Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Agriculture and Forestry
Issue 1 - Evidence - Meeting of November 15, 2007
OTTAWA, Thursday, November 15, 2007
The Standing Senate Committee on Agriculture and Forestry met this day at 9:10 a.m., pursuant to rule 88 of the Rules of the Senate, to organize the activities of the committee.
[English]
Jessica Richardson, Clerk of the Committee: Honourable senators, there is a quorum. As the clerk of your committee, it is my duty to preside over the election of the chair. I am ready to receive a motion to that effect.
Are there any nominations?
Senator St. Germain: I nominate Senator Fairbairn. We would all like to nominate Senator Fairbairn.
Senator Gustafson: I nominate Senator Fairbairn.
Ms. Richardson: It is moved by the Honourable Senator Gustafson that the Honourable Senator Fairbairn take the chair. Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to accept the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
Ms. Richardson: I invite Senator Fairbairn to take the chair.
Senator Joyce Fairbairn (Chair) in the chair.
The Chair: Thank you, colleagues, as we head into yet another vigorous and difficult year.
We now want to focus on the election of a deputy chair. Do I have a nomination?
Senator Callbeck: I nominate Senator Gustafson.
The Chair: All in favour?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: You are now the deputy chair. We need a Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure. May I have a mover for that motion?
Senator St. Germain: I so move.
The Chair: I will read it. It states:
That the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be composed of the Chair, the Deputy Chair and one other member of the committee to be designated after the usual consultation; and
That the subcommittee be empowered to make decisions on behalf of the Committee with respect to its agenda, to invite witnesses and to schedule hearings.
Could I have a mover?
Senator St. Germain: I so move.
The Chair: Is it agreed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Thank you.
Next on the agenda is the motion to print the committee proceedings. May I have a move for that motion?
Senator Peterson: I so move.
The Chair: The motion is that the committee print its proceedings, and that the chair be authorized to set the number to meet demand.
Is it agreed to, honourable senators?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: The next item is authorization to hold meetings and to print evidence when quorum is not present. Can I have a mover for that motion which states:
That, pursuant to rule 89, the Chair be authorized to hold meetings, to receive and authorize the printing of the evidence when a quorum is not present, provided that a member of the committee from both the government and the opposition be present.
Senator St. Germain: I so move.
The Chair: Is it agreed, honourable senators?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Thank you.
Next is the financial report. I believe you all have that in front of you. Can I have a mover for the motion that the committee adopt the draft first report, prepared in accordance with rule 104?
Senator Peterson: I so move but, first, how does this report compare to the budget?
Ms. Richardson: For 2006-07, we were about $200,000 under budget. For 2007-08, we were under budget significantly more than that because the northern trip did not happen. However, I do not have the exact figure.
Senator Peterson: Thank you.
The Chair: Is it so moved?
Senator Peterson: Yes.
Senator St. Germain: Yes.
The Chair: Is it agreed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Item 7 is research staff. May I have a mover for that motion? You have the motion in front of you. Do you wish me to read it?
Ms. Richardson: It is up to the committee.
Senator Callbeck: No, I will move that.
The Chair: So moved by Senator Callbeck. Is it agreed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: At this point, I invite our troops to the table. Without them we could not do the things we do. Welcome back.
I now want to look at the authority to commit funds and certify accounts. May I have a mover for that motion? I will read it:
That, pursuant to section 32 of the Financial Administration Act, and section 7, chapter 306 of the Senate Administrative Rules, authority to commit funds be conferred individually on the Chair, the Deputy Chair, and the Clerk of the Committee; and
That, pursuant to section 34 of the Financial Administration Act, and section 8, chapter 3:06 of the Senate Administrative Rules, authority for certifying accounts payable by the committee to be conferred individually on the Chair, the Deputy Chair, and the Clerk of the Committee.
Can I have a motion to that effect?
Senator Peterson: I so move.
The Chair: Is it agreed, colleagues?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Item 9, travel, is next. Can I have a mover for this motion? It states that the committee empower the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure to designate, as required, one or more members of the committee and/or such staff as may be necessary to travel on assignment on behalf of the committee.
Senator Gustafson: I so move.
The Chair: Is it agreed, colleagues?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Thank you. Item 10, designation of members travelling on committee business, is next.
May I have a mover for the motion that is on our agenda? Do you want me to read it?
Senator St. Germain: I so move.
The Chair: Is it agreed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: No. 11, travelling and living expenses of witnesses, is next. May I have a mover for that motion?
Senator Callbeck: I so move.
The Chair: All agreed?
Senator Gustafson: I have a question. Are we talking about one witness or a number of witnesses?
Ms. Richardson: It is one witness per organization, unless a second one is approved by the chair or deputy chair in exceptional circumstances.
The Chair: Absolutely. We must be prudent.
Item 12 is the electronic media coverage of public meetings. May I have a mover for that motion?
Senator Peterson: I so move.
The Chair: Is it agreed, colleagues?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Thank you. Item 13, in camera meetings, is next. May I have a mover for that motion?
Senator Gustafson: I so move.
The Chair: Is it agreed, colleagues?
Senator St. Germain: I have a question. I have not seen that motion. Is that a blanket motion?
Ms. Richardson: Some committees choose to adopt this motion. It was the practice of this committee, when it went in camera last session, that one staff member per senator was allowed to be present. The motion was passed for all sessions rather than having to adopt the motion every time you go in camera. It is up to a committee whether it adopts the motion.
The Chair: Are you fine with that?
Senator St. Germain: Yes.
The Chair: Thank you, colleagues.
We are now at item 14, the time slot for regular meetings. The time slots for committee meetings are Tuesdays after the Senate rises, but not before 5 p.m., and Thursdays at 8 a.m.
Last session, we had agreed to meet at 7 p.m. on Tuesdays to accommodate certain members whose schedules gave them some difficulty.
Would members like to continue this practice, or would you prefer to meet earlier?
Senator Peterson: Can it be flexible? I prefer to meet at 5 p.m. Do we need to accommodate them all the time or only sometimes?
Ms. Richardson: It is at the committee's discretion.
Senator Peterson: Can we say 5 p.m., and then be flexible?
Ms. Richardson: As clerk, I suggest 5:30 to ensure that all members have a chance to eat dinner prior to the meeting, but it is entirely up to the committee.
Senator Gustafson: I prefer 5 p.m. There may be some who travel after the meeting.
Senator St. Germain: For Tuesday meetings it would be at either 5 p.m. or 5:30 p.m. but not before the Senate rises?
The Chair: Yes: Should we stay with five o'clock?
Senator Peterson: Yes.
The Chair: All agreed?
Some Hon. Senators: Agreed.
Senator Mahovlich: Chair, I have a conflict on Tuesdays at 5 p.m. as I sit on the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Trade.
Senator Baker: Yes, it meets at exactly the same time.
Senator St. Germain: We all have conflicts. I have one on Thursday mornings with the Standing Joint Committee on the Scrutiny of Regulations, but I would sooner be with you people.
The Chair: Two of our members are on the Foreign Affairs Committee, which meets at 5 p.m.
Senator Baker: No, it is only Senator Mahovlich.
The Chair: We do not know about other members who are not present.
Ms. Richardson: Last time there were two.
The Chair: Is there any discussion on this issue?
Ms. Richardson: We had been meeting at 7 p.m. to accommodate that conflict. That was agreed by the committee last time, but it is up to the committee what it wants to do. It is good to discuss it at the beginning.
Senator Peterson: Since he is on another committee, we need to meet at 7 p.m., otherwise this will not work. Their meetings are always at five, and not only once in a while. You might want to find out how many others are affected who are not here.
Ms. Richardson: It does not have to be decided today. We could choose to discuss it at a future meeting.
Senator St. Germain: Does the leadership of the respective parties not govern conflicts? This item is not something a committee can negotiate. The leadership of the respective parties must determine what committees they want their members to be on and must put them in a position where they are not in conflict.
Senator Callbeck: I imagine they assumed that our time was seven because that is what it has been.
Senator Mahovlich: Why change from seven?
I thought seven was okay. I had dinner before, and it worked well.
The Chair: We were talking about that before you arrived, Senator Mahovlich. If we have senators who cannot attend, and we have only two slots in a week, would colleagues like to revisit that motion and consider staying with our seven o'clock time slot?
Senator Gustafson: Given the situation that exists, this problem will be ongoing for the government side simply on numbers. It will be something that we cannot help when we have only a few members. It will not be that big a problem for the opposition side, with their numbers. One way or another, there will be conflict in terms of attendance.
The Chair: Should we start with seven o'clock?
Senator Callbeck: I would agree to that.
Senator Peterson: This year they sent out a list of the times for all committee meetings. The year before they did not, and I had the same problem. I requested another committee and then learned that the Agriculture Committee and the Energy Committee sat at the same time, so I had to leave one of them, and you said I had to leave Energy.
This situation was all predicated on seven o'clock, so I do not think we can change it now, because that would throw everything out of order. I am okay with seven o'clock.
The Chair: Is it agreed that it will be seven o'clock on Tuesday nights?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: I will need your authorization for our order of reference to be passed in the chamber.
You all have a copy of it.
Ms. Richardson: We did not put the final date on it, because that is a decision for the committee.
Because it is our ongoing general mandate, I would recommend a long date. For the rural poverty study, it depends on the amount of work the committee decides to do, as to when we would be able to report. We can always put a longer date and report sooner, but it is up to the committee. I did not want to assume dates on behalf of the committee, so I left that blank. For the present state and future, I recommend either June 30 of 2008 or December 31 of 2008, because that mandate is our general one that we keep renewing, and we can address anything under that one.
The Chair: So far, that has served us well.
Senator Gustafson: Given the problems we face, especially in the cattle industry, there will be many requests to appear before the committee from farm groups. I suggest we move as quickly as we can to finalize the report so that we have an opening to accommodate the problems that we will face in agriculture. I think that our researchers have lots of material to write reports on.
Senator Baker: I am looking at the work that is been done so far and the projected work that needs to be done before a report or interim report can be finalized. I am wondering if the report will be conclusive in any way. The concern is the comparative analysis section of the committee work, which I have noticed here. It is a key element in this report. If it will have a conclusion, then certainly the comparative analysis of what is happening in other nations is a necessary component of the committee's study. Without that analysis, we are studying the problem in a vacuum.
I do not know, Madam Chair, if you have decided whether the committee will travel to other countries in the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development. Perhaps you have already discussed this matter. Perhaps you have already determined that you will not go to the headquarters of the organizations that study and assemble the information that you are looking for. The other issue is whether you will do it by long distance communication. Based on my past experience, I do not think it would be a good idea to do so.
Am I making any sense, Madam Chair?
The Chair: Yes, we have discussed this matter in the past. At this point in time, do we want to go in camera to further this discussion, or are you okay with outsiders?
Senator Gustafson: Again, the problem of numbers from our side is a major problem. The message keeps coming: There will not be a lot of latitude for travel.
Senator St. Germain: I think the question of poverty will be exacerbated by the fact that the cattle industry is in trouble. For instance, as I was in the process of building a new farm, I bought cattle last year; I bought a smattering. I kept them and fed them all summer, shipped them and lost $150. That is peanuts compared to what is happening.
A rancher in Manitoba bought 4,700 head. He fed them all summer, shipped them to market and he is losing $80 a head. There is a crisis out there. I guess you are familiar with this situation, Senator Fairbairn, because the feedlots in Alberta are shutting down.
I am not trying to interfere with the travel process, but I support what Senator Gustafson said. Travel will be complex for us to deal with because of our numbers. That having been said, that should not hinder the progress of the committee.
We have some real problems to deal with. People will want some of these agricultural dilemmas to appear before the committee.
Senator Gustafson: I want to add to what Senator St. Germain said. I heard of 13 dispersal sales in one week's auction in Alberta, and one major feedlot operation projected they would lose $250 a head. The reasons are, of course, the high price of feed and the fact that the Canadian dollar is going up.
This situation now becomes a major North American problem.
The Chair: Senator, do we want to have a discussion on this issue before we make a decision. If so, should go in camera for that discussion. I think we should so we can be as frank as we wish to be. This matter does not need to take a long time. Okay? Thank you.
The committee continued in camera.