Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Aboriginal Peoples
Issue 12 - Evidence - Meeting of December 6, 2006
OTTAWA, Wednesday, December 6, 2006
The Standing Senate Committee on Aboriginal Peoples met this day at 6:20 p.m. to examine and report on the involvement of Aboriginal communities and businesses in economic development activities in Canada.
Senator Gerry St. Germain (Chairman) in the chair.
[English]
The Chairman: Good evening. I am Senator St. Germain. I am from the province of British Columbia, and I have the privilege of chairing the Standing Senate Committee on Aboriginal Peoples.
We have been provided a reference from the Senate, and we have been authorized to examine and report on the involvement of Aboriginal communities and businesses in economic development activities in Canada.
We have with us this evening the vice chair of the committee, Senator Sibbeston from the Northwest Territories; Senator Hubley from Prince Edward Island; and Senator Watt from Northern Quebec.
On our panel this evening we have before us Mr. Andrew Popko, who is vice-president of Aboriginal relations with EnCana Corporation. Welcome to the committee. You bring with you a great reputation from a great corporation led by a great man named Mr. Gwyn Morgan, a good friend of mine. I appreciate that you have taken the time to be here.
As well, from the Forest Products Association of Canada we have Mr. Avrim Lazar, president and CEO, and one of his directors, Mr. Andrew DeVries. Welcome.
Andrew Popko, Vice-President, Aboriginal Relations, EnCana Corporation: Good evening. Before I begin, I want to provide the main reason I am here today. I was very fortunate a couple of years ago to be selected as one of very few Canadians to come to Ottawa to experience a 15-month secondment at the Privy Council Office under the building bridges program, a vision under Alex Himelfarb, the clerk at the time. The program allowed private sector executives to get a glimpse of the world of the public sector service and a better understanding of how the mechanics of government work.
I was fortunate to work at PCO in the Aboriginal Affairs Secretariat that worked on the Kelowna agreement. The clerk at the time also provided me opportunities to job shadow deputy ministers and assistant deputy ministers at Treasury Board, Industry Canada, Corrections Canada, the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, and border security. At the same time, a member of the public service was able to work at EnCana for the same amount of time. As a result of this program, I was able to share our corporate insight with the people in Ottawa and build many bridges with many people I now call friends. The building bridges program will continue to the fellowship program, and I endorse it 100 per cent as a great experience for Canadians to experience the public sector.
I would like to acknowledge the researcher on this committee, one of the friends I met here. She learned about EnCana and the Aboriginal program. I believe that is one of the reasons I am here. Thank you very much.
I will talk about three major issues. First is an urgent need to elevate and recognize Aboriginal economic development as a tool as vital to the future of Canada and Canada's Aboriginal people as the transfer payments and federal dollars that currently flow to social programs. The second issue is an urgent requirement to clarify the roles and responsibilities of the private sector and those of the federal government so that confrontational, unproductive, costly and unnecessary impediments to Aboriginal economic development can be minimized. Third, I will talk about the pressing need for simplicity in how federal Aboriginal programs and departments can communicate, assess and engage with the private sector.
Starting with the first issue, the economic stasis and isolation that characterizes the lives of Aboriginal people who dwell on reserves in our country is wilfully unacceptable. The current system created over 100 years ago has done little, if anything, to improve quality of life or opportunity. Many venture to say it has done the opposite.
The longer an Aboriginal person lives on a reserve, the more likely he or she is to be on welfare. There are 41.5 per cent of on-reserve Aboriginals on welfare compared to only 22 per cent of Aboriginal people who live off reserve. A curious funding imbalance reinforces this reality. Thirty per cent of all Canadian Aboriginal people who live on reserve receive 88 per cent of the federal government programs. The 50 per cent of Aboriginal people who live out of the cities receive only 3.5 per cent.
Further, one examines the amount of money the federal government spends annually on Aboriginal programs. Depending on the numbers and the sources we look at, we hear that roughly $9 billion is spent. The portion directed towards economic development is somewhere between $35 million and $60 million.
Why does the federal government spend so much money maintaining what amounts to a massive ongoing social assistance program and so little in comparison on economic development initiatives that generate self-sustaining wealth, ongoing economic opportunities, as well as renewed self-esteem and self-reliance?
From an industry perspective and experience, economic development initiatives are the key to Aboriginal participation in the economic mainstream in Canada. Economic development deserves greater focus, funding and facilitation.
The second issue is the clarification of roles. The energy sector is one of the largest single contributors of jobs and business of any sector in the country when it comes to Aboriginal communities. At EnCana, we spend about $140 million alone directly on goods and services with 129 different companies owned or operated by Aboriginals. Our industry recognizes the value of being a good neighbour, of looking for innovative ways to work together to create meaningful, long-term differences.
However, too often industry gets pulled into the middle of political issues on land claims, revenue sharing and specific rights questions, which are issues that belong entirely with the federal government. Political and constitutional matters are best left to the parties directly affected. Industry should be at the table to discuss how we will reduce the impact of our activities on the environment and how we will maximize the possibilities for economic opportunities and participation for the people in the communities where we have an operating interest.
EnCana maintains that an effective and lasting resolution of Aboriginal issues is possible only through open and proactive dialogue. Our company is committed to working through government-sanctioned processes created to identify and consider third-party interests on Crown land.
We also maintain that creating a higher degree of certainty around the process of oil and gas development and Aboriginal rights is necessary for progressive oil and gas development in Canada.
I will show you a prop. Everyone knows this is a Rubik's Cube. We look at this as representing 282 different programs run by approximately 16 different departments in the federal government. Every department most probably identifies itself as having something positive it can do for Aboriginal communities. It believes it is doing the right thing within the government and it can deliver.
Unfortunately, this is what corporate Canada sees in Aboriginal communities — an unsolved Rubik's Cube. It is a mishmash.
I do not know whether any of you have tried to put a Rubik's Cube back into place. Last night my son and daughter grabbed this one and started to play with it and I almost had a heart attack because I wanted it to look nice and neat, so I told them they could do anything to this other one. They mixed it all up and I told them to try to get it back like the first cube. They found it frustrating and they put it down.
Well, that is what happens in corporate Canada. We go to apply for some of these 282 different grant programs that exist within the federal government, but where do we go, what is the path, how do we get there? Like with the Rubik's cube, finally we give up, we put it down; and who does not benefit? It is the Aboriginal people. Corporate Canada will continue to do its activity, the Government of Canada still has its great programs, and the people in the middle, the Aboriginal people for whom the programs were designed, unfortunately do not benefit as much as they should.
EnCana has been fortunate then to work with a number of Aboriginal communities where we are making incredible economic progress. We have initiated about 12 different rig partnership deals with First Nations who have an equity interest in portions of the drilling rigs, along with jobs and benefits with new skills and training. The rig partnerships were made possible by a federal government program whereby the First Nations were allowed up to 25 per cent ownership in the drilling rig. Unfortunately, we had to hire someone to figure out the process of how to get the funds out in a timely manner and from which department, in order for the First Nations to take advantage of that government program.
In closing, I would like to share some words from leaders EnCana has worked with closely. One is Howard Cardinal, an elder from Saddle Lake, Alberta, and the other is Joyce Metchewais, a former chief of Cold Lake First Nations. Howard Cardinal said that much like EnCana they are working to create a circle of wealth. They do not dwell in a tepee but it symbolizes what they are doing. Their members form a circle and the businesses they run, like the drilling partnerships, camps, catering, water trucks, each stand on their own, just like the poles in a tepee. What they can best do for themselves they will do.
Joyce Metchewais said that she believes that through employment, people can build self-esteem and that is what she wants for her people. With partnerships with corporations such as EnCana they are able to develop companies to provide jobs for their members and their community. As leaders, their team believes in encouraging their people to get skills and education to get secure jobs. Partnering with companies has afforded them the opportunity to negotiate scholarships, jobs, job training, monies and other benefits.
In less than five years, this First Nation, located in Calgary, has moved from 80 per cent reliance on social programs to less than 20 per cent because of jobs in economic development and has built self-respect, self-reliance and independence. These are the fundamentals of true freedom for Canada's Aboriginal people.
Avrim Lazar, President and CEO, Forest Products Association of Canada: I will share with the committee my daughter's solution for the Rubik's Cube. She took it into the kitchen, held it over boiling water, peeled off the colours, put them all back on in order and asked what is so hard about that. There is a lesson in that, because you can fool around with federal government programs for the rest of your life, as I have — I was in the federal government for 25 years — and in the end I do not think you are going to find a solution. I believe the solution actually lies in the topic with which the committee is seized, which is business.
According to the literature on social distress, health distress and family distress, people who do not have a job or do not have a means of livelihood are deeply distressed. People who have access to wealth, income or a good living have a much lower rate of unhappiness.
I am speaking to the committee today as a representative of business. That is the solution we suggest. The forest industry employs directly and indirectly 900,000 people across the country. We are the sole economic engine of 320 rural communities. We account for $40 billion in exports. We are a big business, but the nice thing about us is that one does not have to move to Toronto or Winnipeg or Vancouver to work for us. We are out in the bush.
If you want to stay in the bush but you want a good job you come to us. If you want a high-tech job you come to us. Most of our jobs are high-tech. We are not the old lumberjacks; our work uses computers and highly sophisticated equipment. One of our mills has more computers than a Boeing 747. Therefore, if you want a good, modern, high-tech job and you do not feel like living in Toronto, Winnipeg or Vancouver, you come to the forest industry, and that is what 17,000 Aboriginal Canadians have done.
We are the largest employer of Aboriginal Canadians. The mining association says the same thing and frankly if that is what we compete for I am proud to compete. Let us see who really employees more. I think we just use different numbers, but we are the largest employer. More important than that, we also have relationships with 1,400 Aboriginal businesses — small and medium-sized businesses of 10 to 50 people, many of which have been around 10, 20 or even 35 years.
We have been involved in the simple, straightforward improvement of life for Aboriginal Canadians by doing business with them; not by social programming or government programming or by litigation, but simply by creating economic opportunity.
Our workforce is getting old, which is good news; as our workforce ages we will be recruiting. The Aboriginal workforce is young, so in rural Canada, in the bush and across the country good, high wage, high-tech jobs will be available to them and, as I said, even more important, there will be opportunities for businesses, for joint ventures, for contracts to be suppliers and to work with us in the business world.
If the answer is business, why have we come to this committee? Why not just keep doing business? The answer is skills. The flip side of our jobs' not being the old lumberjack and labourer jobs is that functional literacy is required for the training for the new jobs. Math literacy and language literacy are needed. We cannot train people who do not have those skills to work in our mills. We are looking for millwrights but we go through group after group and they do not pass the entrance requirements for being trained. The equipment we use now to work in the woods is so high-tech that workers have to be able to read and understand the equipment manual. We have only about 20 trained foresters who are Aboriginals.
If there were more emphasis on math, science and basic skills in the Aboriginal communities, the economic opportunities, not just for jobs but also for businesses, would be enormous.
We have also asked ourselves what is holding back some of the Aboriginal businesses and the answer is the difficulty of accumulating equity. To do business one has to be able to accumulate equity. I know that is a larger, more political question so I will leave it to senators and parliamentarians who are more sophisticated than business people in this, but we know that you cannot build a business unless you build equity, and that stands in the way of many Aboriginal communities moving into the culture of business, the culture of self-sufficiency and the culture of economic well-being.
The few government programs that could touch us tend not to. For reasons that I find almost unanswerable, Aboriginal Business Canada and FedNor programming de-emphasize forestry. We are where the jobs are. Programs should emphasize those jobs. If you are going to change government programming, we strongly suggest that those programs be looked at and re-oriented to help Aboriginals get into the industry that is where they are, the industry that does not require moving to the cities, the industry that allows them to maintain contact with their cultural roots and their families.
Honourable senators, that is my message. We are here and we want to do business. There are opportunities, and you all know, as we know, that when people have an opportunity to make a living many of the other problems become much easier.
The Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Lazar. We have been joined by Senator Corbin from New Brunswick.
Mr. Popko, you have worked not only with the First Nations; you have ventured into the world of all section 35 people — the Metis — as well. You have worked in British Columbia, I believe, quite successfully. Is there one main ingredient that generates the ability of our First Nations people to participate with you? Would you share that with us?
Mr. Popko: Training. The Métis Nation British Columbia came forward with a program for training. They needed $1 million for a training program and they asked if we could find their people work. We donated $250,000 over a three- year period for a training program. To date, 37 people have gone through the program with 97 per cent success in graduation; and all of them got jobs. The key is, once they are trained in the oil patch, they are pretty well going out the door and getting a job. It is great. They do not come to work for EnCana. We are doing this as a good neighbour. The Metis came with a proposal to train people, and we could not say no because it was a great idea. There are skill shortages out there so whatever we can do to get them involved in the industry, we will do. We think $250,000 is minimal as an investment to get more people trained to work in our industry.
The Chairman: Mr. Lazar, you were talking about skills development. One of the big things we are hearing in our travels is the inability of our First Nations people to acquire the academic skills they need to provide them with the opportunity to join industries like yours. A good friend of mine used to say that the best social program is a job, and you echoed that. How do you find the people who have the academic skills that you require? Are they from off reserve or on reserve?
Mr. Lazar: It depends where the mill and the operation is located in the country. We are finding great Metis and First Nations employees both off reserve and on reserve. We have 17,000 employees and we do not offer government- style jobs. Our jobs are hard-nosed, perform-or-you-are-out jobs and we are happy with how it is working.
I would like to support Mr. Popko's comment that basic skills are the key. If we are to do anything, we should ask whether the education system that is providing basic skills training to Aboriginal peoples has adapted itself sufficiently to their circumstances. I do not know what the numbers are but we are spending an impressive amount of money on education. If you are in business and it is not working, then you change or you go out of business. If you are in government and it is not working, you keep doing it for quite a few generations. The current approach to education does not work, so let us change it.
The Chairman: We are spending approximately $1 billion.
Mr. Lazar: It would be silly to say add more programs. Why are we sitting here saying that we have a skills shortages when we are spending $1 billion? The answer is that we are not spending it smart enough.
Senator Sibbeston: This is the first occasion we have had to meet with industry on this topic. I commend Mr. Popko of EnCana Corporation and Mr. Lazar of Forest Products Association of Canada because you engage, hire and contract Aboriginal people in Canada. I hope that many executives in Canada are watching these proceedings so that they can be encouraged and inspired to engage and hire Aboriginal people. It is commendable.
My question is for both witnesses. What is the motivation for engaging with Aboriginal people? What are you getting out of it?
Mr. Lazar: Thank you for calling it commendable but, with respect, I have to disagree. It is not commendable because it is business. The people we hire are great workers, great colleagues and great people to work with in our business. We are not doing this out of some sense of social obligation or anything else. We are doing it because they are great workers and we want them to work in the industry. If you start with the attitude that this is about business, about good people getting good jobs and about finding what the barriers to that are, then you get a lot further than if you start with more complicated motivations. We want Aboriginal workers because they are really good workers.
Mr. Popko: The Aboriginal workforce has come to the forefront in Canada over the last eight or nine years. When I got into Aboriginal relations, we used to have meetings at the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers. There were eight of us sitting around the table sharing stories over cups of coffee. Over time, people are beginning to realize that the Aboriginal workforce exists and can contribute to the Canadian economy. That coffee group at CAPP is now 40 members strong and they have committees set up. We were talking earlier about how many conferences are taking place in Canada about creating jobs and opportunities for Aboriginal people. As EnCana expands, it is drilling 4,000 to 5,000 wells per year. Many of the communities closest to our operations are First Nations and Metis. It is a matter of being a good corporate citizen and working with the community closest to the area of operation, engaging the people, and asking them how they want to get involved in our activity, whether owning rigs, camp catering or road building. It is amazing to hear the people talk about what they want to do and how they want to participate. We will be their neighbour for quite some time.
Senator Sibbeston: While you say it is good business, I still commend you. I appreciate that it takes determination, goodwill and inspiration to engage Aboriginal people because sometimes it is difficult. The area that I know best is the Northwest Territories, where I am from, and there has been a remarkable change over the last 10 or 15 years. Initially, with the way life and business were back then, native people were not involved at all. In a sense, they were emerging and coming off the land. Running businesses was a new for them. It takes a great deal of skill, organization and determination to have a business. In the North, there has been a solid growth of Aboriginal businesses, in part because of the education level of the people and the new opportunities there and in part because of corporations, such as the diamond mines, that have developed in the North. Certainly, there is motivation for Aboriginal people to become involved because they are in their territory. It is to their benefit to cooperate. Instead of challenging business development they have decided to engage them to see what benefits can be gained. A mutually beneficial process has come into play. Many Aboriginals are now workers and many are running businesses involved with the mining companies.
That has been the process. Somewhere along the line, company executives make a decision to engage Aboriginal people. As you say, they are good workers; but also when they start out, perhaps they do not have the skill, the money, the organization or the capital to be engaged. However, with the help of companies, it becomes possible and that is what we have seen happen. It is very positive and it goes a long way toward helping Aboriginal people in our country get on their economic feet and succeed.
While you say it is good business, I commend you. Obviously, in your companies, you made a decision at one point to engage Aboriginal people. I am very thankful for that and I wish more companies in our country had that attitude.
Senator Hubley: I would like to come back to the relationship between industry and Aboriginal people. Mr. Popko, you suggested how your company has invested in the educational process. What kind of relationship do you have as a company with the skills training institutions, the educational institutions where you can have some input into what your company's needs are and what the opportunities are for Aboriginal people? Has that affected the educational process in that facility? I would like to have Mr. Lazar's answer to the same question, as well.
Mr. Popko: I have nine or 10 examples of what EnCana is doing in this regard. I will share a story about the Northern Alberta Institute of Technology, NAIT, in Edmonton. Dr. Sam Shaw, who is the dean there, approached EnCana about a mobile training unit. It is an 18-wheeler that goes into the communities. Rather than having Aboriginal people coming into Edmonton to take a program, we go out to the communities with the 18-wheeler; it is a mobile school.
It has to work with the community. There will be anywhere from 12 to 20 people, depending on the program. It could be plumbing, electrical or woodworking. There are mobile units that go into the back of the 18-wheeler, and they go to the reserve for six to eight weeks to deliver the program.
The program needs to have the support of the chief and council. They need to ensure that the people attending will complete the program. It has been a great success. We participated in this, together with three other companies. These trailers cost a few million dollars, but they are booked up through all of 2007 in communities in Alberta. They have been asked to go to the Northwest Territories, to Hay River and Fort Smith. These units are unbelievable and relatively inexpensive, and they really deliver on a training program.
I was recently in Australia at a world indigenous conference and I showed this picture of the trailer to indicate what we are doing to assist Aboriginal people in remote communities. A group from Australia then went to Edmonton to meet with Dr. Shaw to look at the trailer because it is so unique. They were absolutely impressed and they want to take this idea back to Australia to try with the indigenous people there.
If any senator is in Edmonton, I invite you to see the mobile training unit that, in my opinion, is very inexpensive and delivers on Aboriginal training to people who are unskilled labourers. It gives them a flavour of being a welder or plumber or other type of worker. It whets their appetite; and the neat thing is that they go home every night to their own community so there is a bond there among the classmates. That is just one example of what we are doing.
Senator Hubley: Does a six- to eight-week training program just prepare them to go to another institution, such as plumbing or electrical?
Mr. Popko: Yes. It encourages them to say, ``Hey, I would really like to be an electrician or a welder.'' Then maybe a group of three or four or five will go to Edmonton together to attend NAIT and take the full course. It gives them the chance to see if they like the programs and it shows them that they can do it. There is the community support of chief and council. Also, having 16 or 18 members of a community going through the program together builds pride and confidence that they can do these trades.
Taking the training program into the community makes it more of a peer thing. People see their friends taking the course and the next thing you know, they are signing up. People influence others in their community. When they graduate, everyone wants to participate.
I believe there are two units now. They are booked right up. I was talking to Dr. Shaw the other day and he would like to have a third unit operating.
Yesterday, in British Columbia, a woman from the Aboriginal Affairs Branch mentioned that they will build a mobile unit. That is great news because there is success out there. Instead of creating something new, if this is working, copy it and run with it.
Senator Hubley: Do the instructors come from the NAIT program itself?
Mr. Popko: Yes.
Senator Hubley: They are on the road.
Do the on-reserve Aboriginals who are unemployment or on EI have the same opportunities to participate in these programs? They are 41 per cent, I think.
Mr. Popko: Yes, they do. It would be up to the bands to select the individuals to participate according to whatever criteria they choose. The band would work with NAIT and then with the community to ensure they got the required 12 or 18 people.
Senator Hubley: Mr. Lazar, do you have any information on educational programs that prepare Aboriginal young people for the forestry industry?
Mr. Lazar: I will ask Mr. DeVries to talk about that.
Andrew DeVries, Director, Conservation Biology and Aboriginal Affairs, Forest Products Association of Canada: Thank you for the opportunity to speak. The forestry industry is able to piggyback, in some cases, on the example Mr. Popko gave. You will hear of people who build on that program and go into millwright programs in some of the local colleges.
In Manitoba and Ontario there is a very popular junior ranger program that takes kids who are in Grades 10, 11 and 12 and, through a summer program, gives them some of those skills. They are more oriented toward forestry, but also across disciplines; the kids can take those skills into mining or oil and gas later on.
Those programs are very successful; often the kids come back after years one, two and three and go into the local colleges and universities after that. The local colleges and universities across Canada have really stepped up to doing Aboriginal education. There is the First Nations House of Learning at the University of British Columbia, for example. Lakehead University, in Thunder Bay, has some excellent examples as well.
I think the trailer example and the junior ranger program help address some of the gaps for the kids who tend to drop out of school around Grade 10. To make that step up to college or university is where we are having the challenges. We do not have enough kids entering college and university programs. These programs are great at bridging the gap from when they drop out in Grade 10 and getting them through to Grade 12.
If we can support kids to get through Grades 10 to 12 and finish their high school education with the basic literacy skills in maths and sciences, then we will be able to work with the Aboriginal communities to get more professionals in our industries.
The Chairman: The dynamism that you bring to this table is a tribute to corporate Canada.
Senator Corbin: I arrived late so my question might have been explained. What is FedNor programming? Has that been explained to the committee?
Mr. DeVries: I am not that familiar with it. It is a federal program designated for Aboriginal people working and living in Northern Ontario. I can find out more specifics for you if you are interested.
Senator Corbin: I have a question that brings me back to something we did in New Brunswick. Is there a forestry school or institute or college for native people?
Mr. DeVries: Specific to native people?
Senator Corbin: Anywhere in Canada?
Mr. DeVries: Yes, there is. There is Nicola Valley Institute of Technology in British Columbia. I am not familiar with one in New Brunswick, but there may well be. Also, a number of core colleges and universities have adapted programs to facilitate learning for Aboriginal peoples.
Senator Corbin: I brought in New Brunswick as an analogy, but it does not quite fit. When the New Brunswick government decided to build a huge forestry centre in Fredericton, the French-speaking population did not like the idea. They approached the University of New Brunswick to set up its own faculty of forestry in my area. I had something to do with it. It has been highly successful. We are talking here about training at the professional level, but it has allowed the French-speaking population in New Brunswick to get beyond being hewers of wood and drawers of water. They now run some of the pulp mills and the major sawmills. We have even had French-speaking people from the province of Quebec go there to obtain skills.
I simply wonder why, considering the population of native people in Canada, an enterprise of that nature would not eventually become successful. Of course, you would need the input of not just the provincial and federal governments, but forestry as well. Forestry has always been interested in that kind of initiative. It seems there is room for that sort of thing.
Mr. Lazar: That is a very interesting idea.
With respect to hewing wood and drawing water, I do not know about the water drawers because we do not do much of that, but when it comes to hewing wood, we are proud. We do that in the most sophisticated, high-tech way in the world. Our productivity improvements are more than the rest of Canadian manufacturing and double that of the U.S. The sophistication with which we do it is astonishing. The rest of the world looks at us with great admiration. We Canadians should continue to hew wood and do it brilliantly.
Senator Corbin: I did not mean that in a pejorative way. I spent two days in the fall on the Irving Woodlands and the Fraser Company woodland looking at the way they harvest and manage their forests; I was quite impressed.
Senator Watt: In your presentation, you mentioned equity and the drilling rig project. You also talked about that $50 million in the long-term commitment with the original drilling rig company. Could you get into that a bit more?
Mr. Popko: That is my favourite subject. Mr. Chairman, how much time do I have?
The Chairman: Time is our greatest enemy, Mr. Popko. Go to it.
Mr. Popko: I will do the quickest math possible. As an example, a rig costs $10 million, for argument's sake. EnCana would go to the First Nations and say, we will give you a contract for four years, 800 days. They can go to the bank and get the money, but they need some sort of equity; so, $5 million for the First Nations, $5 million for the drilling company. We have done that with AKITA Drilling Ltd., Ensign Energy Services, Precision Drilling and Western Lakota Energy Services Inc. We have also done it with the Alberta Metis association; they own a rig.
Then the First Nation would go to one of the government programs and apply for the 25 per cent program. They would receive somewhere up to $1 million for the purchase of their rig. Then they would go to the bank for somewhere between $3 million or $3.75 million for the balance of their funds. They would work for EnCana for the next 600 or 800 days, depending on the contract, and the rig pays out somewhere in that 600 or 700 days. After about three years that $5 million investment is paid off and they have 20 people working on the rig. There were times that the Alberta Metis rig was 100 per cent run by Alberta Metis.
Western Lakota is running about 38 per cent Aboriginal people working on the rigs. It is an amazing story. I cannot say enough about the program because it was the federal grant money that actually kick-started me four and a half years ago when I learned that money was available. We went through the process and it was great. It took a little while; the first one took eight months to get through the application process. We got it down to three months. We went back to British Columbia, eight months, same program. We had some issues. That program unfortunately no longer exists. We have not done anymore rig deals recently. The last one we did was two years ago.
It provides great equity. The part of the grant program that I encourage and that I liked was that long as a company guaranteed the contract for long-term sustainability, none of the rigs for which we did a deal with the federal grant money failed. Every one of them had 100 per cent success. There was a long-term contract, they had a great partner and the First Nations worked and trained on it. I want to thank the federal government for the grant program that paid for it because that is what really started it. We would not have been able to do it. They would come to us and say, you have lots of money, loan us the money.
Thank you very much for the question. It is a great story.
The Chairman: Thank you very much, gentlemen. You are dynamic, all of you. You are an inspiration. We should have spent more time in business and less in politics. Having said that, it is nice to see that you have a corporate conscience and that you are doing everything you possibly can to help our First Nations people. We have done many studies and work in that area. We are appreciative of your corporate conscience and the good work you are doing. Do not lose the enthusiasm, Mr. Popko, Mr. Lazar, and Mr. DeVries.
The committee continued in camera.