Proceedings of the Standing Committee on
Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration
Issue 3 - Evidence for July 20, 2005
OTTAWA, Wednesday, July 20, 2005
The Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration met this day at 9:05 a.m. to consider administrative and other matters.
Senator George J. Furey (Chairman) in the chair.
[English]
The Chairman: Honourable senators, Senator St. Germain has a request to make regarding an application for international travel.
Senator St. Germain: Honourable senators, thank you for taking the time to consider my application for international travel.
Mr. Chairman, I believe all honourable senators have received a copy of the invitation I was extended by the Crow Nation, in particular from the Chief Justice of the Crow Nation, Donald Laverdure. He is Assistant Professor of Law, Indigenous Law Program, at Michigan State University. He also has an affiliation with the University of Ottawa on Aboriginal issues.
I have received an invitation to attend the Crow Nation Fair. I have been asked to participate in the fair by addressing an assembled group. They also want me to be part of the parade they will be holding.
The important part of this trip will be the exposure I will receive to the tribal court systems of the Crow Nation. While we have several Aboriginal self-governments in Canada, we have not established separate court systems for them. For example, under the Nisga'a agreement, and others, no such systems have been established. My understanding is that they are working toward that.
I have been a member of the Standing Senate Committee on Aboriginal Peoples for several years. Senator Sibbeston and I are looking at various aspects of this topic by considering what the Navajo and Hopi tribes are doing in what is called the Four Corners of the four nations. They have quite sophisticated judicial systems.
I will also be meeting with the chiefs of the Crow Nation in regard to how they have structured the governance of their particular reserve lands and other lands that are under their control.
I expect to drive to Montana. The Crow Nation is about 70 miles from Billings, Montana. I will have to commute daily to the Crow Nation for the three days that I will be there. It makes more sense to drive down. It is about a two- day drive in both directions. If I drive my own car, at least I will have transportation while I am there.
I have applied for mileage. I expect to cover about 4,000 kilometres on this trip. It is approximately 3,000 kilometres round trip. I will also have to drive to other parts of Montana to do what I expect I will be asked to do by the Crow Nation.
I would like to take my time driving to Montana, as I may want to stop to visit other Aboriginal bands. Driving will give me the option of doing that.
If honourable senators have any questions, I would gladly try to answer them. This application is not complex. The trip will definitely add to my education. Hopefully, I can submit a report that will be of assistance to the committee and to all of us who work on Aboriginal issues here in Ottawa.
Senator Massicotte: I do not want to be picky. I simply want to understand the honourable senator's request. Does the $1,760 under ``Ground Transportation'' relate to the number of kilometres you expect to travel?
Senator St. Germain: That is a mistake. When my assistant went to speak with Ms. Lavoie, the Senate's Planning and Coordination Adviser, they brought up the mileage on Google and found that it was 880 kilometres. I said, ``I know how far it is. It is quite a few kilometres south of Calgary. It has to be more than that.'' We pulled the information back up and saw that it is 1,511 kilometres from Vancouver to Billings, Montana. Therefore, that figure is incorrect. It is 3,000 kilometres round trip.
As well, I will have to drive at least 150 kilometres a day going back and forth from Billings to the Crow Nation.
Senator Massicotte: Would it not be cheaper to rent a car for the whole week? Is that what you will be doing, senator?
Senator St. Germain: I am driving my own vehicle. I will be paying for my own fuel.
Senator Massicotte: I suspect it will be cheaper to rent a car.
Senator Di Nino: To rent a car there.
Senator Massicotte: You can rent a car for $500 to $600 per week, which would probably be half the cost of mileage and gas. You may even be able to rent a better car than your own.
Senator St. Germain: I will be driving my pick-up truck because all the roads down there are gravel. Whenever we travel in British Columbia, we normally travel in our own vehicles. I took it for granted that if I were driving I would be using my own vehicle.
Senator Di Nino: My question is also more of a practical one. This is a request for seven days. You are saying that you will be travelling two days there and two days back. Thus, you will be spending four days on the road and three days there. Is that what I understand?
Senator St. Germain: Approximately. I may make it in six days, if I go faster. According to the Google maps, it takes 16 hours to drive there.
Senator Di Nino: As a friend, I would say that you should take two days. You do not want to kill yourself either.
In the tone that I was asking the question, it sounds unusual to spend four days travelling for a three-day meeting.
Senator St. Germain: I will most likely be stopping on the way back in the Okanagan Valley. I was also thinking of stopping to work in the state of Idaho as well.
The Chairman: Honourable senators, is there anything further?
Thank you, Senator St. Germain. It will take a few minutes to discuss your request and advise you accordingly.
The committee continued in camera.