Proceedings of the Standing Committee on
Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration
Issue 1 - Evidence for November 29, 2007
OTTAWA, Thursday, November 29, 2007
The Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration met this day at 8:33 a.m. to consider administrative and other matters.
Senator George J. Furey (Chair) in the chair.
[English]
The Chair: Good morning. First, to refresh colleagues' memories and for the benefit of newcomers, last year Internal Economy approved international travel for Senator Munson from October 2 to 11. Senator Munson has a problem with respect to his airline ticket, so he is here this morning to speak to us about it.
Senator Munson: Good morning colleagues. It is a pleasure to be before you today. I am here to explain the discrepancy between an economy class ticket and a business class ticket. When the trip was approved, a clerical error happened and an honest mistake occurred when I presented my estimated cost for this trip, which was based on an economy class ticket. When we booked the trip, I did not notice the error, for which I apologize. As a senator, I am entitled to travel business class to these events, and the cost of the business class ticket certainly was much greater than the estimated cost of the trip based on an economy class ticket. I caught the error at the last minute. It was an honest mistake, and I apologize for the fact that my costs were higher than anticipated. That basically explains the situation.
The Chair: Before we go to questions, Senator Munson, what exactly was the difference in cost?
Senator Munson: The ticket cost $8,004, and an economy class ticket to Shanghai can cost between $2,500 and $4,000. That is where the difference in cost was incurred.
The Chair: Any questions, colleagues?
[Translation]
Senator Robichaud: I really do not understand. You said economy class, then business class and then first class.
Senator Munson: I speak French a little, but I was plugged into the wrong channel.
[English]
Senator Robichaud: You mentioned economy class, business class and then first class.
Senator Munson: No, I meant business class. There is no such thing as first class. We travel business class.
Senator Stratton: Yes, there is.
Senator Munson: The 16-hour Air Canada flight from Toronto to Shanghai has business class and economy only. Perhaps there are first class tickets but this was a business class ticket. The discrepancy is substantial between economy class and business class. For example, when the committee approved my journey two years ago to attend the Special Olympics in Nagano, the ticket cost $8,499 — a little more. As I mentioned, this has happened because of a clerical error. Of course, this committee should have been informed once the ticket was booked a few months later. I did not do that and I apologize; but, as I say, a clerical error was made.
Senator Cook: I would like you to enlighten me. Your application was approved for a five-day trip and your trip lasted 11 days. Could we have an explanation?
Senator Munson: The letter I received from the chair —
The Chair: To interrupt, we discussed this matter in the steering committee. The actual approval, Senator Cook, was for October 2 to 11, and a briefing note we received from Senate Finance referred to October 2 to 7. In fact, I asked the secretary to check the minutes of our meeting, and the approval was for October 2 to 11.
Senator Downe: On that point, are you saying that the notes before us are in error?
The Chair: That is correct.
Senator Downe: Given that we have to base decisions on information we receive from officials, my question is this: When was this error discovered and why were we not informed prior to this meeting?
The Chair: It was discovered late last night when Senator Munson informed me when we were discussing coming to the meeting this morning. I spoke to officials this morning and found out about 10 or 15 minutes ago.
Senator Downe: I appreciate that, but the key concern I had was that it appeared, and it is erroneous now, that the senator stayed for five days that he was not authorized by this committee to do; but that is not correct.
The Chair: That is not correct. The committee authorized travel for October 2 to 11, and I said that at the beginning of this meeting. I probably should have elaborated more, Senator Downe.
Senator Cowan: That was my point, chair. I understand the air ticket, but I could not understand the difference in the dates.
Senator Comeau: Were the estimates for the trip done by the department?
The Chair: No, they were prepared by Senator Munson's office.
Senator Comeau: What is the clerical error to which we are referring? Is it the five days?
The Chair: No. The clerical error Senator Munson is referring to is that his office budgeted for an economy class ticket when in fact he travelled business class because he thought that it had been budgeted for. He is looking for the balance of the difference in costs.
Senator Comeau: It was a clerical error in his office and not in Senate Finance.
The Chair: No, Senate Finance wrote the briefing note with respect to October 2 to 7 as opposed to October 2 to 11.
Further questions, colleagues? If not, thank you, Senator Munson.
Senator Munson: Thank you very much.
[Translation]
Senator Robichaud: The information on the sheet before us is in error.
[English]
It has been approved for nine days and on that sheet there are 11 days between "planned" and "actual."
The Chair: We approved travel for October 2 to 11, nine days.
Senator Robichaud: What we have here refers to 11 days.
Senator Munson: I can briefly explain. Given the time zones and time differences, and because a meeting on Canada- China disabilities was happening on the Sunday before the games at a global summit on intellectual disabilities, I left Canada on Saturday, September 29, to arrive, because of the time difference, on Sunday, October 30 in the afternoon. In the afternoon, I got off the plane to attend and to participate with 30 Chinese organizations and government officials. I was also representing the minister of sport at those talks. I felt it was important to get my feet on the ground to attend meetings as soon as I got off that 16-hour flight. I used the next day to prepare for subsequent meetings and the games themselves. That would explain the two days. I did return on October 11.
Senator Comeau: I have a question regarding the accommodation. I note that the planned cost was $517 and it turned out to be $2,750.
Senator Munson: With all due respect to China, this is China. I was informed by the Special Olympics people that we were going to be getting our accommodation at "cost rate." I stayed at one of the three official Special Olympics hotels where you are picked up by mini-buses and escorted everywhere. To my surprise, the bill was $240 a night. What was I to do? I went along with the flow. I was first informed by Special Olympics that all 160 countries had been negotiating these rates, but the rates were wrong. I stayed at the same hotel as some of the team, and they had a Special Olympics Canada rate.
Senator Nancy Ruth: Do we have a policy that allows for cost overruns on occasions such as this? Is there any standard?
The Chair: Each application is dealt with on an individual basis, and if there is an overrun it comes back to the full Internal Economy Committee.
Senator Munson: As a senator, if there is a lesson to be learned — and for a person like myself it was a serious lesson learned — it is to keep tabs on the exact expenditure and to inform Internal Economy immediately of any discrepancy. My trip to Japan was in the same range two years before.
I should have sent a letter or called the chair or asked for a meeting to simply explain what had happened in the last month or so. We made our submission early in the year. I went in October. Things evolved. As I say, it was a clerical error regarding the airfare, economy class to business class, and I paid the price.
The Chair: Is there anything further, colleagues?
There being nothing, thank you, Senator Munson.
Before we move to the next item, we will go in camera, make a decision and inform you promptly, Senator Munson.
The committee continued in camera.