Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Agriculture and Forestry
Issue 29 - Evidence - Afternoon meeting
KAPUSKASING, ONTARIO, Friday, June 1, 2007
The Standing Senate Committee on Agriculture and Forestry met this day at 1:01 p.m. to examine and report upon rural poverty in Canada.
Senator Joyce Fairbairn (Chairman) in the chair.
[English]
The Chairman: Good afternoon. One very important part of our hearings is to hear from individuals from the areas that we visit. We are very happy that you are here today to enhance the very vigorous and important discussion that we had this morning.
With us this afternoon is Patricia Simone, Executive Director of the Disability Resource Centre for Independent Living. We also have Marek Latos who is a trapper and with him is Elizabeth Latos, his partner. We want to hear what you have to say and it will help us in our journey to understand the difficulties in our rural communities.
Patricia Simone, Executive Director, Disability Resource Centre for Independent Living: Welcome to Kapuskasing. It is a pleasure to see the senators up here in our small northern community. We are thrilled to have you here. I am also thrilled to have this opportunity to speak to you.
I am Patricia Simone and I am the Executive Director of the Disability Resource Centre here in Kapuskasing.
The Disability Resource Centre for Independent Living began in 1978. It is a registered non-profit organization that promotes the achievement of independent living for people with disabilities. When I talk about ``people with disabilities,'' our centre services any form of disability. We service people with disabilities with information resources, peer support and attendance services. We help to develop independent living skills and we promote socialization and recreation. We believe that people with disabilities should be given options, choices, support, and control over decisions that affect their lives.
The centre is currently researching the barriers to employment for adults and youth living with a disability. These barriers are unique to Northern Ontario. We have conducted our research in four rural communities along the Highway 11 corridor encompassing Smooth Rock Falls, Cochrane, Hearst and Kapuskasing. We have found that although people with disabilities in Northern Ontario have greater access to technology, education and employment- related resources than they previously did, the evidence shows that they continue to experience relatively high levels of unemployment and relatively low levels of labour force participation.
Advances in technology, assisted devices, workplace accommodations, support programs and other measures can dramatically increase access to and retention in employment and training for persons with disabilities. However, often more challenging than the disability itself are the attitudinal barriers of our society and employers. Myths, misconceptions, stereotypes, assumptions and discrimination mean that people with disabilities are not perceived or treated in the same way as most other labour force participants.
There is no anonymity for people with disabilities living in small rural communities. If I am a wheelchair user or I have a disability, it is likely everyone in town is aware of it. If I apply for a job, employers have already made assumptions about me and I cannot even make it to the first step, which is the interview. If I lived in the city, my resume would be reviewed and I may be invited for an interview based on my skills and how they might fit the job profile. At least, I would be given an opportunity to sell my abilities to a potential employer.
Our findings have confirmed that there is a need to change the attitude of employers. We interviewed two people who developed a disability later in life; a university graduate, the other a college graduate, with several years of experience between the two of them. Both individuals ended up taking jobs that were not at the level that you would expect for people with that level of education and experience.
The problem is that employers focus on their disabilities instead of their abilities. It is the disability that appears to dominate what potential employers judge to be important. This inability on the part of the prospective employer leads to economic hardship for the person with the disability. Our society in general, is unable to evaluate correctly the talents of people who move or process information differently from the decreed norm. Many people with disabilities are forces to take much lower-paying minimum-wage jobs.
In our research, we asked people living with a disability if they had an opportunity to pursue post-secondary education; 95 per cent of the respondents said they were not encouraged to further their education beyond high school. That number really amazed me. It shocked and disappointed me that 95 per cent of students with disabilities are not encouraged to pursue a higher level of education.
We know that physical access to buildings is very limited in rural communities. Of the four communities we surveyed, 36 per cent of the businesses are not accessible. Stairs leading to offices, inaccessible washrooms, small work environments or inaccessible spaces are all barriers to employment for people with disabilities.
When we asked people with disabilities if transportation was a barrier, they answered yes. Although it is wonderful to have a Handi-Trans bus service available, there are gaps in the service. The bus is not available after 3 p.m. As one individual put it, ``If I find employment that requires I be at work after 3 p.m., I must depend on a taxi to get home. Taxis are expensive.'' Another individual stated, ``If I cannot get in the building, what does it matter if there is transportation?''
The federal, provincial and perhaps even municipal governments need aggressive financial programs to assist rural businesses in making their locations accessible to people with disabilities. These governments need to implement disability awareness training to employers, as attitude is the biggest barrier to people living with disabilities.
We looked at the pensions that people with disabilities receive from the Ontario government and among those people there is a common feeling that their financial needs will be decreased or deleted before any other government- funded service is cut.
When the Ontario Disability Support Program, ODSP, dramatically reduced the special diet allowance, the effect it had on people with disabilities was incredible. As an example, under her doctor's recommendation a woman was directed to incorporate more nuts into her diet to decrease her anaemia and increase her energy levels. However, because of the program cuts she is unable to purchase these items. The old saying that ``good food is not cheap and cheap food is not good'' certainly comes to mind. If she cannot eat the nuts because she cannot afford them, her health deteriorates and she is forced to visit her physician more often. In certain instances, people with disabilities have been hospitalized because of the cuts to the ODSP, which in turn puts a greater burden on our health care system.
Another practice that seems prevalent with the Ontario Disability Support Program is that funds are available; however, the people must know about that service and ask for it. If they do not ask for the support, the information is not shared.
We have experienced first-hand how people with disabilities do not have enough funds to nourish themselves properly. We keep frozen dinners in our freezer at all times. On many, many occasions, people with disabilities have come by our centre and it is quite evident that they are in distress. We invite them in and we offer them a meal. While they are eating, I take the opportunity to sit with them and I ask them when they ate their last meal. The people often respond that their last meal was early the previous morning. It is no wonder that their anxiety levels are so high and their sugar levels extremely low and dangerous.
Even the core funding that we receive from the federal government to operate our centre does not allow us to purchase food at any time. We must organize our own fundraisers that do not require a licence. We do those fundraisers in terms of yard sales or craft sales to be able to have food on hand for those who do not have enough.
We have food banks available in the community and they are a blessing for many. However, the food banks are unable to operate during the summer months. People with disabilities depend on those food banks to get them through the month.
We have over 500 members at our centre. Most of our members are people with disabilities who live on a fixed low income, an income that has not increased in nine years.
Six years ago, we abolished our own membership fees. Asking people with disabilities to decide between purchasing a loaf of bread and purchasing a membership to a centre was unfair and unrealistic. They just did not have enough funds to do both.
Our recommendations are to reduce poverty among people with disabilities and to allow them to sit at the table with the rest; to reinstitute the special diet allowance; to increase the coverage allowed on that program; to incorporate a cost of living allowance; and to increase employers' awareness of the abilities of people with disabilities. We think that that would be a great start.
I want to thank you again for allowing me this opportunity to come today.
Elizabeth Latos, as an individual: I do not know where to start. It seems that we are paying a lot of attention to the health and the well-being of people in this area. Without any question, that one thing should be available for every Canadian.
I have tried to find some solutions to the situation. We tend to stay with the timber industry, as this is our town's biggest industry; we do not check other opportunities.
Tourism is overstated; there is not much money in tourism. In my opinion, one of we are missing non-timber forest products and value-added products. We should have an opportunity to produce windows, doors, guitars or whatever. Those products are related to everything else that is in the bush. You can produce so many medicines from the bush. You can produce what they call wild crafters, the decorations that can be harvested from the bush. There is berry picking of course, mushrooms and many, many other products.
One of the products is trapping, which is the manageable, sustainable harvest of animals. One of the things that we should consider is that all of Canada is divided into trap lines. Those trap lines are self-employment possibilities for people who would like to have an extra income. The only thing is that because of Greenpeace and tree-hugging people, we do not see this resource as a renewable, biodegradable and sustainable and natural resource. We look for the plastic coats and other products that are dangerous to the environment.
My first proposition would be that the government get involved in the promotion of trapping. Right now, the only promotion we have is the Fur Institute of Canada which does not have a lot of money. There is promotion by trappers with our associations, but those associations do not have enough money as they are funded only from trapper memberships.
I could go on with non-timber forest products, with every product like this, but it does not make sense. That was just a sample.
I have heard today that there is a possibility to produce local vegetables, some fruits and meats and other agricultural products. Why not subsidize those people? Why do we have to bring tomatoes from California when we can grow them here? Maybe those local farmers and agricultural people might have some money from the government to allow them to live from the products that they produce.
Transportation is an issue in Northern Ontario and I recommend that you look at the railroad, because we have only one line. I believe that there should be two, and the same with the highway. If we had a second highway, probably we would have more people coming and going through our area. Another thing I would love to see is the government putting some money into research, especially in non-timber forest products research and not throw out the baby with the bathwater.
We do not know how much biomass we can take from the forests, not only from the forests, but also from the agricultural point of view. We are thinking that we can produce all kinds of biofuel, bioenergy from the forests. There are so many things in forests that have to stay there. For example, the debris is absolutely necessary for the marten habitat to survive. If we do not do research, we will destroy the habitat for animals that we have right now and we will not even know that we are destroying them.
Why not put people here who know the forests to do some research and development; otherwise, we will probably end up with all of the solutions coming from the south. Most of those solutions do not work for us.
Another point is the First Nations who are the poorest people in this area. They are so poor. You cannot just pass by them. It is so unbelievable. As far as I know, they do not want any charity. They just want respect, opportunities and maybe some information, leadership, maybe some kind of unconventional or financial help, but not the official help. They need somebody to come to their place. That is what you can do. Maybe we can try to find some kind of plan to do something for them. They are doing many things by themselves, but I think that instead of looking at First Nations as a problem for the rest of Canada, maybe we should try to work with them.
I have a house here. I earn a low income, but I do not feel that I am a poor person in this area. Those people who have houses and who complain that the value is lower, of course, they have their good points. But again, there are many people who cannot afford even an apartment. Maybe there is a financial possibility for those poor, low-income families to buy houses and stay here, and maintain their houses.
A very good point would be, for example, to start putting sewage systems in those houses. We are trying to save the environment. Nobody on low income will ever think about a sewage system because it involves a huge amount of money. All the household waste is going into the environment. Maybe that is one idea.
Another thing, we used to have the Northern Ontario deduction as a tax break for people in this area. The heating cost is huge; you have to deal with three, five, 10 feet of snow ever so often. So maybe there is a point here also. I know that Patricia's disability centre used to have a warm home program. This program was developed by charity and it just disappeared after a few years because there was not enough money. The cost of heating houses here is huge.
I will tell you about health care and not the ``I cut myself and I am going to emergency and get some help'' kind of health care. In this area, it takes me a month to see my doctor. My doctor sent me to see a specialist, who I can see in Timmins. I can access that specialist once every two or three years. My current condition has changed and my tests are outdated, so I had to make another appointment with my doctor to go to the next specialist and the same thing happens again and again. After 20 years, my every day health care needs change and I have to start all over again. In this area, you do not have a chance to keep your every day health stable.
In our area, there are forests and forest companies have sustainable forest licences. This means that the forest companies and not Natural Resources Canada make the decisions on the use of the wood and forest resources. Sustainable forest licensing allows changes in the bush. If they need some specific wood in some specific area, they do not care about anybody else, and certainly not the non-timber products people. Most of them are from Bay Street or Wall Street. They do not understand local people. They do not understand our needs. They do not provide for local people. They are just making their money from the easiest source. They are selling raw wood and they are selling paper. There are no value-added products. Maybe it is time that they pay just a little bit, maybe 1 per cent or maybe 5 per cent of their profits to the community or that they develop programs for value-added wood products.
I am disappointed with the way that our economy is going right now because everything is going up, up, up. I am not talking about fancy makeup stuff. I would love to see a company that makes regular food that you can call fancy food because it is packaged in a fancy way. Something has to be the same square or shape to sell it. Maybe those companies could produce similar products of the same quality without the fancy packages. In that way, poor people could by the quality food at a reduced price. Poor people should not have to eat lower-quality food. The food could be in bigger containers; we should not see single-serving food. They could sell these foods for a percentage of money that they are selling the fancy stuff. This way, people could afford good food.
One thing that I really do not understand and I wish somebody would give me an answer to this question: how come we produce so much food, we are throwing away so much food, and we have so many people starving. I do not understand this at all.
Marek Latos, Trapper, as an individual: I heard today and I hear every day many complaints, we should have this, we should have that or we should have something else. But from where? Everything is run by the economy. The economy is based on our resources and how we use those resources.
What kind of resources do we have here in Northern Ontario? We call the forest one kind of resource, mosquitoes, black flies, frost, real frost. Lately, we have been having black bear, a few moose and some fish. These are the only resources that we have here.
To manage these resources, we need management. We need managers. I heard at the beginning of today's meeting that we need leaders. We had a very good leader in Ontario. The premier led our province. The day after his term finished, he landed as a member of the Tembec board of directors. How can we trust this kind of leader? Why did he leave after his term? He left because the wood in the bush was gone. The forest is around 1 million hectares, 80 per cent was cut in the last 20 years, and around 50 per cent was cut in the last 10 years.
A year ago, we had a presentation on how this industry is collapsing. The Minister of Natural Resources said it is because our bush is too young. Why it is too young? It is too young because of lack of responsible management. We hear we need jobs. Yes, they created jobs so fast that they destroyed our resources and not even for money because the money is gone, the big company takes the money.
How is our forest managed? It is managed by timber companies, by logging companies, by loggers. They are not interested in managing another resource in the bush. We can say that about most forest management in Ontario. I can only compare. In Sweden and in Finland, the population of moose per area is at least 10 times greater. When I came here and started trapping, I used to harvest 125 marten in two or three weeks. It was our resource. Now, I harvest five marten in one year. Why? We harvest so few marten because the old growth forests are gone. We have young forests. It means our future is where? We have no more bush, no more forest, no more logging.
In the last two years, Tembec bought all the mills along and around this area. People say they bought the mills. No. They bought licences to harvest wood. They bought the mills and the next day, they closed the mills, but they keep the licences. There was a dispute because people were losing money. They found that Tembec sent wood to Quebec and the response and the comment from the president of Tembec was, ``Sorry, the wood is mine.'' What do we have as the residents when nothing belongs to us?
What few resources are left and how can we use them? Hunting, fishing and trapping gives the province millions and millions of dollars. You can see that at the North Bay auction and how many pelts the province is selling.
Our forest is destroyed. Habitats are destroyed. Who manages our wildlife? Some fanatic animal lovers from Toronto manage our wildlife. For example, they stopped bear hunting which gave a lot of money for outfitters because hunters from the States were coming; they brought some money to our province. Spring bear hunting is cancelled because they love bears so much. They have had such an experience with the teddy bear. Also, in the last 20 years, by accident, there was one female bear that was shot. Spring bear hunting was selective hunting only for males, which is the biggest predator for cubs as bears are cannibals. Last year, in Timmins, the police shot 28 nuisance bears within the town limits, but spring bear hunting is not allowed. Does it make sense? No.
The same story applies to the wolf. We have one man in town who has maybe 20 or more hunters coming from the States. This man is coming to our town. Animal lovers try to portray the wolf as a lovely animal, but animals do not need love, they need respect and management. The same way, I think we would prefer respect before love.
I heard that there are no doctors here. I know one doctor. He came to our town and joined our shooting club because he loved target shooting. He was very serious about starting to hunt until our government introduced the long- gun registration. If I want to go shooting on our shooting range, I need a special permit to transport my gun to the shooting range; I am treated like a criminal. What kind of people can we expect to come here to live like this doctor? He loved hunting and shooting. The rest is the black flies, the mosquitoes and frost. People wanted to know what kind of doctor he is if he has a gun. What is wrong? There is nothing wrong. The wrong is the anti-gun hysteria. One drug dealer in Toronto shot another drug dealer because that one was too slow. We are accused because we use guns for hunting and target shooting.
Those people manage our lives, our wildlife and our style of living. Can we expect that the doctor will stay here? No. He will stay here one year or one winter. We would be happy if he stays one winter. He will leave. He has to like this country. We cannot change this country.
I hear we should promote tourism. I know everyone who is in the tourism business. We have a tourism business. That is one way, but 80 per cent of our senior citizens visit Florida every winter. People do not come here as tourists.
What is the solution? It is easy to complain. The solution is we need managers who will lead us and our communities in the right direction. We need wise, smart managers who will be paid after his term is ended and when we see what he accomplished. We will pay him then and not before.
I will end by telling you a story. This is Patricia's story. Two Americans come to fish in Canada. They rent a cabin for $1,000 for one week. They pay $500 for the boat. They pay for gas from and to Montana. They come here and they catch one fish. They go home and George says, ``John, we spent some money for this, some money for that. This one fish in Canada cost over $3,000.'' John said, ``We are lucky we caught only one.''
Senator Mahovlich: You talked about the martens. Are they diminishing? They must be moving south. I saw five martens at my cottage last week. Are there many martens in this area?
Mr. Latos: Martens need old growth forests. All animals need a specific habitat. Martens need a prime habitat, not a marginal habitat close to your cabin or cottage. The marten needs the habitat to reproduce and to raise the small ones.
The biology of the marten is very specific. The marten is extremely territorial. When a female marten raises the kids she has maternal instinct, but when the fall comes her territorial instinct becomes more important and when she is ready, she will kill the young ones if they do not leave her territory. This is the way to survive. We have to understand nature. There is no mercy, no sentiment. The young ones have to go somewhere to find their home range. Where is their home range? Where is the old growth forest? For the young ones, wild animals, their mortality equals reproduction. This is the first rule in nature because there is no more room for higher populations. The reproductive potential of all animals revolves around natural selection and evolution; that is how they stay alive. They have huge reproductive potential to create huge genetic diversity and only the best adapted survive and exist in the environment.
The habitat environment is not stable; it is always changing. So they have a huge potential for reproduction. Statistically, if you take one tree, it spreads millions and millions of seeds and once in 100 years, one survives if this tree lives 100 years.
The martens need old growth forest. The forest management plans were not proper and they did not establish the marten habitat core areas. The plans left 10 per cent of the bush for prime habitat for martens. Martens were chosen as a featured species because they are the best example; if martens exist, it means that we have healthy old growth forests and it is enough. It is the best representation of old growth forest.
We went to check with Elizabeth. We received a grant from MNR when we complained and we put in our few dollars. We checked the conditions of this area, and marked it on the map. On the map, it looks nice, bright colours, so many hectares. We went over there. Martens need at least 20-metre trees, so much wood debris cover and so much tree composition and so on. Not one of these habitats made even 5 per cent of the requirement. The trees were eight metres high, not 20 meters.
Who prepared the forest management plans? The timber company prepared the plans and they managed martens. They have no interest in the marten. They managed moose and they have no interest in moose.
Moose are hedge and bush animals. The recommendation in moose management guidelines is that clear-cut should be no greater than 260 hectares, leaving 200 metres of bush. In our area, every year, we have more than 10,000 hectares of clear cut. Our moose population is going down because of lack of habitat, herbicides that kill their food, plus lack of protection against bears. The bear is the biggest predator for calf moose, the biggest. Bears kill more moose than wolves. We lost control of predators because somebody loved them and they never even thought of the moose.
Senator Mahovlich: Patricia, do you find anything wrong with the building code for disabled persons?
Ms. Simone: The building code is a bare minimum and it generally applies to new construction, not renovation.
What we are finding in small remote communities like Kapuskasing is that businesses may do some renovations to the entrance of the building. It is at that point, where we would like them to incorporate the accessibility and remove the stairs. However, we do not have a building code to enforce that change.
Senator Mahovlich: Do they put a washroom in there?
Ms. Simone: Yes, if it is a new construction.
Senator Mahovlich: Not old construction, not remodelling.
Ms. Simone: Not for old construction or remodelling or for small renovations. From my understanding, if the renovation encompasses a majority of the building, then yes, but for small renovations, no.
Decades ago when the buildings were constructed, the streets were bare and without pavement. Without pavement, the buildings were built high off the ground to avoid the mud and so on from entering into it. That is why there are stairs leading into many of these decades-old buildings. We understand the reason for the stairs. We would like to see the stairs eliminated when the renovations take place. That is when they need to put in the accessible doors, the automatic door openers.
Senator Callbeck: Patricia, you talked about core funding. Did you say that came from the federal government?
Ms. Simone: That is correct. We get the core funding from HRSDC.
Senator Callbeck: What percent of your total budget does that represent?
Ms. Simone: It represents about one fifth of my budget.
Senator Callbeck: You mentioned that you put on events and so on to raise funds.
Ms. Simone: We receive funding from the Ministry of Health to deliver an attendant services program. We receive funding from HRSDC for our core program. Currently, we have funding from the Ontario Trillium Foundation to institute a volunteer program. These funders will not allow us to purchase food or even a cup of coffee or a bowl of soup, so we put on yard sales and craft sales to be able to purchase those foods. Even if I went down to the municipality to purchase a licence to hold a bingo or a penny sale, which requires a licence, I am not allowed to put that money toward food. It has to be something that does not require a licence.
Senator Callbeck: You mentioned assisting businesses to change attitudes. I think you said that the employer looks at the disability. How do we change that way of thinking?
Ms. Simone: We can only change it through education and interaction.
Senator Callbeck: Through a big campaign like the campaign we have on non-smoking.
Ms. Simone: Yes, we can get the message out through large federal campaigns like that one. The problem exists right across the country. In fact, we have been getting some feedback from Alberta where there seems to be such a high demand for employees that they are now tapping into that market of people with disabilities. Some of the comments have been that in the past, they had never considered these people as a source of labour, but because they are in such dire straights to find employees, they are interviewing and hiring people with disabilities for the first time. Their misconception was that a disability is accompanied by an illness. Employers fear that if they hire a person with disabilities the person will often be sick and miss work. The employers are concerned with productivity compared to the cost of accommodating the person with the disability. These employers in Alberta are finding that that is not the case. Sometimes, the cost of accommodating the person with a disability can be minimal. A national campaign to really, really promote awareness would be good.
Our centre is thinking of putting on a health fair day so that we can provide that information to employers, demystify some of those misconceptions, and reassure them that hiring a person with a disability will not give them additional expenses.
Senator Callbeck: I agree and I wish you well.
Elizabeth, I want to ask you about tourism. In fact, you both mentioned it. Elizabeth, you said that it was overstated. When I look at the information that we have here, I see in terms of employment that accommodation and food services tourism is eighth in job creation.
Ms. Latos: Tourism would be a huge business here if we had proper accommodation, proper food, lower gas prices and, guides and everything else that is needed for tourism. Right now, we have all kinds of restrictions. I am not saying that those restrictions should be removed. For example, we do not have enough animals and fish to improve the amount of fish and animals that can be harvested.
Most of the people do not like this type of climate. We have snowstorms in the winter and many mosquitoes and black flies in the summer; it is not the perfect tourist environment. Tourists can find accommodation just south of North Bay, which is closer and easier to access.
The people that come here love this climate, but they know the prices are very high. They bring what they need from home. They bring their tents and they do not buy too many things from us.
Unless we have some kind of province-wide or northern programs to allow us to present more tourism-oriented events or places, we will probably not make too much money with tourism.
Mr. Latos: The only type of tourists we can have here are people who love to fish and hunt. That is all. They come here to hunt moose. Bear season is open only in the fall when the bears are very fat and their pelts are worthless. Only a few people bear hunt in the fall. Tourists and hunters came from the States during spring bear hunting time. If a hunter comes here, he has a big truck, a big trailer, all his equipment and a few dozens cans of gas. He does not buy those things here because our prices are too high. Outfitters usually come along with them and they only harvest one moose. This is very poor business.
They come to fish. Every hunter is a fisherman, but not every fisherman is a hunter. We used to have double business in the spring when they came for better hunting and stayed on to fish. Now, they come only in the fall for moose. A moose tag is worth $1,500. If we had good management like in Finland and Sweden with at least 10 times higher population of that area, we would have a very good business. Instead of the outfitter having one moose, he would have 10 moose and 10 times more clients.
The same thing applies to wolves. We have outfitters here in town and now, we have restrictions for hunting and trapping wolves in Algonquin Park. Animal lovers enforced these restrictions. None of them understands that while the wolf population grows the wolves destroy food resources. Their population must collapse or everything spins out of control.
We are suspicious. We always participate in wildlife and this is our place for sure. I will repeat, in my opinion, we need good, wise and responsible management.
The Chairman: Patricia, I am pleased that you included people with disabilities in your remarks. One of your comments was, ``The problem is that employers focus on their disabilities instead of their abilities.''
The other thing you mentioned was the participation of disabled people in sport. Canada is one of the best in the world when it comes to the Paralympic Games. I am very much involved with the games and most of the participants come from small communities across this country.
I support you to the end and encourage you to go further, even to get back to us with ideas as to how this all begins in small communities. I understand that whether it is basketball, or wheelchair rugby or swimming, it can happen in small places. The big thing is to make parents and families aware that this is probably one of the most inexpensive and best ways to provide their children with a decent life, an enthusiastic life.
Do you have a connection with these people?
I can tell you people who are working with our athletes who bring home the medals and the honour from competitive sport, are always looking for places where they can help. They are willing to help not just for competitive reasons, but to raise the opportunity for children who are eager to participate if they have someone to teach them how.
Do we have facilities here? Are there arenas here? Is there a basketball court where they can learn those kinds of sports? Is that something that you are engaged in here in Northern Ontario?
Ms. Simone: We promote recreation more than ever because we understand the related health benefits. We have connections with the Ontario Special Olympics. We have been experiencing many problems because we cannot seem to get the volunteers.
The Chairman: Is that the Ontario Special Olympics or the Paralympics? There is a difference.
Ms. Simone: I am referring to the Ontario Special Olympics. We do not really have any connections with the Paralympics and I would like to be able to establish more of a relationship with them.
We have found though that the hard part, Senator Fairbairn, is if the participants do not have their own form of transportation and if they have to rely on public transportation, it only runs until 3 p.m. If there is any recreation that they want to do in the evening, they have to wheel over. The conditions of our roads are very dangerous. We had some wheelchair users who were caught in a pothole. The chair flipped over and they ended up spending a week in the hospital trying to recuperate. They are apprehensive about trying to get to practices on their own.
We would like to establish more of relationship with the Paralympics. We would like our people with disabilities to be aware of the supports that are available to them.
The Chairman: I will leave you my card.
Ms. Simone: Thank you.
The Chairman: Are there facilities here that the kids can use?
Ms. Simone: Our bowling alley just closed, which is unfortunate because our people with disabilities participated in that sport. Our arena is completely accessible. So if there is anything there, yes.
There is no swimming. The pool is partially accessible. The municipality is currently looking at the pool. The pool is very, very old. The municipality will even be looking at replacing the pool maybe within the next five years. There are not many facilities.
The Chairman: Do you have a curling rink?
Ms. Simone: The curling rink is also housed in the area. It is wonderful to say it is accessible.
The Chairman: It was quite extraordinary to all of us to find out that unbeknownst to some, curling is becoming a competitive sport. We took a team to Torino. They had only been together for a year.
Ms. Simone: They won the gold, did they not?
The Chairman: They ended up beating the British and winning the gold. I focus on this because when young people see that kind of success it gives them the courage and the enthusiasm to say, I can do that.
Before I leave today, I will give you my card. We will connect on this.
Ms. Simone: Thank you very much.
Senator Mahovlich: I know that Prime Minister Jean Chrétien's son is very active in scuba diving for people with disabilities. They seem attracted to that sport. It is very good for them because they do not feel disabled at all. It is very important for them to get in that water.
Ms. Simone: I agree, but we also have to take into account that if you are going to participate in sports like that, there is an expense involved. It comes back to why we even had to abolish a simple little membership fee because we were forcing people with disabilities on low fixed incomes to make a choice between the loaf of bread or a membership.
In general, if we are talking about people who are on those fixed low incomes, they are not going to be able to afford to participate in curling. They cannot afford the membership fees to be able to participate in those sports.
Senator Fairbairn, I am not sure if there is a government subsidy available for people with disabilities on low incomes to help them participate in sports or events where there are memberships and fees attached to them.
The Chairman: To a point, and there is in provincial things, too. The main thing is to get it rolling on the ground. Anyhow, it is not often that we hear that particular part of the picture that we are trying to create. It was good to hear that you have your encouraging attitude here in Kapuskasing.
Thank you. This has been not just a fine day; it has been an outstanding day. It is wonderful to have people come in at the very end with their own personal and private concerns and abilities and good advice. We very much appreciate you coming today, all three of you. Thank you very much. I look at the two of you who have been sitting there before we even got here this morning. Thank you very much.
Colleagues, thank you. This has been a great day.
The committee adjourned.