Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Transport and Communications
Issue 18 - Evidence - Morning meeting
DIEPPE, Friday, April 22, 2005
The Standing Senate Committee on Transport and Communications is meeting today at 9:08 a.m. to examine the present state of the Canadian media industries; trends and emerging developments within those industries, the role, the rights and obligations of the media in Canadian society and the present and future policies relevant to those industries.
Senator Joan Fraser (Chairman) takes the chair.
[Translation]
The Chairman: I would like to mention the extraordinary contribution of our Moncton witnesses as well as the faithful attendance of the members in the audience. We were told yesterday that there were more people in the audience in Vancouver than here, however, on a per capita basis, Moncton is far more impressive.
Honourable senators, welcome once again to this hearing of the Senate Committee on Transport and Communications in Dieppe. We are continuing our hearings on our examination of the state of the Canadian media industries.
[English]
The committee is looking in particular at the appropriate role of public policy in connection with the news media and helping to ensure that the media remain healthy, independent and diverse in light of the tremendous changes that have occurred in recent years, notably technological change, globalization, convergence and increased concentration of ownership.
[Translation]
It is a pleasure to welcome Ms. Marie-Linda Lord, professor and past director of the Information and Communications Program at the Université de Moncton. Ms. Lord was a journalist at Radio-Canada and can thus give us several points of view on this matter. Welcome, Ms. Lord.
We would ask you to make a presentation lasting about 10 minutes, and then we will proceed with questions. You have the floor.
Ms. Marie-Linda Lord, Professor, Information and Communications Program, Université de Moncton, as an individual: Thank you, Madam Chairman. You heard a lot about the Irving empire yesterday and I can tell you this morning that you will hear about them again today because everything has not been said yet. All the testimony, during these two days in Moncton, have served to identify the pieces of the puzzle of this increasing and worrisome press monopoly in New Brunswick. First, I would like to say a few words about the challenges faced by the Acadian media in this press monopoly context and also about the challenges facing the Acadian community when it comes to using French in a minority context in New Brunswick.
I would like to address two opposite and different media realities that go along side by side in New Brunswick: the logic of capitalism and the logic of community. It is a pleasure to address this topic this morning because many of yesterday's presentations, except the one made by L'Acadie Nouvelle, almost exclusively talked about the situation of anglophones in New Brunswick. There is one reality that cannot be ignored in our province and it is that of the Acadian community.
The two systems of logic, capitalist and community are more and more successful and are creating a new media landscape especially in New Brunswick's Acadie. On the one hand, there is the increased presence of that entrepreneurial giant that is the Irving Group in the Acadian print media and, on the other hand, the unprecedented popular success of French-language community radio stations. Both characteristics would seem like a contradiction.
On the one hand, an omnipresent capitalist empire controlling many sectors of our economic activities simultaneously. Yesterday, as we heard a few times, we found out that there are 300 companies belonging to the Irving empire in New Brunswick and as part of that empire, you have almost all of the anglophone print media and a non- negligible portion of the francophone print media which, traditionally, has been used to serve the third of the population that wants to have a public face for itself and by itself.
On the other side, you have a network of community radio stations scattered all over the territory which, daily, reaches three-quarters of the francophones in this province and gives them a voice which allows the Acadian community to listen to itself and what it has to say for the first time in its history.
This situation may seem paradoxical for some but it can be explained, or at least, a partial one. While, over the last two years, the Irving empire has substantially increased the number of newspapers it ownsin the province, the network of community radio stations, on the other hand, has also been gradually growing. In 1988, we saw the birth of our first community radio station and at the end of 2005, there will be nine throughout the province. The omnipresence of an empire with financial resources that are unrivalled in New Brunswick and the huge popularity of community radio stations with very little in the way of financial resources present a problem, each in its own way, for journalistic production in New Brunswick.
The independence of the print media, which was a source of pride for the Acadian community, has been seriously undermined since the Irving empire managed to increase the number of French-language newspapers it owns. The phenomenon of media concentration is spreading across the western world, and New Brunswick is not immune to it. On the contrary, New Brunswick probably has one of the worst cases, not just of media concentration but of downright monopoly, in any geopolitical region in the country. And while on the subject of monopoly, Irving's vast business empire should never be far from our thoughts. Irving does not just monopolize the press.
The Irving empire now owns more than two-thirds of all of New Brunswick's publications, a situation which begs the following question: is there still time for New Brunswick and Acadia to be concerned about this monopoly, or does it already have a stranglehold?
While newspaper ownership seems to be steadily slipping away from it, the Acadian community is expanding its radio holdings, thanks to government subsidies which have allowed it to set up more community radio stations. On the home page of its website, the Association des radios communautaires acadiennes du Nouveau-Brunswick, an association which we call the ARCANB, proudly asserts that community radio stations are, and I quote “a democratic model of communication,” since they belong to the communities that run them, in part thanks to public funding. One of ARCANB's goals is to revitalize the community by legitimizing the Acadian language in the public domain. However, news coverage is not always a priority for community radio.
Between the two media poles — press monopoly and community radio stations — stand L'Acadie Nouvelle, whose representatives appeared before this committee yesterday, and Radio-Canada Atlantique's radio and television network, which, in delivering information, keep the Acadian cause on course.
There is a new danger looming of the newsrooms of Radio-Canada Atlantique and L'Acadie Nouvelle: the chronic shortage of new blood. The Irving empire is sticking its nose in once again. The Université de Moncton, which has been recognized as the institution that has made the biggest contribution over the last 40 years to the development of the Acadian community, accepted a $1-million donation from the Irving empire in January 2005, so very recently, to establish the Roméo LeBlanc chair of journalism studies under its Information and Communications Program. Naming it after Roméo LeBlanc, who was a journalist before becoming a cabinet minister in the Trudeau government, and later Governor General of Canada, honours a highly-regarded Acadian personality and in a sense Acadianizes the chair.
As you know, we found out yesterday that a similar donation was made to the English-language journalism program at St. Thomas University in Fredericton, in this case, the chair bears the Irving name. An advisory committee of six people, including a member of the Irving family, will oversee the activities funded by the chairs, out of an annual budget of $45,000 each. The $1-million donation has been all over the headlines, but it is important to understand that the Irvings have, in fact, only committed $45,000 per year; this amount will be used to cover the costs of guest instructors and journalists to provide, and I quote, “students with a better education.” Who will these guests be?
Furthermore, the Université de Moncton and the Irving empire (as well as St. Thomas University on the English side) have also signed a two-year trial agreement, in the wake of a $170,000 donation, to establish various co-op terms and internships at Irving newspapers for students from the Information and Communications Program. There are no such arrangements between the Université de Moncton and any other media companies, be they local or from elsewhere. How will this affect students' traditional interest in doing an unpaid work term in one of the newsrooms at Radio-Canada or L'Acadie Nouvelle, as has always been the way, when they can now earn at least $10 an hour at an Irving newspaper?
It is no longer a level playing field. Irving has now bought its way into both of New Brunswick's university-level journalism programs. What will the media and business empire do next to extend its reach?
Acadia should be more careful. It has extensive experience in combating linguistic assimilation, and sooner rather than later, it had better exercise its well-honed reflexes to resist what appears to be a genuine threat of journalistic assimilation of the print media. The number of hold-outs is declining; yesterday, our fallen comrades appeared before the committee to speak of their unequal, insurmountable struggle. It has become imperative to keep a closer eye on this media predator. Acadia surely does not want to be reduced to reading about itself in newspapers that belong to the Irving empire. This would go against its vision of the future, not to mention all the consequences and dangers that an even bigger monopoly would hold for freedom of the press, the independence of journalists, the primacy of information, respect for the idea of public service, and social responsibility in Acadia.
In other parts of the Western world, a fifth power is being born: an activist civic force that is manifesting itself in particular in the establishment of media watch organizations consisting of professional journalists, academics and ordinary media users.
In January 2003, Media Watch Global was formed in Porto Alegre, Brazil, to oppose the extraordinary power of the mass media corporations, such as the American giants AOL Time Warner, General Electric, Microsoft and Disney, to name only a few. A similar Media Watch Organization was founded just over a year ago in Paris to monitor the national scene in France. In Canada, media concentration is very real, as we too have our giants: CanWest Global Communications, Rogers Communications, Transcontinental, Quebecor, Gesca, Irving and others. It is in relation to these media giants that French journalist Jean-François Kahn's controversial views take on a clear meaning, and I quote:
It did not matter so much when the owner only published newspapers or if he had a canning plant as well. But when the owner has multiple interests, which correspond to an entire industry at the national and international level, it is a problem for freedom of the press. The real problem arises when media concentration converges with economic concentration [...] Liberalism makes us reluctant to limit the growth of the media conglomerates, but that liberalism is leading to identical one-track discourse and one-track thinking in the media outlets belonging to the same conglomerate. We are reinventing communism, abeit on a private basis!
This is indeed a paradox of neo-liberalism which compels us to think about press monopolies. The one in New Brunswick is flourishing and is even close to saturating the market. It has become imperative to monitor the press in our province. How can we do that? It would undoubtedly be a good idea to have a media watch organization in Canada, with offices in the various provinces, including New Brunswick. Perhaps we could locate one of the offices right next to the Irving chairs of journalism studies which have been set up in New Brunswick's two universities?
Madam Chairman, with your permission, I would like to suggest that, when formulating your recommendations, it is of the utmost importance that you do not ignore Canada's different regional and provincial realities. In 1981, the Kent Commission made recommendations to restrict press concentration in Canada; amongst other recommendations, the commission advocated that no press group or individual owner have a print run exceeding 5 per cent of Canada's total dailies market. That is a far cry from the situation in Canada today.
But at the time, that recommendation left the way open to Irving in New Brunswick, with only 2 per cent of national circulation at the time. Irving now has 85 per cent of the circulation of New Brunswick dailies, leaving 15 per cent to L'Acadie Nouvelle, and that is why I emphasize the need to keep provincial realities in mind in making your recommendations.
[English]
Senator Tkachuk: Thank you for your presentation.
You talked about the power of the Irving family and the ownership of the media. If they did not have all of these other interests, would their ownership of all the English-language newspapers or their ownership of the newspapers in New Brunswick still be a monopoly situation that would cause you problems?
[Translation]
Ms. Lord: It is almost impossible to answer that hypothetical question because that is not the reality. They own over 300 companies in the province, and that greatly exacerbates the press monopoly problem.
If you want to get into hypotheticals, in any press monopoly situation, a company that owns a number of newspapers should not also own other companies in other economic sectors, and then the problem would not be so big. The problem in terms of diversity and plurality of opinions would be there too, except that here the problem is exacerbated because the freedom of the press in New Brunswick belongs almost exclusively now to Irving. In France, being the intellectual country that it is, this situation is written about and discussed extensively, like nowhere else in the world. A media expert by the name of Serge Alimi says flat out that freedom of expression now belongs to those who own it. So Irving owns freedom of expression through its newspapers, and controls everything that is said, and more importantly, not said. That is also part of the problem. All of the blind spots, all of the unheard voices, are important, at times even more important than what is said, and yesterday, that really came out in the presentations. It is all of the unknowns that cannot be discussed in New Brunswick and that affect a large part of the provincial economy. And we all know that the economy is not a negligible facet of any society.
[English]
Senator Tkachuk: Are they a monopoly without all these other interests? Do the newspapers have different editorials, or are all of the editorials the same in all of the newspapers? Do they have differences of opinion amongst themselves? Is there any evidence that they have that freedom?
[Translation]
Ms. Lord: Evidence that they have that freedom? Well, there are three different editorial teams for the three dailies, but in the past two years, since Irving started acquiring more weeklies, what has happened, and is happening elsewhere too, is that the Irving Group has standardized the editorial content of its weeklies. The editorial writer for one of the weeklies, in the Miramichi area, became the editorial writer for all of the weeklies that belong to Irving. We have seen this phenomenon elsewhere in Canada, where an attempt was made to impose a single editorial on newspapers with a common owner, and the person chosen at the time of the agreement of purchase and sale of the newspapers did not last very long. He resigned. So for weeklies, there has been a standardization of editorial positions. For dailies, clearly, there are three editorial teams, there are three journalists at the legislative assembly but the fact remains that in some cases, they will say the same thing, and in other cases, they will take different positions. The dailies position themselves in terms of their readership. For example, the Moncton Times & Transcript is very Moncton-centric, whereas the Telegraph-Journal, which holds itself out to be a provincial newspaper, has a vision and tone that is a bit more province-wide when it comes to the positions it takes. The Daily Gleaner is closer, if you will, to the provincial political machine, so it is a bit more political, and the Telegraph-Journal covers that ground too.
Yesterday, my counterpart, who is a journalism professor at l'Université Saint-Thomas, and former journalist at the Telegraph-Journal, said that one of the things he noticed in the newsroom in St. John, was how pronounced the self- censorship was. And he even said that the self-censorship was even greater among the bosses, the senior editors. They felt it much more, and you could even go further. You can talk about self-censorship, and you can even talk about internalized censorship, that is, it gets to the point that journalists are no longer even aware of it, and so they look for scoops elsewhere. They know where they are not to go looking for stories. So they look for them elsewhere, they revel in other stories, and eventually lose sight of the fact that they are practicing self-censorship. The censorship is internalized, and I think that this is a universal phenomenon of press monopolies. It is not exclusive to Irving, and it is the same for other press conglomerates.
[English]
Senator Tkachuk: I am asking you questions on the other ownership because I come from Saskatchewan, a province that has the same situation in the sense that we have always been a monopoly province. It was the Siftons, the Thomsons and then it was Conrad Black who owned almost all the dailies in the province. Now it is CanWest. I do not remember the debate about whether they were a monopoly or not because they were not involved in any other businesses outside of that.
Then, of course, there is television: CTV and CanWest. There are also a whole bunch of weeklies and radio stations that are owned by different people.
I want to talk about community radio because we have not had any testimony on that subject. How does it work? Is it funded by the province or by the federal government through Heritage Canada? How is it set up? Is it set up as a co- op? Perhaps you could tell us a little bit community radio and how it is set up corporately.
[Translation]
Ms. Lord: It starts with a federal government grant. Then there are networks that become almost self-sufficient through advertising, despite an advertising quota. For example, here, very close to Moncton, in Shediac, there is radio station CJSE, which is an unprecedented success in Canada. Proportionately, all languages combined, it is the radio station with the highest ratings in Canada for the audience it serves. No radio station reaches its audience like CJSE does.
Obviously, it is a not-for-profit station, so no money is made with this kind of radio, but it is a station that breaks even and its success is so great that the CRTC had to agree to depart from its policy and grant a second licence to CJSE to create a more urban community radio station in the Moncton area, in Dieppe, right near here. The success is so great because it is the first time that the Acadian community has had programming in its language, in this network of community radio stations here in New Brunswick, but also in Nova Scotia and Newfoundland.
There are still some French-language private radio stations in New Brunswick. There is of course Radio-Canada, but the language standards and content are not the same. The purpose of community radio stations is to tailor the service to the community. Research has been done on, among other things, CJSE and CKRO, which is the community radio station for the Acadian Peninsula, and another real success in this region. Acadians suffer from a so-called language insecurity, and they often feel that they do not speak their language well enough. That is not necessarily true, but these are people who have been exposed for a very long time to nothing but Radio-Canada, with language standards that are completely different from those of the region. Clearly, that gives individuals living in a minority setting even more of a complex about their own language, and CJSE, in just ten years, has virtually turned the situation around. People are now taking part in open-line broadcasts and flea-markets in their language and they are so happy to hear themselves. Before, they were invisible, now they see themselves, and community radio stations have raised the visibility of these communities.
[English]
Senator Tkachuk: Are the radio stations governed by a community board? Is there an annual meeting?
Ms. Lord: Yes.
Senator Tkachuk: It would be operated like a non-profit entity, but they would have to make a profit or otherwise the radio station could be replaced, right?
Ms. Lord: Yes.
Senator Tkachuk: Thank you.
Senator Trenholme Counsell: My first reaction is one of sadness. I attended the announcement of the money for the two schools of journalism. I was there as a friend of the Honourable Roméo LeBlanc and his family, not the Irving family. I thought it was something very positive. I thought it was good news. I would never have sensed that there could be this fear. You are a professor there, and I do not remember if you were there that day.
[Translation]
Ms. Lord: No, I was not invited to the announcement.
Senator Trenholme Counsell: Is that the reason for your reaction? I am sorry, but drawing up the list was not my responsibility. I do not want to appear to be defending anyone, but I had a sense that day that the money was going equally, equally to both of our universities with media studies, in the field of journalism.
Today, we have something quite different; I find it entirely appropriate and very touching to have funds from here dedicated to a former Acadian journalist and governor general. Maybe that is my opinion, but I listened with sadness. I want to ask a couple of things, and they are related to the media. First, this is not the first time that the Irving family, the capitalists, have been involved with the University of Moncton. It seems to me that Mr. J.K. Irving is currently co- chairing the campaign with Mr. Losier?
Ms. Lord: That is correct.
Senator Trenholme Counsell: Is that a good thing or not?
Ms. Lord: This poses a problem for the Acadian community. It is not that the Acadian community wants to close ranks, but it is important that we view the problem in an academic setting. This is a phenomenon that is widespread nationally. Because of the paucity of the federal government's financial support of universities, they must turn more and more to private investment, and so a growing number of corporations are showing an interest in buying chairs, and we see this happening now at the University of Moncton.
Not too long ago I read an article in The Globe and Mail, discussing the fact that the schools, the MBA programs offered in the administration faculties, et cetera, were auctioning their names to the highest bidder. So now universities are being marketed, and that poses a real problem because they should remain neutral places where criticism and freedom of expression are possible. Just to give you an example, a member of the Irving family will be a member of the advisory committee managing the journalism chair. Who will be the other members? The university rector who accepted the donation, the vice-rector, one of my vice-rectors at university, two individuals appointed by the rector — that makes five — and then there is just the director of the department, who is on contract. So what does that mean? Irving has a say as to who will or will not be invited to improve the education of the students.
This is where the problem lies and this is not happening only in journalism but in other departments as well. There is a chair at Laval University referred to as the Bell Globe chair, and Floriant Sauvageau holds the position. When Bell Globe approached the university to make a donation and create this chair, the university said: “Yes, okay, but you will not sit on the advisory committee.” Bell Globe agreed not to be a member of this committee, because the university argued that “We are the professionals, we know how to run university chairs and we would be unable to do this and keep all of our integrity if you are there.” What is interesting about the Laval University chair is that it is a chair of scientific journalism, which is not really Bell Globe's niche. However, it is through reporting and scientific articles that we gain a better understanding of the issues, including environmental challenges. Bell Globe has therefore felt it necessary to train French-speaking students in order to develop their skills in scientific journalism. And that is the difference. So there are different ways of doing business. Laval University understood how to protect itself and the interests of Bell Globe were not as flagrantly obvious as far as the donation was concerned. You could say that the self- interest of the donation was not so prevalent.
Senator Trenholme Counsell: Ms. Lord, do you have the same concerns about the donations made by Bill Gates and the McCain family? Bill Gates recently gave millions of dollars to every university throughout the province, and the McCain family, on the advice of Mr. Harrison McCain, was very involved in the life of the University of Moncton. I would also like to mention, as an anglophone, that the Imbeault family contributes to Mount Allison University and, of course, to the University of Moncton. So there are two things here: it is money, but also as far as I am concerned, as a New Brunswicker, and for the benefit of the other provinces, I think that throughout society today we have fewer fears and a greater sense of sharing.
[English]
There is no question that there is a concern in New Brunswick about the media, but on the other hand, L'Acadie Nouvelle does have very large advertisements and accepts them from Kent. I do read L'Acadie. I am trying to think of others.
We are not two solitudes. I think that you share the same concerns as many New Brunswickers about the media. Your fear is epitomized by the chair of journalism, and that perhaps is very significant.
[Translation]
Ms. Lord: I do not quite agree with you, Senator Trenholme Counsell. This is not the first time that I have ever given my opinion on the monopoly of the press, and I did so well before the creation of the chairs in journalism, which is why I was not invited to the announcement. So this is not a reaction with respect to the chair. As far as I am concerned, the Irving Chair of Journalism in my program is a poisoned gift, but I am not telling you that we will not be able to do anything with the $45,000. I hope that we will be able to do interesting things, except that there is a truly upsetting problem with respect to the ethics and integrity of the faculty because we teach, in our courses, the practice of journalism, and sometimes we joke that we train students so they can then be retrained once they hit the labour market. We also give courses where we analyze content, where we analyze the discourse in the newspapers and media coverage, and, as well, this whole phenomenon of concentration in the press. We make our students aware of the situation facing them when they enter the job market. So, on the one hand, we take money from one of the largest press monopolies that exists on Canadian geopolitical territory, and on the other hand, we tell them: “Ah, press monopolies are very bad for freedom of expression.” The left hand does one thing while the right does another. It is very difficult. Is it worth $45,000 per year?
[English]
Senator Munson: There seems to be this great divide in New Brunswick. With all the complaints we hear about the Irvings, has anyone ever suggested to the Irvings or their newspapers that perhaps there should be a French voice in the English-language newspapers?
Ms. Lord: There is.
Senator Munson: Is there with respect to columns and editorials?
Ms. Lord: Yes, there is.
Senator Munson: There are other papers, particularly the Moncton Times. I am talking about columns, editorials, news stories and an alternative approach to journalism in these English-language papers. I am sure that it has been thought of, but is anyone buying into that suggestion?
[Translation]
Ms. Lord: You could liken what is happening at the University of Moncton to a dialogue that is starting to happen. I think that there is a dialogue going on between the Irving family and the Acadian community, particularly through the university. This is another way of doing this. It is not that the Acadian community wants to close its ranks, and I do not think that the Irvings want to shut themselves off from the Acadian community. Quite the opposite. For the past two and a half years, they have been buying up Acadian newspapers. We can see that they want to speak increasingly to an Acadian public, and they are taking concrete action to do this. But why do they want to take up so much space? That is where we need to ask the question. It is to become even bigger.
This morning, I was talking to my former boss, Claude Bourque, of Radio-Canada, and I told him that I would be quoting him. He told me: “These are sharks in an aquarium.” That says it all. That is how you have to look at what is happening. That is exactly what is happening. You saw it yesterday, the fish that were eaten by the sharks.
That is what the concerns are all about. We see them getting bigger and bigger. If, for example, Mr. Irving, who is the co-chair of the University of Moncton funding campaign, were to make a donation to the music department, we could talk about philanthropy or corporate patronage. But in addition to the chair of journalism, the University of Moncton also has an Irving Chair of Environment. We have music, fine arts and theatre at the University of Moncton as well. We know that McCain is deeply interested in the arts in New Brunswick. This is commendable. The people recognize their interest, appreciate it and find it generous. We can see that their gestures are selfless. But we can no longer talk about selfless acts when we talk about chairs of the environment and a chair of journalism. You would have to be naïve to think this was the case. These are not donations with no strings attached.
[English]
Senator Munson: You seem to have a problem within the Acadian community. You talked about L'Acadie Nouvelle being a northeastern New Brunswick paper and that the people there feel more comfortable with the newspaper; yet, here in Moncton, there is not that same love affair with the newspaper. A trust fund was set up to make this paper viable. Would it be possible to have another trust fund set up to establish a French-language newspaper in a predominantly French-language environment such as Moncton-Dieppe to compete against L'Acadie Nouvelle, or would that be like cutting your own throat?
[Translation]
Ms. Lord: Let us say that the exercise has already taken place. There has already been an attempt to have a francophone newspaper in Moncton, which was called le Matin, and a trust fund was established by the government of the day in order to set up that newspaper. When le Matin breathed its last breath, the trust fund remained, pending, and obviously, negotiations took place with L'Acadie Nouvelle which, at the time, was strictly a regional paper covering the northeastern part of the province. This was before it became a provincial paper and before the trust fund was used, as the people from L'Acadie Nouvelle explained yesterday, to distribute the newspaper throughout the province.
When you compare the press run of L'Acadie Nouvelle and the Times & Transcript, in the bestcase scenario, 3,000 copies of L'Acadie Nouvelle are sold daily in the southeast, whereas over 15,000 Acadians subscribe to the Times & Transcript. The number may even be close to 17,000 or 18,000, and so L'Acadie Nouvelle is often accused of being a southeastern paper. Of course the paper is published in Caraquet and is loyal to its Acadian Peninsula readership. Yesterday, they said 80 per cent of their readership is rural whereas Moncton is really an urban region. The Acadian readership of Moncton does not really identify with L'Acadie Nouvelle, therefore they subscribe to the Times & Transcript, which is Moncton-centric.
One question remains; is it viable for Acadia to have two papers? I am not an expert in administration and marketing and could not say.
[English]
Senator Munson: You quoted the French journalist Jean-François Kahn. I never thought I would see the word “communism” this morning, but he did say and you talked about it taking on a clear meaning in New Brunswick, that with this Irving empire, we are reinventing communism, albeit on a private basis. To combat this term in dealing with what is a monopoly here, you suggested a media watch organization. What kind of teeth would a media watch organization have to monitor the situation? You suggested that it should be located right next to the Irving chairs in journalism studies. You were being sarcastic, were you not?
[Translation]
Ms. Lord: Yes, it is to allow for balance, because we live in a free country, therefore we would have both.
[English]
Senator Munson: What kind of teeth would it have and how would it operate?
[Translation]
Ms. Lord: Media observatories are recent creations, the most developed being France's. For now, the French entity publishes a monthly newsletter on the Internet, but this is also sent to subscribers who wish to know more. For example, if one finds that a news report has presented disinformation, or that there is an angle that was not covered, or that such and such a person from a given field should have been interviewed, then one could communicate with the monitoring group and they would investigate.
What kind of teeth will these media observatories have? It all depends on the means they will have at their disposal to spread their message, as well as some moral strength, that is to become a moral authority in the country so that their oversight becomes an embarrassment, in order to force the stakeholders and the press to be self-regulating; that is to say to have more self-discipline in terms of integrity and social responsibility, something which more often than not is lacking. These entities are young and are still developing. It is a new citizen-based power. That is what you must understand. It is the power of the people. That is why I wanted to talk a bit about community radio stations, which, with government support, allow for a certain presence without government interference. We therefore provide funds and ultimately, the community manages these grants to be able to hear themselves.
The media observatory could organize itself in a similar way. They could receive government funding, but I saw that in France, they also appeal to institutions and organizations for donations; they can be citizens' groups, journalists' associations or individuals. There can therefore be several funding streams, but it is critical that this authority remain independent and at arm's length. I believe that in terms of Canada's journalistic output, we have reached a point where for all kinds of reason, there is such a concentration in the media that they must be “observed”.
We have always believed that the media were there to defend people's rights and freedoms, but we are seeing more and more that there is a lack of ethics. One need only turn to the CRTC decision regarding CHOI radio in Quebec City. The decision against the CHOI host 2 weeks ago is part of the new phenomena in Canada. It is upsetting and has been poorly received by the media because we are not used to being reprimanded in such a way. But there are occasional ethical lapses, and this is where a media observatory could oversee and review complaints and be able to say: “Yes, this was lacking, and there was a blind spot. It should have been dealt with otherwise, et cetera.” This would hugely simplify the task. The observatory must be given the means to act as a moral authority. What we must not forget is that the media observatory could have two components, that is a national one because there are media outlets that work nationally, and a provincial one because there are provincial situations that would warrant a division within the media observatory. New Brunswick is one and Quebec is another.
The Chairman: I would like to come back to my first question on corporate philanthropy; it seems to me that the saying “They are damned if they do, and they are damned if they don't” is fitting in this case. Twenty or 30 years ago, I remember hearing people criticize the Irving family for not making donations and not doing enough to improve the quality of journalism in the province. Now they are making donations, yet they are under fire again. Would you not say that it is better to get a little bit of money from the very people who do well out of journalism in New Brunswick?
Ms. Lord: It remains to be seen how all of this will play out, it is not yet underway. It remains to be seen what choices the advisory committee will make in terms of which guest speakers will be invited to speak to our journalists and future journalists.
Clearly, there are two schools of thought, and as you have seen this morning, Philip Lee and I do not subscribe to the same point of view, a situation which is very healthy. It is good that students will be exposed to two different schools of thought, but one must ask to which side the advisory committee will lean? When it comes to choosing guest speakers to speak to my students, will they choose people who think like Philip Lee and the Irving family, or will they also invite people like Jean-François Kahn? That is the question. Will the Irvings allow Jean-François Kahn or Ignacio Ramonez to speak to the students?
The Chairman: Time will tell.
Ms. Lord: Absolutely. We will have to wait and see.
The Chairman: I am sure that you will be keeping a close eye on the situation, will you not?
Ms. Lord: Absolutely.
The Chairman: Do keep us informed.
Ms. Lord: I would like to raise another point in answer to your question; it concerns the internships. I am aware that this is a two-year pilot project, but our students have to do an internship as part of their training, they receive academic credits for it, and I hope that this decision will lead other media outlets to follow suit. For example, this year, I have been unable to place an intern at Radio-Canada. Why? I have one student who will be working at L'Étoile, which belongs to Irving, and another who will be working at Hebdo Chaleur, which also belongs to Irving. They have chosen these placements because they will be paid $10 an hour; Radio-Canada being Radio-Canada is highly unionized, obviously, our students cannot go on the payroll. I therefore believe that we must revisit the issue, and perhaps negotiate with the unions so that Radio-Canada can offer a paid internship.
The Chairman: Exactly. In the past, I have had to work with a union which refused to accept unpaid interns; they said “You would be taking advantage of free labour, which would be detrimental to our members; accept students if you so wish, but pay them.”
Ms. Lord: Yes. But what often happens with Radio-Canada internships is that the student will do the same work as the journalist he is shadowing for the day, but his end-product will not be broadcast.
The Chairman: Ah, yes.
Ms. Lord: The student does the same work nevertheless. However, the student's work will be evaluated by people from Radio-Canada, and if it is accepted and broadcast, the student will be paid, and the unions will also see it. There are two sides to this.
The Chairman: It is a detail that can be important. Community radio has proved to be something of a success story, has it not?
Ms. Lord: Yes.
The Chairman: It is important that people be able to talk to one another. But strictly in terms of news information, are community radio stations employing journalists?
Ms. Lord: Yes. Some have greater means than others. CJSE has two journalists, which is not so bad for a radio station with limited resources. At a national level, CJSE also works with the Alliance des radios communautaires, and it has a sort of news agency in Ottawa which produces news bulletins that CJSE subsequently broadcasts. At the moment, the Association de presse francophone has got its back up because of Radio-Canada, or as they call it “Radio-Canada Montréal”. In reaction to the omnipresence of Montreal on Radio-Canada's airwaves, the APF decided a year and a half ago, for example, that a CRTC decision on CHOI was a Quebec news item, and did not, therefore, broadcast it on community radio stations across the country. However, New Brunswickers have the right to know what is going on, because the CRTC is a national body, and it made a decision which could have repercussions for Canada as a whole. Although their system is a little clumsy, it nevertheless has to be recognized that they have managed to set up an Ottawa newsroom, which they supplement with local journalists based in New Brunswick who provide local, regional and provincial news stories for their news bulletins.
The Chairman: Is the mission they have taken upon themselves to inform their public especially about things that directly affect the Acadian community or is their mission to provide complete information?
Ms. Lord: It is very focused on the Acadian community.
The Chairman: So, for information sources in the traditional sense, if something is going on in Iraq, people do not turn to community radio stations.
Ms. Lord: The national press gallery in Ottawa will take care of international news.
The Chairman: Also.
Ms. Lord: Yes, we will have the headlines in the dispatches. The role here is to give more regional information. Because people who listen to the radio would not get it otherwise.
The Chairman: That is actually normal. Any local media must serve the local audience.
Ms. Lord: Yes.
The Chairman: Your presentation was very focused on the Acadian cause — and being a member of a minority community myself, I understand this very well — but our mandate is also to think in terms of information as such. So they are trying to fill, I would not actually say a void, in that part of the market?
Ms. Lord: Yes, and in any case, that is a characteristic trait of the Acadian press in general and it is also its fault, in other words if you really want to know what is going on in the province, you have to go over to the anglophone side. Just to give you an example, yesterday, for the coverage of these hearings on CBC, you had the professor from Mount Allison, but on Radio Canada, you had L'Acadie Nouvelle. So, that is typical. The Radio Canada journalist did tell us that there had been seven or eight presentations, but the only one we saw on the news clip were the people from L'Acadie Nouvelle because, of course, that speaks to the audience.
The Chairman: Which speaks French?
Ms. Lord: Yes, exactly, except that if you are always focusing on language, then you are deprived of information and that is a trait common to both linguistic communities. Yesterday, during the presentations, we witnessed the lack of knowledge of some anglophones about what is happening on the francophone side of the province. One of them even stated that Irving is not creating any new newspapers. That is false, because L'Étoile and La République are both newspapers created by Irving. Of course, he was talking about what he knew, his anglophone world, but the situation is the same on both sides.
The Chairman: That is what is called the two solitudes.
Ms. Lord: Yes.
[English]
Senator Tkachuk: How many reporters are here in the room today? One , two, three, four, five, six, seven.
The Chairman: Terrific.
Senator Tkachuk: I find it ironic that in Vancouver, Regina and Moncton, where supposedly we had information that there were monopoly pals, we have seen the most reporters and, I would say, have had the most coverage of any other place we have visited.
The Chairman: In Moncton, yes.
Senator Tkachuk: In Regina as well. Vancouver was pretty good considering it is a big city, compared to say Toronto or Montreal where we would have had to throw a hand grenade to get attention. I know we are talking about a monopoly situation here, but we have had coverage in Moncton.
I do not know how we reconcile the fact that we heard all those complaints yesterday from people talking about the Irving papers, yet our hearings are all over the Irving papers this morning. We were not in the papers where there is supposedly competition.
The Chairman: We did not get a whole lot of coverage in Vancouver.
Senator Tkachuk: Well, I don't know about that. I was on radio; you were on radio. We received some coverage in the newspapers and we had one television station. For a big city, I am saying that we did not do badly.
In Regina, where one person owns all the dailies, we had coverage on all the TV stations and a couple of the radio stations. We had coverage on CBC Radio and in the Leader-Post. Here, in Moncton and Dieppe, we have seven reporters. I do not know if we have ever had that many reporters present at any one of our stops. How would you explain that?
[Translation]
Ms. Lord: That is easily explained.
[English]
Senator Tkachuk: Are they interested in the monopoly?
[Translation]
Ms. Lord: Yes, exactly.
[English]
Senator Tkachuk: Where are they all from if they are all —
[Translation]
Ms. Lord: Because it is a very problematic situation, it does get more attention. We were so happy to be welcoming you to Moncton because that gives us a forum to discuss this and that is something that does not happen often.
And when you say there is a lot of coverage, I will show a little occupational bias; you have to see how it is covered in Irving newspapers. I will give you an example. Two years ago, when Irving bought the Madawaska, I was interviewed by several media to discuss what was at stake. That was the first serious and concerning intrusion by Irving in the world of Acadian media, and this was an institution that was almost a one hundred years old, and one which carried a lot of editorial weight with the Acadian community. The Madawaska was an editorial reference. During my sixth interview of the day, I was live on Radio Canada television and I said that I still had not been contacted by any journalist working for Irving's newspapers. So I went back to the office and the first call I got was from a Telegraph- Journal reporter. But you then had to see how all this was dealt with in the Telegraph-Journal. I got the first paragraph in the article, no problem, but I was in the “Business” section. I was not in the news section, nor even in the public affairs one. There were the comments made by the managing editor of the Telegraph-Journal, and he was saying that this only made him smile and that he was totally amazed to find out that we might think that Irving had any kind of influence on the pressroom because no Irving ever showed up physically in the press room. That is true, as far as it goes, but there can be a psychological presence. Then, J.D. Irving was interviewed. So I did get to express myself, but the text was constructed so as to demolish everything. That is fine, because that is what freedom of expression is all about and that is the kind of debate you have in society. Nevertheless, it was two against one in a newspaper belonging to Irving. The reporter quoted me very well, no problem, but you have to look at how it was presented, at the context.
The Chairman: We made page one of this morning's Telegraph-Journal.
[English]
Senator Munson: It is the first time we made the front page.
[Translation]
The Chairman: And we did not make page one of L'Acadie Nouvelle, but there was a rather major report in the Moncton Times and Transcript and I have not seen the Gleaner yet. I do not know if the Gleaner covered us or not, but in any case please share your thoughts with us.
[English]
Senator Tkachuk: I believe we have a monopoly here, but I do not know if we have a media monopoly. Do we have a media monopoly here? In other words, in Moncton itself, we may have a newspaper that is owned by the Irvings. Who owns the radio stations? We have CBC. Who owns that? Is that a private radio station? How many are there?
[Translation]
Ms. Lord: I know that Irving owns three radio stations in New Brunswick, but there are also other radio stations. The private radio stations are not information sources of record so if we are talking about the quality of information for New Brunswick's population, I think that the issue is there. If we want to have radio, that is all well and good, but my concern as a journalism professor is the quality of information the New Brunswick population is entitled to. What should not be forgotten is that if, for example, we take the public media, radio and television, we do not have access, through those media, to what is called opinion journalism. What newspapers offer is something to think about and some sort of food for thought about the major issues in society. When I go to work, I read several newspapers and what interests me most is not the reporting, it is the opinion pieces, in other words to read about the reaction to what went on last night, for example, in Canada. And I find that in the editorials and the columns. There are exceptions, but the newspapers are the ones that offer that source that can give us food for our own thoughts as citizens and if you want to talk about information, or sources of information, that where I say that there is a monopoly in New Brunswick, beyond the shadow of a doubt.
[English]
Senator Tkachuk: The Irvings, of course, are business people, so they are going to buy profitable ventures. I am not defending them; I do not even know them.
[Translation]
Ms. Lord: Me neither.
[English]
Senator Tkachuk: The Competition Bureau, which was established to prevent monopolies, may have a role to play here. Has the Competition Bureau ever been involved in the sale of a newspaper in New Brunswick? It seems to me this is an obvious place for the Competition Bureau to step in.
[Translation]
Ms. Lord: I cannot answer with a degree of certainty, we have not heard anything about it, but that does not mean they are not interested in it. If, where the press is concerned, we compartmentalize Irving sectors of activity and we take the press and their newspapers, totally separate from the rest, then we are missing the boat.
You have to understand Irving owns 300 companies in New Brunswick, and economically speaking, it is a major force in this province. Moreover, in Irving's newspapers you see a lot of advertising by Irving's other companies and the newspaper itself is printed on Irving's own paper. Everything is connected. They are all linked together and help one another. That is the beauty of a family business, except that also means problems for the people who are not part of the big Irving team and it is important to be aware of that. There are people on the outside who do not enjoy the same kind of freedom of expression in New Brunswick.
[English]
Senator Tkachuk: It is always so. There are always people outside.
Ms. Lord: Yes, absolutely.
Senator Tkachuk: Even if there were two owners, what would be the difference?
[Translation]
Ms. Lord: It certainly is not an Irving exclusive and it is not a matter of demonizing the Irvings themselves, but you have to see the body corporate represented by the Irving empire, and as you said yourself, these are business people and they will look out for Irving's interests.
[English]
Senator Trenholme Counsell: Professor, in our cross-country hearings we have heard a great deal about a very few companies owning vast numbers of newspapers and media outlets. What we have here in New Brunswick is a little different, but we have heard so much about CanWest Global and about other companies. I should not pick out any names, but this is a phenomenon that we have encountered across the land. I would not want it said here today that this situation is unique to New Brunswick or unique to the Irving family.
[Translation]
It seems to me that Moncton, Dieppe and Riverview embody New Brunswick society. Could you provide us with any recent examples of Acadians being ill-served by the Times & Transcript?
[English]
I am not talking about the past because we all have our past.
[Translation]
Have there been instances of the Times & Transcript failing to provide an adequate reflection and coverage of the culture, values, news stories and local activities of, for example, towns such as Shédiac and Dieppe, Bouctouche or the village of Memramcook?
Ms. Lord: The Times & Transcript has greatly improved its coverage of Acadian issues; their sales figures attest to this. Physically speaking, the Times & Transcript is far closer than the Acadie Nouvelle to Moncton's Acadian community. Since 1994, when the Congrès mondial acadien was held in southeast New Brunswick, the Times & Transcript has made an effort on this front; indeed, it has made something of a turnaround. I recently read a Times & Transcript special supplement which carried an article on how positive bilingualism was for Moncton. That constitutes a real turnaround for the Times & Transcript.
It should also be understood that the Times & Transcript made an editorial decision when CN closed its Moncton yards. When CN closed its yards, people thought that the end of the world was nigh: thousands worked at the yards; thousands of jobs were indirectly related to the yards; and it was then that the Times & Transcript made its position known. As a Moncton-centric paper, the Times & Transcript helped life get back to normal in Moncton; it believed in Moncton's ability to overcome adversity; and the gamble paid off. Moncton has had an unprecedented economic boom, and the Times & Transcript has been a main player rather than a bystander. Furthermore, a newspaper is within its rights to take such a stand; it is, however, arguably a different scenario for public television. A privately-owned newspaper is entitled to choose to be a main player in a community's resurgence; the Times & Transcript understood the importance of the contribution made by the Acadian community, and that is why people choose to subscribe to the Times & Transcript rather than L'Acadie Nouvelle. It is not the only reason, but it is a reason.
[English]
Senator Trenholme Counsell: So you would give good marks to the Times & Transcript for coverage of the two cultures, the two communities. We think of ourselves as two communities, everyone here in Moncton, Dieppe, Riverview and the region.
Senator Munson: I have an observation to make. I believe in building relationships. We see the Canadian Association of Journalists getting together for seminars and working together as a team, and language does not matter. Maybe I am just dreaming, but I have the idea of people in the newsroom of the Saint John Telegraph walking into l'Acadie Nouvelle or vice versa, the idea that people on editorial boards actually understand each other because at the end of the day it is the province and New Brunswickers who will win.
I am from New Brunswick, as is my wife Ginette. I do not want this to sound as if we do not all get along, but there is an opportunity here to conduct seminars at both your university and Mr. Lee's university so that the new generation of journalists can interact with one another and better understand each other.
[Translation]
Ms. Lord: Nobody is against discussion, but when you have a giant on one side and a dwarf on the other, and the giant happens to be an ogre, one wonders whether dialogue is truly possible. That is my question. Let us not forget that we are talking about a predator; a fact which was corroborated by yesterday's witnesses. Mr. Hanley, who sold his four weekly newspapers, described how he had been prey to the predator. The same applies to the Acadie Nouvelle. We heard several testimonies to this effect yesterday.
The Chairman: I would like to ask one last question, Ms. Lord. We have not touched upon Irving's radio stations. Do they offer news coverage or are they just music stations?
Ms. Lord: The Irving group has three private radio stations in the Saint-Jean, Saint-Stephen region in the southwest of the province. I very rarely listen to them, but they are private stations, and they therefore offer little news coverage. They are not the source to which people turn for news coverage.
The Chairman: Several of yesterday's witnesses spoke of the importance of both CBC and Radio-Canada. You have not mentioned either; are they important players on the New Brunswick media scene?
Ms. Lord: Yes, they are very important. The reason that the witnesses representing the English-language press spent more time on the subject is because they have Irving on the one side, and the CBC on the other; the CBC is, therefore, indispensable. Obviously, as I said, we do have Radio-Canada, but we also have the Acadie Nouvelle. In answer to your question, yes, Radio-Canada is indispensable, we could not do without it as it is well resourced. Earlier, one of the senators remarked upon the number of journalists present, and yesterday I counted four from Radio-Canada.
The Chairman: Are you referring to both French-language and English-language radio and television?
Ms. Lord: Just for French average, there were four from Radio-Canada, but they were representing different services. That is something which is sometimes misunderstood by the public. Radio-Canada has radio, RDI, and television; four groups operating under the Radio-Canada umbrella, but each with its own service. You have to understand that no one journalist could adequately service all of Radio-Canada's news outlets.
However, it would be impossible to overstate the importance of Radio-Canada, as it is an example of a press outlet which is well resourced, and which can do things which other outlets cannot. Let us take the example of television: more in-depth reports are allowed, reports on public affairs which last 10 to 12 minutes, in other words, longer than the standard minute and a half with the 10-second clip. If Canada had a media watch organization, a media observatory, I am sure that complaints would be made about Radio-Canada's coverage, but that is a good thing for society. However, the subject at hand is the indispensable role of Radio-Canada; based on what the local team does in a community, it would have to be said that the Acadian community is poorly served by our national network. The Association de presse francophone, which is based in Ottawa, refers to Radio-Canada as Radio-Canada Montreal; Acadia is markedly absent from national programming, both on radio and television. Radio-Canada's television is Montreal-centric, and we suffer as much rom this, if not more, as people in Gaspé and Abitibi. There are two standards: Toronto is not as omnipresent on CBC's airwaves as Montreal is on Radio-Canada's. The situation is very different. The presence of the whole country is felt on the CBC, the voice of the nation is heard; that is not the case with Radio-Canada, and it constitutes a major problem for communities such as ours. That is why community radio is so popular. When I said that the voice of Acadians was being heard for the first time thanks to community radio, it is because it was not being heard on Radio-Canada. Yes, French is spoken on Radio-Canada; but the voice of Acadia was not heard.
The Chairman: Thank you very much, Ms. Lord.
Ms. Lord: Thank you very much for allowing me to appear before the committee.
The Chairman: Your presentation was most interesting, and I must say that your candour was quite unforgettable.
Our next witness, Ms. Marcia Enman, is the Director General of Prince Edward Island's French-language newspaper, La Voix Acadienne.
Ms. Marcia Enman, Director General, La Voix Acadienne, As an Individual: Madam Chairwoman, today, on behalf of Prince Edward Island's only French-language newspaper, I would like to share with you some ideas and perspectives on the news media sector. I will endeavour to answer your key questions, but will probably also deal with others in order to broach issues which are currently rendering the very survival of small newspapers, such as our own, a significant challenge.
It is of paramount importance that all Canadians have access to a range of quality news information sources. However, as La Voix Acadienne is the only written source of news information for Acadians and French-speakers on Prince Edward Island, it seems unfair that we have to fight to ensure access to information which is only available in English in the English-language media. On a daily basis, La Voix Acadienne has to ensure that advertisements which appear in English-language newspapers are also published in our only French-language newspaper so that our readers have access to the same information. Time and time again we have to lodge complaints with the Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages which, to our mind, is not set up to deal with advertisements, as it often takes far too long to determine whether the complaint against the advertisement should be upheld. As a result, our readers are unable to have access to the message in French. Another of your categories of proposed questions deals with young people.
At the newspaper La Voix Acadienne, we try to integrate young people because we realize that they are our future readers. We visit francophone schools regularly to make sure that we are covering student activities. We give young people the opportunity to write articles for the newspaper. We must all make sure that young people are given an important place.
At La Voix Acadienne, we cover many sports, which is of great interest to young people. Our reports focus on young athletes who stand out in their discipline; we also cover hockey, either the Junior League Rockets, or the Bantams in the Évangéline region. Each subject is dealt with equally.
It is certainly a challenge to cover events for an entire province. For a small team made up of four full-time employees and one part-time employee, covering remote areas cannot be done quickly. In provinces such as New Brunswick, where there are several newspapers, we do not experience the same situation because there are more newspapers. I am not saying that there is room for a second newspaper in Prince Edward Island. We have enough difficulty sustaining one.
Several of the key questions you provided as a guide are not relevant for our newspaper, La Voix Acadienne. It is certain that in regions that have several newspapers, increasingly concentrated ownership may decrease media diversity. I can even take New Brunswick as an example of a province where one owner owns several newspapers that we have just listed.
I wanted to talk about the technology sector because technological innovations play an important role in the media. Take for example, La Voix Acadienne's printer. The ability to deliver the newspaper through the Internet has opened doors to shopping around for printing companies. For 27 years, we did not have any other choice than to resort to the only printing service in the province. Today, the choices are open and we are now being printed in Caraquet to give our business to fellow Acadians.
Other possibilities are made available through technological innovation; advertising is prepared by big agencies in Montreal and Toronto, and take only a few minutes to be sent to Prince Edward Island. As a weekly newspaper, that facilitates things because very often large advertising campaigns are launched at the last minute.
With respect to the Government of Canada's policy framework, I would like to mention that the newspaper La Voix Acadienne is a non-profit organization that belongs to the community. It is a tool that the community gave itself in order to make itself heard, but above all to remain informed about current events, for the last 29 years.
The newspaper plays an important role and has a considerable responsibility when it comes to developing this minority community. All that to say that very often, through development programs, the Government of Canada refuses to finance the newspaper's projects, citing conflict of interests if it supports newspapers. I do not agree because a newspaper such as La Voix Acadienne should be treated as a non-profit organization and not as a private company.
Regulations to govern such situations would make sure that this type of reasoning would not slow down the flourishing of our communities, which otherwise must experience situations which hinder the development of citizens' rights in Canada. For example, let us take note of the situation in schools. We had to fight all the way to the Supreme Court to obtain our rights and to ensure acceptable infrastructure that our students are entitled to.
We need the Government of Canada to be more open to the development of minority communities. Taking away opportunities from the media, especially non-profit organizations, is to take away an opportunity for the entire community.
[English]
Senator Tkachuk: We have heard from many ethnic, French-language and weekly newspapers across the country. All have had financial trouble, particularly the minority-language newspapers. You can operate as a non-profit organization, but you cannot operate, of course, as a non-profit charitable institution. In the United States, a lot of the major magazines, such as the National Review and, I think, Harper's, actually operate under a charitable institution whereby people can make donations. Do you think that would be helpful to you, because it seems to me the more independent you are, the better you are. This would be a way for you to get funds and another news magazine to get funds. Is that suggestion something that should be contemplated?
[Translation]
Ms. Enman: In May 1990, La Voix Acadienne decided to set up a trust fund. In the beginning, the trust fund had only $300,000 in it, which generated at least $20,000 that was directly used for operations. Since then, it has helped a lot. For a small budget of $230,000, $20,000 represents a lot of money. We would like to see our trust fund grow, to reach the goal of $1 million so we will continue to move in this direction. The fund was set up to assist operations, to avoid deficits, because in the past, we ran deficits of approximately $20,000 a year. The fund helps us make ends meet.
[English]
Senator Tkachuk: Was there a tax credit or a tax deduction for accumulating money in the trust fund, or was it a government trust fund? How did the $1 million get there?
Mme. Enman: The trust fund was a collaboration of the community, the provincial government and the federal government.
Senator Tkachuk: So it was not a tax deductible institution.
Do you receive federal government advertising and, if you do, do you think you get your fair share?
[Translation]
Ms. Enman: Mr. Claude Haché was in the room, and he will probably be able to answer you. For myself, I am the watchdog, if you will, of English-speaking newspapers. I compare what francophones receive in terms of information from the federal government, and I can tell you that I am still obliged to lodge many complaints with the Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages because there are still many departments which need to be made aware of the problem.
The Chairman: Which departments?
Ms. Enman: Would you like me to name them? The Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency. They will make excuses, with respect to deadlines or last-minute campaigns.
The Chairman: But I bet that they never make mistakes when it comes to English-speaking media, they do not forget any of those papers?
Ms. Enman: I do not think the agency forgets them very often. I can tell you that I probably lodge more than 50 complaints per year.
The Chairman: The witness from the Courrier de la Nouvelle-Écosse told us the same thing.
Ms. Enman: We are often compared to the Courrier de la Nouvelle-Écosse.
The Chairman: That is amazing.
Senator Trenholme Counsell: Welcome to New Brunswick.
Ms. Enman: Thank you for inviting us.
Senator Trenholme Counsell: I am still very much interested in the level of cooperation between the three maritime provinces with respect to the Acadian community, and you use the printing press of L'Acadie Nouvelle for your paper, but have you had any discussions on the possibility of increasing cooperation with the Acadie Nouvelle for the entire Acadian population residing in the Maritimes?
Ms. Enman: At the newspaper La Voix Acadienne, we are among the founding members of the Association de la presse francophone; therefore, we have the opportunity to meet all weekly newspapers across Canada outside of Quebec, and we often work in partnership. Whether they be Atlantic newspapers or national Canadian newspapers, we do a lot of training together, and we have had discussions to put together publications. I believe that we have already published a maritime journal together, but we are different. L'Acadie Nouvelle is a daily newspaper, we are a newsweekly. We focus more on what the community considers important. The daily newspaper focuses more on current events whereas the weekly focuses more on what I call “features”, and profiles on people. It is what our readers want, but we still cover current events, though never the events of the day, but rather the events of the week.
When I need advice, I call upon L'Acadie Nouvelle, the Moniteur Acadien in Shediac, or the Courrier de la Nouvelle- Écosse. We help each other out a lot. We prepare projects, we talk to each other, we know each other well.
Senator Trenholme Counsell: But it seems to me that the Saturday edition of L'Acadie Nouvelle is different. In the Saturday edition, there is more coverage of culture, sports, religion, et cetera. I would think that it would be a good idea to make this edition available all across the Maritimes.
Ms. Enman: That is a good suggestion; however, the idea will not be openly embraced in Prince Edward Island, if Acadians from the Island are not included in that edition. Therefore, we must absolutely make sure that each newspaper contributes to putting together the maritime weekender.
Senator Trenholme Counsell: However, at the same time, I appreciate the need and value for Prince Edward Island of having its own weekly newspaper.
Ms. Enman: For now, that is where our energies have to be placed because our newspaper is in a vulnerable position. We have to focus, therefore, on its survival.
[English]
Senator Munson: How many Acadians live in Prince Edward Island?
[Translation]
Ms. Enman: Out of a population of 145,000 to 150,000 residents, there are about 5,000 Acadians.
[English]
Senator Munson: How many subscriptions?
[Translation]
Ms. Enman: One thousand.
[English]
Senator Munson: Does it take government advertising for you to survive?
Ms. Enman: Yes.
Senator Munson: How much? What is the percentage?
[Translation]
Ms. Enman: If I take the figures from the past fiscal year, 40 per cent of our advertising revenue came from the federal government, 30 per cent from the provincial government and 30 per cent from the local market.
[English]
Senator Munson: You heard some of the testimony earlier this morning from a professor at the Université de Moncton and you probably read a bit about surviving in this monopoly environment. Is there something about being in Prince Edward Island that makes it difficult for you to hold on, to keep making sure that the message of the minority is being delivered in a clear and democratic way?
[Translation]
Ms. Enman: Transcontinental's purchase of English-speaking newspapers and the Irving's takeover is something to think about, but I do not think the community will decide to sell the newspaper. However, they might come into Prince Edward Island and start up a bilingual newspaper. There is nothing preventing them from doing so, but we have not seen that occur yet.
[English]
Senator Munson: Do you ever fear that you may be put out of business or be bought out?
[Translation]
Ms. Enman: As I have already said, I do not believe that the community would sell off its only means of written communication, but what is certain is that we fought for our schools, we survived, and we will continue to make sure the newspaper survives.
The Chairman: Are you a weekly?
Ms. Enman: Yes.
The Chairman: Fifty-two weeks per year?
Ms. Enman: Yes, fifty-one.
The Chairman: Fifty-one?
Ms. Enman: We close down for a week at Christmas.
The Chairman: Minus Christmas. How many pages are there, on average?
Ms. Enman: Sixteen to 20 pages, on average.
The Chairman: And how many journalists or employees do you have?
Ms. Enman: One.
The Chairman: One single employee. She must work very hard then.
Ms. Enman: One journalist who produces 20 to 25 articles per week. One journalist, one graphic designer, one manager, and I am responsible for sales, as well as one person who is responsible for accounting, subscriptions and all the rest.
The Chairman: Is the journalist also a photographer?
Ms. Enman: Yes. In addition, she must travel between Souris and Tignish.
The Chairman: I hope that she is very well paid.
Ms. Enman: We are not very well paid because we do not have the means.
The Chairman: Very well, hats off to your one employee.
Ms. Enman: I will pass on the message to her.
The Chairman: Transcontinental is a Quebec-based company which has many French-language resources. Has the company offered you any opportunities to cooperate?
Ms. Enman: Assistance? No, nothing. Within the Association de la presse francophone, there are many newspapers that belong to Transcontinental; therefore, perhaps when it came to training, we were able to benefit from the services of Transcontinental employees.
The Chairman: Through the association?
Ms. Enman: Yes, and through training on advertising and marketing.
The Chairman: Yes, that can be precious. How long has the newspaper been in existence?
Ms. Enman: The newspaper was launched in 1975. It started off as a newsletter and became a weekly newspaper in June 1976. I have been with the paper since 1978.
The Chairman: Oh my God! It is truly your newspaper.
Ms. Enman: It gets into your bones after a while.
The Chairman: Is circulation stable?
Ms. Enman: Yes, circulation is stable. We print 1,000 copies. We have not saturated the market by any means.
The Chairman: One thousand copies for a population of 5,000 is not bad.
Ms. Enman: Yes. It is not bad, but one market we are targeting is the French immersion schools market, so next year, we will be trying to open doors in that area.
The Chairman: Perfect. I forgot to ask you a question. How much does a subscription cost?
Ms. Enman: There are different rates. On Prince Edward Island, it costs $32, $40 for other Canadian provinces, and $125 for overseas subscriptions.
The Chairman: Do you have any overseas subscriptions?
Ms. Enman: Yes, I have five overseas subscriptions.
The Chairman: Very good. Can you leave us with one or several copies of your paper?
Ms. Enman: I am leaving you several copies as well as one copy of a special edition that we published on events that took place on Prince Edward Island during our 400th anniversary last year.
The Chairman: Thank you very much, Ms. Enman. I asked the Courrier de la Nouvelle-Écosse to send us a few copies of complaints lodged on the issue of advertising. I would ask you to do the same thing.
Ms. Enman: Are you putting together a file?
The Chairman: Yes, because obviously the goal of our investigation is to review public policy, specifically federal policy. That issue is a part of federal policy.
Ms. Enman: Certainly, I would be pleased to do so.
The Chairman: Thank you very much.
The committee is adjourned.