Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Legal and Constitutional Affairs
Issue 18 - Evidence, December 7, 2006
OTTAWA, Thursday, December 7, 2006
The Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs met this day at 9:25 a.m. to consider a draft report on the motion, together with the message from the House of Commons dated November 21, 2006, concerning Bill C-2, providing for conflict of interest rules, restrictions on election financing and measures respecting administrative transparency, oversight and accountability.
Senator Donald H. Oliver (Chairman) in the chair.
[English]
The Chairman: Honourable senators, I should like to call this meeting of the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs to order. This morning, we are continuing our consideration of Bill C-2. We now have before us a draft report dated Thursday, December 7, 2006.
Honourable senators have a copy of this document, in English and French. I understand there have been, and will be more, amendments and changes to this document since it was drafted. What I would like to do is to go through this report paragraph by paragraph. When honourable senators have an amendment they wish to propose, they can stop the chair, make the proposal and we will consider it.
The Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs has the honour to present its
EIGHTH REPORT
Your Committee, to which was referred the motion of the Honourable Senator LeBreton, P.C., dated November 22, 2006, and the message from the House of Commons, dated November 21, 2006, relating to amendments to Bill C-2, An Act providing for conflict of interest rules, restrictions on election financing, and measures respecting administrative transparency, oversight and accountability, has, in obedience to the Order of Reference of Thursday, November 23, 2006, examined the said motion and message and now reports as follows.
Is that agreed so far, senators?
Some Hon. Senators: Agreed.
Senator Joyal: I would suggest that with respect to the penultimate line — ``examined the said motion and message'' — a comma should be inserted after the word ``message'' followed by the addition of the words ``heard witnesses.''
The Chairman: Is that agreed, honourable senators?
Senator Stratton: The honourable senator should read Eats, Shoots and Leaves.
The Chairman: The addition of ``heard witnesses'' after the word ``message.'' Is that agreed, honourable senators?
Some Hon. Senators: Agreed.
[Translation]
Senator Joyal: In French, there should be a comma after ``message,'' followed by the words ``entendu des témoins.''
[English]
The Chairman: Next:
Your Committee recommends:
That the Senate concur in the amendments made by the House of Commons to its amendments 29, 98 and 153 to Bill C-2, An Act providing for conflict of interest rules, restrictions on election financing and measures respecting administrative transparency, oversight and accountability;
Are there any errors, omissions or amendments there, honourable senators?
Some Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: The next paragraph reads as follows:
That the Senate do not insist on its amendments 4 to 12, 14, 15, 18 to 20, 22 to 24, 28, 30, 31, 68, 69, 71, 80, 83, 85, 88 to 90, 92, 96, 100 to 102, 107 to 110, 113, 115, 116, 118 to 121, 123, 128 to 134, 136 to 143, 145, 147 to 151, 154, 155 and 157 to which the House of Commons has disagreed;
Any errors, omissions or changes in that passage, honourable senators?
Senator Milne: No.
Senator Day: Agreed.
The Chairman: The next paragraph reads:
That the Senate do insist on its amendments 2, 25, 34 to 54 —
Some Hon. Senators: No.
Senator Day: That entire paragraph is to be changed with the addition that has been given to you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman: Senator Day, do you want to move that this be deleted?
Senator Day: Yes. I would be pleased to move that the paragraph beginnings ``That the Senate do insist'' be removed and that a separate paragraph that has been circulated be inserted in its stead.
The Chairman: Is that agreed, honourable senators?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Does everyone have a copy of the document that begins ``Do insist''?
Some Hon. Senators: Yes
Senator Day: The heading ``Do insist'' is for reference. That will not be part of the text.
The Chairman: The top part is in English and the bottom part in French.
Senator Day: Correct.
The Chairman: Senator Day, this is the part that you would like to have inserted after the word ``disagreed''; correct?
Senator Day: That is correct. We have two amendments to that paragraph.
The Chairman: I will now read into the record the new portion, which will replace the paragraph that has been deleted that comes after ``disagreed.''
That the Senate do insist on its amendment number 2 because it must be clearly recognized that the two Houses of Parliament are not public sector entities in the same way as are federal departments and agencies, which are in fact bodies responsible to Canadians through Parliament; and that the Senate do insist on amendments 25, 34 to 54, 55(a) to (d), 55(e)(ii) to (viii), 56 to 62, 65 and 94, since these amendments, which deal with the Senate Ethics Officer, are of significant importance to the status of the Senate of Canada as a constitutionally separate and independent House of Parliament, and reflect the practice of other Westminster based parliamentary democracies.
Now, honourable senators, I understand there are some amendments to that language, and I will now entertain those.
Senator Day: You have two amendments. The first one is just for consistency. In the first line, it is not necessary to use the word ``number'' before 2. We strike the word ``number.''
The Chairman: Is that agreed, honourable senators?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
Senator Day: The second amendment is as follows: Three lines from the conclusion of that particular document, adding, after the word ``status,'' ``and privileges.'' So this line would read:
. . . Senate Ethics Officer, are of significant importance to the status and privileges of the Senate of Canada . . . .
The Chairman: That is an addition of two words. Is that agreed, honourable senators?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Senator Joyal for the French.
[Translation]
Senator Joyal: Line 3 in the French version would henceforth read as follows: `` . . . le conseiller sénatorial en éthique, sont très importants pour le statut,'' and the words ``et les privilèges du Sénat du Canada'' would be added.
[English]
The Chairman: Is that agreed, honourable senators?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
[Translation]
Senator Day: There is no need to say ``l'amendement numéro 1'' in French. The word ``numéro'' can be deleted.
[English]
The Chairman: Is there agreement, honourable senators, to add, at the beginning of the first paragraph, the word ``that,'' and in the French, ``que''? Is that agreed, honourable senators?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Honourable senators, as I was not party to this I want to make sure that someone from the government, Mr. Wild or someone, could confirm that these paragraph numbers are in fact what has been agreed.
Senator Day: I think that is a good idea, Mr. Chairman. We also have one other amendment to the concluding paragraph.
The Chairman: Let us do the amendment before I call on Mr. Wild.
Senator Day: Thank you. I should like to propose adding, Mr. Chairman, after the word ``accordingly'' at the end of that paragraph the words ``and seek their concurrence.''
The Chairman: This is the paragraph that begins, ``That a message be sent to the House''?
Senator Day: Yes.
The Chairman: Honourable senators, you have heard a request to add four more words — ``and seek their concurrence.'' Is that agreed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
[Translation]
The Chairman: And what about the French version, Senator Joyal?
Senator Joyal: The last line would read: `` . . . qu'un message soit transmis à la Chambre des communes pour l'en informer et requérir son consentement.''
[English]
The Chairman: Is it agreed, honourable senators?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
Senator Bryden: I propose that the last paragraph, as amended, be read in full.
The Chairman: The last paragraph reads as follows:
That a Message be sent to the House of Commons to acquaint that House accordingly and seek their concurrence.
Senator Bryden: Thank you.
The Chairman: Agreed, honourable senators?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Senator Day, are there other amendments to the eighth report?
Senator Day: Mr. Chairman, I have no other amendments, and I believe there are no other amendments from any of my colleagues.
While Mr. Wild is checking the numbers, perhaps I could say that this document reflects a compromise. As such, I should like to thank all honourable senators for working towards a compromise that is acceptable.
The Chairman: Thank you, Senator Day.
Mr. Wild, I have asked you to comment. I saw these documents 10 minutes ago for the first time. There are many numbers referred to therein that I am not acquainted with. I know you have been involved, and I want your assurance on the record that these numbers do reflect what was agreed.
Joe Wild, Senior Counsel, Legal Services, Treasury Board Portfolio: I have reviewed the numbers and they reflect the agreement.
The Chairman: Apart from the numbers, is there anything else in this draft eighth report that is inconsistent in your mind, or is it consistent with the agreement that was forged?
Mr. Wild: In my mind, the report is consistent with the agreement.
The Chairman: Thank you.
Are there any other matters on this report to come before the committee at this time, honourable senators? Honourable senators, because there have been changes, amendments, to our document, the document must be retyped and translated. Hence, I should like to have a motion to give power to the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure to approve the final report based on the discussions at this meeting this morning. Is that agreed, honourable senators?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Honourable senators, do I now have your agreement to adopt the report, as amended, and to table the report in the Senate this afternoon?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chairman: Is there any further business to come before the committee at this time, honourable senators?
Senator Day: I think it would be appropriate, having worked with you, Mr. Chairman, for six months now on this matter, to thank you sincerely for the fine work you did in directing this committee.
The Chairman: Thank you very much.
Honourable senators, this meeting is now adjourned.
The committee adjourned.