Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Energy, the Environment and Natural Resources
Issue 1 - Evidence - April 25, 2006
OTTAWA, Tuesday, April 25, 2006
The Standing Senate Committee on Energy, the Environment and Natural Resources met this day at 5:37 p.m., pursuant to rule 88 of the Rules of the Senate , to organize the activities of the committee.
[English]
Keli Hogan, Clerk of the Committee: Honourable senators, there is a quorum. As clerk of your committee, it is my duty to preside over the election of the chair. I am ready to receive a motion to that effect. Are there any nominations?
Senator Angus: I would be happy to move that Senator Banks be the chair.
Ms. Hogan: Are there any other nominations? It is moved by the Honourable Senator Angus that the Honourable Senator Banks chair this committee. Is it the pleasure of honourable senators to adopt that motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
Ms. Hogan: I declare the motion carried.
I invite the Honourable Senator Banks to take the chair.
Senator Tommy Banks (Chairman) in the chair.
The Chairman: Thank you very much. The next order of business is the election of our deputy chair. I would invite nominations.
Senator Spivak: I would move that Senator Cochrane be deputy chair.
The Chairman: Any other nominations? All in favour of Senator Cochrane being deputy chair?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Carried.
Senator Carney: Is this a rigged election?
The Chairman: It follows convention.
The subcommittee on agenda and procedure would require a motion. I would invite a senator to make the following motion, namely, that the subcommittee on agenda and procedure be composed of the chair, deputy chair, and one other member of the committee, to be designated after the usual consultation — that would involve Senator Cochrane; I would not want to go further without discussing it with her — and that the subcommittee be empowered to make decisions on behalf of the committee with respect to its agenda and to invite witnesses to its scheduled hearings.
If that is agreeable, I would invite such a motion.
Senator Sibbeston: I so move.
The Chairman: All in favour? Discussion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: The motion is carried.
Motion number 4 to print our proceedings. It is moved by the honourable senator whomever that the committee print its proceedings; and that the chair be authorized to set the number to meet demand. Is there such a motion?
Senator Angus: I so move.
The Chairman: Senator Angus moves number 4. All in favour?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Carried.
Number 5 is the authorization to hold meetings and to print evidence when quorum is not present. It would be moved by a senator that, pursuant to rule 89, the chair be authorized to hold meetings, to receive and authorize the printing of the evidence when a quorum is not present, provided that a member of the committee from both the government and the opposition be present.
Is any senator prepared to make such a motion?
Senator Lavigne: I so move.
The Chairman: Senator Lavigne moves that motion.
Senator Carney: That seems new to me. What is the point of having a quorum of two people to hold a meeting?
The Chairman: If there is not a quorum, for whatever reason, and, for example, witnesses have been called, evidence can be taken.
Senator Carney: But no votes can be held?
The Chairman: No. Without a quorum there can be no votes, but evidence can be taken. In my short experience, this is convention. This is in every committee meeting that I have ever attended.
Senator Carney: I will second it, then.
The Chairman: Thank you. All those in favour of motion number 5?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: It is carried.
Now it is the financial report, motion number 6. I would ask that a senator move that the committee adopts the draft first report, prepared in accordance with rule 104. Do we have that handy? There is a copy available. This is the pro forma report to the Senate on the amount of money that we have spent up to now, which is about $240,000 altogether.
Is there a motion for number 6, to report?
Senator Angus: I so move.
The Chairman: Senator Angus so moves that we report. We should read this first, though.
Senator Adams: How many witnesses are we able to bring in for $5,000?
The Chairman: It would be more than $5,000. In the aggregate it would be $6,000 and change. Quite a few.
Senator Carney: Not from Vancouver or the territories.
The Chairman: The answer, Senator Adams, is on the second page. The answer is 149 witnesses. This is not a budget.
Senator Adams: We have to bring some people from the West.
Senator Angus: This is the last time. This is not our budget.
The Chairman: This is what we did so far. One of the reasons that we did not bring people from the West is we went to the West. We heard a lot of witnesses out there. This is a report of what happened.
Is there a mover of this motion?
Senator Angus: Yes, I move it.
The Chairman: Senator Angus moves number 6. All in favour?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: The motion is carried.
Number 7 is research staff. We would entertain a motion that the committee ask the Library of Parliament to assign analysts to the committee; and that the chair be authorized to seek the authority from the Senate to engage the services of such counsel and technical, clerical and other personnel as may be necessary for the purpose of the committee's examination and consideration of such bills, subject matters of bills and estimates as are referred to it; that the subcommittee on agenda and procedure be authorized to retain the services of such experts as may be required by the work of the committee; and that the chair, on behalf of the committee, direct the research staff in the preparation of studies, analyses, summaries and draft reports.
This is as before.
Senator Lavigne: I so move.
The Chairman: All in favour of the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: The motion is carried.
Number 8 would be a motion having to do with the authority to commit funds and to certify accounts. It would say that, pursuant to section 32 of the Financial Administration Act, and section 7, chapter 3:06 of the Senate Administrative Rules, authority to commit funds be conferred individually on the chair, the deputy chair and the clerk of the committee; and that, pursuant to section 34 of the Financial Administration Act, and Section 8, Chapter 3:06 of the Senate Administrative Rules, authority for certifying accounts payable by the committee be conferred individually on the chair, the deputy chair and the clerk of the committee.
The answer to the question is any of them; any and/or all. The answer is that it is conferred individually. Any of the chair, the deputy chair and the clerk can authorize expenses to be paid.
Senator Milne: So moved.
The Chairman: All in favour of the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: It is carried.
Number 9: that the committee empower the subcommittee on agenda and procedure to designate, as required, one or more members of the committee and/or such staff as may be necessary to travel on assignment on behalf of the committee.
This has to do with conferences and the like to which we occasionally go. Is there a motion to that effect?
Senator Fox: I so move.
The Chairman: Carried.
Next is number 10.
It would be a motion that the subcommittee on agenda and procedure be authorized to: (1) determine whether any member of the committee is on official business for the purposes of paragraph 8(3)(a) of the senators attendance policy, published in the Journals of the Senate on Wednesday, June 3, 1998; and (2) consider any member of the committee to be on official business if that member is: (a) attending an event or meeting related to the work of the committee; or (b) making a presentation related to the work of the committee.
The implication of this is that it would be done before, not afterwards, that a member of the committee could be designated to go to an event or to make a presentation on behalf of the committee that would require the committee's authorization to do so.
Is there a motion to that effect? Senator Lavigne moves that motion. All in favour of the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Carried. Thank you.
Number 11: It would be moved by a senator that, pursuant to the Senate guidelines for witness expenses, the committee may reimburse reasonable travelling and living expenses for one witness from any one organization and payment will take place upon application, but that the chair be authorized to approve expenses for a second witness should there be exceptional circumstances.
This is as before. Is there a mover of that motion? Senator Milne moves that motion. All in favour of number 11?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Carried. Thank you.
Number 12 is electronic media coverage of public meetings. It would be moved by a senator that the chair be authorized to seek permission from the Senate to permit coverage by electronic media of its public proceedings with the least possible disruption of its hearings; and that the subcommittee on agenda and procedure be empowered to allow such coverage at its discretion.
Is there a motion to that effect? It is for television coverage, mostly on CPAC, of our proceedings. Is anyone interested in doing that?
Senator Carney: Senator Fox and I will move that.
The Chairman: Senator Carney moves that motion. All in favour of the motion for televising proceedings when we can?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Carried. Thank you.
Number 13 is the time slot for regular meetings. I suppose we need a motion, but it was pretty well nailed down. They will be when the Senate rises on Tuesdays and not, in any case, before 5 p.m.; and on Thursdays from 8 a.m. until 10:30 a.m. We do not need a motion.
Honourable senators, thank you very much for all of that. It is necessary housekeeping and it all has to be said.
I would now propose and entertain two motions from senators, one that we go in camera to discuss our work plan and issues we might want to consider; and two, that the direct personal staff of senators be permitted to stay during in camera sessions of the committee. I believe they should be separate motions because the second one would pertain in respect of all committee meetings. Is it agreeable that we now go in camera?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: That motion is passed, so we should now take a moment to clear the room, but we should first have a motion, if you wish, that would permit the personal staff of senators to remain in in camera meetings of the committee.
Senator Fox: I would assume that if we wish to excuse staff at some point, we could.
The Chairman: Certainly, but as a general rule, when we occasionally go in camera, some senators want their staff members present. The committee is its own master and can change the rule at any time. Is there such a motion?
Senator Fox: I so move.
The Chairman: Senator Fox moves that motion. Is it agreed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The committee continued in camera.