Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Foreign Affairs
Issue 8 - Evidence - Meeting of February 22, 2005
OTTAWA, Tuesday, February 22, 2005
The Standing Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs met this day at 5:51 p.m. to examine the development and security challenges facing Africa; the response of the international community to enhance that continent's development and political stability; and Canadian foreign policy as it relates to Africa.
Senator Peter A. Stollery (Chairman) in the Chair.
[English]
The Chairman: Honourable senators, I am going to call the meeting to order.
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to this meeting of the Standing Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs. We are continuing with our special study on Africa, as ordered by the Senate on December 8.
[Translation]
We are pleased to welcome three witnesses who will talk about AIDS, one of the most serious problems facing Africa. We will first hear from Marie-Hélène Bonin, representing the Canadian Labour Congress and the Interagency Coalition on AIDS and Development.
[English]
We will then hear from Mr. Kevin Perkins, Executive Director of Canada Africa Partnership on AIDS.
[Translation]
Finally, we will welcome Mrs. Dorothée Gizenga Ngolo, Programme Officer, Partnership Africa Canada.
[English]
Tomorrow we will receive the High Commissioner of Nigeria, His Excellency, O.O. George, who will give us an overview of his country, the challenges it faces, as well as the Nigerians' efforts in maintaining security, not only in the West Africa sub-region but also on the continent at large. I remind everyone that the population of Nigeria now is somewhere in the neighbourhood of 125 million, or 25 per cent of Africa's population south of the Sahara.
Today, we will have our first thematic hearing, touching many points of our order of reference, namely development, security and Canadian policy. Last week, Mr. Amoako told us very clearly, ``It is no exaggeration to say that today AIDS is the greatest threat to Africa's development.''
This is why it is critical that we have a hearing on this subject today, a subject which is not at all theoretical but rather horrendously real.
[Translation]
Ms. Marie-Hélène Bonin, Representative (Africa and HIV/AIDS) of the Canadian Labour Congress and Board Member of the Interagency Coalition on AIDS and Development: Thank you for your interest in our work. I will first address you briefly in French and will continue in English; afterwards, I will be pleased to reply in French to any questions you may have.
As the committee chair said, I represent the Canadian Labour Congress where I also act as representative in charge of Africa and HIV/AIDS in the International Department.
The Canadian Labour Congress is at the heart of Canadian unionization, representing almost 3 million Canadian workers from many sectors of the economy, both public and private.
I also represent the Board of Directors of the Interagency Coalition on AIDS and Development, which is a partnership of over a hundred Canadian organizations including organized labour, a large number of associations supporting people living with HIV/AIDS in Canada and a certain number of aid organizations working abroad on HIV/AIDS projects, especially in Africa. The coalition's primary work is in Canada, providing services to its members and informing the public on issues related to HIV/AIDS and development.
Our activities therefore fall within the framework of your discussion today. With your permission, I will now continue in English.
[English]
In November, the Canadian Labour Congress submitted to Minister Goodale its comments on the consultation document produced by the International Commission for Africa, Action for a Strong and Prosperous Africa. This document is now available to the members of the committee through your clerk, Mr. François Michaud. The document is available in both languages.
In our comments, we have insisted on reviewing briefly what we think are the strengths and the weaknesses of the last action plan on Africa adopted by Canada prior to the Kananaskis meeting, and the action implemented by the G8. We tried to see how this action could be strengthened in the future.
In our view, the fundamental issues that need to be looked at for Africa, within the framework of Canada's current international policy review, as well as within the lead-up to the G8 summit of this summer and the millennium review summit in the fall, are four broad areas.
First of all, the issue of partnerships to us is very important. As suggested by the name of the NEPAD, the New Partnership for Africa's Development, I think it is also important for African leaders. Unfortunately, in the past, there has been a partnership developed that excluded civil society representatives on the Africa side particularly, but also in Canada. We insist that in the years to come the partnership be reinforced and widened to include not only government representatives and business leaders, but also trade union representatives, NGOs and smaller civil society organizations, in order to represent the masses of the people in Africa.
The second issue of centrality for us is the fight against poverty in Africa. We see that in all the initiatives taken by the international community to address poverty, one key strategy is underestimated. Little attention is paid to the creation and conservation of decent jobs in Africa. This, to us, is the first and foremost strategy: to address poverty and thus other problems such as HIV/AIDS that often occur because of vulnerability caused by poverty.
This leads me to our third key challenge for Africa which is indeed the HIV and AIDS pandemic. It is the key challenge not only for public health in Africa, but also for the preservation and development of the gains that have been made in the past decades in all sectors, be it of society, the economy, governments, national institutions, culture, and so on.
If HIV/AIDS is not addressed urgently, not only as a matter of public health but also as a development matter, all the gains achieved in the past decades are in danger.
The fourth key concern for us with regard to Africa is the full participation of women in all aspects of development. Again, without addressing the special needs of women in Africa, we will not be able to address successfully the challenges raised by the pandemic. Gender equality and issues of poverty are very intimately intertwined with the growth of the pandemic in Africa.
Finally, the CLC generally believes that trade liberalization is the wrong entry point when talking about development. In Africa, we have very serious doubts, and we said that before Kananaskis but in the meantime we have seen further proof of what we were seeing then. Free trade is not the answer to fight poverty and develop the continent. A number of the agreements that have been signed at the global level, including those that have allowed now the Chinese textiles to enter the African markets last month, as one example, have led to lots of loss of employment, further poverty, and further vulnerability to disease such as HIV and AIDS. We must be extremely careful about how trade liberalization is implemented in Africa.
Looking more closely at the issue of HIV/AIDS, Interagency Coalition on AIDS and Development, ICAD, has submitted for your attention a brief paper, identifying key issues and recommendations.
The first one pertains to leadership and the need for policy coherence. The recommendation here, to insure greater coherence in the action of all Canada's departments in relation to HIV and AIDS, would be to appoint an ambassador or a special representative on AIDS reporting to the Prime Minister.
The second key issue identified by the coalition, and I will come back to it in more detail later on, is that of HIV/ AIDS in the workplace. As a representative of workers, of course, this is an area of particular concern, and that is where we have the greatest contribution to make. The coalition of Canadian organizations recognizes the need to address the impact of HIV/AIDS on the workforce in Africa, both in terms of preventing the further spread of the disease among the workers but also in terms of mitigating the impact on those who are already infected and may not yet be sick, or may be sick but still able to work if properly supported and cared for, both at work and in society as a whole.
We have a range of proposals and recommendations that Canada could look at to make a special contribution in this regard in order to protect the very fragile economy of African countries through the protection of its labour force. We are talking of workers that are working both in the formal and informal sectors of the economy. Whether they are unionized or not, all workers need very special and urgent attention. I am not referring only to health workers or teachers, as often is the case in many global interventions with workers. The crisis we see in the health sector at the moment with nurses and doctors too sick to care for the sick is the tip of the iceberg. Every single worker group in society in all the sectors is as much at risk as those who are working in the health sector. The eventual collapse of the health sector is no different from the eventual collapse of all other sectors of the economy, as well as institutions, and that has serious impact on governance, stability and conflict resolution.
The third area of concern for ICAD is the mainstreaming of HIV/AIDS on the global agenda. In this regard, we think that Foreign Affairs Canada and Industry Canada should undertake an analysis of how HIV/AIDS issues can be introduced in trade and diplomatic discussions. They are also clearly relevant in peace and security discussions, but I will not get into details on that because my sister Ms. Dorothée Ngolo will talk about that shortly.
Another very important concern for everyone in ICAD is the need to address the gender dimension of HIV and AIDS. The recommendations made are to develop a more comprehensive response to gender vulnerability by supporting not only treatment and prevention mechanisms such as microbicides but also the kind of factors that inhibit prevention and that are directly related to the position of women in African society. By empowering women as workers, mothers and agricultural producers, we empower them also to face the pandemic, protect themselves, negotiate sex and access health services. It is an overall package. You cannot be weak in everything and then suddenly be strong when it is time to fight HIV and AIDS, so it is important to strengthen women in all aspects in order for them to be less vulnerable to the pandemic in Africa.
Finally, there is the issue of resources. You probably hear more than us about the rumours about tomorrow's budget, but we are very hopeful that indeed there will be a speeding up in reaching the target of 0.7 per cent of our GDP for development aid. We are really behind. I am in Africa four or five times a year. It is embarrassing to be a Canadian when you meet European counterparts, for example. Our country does not give much, and it is time to redress this situation, especially when we think of Africa and the pandemic.
However, we also need to keep pushing on debt cancellation, and we also need to make sure that trade liberalization is not making Africa poorer than it is already, and making African governments unable to allocate the resources needed to fight the pandemic.
The International Labour Organization, ILO, which, as you know, is this unique UN body made up of government, employers and trade union representatives, currently estimates the total worker population infected with HIV at 26 million.
The Chairman: In Africa alone?
Ms. Bonin: In the world.
The Chairman: What about Africa?
Ms. Bonin: I do not have that under my eyes, but it is probably 20 million, I would say. According to the ILO:
HIV/AIDS is a human crisis, but it is also a threat to sustainable social and economic development. By causing the illness and death of workers, the HIV/AIDS epidemic reduces the stock of skills and experience of the labour force. This loss in human capital is a direct threat to goals for poverty eradication and sustainable development. The cumulative loss of labour force participants worldwide is projected by the ILO to reach 28 million in 2005, 48 million in 2010 and 74 million in 2015, in the absence of increased access to treatment.
Illness for a period prior to death also reduces the economic contribution of otherwise economically active men and women. The ILO estimates that globally, by 2005, over 2 million labour force participants will be unable to work at any time as a result of HIV and AIDS, and by 2015, the number will be well over 4 million.
In developing its global response, but more specifically its African response, to HIV and AIDS, Canada needs to make greater use of the value-added of Canadians working in HIV/AIDS, such as the members of the ICAD coalition. As well there needs to be greater use of African civil society organizations that have the capacity to address the pandemic but need access to resources. This week we had a visit from our sister from the Nigeria Labour Congress who is responsible for the HIV/AIDS program for the Nigeria Labour Congress, which represents four million organized workers and unions. This is a great many people. We are not talking about small community organizations in a bush over there somewhere. Rather, we are talking of a massive, well-organized labour movement. This lady is faced with having to service and develop capacities, to train people, to provide prevention programs and support and to lobby for 26 unions with next to no resources. This is where Canada could make a difference.
Mr. Kevin Perkins, Executive Director, Canada Africa Partnership on AIDS: Good afternoon. I am the founder and executive director of Canada Africa Partnership on AIDS, CAP AIDS. I will begin by thanking the committee for this opportunity to participate and to contribute to the Africa study of the Standing Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs.
CAP AIDS was formed just over two years ago by a small group of Canadians and Africans who felt strongly that Canadians could and should do more to support and assist Africans affected by the devastating AIDS pandemic. Our conviction emerged from a number of alarming facts, a few of which I will repeat, although senators are aware of many of them. Some 180,000 Africans die every month from AIDS, making it the leading cause of death on the continent. It is like a tsunami striking Africa each month. Daily, 11,000 more people are infected, and there are over 11 million children that have been orphaned by AIDS. That number is expected to grow to 40 million by the year 2030. Confronted with these facts, we are able to envision a day when our grandchildren would ask, what did you do when Africa was being devastated by AIDS?
We believe that many Canadians shared our desire to do more in response to the crisis and that they would want to help the heroic individuals and organizations struggling in villages and communities throughout Africa to confront AIDS. Therefore, we started CAP AIDS with a mission of helping Africans to resist, survive and overcome the pandemic. Since incorporating in 2003, CAP AIDS has received voluntary contributions of money and time from over 1,000 people and has provided contributions to nine community-based HIV/AIDS prevention and care partners in Africa. Based on this experience, we are more convinced than ever that Canadians can and must make a difference.
The challenge of AIDS is vast and complex, and is beyond my capacity to cover in the seven minutes that I have been allotted this evening, or even in seven weeks. I would, therefore, like to focus on two issues. First, I would like to draw attention to the many ways that AIDS is linked with all other development challenges faced in Africa and the need to make HIV/AIDS a major cross-cutting theme of all forms of Canadian cooperation and engagement with Africa. Second, I would like to encourage Canada to look forward by looking back to some of the innovative responsive programs that were developed to respond to similar challenges, such as the famine in the Horn of Africa in the early 1980s.
AIDS is negatively affecting every aspect of the social, economic and political development of Africa. It strikes people down in their prime, when they are raising their children, farming their lands, earning their wages, teaching future generations and leading their countries. By the same token, every development challenge that Africa is facing, whether poverty, poor health, gender inequality, or war and instability, is contributing and driving the spread of AIDS. I can illustrate these connections with the example of the links between AIDS and poverty, to which Ms. Bonin spoke briefly.
AIDS and poverty have a profound and mutually reinforcing link. AIDS is deepening poverty strikingly in many parts of Africa. For example, in Botswana, the annual income of the poorest household is expected to decline 13 per cent by 2015 because of AIDS. Those households each will absorb an average of four more dependents to look after, with their lower incomes. Looking at the equation the other way, poverty is driving the pandemic. It creates vulnerability and few options for earning income. For example, it fuels commercial sex work, which obviously makes women vulnerable. Just as the problem of AIDS cannot be overcome without eliminating poverty, the problem of poverty will not be overcome without action to control and respond to AIDS. The ubiquitous and pernicious impact of AIDS on every facet of life in Africa and on all prospects for future development means that it needs to be considered integrated into all areas of Canada-Africa cooperation, whether around basic education, peace and security, trade, or promoting good governance. Everything Canada does with Africa needs to contribute to the fight against AIDS. ICAD's proposal for an ambassador in Canada for HIV/AIDS is a good option to consider for helping to do this.
My second set of remarks is related to the vital importance of re-engaging Canadians and Canadian civil society in responding to the AIDS crisis in Africa. This is the very raison d'être of CAP AIDS and I believe it should become an important policy objective for Canada. The recent Canadian outpouring of support for people affected by the tsunami in Asia took everyone by surprise. Why was it a surprise? Based on the response of Canadians to the famine in the Horn of Africa in the 1980s, to the Vietnamese boat people refugee crisis in the 1970s, and to other international calamities, we have come to expect such Canadian generosity. After the recent tsunami, the government was compelled, and even led, by the people to behave generously by matching private donations to charities. The same thing happened 20 years ago after the Horn of Africa famine when the outpouring of Canadian donations from ordinary citizens led to the creation of new responsive programs, such as Partnership Africa Canada. CIDA provided some $150 million over ten years through that program to match the contributions of Canadians toward the initiatives of African NGOs. This can happen again with a focus on AIDS in Africa.
For some reason, despite positive independent evaluations of programs such as Partnership Africa Canada, in the 1990s CIDA began to turn away from these kinds of responsive programming. People-to-people and NGO-to-NGO partnerships are becoming, more and more, almost fringe elements of Canada's foreign aid strategy. In the Partnership Africa Canada program, the responsive components were eliminated and there have been reductions in the share of CIDA funding to the voluntary sector through the partnership branch.
When I recently read CIDA's draft strategic framework for HIV/AIDS, I did a word search on the word ``Canadian,'' and how often it appeared in the document. I was surprised to see that it appeared only twice. In both instances it was in the context of ``Canadian government.'' There is no reference to the potential to engage Canadians as partners with Africans in fighting the pandemic.
The Honourable Aileen Carroll, Minister of International Cooperation, I am happy to say, announced recently $2 million for a twinning project over two years. It is a good start but it pales in comparison to what could be done and what has been done in the past with excellent results. This is not to dispute or deny the very important and commendable contributions Canada is making, including a $15 million contribution to microbicide development, a $100 million contribution to the 3 by 5 campaign, and Bill C-9. However, I feel that the government has underestimated the potential for ordinary Canadians to respond to the AIDS crisis other than as taxpayers. This is despite the fact that Canadians contribute significantly to international aid as individual donors. In 1997, individual Canadians provided $760 million to charities in support of international relief and development. This made up 41 per cent of the total revenues of Canadian charities with an international focus, and it is nearly a third of the amount of CIDA's annual budget. Yet, support from individual Canadians represents a fraction of what it could be. Only 5 per cent of Canadians donate to international relief and development initiatives, and I feel there is untapped potential here. The potential for Canadians to help Africans directly is a powerful resource that can be mobilized, facilitated, mediated and amplified by Canada's foreign aid programs. This potential should not be overlooked and marginalized. That is why I believe one of the best things Canada can do in response to Africa's AIDS crisis is to unleash the power of a concerned, engaged and committed Canadian public. This will require a return to more responsive programs featuring government matches for private contributions, more public engagement and carefully mediated people to people partnerships.
I would like to close by thanking you again for inviting me to appear before you. This has been a real pleasure and honour for me. Thank you.
[Translation]
Ms. Dorothée Gizenga Ngolo, Programme Officer, Partnership Africa Canada: I will make my presentation mainly in English with only an introduction in French.
Partnership Africa Canada is an organization whose mandate is to work with African civil society in the area of human security.
[English]
We have been most recognized for our work with conflict diamonds, and in 2003 we were nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize, which we did not get, but it is still a great honour to have been nominated for such a distinguished prize.
As I said in French, we work with African civil society on issues of human security, and capacity building of the African civil society, in particular, to do the advocacy, the policy dialogue and the research required for that advocacy work.
It is my pleasure to be here today and to present to you the issue of HIV/AIDS. I am taking a specific focus. I am looking at HIV/AIDS and conflict.
In 2003, Partnership Africa Canada did consultations in 11 countries in Africa with our African partners, from east, west, central and southern Africa. We specifically work in countries that are emerging from conflict or still in conflict, as we did work in conflict diamonds in Sierra Leone, the Democratic Republic of Congo, and Angola. Those countries then had sanctions on exports of their diamonds, thanks to the mobilization of the civil society around the world and civilization of governments. Now, there is a Kimberley Process in place, which in my organization I am responsible for, that aims to curtail the illegal traffic of diamonds while protecting the legal diamond trade.
In those countries, specifically the republic of Congo, the Democratic Republic of Congo and Angola, one of the themes that came back very often was the importance of viewing HIV/AIDS beyond a health issue. It was the importance of viewing HIV/AIDS as a weapon of war. That is an element that is often forgotten, that HIV/AIDS is not just a pandemic. Today, in every conflict area, HIV/AIDS is used as a weapon of war where soldiers that are known to be HIV-positive are actually being sent to systematically commit sexual violence against women so that there is another way of depleting the population of that specific country.
Examples of that abound. AIDS in Africa is more than just another obstacle to development. It is a phenomenon that is changing demography, family structure and social relations, weakening economies and undermining governance. It has effectively thrown the process of political and economic development into reverse in a number of countries such as Botswana. Botswana was a great example of development in Africa. Now, it is being halted in its development by the brain loss to HIV/AIDS. Teachers, educators and doctors are all being lost.
In normal times the devastation brought by HIV/AIDS is already grave enough. It is no coincidence, however, that many countries plagued by conflict also have many serious HIV/AIDS epidemics. Armed conflict creates and exacerbates the conditions and the human rights abuses that make people particularly vulnerable to HIV/AIDS. Prolonged separation from family members, and increase in sexual and physical violence, forced displacement of populations, the breakdown of law and order, all put people, especially the young, at greater risk of infection.
Sexual and physical violence endured by women during the war is another war. It is war within the war.
The impoverishment that accompanies conflict often leaves women and girls so destitute that trading sex for survival becomes the only option for many. Synonymous with children of war is now the expression, the children of violence and HIV/AIDS. If you follow programs on TV where they speak to women that were victims of rape in Rwanda, the Congo and Angola, the women are giving birth to HIV-positive children that they do not want, and are rejecting. These are children of violence and HIV/AIDS, and that is becoming a big phenomenon now in Africa.
The most visible impact of the conflict is on the infrastructure needed to treat those affected by HIV/AIDS. We need to teach people how not to contract the virus. It depletes family and community resources to the extent they become less able to care for people living with the disease. In peacetime, the military has, on average, two to five times higher rates of sexually transmitted infections than comparable civilian populations. In times of conflict, the difference can be very much higher, 8 to 12 times higher. When soldiers are demobilized, often without any HIV testing or counselling, they may go back to their homes and transmit the virus to their wives or partners, and possibly to their future children.
HIV/AIDS, moreover, can make it harder to bring conflict to an end. To ensure sustainable and lasting peace, it is not enough simply to halt the fighting and implement disarmament and reintegration programs. As AIDS thins the ranks of trained and experience personnel required to fill these posts and adds to the complexity of demobilizing combatants, how successfully a country resolves internal conflict may depend in part on how well it incorporates HIV/ AIDS into its disarmament and reintegration programs, and how successfully it manages national response to the AIDS pandemic.
The world cannot wait for peace to respond to the HIV/AIDS epidemic. HIV/AIDS prevention and conflict prevention should go hand in hand. They are two blades of the scissors required to cut the HIV cord in Africa. Some 2.5 million Africans will have died of AIDS in 2004. One in four African countries presently suffers from the effects of armed conflict.
Law, order and governance have to be re-established very quickly. Regional and local administrations need to set up schools and open clinics very quickly. International communities should focus immediately on this issue of post- conflict reconstruction to assist current countries emerging from the conflict.
Again, HIV/AIDS should be addressed during a conflict rather than waiting until it has ended. There is a lot of talk about lowering the cost of retroviral drugs to 80 per cent of their actual value. When the population lives on one dollar a day, even if you lower the cost of HIV/AIDS retroviral drugs to 80 per cent of their cost value, they still cannot afford it.
The long-term response to HIV/AIDS should be the resolution of poverty issues. When people have jobs and incomes, they are then able to address AIDS, buy medication and have supportive systems for that.
We need to look at the models of intervention, and support such models internationally. We need to support models of intervention such as Médecins Sans Frontières that go into the country, partner with existing medical centres and provide expertise to those centres so that when they leave — because they are normally there a short time — the centres are able to do all the testing and to provide the counselling and services needed for those people.
Another recommendation we have is that a greater allocation needs to be given to technical and financial assistance for the military to prevent and treat HIV/AIDS. Greater resources to global funds to fight AIDS, tuberculosis and malaria are necessary as well.
I would like to leave you with the following words that I heard when I was in Angola. Somebody said, ``You can dialogue and negotiate with armed and rebel forces. You can dialogue with those that are pursuing ethnic conflicts as a solution for peace, but you cannot dialogue with HIV/AIDS.'' Thank you.
[Translation]
Senator Corbin: Mrs. Bonin, I listened closely to what you said. In the ``Governance'' section on page 26 of the French version of your working document, you say something that I found very surprising. The recommendation reads as follows:
We request the elimination of tax systems and direct foreign investment incentives that are designed to force Africa into choosing between foreign investment and sound taxation, transparency and programs to fight corruption.
Please explain why you include transparency and programs to fight corruption especially since everyone knows that there is a lack of transparency and that corruption is the scourge of many public administrations in Africa. If we were to implement those two requirements, we would, at the very least, be sending a very bad signal to the abusers.
Can you explain why transparency and programs to fight corruption were included in this recommendation?
Ms. Bonin: The point of this recommendation is that, in cases where there are problems with governance, transparency and corruption, we should not sit back and allow foreign investment without hope of ever collecting royalties on mineral rights or taxes on profits. That is the excuse currently being used to create the duty-free export zones in Africa that are popping up everywhere. The underlying argument is that, in any case, paying anything at all to these governments is a waste since they are so corrupt. So why even consider contributing to these countries?
There is a kind of collusion that is developing between investors, international financial institutions and government leaders to increasingly allow such duty-free zones where investors are free to invest without any obligation to pay taxes to a country where they can take advantage of very cheap non-unionized labour. That is usually one of the conditions. If a company opens a plant in a duty-free zone rather than on regular territory, it can control any hint of unionization, avoid paying taxes and bring all profits back home. In the end, a strategy originally designed to promote development ends up making only the multinational corporation richer because nothing is returned to the country. The argument used to support this policy is that there is no point in paying taxes because the taxation system does not work, the government is corrupt, et cetera.
Why can not we reform these systems of tax governance, invest in governance, put an end to corruption and benefit from foreign investment? At this time, the type of foreign investment that Africa attracts is structured to favour only multinational corporations. Africans do not benefit from it, nor do their governments, their national institutions or their populations because the investments are free of tax under the pretext that the government is corrupt. That is the issue.
Now that CIDA has decided to put more emphasis on anti-corruption programs, we believe that it will play a greater role in combating corruption and reinforcing governance rather than just following Industry Canada's strategy, which is to encourage investment without ensuring that corresponding contributions are paid to the country.
Senator Corbin: Are you saying that Canadian companies are playing this game?
Ms. Bonin: Absolutely.
Senator Corbin: Is this documented?
Ms. Bonin: Yes, it is documented.
Senator Prud'homme: Where there is corruption, there are corrupters.
Senator Corbin: I wonder if you can name names.
Mrs Bonin: I don't have any names offhand. I am not an expert on Canadian multinationals. I work specifically on HIV/AIDS. However, I can say that there are Canadian companies who manage to invest in so-called tax-free zones where they have practically no obligations.
Senator Corbin: And they avoid their social responsibilities towards the host country?
Ms. Bonin: Exactly. For example, ILO international conventions, signed by the host government, are quite often breached. Some women are forced to work 18-hour days, children under 18 years are put to work, employees are beaten and easily preventable work accidents occur. Canadian companies are not the only ones at fault, but they do have their share of responsibility.
Senator Corbin: On another subject, in Recommendation 12 on page 28 of the French version of the section on HIV/ AIDS, you suggest the following, and I quote:
All companies receiving financing from an agency in an industrialized country, such as CIDA or Export Development Canada (EDC), should be required to produce an annual report on HIV/AIDS, as is now the case for environmental practices.
Can you be more specific? What would such a report contain in terms of information and what would be the objective?
Ms. Bonin: The International Labour Organization has developed a tool entitled, ``The ILO Code of Practice on HIV/AIDS and the World of Work.'' According to Stephen Lewis, Kofi Annan's representative on HIV/AIDS, this is the best document produced by the United Nations on the subject. This code is not enforceable by law. It is a tool to guide employers and unions on how to implement practices in the workplace that will, on the one hand, limit the spread of the virus and, on the other, lessen the impact of the virus on the workplace and on workers' productivity. If you would like a copy of this document, I would be pleased to provide it either as an electronic file or in another format.
This code presents a series of mechanisms and actions that can be implemented jointly by representatives of both management and workers. This is the type of action that can be documented by Canadian companies. An example of the information that can be recorded could be as follows: a particular company might have an occupational health and safety committee that is in charge of HIV/AIDS. A committee is specifically created for HIV/AIDS because the country has a high rate of infection and a policy has been adopted for that particular workplace, benefits have been determined and workers of that particular company are given access to support services.
The measures included in this code were developed in cooperation with the International Association of Employers, UN member governments and international unions.
Senator Corbin: The document is a tool while you insist that the report should be made a requirement.
Ms. Bonin: This tool is not yet a requirement simply because there are dictatorship countries unprepared to sign an agreement protecting any rights of workers that involve risks related to HIV/AIDS. For those countries, we agreed to provide them with a tool that we urge them to apply.
Canadian companies come from a democratic country where signed agreements are respected and where labour laws are enforced. We are therefore in a position to require that these companies respect HIV/AIDS standards when they invest abroad.
[English]
Senator Andreychuk: I want to thank the witnesses because I know how hard they work to try to educate and identify the AIDS problems, and to find solutions that involve Canadians.
AIDS is not a new issue to Africa. It has been there for some time. There have been people working there. When most Canadians hear the statistics they are horrified at what is going on, yet it has not elicited an intense response or pressure on the Canadian government. The G8 summit in Kananaskis highlighted AIDS and the dilemma in Africa, and for a while there was discussion and input. It now does not seem to be the issue that is being discussed.
We are here as a Foreign Affairs committee, looking at the issues of Africa. How can we impress upon the Canadian government to do something differently, to provide more resources in a concentrated and consistent way? You know the dilemmas on the ground. What can we do here, and what recommendations should we make to the Canadian government or to Canadians?
Mr. Perkins: That is a very good question, senator.
It is true that the statistics are overwhelming and numbing, and I think it can be immobilizing. It can seem so insurmountable that it is easier to feel bad about it and not try to take it on. It is a challenge. It has been a challenge for any NGO that has tried to do more about it.
For us, first of all, we put it in human terms, or people terms. You can make a difference in a village, with a family, with a child, and with a community, and you can show some results from that for that community. That is one way to make it seem more possible to do something.
I do not know if this addresses your question about what to say to the government, but one of the things that we have started doing is simply providing bicycles to HIV/AIDS workers. These are community-based volunteers who go out and help people who are at home with AIDS. They help orphans get into school and find new homes, they do education and human rights advocacy and so on. It is a good strategy but places are far apart. There is no way of getting to them other than walking, so it is a common cause of these health workers burning out and giving up. By providing them with a $100 or $200 bicycle, they can see five or six times as many people. There is a little solution people can envisage, and they can see themselves engaging in that and making a difference in the lives of a few hundred people.
It sounds simple, but as much as possible, we can show that there are individuals who can be helped in a very meaningful way, and that it is within your capacity to help those individuals. That is why I said in my earlier remarks that it is important to give opportunities for people that connect directly with an initiative that reaches people at the grass roots, and they can visualize and feel part of it and feel good about it. Even though they are still concerned about the scale of the problem, they feel there is a piece of it that they have been able to help with.
Responsive programming, with people-to-people projects, can really do that and start to generate more support. As soon as people feel they can make a difference, they are more inclined to want to do that.
Ms. Ngolo: It is very important to focus on successes as well. We are here discussing a dooming issue, and Africa always presents this hopeless kind of image. The TV brings us a lot of that, but there are successes in Africa as well. Uganda is a case that has overcome a lot of issues, not only HIV/AIDS. We use that as an example to show that when action is taken, change can occur. It is very important, and that is the message to the Canadian government. Help them, the organizations and the civil society in Africa, and if you can help them to take action, change can occur. It happens, and when you look at it, there are successes in Africa that are happening.
This is a borderless issue. How can anyone, anywhere feel safe when this pandemic is growing on the African continent? No matter what immigration laws you create here in Canada, it will reach Canada, I guarantee you. It is already here. Before I was in Ottawa, I lived in Toronto, and I was volunteering with the African Community Health Services organization. We dealt with HIV-positive Africans that live in Toronto. The numbers were growing yearly. Some transmissions were done in Toronto, but some were immigrating with it. It is true for the Asian population in Toronto, and it is true for the African population in Toronto. How can anyone feel safe? If we do not put a face to that, because we think it is a far removed issue, we are very wrong. It is here and it is at home. We need to address it where it is strongest so that we catch its impact. In many ways we are doing that with terrorism. We address terrorism at the root of the matter because we do not want it to impact here in Canada. Pandemics should be addressed in the same way. Those issues need to be addressed in the same manner and they are invisible, unlike violent terrorism. AIDS is an invisible enemy making its way across the world. Those are the messages, and focussing on successes of action is extremely important.
Mr. Perkins: Last year we made an arrangement with a Toronto man, Joseph van Veen, who has HIV and has stayed healthy for 19 years. In fact, he participated in an Ironman triathlon in 2003. We invited him to ride his bicycle on a solidarity tour through Africa to meet with HIV organizations; and he did that. It was remarkable. Of course, there are major differences between how HIV is experienced in Canada and in Africa. He was more surprised by the similarities in terms of how it affects an individual who finds out they are positive. There are issues of stigma, of whether to disclose, of relations and of the kind of support that you need. He has been able to come back and tell his story to groups in Toronto and across Canada so that they can see that it is physically far away but it is also close enough to relate to, in more ways than we expect.
Senator Andreychuk: You mentioned Uganda, with which I am familiar. Setting aside governance issues, it was interesting that the president of Uganda, who is male, stood up and spoke to the issue of AIDS, and that had a great impact culturally on the ground. Other leaders in Africa have been less forthcoming.
Do you think there is a role for Canada to encourage the leaders in Africa to take ownership of this issue and address it? It seems to me that if they will not do that, the message will not be handled as well as it was handled in Uganda.
Ms. Ngolo: I definitely agree. We have a carrot-and-stick situation. There is the potential to influence their behaviour by telling them that this is what we want from them in order to partner with them. That applies not only to the political leaders but also to the religious leaders, who play an extremely strong role in influencing the behaviour of the people.
For instance, there are Poverty Reduction Strategy Papers, PRSPs, that address poverty reduction strategies, et cetera. In the same manner, each country should have a strategic framework to plan how they will address HIV/AIDS. This is not a popular comment when I make it to those that always advocate debt relief. I do not believe in unconditional debt relief because it should be tied to some progress. Once you have debt relief, you have to determine how it is to be utilized. You do not dip into someone's pocket to combat your corruption but rather you plan measurable and clear strategies to make progress in areas of education, health and other social responsibilities. Perhaps it is to be utilized for HIV/AIDS. Countries like Canada have championed many issues like land mines and conflict diamond schemes and so they have a big role to play in the international arena to entice other governments to help and to partner with them where it is necessary.
[Translation]
Senator De Bané: Ms. Gizenga Ngolo, you said that today this terrible disease is part of the warmonger's arsenal. It never occurred to me that things could go so far.
With regard to the greater question of development in Africa, as you know, a new NEPAD program has been implemented. One of the features of NEPAD is peer review; in other words, African countries must evaluate the governance of other African countries in order that the latter might benefit from international aid. On paper, this seems to be a good idea but, in practice, does this work or is it just wishful thinking?
Ms. Ngolo: As it happens, Partnership Africa Canada is now conducting a study on the progress of NEPAD with regard to the peer-review mechanism because four countries have already volunteered for the program and evaluations have been conducted in those four countries. We are awaiting the results.
What is the credibility of such a mechanism? Our first question is: Is there civilian participation? Who evaluates whom? If it is one government leader evaluating another, I don't think the mechanism can be meaningful. I believe its population, the country's civil society, its organizations, its unions and management, who should conduct the evaluation and decide whether or not the country's leaders have been performing satisfactorily.
There is also the question of human rights. Evaluation mechanisms must include human rights as one of the factors to be considered. In practical terms, when we see that Shari'a law is applied in Nigeria, this is a major violation of human rights; how could such a country justify those practices within a legitimate evaluation mechanism?
These are the questions we are asking. No results are yet available; they have not been made public. In cooperation with the African Union, we would like to assess where we stand with these four evaluations. We reserve judgement as to whether or not the mechanism is working. I think that an in-depth analysis is necessary, especially since there is no evaluation by the population and civil society; for the time being, they have no voice in the mechanism.
Ms. Bonin: With regard to this question, we are currently working hard with Zimbabwe. This is a case in point that illustrates the ambiguity of the peer review measure. South Africa is considered as the only country that can influence Zimbabwe's president, Mr. Robert Mugabe, but it does not.
The mere fact that the peer-review mechanism is contained in the NEPAD document, even if it is not fully utilized by governments in the region or the Southern African Development Community (SADC), allows the civil society in both Zimbabwe and South Africa to put pressure on local media and the international community by saying: Our leaders have committed to this review and to mutual supervision but they are not doing it; we are nevertheless witnessing human rights violations in Zimbabwe.
It is with this in mind, for example, that a trade union delegation from South Africa twice tried to visit Zimbabwe to look into human rights violations. Both times they were stopped at the border by Zimbabwean authorities. Upon their return home, they gave a press conference saying that they are compelled to carry out the work their government had committed itself to as part of NEPAD but on which it is failing to follow through.
Even though, on the surface, it appears that things are not working, that is not quite the case. The commitment is on paper, which allows civil society to publicly denounce those who do not honour their commitments.
[English]
The Chairman: We often talk about Zimbabwe but we never seem to talk about Zambia. Zambia is an interesting country with a background similar to that of Zimbabwe and it does not seem to be doing too well at the moment.
My question about AIDS is this: Is there a characteristic pattern to where AIDS is to be found? Africa in my mind is divided very much between Islamic, animist and Christian Africa, and between farmers and herdsmen on the plains, and people who live in the cities.
Is AIDS as prevalent in Islamic parts of Africa as it is in Christian Africa? Is it as prevalent in rural areas? Is there a distinction between the huge areas with herdsmen and subsistence farmers? Is there any characteristic to AIDS in these different and very important African environments?
Ms. Bonin: This will not be a very scientific answer but an experience-based one. I spent ten years living in southern Africa, where the pandemic is at its highest. During those years I lived also in Mozambique, where the Muslims live mostly in the north and the Christians mostly in the south. In Mozambique, there is no difference in the pandemic, because all the surrounding countries have a similar high rate of prevalence. There is much travelling and moving around, back and forth. It does not affect the incidence whether people are Muslim or Christian.
Also, in terms of the urban and rural divide, historically, when the pandemic started in southern Africa it was mostly documented and visible in urban areas or in concentrated populations such as in mining compounds. However, this was a long time ago. That was in the late 1980s. These people have since gone back to their families on weekends and holidays many times over the past two decades. Very quickly the rural communities become affected as well as the urban ones.
The Chairman: Is it to the same degree?
Ms. Bonin: People move. African people, by definition, in their own culture, even prior to colonization, and economic and industrial development that attracted people to cities, are people who move around. They move; they travel. They travel with their cattle. They travel to look for work. They travel to visit extended families. That is one of the key factors for the pandemic.
The Chairman: We have someone appearing from Nigeria tomorrow, a country that has 25 per cent of the population of sub-Saharan Africa. We can ask this tomorrow, of course, but is there a characteristic of AIDS in Nigeria? Does it occur throughout Nigeria to the same extent? Is it only in certain parts of Nigeria? This is a country with 125 million people.
Ms. Bonin: It is not the same everywhere, but I do not have the figures to document this. I asked the same question last week of my sister from the trade unions, the HIV/AIDS coordinator of the Nigerian Labour Congress. She said that in the bigger cities there is more prevalence than in the rural areas. I asked her whether the north, which is more Muslim, is less affected because it is more conservative. She says it may be penetrating more slowly but then once it hits it spreads more quickly because men have several wives, and when their husbands die they are given away to his brother. They infect the brother and the brother infects his other wives. It is as if the religion has acted as a barrier. It came in more slowly, but once it comes in it will go bang; it is exponential.
Ms. Ngolo: I just wanted to add that, indeed, the lines are becoming blurred between urban and rural areas. The lack of education in the rural areas, the lack of access to information, and the traditional culture where one is passed on to the next brother, et cetera, have actually very much exacerbated and accelerated the spread of HIV/AIDS. Originally the Muslim countries had a lower prevalence than Christian countries and in countries where both populations existed. Those lines are being blurred, too.
It is also true that many countries believe themselves to be very much clean of HIV/AIDS and therefore they do not have testing centres. The statistics they have look very low when you do not know the reality. Then there are countries that are in conflict or have just come out of conflict, and the whole displacement movement and refugee movement have blurred all the lines of where HIV/AIDS is prevalent or not.
[Translation]
Senator Prud'homme: The subject is probably neither the most exciting nor the most exhilarating. But, as you have said, it is the most important.
Senator Stollery touched on the religious aspect. When you face resistance, is it due mostly to politics or to religious beliefs? For example, certain religious leaders are sometimes completely against sex education.
Ms. Ngolo: Rather, I would say that the resistance is unconscious. They practice their religion and that sets up certain barriers. Inasmuch as the resistance is unintentional, contracting HIV/AIDS is also unintentional. The spread of the virus then takes on a life of its own. People listen to their leaders. Often, African religious leaders oppose the use of any methods of prevention.
Senator Prud'homme: That is exactly what I would like you to comment on.
Ms. Ngolo: They are against the use of prophylactics. Since the virus is spread unintentionally, we therefore cannot talk of preventive measures for HIV. If spreading the virus were a conscious act, it would be a different kettle of fish.
Ms. Bonin: A littler earlier, we talked about the roles played by each sex. Certain African countries have more traditional cultures than others. In some, the traditional male model is that of the promiscuous man. He will thus have many children born by many different mothers, even though the children might be neglected later.
Fathering many children, even if he can not care for or support all of them, proves that he is a ``real man,'' that he is virile, that he can do it.
Senator Prud'homme: And condoms are not used.
Ms. Bonin: If he uses condoms, he can not prove his virility because he wouldn't father as many children. It would not be so apparent that he is a real man.
Of course, there are more educated communities where the culture is different. That is where headway is being made and where some men manage to convince others that they need not father so many children to prove their virility.
It is important to depend upon those men who understand and demonstrate their virility in a different way so they can educate others. There are countries where traditions have been turned topsy-turvy by industrialization, the influx of Western values, immigration, migration and television. In other cases, it is not so simple and more effort will have to be invested.
[English]
Ms. Ngolo: I would like to bring to your attention the role of the UN and other peacekeeping forces. I am devastated by the fact that UN peacekeeping forces can play such a negative role in violence against women, and in spreading HIV/AIDS. I was born in the Democratic Republic of Congo. In Partnership Africa Canada, I was hired to cover Angola, but they discovered I was Congolese so they gave me that as well.
In some of my trips to the Congo, where the United Nations peacekeeping forces, the MONUC, are staying at the Intercontinental Hotel, the sexual activity is visible in the street with minors, et cetera. After observing that and counselling the young, who are practically children, we wrote a letter to Kofi Annan about addressing and sanctioning these forces. Among them are Canadians, I have to tell you. I have met them; I have sat and talked to them and so on.
If there is one message I want to give to the Government of Canada it is, make sure that participants in UN peacekeeping forces are educated on HIV/AIDS and do not take part in sexual exploitation in any form just because it is easy or because people are poor and they are trading sex for food. It is devastating to see that kind of exploitation happening.
The Chairman: On behalf of everyone, I want to thank our guests. It has been interesting. We have to continue to pursue this subject, obviously.
I would like to remind my colleagues that tomorrow, when the Senate adjourns, the High Commissioner of Nigeria will appear before us.
The committee adjourned.