Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Foreign Affairs
Issue 10 - Evidence - Meeting of March 23, 2005
OTTAWA, Wednesday, March 23, 2005
The Standing Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs met this day at 4:08 p.m. to examine the development and security challenges facing Africa; the response of the international community to enhance that continent's development and political stability; Canadian foreign policy as it relates to Africa. Topic: Senegal.
Senator Peter A. Stollery (Chairman) in the Chair.
[Translation]
The Chairman: Honourable senators, your Excellency, I would like to begin by apologizing for the somewhat unusual situation that we find ourselves in. You can hear the bells ringing for a vote that is scheduled for 4:40 p.m. in the Senate chamber. As soon as we are notified by the whip, we will have to suspend this meeting to go and vote.
Senator Corbin: Mr. Chairman, by way of clarification, I consulted the table officers. They again indicated to me that the committee has leave to sit, but we must show up to vote. So we will have to suspend for at least five minutes before the bells stop ringing in order to give senators time to go up to the Chamber to vote.
The Chairman: This is a bit of a new rule for me. Even after 23 years in the Senate, there are still some things I do not understand. Senator Corbin, however, is very well informed.
Senator Corbin: I asked for an explanation.
The Chairman: Perhaps, Your Excellency, you would like to begin your remarks and then we can ask a few questions. Welcome. Without further delay, I will now give you the floor.
His Excellency Amadou Diallo, Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary to Canada, Embassy of the Republic of Senegal: I would like to begin by expressing my sincere gratitude for allowing me to contribute in this way to your study, which will result in a report on the development challenges facing Africa. Senegal's presentation here today will add to your reflection, which I am sure will lead to good solutions to the many challenges in Africa.
Senegal is at the western edge of the African continent, bordering the Atlantic Ocean, at the meeting place between Europe, Africa and the Americas and at the crossroads of major sea and air routes. The area of Senegal is 196,722 square kilometers. It is bordered on the north by Mauritania, on the east by Mali, on the south by Guinea and Guinea- Bissau, to the west by Gambia and the Atlantic Ocean, which stretches for 500 kilometres along the country's coast.
The capital, Dakar, is located on a peninsula on the westernmost edge of Senegal. In 2001, the population was 9.8 million inhabitants, with an average density of 48 inhabitants per square mile. Senegal has some 20 ethnic groups, of which the main ones are the Wolof (43 per cent), the Pulaar (24 per cent) and the Sérères (15 per cent). As far as religion goes, 94 per cent of inhabitants are Muslim, 5 per cent are Christian and 1 per cent follow traditional religions.
For the past few decades, Senegal has been considered the showcase for democracy in Africa. The country was led for 40 years by the Socialist Party and the government changed through political means, without violence, in March 2000, something that was commended by development partners and the rest of the world. Senegal adopted a full multi- party system in 1981. It currently has over 60 political parties, of which 13 are represented in the National Assembly.
The new Constitution, which was introduced by referendum in January 2001, reduced the term of office for future presidents from seven years to five. Presidents are allowed only one additional term. The number of National Assembly members was reduced from 140 to 120. After the new Constitution was adopted, new legislative elections were held, which led to the presidential movement — known as the SOPI coalition, which means ``change'' in Senegalese — obtaining the majority in Parliament, with 89 seats. The President of the Republic, Mr. Abdoulaye Wade, was elected for a seven-year term, through universal suffrage, with the possibility of one additional term.
Since its independence, Senegal has set up a certain number of institutions aimed at guaranteeing the rule of law: the head of state, who plays a pivotal role in these institutions, and the President of the Republic. The separation of powers into the executive, legislative and judicial branches is scrupulously respected by the 1963 Constitution, which has been amended a number of times.
The President of the Republic holds the executive power. He is elected through direct universal suffrage and a two- round first-past-the-post voting system. He is elected for a five-year term and can be re-elected for one additional term. The president sets the policy for the nation. The current President of the Republic, Abdoulaye Wade, was elected for the first time on March 19, 2000, and is currently in his first term.
The National Assembly is composed of 120 members who are elected for a five-year term. It is the National Assembly to which the people delegate their representatives to exercise legislative power. These representatives adopt legislation, monitor government activities and have the power to call on the government to resign through a non- confidence motion.
The government includes the prime minister, the head of government and the ministers. The government conducts and coordinates the nation's policies, defined by the President of the Republic, under the direction of the prime minister. He is responsible to the National Assembly.
The judicial system consists of the Constitutional Council, the Appeal Court, the State Council, the Accounts Court and various courts and tribunals. The Senegalese Constitution includes three fundamental principles: the independence of judges, courts and tribunals, the inviolability of human rights and the absolute right to a defense.
The Republic Council for Economic and Social Affairs is a consultative body. It is composed in such a way as to reflect the various social groups in the country involved in economic, social, educational and cultural activities. Because of the age and quality of its members, it is a great repository of wisdom and experience that helps reinforce national unity and social cohesion. This council plays a key role in advising the President of the Republic, the government and the National Assembly in all their activities. It provides advice at the request of these institutions and on its own initiative.
Senegal has 11 administrative regions, whose capitals are the major cities of Dakar, Diourbel, Fatick, Kaolack, Louga, Matam, Saint-Louis, Tambacounda, Thiès, and Ziguinchor.
In the area of local development and administrative decentralization, the prerogatives and jurisdiction of local communities have been reinforced by the so-called regionalization laws of 1996. The objective is not only to transfer responsibility to local communities in various areas, such as education, the environment, and infrastructure development, but also to put in place funding mechanisms for this purpose.
With respect to foreign policy, Senegal has always been considered internationally as a catalyst for regional development and a country that plays an important strategic role in Africa, despite its small population and modern means. With its exceptional geostrategic position and, in particular, its high-quality human resources, Senegal is determined to stand up and be counted in the world, through an effective and rational foreign policy, in order to promote economic and social development that is predicated on peace among peoples. Senegal favours the elimination of any form of discrimination and the development of fairer and more equitable relationships among nations.
Senegal's foreign policy is based on five major themes. The first is establishment of good relations with neighbouring countries and the achievement of subregional integration objectives. Maintaining good relations with immediate neighbours means being in control of border issues, which is why it is particularly important to be aware of the political, economic and social issues and realities of neighbouring countries. This diplomacy tied to our geography is based on dialogue and practices of mutual cooperation. It also reflects maturity, dynamic compromise and a desire for peace in our relations with surrounding countries.
In keeping with its efforts toward subregional integration, Senegal has a foreign policy that is directed mainly to building major institutions like the Economic Community of West African States (ECOWAS) and more recently the West African Economic and Monetary Union (WAEMU). This approach may flow from the doctrine put forward by former President Senghor, which held that integration at a continental level was predicated on the success of subregional groupings.
The second theme of Senegal's foreign policy is continental integration in view of African unity. The preamble to the Senegalese Constitution affirms Senegal's attachment to the ideal of African unity. Furthermore, article 96 states:
The Republic of Senegal may enter into association or community with any African state and may even abandon totally or partially its sovereignty in order to achieve African unity.
Senegal's participation in the preparatory work leading to the creation of the Organization of African Unity (OAU) and the African Union (AU) reflects its political stand in favour of continental unity.
Promoting peace in the world, which is the third theme of Senegal's foreign policy, is carried out through the direct involvement of Senegal's diplomatic corps or army in finding ways to prevent conflicts and build peace. Some of the countries in which Senegal has been able to play a role are Mozambique, Côte d'Ivoire, Angola, Bosnia Herzegovina, Sudan, Liberia and Congo.
Under UN auspices, Senegal has taken part in over 20 peacekeeping operations around the world since it became an independent country. It was in that spirit that Senegal helped create the mechanisms of Economic Community of West African States (ECOWAS), the Organization of African Unity (OAU) and the African Union (AU) aimed at preventing, managing and resolving conflicts.
The fourth theme of Senegal's foreign policy is the protection of human rights. At the African level, it was Senegal that initiated the idea of an African Charter on Human and Peoples' Rights. At the world level, Senegal's foreign policy in this area has meant that it has been a quasi-permanent member of the UN Commission on Human Rights, which it chaired in 1978 and 1988. In the Israeli-Arab crisis, Senegal has chaired the Committee on the Exercise of the Inelienable Rights of the Palestinian People since that body was created.
The fifth them of Senegal's foreign policy is economic diplomacy. In order to continue to promote economic growth, reduce poverty and develop entrepreneurial infrastructure, the government plans to accelerate the process of integration into the international trade system and promote joint ventures between Senegalese companies and those from developed countries, not only to stimulate foreign direct investment (FDI), and technology transfer, but also to take advantage of profitable markets for Senegalese products in developed countries.
Senegal is active in the world through regional, subregional and international organizations. It is a member of the African Union (AU), the Economic Community of West African States (ECOWAS), the West African Economic and Monetary Union (WAEMU) the Senegal River Development Organization (OMVS), which is composed of the countries bordering the river such as Mali and Mauritania, the Gambia River Basin Development Organization (OMVG), which includes Gambia, Guinea-Bissau, Senegal and Guinea Conakry.
Senegal is also a member of the Permanent Inter-State Committee on Drought Control in the Sahel (CILSS), whose member countries are Burkina Faso, Cape Verde, Gambia, Guinea-Bissau, Mali, Mauritania, Niger, Senegal and Tchad. It is also a member of other organizations, such as the Economic and Statistical Observatory of Sub-Saharan Africa (AFRISTAT), the Inter-African Conference on Social Security (CIPRES), the Inter-African Conference on Insurance Markets (CIMA) and the Organization for the Harmonization of Business Law in Africa (OHADA).
Senegal is a member of numerous international organizations, including the United Nations (UN), the World Trade Organization (WTO), the International Organization of the Francophonie (OIF), the Group of Fifteen (G15) and, finally, the Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC). Senegal enjoys a special relationship with the European Union through the African, Caribbean and Pacific Group of States (ACP Group), and with a number of other OECD countries such as Canada.
The economic environment in Senegal has been marked by the monetary adjustment in January 1994, which led to the devaluation of the CFA franc. The devaluation of the franc was accompanied by the success of economic reforms which put Senegal on the path of economic growth. However, performance up to this point has not yet improved people's living conditions and the business climate as much as we would like to see.
The Chairman: I apologize for interrupting you, Your Excellency. I am looking at the time and I see that we are going to have to go and vote in the Chamber in 10 minutes. I just wanted to point that out to you, because I know that Senator Carney has questions that she would like to ask.
[English]
Senator Carney: Ambassador, your remarks are coherent and easy for us to follow. Since most of us do not have much experience with your country, how important is trade with Canada or other North American countries, vis-à-vis trade between the south and south countries to you? We have been told by representatives of other countries that south-south trade is more important to you than say south-north trade and that Canada should spend its efforts facilitating south-south trade in the WTO, rather than encouraging north-south trade. Is that something you would agree with?
[Translation]
Mr. Diallo: Promoting Senegalese exports to Canada is a significant challenge for us. Right now, the trade balance is not in Senegal's favour. Senegal exports about one million dollars' worth of products a year to Canada, while Canada exports nearly $40 million worth of goods to Senegal. This creates a very large trade imbalance.
Canada has recently opened its borders to products from developing countries, particularly African countries. That step is part of the ``Canadian initiative'' and applies to all products except eggs and poultry. Unfortunately, this new policy has not been communicated throughout the Senegalese economy. So we are facing the major challenge of spreading the information through the economic networks in Senegal so that people can take advantage of this new situation.
We will also have to adapt our products so that they meet Canadian standards, and even do more processing of our products. Unfortunately, a number of African countries export only raw materials without any added value.
I believe that the Trade Facilitation Office is expected to provide training to our businesses to position them for the Canadian market. The embassy is trying to identify markets for Senegalese exports and is working to facilitate the penetration of Canadian products and services and the export of Senegalese products and services into Canada.
[English]
Senator Carney: I will come back to that if we have time. I would like to switch the topic.
I notice from your material that you have a very young population. The median age is only 18 years, which means that you have a lot of babies and young people to educate. I notice also that aid from CIDA, which is $16 million a year to Senegal, is targeted 60 per cent to educational programs, especially to girls, and 40 per cent to economic development assistance. Those are just broad figures; 60 per cent of our aid is targeted to Senegal's education, 40 per cent for economic development, particularly in micro-enterprises. Do you agree with those targets? Is Canada on target with its aid to Senegal, or do you have other priorities?
[Translation]
Mr. Diallo: Education is the cornerstone of development. By earmarking 60 per cent of its resources to the education sector, I believe that CIDA has identified the right priority.
In Senegal and Africa, everything is a challenge, not only education but also health and infrastructure. People often fight to get infrastructure funded through official development assistance, which is an area that CIDA used to be involved in. Canada, as we know, has contributed a great deal to the development of infrastructure, such as schools, including the polytechnical school at Thiés. The journalism school is one of the infrastructure projects carried out by Canada and it enhances Canada's reputation in Africa. When people stop in front of a building, they are proud to say that Canadians built it.
So there are a number of challenges that need to be met. If we can target other aspects, such as infrastructure and health, that kind of intervention will also help.
[English]
Senator Carney: My third question deals with international institutions like the World Bank and the IMF. We have been told by other representatives that the World Bank and IMF terms of aid do more harm than good to African countries. Bodies such as these are so stringent and inflexible that they actually hurt economies rather than help them.
[Translation]
Mr. Diallo: The policies of the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank include a structural adjustment program that has been applied in Africa for decades. Unfortunately, the program has often had a disastrous effect on our economies.
For example, the structural adjustment program promotes economic liberalization, wage freezes, currency devaluation and, in particular, reduction of the civil service. In Africa, as we know, one civil servant feeds 20 people or so. So you can imagine the impact this has had on people.
Moreover, devaluing the currency puts a country at a trade disadvantage. Let me give you an example. Let us say that a farmer can usually buy a tractor by growing 10 tons of groundnuts. As a result of devaluation, he will have to grow 20 tons of groundnuts to buy the same tractor.
So you can see the real consequences of these structural adjustment policies in Africa.
[English]
The Chairman: I will interrupt at this stage. These are good questions, Senator Carney. Our assistants are taking down the information.
We will suspend the meeting for a few minutes so that committee members may attend a vote in the Senate chamber.
[Translation]
This is a new procedure that is a bit unusual.
[English]
I am in the hands of the committee.
Senator Di Nino: It would be great if our witnesses could stay. We apologize for the inconvenience. We do not control our lives in Parliament.
[Translation]
Senator Corbin: Perhaps we could bring them up to visit the Senate.
The Chairman: You are welcome if you would like to come and see the Senate. We have your comments and they will be included in our report. Do not worry, we will look after everything. The clerk will lead you to the gallery. We will come back in 15 minutes.
(The committee suspended its sitting.)
(The committee resumed its sitting.)
The Chairman: When he comes back, Senator Corbin will have a question for you. In the meantime, I would like to ask you a question. If I understood correctly, relations with the World Bank are not always good. Is that the case, Your Excellency?
Mr. Diallo: Absolutely. And that situation creates very difficult circumstances for ordinary people. As I mentioned earlier, countries that have gone through structural adjustment programs have suffered from the conditions imposed. Economic liberalization, of course, leads to very vigorous competition at the international level.
Devaluation of the currency also has an impact on businesses that have to import their production equipment. This equipment is often manufactured abroad and must be bought using foreign currency. So the price is much higher. It should also be pointed out that most African countries are not self-sufficient in food. Many consumer goods also have to be imported, and this poses a huge challenge for people.
Rice, for example, is widely eaten in Africa, particularly in Senegal. It is imported from Asian countries and paid for with foreign currency. Other imports have to be imported to produce goods and services in Senegal.
[English]
Senator Di Nino: This is an issue that we have undertaken to study on behalf of the Senate of Canada, and the more we look into it, the more we see and the bigger the issue becomes. Our challenge is to focus on the areas that we think would best benefit Africa. This is where I would like to have a bit of a dialogue with you, sir, to ask you a couple of questions as to our relations and where you think we should be directing our attention.
You talked about trade with Canada, and it seems that we are not really buying a lot of products from you; is that correct?
[Translation]
Mr. Diallo: Canada buys few products from Senegal. Most of the exports from Senegal to Canada are raw materials and phosphate products. Paradoxically, Canada imports computer parts from Senegal.
There are Canadian businesses that have set up in Senegal to build computers. This technological transfer is a very positive thing. Not only does it result in local jobs for Senegalese workers, but it also creates expertise in the production of manufactured goods. So we would like to see more initiatives of this type.
The embassy organizes economic missions to Senegal for Canadian businesses. Last year, we organized two of these missions. As a result, five businesses set up operations in Senegal, not only to build computers, but also in the security and housing construction fields.
We strongly encourage such initiatives and we call this approach ``economic diplomacy.'' Senegal is trying to promote this kind of economic diplomacy through its embassies. We need to have Senegal's missions abroad play a greater economic role. To do this, we have the support of certain Canadian organizations such as the Trade Facilitation Office, the Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade, and the international trade section of Team Canada.
Networks were created. The Canadian Network for the Development of Senegal is composed of some 20 Canadian businesses, including the Tecsult company and SNC-Lavalin, that want to work to promote development in Senegal. The institutions are interested and we need to encourage them to move forward toward achieving these trade objectives. We want to overcome the imbalance between Canadian exports of some $40 million and Senegalese exports of only $1 million. So we need to find ways to bridge the gap separating us.
The Chairman: How does this $40 million break down?
Mr. Diallo: It is mainly asbestos and wheat. Canada also exports manufactured products and technology.
The Chairman: Canada certainly exports all sorts of things, but it is mainly wheat and asbestos, is that right?
Mr. Diallo: Asbestos accounts for a large part of the exports to Senegal.
[English]
Senator Di Nino: I was very pleased that you talked about the Canadian company manufacturing computer parts to be exported to Canada. This is an area that I would like to concentrate on over the next little while. It seems to me that there is an opportunity for many African countries to do the kinds of things that Western companies have done in Asia. They could set up a manufacturing concern, whether in the textile industry or the high-tech industry, and create a technology transfer that would be of long-term benefit to Africa. Obviously, not much of it is happening now, but is it beginning to happen? Do you see some improvement or enlargement of those activities in Senegal? If you have any knowledge regarding other parts of Africa, perhaps you could comment on that as well.
[Translation]
Mr. Diallo: I believe that things are moving in the right direction. The businesses that I am talking about have come to Senegal gradually. Touch Technology has been in Senegal for seven or eight years. Since that time, a number of other Canadian companies have started operations in Senegal. Moteurs Dubé is working in the industrial rewinding sector and Lambert Somec in rural electrification. Service de communications Morrissette is involved in the security field and new information technologies. There are also other companies in the publishing and computer fields. Canarail is involved in rail transport in Senegal. These are concrete examples of Canadian companies that have set up shop in West Africa. In Senegal, we have seen more of this kind of initiatives. Our success is due partly to the fact that we belong to the big family of the Francophonie, but also partly to the strong role played by Senegal's very dynamic private sector.
Political stability is also a very important consideration for investors. Senegal is one of the most visible countries on the African continent. It is known for its democracy and its model of good governance, which act as an incentive for foreign companies to set up operations in our country.
[English]
Senator Di Nino: In general terms, could you tell us the two or three things that you believe Canada could do, or could do better, in reaching out to Africa and particularly to your country?
[Translation]
Mr. Diallo: Canada is to be congratulated on its outstanding role in promoting economic development in Senegal. For more than 40 years, Canada has invested over $500 million in Senegal's economy through development projects. Bilateral assistance is now going to be increased by 8 per cent, of which half will go to Africa. Senegal, of course, will also benefit from this increase because it is one of the nine core countries for Canada's official development assistance.
Canada is currently focusing to a large extent on education and the grassroots economy. We would like to see other avenues explored, such as infrastructure projects, since infrastructure supports development. The building of roads and railways open up markets and encourage businesses to locate to Senegal.
Canada can also play an important role in this area, by developing programs to help companies that want to operate in Senegal. There is the Program for Export Market Development (PEMD), the Investment Cooperative Program that still exist at CIDA, and the IDEA-SME program under Canada Economic Development. These kinds of programs enable businesses to do market studies and set up special projects with foreign countries. But such programs hardly exist anymore. I think that these initiatives should be revitalized.
Canada needs to help Senegal position itself on the international scene. With increasing market globalization, competition is becoming more fierce. Canada could help Senegal, for example, in the export field through the transformation of raw materials into value-added products.
Markets are beginning to open up. However, Canada needs to do more. Senegal is a major producer of peanut butter. We would like it very much if someday the peanut butter on your breakfast tables were to be from Senegal.
You have a lot of snow in Canada; we have a lot of salt. This could be an attractive market for Canada and Senegal.
In economic terms, the borders must be opened up. In order to achieve this, we must be able to process our raw materials, increase the value added and find areas of agreement with Canada. I mentioned the examples of salt and peanut butter. Senegal is also very rich in fish. We are already exporting fish to the United States and we would like to export more to Canada.
One of the main challenges Canada could help us with is the development of an air link between Canada and Senegal that would further promote our economic and trade relations.
Senator Corbin: Let me quote an excerpt from the information about Senegal provided to us by our researchers:
Farmers (in Senegal) are anxious about a plan to privatize the State's ground-nut sector oversight body, Sonacos. The 2002 dissolution of Sonagraines, the sector's marketing body, went disastrously wrong, leaving farmers angry because of unsold production and the role of the multilateral institutions in encouraging the reform.
A number of key factors came into play here. My question is similar to the one asked earlier by Senator Carney. Does the quotation I just read accurately reflect the situation that prevailed and that still prevails in your country? Earlier this week, and last week, we heard some comments to the effect that the policies of the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund promoted the abolition of marketing bodies. I think that is what we are talking about in this case.
These marketing boards, as we call them in Canada — and there is one for chicken, milk and other products — guarantee an income to farmers. This income is important for your farmers. Should we really be concerned about the undue pressure on and interference in your economy caused by the policies of the World Bank and the IMF? I would like to hear your comments on this.
Mr. Diallo: Farming has always been difficult for us, because we are subject to unforeseeable weather. We live in a country with a Sahelian climate, where we have desert conditions in some areas and where precipitation is unpredictable. In addition, we are subject to grasshopper invasions. Farmers therefore have to deal with some extremely variable weather conditions.
Senator Corbin: Are you drawing an analogy between the grasshoppers, the IMF and the World Bank?
Mr. Diallo: Well, I would not go quite that far!
Senator Corbin: Please go ahead.
Mr. Diallo: Sonacos is the body that looks after the production of oil seeds, oils, rice and groundnuts. The government usually provides the seeds and sets a ceiling price for the purchase of grains. However, farmers have not always been in unanimous agreement regarding this policy. This means that they must therefore require much higher prices for their products.
In addition, to answer your question, I believe that Sonacos has been privatized quite recently.
Senator Corbin: My question was more specifically about what we see increasingly as undue interference on the part of the World Bank and the IMF in the internal management of your affairs. You are forced to implement solutions that cause even more serious problems for your people, particularly in agriculture.
Mr. Diallo: Suggestions of this type are not adapted to our situation, and do unfortunately cause problems for us. The type of problem you just mentioned also raises the debate about productivity once again. Should we just be producing food crops to sustain our people, or should we be producing cash crops for export? This issue raises some tremendous challenges. When farmers grow crops just for export, their production decreases. Farmers have little to eat, because they are no longer growing food crops, but rather cash crops.
Moreover, renowned author René Dumont condemned this situation in his book L'Afrique noire est mal partie. He said it was a vicious circle. The farmer is hungry because he does not farm much; and because he does not farm much, he is hungry, precisely because he is growing cash crops rather than food crops.
[English]
Senator Grafstein: My question reverts to a question that Senator Andreychuk asked of previous witnesses on our mutual interest in regional development.
Senegal is a member of the West African Economic and Monetary Union which, I take it, is to provide a larger regional market for the import and export of goods. Is that working well? Is it effective and helpful? Are the institutions in place to make it work? Is this a preferred route for economic development for Senegal?
[Translation]
Mr. Diallo: The West African Economic and Monetary Union is composed of approximately eight West African countries that share common currency, the CFA franc. So, integration was a success. The European Union was established before the creation of a common currency. In West Africa, the currency existed before the West African Economic and Monetary Union was established. This vibrant union was created to ensure consistent macroeconomic policies.
The union is also a customs union and focuses a great deal on harmonizing customs tariffs as well as foreign investment policies. Investors arriving into the zone under this harmonization can settle anywhere they like and enjoy the same conditions in each African country.
Of course, there are challenges, because unfortunately, all countries do not enjoy the same economic realities. Senegal is much more urbanized and better developed than other countries in the region. Côte d'Ivoire also has a level of development that is superior to that of other neighbouring countries. So these are the types of challenges faced by this monetary union.
The Chairman: Thank you very much, Ambassador. I apologize, but I have to adjourn the meeting. On behalf of the senators, I thank you. Your testimony was very interesting and your answers will be of help to us in our work.
The meeting is adjourned.