, because most of those are anthrax hoaxes, we have a set practice. By and large, we decide what is the initial ring of involvement. We want to ensure that we can account for all of those people, their names and phone numbers, in case we do get back a positive lab value some four or five hours later.
You are right. There is definitely a need for a command centre, but I was referring to a subset of that. There is nothing like being on the spot within the first hour to assess the situation.
Senator Banks: In Ottawa, do we have the means, as some other cities do, to make an almost instantaneous first judgment as to what that powder is, for example?
Dr. Cushman: That is a good question.
Senator Banks: Such equipment is available?
Dr. Cushman: There is more material coming on stream as we speak. Think back two years ago. People did not imagine testing for anthrax or smallpox. Certainly some advancement has been made. We have a lot of experience in deciding whether this is talcum powder or baby powder. That does not mean they could not have dumped some anthrax into it. It is hard to say. You can speak with some assurance, but obviously, you do not want to give people false assurances.
Senator Banks: Most of the organizations that we have talked to have agreed that intra-service communication is essential. It is either the first or second priority of most first response teams. Do you know offhand whether, in respect of the Ottawa area team, that central command can address all the elements that might come to bear on an event? In other words, if I am there, can I speak to the police, the fire department, your department, the emergency medical services and, perhaps, others?
Dr. Cushman: We can. You may actually some day want to visit city hall. There is what we call ``the bunker'' there, where there are seats for the various groups. That has worked well in the past. We do have that capacity. This is something that we learned from 9/11, namely, that police had the information that firefighters did not — that those buildings were going to topple. That was just tragic, because they did not have integrated communications systems. We do have the potential to integrate them here. Often, we are at the site together. We have two-level coverage, but you must control what is going on in the middle with the various disciplines. Often, it is a multi-disciplinary approach to a site, so it works well.
Senator Banks: One last communications problem. You mentioned that the media sometimes sensationalize events; that is their job. On the other hand, there are circumstances in which someone needs to be able to speak to everyone. I am sure that you have scenarios for many of those circumstances in which it is necessary now to speak to everyone. To do that, you need the media and, in particular, the electronic media. What mechanisms are there in place in this part of the world to obtain that kind of access to the public?
Dr. Cushman: We have a fast electronic media. The city's Web site can respond in hours. In a situation like this, people are looking to the media. I said earlier that if you did not get there immediately, they would beat you to it. They will get there for sure. Sometimes, they actually know of certain events before we do. Occasionally, I find out about things from the media, not only things like this, but also about a specific disease. Someone will phone the media saying that a relative or neighbour has something, so you have to live with that reality.
In this city, we found that often they are on-site. You can use that as basically a scrum/press conference. You must be careful that they know what your limitations are and that you underscore what their responsibilities are. My experience in this town in that respect has been super. We had an event last May in one of the major buildings in the city housing a lot of finance department employees, where there was a problem with ethylene glycol in the water. We held the public event in the lobby of the building and they were most helpful. We were able to give out the information. We did not even give out written information at that point; we just went on the air. We were able to inform not only the city, but also folks who had left the building. It worked out very well.
The Chairman: Senators Banks, if I understood your last question correctly, you were asking about the capacity to commandeer the media to send out a message. There are places in Canada where the authorities have a mechanism in place whereby the chief medical officer of health, or mayor or whoever, might have a message for the whole city, and can interrupt a program in progress and say, ``This is something everyone needs to know in Ottawa,'' or in the Outaouais or in Eastern Ontario, and make an announcement. Do have you plans to create a mechanism like that?
Dr. Cushman: That is a good question. To date, we have had no problems. Perhaps I should look at it. I always assumed that the answer to that would be yes, but maybe I should go back to the office and check.
Senator Banks: On the matter to which Senator Kenny was referring, I think he, like I, assumed that at the moment, you rely on the voluntary cooperation of the media, which they no doubt give. However, there are places in the country where the appropriate authorities can go to a certain place, press a button, and as of that moment, interrupt every broadcast on every radio station and the message goes out, regardless of what else is going on. It overrides everything. In places where, for example, tornadoes occur, it is necessary to be able to do that. That was what the senator was asking about.
Dr. Cushman: I will do some homework on that.
Senator Forrestall: I have uncovered a couple of deficiencies. You will understand why when I tell you that I have in my hand a summary from January 17 of this year of a select committee that looked at an emergency response program, a five-year multi-agency plan to deal with large-scale emergencies. No potential plane crash is considered, either on-site at the airport or within the urban boundaries, which is a glaring omission. Was that an oversight?
Dr. Cushman: Is that for the City of Ottawa?
Senator Forrestall: Yes.
Dr. Cushman: Is that a report that went to committee?
Senator Forrestall: Apparently it is a report to a select committee in English, and a select committee in French.
Dr. Cushman: I can check that. It might have been an oversight, due to the fact that the airport has its own fire department — this is an example of where things get complex — and the fact that I know that and that we have them around the table. I went to the airport two summers ago for a quarantine issue on a plane, so I am surprised, but I can look into that.
Senator Forrestall: You will be aware that I asked that question because tragically, as we saw yesterday, planes frequently do not crash at airports. They crash sometimes shortly after takeoff, but minutes away from the airport, so municipal authorities are the first responders, or they crash short of the airport, in which event it is again municipal. I am sure there is an overall plan for the airport, but it does not happen to be in this report.
Sadly, there is no mention of how you would deal with the need for a morgue. Where would you set up a morgue? Have you given thought to that in the event of a catastrophe?
Dr. Cushman: Yes, we have. What is the date on that paper? Is it January of this year?
Senator Forrestall: It is pretty recent. January 17.
Dr. Cushman: We are actually undertaking some planning right now, and this is with the help of federal funding. We are looking at all these issues now, everything from earthquakes to the collapse of a bridge, for example, and certainly a morgue is part of that. We have looked at arenas and recreational centres as some possible sites.
The Chairman: If the questioning is going to pursue this document, perhaps we could show it to the witness. He does not appear to be familiar with it.
Senator Forrestall: Yes. I thought Dr. Cushman was involved with this.
Dr. Cushman: I have been, but as I said, this is an ongoing process.
Senator Forrestall: Does that bring back some memories?
Dr. Cushman: Yes.
Senator Forrestall: It is an excellent summary of the work the select committee has done and obviously a lot of thought has gone into its preparation.
Dr. Cushman: Most of it is actually in the future tense, in terms of what we are going to do, and I was referring to this.
Senator Forrestall: I had in the back of my mind to ask you whether this was the ``diving board,'' or are you somewhat more advanced? For example, how wide is the coverage under this plan? Do you go out to Orleans or Hull?
Dr. Cushman: This is citywide but, as we learned from the ice storm, we are always very interdependent. For example, if something happened in Alexandria, or in the Outaouais, with a large-scale disaster, we would be involved, and vice versa. It may be we would require some help from the Outaouais. You probably know this, but ambulances and fire trucks are crossing the bridges regularly in this city, and this is another effort to further integrate our work.
Senator Forrestall: In a command control situation, would there be someone from across the river sitting at the table?
Dr. Cushman: There are provisions for that and, again, it depends on the case. This is strictly a health issue, but with the meningitis epidemic we had 12 years ago, it was so clear that the two medical officers of health had to act together, yet both of them were so far from Queen's Park and the legislative assembly in Quebec City and the problem was confined to this region. They really had to act together and speak to Quebec City and to Toronto in a common voice, so that the resources were available on both sides of the river.
We do have a fair amount of experience in this, but mostly it is at a grassroots problem-solving level, and this is trying to build it up into more long-range emergency planning.
Senator Forrestall: Is Hull doing the same thing?
Dr. Cushman: Hull has its plan and, if I am not mistaken, you have some people coming from Gatineau this afternoon.
The Chairman: Gatineau, which is the new name for Hull.
Senator Forrestall: I beg your pardon, yes, it is. The point I have been trying to make is it would seem to me, when we looked at Edmonton, and they reach to Red Deer, all the way to the north, halfway to Calgary, to be efficient in terms of an adequate application of available resources to meet a common problem. It would seem to me that the same would be true here. Halifax-Dartmouth must have one program, not two, and so on. I would hope that there is room for very close cooperation, if not in fact, once you have developed your own plan and they have developed theirs, that there be an overriding mechanism or some way of coordinating the activities, if for no other reason than to conserve resources.
The report suggests that you would want to do up to 20,000 decontaminations in a 24-hour period. How many units do you have, mobile or stationary, to help you achieve that level? For example, how many could you do in the first hour?
Dr. Cushman: I think again that the person who can tell you that is my colleague, Steve Kanellakos. We have the two HazMat trucks.
Senator Forrestall: Does the City of Ottawa have two?
Dr. Cushman: Two HazMat teams, yes.
The Chairman: If I may, this witness is scheduled for a subsequent hearing.
Senator Forrestall: You should let us in on some of this.
The Chairman: In two weeks, Dr. Cushman's colleague will come to cover that part of the testimony.
Senator Forrestall: I asked these questions because there is a suggestion that there are some 200 metric tonnes of liquid hazardous material, and I was not thinking so much of the hazardous material, although I would like to know what it is and where it is, and I hope people in Ottawa know what it is and where it is. How do you treat 200 tonnes when we hear that a spoonful will make the medicine go down in a not acceptable way? What are the health implications of this, and the need for coordination, because is the 200 tonnes of hazardous material anywhere near water? If it is such that it is affected by winds, you know what can happen.
Dr. Cushman: Your point is well taken. This is part of a $5 million project to scope all these issues out and to look at what our potential challenges are.
As to your second point, regrettably, we want to identify these challenges and be prepared to deal with them. However, I hate to say that, at times, the situation may be beyond our capacity, at which point we would have to call on the federal government and the provincial government to provide us with additional resources to help us out.
Senator Forrestall: You have now the ongoing knowledge as to the nature and location of hazardous materials in the city. Therefore, the question is: What material has been imported into the city that might create a problem? How you go about identifying that? How do you communicate that?
Dr. Cushman: You have identified a problem. Much of this hazardous material is actually material in transit. It is something that has the potential to go wrong in some place at some time. We are talking about a truck or a rail car. In that regard, we can think back to the Mississauga event of 20 years ago. We must look at our rail lines, what we are making here and what we are bringing in. As well, we have to look at what these toxic agents are and what the standard response to them is so that we can be prepared.
Senator Forrestall: What physical capability do you have to decontaminate, say, 20,000 in one day?
Dr. Cushman: It will depend upon what the material is. We have mobile shower units, coupled with our HazMat team. We also have some capacity in the local hospitals. Ideally, we do not want people to go to the hospitals. We would like them to go to the site, which is what I was alluding to earlier.
Senator Forrestall: Do you have the capacity to contain the waste water from these mobile shower units?
Dr. Cushman: We do. Again, there is a limit. We know that what we can do, we can do well. However, the bottom line is our total capacity.
Senator Day: Dr. Cushman, I would like more clarification on how you define the region for planning purposes. You discussed primarily the municipal boundaries. Can you explain to us how you draw the other areas in and how that is planned for?
Dr. Cushman: I can only speak from a public health perspective. I know my colleagues in the surrounding areas. We also have a central service. For example, if someone from Toronto has come to Ottawa, that information will get to me. Quebec also has a central service. Within the realm of public health and the spread of infectious disease, as I said earlier, these are ancient diseases. What we have realized is that the approach is very similar to that we use in general terms for public health. I refer to the tracking of meningitis and tuberculosis, for example. We rely on those networks. We have well-established networks. A week does not go by that I do not talk to one of my colleagues about a case on which we are sharing information.
Senator Day: Do you and your colleagues combined cover all of the area or are there some gaps? Are the medical officers based in municipal regions, leaving gaps in the middle?
Dr. Cushman: There are some gaps. There are some areas in rural Ontario that are not covered by medical officers of health, and those become the responsibility of the central office or the neighbouring areas. There are some problems, but there are health departments in all these areas. Usually, if there is a need, we can get the information out.
Senator Day: Who would be expected to respond if there was a chemical or a hazardous material spill, for example, in a particular area? Who responds to that, if it is not in your municipality?
Dr. Cushman: I assume that they would have emergency medical services, the same as we have here. They have fire, police and public health departments. They deal with the problem according to their needs.
All our emergency plans have a large hospital component to them. A hospital would be put on alert. For example, during the anthrax incident here in this building a year and a half ago, the Ottawa Hospital was on alert. They cleared their emergency rooms.
Senator Day: What I am trying to get at is do you have some assurance and comfort that there is some regional planning that will deal with the situation? For example, if chlorine gas is escaping from a rail car, that gas does not remain within municipal boundaries. How would that be responded to? If the rail car goes off the track in your municipality, would you have jurisdiction over it?
Dr. Cushman: I think it is best to live with examples. Two summers ago, there were some major problems with fires beyond the border of the region of Ottawa-Carleton in the Leeds-Grenville area. Our fire services were helping out. The public health department in that area notified us. We helped them in approaching the problem. We were also on alert right from the word go. There are natural allegiances and collaboration.
You will also see that everyone has an emergency plan. The public health department's emergency plan has to fit into that of the City of Ottawa. The Ottawa Hospital's has to dovetail with it. For example, even a small nursing home has to have its own emergency plan that will fit into the global plan. This also applies to the Outaouais and the outlying neighbouring regions. The office that coordinates these plans is the Emergency Measures Unit headed up by Harold Murphy at the City of Ottawa. Senator Kenny may be asking him to appear in the future. I alluded to the ice storm earlier. Ottawa was not that hard hit. We were a major source of help to smaller townships between here and the Quebec border.
Senator Day: Is the emergency measures planning you describe a provincially oriented and coordinated activity?
Dr. Cushman: Certainly the province sets the guidelines, the standards. They mandate that it be done, that the plans be filed and that we have routine exercises in this area.
The Algonquin college event that I alluded to is an example. Mr. Kanellakos can tell you that we are required to do two, three, four a year. I cannot speak to that. That is more his domain.
Senator Day: Do you have any difficulty dealing with the federal government if it is in your domain, or do you have to deal with the provincial government and then they talk to the federal government?
Dr. Cushman: I recall, as an example, when the mayor called in the army during the ice storm, he had to go through the province. There are certain chains or pathways along which one works. There are certain protocols. As I alluded to earlier, we have had wonderful collaboration with the Health Canada laboratories. For example, if we are worried about anthrax or smallpox, we notify our counterparts in Toronto, but because these are rare diseases, the laboratory capacity is in the hands of Health Canada. We go directly to the department, but we inform our colleagues in Toronto.
Senator Day: Suppose the committee wanted to find out whether there is a stockpiling of equipment or antibiotics or whatever it may be. Would the coordination occur provincially, so that there is not a big stockpile in Ottawa, nothing in Kanata and another big stockpile somewhere else?
Dr. Cushman: We took that initiative in September 2001. We do have a stockpile here. The federal and provincial governments knew about it. Certainly, if those supplies were needed, for example, in Alexandria, not here, we would make them available. You are asking me whether there is an actual system set up. It is fair to say that that is still being worked out at the federal-provincial level. If anything, some of the municipalities have leap-frogged ahead at this point, and for obvious reasons. They are large, they have the capacity to do this, and they think this is where the problems will be.
Senator Day: And they are right there as the first responders.
Dr. Cushman: Exactly.
The Chairman: As a supplementary to Senator Day's question, would Dr. D'Cunha, the provincial medical officer of health, have a coordinating role in your activities here, Dr. Cushman?
Dr. Cushman: Not really. Certainly they have a provincial plan, Mr. Chairman. If I see anything in this community that concerns me, I make sure that he hears about it from me and not from the newspaper. That is just good practice. That is the way we work.
As I said earlier, the province sets out guidelines, but it transpires at the municipal level. The same applies to the federal government. You can make suggestions, put out standards and fund it, but the actual work must be done at the municipal level. That is where things happen and where the organizations work together.
Senator Atkins: In our travels, we have been hearing that there were lessons learned from 9/11. You mentioned one: That there was a breakdown in communication between the police and the firefighters, and the consequences were terrible.
Can you tell us what other lessons resulted from 9/11 that applied to your responsibilities?
Dr. Cushman: I alluded to some of those with respect to bioterrorism. Certainly this is a new game for us, but it is also an old game. We must familiarize ourselves with material that physicians now in their 80s and 90s knew about, but we do not.
Second, on the integration at the grassroots level, I actually attended a conference in the U.S. with Mr. Kanellakos and Mr. Di Monte, the director of our emergency medical services. What came out of that was that there were some silos in New York, but there are also silos in other municipal jurisdictions. The fact that we were at this conference together was an indication of our level of collaboration. There were a few people who had quite a significant degree of foresight some years ago in this city and a lot of work had been done earlier. Also, one of the departments in the new City of Ottawa is Emergency and Protective Services. The only first-line responder that is not in that group is public health. Nonetheless, we spend a lot of time with them. We meet regularly and we are very involved. We are very fortunate that those services have been put under one umbrella.
As I also alluded to earlier, we are very lucky in Ottawa. We have a history of working together. It is a small enough city that we know each other, and big enough to have the resources to do things. We saw the need for collaboration, and we are heartened that we are well abreast of that here.
You then get down to the specifics about what are these agents, what is your capacity to respond, and what do you need to get involved.
When Senator Forrestall was asking me about our capacity, he realizes that you cannot take funds out of every other service you offer in order to plan for the apocalypse. There is a limit there. I would be the first to say if we had a true `flu pandemic or a smallpox event, our hospitals would grind to a halt while we were looking at how to address it. Then the big question would be, in terms of the damage done, what would it do to the day-to-day capacity? It is like preparing for a nuclear war; there is only so much you can do.
If honourable senators look at the examples, they will see that these incidents have been fairly confined. While there have not been a significant number of people involved — there have not been 50,000 — there have been about 500 or 1,000. That is our modus operandi in how we look at this.
Senator Atkins: You can never underestimate the power of the media. They throw around issues like weapons of mass destruction and smallpox. Do you have an information centre, or a way that you can cope with the kind of inquiries that I am sure the media generate?
Dr. Cushman: That is a good question. If you know what you are really dealing with, if you are comfortable with your analysis and you have the facts, just getting out there and riding the wave with them is best. You cannot beat them, so join them, has been my experience. That is not always the case. The other problem is if there is a significant amount of uncertainty and there is an inordinate amount of pressure on you to give answers that you do not have. That is very different. Invariably, you have an adversarial relationship then because there is so much pressure on them to produce.
My experience has been that it is best to get out there quickly and be as honest as you can. If we do not know what we are dealing with, we say that we hope that by tomorrow at noon we will. This is our contingency plan and this is what we recommend to the public.
Senator Atkins: You mentioned that you go to different conventions. Is that a good source of information for you and your colleagues?
Dr. Cushman: There are some very good ones. We went to one six months after 9/11. There was significant firsthand experience from New York.
Certainly, to learn from those conferences is very helpful. This training issue is one of the areas that the federal government is funding. It is very important.
Historically, I have preferred to use a library or do a media search, but we found that this was so new, a body of knowledge has not been captured in the journals or in the articles. It was much better for us to get firsthand experience from those who were there.
Senator Banks: Senator Atkins has led me directly into my follow-up question. The federal government funding to which you have just referred is, I presume, through the Joint Emergency Preparedness Program?
Dr. Cushman: I believe so, yes.
Senator Banks: I was careful to spell it out because we have a stiff fine for the use of unexplained acronyms here.
Dr. Cushman: I was warned in advance. I have a few of my own, so I am back- pedaling.
Senator Banks: I have a few, and the jar is full of my half-dollars.
I would like you to comment as fully and as candidly as you can on the Office of Critical Infrastructure Protection and Emergency Preparedness, about which we hear different things in different parts of the country. We hear from some folks that the efforts there at coordination, for example, information sharing and so on, and making sure that everything is tickety-boo are on track, and we hear in other places that that is not so. What is your experience and that of your agency with what I will now call OCIPEP?
Dr. Cushman: I will confine my remarks to public health and let Mr. Kanellakos talk about the overall preparedness efforts.
First, in public health, we have had rapid and superb cooperation in the laboratory setting, which is extremely important. That is how you diagnose these diseases if they are in those powders. Second, we have received some funding that Mr. Kanellakos can refer to. I am, like everyone else at the table, trying to get a piece of the pie for public health. We have had playful jousting with my colleagues from fire and police services. I am comfortable with that.
I did refer earlier to the fact that, sometimes when you build capacity, it is often helpful, if you can, to have some of the positions funded. That is a complicated issue. You do not want to be locked in long term. I just throw that out for you.
As for Ron St. John and his colleagues at Health Canada, certainly I have attended presentations with them. I have seen their material. It has helped us, and it has helped me, at least in the medical area. They are a phone call away. That has been an asset.
There are invariably dialogues between the federal government and the provinces. We at the municipal level sometimes feel like the third cousins who are not even at the table. They have to sort out themselves what they will do nationwide and where and how the money will flow. As I said to Senator Day, we are the ones on the ground, the first responders. That is a long-standing constitutional challenge in this wonderful country in which we live. If honourable senators can think of ways to see that municipalities receive some money directly, I would not object to that.
In a roundabout way, I have been pleased to date. However, you would need to talk to Mr. Kanellakos about the overall issues for the city because he is in charge of that.
Senator Banks: It is not our plan to open that particular constitutional jar for the next little while.
My last question, so that we can make the comparisons — and they are always odious, but different in any given municipality — is that when an emergency medical team goes out, for example, an ambulance or a larger emergency medical response unit, under the aegis of which agency in this municipal area does it operate? Is it a function of the fire department? Is it separate? Tell us how that works.
Dr. Cushman: I am pleased to report that it is now under the aegis of the city. Before the new City of Ottawa unfolded, the Ministry of Health ran the ambulance and paramedic services. At present, fire, public health, police, paramedic and emergency measures, all five, are under the domain of the city. Four are under the domain of Mr. Kanellakos in Emergency Protective Services. We are sort of the outside link, but we are very close.
By having these elements together, good progress has already been made on the central command to which you alluded earlier, senator — dispatch and communication. It is the city. We may have some bias, but we think we are delivering a superior service because we are now all together.
Senator Banks: It is now working better than it did?
Dr. Cushman: I believe it is.
The Chairman: Dr. Cushman, I wish to thank you for appearing before us. Your testimony has been helpful in the course of our studies. As we mentioned, we expect to hear from your colleagues who represent the other five organizations that relate to emergency preparedness here in the City of Ottawa in the next week or so. We have heard from both the chief of police and in writing from the medical officer of health in Toronto. We have visited Regina, Edmonton and Vancouver. We plan to continue with this study through the winter and spring, expecting to report some time early in the summer.
Before excusing you, doctor, it falls upon me to have the honour and pleasure of recognizing some work that you have done, and then some work that a friend of yours has done, in the field of tobacco control. If you would just come forward, perhaps I can explain it further.
In recognition of the remarkable work that you have done here in the City of Ottawa in the field of tobacco control, it is my pleasure and honour to present you with a Jubilee Medal.
Ms. Barbara Reynolds, Clerk of the Committee: The commemorative medal for Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II's Golden Jubilee was created to mark the 50th anniversary of the accession of Her Majesty to the Throne on February 6, 1952.
[Translation]
It is awarded to persons who, like yourself, have made an exceptional contribution to Canada, to their community, or to their fellow citizens.
[English]
The Chairman: Thank you very much. The box comes with it, and perhaps a scroll.
Dr. Cushman: First, I wish to thank you. In any major effort, there is always a lot of strong support and a lot of other key players. I see one right in front of me, Senator Kenny, who has done remarkable work in this area, and also Ken Kyle. I will think of you both, and many others, as I enjoy this.
The Chairman: Mr. Kyle, come forward, please. Mr. Ken Kyle is from the Canadian Cancer Society, which has spearheaded the fight against youth smoking and for tobacco control in Canada. I think it is fair to say that Ken has been the driving force of the society in those efforts and played a major role in encouraging the federal government to significantly increase its spending. For that I congratulate you very much, and I am honoured to also present you with this medal.
Ms. Reynolds: The commemorative medal for Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II's Golden Jubilee was created to mark the 50th anniversary of the accession of Her Majesty to the Throne on February 6, 1952.
[Translation]
It is awarded to persons who, like yourself, have made an exceptional contribution to their community, to Canada or to their fellow citizens.
[English]
Mr. Ken Kyle, Director, Public Issues, Canadian Cancer Society: Thank you to the whole Senate, and to you, Senator Kenny, and Senator Nolin, for your great work. The Senate has played a leadership role with respect to the Tobacco Youth Protection Act. It is working and lives are being saved. The Senate as a whole should feel proud.
The Chairman: After that pleasant moment, honourable senators, I bring this portion of the meeting to a close with a short message to those who are following our work at home. Please visit our Web site by going to www.sen-sec.ca. We post witness testimony as well as confirmed hearing schedules. Otherwise you may contact the clerk of the committee by calling 1-800-267-7362 for further information or for assistance in contacting members of the committee.
Honourable senators, Senator Jack Wiebe from Saskatchewan joined us while Dr. Cushman was making his presentation. Senator Wiebe is one of Saskatchewan's leading citizens. He has been a highly successful farmer, a member of the Saskatchewan Legislative Assembly and the Lieutenant Governor of Saskatchewan. He is past president of the Canadian Forces Liaison Council. He is the Deputy Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on Agriculture and Forestry. Currently, that committee is looking at the impact of climate change on farming and forestry practices across the country.
We have heard from the Chief Medical Officer of the City of Ottawa. We will now hear from Mr. Jacques Rathwell, Manager, Emergency Measures, for the City of Gatineau, and Mr. André Langelier, Director, Emergency and Protective Services.
Gentlemen, we welcome you both. We are looking forward to hearing from you.
[Translation]
Mr. André Langelier, Director, Emergency and Protective Services, City of Gatineau: First, let me thank you on behalf of the City of Gatineau for inviting us to play a role in the emergency preparedness system of our municipal organization. As you know, the City of Gatineau is a municipality that was formed by a merger on January 1st, 2002. Thus, it is a brand new city. Let us first describe it to you. It is important, even though we are neighbours, to introduce to you the new City of Gatineau.
Mr. Rathwell will give the presentation about the new City of Gatineau and then, I will present to you our emergency preparedness plan, which has been implemented since January 1, 2002.
At the time of the merger, we had already set up a municipal emergency preparedness organization. Later on I will tell you about the response team for chemical, biological, radiological and nuclear threats we are now creating. We should be fully operational by the fall of 2003. I will describe to you how various levels of government contributed to create this team. Without further ado, Mr. Rathwell will describe our municipality.
Mr. Jacques Rathwell, Manager, Emergency Measures, City of Gatineau: The City of Gatineau resulted from the merger of the former municipalities of Hull, Gatineau, Aylmer, Buckingham, Masson-Angers and the Outaouais urban community. It is Quebec's fifth largest city with its 228,052 inhabitants, and is part of the National Capital, which is the fourth largest urban centre in Canada. Its territory has a surface of 344,162 km2. It extends along a 47.59 km long strip along the Outaouais River and the Gatineau and Lièvre Rivers flow through it from north to south. Its main economic activities are government services, trade and health services. Its population is 82 per cent francophone and the bilingualism rate is 63 per cent. Its level of education is higher than the rest of Quebec and the average household income as of 1996 was $48,324.
Mr. Langelier: This was a very brief overview of our municipality. Now, if you allow, we will tell you about the municipal organization of emergency preparedness in the City of Gatineau.
You received a copy of the document. There you see a flow chart of the municipal emergency preparedness organization. You see that in Quebec, with regard to emergency measures, there is an Emergency Preparedness Act that gives powers to municipalities. Besides, disasters in Quebec must be managed by municipalities. Shortly, we will see that occasionally, when a municipality is overwhelmed, the regional emergency preparedness team can be called in. Later, we can request the implementation of what we call in Quebec the ``National Emergency Preparedness Plan.''
As a pivotal figure in emergency preparedness, the mayor has an important role to play as defined by the act. The town council must be kept abreast of the situation as it evolves. In Quebec, each municipality has an emergency preparedness coordinator. Mr. Mark Laroche, our Chief Executive, coordinates emergency preparedness for the City of Gatineau and I am his substitute. As I am in charge of the module for the protection of life and property, in normal times I supervise police services, fire safety services, 911, emergency measures, the school patrol and animal control. All these services are part of the module for the protection of life and property.
When you are dealing with the organizational structure of an emergency or public security measure, it may involve certain sectors. At the planning stage, we would consult those sectors which may potentially be called ``risk generators.''
In the event of a major disaster which a city cannot cope with, the mayor may immediately turn to the Government of Quebec. He would automatically call the regional emergency preparedness manager at the ministère de la Sécurité publique, who in turn would get in touch with the Government of Quebec. The coordinator may also ask for assistance from the Government of Quebec or ask the regional emergency preparedness coordinator for help. The coordinator is in charge of an intervention plan which calls upon various Government of Quebec departments, depending on the nature of their activities.
At that stage, the Government of Quebec services could be provided through the Department of the Environment, the Régie régionale de santé et services sociaux, the Department of Agriculture, the Department of Municipal Affairs, the Quebec Provincial Police and so on.
We have a universal emergency preparedness plan. If anything happens on our territory, we are ready with a general plan for implementation.
We are also working on specific intervention plans which are complementary to our general emergency preparedness plan. For instance, in the event of a dam failure, we have a specific plan of intervention if ever we need to deal with this type of situation.
We are also working on an evacuation and confinement plan. Sometimes it is better for people to stay home and keep their windows closed rather than go out, because it may be more dangerous to be outside than indoors, depending on the nature of the disaster.
Other areas of activity have been taken into account under our plan. Any emergency preparedness situation must provide for good communication with the media and the public. We also have information technologies at our disposal. As you know, the most important thing in emergency preparedness is communication. It is therefore very important to have a well-structured information technology plan.
We also have a person who is in charge of permanent resources, that is the management of human resources, including volunteers and others.
Mr. Rathwell is in charge of the public security office for the City of Gatineau. We gave him the mandate of analyzing and planning all issues surrounding public security and those affecting emergency measures and plans. That is his primary responsibility. That is what he was specifically hired to do.
We also have coordinators. In case of a major disaster on our territory, the event would happen on the ground, so we need to know how to alert the public and who will be called in: the police, fire services or others.
We also have an assistant coordinator for operations who, depending on the nature of the event, would, for instance, be a senior police officer or someone from fire prevention services, or even someone from public works or the public health office if the event in question were an epidemic or something of that nature. Depending on the type of disaster, we would immediately appoint a director of operations. This person would be in charge of the disaster site, define the security perimeter and direct everything that goes on within the security perimeter.
This person would make sure that the zone is safe and that no unauthorized person enters the zone.
When you are dealing with operations, you are dealing with the police, fire prevention services, technical services and transportation. Public transportation services would be in charge of transporting merchandise and organizing vehicles to transport people in case of an evacuation.
If we are faced with health problems, we can also directly contact the Régie régionale de la santé in Quebec.
All these people are members of our committee, the municipal organization for emergency preparedness, and when we meet, these people participate and they are the key players.
The coordinator is also the person in charge. This person is based at the emergency operations centre. The assistant operations coordinator is also at the emergency operations centre. The operations director is onsite and his job is to direct the operations. Then there is the assistant coordinator who is in charge of assistance to the victims.
In the event of a disaster, in the area of civil security, it is very important to look after the victims. You need someone in charge of psychological and social services. We worked together with local community service centres which would come to our aid if necessary.
Our plan also calls for emergency shelters. We would also provide food and clothing to people and help them find friends or loved ones. If a major disaster strikes, people become emotional and families need to be helped. The public must generally be kept informed at all times. We have to be able to explain what is happening, to organize press conferences and to provide logistical and financial support. There are different programs in Quebec dealing with financial relief for victims.
The directors of the City of Gatineau's municipal service centres — in Montreal and in Quebec City, where municipalities have been amalgamated, they are called wards, but that is not the case with us. We have municipal service centres: five municipal service centre directors provide support to the assistant coordinator for disaster relief, if need be. They know their territory and their association. These are key people who can help the assistant coordinator for disaster relief, who in turn will advise the coordinator. This is an original structure which has been proven. We held disaster simulations and applied our plan. We have planned other simulations for 2003.
There was mention of dam failure. We will conduct a table-top exercise with such a scenario. The entire civil security team of the City of Gatineau will meet to simulate reaction to a dam failure. This is basically how it works.
In the event of a major disaster, the alert is given, people are mobilized and our civil security plan must be ready for implementation. This is what happens when an alert is given. People witness an event. They call the police or 911. The call is immediately transferred to emergency services and, depending on the event, its seriousness will be determined. If it is an extraordinary event, a major disaster, only then will our director general contact the civil security coordinator.
We have two teams on standby, team A and team B. If the coordinator happens to be outside the country, there is someone to take his place. Under our civil security plan, every person has a specific responsibility and every person also has a replacement.
The coordinator is informed of the event and he in turn contacts the mayor. The coordinator will set into motion his municipal organization's civil security apparatus. The coordinator is responsible for contacting the people responsible for the various areas of intervention. The mayor will inform his municipal council and will be the one who speaks directly to the public. Perhaps other resources will be called in, such as the Red Cross or others.
When I was the director for public security for the town of Aylmer, a major disaster happened a few years ago, when a tornado seriously damaged several homes.
Sometimes we do not even need to reach out because organizations come up and ask if there is anything they can do. That was the case with the RCMP. The Quebec Provincial Police and other organizations have certain skills and may provide help, if necessary. There also is a regional coordinator for civil security.
Whenever a major disaster hits our city, we will basically always get in touch with the Bureau régional de la sécurité civile and they will send us public security advisers to observe the situation and provide us with advice.
To effectively manage a disaster, you need a municipal coordination centre. We already have centres in place to coordinate the activities of those responsible for dealing with such a situation. But we need to build communication networks. We already have existing networks, but we have to make sure they work. There are plans to improve them.
We also need to think about potential security measures. We need to appoint a director of operations who will assume responsibility for the management of the disaster onsite. We would immediately inform the disaster relief people. They will get organized. Shelters would be opened and we would call upon local community service centres to provide psychological and social support services and so on. These things would all happen at the same time.
A public information centre would be opened. In case of a disaster, information must be managed and there should be mechanisms in place to keep the public, all citizens, informed of unfolding events. There should also be a media centre and a place set aside for them.
For our coordination centres, we have a plan A and a plan B. Plan A is based in the municipal centre, which is Gatineau police headquarters, which would be our coordination centre. Plan B would be based at Hull police headquarters.
If need be, we could also open a civil security coordination centre elsewhere. We have emergency portable equipment and could open a coordination centre some place other than at the two above-mentioned sites.
In terms of communications, I spoke to the importance of keeping the public informed and of media relations. We need to manage the information and keep in touch with the media. If we do not provide the media with information, they will get it elsewhere and broadcast information which is not useful. So we need to keep our staff informed.
The mayor is the municipality's spokesperson, he chairs public meetings, does scrums and holds press conferences. The press theatre is located at 25 Laurier Street. It is Gatineau's press theatre.
Of course, when you talk about civilian disaster relief, you must take measures relating to protection, safeguarding and restoration. You can try to prevent and prepare, but you have to be ready for anything. You also have to think about the restoration phase. Protection, safeguarding and restoration measures involve evacuation, confinement and victims' assistance: this is important because people will need help. The restoration phase is very elaborate under our civil security plan. Services for victims include registration and information; you need to know how many people are affected. In the event of a disaster, it is important to establish whether anyone is missing and if the search for missing people has been thorough. You have to be absolutely certain that everyone is accounted for. We would have shelters; we would need to provide food and clothing to victims, as well as a variety of other services, depending on their needs. Sometimes people come with their pets — people get attached to their cats and dogs — so we have an agreement with the SPCA which would look after the animals.
Restoration measures involve cleaning up the site, implementing an assistance program with the help of the Quebec government and progressively reintegrating evacuees. We would have to make sure that there are no gas leaks or dangerous or toxic products lying about. It could be hours, even days, before people are allowed back into their homes or neighbourhoods.
At the restoration phase, you have to make sure that people fall back into their daily lives. When business and other sectors are down, it is hard for the economy to get up and running, which leads to many other problems.
As to specific plans, we do a risk assessment and of course, we discuss the possibility of floods, of landslides, of earthquakes, of tornados, of dangerous merchandise and airplane crashes, and so forth.
We realized a few months ago, especially since the events of September 11th, that it was important to have a team available in case of any chemical, biological, radiological or nuclear risk. We have received several calls from the City of Gatineau over the past few months, quite often because we were requesting assistance from the City of Ottawa. They are wonderful neighbours of course. Asking your neighbour for sugar or butter, that is something that can be done once or twice, but you do not want to ask for too much from a good neighbour.
We submitted a file to the municipal authorities and we have taken advantage of various programs offered by the Government of Quebec and the federal government within the JEPP program, the Joint Emergency Preparedness Program. We will get back to that.
We have received the authorization and the approval of city council to create such a rapid response team. We are now negotiating with the City of Ottawa in order to have a reciprocity agreement. If they need our services, we will provide them and vice versa. We will have over 29 firemen trained and equipped within this new CBRN team and we feel that we will be in a position to assist the City of Ottawa. We do not have a crystal ball and one can never be too prepared in this area. In future, this is how we intend to proceed.
We are now discussing exchanges, things that we can both have access to and assistance which would be required if our emergency plan ever had to be acted upon. If ever there were a serious situation, some services from Ottawa could be useful to us. It could take three or four hours to have assistance from Quebec whereas if we just knock on the neighbour's door, it could take seven or eight minutes. If we are dealing with a situation where lives are in danger, we will not hesitate to ask for assistance. There is only a river between us and I think that we can help each other out.
We will be one of three teams in Quebec. The cities of Gatineau, Montreal and Quebec City will have a response team. There will be a team trained in Gatineau comprised of, among others, 29 fire fighters equipped with specialized vehicles, which requires a $1.3 million investment in order to purchase the equipment and provide the training.
One hundred and seventy-one thousand dollars will be used for training and specialization of personnel. This team will be put into place to deal with chemical incidents and to intervene in situations where dangerous materials are involved. The fire fighters called to the scene will be able to see what toxic products are concerned and will be able to act accordingly. This plan is scheduled to cover a 10-year period.
The Government of Quebec has granted an annual amount to the City of Gatineau in order to put the CBRN team into place. The joint JEPP program made the decision-making process easier when they were deciding to grant us this second amount. It is expensive. Higher echelons of government become involved in the jurisdiction of other levels of government and the cities are starting to be rather hesitant to establish such services. They wonder whether it is truly a municipal matter and whether it should more properly be a provincial or federal responsibility. However, the decision has at this time been made. We are building such a team. We are very thankful for the federal government's cooperation through the JEPP program in this regard.
In the fall of 2003, we should be fully operational with this team. My presentation was brief, I do realize this and if ever you would like to have more information on the complete plan for emergency protection, we would be very pleased to share it with you.
Senator Day: Mr. Langelier and Mr. Rathwell, thank you very much for being here today and for your excellent presentation. It seems that you are well prepared for emergencies. We have visited other cities and you are just as prepared as they are. I would even say that you rank highest in terms of planning.
Before the municipal merger, was there one organization for each city?
Mr. Langelier: Each municipality had to set up its own civil preparedness team. Each municipality had a separate plan for civil emergencies. Were those plans up-to-date? That is another question, but, in principle, each municipality had to develop its own emergency preparedness organization.
Senator Day: Was there equipment and trucks?
Mr. Langelier: Generally speaking, in a civil emergency, the equipment used would be things that the municipality already owns, such as police vehicles, fire trucks, etc. Since Gatineau has become a larger city, we can buy specialized equipment and vehicles, which none of the municipalities were able to do before. I am convinced that the inhabitants will be better protected from now on if an emergency arises and we will be better able to respond. We will be able to offer better service because we have more resources now that we are larger. I am certain that if the merger had not occurred, we would not have had a CBRN team such as the one I have described.
Senator Day: You are much better prepared now because of the municipal merger?
Mr. Langelier: I would not want to give an opinion on how well prepared the municipalities were before the merger. Each city had its own plan. I do feel, however, that we are more efficient now because we have more material, physical and human resources at our disposal. In the past, if there was a major incident in Aylmer, I would have had to ask for assistance from the other municipalities. Various authorizations would have to be obtained. Now, all that is gone, because we are all one city. It is one large organization and we are in a better position, I believe, to respond. We have more resources then we used to have.
Senator Day: You discussed the region around the City of Gatineau. Is it Gatineau's mayor who decides whether the emergency team goes out into the region?
Mr. Langelier: No.
Senator Day: Who decides?
Mr. Langelier: We could be called upon to respond in surrounding towns. Three cities have this equipment and we could be asked to respond outside our territory at the request of the Quebec government or another municipality. If a major event involves two or three municipalities, we put our regional civil protection plan into action in cooperation with the regional civil protection office.
Senator Day: Who decides? Suppose there is a disaster that starts in the City of Gatineau — involving chemicals, for example. Who decides that it is a regional problem and not just a municipal one?
Mr. Langelier: The whole situation is assessed by our experts. As soon as a major situation happens, the Regional Civil Protection Directorate is informed. We discuss the matter, and after an assessment, we decide that the incident is becoming regional in scope. Then we need to involve other people in the regional civil protection plan.
Senator Day: Will you conduct joint testing with the regions?
Mr. Langelier: Not at this point, but we will be setting up the regional team and conducting joint exercises.
Mr. Rathwell: We sit on a committee. Mr. Langelier was talking earlier about specific plans for situations such as a dam breaking. This committee was set up even before the merger happened. It involved all the municipalities along the Lièvre River. A committee was formed to plan how to respond adequately if a dam broke. That committee, as part of the process, intends to organize an exercise to check the plan's feasibility and see how the municipalities will interact and how the region and its resources are able to support the affected municipalities.
Senator Day: Who is in charge of operations for that kind of exercise?
Mr. Rathwell: It is run by the civil protection authorities, the regional directorate of the Public Security Department.
Senator Day: A regional representative who is in the municipality full-time?
Mr. Langelier: No, in various regions of Quebec, the Public Security Department has civil protection advisers, and in our region, there are five such advisers. Their job is to give us advice and to examine our plans. If a disaster occurs, they are on site to give us advice. So there is a regional office. If a critical, major situation goes beyond the municipal level, we contact the regional civil protection director, who will coordinate the response at the regional level.
A few years ago, we had a regional civil protection committee that was very active. For all sorts of reasons, it became less active, but we are in the process of bringing that committee back to life. Moreover, there is new civil protection legislation in Quebec. There will be security schematics to prepare, as well as a regional civil protection response plan.
Senator Day: How is the region defined?
Mr. Langelier: It is the Quebec side.
Senator Day: It goes from what region to what region? What is the region just outside the City of Gatineau?
Mr. Rathwell: The region extends to Maniwaki in the north, to the Pontiac in the west and to Papineauville in the east. In includes the municipalities of Thurso, Plaisance, Papineauville, etc. All those municipalities are part of the larger Outaouais region.
Senator Day: Including Montebello?
Mr. Rathwell: Yes, including Montebello.
Senator Day: Do you do exercises with the City of Ottawa?
Mr. Langelier: We have not done so up to this point. As you can understand, the new municipality was created only a year ago, so we still have a lot to do. That is an excellent idea. We were talking earlier about cooperation, reciprocal agreements and mutual support. When it comes to it, it will be worthwhile preparing and planning joint exercises.
Mr. Rathwell: The City of Ottawa keeps us up-to-date on all its civil protection programs and invites us to attend its seminars and conferences. We intend to do the same in this area.
Senator Day: Do you have electronic communication systems that could be used with Ottawa in case of an emergency?
Mr. Langelier: We do, of course, have excellent communication with the City of Ottawa, but we are in the process of looking at various possibilities, including buying a radio communication system that would allow us to communicate directly with Ottawa.
In terms of data information, we already liaise with Ottawa, since we have the same police communication system. Police officers in Gatineau are in direct contact with Ottawa through their vehicle terminals, etc. We are working on a radio communication project so that the two cities can communicate directly with each other if necessary.
Senator Day: Are we talking about the Royal Canadian Mounted Police?
Mr. Langelier: No, the Gatineau Police Force collaborates with the Ottawa Police Force.
The Chairman: Do the fire fighters do the same thing?
Mr. Langelier: No, there are no plans to have a common system so as to be able to communicate between the two cities. That issue might be looked at in the longer term.
Senator Day: You said that it was important to inform the public if there was a disaster, and we agree with you. You also explained the need for press conferences and public meetings. That said, it is difficult to hold a public meeting during an emergency. Do you have any way of communicating with the general public in the event of an emergency, either electronically or through a radio station or telecommunications?
Mr. Langelier: In the event of an emergency, we are in direct and constant contact with the media, and there are a number of ways of communicating with the public. We are looking at various electronic and mass information means that could be used. We already have certain means that we use to provide information to further crime prevention. In order to reach everyone, we would use the media and other means, but mainly the media, to communicate with people.
Emergency public meetings with victims, disaster victims and the media can be organized very quickly. We do not need to go looking for the media, the media comes looking for us for information. We must have very simple means of communication.
Mr. Rathwell: An entire chapter in our presentation is devoted to communications, and one of the themes deals with media relations. Communications play a vital role in our municipal structure for civil security and in our coordination. They are in charge of developing media relations and identifying the best ways of getting the messages out to the people.
Mr. Langelier: Our general plan for civil security includes model press releases and our communications service is very active in meeting all of our needs. It is not all that easy to draft a press release in the wee hours of the morning after a very long day at work.
Senator Day: You mentioned three teams, including one that was made up of 20 fire fighters and 9 operations chiefs. Do these people do this job full-time, or do they have other responsibilities?
Mr. Langelier: They are fire fighters with the normal responsibilities of a fire fighter who is assigned to a fire station. They have an opportunity to train and to monitor their equipment inventory, but they are not assigned to those duties on a full-time basis, as human resources costs do not permit us to do so. They will be put together in teams, trained, and they will be prepared to take action, as required.
Senator Day: Does Ottawa have a similar team?
Mr. Langelier: Yes, absolutely. Ottawa has been very generous and, in recent months, has provided us with assistance upon request. I am very happy that the City of Gatineau has decided to set up its own team so that we could complement our services. We cannot see into the future, but Ottawa may need us some day and vice versa. If we can have 29 fire fighters and Ottawa has the same number or more, in terms of resources that are potentially available in the region, that enhances the situation for both municipalities.
Senator Day: You said that you received roughly $800,000 from the province?
Mr. Langelier: Yes.
Senator Day: Over a 10-year period, that makes about $82,000 a year. Is that enough?
Mr. Langelier: There is a bit of a funding shortage, because the city must finance the entire project. The city's contribution funds the project. Quebec has given us $824,000 in subsidies over 10 years. We must train our staff, purchase equipment and vehicles. That is why I said that federal subsidies were very welcome and helped convince our elected officials to approve this project.
Senator Day: You received $300,000 from the federal government?
Mr. Langelier: Yes.
Senator Day: Are there sufficient funds to buy equipment or are your needs more training-related?
Mr. Langelier: The amount will be enough to put equipment in place. Annual amounts will have to be set aside to update our resources.
Senator Day: Are planning and training the only things you lack at present?
Mr. Langelier: We recruit people who are already on staff to make up these teams. We must ensure that the equipment we acquire meets our needs. We are at the acquisition, training and planning stage. This is all being done at the same time.
The Chairman: Does the federal government's contribution extend over a 10-year period?
Mr. Langelier: No, this equipment must be purchased by March 31, 2003. That causes a problem for some equipment, because we need authorization from the Department of National Defence. We are working very hard to have the equipment before March 31, 2003, and there are legal deadlines to comply with. We would appreciate greater flexibility in the program. Despite our good intentions, several constraints are preventing us from complying with these deadlines.
Senator Day: Can you not pay in advance?
Mr. Langelier: There are procurement procedures to be respected under the Quebec Cities and Towns Act. It is very complicated and there are deadlines.
The Chairman: The equipment must be on hand.
[English]
Senator Banks: I know that this is a highly sensitive question and that it does not obtain in any other concentration of population of this size anywhere in the country, since it resides on both sides of a provincial border. Other cities are similar, one being in Alberta and Saskatchewan, Lloydminster, but they are not near this size. You answered in response to Senator Day that the efficacy of the capacity to respond in what is now Gatineau is much improved since the fusion of the municipalities. That is to be expected and normal. To take that reasoning further, it would follow that a similar fusion of emergency response capability that encompassed the National Capital Region would result if there were one and not two regional responses. I know the difficulties that that would pose; they are very clear. However, in the event we are talking about emergent circumstances — that is, urgencies of one kind or another — I would like you to reflect, so that we are better informed of your standpoint, on the impediments that would cause what, on the face it, seems to me a little like the tail wagging the dog. That is to say, there is a provincial border that, for reasons that are clear, stands in the way of what should otherwise, if all other considerations were equal, be a better capacity to respond to an emergency in the region as a whole, which, as you pointed out, is the fifth largest municipal area in the country.
You mentioned, for example, the possibility of a flood. At least one of the three rivers on which that might occur would flood on both sides, and having 29 firefighters on one side and however many on the other side and putting them together works only if the same person, in the same command, can talk to all of them at the same time and in the same way. That is just a microcosm of what I am talking about.
Would you please inform us as to the impediments to what, to a disinterested observer from Mars, might seem to be a logical thing to do as regards emergency response only?
[Translation]
Mr. Langelier: To solve the problem, a National Capital Region would have to be created. You mentioned impediments, there are several, including the main one, which is legal.
Now, legislation governing emergency preparedness and jurisdiction over police under the Police Act are legal constraints that have prevented us from setting up a single command unit. At present, we have excellent relations with our neighbours. The police, fire and ambulance services are accustomed to dealing with emergencies. The various stakeholders are very generous when confronted with situations like that.
The impediments revolve mostly around the jurisdiction. Jurisdictions are very well defined, be it for the police or the fire fighters. Of course, a police officer from Quebec, unless he has been assigned to an immediate pursuit, has no authority when he crosses over into Ontario, and the same thing prevails for Ontario police officers who cross over into Quebec. Operational directives are not the same, and equipment is not necessarily the same either.
We are in direct communication with Ottawa, and now, as regards written information and radio communication, we anticipate also being in direct communication. We would not go as far as to say that it would be easy to set up a single disaster response unit. I do think there would be many constraints.
Having said that, nothing is preventing us from working together, from complementing each other and supporting each other mutually. I am convinced that exchanging information is the route to take for now. We have submitted a complete copy of our emergency preparedness plan to the City of Ottawa, and the City of Ottawa has done the same. We will be meeting shortly to discuss mutual agreements.
The idea of a big response unit is good in the event of a disaster. However, the language barrier is a source of problems, as we are not all necessarily bilingual. For police officers and fire fighters, the legislation governing action is not the same. That is why there would be impediments to overcome if we did want to set up a team like that.
[English]
Senator Forrestall: Does the river pose a natural barrier that precludes any chance of getting together as one response unit? If someone blows up the bridges and you have only one unit, I would have thought that would have been a greater problem than language, or the legal problem because of one set of laws in Quebec and another in Ontario. When you are dealing with a pragmatic situation, the fellow in charge is not too worried about the language, nor is he too worried about the law. He has a body of professionals and they do what has to be done immediately. However, if they cannot cross the river, and all of the resources are on one side, you have a problem. I would have thought that would have been the major impediment to coming together.
[Translation]
Mr. Langelier: If the bridges were to collapse or other disasters were to occur, we would work hand in hand and we would help each other mutually. There has been a similar case where the Sûreté du Québec could not provide the necessary assistance, and it was the former police service of Aylmer that provided assistance.
When a boat sinks, if our teams are not available, we call upon the City of Ottawa. Whether we are on one side of the river or the other, I think that we are all part of a large regional family, but I do believe nevertheless that there is still room to improve the quality of our service.
[English]
The Chairman: Thank you for your presentation which has helped add to the information we have available to us.
To those following our work, please visit our Web site by going to www.sen-sec.ca. We post witness testimony as well as confirmed hearing schedules. Otherwise, you may contact the clerk of the committee by calling 1-800-267-7362 for further information or assistance in contacting the members of the committee.
This portion of the committee's meeting today is hereby adjourned and we will reconvene in the next room in camera.
The committee continued in camera.