Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
National Security and Defence
Issue 21 - Evidence, May 5, 2005 - Morning session
HALIFAX, Thursday, May 5, 2005
The Standing Senate Committee on National Security and Defence met this day at 10:50 a.m. to examine and report on the national security policy for Canada.
Senator Colin Kenny (Chairman) in the chair.
[English]
The Chairman: It is our pleasure to be in Halifax today. In fact, two members of the committee have come home. The deputy chair, Senator Forrestall, is from Dartmouth, as is Senator Cordy. Senator Pierre Claude Nolin also feels at home here. We are looking forward to learning a great deal to assist us in working on a paper addressing the defence review.
We have before us this morning Colonel Alan Blair, Wing Commander, 12 Wing Shearwater. Colonel Blair joined the Canadian Forces as a pilot in 1978. His flying training was completed on helicopters in Portage La Prairie, Manitoba, and he began his military career in Shearwater flying CH-124 Sea Kings from a number of Her Majesty's Canadian Ships. Colonel Blair has served in a number of different commands including Advanced Training Flight Commander, Shearwater, and Commander 423 Maritime Helicopter Squadron. He served on an exchange tour with the United States Navy's HelicopterAnti-Submarine Squadron (Light) 41 in San Diego, California, from 1988 to 1990 and also as a member of the Directing Staff at the British Armed Forces' Joint Services Command and Staff College in Shrivenham, Oxfordshire, in the U.K. in 2001. Colonel Blair assumed command of 12 Wing in July of 2004.
We also have with us Colonel Perry Matte, Wing Commander, 14 Wing Greenwood. Colonel Matte completed his basic air navigator course in 1981 and began his military career at CFB Greenwood with 405 Squadron. He served for three years as the senior avionics engineer at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Dayton, Ohio, from 1990 to 1993. He was promoted to Lieutenant Colonel in July 1995 and was posted to Maritime Group Headquarters in Halifax as Director of Air Operations Atlantic, then as Chief of Staff and Director of Operations for the Maritime Air Component (Atlantic). He was promoted to colonel in July of 2002 and was posted to Winnipeg as A3 Force Employment, then A3 Force Generation. He assumed command of 14 Wing Greenwood in July of 2004. He is a graduate of the Canadian Forces Command and Staff College in Toronto.
Gentlemen, welcome to the committee.
Colonel Alan Blair, 12 Wing Commanding Officer, National Defence: Mr. Chairman, distinguished senators, I am honoured to be here before you this morning to update you on 12 Wing and Canada's maritime helicopter, the CH-124 Sea King. It is important to provide you with some context; therefore, I propose to start with a brief history of Shearwater up to the present day. I will follow that with an overview of my organization andits capabilities, including my Air Reserve Flight, and finishup by discussing the CH-124 Sea King and its replacement, the CH-148 Cyclone.
Shearwater is Canada's oldest continuously operating air force base of operations. First established at the invitation of the Canadian government as a United States naval base in August 1918, Shearwater began as a seaplane base under the leadership of one of the greatest explorers and aviators, Lieutenant (USN), later to be Rear Admiral, Richard E. Byrd. Byrd and his men flew anti-submarine and convoy escort patrols over the Atlantic during the final few months of the First World War. Following the war, the base reverted to Canadian control going on to become the centre, and the birthplace, of Canadian naval aviation.
For the next 30 years, RCAF Station Dartmouth, as it became known, remained a seaplane base. Airfield construction started at the beginning of World War II in 1939, and Dartmouth saw a great deal of activity throughout the war as an eastern air command base flying convoy escort and anti-submarine patrols in the western Atlantic. From its beginning in 1946, the fledgling Canadian Fleet Air Arm was based in Dartmouth. In 1948 RCAF Dartmouth became Royal Canadian Naval Air Station Shearwater, which it remained through the glory days of RCN Aviation until it was renamed CFB Shearwater with unification in 1968. Through the 1970s and 1980s and into the 1990s, Trackers, T-Birds, Twin Huey helicopters and, of course, Sea Kings, were all based in Shearwater, and when I first arrived there in 1980 there were approximately 2,400 military personnel stationed there.
In the 1994 federal budget, Shearwater lost its base status,and in 1995 the last of its fixed wing aircraft moved toCFB Greenwood. Shearwater was now a military heliport and 12 Wing became a lodger unit of CFB Halifax. That arrangement continues to this day with all of my administrative support, including supply, food services, transport and construction engineering, provided by Formation Halifax. Command is still exercised through the air force, and my operational commander is the commander of 1 Canadian Air Division in Winnipeg. Today, Shearwater and 12 Wing continue in the maritime aviation tradition, flying the venerable Sea King helicopter from Canadian navy ships in support of both domestic and international operations.
There are five 12 Wing units. 423 (Maritime Helicopter) Squadron is the East Coast operational Sea King squadron; aircrews, maintainers and helicopters currently form four detachments ready to deploy to sea in support of the Canadian navy. 443 (Maritime Helicopter) Squadron is the West Coast operational Sea King squadron; based in Victoria, British Columbia, it currently provides three detachments in support of the West Coast fleet. 406 (Maritime) Operational Training Squadron trains aircrews and technicians for the challenging task of operating and maintaining the Sea King helicopter. HOTEF, or Helicopter Operational Test and EvaluationFacility, is responsible for researching, testing and evaluating state-of-the-art equipment for the Sea King. 12 Air Maintenance Squadron maintains the Sea King, including comprehensive periodic inspections in which the aircraft is almost entirely disassembled.
In Shearwater, I have a total of 900 regular and reserve force military personnel and 36 civilian personnel. In addition, Formation Halifax has approximately 200 military andcivilian staff in Shearwater in a direct support role. In Victoria, 443 Squadron comprises 250 regular and reserve force personnel.
12 Wing's Air Reserve members play an integral role in the operational capability of the Sea King fleet. With one Air Reserve Flight on each coast, they augment my establishment and enhance the operational, technical and administrative capabilities of all my units. All air reservists are trained to regular force standards and approximately half of them have prior regular force service.
The attrition rate for both flights is low, providing a valuable source of corporate knowledge on the wing due to their relatively static nature in comparison to their regular force counterparts. Reserve funding permits members to serve an average of 12 days per month throughout the year. This part-time capability is essential to 12 Wing; however, there are occasions when a surge to full-time employment is required to meet the demands of a high operational tempo. When regular force manning is not available, some reservists may be hired full-time using operations and maintenance funding to cover the difference. This method is used only to support critical needs, and we currently have only five reservists employed full-time here on the wing. One unique requirement which cannot be met by the regular force is for safety divers to support our annual Sea King water landing training. Operations and maintenance funds are currently used to hire navy reserve divers for the summer to fulfil this critical need.
Turning to the Sea King helicopter, 12 Wing is home to 28 Sea Kings, with six based on the West Coast with 443 Squadron, six in scheduled maintenance, and the remaining 16 shared amongst the three flying units in Shearwater. It is no secret that the Sea King is an old aircraft; however, it remains a safe and viable aircraft and it still forms a critical part of a ship's anti-surface and sub-surface capabilities. Throughout the last 15 years, Sea Kings have flown missions in areas such as the Persian Gulf, Somalia, Haiti, the Adriatic Sea and the Arabian Sea, as well as providing support to domestic emergency operations such as Manitoba's Red River flood in the spring of 1997 and the crash of Swissair Flight 111 in 1998. They also provide an ongoing contribution to NATO's Standing Naval Force Atlantic and continue to participate actively in multinational exercises. I have two detachments deployed at the moment, one in HMCS Winnipeg on its way to the Persian Gulf and one in HMCS Montreal working with our NATO allies in European waters. In addition, Sea Kings also conduct coastal and fisheries patrols, humanitarian assistance, environmental surveillance, drug interdiction, and search and rescue either embarked or from the shore.
The Sea King is, and always has been, a maintenance challenge. It is an extremely complex aircraft designed in the 1950s before anyone gave much thought to ease of maintenance. Over the years we have averaged 25 to 30 maintenance hours per flying hour and this remains the case today. Availability has averaged about 40 per cent over the years, although we seem to be trending lower than that over the past few years, possibly due to a shortage of qualified technicians. Some parts are becoming difficult to find and it is not uncommon to wait months for a part to arrive. Lack of funding has certainly played a role, as many of the parts that we used to stock now have to be order on an as-required basis. One point I do wish to leave you with, though, senators, is the fact that every Sea King we put in the air is safe and serviceable. This fact has not changed one iota over the years despite the rhetoric of some media outlets, and our maintenance teams work long hours to help ensure that it will remain this way, right up until the very last Sea King flight.
On the personnel front, 12 Wing is short of pilots; however, this situation is no different than many other air force units and we are managing it. The biggest personnel challenge that I face concerns technicians and specifically the overall lack of experience within this critical group. As we downsized in the 1990s, many qualified maintenance personnel left the air force and little or no recruiting was done for the next 10 years or so. Although recruitment has now increased, many of my experienced technicians are reaching the end of their careers and are retiring. So, although my overall number of maintenance personnel is correct, I have far too many apprentices and a diminishing number of qualified, experienced technicians. While we have taken a number of steps to mitigate this situation, in the end there is really no substitute for experience, especially on the Sea King, and that can only come with time. We are working hard to reduce the magnitude of this problem in time for the arrival of the first CH-148 Cyclone in 2008.
That brings me to my final point, which is the maritime helicopter project and the CH-148 Cyclone. As someone who has been directly involved in this flying community for 25 years now, I can attest to the fact that we are all very much looking forward to the arrival of the CH-148 in Shearwater. Just two weeks ago we had the official sod-turning ceremony for the Maritime Helicopter Training Centre, and preliminary construction work has begun. We now have the first tangible evidence of change after many years of waiting, and even the hardened cynics are excited. I and my staff believe that the CH-148 will be a fine aircraft and a fitting successor to the CH-124 Sea King, and we eagerly anticipate welcoming it into 12 Wing to herald the beginning of a new era in Canadian maritime aviation and a quantum leap in capability for Canada's ship/helicopter team.
The Chairman: Thank you, Colonel Blair.
Colonel Matte, you have the floor.
Colonel Perry Matte, 14 Wing Commanding Officer, National Defence: Mr. Chairman, honourable senators, it is a privilege to be able to be here today as Commander of 14 Wing Greenwood and to provide you with an overview of 14 Wing, its operations, and some of our challenges.
14 Wing Greenwood is a composite wing located at Canadian Forces Base Greenwood in the Annapolis Valley. It is the largest maritime air base in Canada and the largest military aerodrome east of Trenton in respect to personnel. At 14 Wing our motto is, ``Operate as One,'' and I am very fortunate to have a team of highly motivated, dedicated military and civilian personnel.
14 Wing is the valley's largest single-site employer. 14 Wing employs about 1,791 regular force military; about 460 civilian employees, part-time and casuals; and about 187 reservists. With a wing operating budget of about $46 million a year, coupled with the disposable income of those personnel employed at the wing, 14 Wing has a significant financial impact on many of the surrounding communities in the valley.
14 Wing Logistics consists of about 600 military and civilian employees and is responsible for a wide variety of services such as construction engineering, electrical and mechanical engineering, supply, transportation and telecommunications. As well as domestic support and support to the local community, the Wing Logistics Branch sustains a number of deployed operations each year, ranging from support to Canadian Forces Station Alert, to peacekeeping operations in Bosnia, Golan Heights, Sinai and southwest Asia.
14 Wing Administration is responsible for all personnel, administrative, and service requirements ranging from accommodations to health and social services, accounting functions and administration of some 28 clubs and wing recreational facilities. Due to the rural location of the wing and the superb recreational facilities available to our personnel, we provide opportunities and memberships to the surrounding communities who also make use of our various clubs and facilities.
14 Wing is also responsible for supporting a number of external organizations such as Land Forces Atlantic Area Training Centre Detachment in Aldershot, the Granville Ferry Training Centre, two militia armouries, 16 cadet units, and three cadet camps, and security and maintenance to Barrington and Sydney radar sites.
14 Wing is the primary Main Operating Base for long-range patrol (LRP) aircraft, supporting both national and international airborne intelligence, surveillance, reconnaissance and control missions. These patrols are principally over water, searching for both surface and sub-surface contacts while periodically conducting overland patrols in the Canadian Arctic region. International taskings will be conducted primarily in support of Canada-U.S., NATO or UN operations. 14 Wing conducts dedicated search and rescue operations in the area of operations and Halifax search and rescue region. 14 Wing is also a primary deployment base for NORAD fighters and support forces as demonstrated during 9/11. 14 Wing's strategic location provides rapid response to incidences arising on major sea and air lanes in and out of North America via Atlantic and Arctic approaches.
At 14 Wing, I have 413 Search and Rescue Transport Squadron flying both the CC-130 Hercules and theCH-149 Cormorant helicopter. 413 Squadron maintains a30-minute standby posture during normal working hours and a two- hour response posture during quiet hours. In concert with 103 Squadron, 19 Wing Gander, 413 Squadron operates primarily in the Atlantic region, an area encompassing over 1.8 million square miles.
14 Wing is established with two operational long-range patrol squadrons, or LRPs — 405 Squadron and 415 Squadron. These two squadrons, each containing five line and 1.5 executive crews, will be consolidated this summer into one large, more robust operational squadron as part of our air force's transformation initiatives. These operational squadrons are primarily responsible for developing operationally ready crews able to respond to any of our mandated missions.
Sovereignty missions conducted by the CP-140 crews include coastal surface surveillance, such as northern and fishery patrols, under-sea surveillance, and environmental missions from iceberg detection to anti-pollution monitoring. CP-140 crews also provide direct surveillance support to other government departments in conducting operations such as counter narcotics or illegal immigration. As crews train and develop their combat qualifications and readiness levels, they are able to conduct these sovereignty missions as well as deploy to conduct real-world operations. This demonstrates 14 Wing's capacity to operate across the full spectrum of conflict from peace to periods of high tension.
404 Squadron is responsible for providing ab initio and continuation training to all LRP aircrew and technical training for all LRP air maintainers. The squadron is actively preparing for the requirements to train students on new systems capabilities with the phased introduction of the Aurora Incremental Modernization Program (AIMP) as well as a new flight simulator and other trainers and simulators.
14 Air Maintenance Squadron employs over 560 personnel and provides centralized first and second line air maintenance support for all LRP assets assigned to 14 Wing. This squadron is also responsible for the provision of armament, avionics, photographic services as well as support through a variety of labs and shops.
14 Software Engineering Squadron is the CP-140 weapons system software development unit responsible for providing software support, maintenance and design for computer programs found on the aircraft as well as in numerous mission trainers and simulators.
The Maritime Proving and Evaluation Unit conductscritical tests and evaluation and tactical development for the CP-140 fleet, especially in support of AIMP. Over the last few years, the Maritime Proving and Evaluation Unit has, through practical involvement, become recognized as a centre of CF operational and OT&E expertise for unmanned aerial vehicles.
14 Wing Operations is primarily responsible for providing the command and control to coordinate and conduct flying operations. In addition, they provide airfield and police services, conduct wing readiness training flights and provide air traffic control services. 14 Wing maintains a CP-140 Aurora aircraft and crew on eight-hour standby and sometimes holds airborne standby for search and rescue as well as reactive missions.
Many of the challenges I face are likely very similar to those of other wings and units in the air force. First and foremost ofthese is personnel manning and experience shortfalls still being felt as a result of personnel reductions implemented in the1990s. Unfortunately, while we have experienced a reduction in air force personnel, we have also seen a sharp increase in operational tempo and deployments, most evident following the events of 9/11. While crews and personnel are deployed, there is an inherent requirement to continuously train and prepare personnel for their replacement to sustain the operational commitment while concurrently providing support to domestic operations and other support requirements.
Another significant challenge is infrastructure. 14 Wing consists of 166 buildings with an approximate realty replacement value of $540 million. However, most of these buildings and hangars are 40 years old and we can only afford, at this stage, to conduct breakdown maintenance. 14 Wing has a demand of over $50 million for capital infrastructure requirements over the next five years.
The biggest challenge is in supporting flight operations. The CP-140 is currently going through a modernization program called the Aurora Incremental Modernization Programme (AIMP). The aim of the project is to restore the operational capabilities of the CP-140 Aurora aircraft through incremental replacement of existing avionics systems with modern avionics systems. The project is amalgamated into 23 individual projects organized into four capability groups. AIMP is scheduled to be completed in 2011. During this program there will be up to four or five CP-140s inducted at any one time.
Further to this there are normally two CP-140s in for third line inspection and repair at IMP in Halifax and, as can be expected with any aircraft after 24 years of service, there are more items to be addressed and the planned maintenance takes longer to complete. Also, there is another aircraft in second-line maintenance activities at 14 AMS. As a result, the number of LRP aircraft actually available to support operations has been reduced, constraining the number of flying hours that can be generated.
The situation of aircraft availability is further compounded by two other factors. First, there has been a shortfall in national procurement funding used to purchase necessary parts and supplies to support a level of flying rates by fleet. The shortfall in funding has resulted in a lack of parts and equipment being readily available to address maintenance requirements. That, coupled with a significantly stressed maintenance trade with only 40 per cent to 60 per cent trained effective strength, has seen aircraft serviceability decline over the years to about 45 per cent today. As well, the vast majority of the maintainers at trained effective strength have 15 years of service or more and are looking to retirement in the near future.
As a result of aircraft availability and serviceability rates, the capacity to generate flying hours today is less than half of what it was in the early 1990s. While our aircrew remain safe and proficient to fly their assigned missions, there has been an appreciable reduction in the number of hours flown and subsequently the exposure and experience gained by our crews. This has resulted in its taking longer to develop the necessary combat skills and qualifications for our crews to be ready to deploy in support of international operations. Fortunately, despite all of these challenges to flying operations, we have been proactive in most cases in addressing the constraints and continue to meet our mandated requirements and commitments.
In closing, I would like to state that we are well postured and enthusiastic about the future as we complete AIMP and further develop our identification surveillance reconnaissance capabilities. The success we enjoy today and in the foreseeable future is again a credit to the dedication, professionalism andcan-do attitude of each and every member of the 14 Wing team.
Senator Forrestall: Thank you and welcome, gentlemen.
I could not help but remember sitting on the north side of the Annapolis River wondering what the heck those big machines were doing churning up the earth across the river. We now know, do we not?
This committee is concerned about your daily operational schedule, your patrols, and how you divide up your day's work. Perhaps you could take us briefly through a day.
Col. Matte: I assume you are asking specifically about my days?
Senator Forrestall: No, no, your charglings.
Col. Matte: The day at 14 Wing Greenwood is focused on supporting flying operations. 14 Wing Greenwood is really almost two areas in one. I have an administrative side and a support side of the base.
Senator Forrestall: I was talking about your operational side, our relationship with our allies, what are we doing now with the United States that we were not doing before 9/11.
Col. Matte: Not too much has changed in terms of daily operations. I do have crews who still deploy on a routine basis. They are deploying primarily to guarantee that we still have inter-operability with our allies. They are also deploying to support and participate in exercises and operations, principally to work on the force generation of their required combat skills. We work daily with our own navy and periodically with the United States Navy as well, again to ensure that we have that inter-operability and the capability to work with all of our allies.
Senator Forrestall: Do we have full capacity of command and control?
Col. Matte: Yes, senator, we have a very well-established command and control capability with our allies and with AIMP. We are actually enhancing the capabilities that we bring with the platform to support allied operations.
Senator Forrestall: Can we talk about the life extension program? I have actively expressed my concern that the programs started, all slowed down, stopped, and now seem to have started up again. Why the delay? Why such a long period of time between the commencement and the resumption of the programs? You have mentioned how old these aircraft are. I assume that the age you gave was the age of the first plane delivered here.
Col. Matte: The first aircraft was delivered in 1980. I recall that very well because I had just graduated from Acadia University and was embarking upon my military career at the time. With regards to the project itself, senator, much of the funding had to come from within. We were identifying it both as capital and as national procurement funding. In order to fund the $1.4-billion program, it was decided long ago to use a phased approach, which would have the minimal impact with respect to taking aircraft out of service for an extended period of time. It was always recognized that at some point systems would have to be upgraded, not only to stay current with technology and the threat, but also to address the fact that much of the equipment used 1970s' technology for which, much like the Sea King, replacement components are not made today. In some cases those components are unique to this platform, and it is not economically feasible for someone to still maintain or develop parts for a relatively small market.
Senator Forrestall: Have you identified a replacement?
Col. Matte: For the aircraft? No, senator, we have not. The project for the avionics and sensors will be completed in 2011. We are looking at a program for the life extension of the aircraft to take us to 2025. There is nothing on the record right now to look at its replacement.
Senator Forrestall: Those planes will be 40 to 50 years old.
Col. Matte: At that stage, yes, sir, they will.
Senator Forrestall: By the time they are replaced, they will probably be in the mid-50s in age. Is that okay?
Col. Matte: That sounds about right, but as the Wing Commander I am not involved in planning for the aircraft's replacement, just in managing the operations and flying it.
Senator Forrestall: No, but you also fly airplanes.
I would like to turn to Shearwater for a moment. We were all very pleased to see the announcement of some money to start the establishment. However, are you absolutely confident that you are going to be doing the training for the Cyclone at Shearwater?
Col. Blair: Yes, senator, we are completely confident at this point. We are now committed to the $45-million Maritime Helicopter Training Centre, which is a one-stop training building for every facet of the CH-148 Cyclone. I am 100 per cent confident.
Senator Forrestall: Do you have in mind a date when you can start training pilots on the new equipment?
Col. Blair: We are working towards the contract dates and making our plans based on those. With the contract having been signed this past November, the first aircraft is scheduled to arrive in November of 2008, and six months prior to that, the Maritime Helicopter Training Centre has to be up and running. At some point prior to that, there will have to be some initial contractor training of aircrew. I do not have exact dates yet but we are working on it.
Senator Forrestall: So you believe that come mid-November, Canadian pilots will actually have started their flying?
Col. Blair: Yes, senator, I have to go by what the contract says and make my plans based on that.
Senator Forrestall: What about the land below the road, the harbour and the wharf?
Col. Blair: As you have heard, I am actually a lodger on Halifax's land.
Senator Forrestall: Yes, I know. I am sure you have got a warm feeling for that part of the world.
Col. Blair: By the land below the road, I take it you mean the jetty and the fleet diving unit.
Senator Forrestall: Yes.
Col. Blair: There are no plans that I am aware of for that area.
Senator Forrestall: What has happened with the proposal to turn the main runway into a four-lane highway?
Col. Blair: There have been various proposals, to which I am not privy. When Shearwater was turned into a heliport in the mid 1990s, we were asked what our requirement was, and that excess land was turned over for disposal. I have no insight into what is happening in that regard.
Senator Forrestall: It will be six years before you are operational in the new helicopters, is that right?
Col. Blair: We take delivery of the first one in 2008. There will be quite a lengthy period of operational tests and evaluation. Probably the final phase-out of the Sea King will be 2012. That will be the transition phase; in that four- year period we will gradually phase out the Sea King and phase in the Cyclone.
Senator Forrestall: Is there any reason that you would not immediately ground the Sea King fleet?
Col. Blair: We would not be able to do that, senator, because then we would have no operational capability. The Sea King will still be our operational capability for some period during that phase-in stage.
Senator Forrestall: It is hard to believe. The training will take place. Where will they build the Cyclones? Where will the planes be based for deployment to ships and to other places? Will it be here or Greenwood?
Col. Blair: They will be here. We will be basing the East Coast. The main centre of gravity for the fleet will remain Shearwater, and we will have a number of aircraft in Victoria as we currently do with the Sea King.
Senator Cordy: Halifax has such a history of the military. I would like to echo comments that you both made regarding the men and women in the military all over Canada: they are incredible people doing an amazing job. You both noted challenges that the military has faced and the men and women have gone above and beyond, in my opinion and in the opinion of the committee.
I am very interested in the Maritime Helicopter Training Centre. Are there other preparations that will have to be done at Shearwater before 2008?
Col. Blair: Yes, quite a number of preparations will be required. Under the auspices of the maritime helicopter program, we are getting only the infrastructure that is absolutely essential to support the Cyclone. However, other infrastructure issues will have to be addressed. At the moment, they are being addressed under a master realty asset development plan that Formation Halifax is putting together under the lead of the Chief of the Maritime Staff. Suffice to say that there will have to be quite a number of projects. The next few years will be very busy as we replace some of our decaying infrastructure and bring in other projects that are required.
The Chairman: Colonel Matte gave us a number: $50 million over the next five years. Could we get the number for Shearwater?
Col. Blair: I do not know the number, senator. I only know of the $45 million for the Maritime Helicopter Training Centre. Nothing else has been committed at this point. I do not know what the figure will end up being.
The Chairman: You listed for the committee a number of other enhancements necessary for infrastructure. Where do we go to get that number?
Col. Blair: The Chief of the Maritime Staff has the lead on that, though the Assistant Deputy Minister (Infrastructure and Environment) and the Chief of the Air Staff are also involved.
Senator Cordy: Are the plans all in place? Have they been approved?
Col. Blair: No, they have not been approved at this point. We are still working on the plans, which is why I do not have the figure that the senator was looking for.
Senator Cordy: Colonel Blair, you spoke about 900 military personnel and 36 civilians. Are reservists included in that900 military personnel?
Col. Blair: Yes, they are. We have 155 reserves in 12 Wing and they are seamlessly integrated in every unit within the wing.
Senator Cordy: I was going to ask you both about the number of reservists you have and the role that they play. You say that at Shearwater the reservists are integrated seamlessly?
Col. Blair: They are. They are part of every organization. When I do my regular walk-around of the units, I have no way of telling who is reserve and who is regular force. They work side by side.
Senator Cordy: What about you, Colonel Matte?
Col. Matte: The same thing is true in Greenwood. Over the years we have integrated the reserves into the units. They work side by side with the regular forces and, much like Colonel Blair said, you would not know who is reserve or who regular force unless you actually knew the person. As I indicated, I have upwards of 180 to 200 reservists; they are employed in just about all trades across the breadth of the wing, from aircrew right down to clerks.
Senator Cordy: Where do the reservists at Greenwood come from? Are they from all around the valley area or do they come from the South Shore also?
Col. Matte: We do have reservists on the South Shore with the Airfield Engineering Flight. There are about 162 reservists in total, I think, established through three different flights down on the South Shore. Those employed at Greenwood are from the surrounding area itself. The vast majority are class A reservists, which is to say they work 12 days a month.
Senator Cordy: I would like to discuss housing and quality of life. The housing at Shearwater and at Greenwood is quite old. What is the condition of the housing on the base? Do most people choose to live on the base or do they live off the base?
Col. Matte: At Greenwood, we are working towardshaving under the Canadian Forces Housing Agency approximately 568 married quarters in the next year or so. That is based on the calculation of requirements over time. Over the years most of the private married quarters, or PMQs, have undergone a great deal of upgrading. The rent is an issue with some of the folks, but the rent is based on market rents in the surrounding communities and we try to ensure that the rents we charge for PMQs are comparable to those of similar dwellings in the communities. Unfortunately, in recent years a number of people have elected not to rent. With the mortgage rates as low as they are, people are looking at housing as a long-term investment. Many of my folks are homeowners, and they are spread out from up around the Windsor area all the way down to the Cornwallis area.
Col. Blair: On the Shearwater side, although I have the privilege of having the quarters in my backyard, they are actually owned by Halifax or administered by Halifax through Canadian Forces Housing Agency. We have about 300 quarters. Quite a lot of work has been done on them over the last few years, and I would say that they are in better shape now than they used to be. In fact, they are in quite good shape, although more work is required, and the base commander is working with the Canadian Forces Housing Agency on that. We have a very low vacancy rate.
Senator Cordy: Are the rents set to be comparable to the rents in other parts of Dartmouth, or are the rents set according to your salaries?
Col. Blair: There is a salary factor for the very junior ranks, in that what they pay is not allowed to go above a certain percentage of their salary. For the rest, as Colonel Matte said, rents are based on the market rents for similar units in the surrounding area.
Senator Cordy: Do you work at all with NORAD? I know you both mentioned your people going on NATO missions. Do you have a tie-in at all with NORAD, or is the link made directly through Ottawa?
Col. Matte: The only tie-in I have with NORAD is my ability to support forward-deployed fighters — CF-18s principally.I do have the capacity to receive and support the operations of CF-18s, but I do not, at 14 Wing Greenwood, have a NORAD role. I do involve myself with NATO, mainly to build up our skill sets and capabilities and inter-operability with our allies. It may be obvious, but I have very little to do with NORAD as a helicopter —
Senator Cordy: If you got a call, you would be available.
Col. Blair: The only interaction we have is to make sure that we advise them and communicate with them as we are transiting to and from the ships at sea in the air identification zone.
Senator Cordy: You both spoke about the shortage of pilots. As a result of the recruitment gap in the 1990s you have people with 15 years or more experience and you have new people coming in, but you have no middle management, as they would say in the business world. How is that going to affect us in five years time when people with 20 or more years of service decide that they have had enough? Are there plans to encourage people to stay? I am referring not only to pilots but also to technicians. Certainly the technicians have been extremely busy, particularly at Shearwater, and they have done a great job maintaining the Sea Kings. They are working very hard.
Col. Blair: As I said in my introductory comments, really it is the technicians that we are most concerned about at the moment. Thankfully they are not all coming up to retirement at the same time, so there will be a phased approach. I have more apprentices now probably than we have ever had in the wing. The challenge is retention and then training the new people so that they are able to take over from the retiring experienced technicians. On the wing we are working on the training side. I know the air force is working on improving the depth of training that we provide to people coming in so that they are able to step up and take on more of those responsibilities sooner than they might have able to in the past. On the retention side, I know there are discussions going on but I am not privy to those. All I can do, from my perspective, is try to improve the quality of life for each technician on the wing, and we do our best to do that.
Col. Matte: The situation at 14 Wing is quite similar. I have problems with experience and trained effective strength, but it is felt probably the strongest with my maintenance technicians. Over the last year, with the support of the air force and the Chief of the Air Staff, 14 Wing has been very proactive. I have 14 Auroras and three Arcturus aircraft at Greenwood. We received approval, as of January of this year, to retire early one of the Arcturus aircraft which was already slated for retirement. We have set up a tactical training flight where we are now able to provide hands-on, dedicated and supervised training and standards to our airframe technicians with a goal to reduce the period of time it takes for an apprentice to reach journeyman. They call it 60 per cent performance of maintenance. We are looking at knocking about 22 months off that training period, which is currently about 48 months. With this focused training, we know the technicians are getting quality instruction. We know they understand the proper procedures and standards that are expected of them, and in-between their two courses they are actually getting line exposure as opposed to just hands on the aircraft. We are very optimistic that we will be able to start addressing some of our concerns, not only the shortfall in trained technicians but also the period of time it takes to get new people trained.
Senator Cordy: It seems almost a catch-22: if you are short-staffed, then to take staff to train the apprentices is also a challenge.
Col. Matte: You are exactly right, senator, but if we do not take steps now, we are never going to be able to close the gap later. With the support of higher headquarters, we were able to hire a few reserves. We assigned a few of our maintenance technicians to the teaching phase. If in the course of a year I can develop another 20 or 30 qualified technicians, then I can leave back a couple of those to assist in the training over the next few years. It is self-serving for me to absorb this requirement now rather than wait for another couple of years, because it would be well beyond my ability to address it then.
Senator Cordy: That t makes sense. Thank you both very much.
The Chairman: Before I give the floor to Senator Nolin, I would like recognize that Senator Munson has arrived. He was unwell earlier today and we are pleased that he has joined us.
Senator Munson: I arrived on a fixed-wing aircraft.
The Chairman: Let the record show that Senator Munson arrived on a fixed-wing aircraft.
Senator Nolin: I want to address first the challenges of maintenance and training. I want to understand the time frame, because time is an important factor in your problem. The first new Cyclone will arrive in 2008. You will have to maintain two sets of technicians. How are you going to manage in the latter time zone of your problem?
Col. Blair: That is correct, senator. It is a balancing act.
Senator Nolin: What would be the incentive for someoneto learn something that will be needed for only 12 monthsor 13 months?
Col. Blair: At some point we will stop training on the various systems for the CH-124. We will reduce to a small number of people who have those qualifications and they will remain with the aircraft until the end.
Senator Nolin: What is the time? Four years?
Col. Blair: Overall it is a four-year process from 2008 to 2012.
Senator Nolin: You are hopeful that you will be able to offer the service properly?
Col. Blair: Yes, senator. Like everything that ColonelMatte and I do, it is a balancing act. We are playing the balance to maintain a capability with the Sea King as we bring in the CH-148 Cyclone, and then at some point the CH- 148 will take over the weight of the operational capability. There will not be a short, abrupt stop of operations.
Senator Nolin: I understand. There will be an overlap.
Col. Blair: I do not want to downplay the complexity of it. It is very complex.
Senator Nolin: That is why I am asking the question. I think it is going to be very complex. That is why I want to understand how you are going to face that problem.
Col. Blair: It is complex. Fortunately I have some very smart people working on that problem.
Senator Nolin: Ministers usually answer that way. I want to understand how that problem is being addressed: through incentive? Money? Retention? Of course, retention is a fancy word for a better offer for a similar job.
Col. Blair: I am not sure I understand the incentive aspect of your question, Senator.
Senator Nolin: Well, if you want to retain someone, you have to offer an incentive for that person to stay with you.
Col. Blair: Right.
Senator Nolin: In an earlier answer, you said that you were not privy to that part of the discussions.
Col. Blair: Yes, but that is beyond the scope of my requirement to —
Senator Nolin: But you have to be concerned with the answer.
Col. Blair: I certainly do, from a strategic perspective, a personnel perspective. I hope that programs are put in place to ensure that we do not lose experienced technicians. As I said to Senator Cordy, I look after the individuals, but it is not up to me to set the overall program for technicians across the air force. It may surprise you, but most of our technicians love the Sea King. It is more likely to be a question of how to get the technicians off the Sea King, not how to keep them motivated to stay with the Sea King.
Senator Nolin: I never thought of that problem.
Col. Blair: Many of them love the aircraft.
Senator Nolin: Challenging?
Col. Blair: Challenging, yes.
Senator Nolin: Speaking of challenges, I am sure you both read the long-awaited defence review document that we received a week or so ago. How does it affect your wing?
Col. Matte: Are you referring to the defence policy statement?
Senator Nolin: Yes.
Col. Matte: We have read what was published. It is a very strategic-level document. It still points us in the direction that we, within the air force, had been proceeding towards with regards to the Chief of the Air Staff and Strategic Vectors. There is no real impact for me at this point, senator — not until the air force and our seniors are able to translate the strategic aspects into the more operational and tactical elements. It is at that stage that I will understand exactly what it means at 14 Wing, what it means for my folks, what it means for my capabilities and what it means for our future. But at this stage right now it is very strategic and it just gives us some focus as to where the Canadian Armed Forces as a whole are going.
Senator Nolin: Would you have the same answer, Colonel Blair?
Col. Blair: Yes, senator.
Senator Nolin: For your wing, with your new equipment, what do you think?
Col. Blair: It is exciting to consider the document in combination with the equipment that we have got coming in. We are facing exciting times, and the personnel on the wing are excited. However, I agree with Colonel Matte that it is difficult to get a grasp on what it means until the strategic level is translated into actual plans.
Senator Nolin: What, specifically, are you excited about?
Col. Blair: It has been quite some time since we had any real change in policy or change in direction within the Canadian Forces and it is nice to see a document that sets us along a new path.
Senator Nolin: Do you have any excitement more specific to your day-to-day job or your future roles? Do you see more roles or different approaches?
Col. Blair: Potentially. The document is very broad in scope but again, until that gets brought down to my level, it is difficult to say. However, the potential is there.
Senator Nolin: On a totally different subject, Colonel Matte, you mentioned that the replacement value of all your real estate is almost $500 million. Do you pay annual taxes to someone, to a municipal body?
Col. Matte: Yes.
Senator Nolin: It must be a huge tax.
Col. Matte: If my memory serves me correctly, it is around$1.9 million a year. But you have to understand, that is not only for my holdings at the wing; it is also for all of the other elements and units — the armouries and the camps — that fall under my control.
Senator Nolin: The mayor must be very happy.
The Chairman: Does that come out of your budget?
Col. Matte: Pardon me?
The Chairman: Is that out of your budget?
Col. Matte: The funding is directed as part of my budget, yes.
Senator Nolin: What is the average age of pilots working in each of your wings?
Col. Matte: At 14 Wing I know the average age is younger than I am, but that is a very difficult question to answer.
Senator Nolin: The gender breakdown is also part of my question.
Col. Matte: We always have new folks coming in who are fresh out of university, so on the low end the aircrew would be in their twenties. At the high end they could be in their mid-forties. The average age is probably around 30 years.
Senator Nolin: Thirty years old.
Col. Matte: With respect to the gender balance at 14 Wing, I believe the indication was that I have about 225 females employed at 14 Wing, military regular force, and 11 per cent of those are aircrew.
Senator Nolin: For you, Colonel Blair?
Col. Blair: I do not know the average age. It is not something that I keep track of, but I think it is a fair statement to say that —
Senator Forrestall: You are not allowed to.
Col. Blair: It is not something we do. I think it is a fair statement to say that aircrew are coming in at a later age now than when I joined, as an example. At 21 years old I was one of the older folks in aircrew training 25 or 26 years ago. It is not uncommon now to have someone in their late twenties or early thirties show up fresh out of training with a wife and one or two children. As for an average age, I would only be guessing. We have 126 females across the wing in all trades. Probably about 10 per cent or fewer than 10 per cent of my aircrew are female.
The Chairman: On the question of age, would it be a difficult task for you to provide the committee with the demographics by trade of the people on your bases?
Col. Matte: It may take time to gather the data, but if you would like to have the information, it could be made available.
The Chairman: Specifically, we would like to get a better picture of when people are retiring and which trades are going to be stressed.
Col. Blair: I do not know whether that information is available by wing, but it is available across the air force by trade.
The Chairman: Would we be better to go to Admiral Jarvis for the information, then?
Col. Blair: Yes. It is certainly available in the big picture. I do not know whether they track it down to the wing level, to be perfectly honest.
The Chairman: You have both been talking about the challenges of dealing with folks that are leaving soon.
Col. Matte: Yes, because —
The Chairman: Because that is your job.
Col. Matte: Right.
The Chairman: What we are trying to get a grip on here is the absence of programs to assist you in keeping those people. Senator Nolin was talking a moment ago about incentives. Programs to keep people in are not dreamed up overnight, they take awhile. If you have not seen a sign of them coming forward yet and you are dealing with this problem on a day-to-day basis, I wonder if we will get the program only after you have a complete group of apprentices working on your equipment.
Col. Blair: I have no way of being able to answer that. The Assistant Deputy Minister (Human Resources — Military) will be able to.
The Chairman: That is fair ball. We will ask him that question. If you do not have the figures handy, there is no point in having a clerk run them up for us. We will get them there. It seems surprising, however, that there has been no discussion of something tangible to keep people in if we are going to lose them. You have given us the impression that you spend a great deal of time managing this each week. Have we got it right?
Col. Blair: Yes.
The Chairman: How long does it take for a helicopter to fly from Shearwater to Greenwood?
Col. Blair: From Shearwater to Greenwood? It is 63 nautical miles in a straight line, so 30 to 35 minutes.
The Chairman: The impression that I certainly have from your testimony so far is that housing is pretty good here. At lunch we are going to be eating with the other ranks. Are they going to tell us that?
Col. Matte: That I could not tell you, senator, because I am down in the valley and I do not imagine you will be lunching with any of my folks there.
The Chairman: Oh, half the committee is hiking over there. They heard the food was better.
Col. Blair: I have no idea. You are liable to get a spectrum of opinion, senator.
The Chairman: You must have a feedback system; you must have some sense of what the enlisted personnel on the base think of your housing.
Col. Blair: As I said, it is Halifax's housing, so you might ask Captain MacIsaac tomorrow if he has a feedback system in place for that.
The Chairman: But these folks work with you.
Col. Blair: The PMQs at Shearwater are not strictly for air force personnel. Fewer than 50 per cent are air force. We also have navy and army.
The Chairman: My point was that you must have some view of what the enlisted personnel who work for you think about the housing.
Col. Blair: I do not have any direct feedback system to get that.
The Chairman: The last time we were here, we heard the phrase ``jetty hopping'' an awful lot. Is that still something that happens?
Col. Blair: No, senator, it is not. It is something that we go to great pains to try to avoid. Just to clarify, jetty hopping is when a detachment returns from being deployed on one ship and immediately turns around and is deployed on another ship. That is not something we do.
The Chairman: I have been taking a few notes while listening to you. It is disturbing to hear the same story right across the country — a shortage of spare parts and personnel demographics such that you are going to experience a gap that will be a problem for almost a decade. Stop me anywhere if you do not agree.
Col. Matte: With respect to the demographics, senator, most of the time we are referring specifically to the maintenance techs. They are the focus of our time and concern right now. I do not have at my fingertips the demographics for the other military occupational classifications. The demographics issue that I am aware of is this: there is a deep dip in the experience level from the apprentice up to about 15 years of service. We are very healthy at 15 years of service and out. The concern in planning for attrition with regards to retirement is the inability to determine whether a member will elect to retire early or elect to retire at 20 years of service or elect to stay for the entire 35 years. If we can proactively bring in maintainers at a higher rate and train those that we already have in a shorter period of time, we can manage the gap properly. The situation is not ideal, but it is manageable. Those are the specific demographics that we have referred to, because our attention and focus are drawn to where we have the most serious problems. That problem is very evident across the air force.
The Chairman: We understood the creative approach you have with training with the extra aircraft you have, but the message that we are taking away, and correct me if I am wrong, is that there is a gap there and that both of these bases have a problem. We have heard the same thing, that there is a shortage, at literally every other air force base in the country. Without adequately trained technicians, you do not have functioning planes.
Col. Matte: It is a little more complicated than that. If I had the trained technicians but I did not have the parts readily available, that would still stall the —
The Chairman: I was coming to parts next. It is on the list.
Senator Nolin: That is an easy one.
The Chairman: Dealing with personnel, are we correct in taking away the message that you two are facing a gap of perhaps a decade where you are going to have problems with technical personnel?
Col. Blair: Senator, there is nothing we can do about that dip. That dip is a fact. It is going to follow. It is going to track along for the next 10 or 15 years and there is nothing that anyone in this room can do about it. The only option we have is to manage it as best we can. That is what we have been discussing. Our focus has been on getting the new technicians trained as quickly as possible and to a higher level so that we can bring them up to fill in some of the holes as that demographic dip moves through.
The Chairman: I understand that, colonel. I have been paying attention to what you have been saying, and what I have heard you say is that you have some creative ways of training people faster, which is one way of addressing the problem. The other way, which we have not heard, is to ensure that people stay in longer. A message we are taking away, and again correct me if I am wrong, is that you do not have a program to ensure that people stay in longer and that that might be useful.
Col. Matte: I am not aware of any retention incentive for this particular military occupational classification, but I do know that the idea is being discussed among other issues and elements to address our shortfall. I just do not have the specifics.
The Chairman: With respect to parts, are they not available because it is not economic to make them, or is it a question of the system? Do you have a just-in-time delivery system and those are not coming just in time? At lunch after lunch when we talk to air force technicians, we hear that one of the greatest frustrations of their daily work is that a part that they need to complete a job does not arrive. Why is the part not there? Is it because the manufacturers are not making it, or is the part somewhere in the supply chain and not arriving in a timely way?
Col. Blair: I think it is a combination of all of those things, depending on the part. There has been pressure on the national procurement budget over the years to the point where things that were on the shelf 10 years or 20 years ago are no longer on the shelf. Therefore we have to go out to get them as the need arises, and that can take time and possibly more time with an older aircraft.
The Chairman: What I am hearing is that every platform you have is operating at about 40 per cent of what it should be.
Col. Blair: Forty per cent for the Sea King fleet has not changed really in the 25 years that I have been in. We may dip to 35 per cent or go up to 45 per cent, but historically 40 per cent has been our availability for quite some time.
Col. Matte: On the Aurora side, the 40 per cent serviceability is after you factor out the aircraft that are tied up in other maintenance programs. As Colonel Blair explained, national procurement establishes the contracts to meet the demand for a specific flying rate for a given fleet. If there are not sufficient national procurement funds up front, then sufficient supplies and parts are not bought in advance. We do not really stockpile parts and supplies any more; rather, we have more just-in-time delivery. We have had problems with the supply system. Being proactive, 14 Wing has come up with other means to identify and highlight critical and timely requirements for parts, called a critical parts list. We are now better able to expedite shortfalls and have those parts delivered at the wing in a more timely manner. However, you are correct that, at the end of the day, there will be stories of maintenance that could not progress because the part was not there.
Senator Nolin: If we were talking about an ordinary car and parts available at any Canadian Tire type of shop, I would agree with you. Cash flow is a problem. However, you have specific equipment that will require specific parts, unless we decide not to use the Sea Kings further. You already know what parts you will need next month, in 12 months, in 24 months. I am sure you can plan that. Are you asking the hierarchy in Ottawa to change the way things are done to make sure that you will have those parts and that we will not hear technicians saying, ``We cannot do the job because the parts are not there?'' I hope the answer is yes.
The Chairman: Do not coach the witnesses.
Col. Matte: That was a rather difficult question and I do not have a cut and dry response for you. We do have an appreciation for those parts that we would call consumables. Much like with a car, I can anticipate that after 5,000 kilometres or 5,000 miles I will bring it into the shop and I will change the oil and replace the filter. There are a number of consumables that we anticipate and normally have readily available. The difficulty is when an unexpected piece of equipment or component breaks. At times it also seems that if one component goes, by chance we have a string of the same failure, and that creates a backlog in the system, because all of a sudden we need six of a particular gadget immediately. Even if we had planned for it, there might only be one or two actually available in the system at that point. I do not really have much of a problem with regards to the consumables. The difficulty is the unknown: there is a plethora of engine and avionics components that could break, and each one on its own might be sufficient to take an aircraft out of service until that component comes in.
The Chairman: Colonels, you are both very impressive officers. The committee feels terribly proud when we see people like you come before us. We are learning to interpret some of the things that officers like you say to us, and I think we are starting to understand some of the challenges that you face. They are enormous. This committee is very impressed with the way you do meet the challenges and with the skill that you demonstrate. We would like you to communicate for us to those who work for you and with you how proud we are of the work that they are doing. We recognize how difficult the circumstances are. We see an obligation on our part to focus on these issues and to address them, and we will endeavour to do that when the time comes to report. On behalf of the committee, I would like to thank you very much.
Senator Munson: Just one short question.
The Chairman: Okay, but we are holding up the enlisted people who are waiting for us outside. Senator Munson?
Senator Munson: This is a very selfish question, but I have to ask it. It has to do with the SAR techs, the people in search and rescue.
When I was a CTV journalist based here in Halifax, I went on a few missions with the folks at Greenwood. At the time I could not believe that those people, who are heroes for the work they do, received such a small amount of money for that work. I did not think it was right.
Col. Matte: Senator, I cannot say whether or not they are getting paid more and whether they deserve more. I would tend to agree with you that many of our people deserve more. We just had a recent pay increase across both the non- commission and the officer ranks. Coupled with that was an increase for specialty pay and hazard pay for the particular military occupational classification that includes the SAR techs. I could not quantify exactly what the increase in their pay has been, but I know that many of them have also indicated that they just love what they do and money is not the issue. They thoroughly enjoy putting their life on the line to save others, jumping out of a serviceable aircraft under a parachute. They are extremely dedicated to their job, so it is not necessarily a money issue for them.
The Chairman: We understand that air force officers do not understand anyone who wants to jump out of a serviceable aircraft. We have a general here who tells us that on a regular basis.
Once again, please do convey our thanks and our pride to those who work with you. They are doing an important job and we are very grateful to them.
Col. Matte: Thank you, senator.
The committee adjourned.