Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Foreign Affairs and International Trade
Issue 1 - Evidence
OTTAWA, Tuesday, November 13, 2007
The Standing Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Trade met this day at 5:30 p.m., pursuant to rule 88, to organize the activities of the committee.
[English]
Gérald Lafrenière, Clerk of the Committee: Honourable senators, there is quorum. As clerk of the committee it is my duty to preside over the election of the chair. I am ready to receive a motion to that effect.
Senator Stollery: Clerk, I have been talking to my colleagues about this, and we are having serious discussions.
Senator Di Nino: Good thing the camera is not here.
Senator Stollery: Honourable senators, I nominate Senator Di Nino for the chair.
Senator Corbin: I thought you were nominating me.
Senator Stollery: I was. I am nominating Senator Di Nino.
Mr. Lafrenière: Any other nominations? Seeing none, it is moved by the Honourable Senator Stollery that the Honourable Senator Di Nino do take the chair of this committee. Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
Mr. Lafrenière: I declare the motion carried. I invite the Honourable Senator Di Nino to take the chair.
Hon. Consiglio Di Nino (Chair) in the chair.
The Chair: Thank you, honourable senators, for your vote of confidence. It will be an interesting few months, with what has been happening in Ottawa. I look forward to fruitful discussions and engaging in interesting studies on a variety of issues.
The second item on the agenda is the election of a deputy chair. I would like to have the honour to nominate my colleague, Senator Peter Stollery. We paid each other $5 to for these nominations in case anyone is questioning it. Is he getting his money's worth or am I? I nominate Senator Stollery as the deputy chair of this committee.
Senator Mahovlich: Are you allowed to do that — nominate each other?
The Chair: It depends on what you say. If you do not complain we do whatever we want. Any other nominations? I gather nominations are closed, so by unanimous consent, Senator Stollery is the deputy chair. You have 15 minutes as a respondent.
Senator Stollery: I thank the honourable senators for electing me deputy chair. As the first item of business, we need a steering committee, and I move Senator Corbin as the third member of the steering committee. That is my motion. We have had the consultations.
The Chair: The agenda says it is officially called the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure. You propose the name of Senator Corbin as the third member of that committee. That creates the chair, the deputy chair and Senator Corbin. As it states in the procedures of the Senate, it will be after consultation, which has taken place, correct?
Senator Stollery: Yes.
The Chair: I also want to make sure people understand that the motion includes — I am sure Senator Stollery will agree — that the subcommittee be empowered to make decisions on behalf of the committee with respect to its agenda, to invite witnesses and to schedule hearings.
Do we have any other nominations for that third member of the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure?
The clerk is telling me something.
That motion has been agreed upon. Thank you kindly.
The Chair: Let me go through the rest of these motions relatively quickly, if I can. I would like a motion to print the committee's proceedings.
Senator Peterson: I so move.
The Chair: All in favour?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Thank you. The fifth item on the agenda is a motion to authorize the holding of meetings and the printing of evidence when quorum is not present. Senator Mahovlich moves the motion. Are we all in agreement?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Passed. The sixth item on the agenda is that the committee adopt the draft first report prepared in accordance with rule 104. Have we circulated that draft? A copy is being circulated.
Can I suggest that we go back to that, and we will go to item 7, the motion on research staff. You can read it. It is a standard motion, to ask the Library of Parliament to assign analysts, and to authorize the chair to seek authority from the Senate to engage the services of a variety of different counsels such as clerical and technical persons. The Subcommittee of the Agenda for Procedure will be authorized to retain the services of such experts as may be required, that the chair on behalf of the committee direct the research staff in the preparation of studies, et cetera. I would like a motion to that effect.
Senator Stollery: May I make a motion?
The Chair: Certainly.
Senator Stollery: The last one or two sessions, there has been an agreement for the deputy chair to meet occasionally with the staff. That is all I wanted to add.
The Chair: I would say.
Senator Stollery: It has worked perfectly. We have not had any problems.
The Chair: I think any member of the committee that wishes to discuss affairs with the staff at any time should have that privilege. I do not have a problem with that.
I need a motion on No. 7 — the research staff, et cetera. All in favour?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: If I can go back to No. 6, we now have the first report, which is really an expense report on the expenses incurred by the committee during the first session. You will notice it is detailed. It deals with a variety of issues, mainly relating to transportation and communication; that is, the travels of the committee, professional services and some witness expenditures.
This report is the standard first report to be submitted, which will be submitted tomorrow assuming that it is approved by this committee.
Senator Stollery: An explanation may be required for the numbers in the report. Committee members have traditionally attended certain conferences, and I think the amounts reflect conferences that members have gone to, authorized by the steering committee. Sending large groups is expensive, and our system of conference attendance has been effective. We are conscious of budgets, so that is how those numbers were arrived at.
The Chair: The expenses of $179,000 in one case and $35,000 in another is not all for conferences. The figures include some conferences, but it is mainly for travel of the committee. I agree with Senator Stollery that the figures include some funds that we budget every year for conferences for members of this committee when appropriate and when authorized.
Senator Stollery: You are right; the rest of it was our second study trip.
The Chair: I would appreciate a motion to that effect.
Senator Corbin: Before that, there is an item with respect to witness expenditures. In the case of item 1, legislative studies, there is an amount of $6,687. There is none for witness expenditures in item 2. In item 3, the amount of $629 is listed for witness expenditures for the special study on Africa, which I find incredibly low, and there is zero for witness expenditures in the other items.
The Chair: Item 5 is $3,157.
Senator Corbin: I forgot that one.
Does the committee pay those witnesses or does that money come out of the budget of the Clerk of the Senate? There has been some confusion in the past with respect to that expenditure. We do not know which witness is paid and which is not. I would like to see more information with respect to that item in the future.
The Chair: We can give the committee a breakdown. It is simple to do that, but generally, if my understanding is correct — and I know the clerk will correct me if I am wrong — when witnesses ask for reimbursement or travel costs, we pay for them if we want to hear from them. Most times they do not ask, at least in our experience. The work on the Africa report is carried out mainly in Ottawa and on our trips out, so the expense would be ours. I cannot tell you exactly what the expense of $3,157 for the softwood lumber report was, but on that study we invited witnesses to come and we paid travel expenses, living expenses or both.
That item is not a major one in our budget, but if you wish to have a breakdown of the amount, we would be happy to provide that for you.
Senator Corbin: It should be public information and it should show up in public accounts. It does in other jurisdictions, and I think it would be useful information to have.
The Chair: We can easily do that.
Senator Mahovlich: You spoke of our study on Africa. Does this go way back to our trip to Africa?
The Chair: This is for the second component of the last session only.
Are there any other questions on the report?
Senator Corbin: I move its adoption.
The Chair: All in favour?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Thank you. That is passed.
Item 8 is authority to commit funds and certify accounts pursuant to the Financial Administration Act and the Senate Administrative Rules.
Senator Smith: I so move.
The Chair: Is that agreed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
Senator Corbin: The way that reads, it can be done individually.
The Chair: After approval of the program and the budget, someone must take the authority to expend the funds and certify them.
Item 9 is that the committee be authorized to travel.
Are there any objections?
Senator Peterson: I so move.
The Chair: Is that agreed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Thank you.
The next item is designation of members travelling on committee business. The motion is that the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be authorized to determine the status of official business for the purpose of the Senators Attendance Policy, and consider any member of the committee to be on official business if the member attends an event or meeting related to the work of the committee or to make a presentation related to the work of the committee.
It is a standard motion.
Senator Corbin: I so move.
The Chair: All in favour?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: The next item is on travelling and living expenses of witnesses. That is the authority for us to pay witnesses when appropriate and when required.
Senator Peterson: I so move.
The Chair: All in favour?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: The next motion is for authority for electronic media coverage of public meetings.
Senator Rivest: I so move.
The Chair: Is that agreed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Item 13 is that time slots for regular meetings are assigned to us by the leadership. Our time slot is on Tuesday when the Senate rises but not before 5 p.m. and on Wednesday when the Senate rises but not before 4 p.m. Minor changes will be made from time to time, but that is when we are authorized to meet.
The problem on our side is that there will be conflicting meetings from time to time, so it will be a challenge for some senators, but we will do our best.
That is all the resolutions that we require to conduct business.
Senator Stollery has one item to propose dealing with the Africa report.
Senator Stollery: First, I think the steering committee should meet. We can discuss the agenda among ourselves. We all know each other here. There is no attempt to do anything on the sly; it works out more practically that way. The same people have had thoughts in the last session.
In terms of the Africa report, I would like to see a motion in the Senate to adopt the Africa report. I need say nothing more.
The Chair: Senator Stollery and I had a brief discussion on that, and I agree that it is appropriate for us to have that approved by the Senate.
Would you like to make that motion tomorrow, Senator Stollery, since you were the chair at the time?
Senator Stollery: I will make the motion.
Senator De Bané: Mr. Chair, on that question, I stand to be corrected, but I have talked about it with the people who advise us on procedure, and I understood that this committee has already presented its report on Africa to the Senate. That has been done. Any additional move must be made in the Senate and not in our committee.
The Chair: I agree totally. The question was raised, and I asked Senator Stollery if he would make a motion to that effect in the Senate either tomorrow or the day after; whenever he feels is an appropriate time. Does everyone understand that? Thank you kindly.
Senator De Bané: The motion will be put in the Senate and not in this committee.
The Chair: No, it will be in the Senate. This is more for information.
Senator De Bané: Does it need our approval?
The Chair: It does not, but I think it is courtesy that we do that.
Senator De Bané: It is already in the Senate.
Senator Stollery: It is dead.
Senator De Bané: The motion must be put in the Senate. That is what I understand.
The Chair: Precisely.
Senator Dawson: Is there any legislation in the pipeline waiting from the other place. Is there anything that will be accelerated or any bills that we know will be brought to us?
The Chair: I do not expect anything to be accelerated, but I expect to see, at some time, Bill C-293, which is Senator Dallaire's bill. We dealt with it last time, and it is being reintroduced.
I am going by memory, which is always faulty, and I may not have seen them all, but the motion by Senator Segal about the European Union free trade agreement would be an item that properly should be referred to this committee. I do not know if you were there today when we discussed it. He needs an amendment to the motion. I think someone on your side has taken the adjournment. I suspect that item is probably coming.
Our responsibility is always to government business first. The other business we will do as diligently as we can, but the committee has, other than in government business, certain leeway to decide its own priorities. If the Senate deals with those two items, they will likely to be sent to us. Can someone help me if there were any other bills?
Senator Stollery: To brief everyone, we might as well have a heads-up on Bill C-293. Are we in camera?
The Chair: No, but we can change to in camera.
Senator Stollery: I think we should go in camera because we are having discussions amongst ourselves.
The Chair: We will now go in camera, please. Normally, it would be appropriate to have these discussions in camera.
The committee continued in camera.