Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Foreign Affairs
Issue 8 - Evidence - Meeting of February 23, 2005
OTTAWA, Wednesday, February 23, 2005
The Standing Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs met this day at 4:04 p.m. to examine the development and security challenges facing Africa; the response of the international community to enhance that continent's development and political stability; and Canadian foreign policy as it relates to Africa.
Senator Peter A. Stollery (Chairman) in the Chair.
[English]
The Chairman: Honourable senators, we are continuing with our special study on Africa, as ordered by the Senate on December 8. Yesterday, we had as our theme the first meeting on the AIDS pandemic. Today, we have the pleasure of receiving His Excellency, Olufemi Oyewale George, High Commissioner, Federal Republic of Nigeria. We welcome him and his staff to the Senate of Canada.
The goal of today's meeting is an attempt to better understand the complexities of Nigeria, a significant and diverse country, home of about 25 per cent of the population of sub-Saharan Africa. We are delighted, Excellency, that you have accepted our invitation to appear before us today. I know that you are eager to give us an overview of your country, the challenges it faces, as well as the Nigerian's efforts in maintaining security and stability in Africa. I now give you the floor.
His Excellency Olufemi Oyewale George, High Commissioner, High Commission for the Federal Republic of Nigeria: Honourable senators, ladies and gentlemen, it gives me great honour and privilege to appear before this distinguished committee. Having received firm assurances that these proceedings will not constitute a hearing on Nigeria but rather a contribution to Canada's African study, I plan to proceed by giving a brief overview of the political and economic situation in Nigeria. This is intended to provide a background to a proper understanding of Nigeria's role in the West African sub-region, Africa and the world at large.
As you may know, Nigeria obtained independence from Great Britain on October 1, 1960, from which it inherited a parliamentary democracy of the Westminster model. The system was operated from 1960 to January 1966, when it was violently terminated by the first military coup d'état in the country. This unfortunate development unleashed a series of events, including a counter-coup in July 1966 and a 30-month bloody civil war that ended with the defeat of Biafra's secession in 1970. The military regime that successfully prosecuted the civil war under the leadership of General Yakubu Gowon was itself overthrown in July 1975, before democratic rule was briefly restored in 1979. There followed a succession of pernicious military regimes between 1983 and 1998, until the present democratic rule was finally restored on May 29, 1999, under the American-style presidential system of government. This ushered in the election of President Obasanjo for his first term in office, and he was re-elected in April 2003 for a second and final term.
Starting off with four and later five regions between 1960 and 1966, Nigeria was further subdivided, first into 12 states in 1967, and finally into the present 36-state structure and the Federal Capital Territory of Abuja that was established in 1996. The 36 states are akin to the 10 provinces of Canada.
Nigeria's economy, which was based on agriculture from independence to the mid-1970s, was transformed into an oil-based, monocultural economy, as oil became the mainstay of Nigeria's economy, accounting for 25 per cent of GDP, 70 per cent of government revenue, and 90 per cent of foreign exchange earnings. It currently has a per capita income at a mere $300.
Challenges of nation-building. Nigeria has an estimated population of 126 million, most of them living in the rural areas. The urban centres, such as Lagos, Ibadan, Enugu, Port Harcourt, Kano and Kaduna, continue to serve as magnets for rural-urban migration, with tremendous pressures on basic infrastructures and social services. The fact that one in four Africans is a Nigerian also has immense implications for Nigeria's foreign policy in which the promotion of the dignity and welfare of the Black race everywhere is a cardinal principle.
The country has the largest and well educated labour force, which makes her Africa's leading cultural and creative power. Like Canada, its unity is anchored in its diversity. It is home to over 250 ethnic groups, most of them adherents of Islam and Christianity, and over 300 distinct language groups and small dialects. It has a land area of 923,768 square kilometres that stretches from the Atlantic Ocean, going through the tropical rain forest in the south, to the Savannah belt in the middle and extending to the edge of the Sahara Desert in the north.
Welding together such diverse peoples and forging the Nigerian nation out of them has been the greatest challenge facing successive Nigerian governments, particularly since independence. Even though the country has witnessed sporadic outbreaks of violence on account of religious and ethnic differences, it has continued to stay united. This has been made possible by governments' creative efforts at promoting unity in diversity, through the adoption of a series of measures such as the federal system of government with three tiers and a system of democratically elected local governments that is constitutionally guaranteed and supported by the federal government. These are unique to Nigeria's federal system.
The federal character principle is yet another such measure, which guarantees that, for any Nigerian to be elected president, for instance, he or she must not only win the highest number of votes cast in the presidential election, but must also win not less than one quarter of the votes cast in at least two thirds of all the states of the federation and the federal capital territory. This is described in section 133 of the 1999 constitution. The principle also enjoins the federal, state and local governments to ensure that there is no preponderance of one ethnic group in any government agency or department in such a manner that all diverse groups are fairly represented in government appointments.
Distinguished members can understand in part the complexities of the situation.
There had been agitation for the control of resources by state governments in whose territory the bulk of federal government revenue from oil is derived. This is particularly resonant in the Niger Delta area, where the combined problems of environmental degradation and poverty had fuelled such agitation, sometimes to violent levels. In addition, there have been strident calls for devolution of powers to the states and local governments.
The introduction of Shar'iah law in some northern states of the federation in 2000 has also brought additional fissures to the polity, even though Shar'iah has always been part and parcel of the Nigerian political experience from colonial times. A reassuring experience, however, is that the relevant courts in Nigeria had upheld the rule of law and the fundamental rights of the citizens convicted by the Shar'iah courts at the lower levels by ensuring that the capital punishments handed down under controversial circumstances are upturned.
[Translation]
Nigerian experience in nation-building has therefore been a distinctly unique one. However, it is this distinctness that creates the most challenges, which the Government is doing its utmost to tackle. For instance, in response to the popular yearnings of Nigerians for a national dialogue on the future of Nigeria, the federal government recently convened a National Political Reform Conference which has been meeting in Abuja since February 21, 2005.
The objective of the conference is to provide a platform for Nigerians from all walks of life to voice their views and concerns as regards governance structures in Nigeria, the review of the 1999 Constitution, the electoral system, party politics, the relationship between the federal government, states and local governments and the role of civil society in the political process.
[English]
The conference has an open agenda, except that the unity of the country and the federal system must be preserved. The overarching objective of convening this important conference is to ensure that Nigeria is strengthened as a modern federal state that is able to meet the needs of its people and is properly positioned to continue to play an active and respectable role, not just in the West African sub-region, but also in Africa and the world.
In terms of good governance, the problem of corruption, transparency and accountability in government has been further aggravated by weak institutions and their low capacity for enforcement of set rules and regulations. The Independent Corrupt Practices Commission and the Economic and Finance Crimes Commission, which are the lead agencies in this regard, are doing their best under the most difficult circumstances to tackle a problem whose roots lie deep in the many years of military despotism and an entrenched system of patronage. In addition to the imperative need for attitudinal changes on the part of Nigerians, government realizes the need for these institutions to be strengthened, for it is only by so doing that their overall impact can be felt across the country. There is, however, now a greater awareness among Nigerians about the evils of corruption and its negative impact on resource utilization for the common good.
I will now focus on poverty eradication and economic development. One of the fundamental challenges facing the Nigerian government in the economic realm is the transformation of the Nigerian economy from its heavy dependence on oil to an industrial economy that forges the necessary linkages between agriculture, industry and manufacturing. Such a formation holds the key to employment generation, poverty eradication and the enhancement of the quality of life of the people in the near and long terms.
While government remains the prime mover of the economy, it has committed itself to an ambitious program of privatization of all sectors, including deregulation of the oil sector and a renewed drive for foreign investments in the economy. There lies the challenge for Canada's private entrepreneurs to take full advantage of the ongoing programs of privatization and diversification into agriculture, the solid minerals, telecommunications, information technology, and other service sectors.
To meet the challenge of poverty eradication and the promotion of rapid economic development, government has adopted a new economic policy framework, the National Economic Empowerment and Development Strategy — NEEDS — as a comprehensive and coherent economic reform agenda and a sectoral response to the challenges. Specifically, the program aims at a GDP growth rate of 7 per cent per annum as against the current rate of 3.5 per cent, compared with a population growth rate of 2.8 per cent. Yet, the economy needs to grow at a minimum rate of 5 per cent GDP and an annual investment of 30 per cent of GDP as against the current level of 18 per cent.
NEEDS also aims at reducing government's budget deficit, now at 4.7 per cent, to no more than 2.5 per cent of GDP, while substantially reducing the country's external debt now estimated at $34 billion. Nigeria's external debt remains a major obstacle to economic growth and poverty eradication as the government commits the sum of $1.7 billion per annum to its debt-service obligations, which is four times the share of annual budgetary allocations to health and education.
However, thanks to NEEDS, we have started to turn the corner in economic reform and economic management. For the first time in decades, particularly in 2004, we have met or surpassed economic targets. The growth rate in 2004 was over 6 per cent, better than the targeted 5 per cent. The federal fiscal deficit/GDP ratio on a cash basis was only 1.9 per cent as against the targeted 3 per cent. The inflation rate was down to 9.5 per cent in December 2004. Also, the stock of reserves rose from U.S. $3.7 billion in 1999 to U.S. $18.4 billion as of January 31, 2005.
The control of HIV/AIDS, malaria and other communicable and child-killer diseases such as polio is another challenge facing the country. Though the rate of infection of HIV/AIDS is generally underreported, it is estimated that about 3.5 million Nigerians are currently living with HIV/AIDS. Government efforts are aimed at facilitating access to medical services, especially anti-retroviral drugs — and it includes much information. In this regard, the legislation currently before distinguished senators, which seeks to make available generic drugs for HIV/AIDS victims in developing countries in Africa, is of major interest to my country.
Nigeria's policy on the environment is anchored on environmental renewal and development initiatives with the primary objectives of safeguarding the environment. A separate ministry of the environment has been established to design, coordinate and implement, in partnership with non-governmental organizations, civil society groups, communities and other stakeholders, an environmental program that guarantees long-term sustainability. There is also the Niger Delta Development Commission, which is charged with the responsibility of addressing the development and environmental challenges of the oil-rich Niger Delta region of Nigeria, which is currently devastated by oil and gas exploration and flaring. Indeed, government has introduced measures to reduce gas flaring by ensuring increased processing through the Liquefied Natural Gas Project — LNGP — and increased usage of natural gas as well as the exportation of gas through the West African Gas Pipeline Project. Above all, Nigeria is committed to the implementation of the Convention on Climate Change and Biodiversity, and the Kyoto Protocol, among other environmentally sound policies.
[Translation]
Nigeria's role in West Africa is predicated on its commitments to good neighbourliness, the maintenance of peace and stability as well as regional economic integration. Nigeria has never sought to bully its neighbours or impose its will on them. Rather, she continues to promote excellent relations with all her immediate neighbours — Benin, Niger, Chad, Cameroon and even Sao Tome and Principe as well as Equatorial Guinea, while also offering various forms of assistance to them. The Technical Aids Corps scheme, similar to the Canada Corps, is a program of technical cooperation and assistance to African, Caribbean and the Pacific countries in which Nigerian professionals are deployed to these nations on a voluntary basis.
[English]
The objectives of maintaining peaceful relations with our immediate neighbours are being pursued through regular consultations and the execution of cross-border infrastructure, such as electricity, roads and gas. Appropriate mechanisms, such as the Nigeria-Niger Joint Commission, the Lake Chad Basin Development Commission and the Quadripartite Commission between Nigeria, Togo, Ghana and Benin Republic have been established for the promotion of these objectives. In the case of Cameroon, the dispute over the land and maritime boundaries, especially the contentious Bakassi peninsula, is being resolved following the judgment given by the International Court of Justice in The Hague in 2002.
Mr. Chairman, I have the privilege of serving on the United Nations Mixed Commission on the ICJ judgment, and I can say, without fear of contradiction, that Nigeria is fully committed to the implement of the judgment. What seems to have delayed the formal handover of the peninsular to Cameroon are some technical hitches, including the legal challenge against the federal government by the indigenes of the area as well as the constitutional implications of any handover since the Bakassi Local Government is listed in the first schedule of the constitution. As a matter of fact, substantial areas of land in the Lake Chad region have already been exchanged between the two countries. The demarcation of the entire land boundary is proceeding satisfactorily in line with the ICJ judgment.
Within the West African sub-region, Nigeria played a pivotal role in the establishment of the Economic Community of West African States — ECOWAS — which is aimed at the promotion of regional integration, peace, prosperity and security in the area. Nigeria recognizes that peace and stability are essential preconditions for the promotion of economic integration and that her national interest in West Africa can best be promoted in an atmosphere of peace and security. This is why it joined efforts with other member states of ECOWAS to intervene in the Liberian conflict in 1992, which led to the restoration of peace and stability in that war-ravaged country. These considerations, coupled with sheer altruism and the desire to care and share, informed Nigeria's interventions at various times in the last decade in Sierra Leone, Guinea Bissau and Sao Tome and Principe, which led to the restoration of the democratically elected governments after the military takeovers in those countries. It is not always remembered that Nigeria expended about U.S $10 billion in Liberia and Sierra Leone, not to mention the members of the Nigerian Armed Forces who paid the supreme sacrifice in the cause of peace in these countries.
In response to the recent unconstitutional takeover of power by the son of the late President of Togo, Gnassingbe Eyedema, Nigeria, in its capacity as the chairman of the African Union, and in pursuit of its commitment to the promotion of democracy and the rule of law, has been in the forefront of the campaign for the restoration of constitutional legality to that country. Indeed, the ECOWAS Protocol on Unconstitutional Change of Government, which was adopted in July 2000, was at the behest of Nigeria. This has provided the basis for the rejection of unconstitutional changes of governments in the member states of the regional organization. We also believe that this is a way of ensuring Nigeria's democratic experience.
I will now turn to Nigeria's role in Africa and the world. The sheer size of Nigeria's population and resource endowments bestow on it a major role in African affairs, which successive Nigerian governments have recognized since independence. Shortly after her independence, Nigeria participated in the UN peacekeeping operations in the Congo and Tanganyika, now Tanzania. It played a moderating and conciliatory role in the establishment of the Organization of African Unity — OAU — at the time that the continent was divided along ideological lines, in the early 1960s. Nigeria's concrete expression of a functionalist and gradualist approach to integration has remained the guiding principle for African states as they consult with Nigeria in the promotion of regional integration at sub-regional and continental levels.
Just as Nigeria was preoccupied, from the independence period to the early 1990s, with the total liberation of Africa from the vestiges of colonial domination and the abhorrent system of apartheid, it remains today deeply committed to conflict prevention, management and resolution in Africa. This is exemplified by her engagements in both interstate and intrastate conflicts, such as those in Chad, Western Sahara, Sudan, the DRC, Burundi, Zimbabwe, and Ethiopia- Eritrea, to mention a few.
In response to the changes in the international environment, the domestic situation in Africa and the challenges of economic development on the continent, Nigeria took the lead in the transformation of the Organization of African Unity to the African Union in 2000. To build the necessary synergy between the challenge of economic development, conflict prevention, management and resolution in Africa in a holistic manner, Nigeria consulted with a few like- minded African countries to develop the New Partnership for Africa's Development, NEPAD, in 2001. Nigeria is pleased that all development cooperation and efforts in Africa are now anchored on this program of the African Union.
At this juncture, allow me, honourable senators, to call on Canada and the G8 partners to demonstrate greater commitment to the implementation of the G8 Action Plan on Africa, which was adopted at the G8-NEPAD Summit in Kananaskis, Alberta, in July 2002 under Canada's presidency of the group. This is a fresh challenge to Canada. Apart from the investment, promotion, market access, debt relief and increase in resource flows, especially ODA, one important area in which assistance is needed is the African Peer Review Mechanism of the NEPAD. So far, about two dozen African countries, including my own, have subscribed to this system of voluntary self-assessment and exchange of best practices in good political and economic governance.
I will now turn to Nigeria-Canada relations. Bilateral relations between Nigeria and Canada, established in 1960, are cordial and have grown out of years of mutual respect, cooperation and historical association to the Commonwealth. Nigeria and Canada have always enjoyed excellent relations. Bilateral cooperation between the two countries has also flourished in other spheres, such as trade, investment, technical cooperation, culture, and people-to- people contacts.
The Canadian International Development Agency, CIDA, continues to play a critical role in this process, especially in the areas of health care delivery, agriculture and environment. I believe that the agency can do more in terms of the quantum and quality of aid delivery to Nigeria, as Canada seeks to meet the UN target of 0.7 per cent of GDP for ODA.
The excellent relations were disrupted from 1995 to 1998, however, arising from Canada's displeasure with the political developments in Nigeria at the time. Full diplomatic relations were restored in 1998, with the exchange of high commissioners in 1999, following the restoration of democratic rule in May of that year. Nigeria recognizes the significant role played by Canada in mobilizing and sustaining international support for this process.
Even though our bilateral relations received a boost with the exchange of high-profile visits between the two countries between 1999 and 2002, I am, however, concerned that these excellent political relations have not yet translated into great dividends in the economic sphere. Bilateral trade is low in volume and variety, and so is Canadian investment in the Nigerian economy. This, I believe, is another challenge to Canada-Nigeria relations.
At the social level, Nigerians are experiencing considerable difficulties in obtaining Canadian entry visas. Regrettably, my mission's prompt issuance of visas to Canadians is not being reciprocated. The situation is not helped by the relocation to Accra, Ghana, of the processing of immigrant visas to Nigerians, rather than the retention of this service in Lagos. I have made my concerns on these matters known to the Department of Foreign Affairs, but no improvement seems to have taken place so far.
Cultural exhibitions and youth exchange programs are rare and far between, not to mention the dwindling opportunities for scholarship and training for Nigerian students in Canada. This situation must change if closer people-to-people contacts are to be facilitated and bilateral relations brought to full normality.
One major obstacle to the promotion of closer economic cooperation, and which is also of serious concern to me, is the attitude of the Export Development Canada, EDC, in refusing to grant the usual insurance coverage to Canadian companies wishing to do business in Nigeria. The ostensible reason is Nigeria's track record of economic reforms and debt payment obligations, which the Crown corporation does not consider flattering. This seemingly political position of the EDC must change, in appreciation of the tremendous efforts of the Nigerian government in implementing fundamental economic reforms that have been adjudged credible by the IMF and the World Bank. Moreover, Nigeria has not failed to meet its debt-repayment obligations to its creditors. In my view, Canada should find it reassuring that Nigeria has no debt obligation to her.
Mr. Chairman, honourable senators, one way in which Nigeria-Canada's relations can be put on a higher pedestal is the creation of a Nigerian parliamentary group, both in the Senate and the House of Commons. Such a group of friends of Nigeria will assist my mission and the country in ensuring that issues of interest to both countries are put on the front burner of government at all times.
I now turn to the subject of Nigeria and the world. Nigeria continues to make its modest contributions to the promotion of international peace and security through its membership in the United Nations, its specialized agencies and other international organizations such as the Commonwealth. Like Canada, Nigeria's record of international peacekeeping is well-known, as she has never hesitated to send troops to various troubled spots in the world, as far- flung as East Timor, the former Yugoslavia and in other places outside Africa.
Given its huge resource endowments, which should provide an enduring basis for an enhanced capacity to continue to contribute significantly to the maintenance of international peace and security, and to the other purposes of the United Nations, Nigeria's claim to the permanent membership of the United Nations Security Council representing Africa is unassailable.
In conclusion, Mr. Chairman and honourable senators, many observers of the Nigerian scene do not often take into consideration that the country has only been in existence as an independent nation for only four and a half decades, when compared to countries like Canada. While this is not an excuse for the country's missteps, the present difficulties and challenges, the complexities of the country, as well as the limited experience of democratic governance, must always be appreciated.
[Translation]
Nigeria looks forward with hope for a brighter future as it takes measures to reconcile itself with its own history while also confronting the challenges of the present. In grappling with the present, the government seeks to correct the mistakes of the past, so that the present and indeed the future can be meaningful and worthwhile. Our goal is to ensure that a better future is bequeathed to the coming generations of Nigerians.
[English]
In addressing the present challenges of unity and the promotion of rapid economic development for all Nigerians, the reform processes call for fundamental adjustments of our ways of doing things, the way we govern ourselves, as well as the way we run our lives as Nigerians. That is the vision and the mission of the present administration of President Obasanjo. Canada has proved itself a great friend of Nigeria in the past. I urge this distinguished committee to ensure that such support is increased to complement the efforts of government in the days that lie ahead. That is the only way that Nigeria's present challenges can be surmounted and its unity solidified so that the country could be better positioned to play an even greater role in promoting regional peace and security, while making increased contributions to global prosperity as well.
Thank you, honourable senators.
Senator Andreychuk: Perhaps I should disclose my conflict on the record. His Excellency and I served together. I have great respect for him and admire his professional conduct in the diplomatic corps, and particularly his commitment to Nigeria. Our association has been long-standing.
I simply wish to welcome you to this committee and hope that your service here continues in the same fashion as it has in the past.
You have covered so many areas. However, I should like you to expand on a couple of things for me. Nigeria is, when we look at Africa, one of the most important countries. Perhaps Canadians know about South Africa and the apartheid. From time to time, we know about AIDS and other issues. However, when one comes to talk at the governmental level, the diplomatic level, at the foreign policy level, Nigeria has to be factored in when we talk about African policies.
Nigeria is facing some very interesting internal dynamics. Africa is facing some difficult challenges, so I would like to touch on both of them. One is that Nigeria was very forceful in the initiative of NEPAD, where it was African leaders who developed how they would govern Africa and how they would be accountable to their own citizens and to the broader international world. One of the mechanisms is the peer evaluation.
There is some discussion in Africa as to whether this peer evaluation should only go to economic issues or whether the peer evaluation should touch political, economic and other — in a broad sense — issues, and that the leaders of Africa really contemplated on peer support, peer influence and peer accountability as being the key to the success of Africa. In that, Nigeria is very important.
There have been from time to time varying perceptions of how Nigeria interprets the peer evaluation. I am interested in knowing how you see it and how that in turn will influence good dynamics in Africa.
Mr. George: I have had the fortunate luck of having been closely involved with the development of NEPAD, and perhaps a lot of people might not understand the beginnings of NEPAD. A few of the leaders were asked by other countries what do you want us to do for you. That was how NEPAD came about.
It was strictly developed by Africans, because we have had all this previous experience with all sorts of programs that have been imposed more or less from our side. They never worked.
At the same time, however, because of the new orientation, which most of these leaders now have, they know they cannot continue to succeed if things are not done in the proper way. Some minimum standards must be adhered to. That was how the issue of the peer review mechanism came in.
The peer review mechanism is supposed to be all-encompassing so that it not only for economic, political or social. It is all-encompassing. In deference to the unique African nature, it is supposed to be voluntary. You are not going to be forced to adhere to it, but then you will know the disadvantages if you do not adhere to it because the requirement is that you will virtually be excluded from most of the things that will come out of the development programs coming out of NEPAD.
Again, it is also a way of ensuring that those who have the capacity, those who have the will, can pull along those who might be lagging behind or those who might not be encouraged, per se. However, when they see that those who have fully subscribed to this review mechanism are getting the assistance and the support that is expected, that might encourage them to come along. That is the situation for now.
I do not envisage a situation whereby any particular African country will be forced. It will have to do that on its own, in the hope that by the time it sees the rewards — and that is why I want to again appeal to the G8 program as adopted — Canada will be able to give that support. That is what I believe will encourage the others to continue to stay the course in the NEPAD programs, as well as the peer review mechanism that is a collateral to that program.
Senator Andreychuk: I was fortunate to be part of a Canadian delegation that was part of a seminar between parliaments. One of the issues that came up was, of course, that some of the states are oil rich, others are not, and that the federal government, of course, is to have a role in the resource industry. On the ground, it does not always work out that way, that the governors certainly have more say than perhaps in the constitution.
It is important that the members here know how that complex system of resource allocation and who controls the resources and what services are demanded from what part of the government, the federal-provincial, because of course that is what preoccupies us in Canada often. I believe it is not understood how complex the issue is on the ground in Nigeria.
Mr. George: I am happy that you have some insight into it. One of the things that attracted my attention is how Canada is able to deal with what we call resource control and fiscal allocation of resources.
Yes, by constitution in Nigeria, the land belongs to the federal government. Whether it is for agriculture or for mineral exploitation, the land is vested in the federal government, but that power is devolved to the local government. Technically, whatever comes out of that, except if it is devolved, belongs to the federal government. That is what the constitution says.
Again, having realized that these are some of the reasons the various problems have occurred, the government has not shied away from tackling the matter appropriately. In fact, that is one of the reasons why at the current national conference that is one of the issues that will be tackled, because people from various walks of life in Nigeria will now say what exactly they want and what the federation should be doing in that regard.
For now, yes, the federal government takes all the revenue, but there is a formula for sharing this revenue. The federal government's authority will only end when it has given that share to a particular state.
One of the unique things that was introduced in the 1999 constitution was local governments, which are now recognized as a third tier of government. In fact, they are fully recognized and are adequately protected in the constitution.
It used to be that the allocation was given to the states and it was up to the states to pass the allocation on to the local government. That has not been done for the last three or four years. The federal government now allocates directly to the local governments. The state governments have their own allocations from which they carry out their activities.
I cannot predict what the next national conference will come up with, but I have no doubt that, with developments and a new realization, this is one area that is creating a lot of problems between the centre and the various units. However, in the usual manner in which Nigerians have always risen to deal with their problems, that too will be taken care of.
Senator Andreychuk: When we travelled, we were interested to learn that all of parliament's resources came from the president's office. We had interesting discussions about how you can exercise oversight of the executive if all your resources come from the president's office. Part of the new reorganization and democracy in Nigeria focuses on how to work that out and how to get people to understand the independence of parliament.
The Chairman: Nigeria is a large country with so many complexities. Do you now have 36 states?
Mr. George: Yes.
The Chairman: I remember when Nigeria became independent. Since then, there have been ups and downs. Is part of the problem of military takeovers and civilian elected governments due to resource allocation? I know this is not a simple question; I quite appreciate that. Are the military takeovers and then the civilian governments exacerbated by what we in Canada think of as equalization?
In Canada, we operate on a system of equalization payments, the general theory being that we have national standards across the country. I am from Toronto in Ontario. Several million people live there and we are a big economic engine for the country, as are other parts of the country, but we think in terms of national standards. Wherever you live in Canada, the standards should, generally speaking, be the same.
In Nigeria, the oil resource in particular is basically in one area. Has this exacerbated problems of governance?
Mr. George: You have to look back in history to be able to properly understand the present situation. I will first answer your initial question. It is not a question of resource allocation.
The Chairman: I meant money.
Mr. George: That is not what was responsible for the coups or the military regimes; absolutely not. Those resulted from the inadequacies that the colonial authority bequeathed to the country. If you read the colonial history properly, you will understand what has gone wrong. The colonial administration was strictly meant to facilitate the economy of the colonial power. There were quite a lot of things left undone. With independence, people already had ideas of how we would take care of ourselves. However, wishes do not always coincide with reality.
Shortly after independence, politicians could not deliver on some of the promises they had made. That, coupled with various new-found tendencies, was the genesis of the first military regime. What is happening today are more of the challenges of democracy in Nigeria.
During the military regime, we never had that, because it was simply not possible. We are now seeing outbursts of the pent-up feelings of the people who could do nothing during the military regime. The federal government was the beginning and the end of everything. Whatever it said was the rule. There was no question of democratic principles. The federal government decided what was best for everyone in the country. We have now returned to a democratic disposition. You are free. You can say whatever you want.
As I said, this is being tackled with all seriousness. Unfortunately, only the negatives are reported. I do not shy away from saying that there are problems, but the problems are not always as reported. In fact, shortly before I left Nigeria, some of my colleagues asked me about things that they had read were happening that were not in fact happening.
I have every reason to believe that Canada's representatives will report accurately what happens rather than the views of those who want to make news.
The Chairman: I myself am aware that Nigeria has played an important role in peacekeeping forces for some time, regardless of what government was in power. At least, I am not aware that it coincided with a particular regime. Nigeria has quite a long history in peacekeeping, and in many other areas.
Although I am sure it is hard to say exactly, what percentage of Nigerians do you estimate work in subsistence agriculture?
Mr. George: About 70 per cent of the population depend on subsistence agriculture.
Senator Corbin: Your Excellency, I would like to have a discussion with you on Nigeria's claim for permanent membership in the United Nations Security Council, representing Africa. Currently, no African state sits on the UN Security Council.
Mr. George: That is correct.
Senator Corbin: You say that your claim to a seat on that council is unassailable. Would you elaborate?
Mr. George: I am sure you know the background to this, arising from the call for UN reform. These are some of the things that have been mentioned. Africa has said that the situation is such that only a few hold the veto in the UN Security Council. That does not make a proper democracy in the view of Africa. That is why we believe there must be an expansion to include each geographical region in the world.
We do not know the number of seats that might be given to Africa, but it is our belief, because of our track record vis-à-vis our contributions to international peace and security over the years, that we are imminently qualified for that position.
Senator Corbin: What kind of backing would you have from other African states?
Mr. George: Nigeria definitely will have that backing. The entire ECOWAS will be rooting for Nigeria, even in the south.
Senator Corbin: Have you approached Canada for support?
Mr. George: We would be jumping the gun if we were to do that at this time.
Senator Corbin: What do you mean by that?
Mr. George: It is not yet clear — the 15-member panel that has just been set up is still meeting. We have only just preparing ourselves for the race, if and when it becomes necessary.
Honourable senator, I think I know the position of Canada vis-à-vis this issue of the expansion of the UN Security Council.
Senator Corbin: Are you telling me that you can count on Canada?
Mr. George: We will definitely count on Canada, but I know the position of Canada in this matter. Nigeria and Canada have always been friends and have always depended on each other in so many issues. We regard Canada as a natural in this matter.
Senator Corbin: Could I be so bold as to ask you to explain or describe to us the tensions in the oil-producing areas of Nigeria? After all, they do make national and international news from time to time. I would like the committee to have a better understanding of what is at stake. This is a difficult problem, but I would like to have a better understanding.
Mr. George: Distinguished senator, I already referred to that particularly, and I did tell you what happened. It was the outburst of a pent-up feeling. There is a great deal of poverty. The oil companies come in, do what they want, and they go away. The people feel that that is not right. That is exactly what is happening. During the military regime, the people knew there was nothing they could do because the companies had the protection of the government.
Senator Corbin: The current government is bound by deals made during the military regime.
Mr. George: No deals were made.
Senator Corbin: Well, the military regime was running Nigeria, so licenses for exploration were made with someone.
Mr. George: I am sorry; I did not understand. Definitely, those licenses cannot be revoked, and they will not be revoked. We are not talking about the licensing or the oppression of those oil fields. Rather, there is discontent with the oil companies that come in without the appropriate standards and leave behind many oil spills and degradation of the fishing areas without making efforts to correct their errors. That is what people are fighting against.
Senator Corbin: Cannot the government force the oil companies to clean things up?
Mr. George: That is happening now. By next year, no oil company will be allowed to undertake any gas flaring. They have been given the five-year moratorium in the last four years.
I should not say this now but, if necessary, the companies will face hefty penalties.
Senator Robichaud: Your Excellency, if you prefer, I could put the question in English, although your French is very good. You said that the government has committed itself to a vast program of privatization and that there lies the challenge for Canadian entrepreneurs to come in and do business. Do I understand correctly that this is not happening to the extent that you would like it to happen?
Mr. George: Yes.
Senator Robichaud: Why is that?
Mr. George: I alluded to the reasons. Part of it is the fact that any Canadian company that wants to do business there must have insurance coverage from the Economic Development Corporation, but the EDC, for one reason or another, does not provide insurance coverage. I do not know the reason.
Senator Robichaud: I am sure you have had discussions with those people to make the point and thereby facilitate the coming of Canadian entrepreneurs to Nigeria.
Mr. George: Yes, distinguished senator, we have done that, and we have taken due note of that. If I might say it openly here, some of the reasons that have been advanced to me I find unbelievable. Because the Americans have issued such and such a report, therefore we must toe that line. That is the challenge. Send your people there to conduct your own investigation. The IMF and the World Bank have given a clean bill of health and have supported the reform programs, as I said in my statement. In the last four or five years, we have regularly paid our debt to the various companies. In fact, that is part of the problems that government faces. Annually, $1.7 billion is devoted to payment of our debt, which is four times what is devoted to health care or education. That is why we try, as much as possible, to say, ``Look, we do not want crumbs; we do not want aid per se, just for the sake of aid.'' We would prefer economic development and trade investment so the issues can be taken care of appropriately. Despite the level of our own economic development, we have not shied away from even helping those who are in a worse situation than us in Nigeria. That is another challenge which we have faced in my country.
Senator Robichaud: In what sector of your economy could Canada play a role that would be the most helpful?
Mr. George: I will proffer three or four main key sectors at this point: oil and gas, agriculture, telecommunications and IT, as well as the solid mineral section, because there are quite a lot of solid minerals. In fact, we have been trying to get Canadian companies interested in going in and exploring the solid minerals sector. The blockage is what I have mentioned.
Senator Robichaud: Have you seen any progress to making these people understand?
Mr. George: As I have said, EDC has been asked to go there and find out for itself. Maybe by the time it comes back, if it takes up that invitation, it might be able to come with a different idea.
The Chairman: I have one brief factual question. What is the debt-to-GDP ratio in Nigeria? Does anybody have that? You say you are paying all this money, and I have noted that, four times what you are paying on education and health.
Mr. George: Annual budget for education.
The Chairman: What is the debt to GDP in Nigeria? Do you have any idea?
Mr. George: My colleagues are telling me our debt is almost equal to the GDP.
The Chairman: So it is about 100 per cent. The GDP is about 100 per cent of your debt at this point, and you are obviously trying to get that down, which is what everyone else is trying to do.
Mr. George: Exactly.
Senator Downe: I have a question on current assistance, following up from the question asked by my colleague. CIDA is involved in Nigeria, but what other assistance are you currently receiving from Canada, if any?
Mr. George: Apart from CIDA?
Senator Downe: Apart from CIDA.
Mr. George: None, to my knowledge.
Senator Downe: What is CIDA doing in your country?
Mr. George: What do I foresee them doing, or what are they doing now?
Senator Downe: What are they doing now?
Mr. George: They are involved in health care programs, health delivery programs, eradication of polio, some HIV- education programs. They have also been involved a little bit in capacity-building. The other day I got requests for visas for some military men, for ECOWAS, which is based in Nigeria, as part of the peacekeeping or peace-building capacity. They are in those kinds of things.
Senator Downe: What would you like to see them doing?
Mr. George: Beyond what they are doing now, let me talk about the issue of maintenance of peace and security on the continent, particularly within our own sub-region. I did refer to the fact that we spent $10 billion of our own money in Liberia, which a lot of people do not understand. When I say this to most people, they say, ``It is just not possible that you spend that kind of money and yet you have your own problems.'' Yes, but that is our own foreign policy status. Having been involved and associated with that policy and the implementation of that policy, it was painful for me to hear our so-called friends say that Nigeria was a member of the Liberian crisis, which was completely off the track. Like I said, that is for people who want to sell their views and have their own ideas. We carried that burden without assistance from the international community.
In ECOWAS, we have this mechanism for taking care of such issues, and this was developed with Nigeria at the forefront, which is ECOMAC. Beyond the instrumentality of ECOMAC, we put in what we have called advance- warning systems in four centres within West Africa. The community can learn well ahead. It can start looking at the facts and figures coming in and then extrapolate that if these matters are not quickly addressed in this country, there is a capacity that, in the next few years, it will develop into a crisis situation. That is the kind of capacity-building we are doing.
There is also an additional mechanism, which is pre-positioning logistics in two centres within the sub-region as well, so that when it eventually becomes necessary for intervention by the community, it is not going to mean that Nigeria is going start airlifting its resources or its material from Lagos or from some far off place. We are supposed to have centres where some of these things will be. That is one area where Canada can help — donate some equipment to the use of ECOWAS.
I will tell you one interesting thing. When it came to deploying troops to the Ivory Coast, the Benin Republic could not, for its own logistic reasons, deploy — it had the men, which it offered to the community. However, in terms Benin's deployment, another country had to pay for the movement of that contingent, to enable Benin to undertake its peacekeeping role within the sub-region. These are some of the things that Nigeria was carrying alone.
We would like to get this kind of support, this kind of assistance, so that least we would be in a position to free some of our own resources to devote to our own economic development.
Senator Mahovlich: There is quite a large population in Nigeria and I was wondering about your education system. Is there a shortage of teachers? For such a large population, I would think you would be looking for teachers. Are there Canadian professors or teachers in Nigeria?
Mr. George: There are no shortages of teachers at the elementary and secondary school levels in Nigeria. As I said, we have the largest pool of skilled labour on the continent.
Senator Mahovlich: Do you have your own teachers?
Mr. George: Oh, yes. I went to university in Nigeria.
Right now, we have a scheme, called a technical aid core scheme, where we send our professionals — doctors, accountants and nurses — to other African, Caribbean and Pacific countries.
Senator Mahovlich: In your country, does everyone speak the official language, English?
Mr. George: I would not say everyone.
Senator Prud'homme: It is like in Canada.
Mr. George: I thought the question you were going to raise had to do with the issue of the population. Yes, the population is large, and it was growing at a fast rate. There has been a lot of education, but this is a part of the challenge of the country.
The man who is a Muslim says, ``By my own religion, I am entitled to have four wives. You cannot dictate to me that I should have one wife or I should have only one child.'' Again, I refer to the vestiges of colonialism. These are some of the issues. ``No one is going to tell me that I should have three children, because I know raising one alone is hell.''
Again, it is a question culture; it is a question of religion. In fact, it is government legislated that you can only have four children.
Senator Mahovlich: Is that in law?
Mr. George: That is in law — but how is it possible to have four children if you have four wives?
To bring home the point, in terms of tax rebates, in terms of things that you might get from government, you only get that up to a maximum of four children. If you have 20 children, the remaining 16 are your own business. Those are the encouragements.
They can only be subtle, because it will be difficult for the federal government to say no, you must, because someone will come out and claim that their religious rights are being infringed.
The Chairman: In Canada, lots of people have four wives; they just have them at different times.
Mr. George: In our case, there are situations where there are four at a time, sometimes more.
Senator Prud'homme: Could you explain about how they must be treated exactly the same?
Mr. George: That is the misunderstanding. That is from the religious angle.
Senator Andreychuk: In some of my discussions, part of EDC's problem has been your recent past, and the number of coups and difficulties. Lending institutions want consistency over time. The challenge for Nigeria will be to show progress and consistency in the democratic changes that you are making. That leads me to the question that I would want to ask.
With the overwhelming population, with so much of the population being young, with HIV and other issues of education, et cetera, on the one hand, and on the other hand reinforcing now the rule of law in a democratic state, rebuilding institutions to have them function, repositioning the constitution, which is your biggest challenge? Is it the rule of law and the institutions, or is it the social dynamics that seem to be overwhelming?
I say that because a number of our speakers before identified the greatest challenge being HIV. Others have identified the corruption and the need to get rule of law across Africa, from their own perspectives. From the Nigerian's government's point of view, which you represent, what are your greatest challenges?
Mr. George: Certainly HIV/AIDS is not the greatest challenge to Nigeria. The issue of improving the well-being of the Nigerian is the greatest challenge. That can only come about with appropriate economic development programs. These are some of the pains that have been caused to Nigerians because, in the last five or six years, government has said that we cannot continue with business as usual. We have to change some things. That is why I said the EDC is probably three or four years behind. It is not up there with the present developments because if it were it would know that the economic programs put forth in the last four years have been subjected to scrutiny and tested by the World Bank and the IMF. They have been adjudged as credible. I have talked about what we were able to achieve in 2004. This will be sustained.
Nigerians realize that the way things were being done before was not the right way. We are now changing things ourselves, and there is progress on the issue of privatization as well as on the issue of foreign investments.
I am sure you must have been told that until four years ago there were a very limited number of cell phones in Nigeria. Today, even the man who sells things by the wayside owns a cell phone. People now wonder how they ever survived without their cell phones. That was only possible with the privatization of the telecommunications sector. It is a fact that Nigeria is now the fastest-growing economy vis-à-vis the issue of telecommunications. It has the highest density in this sector. That is why I threw out the challenge. Canadian companies are losing out.
Senator Andreychuk: May I follow up on that? You used the IMF and the World Bank as an example. Setting aside Britain, because of its historic position, has investment flowed in the last four years in any significant way from European and Asian countries? You have pointed out that Canada is lagging behind. What has happened with other countries?
Mr. George: Before I left Nigeria, I was the guest of various expatriate groups doing business there. One representative told me, ``Although it is tough doing business here, we are making money, and we do not want others to come.''
They do not tell others exactly what the situation is, because they do not want them to come.
Senator Corbin: Your Excellency, we both know that the barometer of the health of a democracy is freedom of expression. Can you tell us about the media and the press? Are they alive and kicking and complaining?
Mr. George: I wish you had visited Nigeria, because then you would know that ours is the freest press in the whole of Africa.
The Chairman: Your Excellency, on behalf of my colleagues, I want to thank you very much for an extremely informative afternoon. The thoroughness of your brief has taken us all aback. We will examine it more carefully.
Thank you again.
Mr. George: Thank you very much.
The committee adjourned.