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Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Aboriginal Peoples

Issue 13 - Evidence - Meeting of October 28, 2005


TSUU T'INA, ALBERTA, Friday, October 28, 2005

The Standing Senate Committee on Aboriginal Peoples met this day at 9:10 a.m. to examine and report on the involvement of Aboriginal communities and businesses in economic development activities in Canada.

Senator Nick G. Sibbeston (Chairman) in the chair.

[English]

The Chairman: The first witnesses are from Siksika Resource Developments Ltd., Clement Doore and Trent Blind. Welcome to our Aboriginal Peoples Committee and please feel free to begin.

Clement Doore, Chief Executive Officer, Siksika Resource Developments Ltd.: Good morning, everyone. I am glad to be here this morning. I am Clem Doore, the president and chief financial officer of our business arm; and to my right is our chief financial officer, Trent Blind. I suspect you got our copy. I will not go over it in detail. I was told I only have 10 minutes. I will take five and Trent will take five.

Back in 1997 the council of the day looked at our natural resources on the reserve, which included oil and gas, agriculture, sand and gravel, and to make a long story short, a committee reviewed those opportunities. At that time there were some existing companies already involved with some of those natural resources. In 1997 the council of the day decided to separate business and politics. How does that work? The chief and council are the shareholders, and they appoint the board of directors.

Siksika First Nation is about an hour east of here. It is the second biggest reserve in Canada. I think it is 178,000 acres. We belong to the Blackfoot Confederacy, which includes the Bloods, Peigans, the Blackfeet in Montana, and Siksika.

Within the administration, there are 14 departments that serve the people. In the business arm we have the companies that do the business. The administration departments have approximately 600 employees. In the business arm, we have approximately 40 employees. Our businesses include the Siksika Resource Developments Ltd., or SRDL, as the parent corporation, and under that there are a number of corporations that operate various businesses.

The first one I will mention is the irrigation system. We have irrigated about 5,000 acres at this time, and there are two companies involved in that project. One company purchased the irrigation pivots through a bank loan, and the second company leases the land, which is where the revenue is generated.

The second business is the office administration itself. We run the building, maintain it, and lease it out, and one company is involved with that.

The third company we are involved with is environmental. We have joint-ventured with two companies in the Calgary area to do environmental contracts.

Our flagship is the oil and gas. There is a lot of oil and gas activity on Siksika reserve, and there are two companies involved with that.

The fifth business that we are involved in is the sand and gravel. One company is involved with that.

The sixth business is a summer cottage resort. There are approximately 300 lots that we leased out back in the 1970s, and the head lease is up for renewal in 2013.

We have entered into joint ventures. The oil and gas company has joint ventures with approximately six companies here in Calgary, and we have a working interest in those six companies, anywhere from 25 per cent to 50 per cent. We also have a joint venture in the sand and gravel. There is a company here in Calgary that we are working with. On the environmental side, we have joint ventures with two companies.

In the document, we state our vision statement, our mission statement and our mandate. Back in 1997, the council of the day had goals and objectives. The first goal that they had established for us, the business arm, was to increase net revenues. We are very aware that the transfer payments coming from the federal government are depleting every year. In the meantime, the population is increasing, so we supplement the budget. The second goal was to maintain a long-term, viable business or investment strategy that we could use to run our businesses. The third goal was to provide employment opportunities in all these business areas or in the joint ventures that we have negotiated. The fourth goal was to start developing an economy with a sound base.

The shareholders are our chief and council and they appoint a board of directors. Under the board of directors there is the audit committee, the investment committee and the executive committee.

In your document there is a section that refers to the partnership policy that we use. That partnership allows us to have access to management expertise. It provides employment and skills transfer. It provides access to additional capital and reduces the risk because it is spread out among our partners, and it reduces the developing and operating costs. Those are shared with our partners. We have access to a client base that perhaps our joint ventures will bring to the table. We also would have access to major developments.

Since we started in 1997, lots of companies have approached us, and, unfortunately, they have a great idea that will make us rich, but they do not have any money themselves. They think we have access to capital from the Department of Indian Affairs. Some actually think that I can just pick up the phone and say, "Hello, this is Clem, I need $5 million. I have this wonderful idea and I would like to invest, would you help me out?" Because of the lack of communication with or awareness of the general public, this is the perception.

We established a partnership agreement in which we will ask the company that wants to do business to state what they would like to see happen, what is the purpose of their interest, how much money they have, what are the strengths and weaknesses of the company, the management skills and so on. It is in your handouts. After we developed that document, whenever somebody phoned, we would either fax or mail that to that company, and nine times out of ten that is where it stops. It does not go any further.

Now I will turn over the second half of our presentation to Trent, the chief financial officer, who will talk about the financial information.

Trent Blind, Chief Financial Officer, Siksika Resource Developments Ltd.: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, Elders, senators and guests. On behalf of Siksika, I am very proud to talk about the performance of our companies and where we plan to be in the next five years.

As Clement has mentioned, we do have an investment strategy, one that will focus first on our core investments that utilize the nation's hydrocarbon, mineral, water and land resources; and second, our strategy will focus on areas that are not necessarily related to our natural resources but where there are investment opportunities for long-term sustainable development. The idea here within our group of companies is to develop our non-renewable resources to assist in developing that long-term sustainable development.

How have we performed in the past? To date, we have in excess of $30 million net book value in assets with current market values in excess of $60 million. Our total liabilities are just under $7 million, with current market value of just under $7 million. Our shareholders, the chief and council, have made investments to date of $7.1 million in our companies and our retained earnings are in excess of $13 million net book value and in excess of $50 million market value. Therefore our total equity to date that we have grown in our companies is in excess of $20 million net book value and just under $60 million in current value.

In the last five years we have seen a return on our shareholders' investment of anywhere from just under 9 per cent to over 65 per cent, and a return on our equity of anywhere from 5.5 per cent to 60 per cent. We have had some good success over the last five years.

Our plans for the next five years, however, include a large investment requirement. Potential investments that we have identified include oil and gas, $45 million; irrigation, $25 million. We want to expand our current irrigation project from 5,000 acres to just less than 15,000 acres. We envision investing $10 million in the industrial park and $2 million on our resort. Then we have set aside an identified $3 million for some of our other longer-term sustainable development. We plan on investing a total of $85 million in the next five years.

Where will we get our money? We have identified that as well, and we will generate $15 million from our internal cash flow. We will also receive from our land claim settlements some of the interest income from our Siksika trust, $7 million. We are also contemplating selling off some of our existing assets to the tune of $35 million, and of course we will be approaching our financial institutions for debt financing in the amount of $20 million. We are currently in negotiations with the provincial government over the Bassano Dam, and we expect to receive for our investments $12 million, and then $2 million in revenue from our resort, for a grand total of $91 million.

What are some of the benefits of these investments? New capital will be invested in the nation. Siksika Resource Developments Ltd. will generate new added-value income from the nation's natural resources. Siksika Resource Developments Ltd. will grow its assets and income to offset the decline in the nation's non-renewable resources, and new investment will create jobs and business opportunities for our members.

I wish to thank you today for giving us the time and opportunity to present some of the successes and history of our group of companies.

Senator St. Germain: Thank you, gentlemen, for coming. You obviously epitomize success in what you have done and what you are doing. Do you have a long-range plan as to what happens when these non-renewable resources run out? Is this why you are moving into the agricultural side to a degree?

Mr. Doore: Yes. We have actually calculated when the oil and gas will be depleted, maybe completely. That is why we are looking at the industrial park at this time. We are also in the process of doing an overall investment strategy that may include purchasing real estate off the reserve, buying a company and so on. Yes, we are doing that at this time.

Senator St. Germain: I am looking at the map here. Originally, your territory extended from the North Saskatchewan River, Cypress Hills and Rocky Mountains to Yellowstone National Park, and then on this map, "Siksika First Nation," right at the beginning, there is a grey-shaded area. Are you still in negotiations for any of this land, or have you settled?

Mr. Doore: I think that has been settled.

Senator St. Germain: We are doing an economic study. We are trying to establish why some of our Aboriginal nations have achieved such economic success, whereas others seem to struggle in spite of the fact that they may have access to resources. Could you tell us what you feel is the most important ingredient in the success that you have been able to achieve?

Mr. Doore: I will give my part of the answer, and I will let Trent answer also. I think the key decision made by the council of the day was to separate business and politics. That allowed the business arm to operate like a business, and we have not had any political interference, so to speak. By that, I mean council has not come to a board meeting and said, "No, we disagree with the board of directors," or "No, this is what we want to do," and so on. The second issue is we are fortunate enough to have oil and gas on the reserve. That certainly generated access to capital. The third point is the people who eventually work for the business arm are all committed. They are all First Nation members.

I think those are the three elements of success. As a result, companies in the city of Calgary tend to want to do business with us because they know that there is no politics involved. I think that speaks volumes about that decision.

Mr. Blind: To add to what Clement has said, I think the other key ingredient in the success of Siksika and their group of companies has been the partnerships with industry in all facets of our business. We talked about the aggregate company. It is in partnership with BURNCO. Our environmental company is in partnership with Golder & Associates and Alpine Environmental. Then we also have our partnerships with oil and gas companies. They all bring management expertise, knowledge and capital, and it is through those partnerships that we have managed to build the experience of our people, learn about these various industries and also have access to those markets.

Senator St. Germain: Have you utilized outside advisers, non-band members, at all? This has come up in our study so far and I am wondering whether you have utilized them as advisers to your board of directors.

Mr. Doore: Yes, when the company was implemented in 1997 nine board members were originally appointed, three from band council, three band members who were involved in business, and in our case that was mostly agricultural, and three from industry — one from the oil and gas business, another was a lawyer with corporate experience, and the third was an agriculturist. That is how we got started, but we do not use those any more.

Senator Lovelace Nicholas: I just have one question. Are any archaeological studies done before these developments?

Mr. Doore: We have not experienced that, no.

Senator Zimmer: Thank you for your presentation. It is very impressive, especially that you even included a five-year plan in there. One of my causes in the Senate is youth. I notice you have two elementary schools, a high school and a community college, and it is obvious that you place high importance on education. The community college, I presume, is a technical college. What types of disciplines do you train there? What type of teaching do you have and how large is your enrolment?

Mr. Doore: The community college is a post-secondary institute. They prepare students for university training. The high school is where we hope to get the future leaders. In fact, we established a scholarship to encourage our students. We have been very successful at Siksika Nation with our teachers. We have three schools, the high school and two elementary. I would say about 80 per cent of the teachers are members of Siksika First Nation.

Senator Zimmer: I presume that you encourage them to take a career path what will eventually lead to managing and working within your companies?

Mr. Doore: We will do that from time to time. We will be invited to the high school, for example, and maybe our senior managers will go over there and explain what their department is doing.

Senator Zimmer: Your spoke of the selling off of assets for $35 million. What assets are you intending to sell off?

Mr. Blind: Right now we are contemplating some of the depleting oil and gas properties. Because the industry is at an all-time high, we are looking at the possibility of selling some of those properties to other companies that see potential in them.

Senator Christensen: The SRDL was created, you said, in 1994, right?

Mr. Doore: 1997.

Senator Christensen: But you started your economic development process in 1994?

Mr. Doore: Yes.

Senator Christensen: What effects have you seen in your community as a result of this economic development and the process that you have set up? What changes have taken place?

Mr. Doore: That is an ongoing process. The first point is there is a continuous interest from community members in what is going on. They want to know where the investment dollars are going, and they want to know, "Did you make any money?"

As far as any changes are concerned, they are supportive. They want to see us expand. I think the main issue is for them to be involved, to be informed as to what is happening.

Senator Christensen: What about housing, an uptake in education, a decrease in some of the social problems in the area? Have you seen these things happening?

Mr. Doore: We are not directly involved with that. That is the administration side of things.

Senator Christensen: I am just thinking of the community itself. I know you are not directly involved, but as a member and watching the community, how has it grown as a result? Have positive things happened in the community?

Mr. Blind: If I can speak to that, if you look at our two concepts of economic development, one is jobs and income and the other is nation building. We are leaning towards nation building, and I will share with you the significance of the financial impact of the group of companies. Right now the nation's annual income is just under $100 million, including from our group of companies. Our group of companies this year will generate almost $22 million in gross revenues. That represents a quarter of the nation's annual budget, and yet we employ 40 people in our group of companies and 640 are employed on the administration/government side. We represent 5 per cent of the overall employment of the nation, yet we generate 25 per cent of the annual budget.

If we continue along those lines, of concentrating first on growing our revenues and our profitability, the jobs will follow with our success, but we are not simply creating economic development for job creation for our members. It is with that philosophy that we are looking at constantly improving our bottom line, our net income and return on investment for our shareholders.

I see that as a significant contribution to the community, and again, we are trying to replace that non-renewable resource with long-term sustainable development by creating the industrial park, by expanding our irrigation project. The irrigation project is the most profitable of all the companies, and we mitigate our risk on that project by the crops that we grow. We diversify the crops, and we also diversify the number of tenants that we lease our lands to. Our profit margin in that company alone varies from 48 per cent to 52 per cent annually, so it is, by far, our most profitable venture and one we want to expand, because as long as the sun shines, the grass grows and the rivers flow, we will always have income from that project.

Senator Christensen: Again, just to get back to the communities themselves, the young people and the Elders, who are not necessarily eligible or in a position to be taking advantage of jobs, how do they see their quality of life being improved as a result of the nation being so successful in economic development?

Mr. Blind: If we go back to the fact that we are generating 25 per cent of the nation's overall annual budget, some of the monies that we pay in dividends to our shareholders go into supporting the programs and services that assist the elderly, our youth, and the programs that are offered to them, such as education.

Senator Christensen: Since 1994, all those social programs for the elderly and for the youth, and education, have expanded, housing is better, and there are more children graduating from high school because they see the opportunities?

Mr. Blind: Yes, that would be a fair assessment, and if we take a look at our history since 1997, had Siksika not set up the group of companies, we would not have realized $85 million in value added that we have created. It would have been just continuous funding from the federal government that would have supported the programs and services.

Senator Christensen: The point is it does not matter how successful economic development projects are unless the communities and the people are benefiting from it. Money does not do any good just creating more and more economic development if people are not growing with it.

Mr. Blind: I would say that the 40 new jobs that we have created through our economic development have had a positive impact, because each of those individuals employed with our community has family members who are positively impacted by that employment with our group of companies.

Senator Peterson: I noted in your presentation that you did not indicate any dissatisfaction or problems with INAC. Now, this may be because you are so successful you can work around them, but I was just wondering if there were some issues where, if things were changed or streamlined, you would be even more successful.

Mr. Doore: We let the shareholders mostly deal with INAC. We do not get involved with them directly because we are the business arm and work with the shareholders, the chief and council. However, from time to time we will have to deal with them. We have been negotiating a head lease in the industrial park for about a year now. They keep changing the clauses, and they are not satisfied with this and that, but that is the only major obstacle that I have seen from Indian Affairs.

The other obstacle is under the Indian Act. We get our investment dollars from the chief and council, and to access some money from Ottawa, they have to draft a BCR — the purpose, how much money and so on — and that can take anywhere from three to six months. In the meantime, business will not wait around. The Bank of Montreal has a branch right on the reserve, and they have been very cooperative. We have also established a line of credit with the Alberta Treasury Branch that is working really well. The Bank of Montreal had to have guarantees from the chief and council, and the Alberta Treasury Branch did not. They simply took SRDL, as the parent corporation, as security.

Senator Peterson: Just one further question, because it has come up with others. Is the biggest difficulty with your business development park trying to establish the value and term of the leases and INAC's acceptance of them?

Mr. Blind: Where we are running into some difficulty with INAC is, yes, that issue on value, but also the ability to mortgage on reserve lands, to take the head lease, sublease, and then assign those leases to lenders.

The other issue that has been tabled is the ability to provide adequate replacement insurance in the event, say, a facility burned down. We find that some of the requirements of the Department of Justice on the head lease are somewhat limiting the insurance industry in being able to provide adequate insurance coverage.

Senator Peterson: Why would the insurance be a problem? I do not understand that one.

Mr. Blind: The Department of Justice is asking us in the wording of the head lease to have insurance in place that would, in the event of a facility burning down, fully replace the value of that facility. That is creating some difficulty for us, in the sense that the insurance companies are somewhat reluctant to provide insurance on the basis of full replacement cost. Maybe it is because of rising prices, the consumer price index, I am not sure, but that is where we are at right now.

The Chairman: Thank you very much for your presentation and the answers to the questions that have been posed. We wish you well in your endeavours.

Mr. Doore: Thank you.

The Chairman: Senators, our next witness is Mr. William Big Bull.

Welcome to our Senate Aboriginal Peoples Committee. Feel free to begin.

William Big Bull, Energy Manager, Piikuni Utilities Corporation: Good morning to all. I will start in my language.

[Mr. Big Bull spoke in his Native language.]

Good day to the distinguished committee members here today. I hope I can reflect the concerns that face our communities in a fair and honest manner. I thank you for selecting me to speak to the panel and for hearing my views. My bio reflects my history, the work I have done on behalf of the Piikani Nation and on the entities that have made an impact on our lives. I thank the Tsuu T'ina for hosting the hearing and congratulate them on their present ventures.

I do not want to come across as speaking on behalf of other Aboriginal peoples or ahead of the good work that is under way in many communities. I have styled my presentation to answer the questions through the body of the writing. To attempt to answer specifically the questions in a certain format is a little difficult and would not capture the background, the reasoning and the history that justify or confirm the issues.

The opening of the presentation reflects a historical perspective not unfamiliar to the committee when speaking to other Aboriginal peoples of this land. It will help to qualify longstanding issues that remain unresolved and factor into present economic initiatives.

At the time of the first contact, Siksikaitsitapi Blackfoot Confederacy occupied a territory that ranged as far east as present day Manitoba, and west over the eastern range of the Rocky Mountains and the present states of Montana, Washington and northern Wyoming. At later times, the territory as defined by our oral history was from the North Saskatchewan, Om'k iit'taa; to the Cypress Hills, I'kimikoo; to the Yellow Stone River, Ot'kwiit'taa; to the Columbia River and Tobacco Plains in British Columbia. Our traditional leaders formed alliances through our traditional treaty making, or Inyiistyukukstimaan, for the protection and preservation of our hunting grounds, trade and lifestyle from time immemorial.

The Piikani Nation, formerly Peigan Nation, a member of the Blackfoot Confederacy, is located between the communities of Fort McMurray and Pincher Creek. The Piikani Nation has enjoyed a longstanding relationship and tradition with the land. Our history with the land is affirmed through our use of the land from time immemorial, our vibrant and dynamic history in how we relate to the land, language and our traditions, and have been preserved for present and future generations. Our people maintain our ownership of our traditional territory and established boundaries, which are marked by rivers and mountain ranges. This message was conveyed at the treaty talks with the Queen's representatives and commissioners at Treaty 7. The primary factors that concerned all parties were the land and resources and the preservation of the environment for present and future generations.

The purpose of the Crown is clear, as stated in the annual report of the Department of the Interior:

The necessity which has arisen for making the treaty is thus stated by the Hon. the Minister of the Interior, the Hon. David Mills, in Annual report for 1877.

He states:

The conclusions, in 1876, of the treaty with the Cree, Assiniboine and Saulteaux Indians (being the sixth of the series of treaties up to that time negotiated with the Indians of the North-West) left but a small portion of the territory lying between the boundary line and the 54th parallel of latitude unsurrendered.

The unsurrendered portion of the territory, including about fifty thousand square miles, lies at the south-west angle of the territories, north of the boundary line, east of the Rocky Mountains, south of the Red River (Treaty Number Six) and west of the Cypress Hills, or Treaty Number Four. This portion of the North-West is occupied by the Blackfeet, Blood, and Sarcees —

He makes a clerical error.

— or Peigan Indians, some of the most warlike and intelligent but intractable bands of the North-West. These bands have for years past been anxiously expecting to be treated with, and have been disappointed at the delay of negotiations.

The Peigan, or Piikani, Reserve no. 147 and no. 147B was surveyed and confirmed as a reserve under the Indian Act in 1882 under Treaty No. 7. Upon the establishment of the Peigan Reserve 147 and 147B in 1882, it was officially set aside by Order in Council in 1889, the reserve confirmed and containing 116,000 acres.

The Peigan Reserve was exempted from the operation of the Dominion Land Act by Order in Council in 1893. Under section 90(a) of the Dominion Land Act, the exception required that any land instruments to affect the common use and benefit of the Piikani Nation required the consent of the Piikani people and a band council resolution. The purpose of a BCR is to instruct the Minister of Indian Affairs to issue a permit or other land instruments as set out in the Indian Act.

Under the terms of the Indian Act, the Piikani Nation chief and council have developed what is called band custom in our approach to allotment of land to our members. This policy has developed into our present system of land management. The system of allotment is for our purposes, without having to exercise the provisions of the act. Even though the act requires a system of registry, the method of allocating land is through a BCR. This internal system of registry reflects what we term our traditional use of our lands for our purposes. Certain lands were set aside for communal and spiritual purposes based upon our traditions.

The use of land for traditional and ceremonial purposes is exercised on a need-for-use basis, which does not require the consent of council. This is a tradition that has been passed down from generation to generation without question. This leads into the doctrine of our traditional use of the land, which does not reflect ownership, only custodianship of its use. The free use of and access to land for our spiritual needs as a community have always been a paramount consideration in the decisions concerning maintenance of our tradition.

The last time I checked into our local history, our ancestors' stories were still written in the rocks and verified by the natural features in our backyard, some 200,000 square miles. The names of sites significant to our people are still referred to as though the events that led to their naming were yesterday. I did not see any dollar signs inscribed in any of these stories. What I did see was great wonder, and appreciation of the struggle of our ancestors to ensure that their eternal message of life was carried on. Those who can interpret these complex concepts are few, due to the drastic change in our lifestyles. Our ancestors left all the signs and the mother tongue to interpret these messages. This knowledge is preserved in our language. We need only speak it to understand.

In our practice of our culture, the identity and relationship with the land is the foundation of our lifestyle. The pristine and natural state of the land, with unquestioned use and access for ceremonial purposes, is how we continue the philosophical ideals of our tradition.

The foundation of our laws is based on our spirituality and the principle of first use, whereby spiritual purposes took precedence over other interests which otherwise would have had free access and use. The disturbance or desecration of these sites was dealt with on the level of a criminal act and punished accordingly. Although the needs of our community have changed, the doctrine of protection of our spiritual and historical sites continues to be maintained.

Herein lies the situation with lands designated as reserves under the Indian Act by virtue of treaty and those lands under Aboriginal title, where the First Nation interests were never extinguished. The courts, the Crown and First Nation governments have all taken a position on title. The dilemma is that the people whom these decisions affect have not been consulted. Our fiduciary INAC is entrusted with the responsibility of ensuring that these developments accrue to the benefit of the band as laid out in the Indian Act.

The implementation of the Indian Act and the treaty relationship with the Crown created the responsibility for the protection of our lands and resources. The responsibility that the Crown assumed on our behalf for management of our lands was implemented under the guidance of section 91(24) of the BNA Act. The creation of reserves under the Indian Act could not proceed until the Crown had assumed title to land under the treaty process.

We base our existence on advocating our treaty rights and misinterpret our rights that flow from the Indian Act as treaty rights. Who benefits from the treaty? Look around at who benefits and controls our financial and natural resources. This flows from the lack of understanding of the treaty language and the failure to have a meeting of the minds in Treaty No. 7.

The present-day leadership is the result of the methodical indoctrination of the colonial system of government based on the sovereignty of one nation, one leader. This method of forsaking our right to govern under our traditional governments is well preserved in the present reserve system, which is based on a paternalistic, wardship style of self-government. Our decisions are based on reacting to a system of land claims, poverty and crisis management imposed upon us by the same government we rely on to protect our rights based on our treaty. We continue to believe that if we stay on this road, we will somehow achieve autonomy for ourselves under the present central government system.

When we look at our communities as First Nations, we do not see things the way developers do. Instead, we see increased resistance to changing the way we exploit our resources and what kind of partnerships we form. The drive to do away with paternalistic dependence is on the plate of First Nations and government. The conditioning to do only what INAC, or BIA in the United States, allows has done considerable damage to our collective values and our communities. We have now assumed that these are inherent rights, when in fact they are driven by the scheme of our constitutions in the Americas.

First Nation land and resources have been and continue to be the cornerstone of our identity, of our institutions. The foundation of our lifestyle is now changing to focus on resource development on a scale capable of allowing participation as real players in the mainstream economy. Resources and policy need to be instituted to change the way we achieve these goals.

A boilerplate type of model needs to be developed that can be implemented on our lands without compromising First Nation interests. Areas of corporate, environmental and tax laws are now being challenged based on treaty and Aboriginal rights. It is time for First Nations to take their rightful place in society as leaders and innovators of creative technological advances in the modern world by incorporating our traditional values into the process.

In the brief I go into some of the terms expressing that. The limitations imposed by conflicting legislation, federal and provincial: access to land under the Indian Act, the section 28.2 situation, where First Nations need access to land for purposes other than agriculture. We are now looking at developing energy projects. The act was developed to compromise the treaty process, and so most of the land instruments in there are more directed towards agricultural purposes. Therefore it creates limitations on the capacity of tribes to look at expanding those values that they have now identified; the section 35 taking of lands, what they call the expropriation provisions of the act, and band custom. These land issues are one of the stumbling blocks that most First Nation communities are facing today; the issue of being able to create chattels and to access and take the value from those, where in this case, the act dictates that a tribe has to designate land first before they can create a chattel or surrender lands for economic purposes; the non-taxable entity situation where, in this case, you are developing these renewable energy projects. The Canadian renewable and conservation expense credit and the class 43.1 expense credit created by the Crown under the Renewable Energy Strategy should have included the words "Indians need not apply," because of the tax situation.

They have to be megaprojects to be viable. To be able to capture that side of the equation is really the challenge before everybody today, how you can create those values.

There is the situation with royalties and how those are captured by the Crown before the First Nation can grab its values.

It is ironic that when you are in a room where people are signing oil and gas agreements, there is always someone sitting there waiting to take the cheque on behalf of the Crown. Those situations really undermine our capacity to take the best value from the land and to grandfather any opportunities that are available under legislation, under the Indian Act.

Policy-driven decisions are inconsistent with times of change, in this case, legal precedents, provincial and federal. We have relied on our treaties and legislation to protect our rights. By doing so, we have limited our capacity to become real players in the open market. Somehow, we are branded with the terms of legislation. These acts dictate any development on our lands. Once we exhaust these powers, we meet a wall of legal resistance and bureaucracy that prevents development of our resources. We have become conditioned to having courts determine our rights. Rather than pursuing development comparable to mainstream society, we have become embroiled in a struggle to protect our rights and against encroachment on our resources, internally and externally.

The problem facing First Nation communities is that opportunities for resource development become almost inaccessible due to the waiting game instituted by government. By the time policy is implemented, the opportunities are captured by someone other than First Nations.

Chiefs and councils must occupy the field of law in order to assert jurisdiction on reserve. This requires bylaw development that encapsulates the desires of the community in administering matters of jurisdiction, for example, water, energy and industry. The appropriate regulatory authority must be incorporated into a process that is consistent with federal and provincial regulations.

Local political representation is inconsistent with regional disparities. On the national scale, areas such as Alberta are rated as tier 1 and First Nations as tier 4 or less. This does not qualify us for the level of assistance afforded other, have-not provinces.

To build on the opportunities, we have to incorporate traditional knowledge into the framework to ensure the longevity of new partnerships. If the idea is marketable, it requires participation at a boardroom level, not through affirmative action but definitive action. This requires our people sitting at the table, not waiting for someone to decide what is best for us. The challenge before us is to get agreement at the decision-making level to realign the profit motive, with First Nations as part of the equation.

First Nation governments are in a constant reactionary position due to administrative operating regimes imposed by fiscal arrangements. The chief and council are legally responsible for managing our monies and resources to benefit the membership. It is only with proper planning and good business practices that we can achieve economic self-sufficiency.

There is apprehension about accepting modern solutions outlined in the land claims and treaty process. The incapacity to build outside the box is driven by the land claim solutions, which have stalled at headquarters the purchasing of lands to take advantage of existing opportunities.

The resources and land base that our leaders believed we were sharing have been relinquished, according to the treaty language. Even though we continue to discuss with government the terms and conditions that have failed us, we still have not challenged the validity of the treaty and whether it was ever properly ratified under constitutional law. The process of law in relation to contracts, deeds and land instruments requires that these documents be properly executed and signed by lawful parties to the contract. We have to accept in no uncertain terms that our leaders did not legally sign away our lands and resources by an X, and most certainly did not relinquish our right to govern ourselves or sacrifice our societies and traditional governments, at the expense of our people.

As a prerequisite to entering into the claims negotiations, the process for resolution requires us to again release land and claims by referendum. The majority of our membership does not understand the implications of the end process for our communities and the impact on our rights. Only a small percentage of our population has the level of education to appreciate the terms embodied in the agreements. The great majority do not have the capacity to understand the legal language that precedes resolution in the settlement document or minutes of settlement. The majority of our people still rely on oral tradition and what our leaders say. This has led to community members interpreting the terms of settlement according to what our leadership says instead of the written text.

There is no profit motive in tribal governance. It is government funding that drives our communities. We do not want to jeopardize community interests by thinking outside the box. As long as we spend to a zero balance every year, we will maintain the status quo. We are, by far, one of the most economically disadvantaged communities in comparison to the wealth our lands generate for third-party interests. What is our fallback position? We need economic sustainability as our motive to regain our position as First Nations.

The opportunities to capitalize on benefits of projects are limited by the degree of input in upfront decision making. The problem is that the Crown agenda does not include or recognize the limits and restrictions imposed on First Nations by legislation and does not seem to do anything but watch us sink or swim. We have become all too familiar with the impact of these developments on our traditional territories, and the denial of mainstream society that First Nations have anything to do with the developments that have directly affected us. We have permanently lost sacred sites and burial grounds of our ancestors and hunting grounds of our fathers. This has created apprehension about entering into deals that can affect and have affected adversely our communities in the long term.

Opportunities have arisen in recent years in the field of green energy and available technologies have created immense growth in the industry that at one time was considered a passing thing. The ability to utilize natural sources to generate electricity through renewable technologies such as wind turbines, solar energy and biomass has increased opportunities for First Nations to invest in our energy sources.

This being said, the technology, in this case, wind turbines to generate electricity, has a low impact on the environment and has been certified to be 100 per cent green under the EcoLogo green power certification program. Conceptually, the project has the potential of using a natural-source energy that is renewable and does not deplete the resource or harm the environment over time. In comparison to other sources, such as thermal coal generation and hydro, it is clean energy. To measure the project benefit only in financial terms would be a great injustice and undermine the contributions and other externalities that the project brings.

I will reflect on the development of the wind industry in Alberta and, hence, Piikuni Utilities Corporation's involvement. Everything has to start somewhere. In this case, a small farmer, Ed Sinnot from Pincher Creek, put the first turbine in his yard to generate electricity. Concurrently, the Piikani Nation had entertained this idea since the early 1970s. This resulted in 1990 in the Piikani, along with Chinook Projects Inc., pursuing the largest — 9.9 megawatts — wind farm in Canada. Unfortunately, the utility industry was not supportive of wind power, and the Piikani leadership chose against locating the wind farm in Piikani. This resulted in the project being located at Cowley Ridge, west of Piikani, in Alberta.

The industry here has since mushroomed into the largest area for wind farm development in Canada to date, with installed capacity of 269 megawatts in Alberta. In Canada there are 439 megawatts installed. Our first turbine, Weather Dancer 1, was commissioned in 2001 and is the first large-scale and tallest wind turbine located on First Nation lands in America. Piikani Nation is now pursuing a 300-megawatt wind farm.

As a First Nation entity, we recognize our dilemma and have built a foundation over the last 22 years. Our office has been clear on our vision of becoming a wholly owned First Nation utility and has willingly promoted development to prove that we are sincere. Our integrated energy strategy, which is awaiting final approval by INAC, and the work plan approved by the chief and council, spell out a route based on respecting First Nation interests and not compromising those interests by entering into an agenda that would deviate from these principles.

PUC has developed a cohesive unit with little or no financial support from our administration to meet our goals. We have realized that we need the right support, technically and financially, to accomplish our objective.

In summary, our project would provide a source of revenue from the transmission and distribution of electricity generated from wind energy. An independent administrative structure that can deal with the day-to-day monitoring of our financial assets is crucial to the long-term success of the project.

The overall project is capable of creating economic benefits from a natural resource that is good for the environment and supports our values in relation to our philosophies and traditions as the Piikani Nation. We need to promote and support our economic projects. We realize that we are not a resource-rich tribe, along with other First Nations. We cannot afford to turn away opportunities and deny our membership and future generations the right to succeed as a people.

The Chairman: Thank you very much, Mr. Big Bull.

Senator St. Germain: Thank you, sir, for making the presentation here this morning. Do you have outside partners, or are you doing this on your own?

Mr. Big Bull: I have here a PowerPoint presentation on the goals and operations of the Piikani Utilities Corporation. It contains the information that we have. When we initially approached the utility industry, which at that time was a vertically integrated system run by three major corporations, our assertion was that they were using our lands and we were not benefiting. That is the case across Canada. For all of these transmission lines that run across First Nation properties, there was a first-time payment, maybe $3,000, sometimes less, and then a one-dollar transaction payment.

We realigned the thinking and said, "Well, the scheme of the act says that we are supposed to benefit from these lands. The common use and benefit theory in the Indian Act is that it accrues to the benefit of the tribe."

We approached these utility companies and said, "Listen, we have a situation here that will come back to haunt you in the future." We have a real interest in looking at our own energy issues, and at least having an audience or a venue where we can speak to these issues. When we approached the utility companies and asked if they would be interested in talking with us, we basically got a cold reception. However, we did not give up, and after about 15 years of going back and forth with the utility companies, we were able to start breaking some ground.

One of the fundamental factors that drove that, and that helps me answer your question, was the reserve land base is not going anywhere. We are not going anywhere. We have not gone anywhere for thousands of years, and we intend to be here tomorrow. That compelled the utility companies to listen more seriously to what we were doing. We initially approached one of the major companies in Alberta, but they refused us. We approached them again, and they refused us again. Therefore, we approached EnerCan under the Renewable Energy Strategy and asked if there was an opportunity for them to look at our development of wind power and to assist us. We were able to identify an agency under the Crown that would at least be a sounding board for our issues.

Chinook Projects Inc., presently Vision Quest, was our original partner. We had a 9.9-megawatt allocation of power. We also had a 20-year contract at a very good price at that time, and it is still a good price for power today.

We were walking the floor looking for investors. One of the things we were trying to do in talking to investors was to make the case for development on First Nation lands. Therein was the apprehension, our inability to create the type of chattel that was required without having to possibly have a referendum, and so that reluctance remained.

However, as we continued to persevere, we did speak to the company EPCOR, who were very receptive. It was refreshing to talk to someone who was interested in an opportunity. Because they are a municipally owned utility — they are owned by the City of Edmonton — there were a number of relative situations that were comparable. Because they are not a taxable entity as a municipality and the First Nation is not taxable either, we were able to entertain a model that would give us the ability to pursue financing. We then approached EPCOR for a contract. Because these wind power projects are driven by long-term contracts or what is called a contract for difference, we were able to negotiate a contract before we got financing.

We again went back to companies like TransAlta and put in a bid, but because we did not have a turbine standing, it is like everything else, if you do not put your dollar down, you cannot play. We were able to go back to EPCOR and convince them to invest in our project. It is really the development model that is the driver here. I spent so much time in my presentation reflecting on the lands because we were not prepared to give up any more lands. I do not think any tribe is prepared to give up any more lands. However, the position of the Crown was that you had to now designate land for a footprint of a wind turbine that takes no more land than any of these steel towers, these 240 kv or 540 kv steel towers.

We had to go back and make the case to INAC and the justice department, and make it absolutely clear that they were not taking any more of a footprint than any of these steel towers, and that once they are decommissioned, they could be removed and the land restored to its natural state. It is that lobby that put that in motion and made it attractive.

There was a court case that was a driver in allowing this to happen. Rather than having to designate land, we chose the least limiting land instrument, the 28.2 land permit. That gave us the capacity to secure the project through a joint venture.

On behalf of the tribe, the Piikuni Utilities Corporation applied to the chief and council, not one of the utility companies. We were then able to assign that permit to the joint venture, which created the chattel. It then allowed us to capture these CRCE credits on First Nation lands and we were able to create the opportunity. That is the fundamental method by which we have been approaching all of these other investors and saying, "Listen, there is an opportunity to bring a 51/49 type of relationship to the table; we are not prepared to discuss anything less." We have set down our terms, but they do meet our needs and they do meet the investor's terms.

Senator Zimmer: Over the past five days we have heard that INAC rules, regulations and administration slow down some projects, even to the point of a lost opportunity. I am very interested in the wind power venture, your integrated energy strategy. You indicated you are waiting for some decisions from INAC. Is there a possibility that delays caused by their policies or administration could jeopardize the project?

Mr. Big Bull: Absolutely. I am glad you asked that, because that is the sore spot in talking about these projects. I will go back to what I said about the development model. We had to convince the justice department that this land designation process would put us in a position where we would end up just spinning our wheels, going back to the community and asking them to surrender a quarter of an acre of land for a wind turbine. The situation was that utility companies across the country are not required to do a land designation for transmission lines, substations or distribution lines, but when we wanted to develop our own business, we were hit with the book. We then had to go back and suggest to the department, maybe it is the process, the way that the permit is developed. They like to have these boilerplate-type permits and agreements that they can hand around, and what is good for the goose is good for the gander. We were not prepared to create a type of permit that was unnecessary, so we had to convince the justice department to amend their permit to allow us to include some of the terms of an energy project.

In the meantime, we lost a 750-kilowatt turbine, because nobody will sit out there and wait for us while we twiddle our thumbs. Business moves on fairly quickly. We were fortunate that the 900-kilowatt turbine that we did eventually invest in was on the market. You are dealing with wind real estate. You are not out there competing with conventional generation, coal-fired generation or hydro. Wind energy is its own industry. It has its values, but for it to be viable you need a large-scale project.

We have said, "Well, we have our first turbine up and we have this business model." They have now come back and said, "Hey, we made a mistake, you now have to go back and designate land for lease." We are now into that same long-drawn-out discussion. We have investors sitting in the back room, as we speak, with the money.

It is not only INAC but our band councils, and the point I am making here is when you are looking at a half-a-billion-dollar project, a 300-megawatt project, and a community that has nothing in the cupboard and a council that is trying to compete on those interests, again it is twofold. We now have the project, we have our master plan and we are ready to go. Now we are back to knocking that door down again with INAC.

Senator Zimmer: Thank you, sir; you made your point well.

The Chairman: Thank you very much, Mr. Big Bull, for the information you have provided to us today.

Mr. Big Bull: Thank you very much.

The Chairman: Senators, our next witness is Mr. Bert Crowfoot.

I believe you are a representative of the Aboriginal Multi-Media Society of Alberta, and you are the CEO, publisher and founder. Welcome to our committee, and please feel free to proceed.

Bert Crowfoot, CEO, Publisher and Founder, Aboriginal Multi-Media Society of Alberta: My name is Bert Crowfoot. I am originally from Siksika, which is about 100 kilometres east of here. My great-great-grandfather was the chief who signed Treaty 7. When I was first asked to make a presentation here, I was not sure exactly what to say or what you wanted to hear, because I am First Nation, my business is Aboriginal Media, but we are not really on a reserve.

I thought I would start with the story of how we got started, my own story. You have copies of my publications in front of you. When I was eight years old, I started my first job. My father put me on a tractor and told me, "Keep that wheel in that rut," and that is what I did. He hopped off, I was driving and looking, and I was really scared. He watched me for a while as I went around and around, and finally he saw that I would be okay, so he left. About lunchtime, he came back, jumped back on, let me go for lunch, and then left me on the tractor again. Over the next couple of years I learned how to shift. I started very young, and the reason I began with that story is to let you know that I got a strong work ethic from my parents. My father was many years ahead of the times when he wanted to use chemicals to irrigate. This is back in the 1950s and 1960s. My mother, if I did not behave, was there with a wooden spoon, and I was usually at the receiving end.

When I was 12 years old, I think my parents wanted to break the cycle that was happening with a lot of our people on the reserve, and I was sent away to live with a non-Native family in Calgary for grade 8. That was through a church program. It was voluntary. My parents said, "We feel that we need to get you to somewhere where you can better yourself." I went to high school in Edmonton, and I went to university down in Utah. When I first went to university, I was in pre-med, and having way too much fun before I switched to physical education and recreation.

There are nine kids in my family. There are 22 college degrees among those kids. Very few of us drink. I do not drink. I do not smoke. I am no longer a Mormon, but my family is. I have a brother and a sister who are dentists. My brother is a chief. He has an MBA. We have been very successful education-wise. I think the reason I do not drink is my father became very frustrated with the way things were on reserve, started drinking and lost everything. I saw that because of alcohol he lost everything, and that is when I decided that I did not want to drink.

When I got out of university, I came up here, where I was making silver and turquoise jewellery. A friend of mine called and said, "Would you like to write a story covering a basketball tournament down at Peigan?" So I did. He must have liked it because he asked me to cover a hockey tournament. That is how I got my start in media, through freelancing. I was offered a job as a sports reporter. I worked my way up to sports editor, became the editor.

There was some financial mismanagement at the organization and government pulled their funding in 1982. There I was with all these staff and I decided that I wanted to continue in the media business. I wrote a proposal, we got funding from the provincial and federal governments, and we started the Aboriginal Multi-Media Society in 1983.

Back then, my brother and I were at a family function, and he had a set of tapes called "Psychology of Winning" by Dr. Denis Waitley. I asked him if I could borrow those tapes, and I listened to them. "Psychology of Winning" is a lifestyle. It is a change in how you look at things. It is being positive.

There were 12 lessons and I listened to them for a week at a time, because I spent a lot of time on the road. A lot of it is being positive; when something negative happens, find the positive. I coached for 30 years. When you lose, what is the lesson? I incorporated a lot of these mental philosophies into coaching kids, and I found that if you have high expectations and let them know exactly what is expected of them, they will reach those expectations. They will achieve those goals. We did a lot of goal setting on my teams. I coached the 1993 Canada Games teams from Alberta, and I am used to working with the best of the best that this province has to offer when it comes to ladies softball athletes.

I carried that philosophy into my business. We had a goal-setting workshop in 1987, and one of our goals was to become self-sufficient. We wanted to be able to generate our own revenue. Now, we are a not-for-profit society, we are not a business, but we run our society like a business. We set some goals, and one of them was self-sufficiency — we also did a lot of other brainstorming — one was we wanted a 100,000-watt transmitter. One was we wanted to raise $1 million a year. We have radio bingo on air.

In 1989, the provincial government came to us and said that they were getting out of Native communications funding, and they gave us three years to become self-sufficient. In 1990, the federal government began a number of cutbacks, and in February of that year we were given six weeks to become self-sufficient. They eliminated the Native communications program, and nine out of eleven newspapers that were operating in Canada shut down.

I could sit there and say "poor us," but I decided to take immediate action. The day the cuts were announced, I cut my staff in half, from 24 employees to 12. We went from a weekly newspaper to a monthly newspaper. I had lost about 75 per cent of the money that I had coming in the door. About 15 per cent of our total revenue was self-generated. The other 85 per cent came from funding from different programs.

We sat back and said, "What is the lesson here? What are the opportunities coming out of this happening to us?" Then we began to realize that there was a void across Canada after the shutdown of these newspapers, and with that, Windspeaker went national. When that happened, we quit covering the local news, and we started hearing from the communities, saying, "Hey, you used to come out to our social events; what is happening?" We created Alberta Sweetgrass as a provincial publication. Then we heard the same thing from Saskatchewan, so we created Saskatchewan Sage, then B.C. Raven's Eye, then Ontario Birchbark. Now we had one national publication and four provincial publications.

We got into radio bingo because a lot of our funding was being cut back. Last year we generated close to $1 million in radio bingo. We have a 100,000-watt transmitter in the Moose Hills covering most of Northeastern Alberta. We have a 12-kilowatt down in Southern Alberta. We have a 12-kilowatt in Joussard in Northern Alberta. We have about 44 other 10-watt sites covering most of the First Nations in this province.

As I said, we ran it as a business. I heard earlier about a zero-balance concept that government seems to run on. When I first started this business, a lot of my board members or people that I dealt with were from First Nations band councils, and they said, "You have to spend all your money; you have to get rid of all of it." I said, "Why? I do not need to spend it." They said, "Yes, because if you do not spend that money, you will lose it." I thought for a minute, and I said, "Well, I am making my own money. I spent all of the government's money, but I did not spend mine, so I will keep it." As a result of that, we had about a quarter-million dollar nest egg when government cut funding in 1990, and that is what carried us through.

I was at a Conference Board of Canada meeting a couple of weeks ago, and some large corporations were there. This was for the First Nation advisory council, and they were talking about some of their issues in dealing with the First Nations. One of them was keeping politics out of economics, and I think Siksika addressed that this morning, in that they have set up an economic development board that has proven to be very successful. One of the problems is when there is a change in government, a lot of these big corporations have to go back to square one and start over with the new chief and council.

One person said, "I have a hundred jobs for Native people, and when we went looking for employees there were very few who qualified; they did not have the basic requirement of grade 12." A representative of the Manitoba chiefs association was there, and he went through all the statistics on unemployment and everything else. I said to the big business person who was sitting across the row, "You had a question earlier this morning about finding qualified people." There was a pretty good discussion there. An Elder who addressed the conference later talked about the same thing. He said that he was a prime example of what happened, in that he had to leave his community to get a better education. Therefore, I think one of the keys to economic development is education. We need to improve the level of education in a lot of these schools.

I was at a meeting on Wednesday night in Edmonton, where a gentleman was telling a story about a building with three doors, and he walked up to one door and tried to get in, but the door would not open. Then this non-Native guy walked by him, opened the door and walked in. He tried the door again and it still would not open. He stood back and looked over, and there was another door, but it was a revolving door. He walked over there and through the door, and all of a sudden he was scooped up and spun out the door again. He said he looked over and there was a third door, and some Indians had keys. They would open that door and walk in. And he said, "Why?"

We got into a pretty good discussion. I was a little annoyed with him. I told him, "Yes, I have a key to that building, but you know, I will either buy that building or kick the door down, but one of the two ways, I intend to go in there." That is another reason that I have been successful and a lot of the people that I deal with are successful, attitude. I will not put up barriers that will prevent me from doing the things that I want to do. I intend to turn stumbling stones into stepping stones. I just have the attitude that when I set my mind to something, I will do it. As I said, last year we generated over $1 million from radio bingo. When we set some goals in 1987, a lot of them were not realistic then, but they were 15 years down the road.

I know a young man who lived on one of the reserves, and he did a lot of things that the young people do on reserves. He drank, smoked, did drugs and collected social assistance. He had no drive, no work ethic, none of that, yet he was a high school graduate. He moved into a better environment and all of a sudden he found a job and was feeling really good about himself. His self-esteem was getting better, and he was doing some of the things that all of us hope our kids will do some day. He went back to the reserve, started doing the same things the kids do there, and now he is back on social assistance, has no drive. A lot of that has to do with environment, with changing people's attitudes.

I went to a youth conference here in Calgary last February called The Young Entrepreneur Symposium. It is put on by the NAACC, National Association of Aboriginal Capital Corporations. There were about 120 young Aboriginal entrepreneurs there. I had been in a kind of rut for the last couple of years, went through some personal issues and was not really motivated, but I came out of that conference inspired. I was surrounded by energetic, focused young Aboriginal entrepreneurs. They inspired me. There was one individual by the name of Joe Cardinal from Saddle Lake, 23 years old, who started working for a construction company in Edmonton. He had a good boss who showed him all the ropes. He started his own business three years later and now he is framing for six of the top builders in the province. His problem is staff retention, but that does not slow him down. He keeps driving forward.

We have a new publication coming out next month called Business Quarterly. You have a flyer in front of you. We want to profile these young business people. We want to profile some of the successes. We are trying to do our part by providing role models and motivation and building self-esteem among our people. That, to me, is one of the primary purposes of our being in business.

One lesson we have learned is we need to diversify our income and not rely on one revenue stream. I know you have all heard of Adscam, and that had a direct effect on us, in that we lost about 25 per cent of our advertising dollars that used to come from the federal government. As a result, we have tried to diversify our advertising clients, to concentrate more on middle-sized and large corporations.

Getting back to education, I was at another conference in Toronto, put on by the National Aboriginal Achievement Foundation, called "Taking Pulse," where a CN representative said, "I need employees, but none of them qualify," much like the other guy had said earlier, "I need a hundred employees but nobody qualifies." CN has gone to four colleges, universities, post-secondary institutions, and worked out a curriculum with them. They can direct people to these programs, and when they graduate, they get jobs at CN. That is another example of something larger businesses can do.

At the Conference Board of Canada conference, what came from big business was "We will deal with First Nations first and then we will deal with government, because our objective is to do things immediately, whereas with government, a lot of times things are put into rotation and do not get done." That is unfortunate.

I will close with that. One of my philosophies throughout my life as a coach and as a business person has been, "Do not let winning go to your head or losing go to your heart."

Senator Lovelace Nicholas: Thank you very much for your speech. What is the level of education in your community?

Mr. Crowfoot: In my community? I was at an education awards night in Hobbema, and I was impressed with the number of graduates they had. I think they had something like 70 to 80 people graduating. I was talking to my sister, who is in charge of post-secondary education at Siksika, and she said they had close to 700 people in post-secondary programs. There are people from the reserve here, and I am sure that they would know the numbers better than I because I have not lived on the reserve for 30 years; I have been living in the city. However, I know that Siksika has had a good record when it comes to people completing their education. As the previous witnesses said, they had quite a few from the reserve teaching at the schools.

Senator Lovelace Nicholas: Do you think that Natives have to leave their communities in order to succeed, and why is that?

Mr. Crowfoot: I think if the opportunities are not in the communities, they have to leave, whether for education or for jobs, but if those opportunities were there, I do not think that need would be there.

Senator Zimmer: Just to follow up on the senator's question on education, do you have a plan or a program after people have graduated whereby you mentor them and guide them on a career path and into jobs?

Mr. Crowfoot: One of my dreams is to have a journalism program set up within my organization. That has been the personal focus of one of my reporters. We have met with NAIT, the Northern Alberta Institute of Technology, and looked at potential programs there. I am currently on the Strategic Alliance of Broadcasters for Aboriginal Reflection, in Toronto, which deals with all the major broadcasters, and they are looking at getting more brown faces in front of the cameras, behind the cameras. There is a possibility we could train people for them. I think mentors, role models, people who can show them that things are possible are important.

Senator Campbell: I have been perusing your newspapers here, and there seems to be a theme throughout of youth, music and arts. Perhaps you could comment on the role that plays not only within the community, but within the economy of the First Nations. I am amazed, for instance, at the number of First Nations people in the arts, especially in music.

Mr. Crowfoot: One of the things that you should know about our publications is that we are independent. I did an interview for CBC a couple weeks ago and they asked, "What happens if you write a story about your brother, who is a chief?" I said, "I just have to watch out for my mom."

I am proud to say that we are completely independent. Not even advertisers affect our coverage, although they have attempted to. I was talking with Robert Nault, who was the minister a couple of years ago, and he said, "You know, I have to tell you that I respect you; you have hammered me a few times, and I really respect you because you hammer everybody. If there is a story out there that needs to be told, you guys will do it, but by being objective and balanced."

Getting back to your question about the arts, I am proud that our people are very creative, whether through music or other arts; it is a way of expressing themselves. We like to profile those individuals. We will show mainstream Canada that we do not fit the usual stereotype that most people have of Aboriginal people. We are not all drunks. We are not all unemployed. We want to profile these successes for them and for our people to give them examples of, "Wow, I could do that."

Senator Campbell: Thank you very much and keep up the good work.

The Chairman: Thank you very much, Mr. Crowfoot. Our study is considering the involvement of Aboriginal people in the entire area of business, and of course we tend to look at First Nations bands and people on reserves. It is interesting to see someone like you, who has come from that background and is making it in the mainstream on your own determination, energy and skills. It is a reminder to us that there are people like you out there who have made a success of themselves in spite of the many obstacles. We also have a Canadian society that allows that kind of involvement in success. Thank you for your presentation. We certainly wish you well.

Mr. Crowfoot: Two of the achievements that we have had in the last couple of years are that our organization was selected by Alberta Venture magazine last year as one of the 50 most influential in the province, and this year we were one of the top 100 entrepreneurs that built Alberta. We are quite proud of that, and we hope to continue to do the job well into the future.

The Chairman: Senators, we now welcome Mr. Steinhauer and Mr. New.

Arthur New, Business Manager, Henry Bird Steinhauer Development Foundation Ltd.: Mr. Chairman, senators, Elders, ladies and gentlemen, my name is Arthur New and I am the business manager of the Henry Bird Steinhauer Development Foundation. I am a member of the Alberta Metis Nation. It is my pleasure today to introduce Melvin Steinhauer, who has written a book on his great-grandfather, Henry Bird Steinhauer.

The first part of this presentation will be a brief history of Henry Bird, and the second part will focus on the development of an action plan to implement Henry Bird's principles for obtaining self-sufficiency in First Nations communities today.

Mr. Steinhauer has been a tribal administrator for over 30 years, both at Whitefish Lake and Saddle Lake, Alberta. He organized the first Alberta All Chiefs' Conference in 1968 and was the president of the Indian Oil Sands Development Corporation, now known as the Alberta Indian Investment Corporation.

He has been a chief and a councillor and today resides at Whitefish Lake. I would like to turn the program over to Melvin.

Melvin Steinhauer, President, Henry Bird Steinhauer Development Foundation Ltd.: Good morning. First, I would like to thank the Senate Aboriginal Affairs Committee for taking the time to listen to me today. The major part of my story takes place on the Whitefish Lake Reserve. Please note when I say Whitefish Lake, I also mean Good Fish Lake. Both lakes make up our reserve. Now let us begin our story.

The picture you see of this 10-year-old boy is 175 years old, yet the spirit of this child lives today in our communities and in his descendants throughout Canada. In fact, his descendants now number over 12,000. His name is Henry Bird Steinhauer, also called Shawahnekizhek. I have written a story of his life so that all people, especially our young Aboriginal people, can read about him and know the impact that one individual had on generations to this day. We can be proud of him as a model of living that will influence generations to come.

Henry Bird, an Ojibwa, was born in 1818 near Lake Simcoe, Ontario, and educated in Canada and the United States. He lived in Northern Manitoba and was at Whitefish Lake for 27 years, from 1857 to 1884. He had a profound effect on Whitefish Lake. He believed in certain virtues and values, which I will talk about later in the presentation.

Henry Bird Steinhauer was not a chief or councillor, yet his descendants became chiefs and councillors, businessmen, and even Lieutenant-Governor, the late Ralph Steinhauer. He was not a war leader, yet his descendants fight in the courts and political arenas today for the same causes he led all his life until his death in 1884.

Henry Bird was an individual with high moral standards who came to live with us and to show us by example how to live and build our communities. Henry Bird was an Aboriginal who understood the Aboriginal culture of the community. Because of this understanding, the people trusted him and he was able to work with them in expanding their economic, social and cultural foundations.

What did he accomplish? He was a translator and adviser to Chief Pakan during the negotiations of Treaty 6 and the Riel Rebellion. He could speak six languages, Ojibwa, Cree, English, Latin, Greek and Hebrew.

Henry Bird also started schools and churches, and adult education classes for farming, homemaking and other life skills needed to survive. Henry Bird, along with his Native assistant, James Sinclair, provided the first translation of all 66 books of the Bible into Cree, a historic accomplishment.

Overall, he advanced the education and survival skills of the Whitefish Lake community. When the people learned new skills, they were able to prosper. Now, 125 years later, the skills, the virtues and the values of Henry Bird still influence many of the people at Whitefish Lake and Good Fish Lake.

At Good Fish Lake, we have two profitable businesses owned by the Whitefish Lake Band: the garment factory, where we make fire retardant clothing for the oil industry, and the commercial dry cleaning plant, where we clean and repair truckloads of oil workers' clothing. Both of these businesses have been operating and making money for over 30 years. I feel it is the influence of Henry Bird Steinhauer that gave us a foundation on which to build and operate these businesses.

By the way, yesterday I had the opportunity to attend the grand opening of the second dry cleaning plant, and there they recognized 10 people for their work. The fewest number of years given to the dry cleaning company was 17, and the highest was 27. I was so proud of that, because I thought, where else can we find somebody who has worked for 27 years in one area, especially in a First Nation?

Now, let us review Henry Bird's basic principles and values. Let us think about how we can put them into an action plan. You will notice that I use the words "community development" quite often. That is because I do not regard Henry Bird as only an economic developer or only a teacher or only a minister. Community development is a more encompassing phrase that includes starting from where people find themselves today and growing as a community from that base.

The first principle is education. In Henry Bird's world, education was of primary importance for children, as well as men and women of all ages. Today, education needs to prepare young people for jobs and businesses inside and outside the First Nations community.

Learning is an ongoing process. We need to continually learn, especially today, including from the Internet. We learn as much from our failures as our successes. We also need to continue to learn from all segments of the outside societies.

Practical skills: It was imperative in Henry Bird's world that people have a practical skill for survival. Hunting and fishing were changing, so they added farming, gardening, carpentry, and even looking after your home. Today, we call them life skills, trades, on-the-job training and education.

Self-sufficiency and transition: Henry Bird saw the transition that was taking place among the Plains Cree, from a hunting and fishing society to an agricultural and industrial society. He took people from where they were and built on their knowledge and skills so that they could acquire more knowledge and new skills in order to survive and live a good life. He respected traditional culture and built upon it.

Today, this means that the First Nation community needs to look at investments, start-up companies, and any business venture that is self-sustaining. Make-work projects can be used for training, but we need to look for long-term sustainable solutions.

Community members need to adopt the reality that due to location, there will never be enough jobs in the First Nations community for full employment. That is why most Aboriginal young people migrate to the cities.

I would like to say that we had the opportunity to hire 100 per cent of our people in 1971, and we found out that when you do that it is no good, because when you fire one, you have to rehire the same person. That is the way it works.

The community's human resource goal is to equip its members with education and skills necessary to compete in a global marketplace.

Inclusion: Henry Bird always included everyone because he believed that every person has something to offer. I do not believe that a community can move ahead unless it includes all of its members in all aspects of the community's life. This involves an understanding of the local culture, what works and what does not work in each community.

The virtue of work: Henry Bird connected the virtue of work with receiving an economic benefit, with the building of self-esteem and the feeling of belonging to the community. Today, social assistance should only be available if a member contributes something back to the community. I believe the day will come when social assistance will be drastically cut back, so we need to prepare our people for this transition.

Spiritual and moral virtues: Spirituality in its many forms is the foundation of the community. What I mean by that is spirituality in its broadest form is in all of us, is given to us by the Creator and can be used for the good of everyone.

Leaders, determination and management by example: When I talk of leadership, we can all be leaders, leaders in the schoolyard, leaders at work, leaders at home, and elected leaders, with whom we are most familiar. Henry Bird led by example. As a result, people became leaders themselves.

Leadership is also management. It is one thing to have ideas, but it is quite another to implement them efficiently and effectively. It is like two hockey teams. Both have knowledge of the game, but the one that executes the skills in the game most effectively ends up the winner. Strong leadership and strong management come through practice, hard work and determination.

Henry Bird developed a community development strategy unique for his time. In today's terms, I would call it the total community development strategy. "Total" because it must include all community members, no matter what age, what level of education, what job they presently hold or do not hold, and all those on social assistance. It must also include all programs and all departments of our local government. It must include all other groups of people, from private business to churches to whomever, and we must have a management team that will manage all of these people and groups through the process of development and ensure that Henry Bird's seven principles are the guiding framework. It is important that the management team have a clear understanding of the culture of the local community. All of the program managers, from culture to economic development to health, and everyone else in the community, need to work together to support each other as each activity develops.

You will notice that Henry Bird's seven principles are the foundation upon which the community is built. You will also notice that I placed education in the centre. I did this because education is not just going to school. It is a lifelong process of learning and is part of every job and program.

The big question is this: How does a community implement a total community development strategy in order to become self-sufficient economically, educationally, and free from the social problems of addictions and the lifestyle that comes with them? In other words, how does a First Nations community function at a level where its members and its government can compete and find harmony with other communities in Canada, Native or non-Native? To answer this question, each community will need to create an action plan to carry out our total community development strategy.

I have set aside four months to develop the action plan and a year to 18 months to introduce it and have it operating. I know that four months to develop an action plan is a short time, but I believe that most First Nations have the foundation through their program managers to make this happen as an extension of their planning process. Like Henry Bird, we are building our strength on what we know and taking the next step forward in the transition of our community. At this stage, one might ask, "Are we not already practicing the principles of Henry Bird? Why do we need an action plan?" My answer is, "If we do not, we will lose our way." People need to be given specific responsibilities to get things done. It is that simple. We need to manage this project the same way we manage every other program.

A summary of the benefits is as follows. Individuals will be empowered to make choices and influence their future. This, in turn, will begin to break the back of the welfare mentality that has been instilled in our communities and held us back for so long. The process would instill self-sufficiency, especially through education. In fact, I would predict that our schools could be in the top 25 per cent of schools in Canada, rather than 28 years behind non-Aboriginal schools. Please remember that the limited number of our people who have obtained a post-secondary education have a standard of living at par with the rest of Canada.

We would create self-sufficiency through long-term, sustainable jobs that allow people to plan their future. This, in turn, would raise the standard of living for all individuals. Self-sufficiency would encourage greater community involvement, which would lead to enhanced transparency in governance because people would now feel that they are a check and balance to elected officials.

The end result would be a community of individuals who have the necessary education and skills to obtain self-sufficiency in their personal lives and to become leaders in the greater community. In essence, the community itself would become a leading community in Canada.

In conclusion, I believe that Henry Bird Steinhauer left all First Nations a legacy of hope and a plan for self-sufficiency. It is now our hope that the Government of Canada would support this approach to empowering our communities.

Thank you very much for taking the time to listen to me today.

The Chairman: Mr. Steinhauer, your presentation and what you say are pretty sound and common sense. Is the message that you are espousing, that you are carrying, being received well? Is your message being accepted by First Nations throughout the area that you visit?

Mr. Steinhauer: I do not understand the question.

The Chairman: I am saying your message is very good. Are people in the communities, on the reserves, responding? How are they responding to you? Do they say you are right, do they say you are wrong, or what?

Mr. Steinhauer: Well, I have done 14 presentations so far. I am being asked by different communities, especially in Northeastern Alberta, to give the message that I have here. I would have to say that this was reality. It happened, and it can happen again. In fact, I say that it is still happening in Good Fish Lake, Whitefish Lake, because the employment rate there is about 60 per cent. That new dry cleaning plant that I was talking about earlier has the capacity to hire 75 people. The old one only employed 38 people. The garment factory also employs 40 people. There are 78 people working in those two plants. I would have to say the welfare rate is probably 35 to 40 per cent, and I honestly believe it is because of what Henry Bird left for us. I think we are practicing his virtues and values.

The Chairman: You talked about making presentations to a community and about how there is a four-month period for developing plans. Do you work with the community and help them with their plans? Is that part of the work that you do?

Mr. Steinhauer: I do not do that because I am just beginning to set out my message for the communities. I am trying to find out which community wants to practise the approach I am talking about. So far, as I said, people do ask me to make presentations, but they have to talk about how they will do it and things like that. I think that this can be done without having to have additional dollars. Nine times out of ten it is always more dollars, more dollars, and I am saying, "No, you do not have to do that." I am saying that you can reinvest the money that you have in the different programs that you operate and actually put this into practice, because all the different programs would work together. Can we show you one more example?

Mr. New: Mr. Chairman, just to give you a framework, the process that Melvin is talking about has taken place. It is reality. This is not a philosophy. From 1965 to about 1980, a number of events took place on Good Fish Lake that helped this to happen. They had established something similar to what Siksika described this morning, an arm separate from the politics to do some economic development. Now, this happened in 1965, and on Good Fish Lake it was called the pasture land development association.

In 1970-71, during the era of Jean Chrétien as Minister of Indian Affairs, there was a school strike in Northern Alberta and the Indian Affairs offices were occupied by people from that part of the province. At that time, Mr. Chrétien established a special task force and put the ADM of Indian Affairs in charge of it. It was his job was to look at alternatives to community development because what was happening with the department was not working. One of the reserves chosen was Good Fish Lake. I was involved in that as consultant in 1971. I believe what happened there would not have happened without the basis that Henry Bird had established in the community.

One thing Melvin did not mention was that when Henry Bird Steinhauer was in that community in the 1970s and 1980s, almost all the people could read and write in both English and Cree. He established that. That is a phenomenal achievement, if you think about it, because many people in any culture or group could not even sign their names in those days. That is the framework. What he talks about happened and set the stage for the development of those two corporations.

To help us understand the total community development strategy, let us take education, the education program itself, as an example. Let us say that a major problem is attendance. How then do other programs support every child going to school every day? A school breakfast program may need to be introduced to encourage students to go to school. Social services may have to focus on individual family problems to make sure that each child gets up in the morning and gets to school. The economic development department can begin motivational programs by showing students how they can become self-sufficient through business. The cultural department may need to implement a program whereby all students learn Aboriginal culture and become proud of their school. Transportation may need to be adjusted to accommodate student needs, perhaps through a backup system. Perhaps volunteers, and social assistance recipients as part of their contribution to the community, would be responsible for encouraging families to send their children to school. The chief and council might establish a series of prizes and awards for top achievements at all grade levels. An award ceremony would become the highlight of the year.

The school itself will need to establish an atmosphere where children want to go to school; there is nothing better than to go to school. The school itself can become the hub of activity for children through sports, arts, music, crafts, and special learning clubs, such as debating, public speaking, life skills and dealing with addictions. The school would have the opportunity to create a curriculum around lifelong sustaining values, values that would prepare the children to excel in the world community. The school, in conjunction with a recreation program, may consider a much stronger emphasis on sports and lifelong recreation. The school would also need to take a strong stand on academic discipline. For example, a certain grade average would need to be met for students to play on the school team or participate in a cultural activity. The school could take the position that it will become the best learning institution in Canada. To do so, it would realize that it is not only competing with Aboriginal schools, but with all schools in the country.

You can see that education needs the help of all other programs, in fact, the support of every member of the community, if it is to achieve its full potential.

The Chairman: I want to thank you, Mr. Steinhauer, for your presentation. You are very inspirational, and I can see how you will affect people, you will effect change, because what you say is true, it is common sense. I have no doubt that your philosophy, what you hope to do in inspiring people, will be effective.

Our next witnesses are representatives of the Nakoda-Wesley First Nation, Trent Fox, program manager, and Ron Stonier, economic development officer. Welcome to our committee.

Trent Fox, Program Manager, Nakoda-Wesley First Nation: Thank you, Mr. Chairman and respected senators. We are pleased that the Senate has recognized the importance of Aboriginal economic development and the issues currently facing First Nations in their pursuit of economic independence. We thank you for this opportunity to present to you some of the obstacles that the Wesley First Nation must overcome before we can enjoy sustainable economic development.

My name is Trenton Fox, and I represent the Wesley First Nation, which is principally located at Morley, Alberta, west of Calgary. We are one of the three First Nations that comprise the Stoney Nakoda First Nation, also known as the Stoney Tribe.

In 1877, the leaders of our nation agreed to both the written and oral terms of Treaty 7 with Her Majesty the Queen at Blackfoot Crossing on the Bow River. In exchange for our peace and friendship, Her Majesty recognized us as sovereign nations and agreed to secure not only our treaty rights, but also our Aboriginal rights that include the right to self-government and self-determination, the right to our traditional ways of life and our right to economic development.

On May 17, 1889, Her Majesty, pursuant to the Treaty 7, set aside reserves numbers. 142, 143 and 144 for the three nations that comprise the Stoney Nakoda Nation. However, Her Majesty failed to divide these three reserves and holds the undivided reserves jointly for the use and benefit of the Stoney Nakoda Nation, and not the three constituent nations, the Bearspaw, Chiniki and Wesley bands. By Order in Council P.C. 1973-3571 dated November 13, 1973, Her Majesty reinforced this initial error when she chose to recognize only the Stoney Band of Indians, and not the three First Nations comprising the Stoney Nakoda Nation. This ongoing arrangement is to the detriment of our economic development.

Imagine the challenges and hurdles that the independent legislatures of British Columbia, Alberta and Saskatchewan would face if these three governments were forced to operate within one undivided territory. This is the type of dysfunctional system that the Wesley First Nation must operate within on a day-to-day basis.

Furthermore, Her Majesty's "divide and conquer" approach to colonization has deeply rooted in our people the rise of individualism, including the concept of private property rights and ownership within First Nation communities. This causes hardships, as valuable land sits vacant due to land ownership disputes within the First Nation.

It is our position that the combination of these and other factors constitute a considerable barrier to successful and sustainable economic development for the Wesley First Nation. We are optimistic and confident that your understanding of these issues and your support will help Wesley First Nation meet our mutual objectives for the constituents that we represent.

The following is a summary of some of the issues that must be addressed before the Wesley First Nation can achieve economic self-sufficiency.

1. As stated, Wesley First Nation's principal barriers to self-sufficiency are the joint and undivided nature of Indian reserves no. 142, 143 and 144, and Her Majesty's failure to recognize the three First Nations in the 1973 Order in Council.

2. This compromises our ability to properly identify, designate and use certain parts of our on- and off-reserve lands, with the result that thousands of acres of productive lands lie idle and without any significant economic benefit.

3. Even when some form of economic development is attempted by one of the three First Nations of the Stoney Tribe, the other two nations have historically expected a share in any profits, while avoiding any liability for losses. The result is that none of the three nations has a desire to invest its own funds in any project.

4. Furthermore, the 1973 Order in Council has proven to be a barrier to good governance, and the implementation of a proposed constitution that is meant to divide powers and provide for effective dispute resolution mechanisms between the First Nations is hindered.

5. Her Majesty has compounded the error of the 1973 Order in Council by failing to provide for a separate contribution funding agreement for each of the three First Nations. The effect is that the Wesley First Nation is limited in its ability to access new funding opportunities, and its own good fiscal management is penalized when it is forced to subsidize any deficits incurred by the other two First Nations. This is a reality for the Wesley First Nation.

6. The concept of individual private property rights within the First Nation communities prevents First Nations from using commonly held reserve and off-reserve lands when individuals lay claim to common lands and prevent economic development by erecting physical barriers or demanding unwarranted personal compensation before allowing the common lands to be utilized.

7. Federal legislation such as the Indian Act and the Indian Oil and Gas Act, and provincial legislation such as the Business Corporations Act and Land Titles Act, among others, create legislative barriers to sustainable economic development and self-sufficiency.

8. Instead of assisting First Nations to achieve economic independence, federal and provincial legislation creates time-consuming, bureaucratic barriers for First Nations and any third party wanting to work with a First Nation.

9. Provincial legislation fails to recognize First Nations as a legal entity and prohibits direct ownership of lands and businesses. The result is that banks and mainstream businesses are reluctant to work directly with First Nations.

10. The Indian Act further interferes with our economic self-sufficiency by restricting Wesley First Nation's ability to access heritage fund and capital account money on a timely basis. Actual economic loss has been suffered as a result of Her Majesty's failure to properly account for and provide for a proper rate of return on our money in these accounts.

11. Similarly, the Indian Oil and Gas Act has cost the Stoney Nakoda Nation at least $100 million in damages as a result of Her Majesty's ongoing failure to properly collect and account for the royalties that were payable on gas produced from our lands.

12. Finally, sustainable economic development and self-sufficiency require extensive capacity building for all First Nations. This entails increased funding of education and wellness programs. As well, there should be increased funding of cultural awareness programs so that mainstream businesses will be encouraged to engage in joint ventures with First Nations and First Nation-owned businesses.

On behalf of Chief Ernest Wesley and the Wesley First Nation, we thank you for your attention and appreciate the opportunity to discuss with you Wesley First Nation's concerns regarding Aboriginal economic development.

If I may, I would like to conclude by suggesting that the federal government partner with individual nations and create policy specific to their unique needs. Canada is a large country. Blanket policies do not always answer unique regional requirements. Thank you.

Senator Zimmer: Thank you for your presentation. It has some interesting parts to it. Point 10, "The Indian Act further interferes with our economic self-sufficiency by restricting ..." can you expand on that a little and tell us exactly which areas of the Indian Act are causing those problems?

Ron Stonier, Economic Development Officer, Nakoda-Wesley First Nation: I do not know the specific areas of the Indian Act that are causing the problems. The issue has a lot to do with us being treated as one nation. Within the three nations, there are a lot of agendas. One group can put forward an agenda and the other group will say it does not work for them, and that is why we are where we are at.

The other issue is the timeliness with which the Department of Indian Affairs is able to release funds to us. Currently, we are working on a rather large entertainment complex at the corner of the TransCanada Highway and Highway 40 that we would like to self-fund. However, we have had to arrange a substantial line of credit, even though we have the funds, to start the project because we are not sure when INAC will release those funds to us.

Senator Zimmer: When or if they do, does that also affect the other two organizations? Would they be involved in the same process with you? Within the three groups, you have a political situation that you have to deal with also?

Mr. Stonier: There most definitely is a political situation within the three groups. Originally, when the Stoney Nation was to be established, it was supposed to be done, our oral history indicates, as three separate nations. The oral history indicates that the Indian agent at the time was lazy and did not want to go out and survey the three separate lands back in the late 1800s, so he picked a plot of land, put them all together, and said "This becomes the Stoney Nation."

If we were able to separate and be recognized as the three bands, Wesley, Chiniki and Bearspaw, we would be able to access our funds directly instead of having to go through a tribal administration. We would also be able to access other policies and procedures through Indian Affairs. We would like to create our own constitution and bylaws as the Wesley First Nation. We cannot do that because the bylaws might not fit the needs of the other two bands.

Senator Zimmer: Is there agreement on that by all three bands, or if the federal government or INAC tried to solve this issue, is there one group that may not agree?

Mr. Stonier: I believe it depends on the day.

Senator Zimmer: Thank you for your presentation and your answers, which were very clear.

Senator Peterson: Do the three bands have defined boundaries within this area?

Mr. Stonier: We do not have fixed, defined boundaries, but we have established, essentially, territories. For instance, the Wesley Band claims — and it is accepted — the north side of the Bow River of the Stoney reserve land as their area. The Chiniki Band essentially focuses on the west end of the reserve area, and the Bearspaw Band is on the eastern end of our designated area. Plus, we have separate land areas, one called Eden Valley, which is mostly made up of Bearspaw and recognized as Bearspaw land, and we have an area west of Rocky Mountain House called Big Horn, which is identified as Wesley land.

Senator Peterson: So this would have to be partitioned in some way.

Mr. Stonier: There would have to be a partition

Senator Peterson: Do the Stoney Band presume that they control the entire area?

Mr. Stonier: It is the Stoney Tribal Administration, which is made up of the three bands

Senator Peterson: They administer the entire area, so there would have to be agreement amongst the entire group then.

Mr. Stonier: The entire territory that consists of the Stoney reserve is occupied by three bands, the Wesley Band, the Chiniki Band and the Bearspaw Band. We do not have a central elected council. Each band has its own council. The entire area is administered by something called the Stoney Tribal Administration, and they will have meetings of the three councils, but many times, to suit political agendas, one council will not show up. You then do not have quorum and nothing happens.

Mr. Fox: If I could add to that. Chief Ernest Wesley of the Wesley First Nation is attempting to correct what he calls an historic wrong. We are the Wesley First Nation. The Stoney Tribe was a creation of the federal government. Prior to the signing of our treaties, we did not consider ourselves the Stoney Tribe, rather the Nakoda Nations. Chief Wesley and the Wesley First Nation have been prepared to move forward on different agendas, including developing housing policies and bylaw development initiatives, but we are hindered because we have to report to a tribal council that, due to political reasons, has not been able to come to agreements for the previous three years. Therefore, our initiative is to establish independence in the long term, and in that sense, correct an historic wrong.

The Chairman: I would be interested to know how many of you there are in the band and whether you have been successful in some economic projects.

Mr. Fox: I can say that population-wise the Stoney Tribe in total is at least 3,700, but each band keeps its own band rolls, so approximately 1,200 to 1,300 per band.

Mr. Stonier: As for economic development, we have some very successful oil and gas operations. We have had some successes with smaller businesses. Right now the Wesley Band is working with the movie industry as a production site, and we are working on expanding that. We have a rodeo centre that we are working on utilizing as a studio. We have an 80-room convention and conference centre on a beautiful lake called Hector Lake. The property is called Nakoda Lodge, which is being well managed now. It is moving ahead. The entertainment complex that we are building is actually a creation of the three bands working together. When it goes ahead, it will be very successful. The location is great and we look forward to that.

Mr. Chairman, if I could just go back to Senator Peterson's question about borders. At this point, I do not think the establishment of borders to separate the three bands is imperative. What would be very important to Chief Wesley and to us for the success of our initiative is for the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs to recognize the three bands as separate entities, not as the Stoney Nation. That would allow us to move forward with developments.

Senator Peterson: If that was done, the boundaries would not be an issue?

Mr. Stonier: I do not believe it would be a huge issue at this point. The important thing is to create the opportunities for the bands to get away from the political agendas and move forward with their own initiatives.

On the north side of the river, Chief Wesley is very aggressive about decentralizing programs, and we are working towards that, but as we try to establish programs, we hit roadblocks. For instance, we are trying to establish a housing policy that would make tenants of our houses much more responsible, and we were talking to INAC about that and funding issues. We will not receive any funding based on our policy because it is not the Stoney policy. The funding issues are all settled through the Stoney administration policies, which were created with the acceptance of the three bands, but as we move forward, we realize that the all-encompassing policy does not meet our needs.

Senator Peterson: So why did this happen in 1973? Who was pushing back? Who was the obstacle?

Mr. Stonier: I do not believe there was anybody pushing back. I believe that was how we existed at that time. In 1973, we existed as the Stoney Nation, and that is the historic wrong. The wrong occurred when the Treaty 7 was originally created. The three bands were never one nation. They were always three separate entities. The oral history says the Indian agent combined all three into one nation, and the Order in Council specifically identifies individual Aboriginal nations. They had been asked, I understand, to separate the three nations, but they were afraid of the amount of time it would take and potential issues it would create, and, with the stroke of a pen, continued the historic wrong.

Senator Peterson: So either INAC or the Government of Canada has to correct it?

Mr. Stonier: I understand it would be very simple for the minister to put an Order in Council before cabinet and just separate them. We want to be Nakoda Bearspaw, Nakoda Chiniki and Nakoda Wesley. It would be that simple.

Mr. Fox: I can provide an example, Mr. Chairman. I am not proposing to speak on behalf of the Bearspaw First Nation of the Stoney Tribe, but one example of a hindrance was Bearspaw First Nation entered into a community tripartite agreement with the Alberta government and the federal government to establish RCMP policing services on the Eden Valley land located south of Calgary. Unfortunately, that is not possible because the BCR, the band council resolution, presented by Bearspaw Band is not recognized by either the federal or provincial governments. They are trying to introduce traffic control bylaws and noise bylaws, et cetera, that are beneficial to the well-being of the nation, but they are not able to ratify those bylaws because they require a Stoney Tribal Council resolution, and it has been difficult to get the three bands to agree. It is three governments operating under one umbrella. It is creating a lot of difficulties in terms of moving forward economically as well as socially.

Senator Lovelace Nicholas: Is it because you are not recognized as three separate bands that you do not have access to these lands that lie idle?

Mr. Stonier: It is a big part of the reason. As we mentioned in our presentation, the bands are all afraid to start their own initiatives because if one is successful, the other two bands say "We are part of the Stoney Tribe, give us our percentage of the profits." If it fails, they do not want to pick up any of the liabilities, so there is a bit of a standoff there.

We have some off-nation land that we have purchased through the years, and I wanted to speak specifically about Two Rivers Ranch. It is located on the Ghost Lake Reservoir just outside of Cochrane. It is approximately 2,800 acres. It is a beautiful ranch, had a wonderful ranch house. It sits idle right now because there is a political agenda between one of the bands and the Wesley First Nation. The Wesley First Nation sees a value in that land and would like to take it forward. It could be campgrounds. It could be the site of an excellent convention centre. The house already exists. Lakeside lease lands for cottages could be created. It is well located for teepee village camps. We cannot do that. We are, in essence, being held hostage by one of the other bands as a negotiating tactic.

Senator Lovelace Nicholas: This is a unique situation, and I thank you.

The Chairman: With that, I want to thank you for your presentation, for coming forward to tell us of your experience and the challenges you face with regard to economic development in particular. What you say will certainly be noted, and we wish you well in your future endeavours.

Mr. Fox: Thank you.

Mr. Stonier: Thank you, senators.

The Chairman: We are at the end of our hearings in Western Canada. We have heard numerous witnesses. We have been to quite a few regions in B. C. and Alberta, so this ends this portion of our work. Thank you very much to all of the senators who have attended. I do know that it will be very helpful to our eventual report. The senate committee is dealing with the subject of Aboriginal people and economic development, so it is a big undertaking. Particularly, we want to find out what are the factors that lead to success for Aboriginal people and what are the factors that stand in the way and impede progress in this area. It is a very important subject.

We will be going to other regions of Canada in the next few months. We will hopefully finish our report sometime next fall. In approximately a year's time, the senate committee should have a report, and hopefully it will be enlightening and a help to the federal government, other governments, and First Nations in our country.

I want to thank everybody who has been involved in the committee; our staff, who have made all of the arrangements in a logical and timely manner, and all the witnesses who have appeared before us. I want to thank also the Tsuu T'ina people, the band and the administration, for making our visit here to Calgary very positive. The meeting room is an excellent place for people to come and listen. We thank them for their hospitality. Did you want to say a word, Senator Zimmer?

Senator Zimmer: Yes, I just wanted to echo those sentiments. This was my first hearing. On behalf of all the senators and the presenters, I wanted to congratulate you for your leadership, Chair, and also your staff, who have been outstanding. Again, we want to thank you for the guidance and leadership that you have shown.

The Chairman: With that, the Standing Senate Committee on Aboriginal Peoples stands adjourned.

The committee adjourned.


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