Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Foreign Affairs
Issue 2 - Evidence, May 31, 2006
OTTAWA, Wednesday, May 31, 2006
The Standing Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs met this day at 4:12 p.m. to examine the development and security challenges facing Africa; the response of the international community to enhance that continent's development and political stability; and Canadian foreign policy as it relates to Africa.
Senator Hugh Segal (Chairman) in the Chair.
[Translation]
The Chairman: I see that we have a quorum; and I know that other senators will be arriving shortly.
[English]
I want to welcome everyone present and as well as our viewers to the third meeting on Africa this session of the Standing Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs.
[Translation]
It is a both a pleasure and a privilege to welcome the Honourable Josée Verner, Minister of International Cooperation and Minister for la Francophonie and Official Languages. Ms. Verner is also responsible for the Canadian International Development Agency, an agency mandated to help reduce poverty and make the world a safer, fairer and more prosperous place. CIDA focuses on five priority areas: good governance; health, in particular, AIDS; basic education; private sector development; and environmental sustainability.
The majority of Canada's bilateral aid in the mid-term will be focused on 25 development partner countries, 15 of which are African. The minister is here today to provide us with more details about this approach.
[English]
With the minister, we have from the CanadianInternational Development Agency Ms. Diane Vincent, Executive Vice-President; Mr. Paul Hunt, Vice-President, Africa Branch, who has been with us on a number of occasions during the First Session of the Thirty-eighth Parliament; and Bruce Montador, Vice-President, Multilateral Programs Branch.
We are honoured to have with us today as well members of the Diplomatic Corps representing our partners, colleagues and allies in the Commonwealth and La Francophonie en Afrique.
[Translation]
The floor is yours, minister.
Josée Verner, P.C., M.P., Minister of International Cooperation: Mr. Chairman, it is a privilege to be able to share with you my first impressions of the scope and complexity of development challenges in Africa and our involvement to help the people of Africa meet some of these challenges.
Mr. Chairman, as Minister of International Cooperation, and in view of my responsibility for La Francophonie and Official Languages, I would like to tell you what has struck me most strongly about Africa since my recent appointment to cabinet.
Africa represents the greatest development challenge, the top global priority in this area. I recognize how serious the situation is in Africa: the level of poverty is high; there is a high prevalence of HIV; women and children face precarious living conditions; and there are a large number of conflicts.
I will not add to this, since you had the opportunity to discuss these issues with Mr. Fowler yesterday.
We know that the living conditions in Africa and other regions have disastrous long-range consequences, not only for Africans, but for all of us. We help the African people, but it is also in our own interest.
Mr. Chairman, an often very pessimistic image of Africa continues to be projected. In spite of the challenges that I have just mentioned, it is important to note that considerable progress has been made in several parts of Africa.
Too often, the public's attention is focused on crises and we hear very little mention made of efforts taking place. I want to mention Prime Minister Harper's recent announcement that Canada will provide $40 million in assistance for the people of Darfur. Half of this amount will be for humanitarian assistance, and the rest will go to peacekeeping efforts by the African Union. This contribution includes support for the World Food Programme, which provides precious and essential aid for Darfur and other parts of Africa.
On Monday, I met with James Morris, executive director of the World Food Programme (WFP), who noted that Canada's generosity makes a difference between life and death for millions of people who, through no fault of their own, are threatened by hunger, starvation and death.
Recently, at the end of April, the WFP announced an important reduction to food rations, particularly in the region of Darfur. CIDA immediately stepped up and provided $10 million to support the efforts of the World Food Programme.
I am pleased to see that the WFP will begin restoring rations for millions of people in Darfur due to recent assistance announced by many donors, including Canada. But much remains to be done. There are still continuing needs in places such as Sudan, East Africa, in Ethiopia, and elsewhere in the world.
We have also heard of the conflict that rages in the Democratic Republic of Congo. This country is in transition and is trying to find its way out of a crisis. The crisis has affected ten of thousands of civilians, mostly women and girls who have been tortured or sexually assaulted.
On International Women's Day in March 2006, I announced Canada's support for a UN project to assist women who are victims of sexual violence in the Democratic Republic of Congo. In cooperation with other international agencies,non-governmental organizations, and the Democratic Republic of the Congo's transitional government, we are working to provide medical and psychological supports servicesfor 15,000 victims.
CIDA also aims to support efforts towards good governance and democratic development in the Democratic Republic of the Congo. I am particularly interested in the living conditions of African women and their contribution to poverty reduction and conflict resolution.
Recently, I had the pleasure of chairing the Ministerial Conference of the Francophonie in Saint-Boniface, which led to a declaration on the prevention of conflicts and on human security.
We have also announced recently a contribution of $250 million for the fight against polio, tuberculosis, malaria and HIV/AIDS.
Canada intends to concentrate its bilateral assistance. We are focusing on least developed countries, but also those that have demonstrated their commitment to reducing poverty and the ability to honour this commitment.
As you have seen, the international community has strongly mobilized in recent years, to support the emergence of African leadership. The international community is committed to minimizing isolated, piecemeal practices to ensure effective, sustainable activities.
When I reflect on the conditions needed for development, my attention invariably focuses on the following elements of a basic system: countries must own their development priorities; strong leadership must be effectively exercised; and donors must make a firm commitment.
I am happy to report that this combination of factors is taking shape in Africa. The development of Poverty Reduction Strategy Frameworks reflects this. Over 20 countries have already developed their own strategy.
As well, the launch of the New Partnership for Africa's Development, commonly called NEPAD, has also shown African leadership and commitment towards assuming full responsibility for Africa's development challenges, thus inviting cooperation by its partners.
I am particularly aware of the innovative characteristics of NEPAD's African Peer Review Mechanism, which includes aself-review process for governance performance and requires input from civil society, the private sector, and governments.
Twenty-five countries have agreed to be subject to this mechanism. Ghana, one of our key partners, has been congratulated for its achievements in political, economic, and corporate governance. The review process has produced recommendations that Ghana seeks to implement in a program of action closely monitored by donors.
Many African countries have deemed it necessary to undergo a full review of their own governance. This shows solid proof of their commitment to their people and their international partners, and constitutes an unprecedented initiative.
A peer review is also being carried out among donors through the OECD Development Assistance Committee. The last review helped point the way to aid effectiveness, concentrating our assistance, bringing our priorities in line with those of partner countries, working more closely with other donors, and untying our aid.
Thanks to our more concentrated, targeted approach to the countries and sectors where we are active, we have been able to increase our influence and, above all, to multiply the impact our activities have.
Furthermore, our partner countries are making progress that reflects our strengthened effectiveness. Real progress is being made.
Before I close, allow me to give you a few examples of African success stories to which Canada has contributed.
Currently, 19 countries have exceeded 5 per cent average annual economic growth. In the past five years, more thantwo-thirds of parliamentary elections have been deemed free and transparent. Pan-African institutions are emerging. One of those, the African Union — the first political institution responsible for promoting continental integration — plays far more than a peacekeeping role. It allows African countries to speak, to strive, and above all to act as one.
In education, in eight of our partner countries, 9 million more children have enrolled in school in the past five years. Half of these new schoolchildren are girls. I would like to emphasize that each added year of schooling allows girls to expect higher income by an average of 10 to 20 per cent.
Mali was able to vaccinate all of its children under the age of five against polio. Thanks to donor debt relief initiatives, Tanzania has invested in primary education and eliminated tuition fees. The country is on the way to achieving a Millennium Development Goal: ``Achieve universal primary education'' by 2010. Tanzania's school attendance rate increased from 59 per cent in 2000 to 91 per cent in 2004.
Mr. Chairman, in conclusion, I strongly believe that the current context favours Africa's effective development. Canada has a proud tradition of assistance to Africa. We have shown that Canada can act quickly in times of crisis, as we have done in Sudan. But we must stay the course to ensure the sustainability of the progress we have made.
The Speech from the Throne and the recent budget announced that by 2010-2011 we will have doubled the international assistance from 2001-2002 levels. This shows the present government's compassion and its desire to maintain and strengthen Canada's leadership and international assistance.
Mr. Chairman, I will be happy to engage in dialogue with you and to answer questions from the committee.
The Chairman: Thank you for your frank and optimistic presentation.
Senator Dawson: First of all, I would like to congratulate you for your perseverance. Having campaigned with you two years ago, I can attest to your perseverance in carrying on for two years. Our committee needs this perseverance in order to attack the African problem.
I would also like to congratulate you for the airport in Quebec City, because that will allow us to host the Sommet de la Francophonie in two years' time. Which brings me to my question: is it possible that your department would be able to implement a process during the Sommet de la Francophonie in Quebec, in 2008, to announce solutions to the debate on Africa? Or may we perhaps think that we will be in a position to announce to the francophone countries of Africa, following measures undertaken by committees such as ours, or through NEPAD, that we are working on this?
This perseverance applies to the parliamentary committee on the Francophonie when you remind your colleagues, who are participating in a meeting of parliamentarians, to insist that Africa always be on the agenda.
It is sad to say that we have to talk about 2008 and I do not believe there are short-term solutions. The solution is to see the department, Canadian parliamentarians and the committee responsible for the issue continuing to move things forward.
Unfortunately, in the past we had a tendency to put these things on hold, only to shelve them later on. We have a goal, but if we are able to make announcements saying that we have found solutions to problems, I would like to know if we can count on you during the future summits of the Francophonie?
Ms. Verner: I appreciate your thanks and your positive remarks concerning my perseverance. I can assure you that I will continue to persevere on African issues in the future.
Last May 13 and 14, we had a ministerial conference in Saint-Boniface and there were representatives of Francophonie states present. Obviously, we discussed conflict resolution and the various ways in which we can become involved on the African continent.
We came out of this conference with a joint statement that will be submitted, before 2008, at the Bucharest Summit, in 2006. The heads of state that will be present will make some decisions.
I believe that not only will 2008 be a step in what we intend to do in Africa, but the last budget speaks to well beyond 2008; we are talking about doubling our assistance to Africa from 2001 to 2010: in roughly 2010 we could reach a level of assistance of about $5 billion.
Senator Dawson: As you have mentioned the Winnipeg Summit, allow me to express the hope that what happened to Mr. Diouf in Toronto will not happen again. Perhaps this took place in a different context for the representatives of CATSA and for those from the Department of Foreign Affairs, because the Quebec region certainly does not have the most international airport in the world.
I hope that in the future the necessary steps will be taken to ensure that this kind of incident does not happen again, and I am not only referring to 2008. I believe this incident has stained Canada's reputation both nationally and internationally.
Ms. Verner: I would like to respond to Senator Dawson who is alluding to the fact that Quebec City's airport is not an international one. Our government has announced that it will inject the necessary funds to allow Quebec to have a truly international airport in order to welcome the dignitaries of the Summit of la Francophonie.
The incident that took place in Toronto is unfortunate and we have expressed our regrets. The former President of Senegal and Secretary General of the OIF wished, following a conversation he had with our Prime Minister, to move on. He mentioned that he was touched by the comments made about him. As a sign of respect for the members of the International Organization of la Francophonie, he also wished to remember that not only was he warmly welcomed in Canada despite this incident, but that the conference was also a success.
Senator St. Germain: We have had the Trudeau, Mulroney, Chrétien and Martin governments. Today, Mr. Harper is in charge of the country. What will he do differently to improve the lives of Africans? I ask the question because it would seem that, as we say in French, `plus ça change, plus c'est pareil'' — the more things change, the more they stay the same.
Ms. Verner: Canadians have said recently that they want real change and in the Speech from the Throne, the government said that it will ensure there is a more judicious distribution of the assistance we provide internationally. I remind you once again that we hope to double the amount of money allocated to Africa to help its population. We are already seeing success stories in Africa, which are not fully recognized and given their due.
We must make sure that we support the countries we provide assistance to, and it is certainly with the perseverance that Senator Dawson referred to that we will continue to invest. I promise you that we will continue to help these people and to ensure that we achieve good results.
Senator St. Germain: Some people say that we should focus on three or four countries, instead of trying to work with a hundred or so. What do you think?
Ms. Verner: As the new Minister of International Cooperation, I am committed to ensuring that the aid is used effectively. We want to focus our resources in a limited number of countries or in better targeted areas, but all of the analysis will be done to ensure we obtain good results.
[English]
Senator Andreychuk: My best wishes on your portfolio, which I think is one of the most important and underrated cabinet positions.
Yesterday we heard from Robert Fowler by video conference. He laid out some of the success stories and dilemmas involved in the Canadian aid process. I want to ask you about a point I asked him.
Canadians want to help and they want to see success, but often we see the headlines, which are concerned with humanitarian issues and not development aid issues. Humanitarian issues, as Mr. Fowler pointed out, can turn into development. For example, in Darfur we started out with humanitarian intervention, but the expectation is that we will continue to assist and help, and that distinction from humanitarian to development will be lost.
That situation is a dilemma in itself, but we often make announcements and we intervene in Africa at a crisis point, with humanitarian aid. That crisis intervention makes it difficult for Canadians to judge whether we have done an effective job with our development aid, because we have not defined, if I may say, and isolated the consistency of the development package. We are always mixing it with peacekeeping or humanitarian aid. Are you worried about that? Are you talking with your officials to get a consistent, proper message on development aid, as opposed to humanitarian or peacekeeping interventions?
[Translation]
Ms. Verner: I do not know if I fully understand the nuance in your question, but I can perhaps tell you about some success stories in Africa. Of course we do talk about humanitarian assistance, but development assistance also produces results.
When I took on my position, I asked the same kind of questions as you, senator. I was told about Ghana which, over several years, has held several peaceful elections with an enviable participation rate and that Canada had supported those peaceful and free election processes.
We also know that when democracy is set up in a country, there is more economic growth. That is what we really call development assistance; the country can take charge of itself, and subsequently determine its own priorities, and Canada can help that country with its development.
I do not know if I am answering your question fully. Perhaps one of the experts accompanying me can add to my answer.
[English]
Paul Hunt, Vice-President, Africa Branch, Canadian International Development Agency: Senator, you are asking how the Government of Canada manages its international assistance envelope. The essential point you are trying to highlight is how to protect the long-term investments in accompanying those partners who are doing the right things? How do you protect the investments the partners who have the potential to meet the millennium development goals and show leadership, improve governance and reduce poverty, while not abandoning those situations of crisis and urgency that appear from time to time as a result of a number of factors.
In managing its international assistance envelope the Government of Canada has separated out some of the funding envelopes that enable the Department of Foreign Affairs, CIDA and the Department of National Defence to provide long-term sources of funding through the development pool, and to provide resources through what is called the crisis pool. The government is equipping itself with financing envelopes that will allow us to reply to crises that are unknown today but which may appear tomorrow. A source of funds will be available for that, as well as a source of funds to project inside the development pool that longer-term and deeply committed level of resources that is required to accompany countries that Canada is working with in partnership.
Senator Andreychuk: That is exactly what my question was about. This information needs to be transmitted to the public in some way. That is where I think we are falling down. I do not think there is an understanding of what those differences are and why they are important.
How will we marry a number of things in the future? We want to focus on certain countries where we think we have some strengths that will allow us to partner with that country. Yet the international community continues to talk about impacting poverty in the poorest of the poor countries.
You mentioned Ghana. Ghana has made significant changes for a consistently sufficient period of time to warrant our continued involvement. However, some of the poorest countries where the people find themselves in the most destitute situations have horrific and undemocratic governments. They may call themselves democratic but they are not. On any scale, of course those are the poorest of the poor countries and we want to go there. Yet we do not see the aid as being productive there. It seems to get channelled and lost.
How will we square that problem?
[Translation]
Ms. Verner: Indeed, when the situation makes it impossible to work with the government, when the situation is unstable, the country must be stabilized. That is the way we work with other departments to stabilize the country, to lead it towards the benefits of democracy. While that process is underway, we work with the people and with Canadian NGOs or regional ones.
Senator Corbin: Welcome to this committee for the first time, Ms. Verner. I spent part of my life in the Quebec City suburbs, in a place called Charlesbourg. I really miss that part of the country. I wish you all of the best in your career as minister.
I listened attentively to your presentation. It is a good public relations document, but the situation in Africa is not all that rosy. I have been to Africa several times. The last time, with several of my colleagues, I spent two weeks in four of the poorest, most massacred countries of Africa, and I did not see the worst places, as there are places that are even worse.
I can understand wanting to boast about the millions of dollars that Canada contributes in Africa to various kinds of programs, but we are far, very far from meeting the needs of Africans in terms of support, infrastructure, and everything else. We had the privilege of meeting the former President of Mali and the current President of the African Union, Alpha Oumar Konaré. He told us that one of the major problems in Africa is communication between the states and the nations. There is a glaring lack of infrastructure. We cannot think about developing a country if we do not put infrastructure in place. We started developing Canada by building a railway from sea to sea. I do not think that it can be done differently in Africa — perhaps not with railways, but certainly with better communications networks, by building international and domestic roads. Are you involved in that kind of program, Madam Minister?
Ms. Verner: Infrastructure is an extremely important part of long-term economic development for Africa, and Canada is working — I am telling you about our work in this area — with like-minded countries and institutions, such as the World Bank, and in the case of Africa, the Africa Infrastructure Consortium. We agree that there must be infrastructure for development to take place. We are investing in those types of programs.
Senator Corbin: I have a series of questions, Mr. Chairman, that are related. International aid seems to focus on promoting social development and not private sector development. To what extent are you involved in the private sector, in developing banking, industrial and manufacturing capacity? Are you involved or not? If yes, to what degree?
Ms. Verner: The first example we can tell you about, senator, is the credit union movement. Micro credit is being provided in some African countries, namely through this institution.
Senator Corbin: We have heard from representatives of the Caisses Desjardins, which is very involved in Africa, so we are fully aware of those efforts. It is however a modest beginning. In terms of efforts to promote or further develop Africans' local industries, what are you doing there?
Ms. Verner: To go back to our cooperation with the private sector, namely in five countries more specifically, Mozambique, Mali, Tanzania, Ghana and Senegal, disbursements are made in conjunction with the private sector.
Senator Corbin: This committee has been told that approximately 45 per cent of Canadian aid was tied to providing Canadian goods and services, which is consistent with the OECD average. Should Canada take a stand in favour of completely untying its development assistance? If not, why not? And who is exerting the pressure in our country to continue to tie our aid to the provision of Canadian products?
Ms. Verner: I am going to ask one of the experts accompanying me to answer; Ms. Vincent.
Ms. Diane Vincent, Executive Vice-President, Canadian International Development Agency: Thank you for your question.
Senator Corbin: Excuse me, Mr. Chairman, but the witnesses have not been identified.
The Chairman: I think that I did it at the start of the meeting. Ms. Vincent is Executive Vice-President of CIDA, in charge of Africa, I believe.
Ms. Vincent: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for giving me the opportunity to answer your question. Often, when we are referring to tied aid, we are referring to food aid. Until quite recently, 90 per cent of food aid had to be tied to Canadian supplies. CIDA changed that decision; so 50 per cent of the food aid can now be untied.
For all of our other involvement in development, we have Canadian partnerships. Canadian partners invest in development and we invest with them. We often talk about tied aid, and we include partnerships with Canadian NGOs, the private sector, and so on.
I would however like to point out that when we co-invest with other Canadian partners, of course we use Canadian expertise and Canadian know-how, but Canadian partners, through their financing campaigns, invest almost as much we do in international development. We are looking at about $700 million per year.
Senator Corbin: Are you talking about NGOs or private corporations?
Ms. Vincent: Everything combined: universities, colleges, NGOs, the Canadian private sector. Together with them, in partnership, we invest $650 million per year. We know that Canadian partners will come up with human and financial resources of roughly $700 million per year. It is a very rich partnership that CIDA will continue, but as regards the provision of goods and services, we often refer to food aid. We are currently untying food aid.
Senator Corbin: CIDA, with the government's approval no doubt — I am not sure if that would be this government or the previous one, perhaps you could enlighten me — recently decided to increase from 6 to 14 the number of countries they were focusing on, their pet countries, as they are called in some departments. Those countries are Benin, Burkina Faso, Cameroon, Ethiopia, Ghana, Kenya, Malawi, Mali, Mozambique, Niger, Rwanda, Senegal, Tanzania and Zambia. What negative effect does the decision to spread our aid more broadly have?
At first, the federal government would deal with countries who had a good record in terms of governance, accountability, and so on.
Is it because the situation has progressively improved in other countries that our area of operations has expanded or is it for other reasons? And why not expand even further?
Ms. Verner: In answer to your first question, the decision was made by the previous government. I am told that the decision at the time was made because the rate of success in the six first countries meant that aid could be provided to a greater number of additional countries.
Senator Corbin: I visited Mali with my colleagues. Mali is one of the poorest countries in Africa. Would it not have been more worthwhile to increase our aid to Mali and to leave it up to other western countries, such as wealthy European countries, to have their own pet countries, which would then allow Canada to accomplish more in countries as desperately poor as Mali? Would it not have been better to see this country through, to set a goal and to reach it, before moving on to something else, rather than spreading ourselves throughout the continent?
Ms. Verner: In terms of Mali, aid is also increasing in that country. The previous government decided to increase thenumber to 14 countries, but it should be pointed out that that is 14 countries out of 53, so that is not a very high number.I assure you, however, that our aid continues to increase in Mali.
[English]
Senator Downe: Welcome, minister. I am glad you could attend the meeting today.
You repeated something said by a previous minister when she was here, that Africa represents the greatest development challenge, the top global priority in this area. However, this committee has been informed that only 50 per cent of the CIDA budget is spent in Africa. Has that figure increased to match the priority?
[Translation]
Ms. Verner: In the budget, 60 per cent of the increase in aid went to Africa, so I believe that is an increase.
[English]
Senator Downe: Are you telling the committee today that more of the CIDA funding is going to Africa than has gone in the past?
[Translation]
Ms. Verner: I would like to add that Canada allocated approximately 60 per cent of its new official development assistance resources to Africa between 2001 and 2005.
The Chairman: I think the senator is raising the issue of CIDA's total budget; what percentage of that budget was sent to Africa?
[English]
Senator Downe: The minister has informed us that there is some progress: 60 per cent of the new money is going to Africa, which is higher than the 50 per cent we were getting before, but the chair is correct.
Of the total percentage of CIDA funding, what percentage goes to Africa? Obviously, Africa is the greatest problem, and you have identified it, as did the previous minister, as the major priority.
If it is a major priority, and the bulk of the poverty is in Africa, why is the bulk of the money not going towards the poverty that we have identified?
[Translation]
Ms. Verner: I will ask one of the officials accompanying me to answer your question on the percentage of assistance sent to Africa. I believe Mr. Hunt can answer that question.
The Chairman: For the benefit of my colleague Senator Corbin, Mr. Paul Hunt is the Vice-President of the Africa Branch and he appeared several times before this committee during the first session of the 38th Parliament.
Senator Corbin: We have known Mr. Hunt for many years.
[English]
Mr. Hunt: I am pleased to be back and accompanying my minister and colleagues, and it is great to be here at this committee.
To my memory, the total envelope available to CIDA in2005-06 is $3.1 billion. Of that, in round numbers, the total Official Development Assistance, ODA, to Africa is $1.5 billion.
It is important to note that the trend line of the change, in terms of the total level of resources going to Africa, has, since 2000, started to make an important turn-around. As the minister said, as new resources have become available to the agency, it has made investment decisions to direct an important portion of those increasing resources to Africa. The minister also said in her remarks that there will be continuity in that respect as well, with Africa remaining an important priority in the investment strategy of the agency.
I have had the pleasure and privilege of being associated with Africa. Other parts of the world are also poor and have many development challenges as well. Part of the aid-effectiveness challenge is to establish priorities for, establish focus for and accompany key partners that make those leadership decisions, to change and make progress in their own national context.
There has been a tremendous opportunity to accompany this change in Africa with the new partnership for Africa's development. Many of you have cited a number of countries where things have gone extremely well in the last few years. That progress has created opportunity to accompany those reform efforts by new leadership in Africa. Canada, through CIDA and other organizations, has made real efforts to accompany that change as well. As the minister has underlined, we will want to continue to do that as we see the progress taking place.
Senator Downe: Thank you for that elaboration. My concern is that we continue to have a disconnect between the words and the action — the funding and money that we send in assistance. In the words of this minister and the previous minister, ``Africa is the top global priority.'' You referred to it as an important priority. We were advised at a previous meeting by the previous minister after a series of questions on the major funding at the time from CIDA, that more funding was going to Afghanistan than to any African country.
My concern, and I wonder whether the minister shares it, is whether she will follow the Minister of National Defence? Will he set the priorities with CIDA coming in after the fact, trying to use their limited resources for additional priorities that are not the first priorities?
[Translation]
Ms. Verner: I am just checking those figures. I understand that the previous minister made statements on a few points. I would like to correct some figures and give you the example of Ethiopia, where our total spending for 2004- 2005 was approximately $107 million. For example, we provided humanitarian and development assistance in that country. Perhaps someone would like to add to my answer concerning funding?
Ms. Vincent: If the committee would like to have more detailed figures on the amount of funding that goes to Africa, approximately 35 per cent of CIDA's budget went to Africa in 2001-2002 and approximately 50 per cent in 2004-2005. As international assistance increases, a greater concentration of that assistance goes to Africa. Some countries, like Haiti and Afghanistan, have required specific assistance at a specific time in their history. I would like to follow up on one of my colleagues' comments. There are very poor people in many parts of the world. Therefore, we are being consistent in focusing assistance on Africa.
[English]
Senator Downe: I agree that many countries all over the world are in terrible shape but the government cannot say on the one hand that Africa is the priority without on the other hand, following it up with sufficient funding. Is the minister concerned that the Harper government does not have Africa as one of the top five priorities? Will she be able to get the necessary funding?
[Translation]
Ms. Verner: Our government has five priorities, which does not exclude acting in other areas, on the contrary. The numbers I just gave you indicate that we will be doubling our assistance to Africa between 2001 and 2006, providing almost $5 billion.
Senator Corbin: I would like some clarification. My question is to Ms. Vincent. When you send us those more detailed figures on our African investments, could you please break those numbers down into strictly humanitarian assistance, which is used in situations of conflict, for example in Darfur and elsewhere perhaps, and development assistance within the strictest meaning of the word.
I would like to be able to compare both figures in order to get a clearer idea of the situation and of the relative increase in assistance.
Ms. Vincent: Yes, fine.
[English]
Senator Di Nino: Ms. Vincent, I believe, made a comment earlier that there has been some change to devote more of the Canadian development packages to partnering in investment development with both NGOs and the private sector. I would like to take a few moments to develop this idea of partnering with the private sector. We have heard often during our deliberations that after 40 or 45 years of giving aid to Africa, little success has been achieved, although there have been some wonderful examples. Long-term aid can create dependency and do more harm than good in the long run.
I am particularly interested in the idea that partnering with the private sector could result in more permanent opportunities for Africa and Africans. It could be a good way to tackle this big problem. Can you give us some examples of the kinds of things you are doing with the private sector, after which I will follow up with a couple of questions?
[Translation]
Ms. Vincent: Institutions work in Africa in order to help build institutions that will be used by their private partners from the south. The minister gave you the example of Développement international Desjardins that developed a network of credit unions throughout Senegal and Burkina Faso, for example. Furthermore, there is a private sector investment fund. I would like to ask my colleague to explain what this investment fund for Africa does and how it attracts investments from the Canadian private sector to Africa.
[English]
Mr. Hunt: I would add a comment or two specifically in respect of the Canada Fund for Africa, a $100-million investment initiative by the government to leverage private-sector funding. The principal purpose of this investment fund was to help facilitate private sector investment in Africa, to mobilize Africa's private sector and to mobilize the Canadian and international private sector to bring greater foreign direct investment to Africa.
To pick up on Ms. Vincent's point with respect to working through Canadian organizations, Canada has undertaken a range of other initiatives to help tackle some of the issues that many of you have outlined already with respect to private sector growth, the challenges of infrastructure and looking for economies of scale in infrastructure at the sub-regional level and pan-African level.
[Translation]
You have already met with DID. There is also MEDA, from Manitoba, and these are two organizations, amongst others, that have an excellent reputation in terms of their work withmicro-credit and micro SMEs in Africa. These organizations are present throughout several countries.
CIDA and the Government of Canada can find those partners and work with them for the benefit of these countries, and work with the SMEs in the regions of those countries, in Africa.
[English]
There are a number of other ways to help stimulate aprivate-sector investment trading environment, one of which is working through an organization such as the Economic Commission for Africa. A small example is where Canada has helped that organization put in place a capacity of expertise and advice to African trade ministers to enable to them to participate more equitably in the multilateral trade negotiation rounds, through the World Trade Organization Ministerial Conference at Doha. Canada is working through African ambassadors in Geneva who are called on a weekly basis to negotiate fine points of text around these international trading agreements. It is an excellent combination that is able to produce interesting results at a variety of levels — the micro-finance level, investment and investment opportunities, the trading environment, building up the capacity of African institutions and African actors and, where appropriate, looking for capable leading-edge Canadian capacity to accompany that.
Senator Di Nino: That is great, and I applaud that. That is probably the only solution to allow Africans to solve their own problems. Having said that, can we record into our report some specific examples, such as, ``We created 15 chicken farms,'' or ``We were able to help assist in the creation of some enterprise that makes boots for export?'' Do we have any such examples?
Mr. Hunt: Yes, we do. We can provide them to the committee, but I will take the opportunity to mention the Industrial Cooperation Program within CIDA. This program draws on the talented expertise and energy of Canada's private sector when it seeks to go abroad and pursue new business opportunities. The program looks to create joint ventures and joint investment opportunities. These opportunities are exactly the kinds of examples you referred to, creating manufacturing and tertiary types of businesses, where Canada, through CIDA, accompanies those business people to expand their business operations. At the same time, the businesses generate employment, revenue and tax returns for the local governments, to have the requisite social impacts and positive environmental impacts in the areas they are working. We could share with you many positive examples of that.
[Translation]
I am thinking of a person in Montreal, for example, who diversified his business in Quebec, to include Western Africa.
[English]
There is a long list. I do not know them all by memory. There are too many. I would like to take you to one of their meetings and you could meet them all.
Senator Di Nino: We should invite them here. For the purposes of the record, I am happy to hear what you are telling us, because this is one of the few times we have heard such statements.
In effect, you are saying that if I have an enterprise that manufactures T-shirts and I want to go to Ghana, Mali or Tanzania and open up a little factory, if I put in some money, CIDA will partner with me in that kind of a venture. This is assuming I gave you sufficient information to believe it is a viable operation.
Mr. Hunt: The short answer is yes. Through the auspices of the Industrial Cooperation Program, if you intend to behave as an investor and create a joint enterprise with an Africa counterpart, CIDA will not take an investment position in that new business venture of yours, but it will contribute resources to allow you to train your new personnel. This training will allow you to bring in Canadian technology that is cutting edge and to offer aworld-class business operation from Ghana. It will also allow you to ensure that your Ghanaian operation takes advantage of local skilled labour that is well trained and using cutting edge technology.
The Government of Canada, through CIDA, will not take an investment position, but will accompany Canadian business investors that choose to behave in that fashion. That program fits into issues around global supply chain and changing business strategies on the part of Canadian companies and at the same time, building a private-sector base in Africa.
That needs to be accompanied by decisions the Government of Canada has made in 2003 to no tariffs and no quotas, which is part of the opening-up of the global marketplace as well. It was an important gesture to signal that Canada's marketplace was open to least-developed countries, LDCs. There are many ways to help reinforce that.
Canada cannot do it all. Some of that energy must come from domestic resources in countries in Africa that are offshore at the moment and need to be brought back onshore and translated into economic energy for employment, investment and growth.
Senator Banks: I am here today in the stead of Senator Mahovlich.
Senator Corbin: But you are speaking for yourself.
Senator Banks: I am.
The Chairman: Does that mean you have to ask a question about road construction?
Senator Banks: I will digress from Senator Mahovlich's usual questions.
Minister, I join with my other colleagues in wishing you well in your present portfolio. It is nice to hear good news stories, some of which you have told us. For clarification and overview, I will ask a question that is quite specific. I do not expect you to answer it right now, but I would ask you to send the answer to the clerk.
When you talked about doubling international assistance from the 2001-02 levels by 2010-11, I presume you were talking about a figure that included both developmental and humanitarian aid. They are both in that same package. Is that correct? I see there are guests nodding. If that is so, would you let the clerk of this committee know, so that we can all be advised, what the amount of that international assistance was in 2001-02, what it has been in each successive year up to and including 2004-05, and what the projected numbers are on an annual incremental basis between now and 2010-11.
In answer to Senator Di Nino's question, you described the kind of partners with whom you would not take an investment position in the sense of equity. I presume that the remaining people to whom you referred earlier with whom you are partners in this undertaking are mostly non-governmental organizations that would be described colloquially as charities of some kind. Is that correct?
[Translation]
Ms. Verner: Are our partners only NGOs, is that your question?
[English]
Senator Banks: I am asking about the partners you mentioned earlier with whom you partnered. I think you said they raised about $700 million a year. You said CIDA had $650 million, and the partners came in with $700 million to co-invest in the undertakings of CIDA. Are most of those partners NGOs who came up with that $700 million?
[Translation]
Ms. Verner: Thank you for your question and thank you for having repeated it. To come back to the budget increase, it will have doubled by 2010 and will reach a total of $5 billion. We will send you the yearly amounts as you asked.
In terms of partners having contributed up to $700 million, that answer was provided by the vice-president of CIDA. I will ask her to repeat what she said.
[English]
Ms. Vincent: The $700-million figure is a statistic collected by Statistics Canada in 2003. They did an all- encompassing survey of Canadians — private sector, NGOs and so on — to ask how much money they gave to international development in 2003. The total figure is $700 million. The money does not necessarily mean only partnering in specific project with CIDA. However, in our programs, we have a condition that they need to bring resources as a partner.
Senator Banks: Is all of the $700-million figure in money or is some of it in-kind contributions, such as services?
Ms. Vincent: I have to double-check that. This statistic is according to the definitions of Statistics Canada, but I will be pleased to come back to you with this definition.
Senator Banks: Thank you. I will talk about Afghanistan for a moment. I know we are talking about Africa today, but Canada's foreign policy with respect to peacemaking and/or peacekeeping envisages what is called a three-block war. In block one, you fight tooth and nail with the enemy; in block two, you pacify the folks; and in block three, you are involved in development and making things more stable. We understand CIDA is involved in the third block. Is that an ongoing policy of CIDA, and do you think it makes sense so far?
[Translation]
Ms. Verner: Mr. Chairman, I thank the senator for his question, but my government never adopted any three-stage policy aimed at first, waging a war, second, stabilizing the country and thirdly developing it. To get good results in development, we must be sure that the country is stable. The population needs to be convinced. You give Afghanistan as an example. Let me tell you what my commitment is in this regard. The population needs to be convinced that the democratically elected government has the right solution for the country's future. This is what we are working to do. We must understand that some parts of the country are more at risk, more fragile and that in order to carry on with our international aid, and to help the population achieve democracy, we must make sure that it can all be done in a secure environment. This is mainly how we view things in Afghanistan and it applies to all other parts of the world.
[English]
Senator Banks: Regarding CIDA's participation in Afghanistan, are you satisfied that what is going on there right now is working, appropriate and effective?
[Translation]
Ms. Verner: This is a very long term commitment. We know that this country is very poor after having gone through many years of war. Now, we have some results, and some of them have been announced to the public. Let me mention Ms. Celine Galipeau, a very well-regarded Radio-Canada journalist, who has seen the progress over there, especially for women and children who are now asking the government not to withdraw from Afghanistan. We simply cannot let this population down after having told it that democracy might be a solution for itsfuture. As for concrete examples, let me tell you that in Afghanistan, there are more than 4 million children now registered in school, and nearly a third of them are girls. Let us recall that just a few years ago, girls were not allowed to go to school. Women, I daresay, were sometimes treated like cattle.But now, some women are making headway; micro-credit is offered to 157,000 clients in Afghanistan and let me tell you that 78 pour cent of those who took advantage of this micro-credit were women and let me also add that 99 per cent of the loans are paid back.
[English]
Senator Banks: Mr. Chairman, I apologize for having gone to the subject of Afghanistan, but a movement of Canadian interests into Darfur has been mooted and one assumes that some of the same policy would follow.
[Translation]
The Chairman: Madam Minister, I would like to ask you whether your officials can give us some information when they send us files regarding the sums of money. When I analysed the CIDA report over the years, I saw that there was a distinction among certain categories. Could you provide the committee with figures regarding these distinctions? It would help us a great deal.
[English]
I believe there is development aid versus humanitarian assistance. It would be good for us to look at the comparable numbers on that, as well as on multilateral programs, geographic programs and NGO private sector organizations. Comparisons of CIDA versus the International Assistance Envelope wouldalso be helpful. If we can look at those numbers from 2001 to 2005, I think it will help the committee do the analysis we are trying to do.
[Translation]
The question I want to ask the minister is about the $1.5 billion dollars — which is a large amount for a Canadian citizen — but with respect to the great challenge posed by Africa, it is not necessarily a sufficient amount. So I think that, in order to represent ordinary Canadians, I would like to put this question to you as minister of the Crown. It is very clear. Is it better to divide this $1.5 billion among many programs and many countries in Africa, or would it be better to choose one or two priorities such as the anti-malaria initiative with mosquito nets, as was suggested in a recent report? This is something that allows Canadians to see the success of a coordinated program, that is directed towards a goal, and we do not necessarily have to spread the money over many programs, all of which are important, but in which we might not succeed all that well? I know that it is not easy to say that we are going to make a major choice while leaving all other issues aside. As a minister of the Crown, could you give us your point of view?
Ms. Verner: As you know, in the Speech from the Throne, our government mentioned the effectiveness of the aid program. I also asked my parliamentary secretary to deal with this issue in committee. We are waiting for the suggestions to come forward. I asked my department's personnel to study this matter as it had been mentioned in the Speech from the Throne.
Senator Corbin: I have three points. Is CIDA contributing to any programs aimed at eliminating child slavery in Africa?
Ms. Verner: Thank you for your question. Some things are being done through UNICEF.
Senator Corbin: Is CIDA directly involved?
Ms. Verner: There are programs for children. Perhaps Mr. Hunt can fill us in on the specifics.
Mr. Hunt: This part of our programs deals with children. It is an important sector that is concerned with education and the situation of children in African countries. Up to now, we have tried out several models, and the one that worked very well was the UNICEF model and that of a few Canadian organizations that were specifically targeting the situation of children in the workforce —
[English]
— taking children from one country and employing them in other countries in production.
[Translation]
Senator Corbin: But it is even worse than that. I am raising the issue of families selling their children into slavery. I saw twoin-depth reports on this recently on TV5. This practice iswide-spread in some parts of Africa. It is not an education issue, the point is that we want to completely eradicate this shameful practice. Are you involved in these efforts?
Ms. Verner: You are right. These are shameful practices. We are involved through international programs like UNICEF, which is very much involved with this kind of issue.
Senator Corbin: Regarding the genital mutilation of young girls, I put this question to CIDA representatives a few years ago: are you still involved in the effort to eradicate this absolutely abominable practice?
Ms. Verner: I agree with you, this practice is absolutely atrocious, but there are programs. Recently, an amount of$15 million was invested in the Democratic Republic of the Congo for this program. And there are challenges. There are religious beliefs involved but, of course, education is still the basic principle.
Senator Corbin: It is important for you to be involved. One final point. When your colleague, the Minister of Foreign Affairs, Mr. McKay, appeared before this committee, I tried to encourage him to keep an eye on what is going on, with the Minister of Finance, at the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank. In the conversations that followed the meeting with departmental officials, I was told that we would need to focus more on the policies and practices adopted by these two large global financial institutions.
I think that you, Madam, as the minister in charge of CIDA and the Francophonie, should also take an interest in what is being done by these financial institutions in the developing world.
Apparently, there is a crying need for coordination. This is why some very bad errors were made in some countries in the past. I am not asking you for an answer. I would just like to ask you to be attentive to the activities of the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund, and especially their development programs in Africa. Some things that you learn might surprise you. You must get involved. The Department of Foreign Affairs must be involved, and not only Canada's finance minister. And that is my sermon.
The Chairman: Madam Minister, on behalf of my colleagues of the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs, I thank you very much for your presentation, your statement, your clear and straightforward answers, as well as the answers given by the officials representing CIDA. We hope that you understand our deep attachment to Africa and our commitment which will be positive despite the difficulty. I encourage you to carry on with your work in Africa which remains a priority for us here in this committee.
The committee adjourned.