Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Official Languages
Issue 4 - Evidence - Meeting of April 14, 2008
OTTAWA, Monday April 14, 2008
The Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages met this day at 4:03 p.m. in order to study and report from time to time on the application of the Official Languages Act and of the regulations and directives made under it, within those institutions subject to the act.
Senator Maria Chaput (Chair) in the chair.
[Translation]
The Chair: I call this meeting to order. First of all, I would like to introduce myself. My name is Maria Chaput, I am a senator from Manitoba, and I am the chair of the Senate Committee on Official Languages. To my left, the deputy chair of the committee, Senator Champagne, from Quebec, Senator Murray and Senator Comeau. And to my right, Senator Tardif, Senator Goldstein and Senator Jaffer.
Today we are considering the 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games in Vancouver. Honourable senators, let me introduce the witnesses who were invited to appear here today: from the Organizing Committee for the 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games in Vancouver, Mr. John Furlong, Chief Executive Officer, and Ms. Francine Bolduc, Director, Workforce and Official Languages; from the Fédération des francophones de la Colombie- Britannique, Mr. Stéphane Audet, Director General; and from the Fédération canadienne pour le dialogue des cultures, Mr. Marc Arnal, President.
Welcome, everyone.
I would like to remind everyone that the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages is tasked with studying and reporting from time to time on the application of the Official Languages Act and of the regulations and directives made under it, within those institutions subject to the act.
The committee is hearing from you today in order to follow up on its report entitled Reflecting Canada's Linguistic Duality at the 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Games: A Golden Opportunity.
We ask that you make a presentation of no longer than five to seven minutes, and then the senators will ask questions.
[English]
As chair of the committee, and on behalf of our members, I would like to thank you for your appearance before us today.
Mr. Furlong, would you like to begin with opening remarks?
John Furlong, Chief Executive Officer, Vancouver Organizing Committee for the 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games: It is a pleasure for me to be here. I will quickly get to my presentation. It is good to have a chance to come before the committee and give you an update on where we at Vancouver 2010 are.
My purpose here today is to describe for you how we are not just living up to our official language commitments, which originated for us in the multi-party agreement, but also, we believe, exceeding them and heading to a place where we feel that the results will be quite extraordinary for us and for the country.
We have always believed that the Olympic Games are an opportunity to showcase the unique linguistic duality of Canada. That is the course we have set for ourselves and that is what we have been trying to do for the past number of years. We are the only Olympic organizing committee in history that has a formal agreement with its own government in respect to this and we believe it is headed in a very positive direction.
From the earliest days, when we were just a small bid with very few people, we have now grown to quite a substantial organization with approximately 900 staff. We will, at some point in the not too distant future, have thousands of volunteers deployed to help deliver the Games.
We have worked flat out to integrate official languages into the organization. With us, it is cultural. It is not just about language; it is about living up to the spirit of what official languages are about.
Wherever you go in Vancouver 2010, official languages are there. We have a team whose life's work it is; and we are committed across the organization to living up to your expectations, and hopefully exceeding them and making the country proud. We have a profoundly positive relationship with the Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages, with Canadian Heritage and with other government departments in our work. As I said, I think it is going well.
When we started this work a number of years ago, we were a pretty small team. I had the occasion to meet with a senior official at Canadian Heritage, who suggested to us at the time that he did not believe that we would live up to our commitments, based on how we started out; that we would not be able to achieve the results we had agreed that we would try to achieve.
Today if you came and looked at our organization, we would like to think we have gone way past where we were then. We are not just living up to the obligations, but doing everything we possibly can to drive this into the culture of the organization. We hope, at the end of the day, you will be able to point to these Olympic Games in a very positive way, and point to other organizations that have similar responsibilities in the future in respect to our performance.
Our commitment is organization-wide. It is cultural. It will not be acceptable to Vancouver 2010 to deliver at 95 per cent. We have agreed to deliver at 100 per cent and we are tireless in our efforts to do this.
We have forged impressive partnerships. Today we have strong relationships with the francophone community, with the Fédération des francophones de la Colombie-Britannique and the Fondation canadienne pour le dialogue des cultures. There is a profound commitment on their part to help us achieve the success we all want to achieve.
Our goal is to do a very good job. We are well aware of the reports and the comments that have been made about us in the past. Today let me give you a quick snapshot of where we are.
At Vancouver 2010, about 25 per cent of the people who work in the organization can communicate well in both official languages. That is 25 per cent of our staff, which is dramatically above the average in the community. It is not an easy task because in order to fill these positions, we have to recruit them from other parts of the country. Because our project expires at the end of February 2010, that is a very challenging situation for us, but it is going extremely well.
Inside of the organization, we have volunteer classes in French. We have a strong commitment by our executive and across the organization to not just teach French but to have the organization embrace and celebrate French and the value of French in our country. We think this is going extremely well.
Outside of language, we have tried very hard to develop a commitment to the cultural Olympiad from the francophone community of the country. We just launched and completed the 2008 version of the cultural Olympiad. We had a significant amount of French programming. This will grow as we go forward.
The first interprovincial agreement between us and the provinces was with the province of Quebec. We regularly talk to Quebec and to New Brunswick about language, and obviously it is important to them, as it is to you, that we perform at a high level.
Many of our sponsors are from Eastern Canada, so this is easy for them. Wherever we are able to apply influence and pressure to have all our sponsors perform at a high level, we do that.
The unique thing about Vancouver 2010 is that all of the funds to stage the Games come from the private sector, give or take. There are funds invested by governments for specific purposes. Up to today, all of these commitments that we have made have come from funds that have been provided to us by our sponsors to deliver these services.
Today, if I was giving us a score, I would say we are dramatically ahead of where we were in 2010 and moving towards what we consider will be a very successful finish. At Games times, we are well set up to deliver at a high level across the board. We will have volunteers on the ground who can communicate effectively in French, as we need in other languages as well.
I believe that when the Games are over, based on where we are going and the cooperation that we have building, that we may well get the best report card that has ever been written about the performance of an organizing committee in this area. Certainly that is our intention. I think everyone knows it is our intention. In the organization, they would know this.
We have just completed an audit with the Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages here, and I believe that the results of that audit will be profoundly positive in that they will point to the fact that it is not just about ticking the boxes and saying that we are meeting certain standards, but that inside the organization that there is a high degree of appreciation for what this is about.
I want to give you one example of where we are trying to make a real effort. As I said earlier, we are trying to work with our partners and sponsors to do the right thing, to perform at a high level. One of the challenges for past organizations who have done this is that they have been not that successful at that. One of the areas where we had received some suggestion that we might have a real problem was at the airport in Vancouver. The airport is now a sponsor of the Olympic Games and the Paralympic Games. When you arrive at Vancouver International Airport for the Olympic Games, you will be arriving into a fully fledged Olympic stadium. You will be welcomed in both languages, and they will have staff and volunteers in both languages. It will reflect the best there is in this whole area. We believe this will set the stage well for what will unfold over the weeks that follow in the Olympic Games.
As much as we are able to, we are influencing our sponsors to perform at a very high level. We think it is going well. There is lots to do. Are there challenges? Plenty of them, but we are dealing with them the best way that we can.
Rather than continue, I will stop. I think I have probably used my time up. I would be happy to take any questions that you have.
The Chair: Thank you, Mr. Furlong.
[Translation]
Stéphane Audet, Director General, Fédération des francophones de la Colombie-Britannique: Madam Chair, I am the Executive director of the Fédération des francophones de la Colombie-Britannique. I am accompanied by Marc Arnal, President of the Fondation canadienne pour le dialogue des cultures.
Thank you very much for inviting us. I would also like to congratulate you on your work. We highly appreciate your dealing with this issue, and you have been dealing with it for some time already. Your report was very helpful and we appreciate that. We hope that you will keep up the good work.
The Fondation canadienne pour le dialogue des cultures and the Fédération des francophones de la Colombie- Britannique want to thank you for this opportunity to describe the progress we have made in promoting respect for linguistic duality in cooperation with the Vancouver Organizing Committee for the 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games.
You focused in your report on the reasons why the 2010 Winter Games are a matter of great importance for our country, and our communities. The 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games, says your report, provide an ideal opportunity for Canada to promote its linguistic duality throughout the country and abroad. This is also an opportunity to promote the development of official language minority communities, especially British Columbia's French-language community. What a splendid challenge, calling as it does upon the entire French-speaking community from coast to coast. The joint appearance of our two organizations before you confirms our commitment.
As you know, the Fondation canadienne pour le dialogue des cultures and the Fédération des francophones de la Colombie-Britannique have undertaken to respond to this magnificent challenge. On June 10, 2006, our two organizations signed the collaborative protocol with the Vancouver Organizing Committee for the 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games (VANOC). Since then, we have become partners determined to make the games a success. The francophone and Acadian communities of Canada, and in particular the francophone community of British Columbia, are here to make sure that these games fully reflect Canada's linguistic duality and to help make these games the most magnificent and best games ever. We support VANOC's mission: to touch the soul of the nation and inspire the world by creating and delivering an extraordinary Olympic and Paralympic experience with lasting legacies. In addition to the legacies, we are focused on the sustainability of what we are doing, both in terms of the human capital and the networks that are being created by VANOC and through our partnership, and in terms of infrastructure.
We believe in VANOC's mission: to build a stronger Canada whose spirit is raised by its passion for sport, culture and sustainability. One of the cornerstones of our Canadian society is its linguistic duality, and when its passion prompts Canada to celebrate with the whole world — thousands of athletes, thousands of tourists and millions of television viewers — it presents to the world the richness of this multi-dimensional linguistic duality and a typically Canadian interculturality with a British Columbian touch and perspective that is dear to us. It is not content merely to communicate with and serve the public in both official languages. That would reduce our collaboration to a simple test designed to look good under the gaze of the great witness.
Each of our two organizations, the Fédération des francophones de la Colombie-Britannique and the Fondation canadienne pour le dialogue des cultures, has developed an action plan; a national action plan to facilitate the participation, the involvement of francophones and Acadians from all across the country, and a provincial plan in British Columbia. Since we are the francophone host community, we have the huge responsibility of doing a good job of hosting all of these visitors. So we have these two action plans, which are complementary in many respects, but also convergent. They include pre-Olympic projects, preparations, and the participation of the entire French-speaking community from coast to coast while the games are taking place and in the management of their legacy.
It is not a question only of developing a temporary organizational culture that will promote the use of English and French in the months preceding the games and during the games themselves. This is why the 10 recommendations your committee carefully identified as the required or suggested instruments for assessing progress and identifying action needed in order to achieve our objectives are so useful.
As Pierre Lemieux, Parliamentary Secretary for Official Languages, said in Vancouver on October 20, when the federal government confirmed its support for the Fédération des francophones de la Colombie-Britannique as coordinator of British Columbia's action plan, the results of all this work will help to demonstrate what a unique place the French language occupies in Canada. The work has begun, and this is the time for us to make a preliminary assessment. We would like to proceed systematically, and review each of the 10 recommendations, and tell you where we are at with them.
The first recommendation mainly concerns the future, and the selection of other cities to bid on hosting the games. It does not concern us for the moment, but obviously, the experience gained in Vancouver in 2010 will be a useful model. Since 2005, VANOC has developed a lot of tools and expertise that should, in our view, enable Canada to leave a lasting legacy and contribute to the organization of future games that will give French a prominent place.
The second recommendation, while it is addressed to the federal government, has compelled us to consider the way we operate: in 2006, we had undertaken to cooperate in assisting VANOC to meet all its obligations and commitments with regard to official languages. The agreement was vague at the outset, but with the passing months, we have been able to develop mechanisms for effective cooperation. Thus, the three partners meet regularly, on a systematic basis. The FFCB takes responsibility for the province — we are, after all, the host community — and the Fondation pour le Dialogue, The Canadian Foundation for Cross-Cultural Dialogue, sees to the interests of the French-speaking community in the rest of Canada.
Sectoral committees have been struck to reflect this division of labour and facilitate communication, which is almost daily in some cases: business and tourism, education and youth, arts and culture, sports, leisure and physical activities.
As a result, the French-speaking community has been welcomed with open arms by the organizers of the cultural Olympics and we have had a lot of success in funding activities in British Columbia for the 2008 Games. We are developing coordination mechanisms for such projects as the Place de la Francophonie and the recruitment of volunteers.
You also recommend that the Minister of Canadian Heritage ensure that there is sufficient funding for the legitimate projects of francophone organizations in British Columbia. We are counting on support from the Federal Games Secretariat to ensure that these applications are favourably received. Other sectors of activity have already received concrete support from various federal departments and institutions, including tourism. The FFCB has also benefited from federal government assistance with the redesign of its website: the French-language Olympic site is now interactive and accessible. However, it must be said that as far as British Columbia is concerned, the funding was hard to get. So it would be important to be able to confirm future funding.
Your fourth recommendation deals more specifically with VANOC, and its obligation to be transparent about its strategies. There is nothing about the official languages in the progress report submitted by VANOC in July 2007, and nothing on the Games Secretariat site. We are confident, however, that VANOC's next report will describe the close cooperation we have established and the mechanisms that make it effective.
You also recommend in your report that there be a place on the board of directors for a representative of the francophone and Acadian community. The mission of the representative would be to work from within to ensure that VANOC keeps its commitments. We have assessed the situation and at this point in the preparations, with the broad directions established, it seems to us that it would be preferable to consider a mechanism for dealing directly with VANOC's senior management, including the president and the CEO. That was accepted.
Marc Arnal, President, Fondation canadienne pour le dialogue des cultures: Your sixth recommendation more specifically concerns the programming for the cultural celebrations. As Mr. Audet said, I think that for the cultural events, British Columbia's projects in particular have been very successful. We are also planning a major unifying project on Granville Island, which will be called La Place de la Francophonie and which will combine the efforts of francophone groups during the games. That will obviously include a lasting legacy.
The torch relay will require a great deal of attention and VANOC is doing everything that needs to be done to make sure that francophone representatives are included all along the way. I am proud to add that the participation of the Fondation and the Fédération has made it possible to develop a virtual relay that will accompany the physical relay. That is an addition to the programming that had already been planned.
As for television coverage, there has been a fair amount of negotiation. Some things remain to be confirmed, and from our perspective, it will be important to make sure that the French coverage highlights the significant number of English-speaking athletes who speak French, as well as francophone athletes from places other than Quebec, while obviously still giving Quebec athletes the coverage they deserve. I think that remains something of a concern.
Mr. Furlong spoke convincingly about the Vancouver Airport infrastructure. Obviously, hotels and tourism institutions will be encouraged to follow suit and develop — during the games and afterward — these habits, and to be sensitive to linguistic duality. The Commissioner of Official Languages, among others, could play a role in actively promoting signage.
Your final recommendations addressed one of the points we raised the last time we appeared before your committee. Routine matters have to be dealt with, and I believe that Mr. Furlong and his team have incorporated this concern into the VANOC culture. That is more or less what we were hoping.
Clearly, the closer the games get, the more things are going to get critical. The more things there are to do, the more opportunities for mistakes, and the more important it will be for this cultural habit to be a part of the overall operations of VANOC. I think that with the latest administrative accommodations we have made with the people from VANOC — Mr. Furlong and Ms. Bolduc, in particular — we have put in place mechanisms that will provide for better cooperation in this area.
Finally, judging by the impact the Calgary Games had on the city of Calgary and the province of Alberta, there is another legacy that must not be underestimated, and that is resetting the bar in terms of linguistic duality in the city and province where the games are held. Still today, in Calgary, there are vestiges of the Olympic Games in terms of signage and public attitudes. In our opinion, that remains an important legacy for the city of Calgary.
I am going to stop there, and together with my colleagues — and I do mean this — I will try to answer your questions.
[English]
Senator Jaffer: I want to first address my questions to you, Mr. Furlong. I want to congratulate you. You were modest in not saying that we are a lot further ahead in the planning stages of where we should be with respect to language, compared to where Italy and Greece were. I commend your team for getting this far along in the planning of how the duality will work.
I was also very encouraged, and I am sure my colleagues were too, when you said it was not enough to reach 95 per cent, you wanted to achieve 100 per cent. I ask that you take my comments with that in mind, that I am not being critical of you. As a British Columbian, I see this as my responsibility as well.
My one issue is that as you said, at the beginning that you were a small team and now you are 900. One of the concerns that I have is: You have one person looking after human resources and French language and you have 900 employees generally.
For example, Workopolis is the organization you have delegated across the country to get volunteers, is that correct?
Francine Bolduc, Director, Workforce and Official Languages, Vancouver Organizing Committee for the 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games: They are an online service provider to help us recruit.
Senator Jaffer: One of my concerns is when they have been recruiting in Ontario, they have just been doing so in English, and when they have been doing it in Quebec, they have just been promoting it in French. I suggest there is an issue of monitoring and supervising.
I would like to know from you what exactly is in the budget to ensure what you want will be achieved? What is the budget available to achieve what you want for both languages being promoted?
Mr. Furlong: Let me answer this way — and Ms. Bolduc can join in if she wishes. I am not sure exactly what the dedicated amount is, but I can certainly get you that number. There is a very broad and serious commitment.
It is unacceptable inside the organization not to perform at a high level. If a mistake is made, it is a mistake. If a sponsor doesn't take the right action or something happens where it is not the way it should be, it is because someone went offside. If it is pointed out to us, we will absolutely fix it.
It is a clear standard: We have two languages and we perform the same in both. What we are trying to do as we go forward is to improve it so that we do not even have to think about it anymore; it is just embedded in the DNA of the organization — this is who we are and how we are working.
There are quite a number of people inside Vancouver 2010 whose only focus is language. They are in communications, some are in human resources; they are in different parts of the organization. We are very focused on this. As I said, if it is pointed out to us that something is not quite right or does not appear to be right, you will get our full and complete attention and our action right away because it will not be acceptable to us either.
Senator Jaffer: I understand you do not have the amount. If you could provide it to the chair, that will help us.
My second question is on the translation budget, and this is an area where we are responsible, so I am not just going after you. I have just gone on to your website, and I will pass this print out to you. On your website, Mr. Furlong, there was a request for proposals, and on page 2 of what I provided, basically the gist of it is, "If you do not understand the English word, phone us and we will tell you the word in French.'' I do not think that is the standard you want.
On page 7, at 5.2, it talks about providing the proposals in English and or in French accompanied by a full English translation, and the English version of the proposal governs. I am very concerned about this. Our country being French and English, I am sure that now this has been pointed out to you, it will be corrected. I do not think this is the image that we will reach 100 per cent on.
Ms. Bolduc: That was brought to our attention a few weeks ago. This is not the level of standard that we have set for ourselves. That was one mistake that was pointed out, and we took steps to correct it immediately. We will accept proposals from any francophone association or groups that want to submit proposals for the cultural Olympiad in French only. We will accept it in French and either read it ourselves and assess the proposal or have it translated. We have corrected that.
Senator Jaffer: Has the website been corrected?
Ms. Bolduc: Not yet. I could not check it today. It has not been corrected, but someone is on it at this time. We will make sure it is corrected in the next few days.
Senator Jaffer: Mr. Audet, I want to compliment you. As a British Columbian, I feel very much a part of your federation, even though French is not my first language, because of your concept of bringing in people of third or fourth languages and making us all part of the French community. I congratulate you on your vision.
What is the state of the community and the VANOC? Have the community and VANOC fully engaged, and how does the French community view the engagement with VANOC?
Mr. Audet: It is an honour to work with our VANOC colleagues. We are good partners. We collaborate very well with them, and we have an employee in close contact and almost daily communication with VANOC employees. It is truly a pleasure to work into that building and to see the passion that animates the people working at VANOC. This collaboration has been ongoing for years. We have a kind of partnership that is looking at solutions. We go to the VANOC office and we look at issues and try to identify ways of doing things better.
The francophone community in B.C. is a very inclusive community. Our Francophonie includes 300,000 people who speak French, and that number is increasing rapidly. We want these people to feel part of the celebrations, and these games in 2010 are a great opportunity to let our community shine and allow it to show how dynamic it is and truly demonstrate that yes, on the west coast, there is a new kind of Francophonie that is forming. We are working differently. We are trying to be partners.
Our relationship with VANOC is hugely positive, and I am sure my colleague from the Fondation canadienne pour le dialogue des cultures would say the same. Our community organizations feel engaged right now, and I believe they have an opportunity to make a contribution and they want to make a contribution. They feel that these are their games, and they want to be involved and feel that they have made them the best games ever organized.
Senator Jaffer: I have no doubt that the closing and opening ceremonies will show our duality. I have no doubt that B.C.'s multiculturalism will be seen. I had some concerns about the airport, and what has been said about the airport is good news. Starting from the airport to the time the athlete arrives at the village, there is still a lot of work to ensure the dualities are reflected. We still have time. Do you see gaps where we will have to work to ensure that the duality is reflected?
Mr. Audet: As a spokesperson for the Fédération des francophones de la Colombie-Britannique, I do feel concerned at the level of resources available within that official languages office. There is a consensus in the community about this, and I am sure the Commissioner for Official Languages will state it in his report. In 2005, the core group was much smaller, and VANOC showed great leadership. They were proactive and developed tools and wanted to do it better than in the past. However, as time goes on, and given the responsibilities that the two people in that office have to shoulder, it has become such that we believe that the creativity and the innovative aspect are not at the same level as they were. They were very much ahead of the game, but now we feel that all these responsibilities are being added on to their shoulders and the same level of innovation and performance is not possible. We do have concerns in that respect.
I do believe that it is important to have a group of people at a high level that are responsible for official languages and to provide some oversight, and I would say horizontal oversight and coordination. That coordinating function is important. In each sector, there are directors and managers and employees responsible for delivery. I do have some concerns, and the B.C. francophone community does have some concerns, but we are very confident that VANOC is willing to look into these issues. With the new collaborative mechanisms that we have just instituted with the CEO and his most senior executive personnel, that we will be able to find solutions.
Senator Goldstein: Thank you, witnesses. I am certainly very encouraged to hear the level of commitment and concern that you have reflected, Mr. Furlong, and the satisfaction that Mr. Audet has indicated about the level of cooperation between your organization and VANOC. We understand that from time to time there will be glitches or little problems that arise. We are encouraged about the fact that you have stated that you have a commitment and you have reflected a commitment that those glitches will be corrected.
With respect to whether you can go beyond correcting the glitches, I think of the response of the minister to one of the recommendations we made in February 2007 about having some of the hotels broadcast the Games in French. The indication by the minister, correctly, I suppose, is that the CRTC does not control hotels. We understand that. However, is there any way in which VANOC can differentiate the level of hotels that are recommended and make it clear that there is an intention and desire and commitment on the part of VANOC that, for instance, French services be available in hotels and in restaurants. This could perhaps be done by using a very simple kind of mechanism and establishing which hotels and which restaurants provide services and provide cable in French and advertizing that amongst your guides to hotels and restaurants?
I raise that issue because sometimes you have to have encouragements and incentives to people to do what we have to do. We are very committed, as you are and as all Canadians are, to an enforced, applied and respected commitment to the official language policy, because that is one of the essential glues that hold this country together.
Mr. Furlong: Credit where credit is due; I wish I had come up with the idea because it is a good one, to talk to the hotels. I will give you an undertaking right now that we will do that. We will talk to the hotels and use whatever leverage we have to try and get them to draw down those signals and make them available to people that come here. It is a great idea.
The television issue is complicated in general. The situation is so complex because CTV is actually a partner of the IOC, and not a partner of Vancouver 2010. We all desire to have a superb outcome in television. In the last few days, we have been talking about trying to get all of the agencies and entities who have some influence in this area into a room to talk about how to solve this so we can provide the signals for the period of the Winter Olympic Games in the language people want wherever they live in the country.
That may sound simple, and I am sure it could be done. We are going to put as much time and effort into that as we can, and we have in the past; we would not have any credibility if we were not. We will use our influence everywhere we can to try to live up to the promise we made that we would celebrate the linguistic duality of Canada the right way, and we will.
Your idea on the ground in Vancouver and Whistler, about asking the hotels and leveraging that, I think that is a great idea. I give you my word that we will go back and start that process of encouraging them to do exactly that. I would be surprised if there is any resistance.
Senator Goldstein: Could you extend that to restaurants and other public facilities?
Mr. Furlong: Definitely.
[Translation]
Senator Losier-Cool: When the committee went to Vancouver, we asked the mayor of Vancouver about the possibility of creating francophone positions in hotels. The mayor answered the same way you did, Mr. Furlong. He indicated that there would be consultations along those lines with the hotels. There is someone who could certainly join your group for the purpose of meeting with hotel managers. Besides, the mayor appeared very open to that idea.
Senator Tardif: My question is for Mr. Furlong. First of all, I would like to congratulate you on your efforts to ensure respect for official languages and on your commitment to celebrating the linguistic duality of our country.
You told us about your commitment not just in terms of language, but also in terms of VANOC's culture and organization. Mr. Furlong, does that mean you have a champion of official languages on each decision-making committee at VANOC?
The committee is probably divided into subcommittees on security, welcome, media, health, medals awards ceremonies, opening and closing ceremonies. Do you have a champion for each of those decision-making subcommittees?
[English]
Mr. Furlong: There are two kinds of committees at Vancouver 2010 — committees of the board and committees within the organization that meet all the time, which are committees that work inside the team of 900 staff. I would say the French language is extremely well represented in every one of those. We have a pretty strong capacity now to deliver in French inside the organization.
At the board level, I would say that for most committees, there would be someone present who has their eye on that. Is it part of a strategy? I could not say that it is. Certainly, there is a high degree of awareness and we do have a director on our board who is a champion for this in the organization. He has one eye on it all the time. His name is Jacques Gauthier, and he is from Quebec. He is doing a great job and is very helpful and collaborative.
I am not saying we should not have more champions. We are very committed to this in the organization. However, we have gone past the point of having to stop and ask ourselves if there is something we need to do here. It has become more a part of what we do every day, notwithstanding that we do make mistakes.
I would say the level of commitment is there, but is there a specific champion in every area? There is not one identified for that purpose, but the French presence is strong.
Senator Tardif: I have a supplementary question.
Mr. Furlong, I understand that perhaps you have an overall champion looking at things, but on the day-to-day questions, it is important that you use the official languages lens in everything you do. If you are dealing with security or health issues, you ensure there are people in place, whether volunteers or not. There must be someone to take the decisions to assure that you will have a whole health team, for example, capable of working in French or English, depending on the situation. We have athletes from Quebec and English Canada and elsewhere around the world in other languages, but it is important that that lens be applied in transportation and communications, among other areas.
I think that often we make sure that we have an official languages presence in official-type ceremonies; but in the day-to-day planning of the event and in the coordination of those things, that is lost. Someone has to be there with the official languages lens in everyday matters, so when decisions are made at a high level, the issue does not get lost in the shuffle and then it is found to be too late to make changes or corrections.
Ms. Bolduc: I am kind of that lens and champion within the operation of the organization, being in charge of official languages. The way we decided to approach official languages from day one was to really create that awareness at the strategic level. In the development of the strategic plan, we have created that awareness.
Now that we are working on the operations and on developing the plans at the more detailed level, we are working very closely with each and every function that will be operating at the time of the Games to ensure they will deliver according to the vision of VANOC with regard to official languages. Then they become our champions, because they are in charge of functions and they are developing their operational plan at every level.
We are there and providing resources to them. We are making sure that it is ingrained into the planning of every single aspect of what they are responsible for.
[Translation]
Senator Tardif: Mr. Audet, is the francophone community involved on those subcommittees? Do you ensure a francophone presence on those committees?
Mr. Audet: We have quarterly meetings and the Games Secretariat is involved. VANOC invites the directors of the main sectors to make presentations, which gives us an opportunity to point out things that need to be improved and to identify problems that could crop up.
VANOC is not afraid of putting its cards on the table and they work with us to identify things that need to be improved. Some sectors are more successful than others. Those are the sectors we are more involved in.
The education sector has a tremendous teaching dimension. That will be a huge VANOC legacy. The francophone and Acadian communities are actively involved in this sector. The same can be said of arts and culture. However, some fundamental parts are played by third parties. Those are the more problematic sectors, particularly when you go from planning to operationalization. VANOC, from the start, has had a real tendency to go toward official languages.
They should really be congratulated, because the circumstances are rather difficult.
Now, let's talk about security, health and the commercial side of the games, that is, the sponsors, bilingual menus and signage. For these sectors, VANOC deals with third parties. As a result, there is not as much focus on official languages. In my opinion, these are the areas where their ability to intervene is lacking. That is why it is so important, as you said, to have champions in these sectors to ensure that agreements with third parties are respected when it comes to service delivery.
This means, among other things, services to athletes, health, security and the whole commercial side of things. Those are the sectors we have some concerns about.
Senator Tardif: I would encourage you to keep up those efforts. I would also encourage VANOC to monitor the situation closely. A failure to require companies to live up to their commitments is indeed very worrisome.
Senator Champagne: Let me just say how delighted I am to hear what a strong supporter of French you are. These Olympic Games are being held in Canada, where there are two official languages. This is a great opportunity for us to show the rest of the world what Canada is. However, we must not get it wrong.
Ms. Bolduc, you are in charge of human resources; could you tell me whether as part of your general hiring policy, bilingualism is an asset, a requirement or a necessity?
Ms. Bolduc: It all depends on the position in question. Some positions require French as a basic requirement. We encourage all employees. In the case of two applicants with the same skills, we give precedence to the applicant with French skills even if the position does not require that. Positions requiring French are filled with people who have that language skill. For other positions, French is an asset.
Senator Champagne: Mr. Audet, if I am not mistaken, at some point, the minister responsible for official languages provided financial support to your group in order for you to have a coordinator of francophone issues in British Columbia with VANOC. I was hoping that you could be part, for example, of the board of directors. However, you are not on the board and there is nobody there to keep an eye on the francophone dimension. Was the support from the department $150,000 or $160,000?
Mr. Audet: The support was $160,000.
Senator Champagne: Was it a one-year project or was it spread out?
Mr. Audet: The project was spread over two years, until 2009. The project we had submitted was supposed to last three years, but the funding that was approved was only for two years. That funding was hard to get. We had to fight for months in order to get it, which really surprised us. We believe in the ability of the francophone community in British Columbia to prepare and equip itself to welcome the whole world to Vancouver-Whistler and to contribute fully to the organization of the games. In our view, that is a strategic objective of the Government of Canada.
The government announced that it would spend $160,000 over two years in order to ensure that coordination. Unfortunately, we found out later that 50 per cent of that money would come from the budget for projects to support innovation in francophone associations of British Columbia. In providing for this coordination of national importance, the government has penalized British Columbia's francophone community and undermined critical projects for next year, which will have a dramatic impact on our community. The budget was small enough to begin with, so you can imagine that $80,000 will affect festivals, cultural celebrations, events and services to the public which will no longer be provided.
Senator Champagne: You mentioned some concerns about VANOC in a few sectors. Is it actually feasible to have a coordinator who is not on the board of directors? Are your quarterly meetings enough?
Mr. Audet: I cannot speak for VANOC, I can only speak for myself as director general of the Fédération des francophones de la Colombie-Britannique. It would probably be appropriate for VANOC to task a director who speaks French and has an interest in the francophonie with focusing on these official languages issues and intervening with the legitimate representatives of the francophone and Acadian communities.
[English]
Senator Champagne: That might be a very good suggestion, Mr. Furlong. Could you have someone from your board meet a little more frequently than every three months with the francophone community? When they are worried about something or they have something important to suggest, it may not take three months for you to be made aware of it. It is difficult for you to take action about something when you are not aware of it.
Mr. Furlong: We do not have to wait every three months to have meetings. We will meet whenever the community wants to meet with us. I have no hesitation in asking the director, who is the most proficient in this area, to be available, who would be happy to do it at any time. We are partners and have a relationship. We are working together. We both have a common vision about how this needs to play out. There is no resistance. I think this is how we have structured this relationship up to now. We could meet as often as is necessary to perform at the level we need to.
[Translation]
Senator Champagne: I would not want to finish without telling you how enthusiastic I am about La Place de la Francophonie.
Mr. Arnal, I was in your part of the country recently. We spoke to a number of people on Granville Island and at La Place de la Francophonie. If that is what we are left with after the Olympic Games, it is an extraordinary idea. We heard from a number of young students from British Columbia who are in French immersion. La Place de la Francophonie, as you see it, will be a very popular spot.
Mr. Arnal: I agree. La Place de la Francophonie will be managed by a semi-autonomous corporation that we are currently setting up. We will have a chairman or chairwoman of the board who will be a well-known personality to the Canadian public and two vice-chairs of the same stature, in addition to members appointed by our organizations. Things are looking really good.
This initiative will be a focal point to ensure that the francophonie is visible. We are currently discussing potential legacies on Granville Island.
Another interesting point is that businesses along the road to the island have expressed a desire to get involved in the Place de la Francophonie concept. We have received a number of offers of collaboration from them.
Senator Tardif: My question is for Mr. Arnal. If I understand correctly, the foundation that you head plays a liaison role between the francophone community and VANOC. Do you have a role to play in ensuring better funding or better representation of francophones within VANOC? What is the foundation's role with respect to the needs identified by Mr. Audet?
Mr. Arnal: I would like to make it clear that the foundation is not a lobby group or a political organization. It is a foundation. As such, we were given the mandate to play a certain role and we are doing that. That does not mean that when we see problems, we do not bring them to the attention of what we might call the small "p'' or big "P'' political authorities. But that is not our primary role.
With respect to funding, there was a time when relations between the federation and the foundation were not very clear. Through discussion, we worked out protocols that have resulted in everything being very clear now. In order to make sure that we have people on the ground, there are four foundation members in British Columbia. I am in Alberta. One of the four BC members has been identified as the person who will maintain regular contact with the federation and with VANOC. Following the problems raised by Senator Jaffer, we have strengthened the liaison structure specifically to avoid that kind of situation. As we go forward, we will make sure that things are as smooth as possible.
The Chair: I have a follow-up question to the one asked by Senator Tardif. Mr. Arnal, if I understand correctly, the foundation has guaranteed funding and you do not have to worry. However, Mr. Audet's funding comes in part from money that has already been allocated to his community and so it reduces festival funding. So he is concerned, but you cannot help him because that is outside your mandate.
Mr. Arnal: We are not allowed to make public statements, but that does not prevent us from speaking to people in the various government offices to encourage them to take action. At one point, there was talk of the foundation becoming a funding agency, a sort of clearing house for funding for all projects. We actively resisted that role because we wanted to be responsible for our own affairs and our coordination. However, the relationship between the federation and the other organizations involved will have to be bilateral in nature and not go through us. We are very careful not to overstep our mandate or our powers under the Registered Charities Act.
Senator Comeau: Mr. Furlong said at the beginning of his remarks that there were regular discussions with Quebec and New Brunswick. Perhaps we could come back to that a little later. This actually brings me to the second part of our second recommendation in the report about representation of various components of the Canadian francophonie. We asked the government who was going to take charge of that and how. The government's response was that the Fédération des francophones de la Colombie-Britannique was acting as the liaison between VANOC and the francophone community in that province, and that the Fondation canadienne pour le dialogue des cultures played that role, if I am not mistaken, for francophones in the rest of Canada.
So my question for Mr. Arnal is whether the plan that he has proposed to VANOC is public?
Mr. Arnal: I do not see any reason why it would not be public. It was distributed to all of the organizations representing francophones and organizations in Quebec. I do not see any problem in making it available.
Senator Comeau: We would like to have that plan. My second question is as follows: Since you are the liaison between VANOC and all of the other provinces in Canada with minority francophone communities, do you have a way to reach them? Does the plan describe how this is done?
Mr. Arnal: Yes, I know that a set of committees around certain themes was established and that the committees include people from across Canada, including Quebec. The foundation sees the francophonie as being national in scope.
Senator Comeau: In reality, if I understand correctly, VANOC has a very special agreement with Quebec. So do you need to have Quebecers as well? I am not saying anything against Quebecers, but they have a special agreement, is that not correct?
Mr. Arnal: Vive les Québécois; we can never have too many of them! All joking aside, we wanted the whole francophone community, including Quebec, to be at the same table. There is an agreement between the Government of Quebec and VANOC, but we will be looking for people from various fields in society: recreation, sports, culture, tourism, et cetera.
Senator Comeau: So your plan will describe how you are going to reach out to the francophone communities.
Mr. Audet, I want to come back to your point; you requested funding and the government had to take it from money that was earmarked for something else. At one time, some of us had questioned the foundation about the fact that it had received this funding at the beginning and that the officials did not want to look for other funds in order to give you the part that the foundation would have had for the work that you are doing now. Did you pursue that with the officials? I understand that the foundation cannot lobby for more money, but we had understood that the money that should have been reserved for you was in the hands of the foundation.
Mr. Audet: I think we need to take a broader perspective. The Olympic coordination position is great and it allows us to do some great things. On that note, I would like to mention that our Olympic issues coordinator will be working one day a week in the VANOC office because she is also responsible for developing ties between British Columbia francophone communities and VANOC.
Senator Comeau: You are avoiding my question.
Mr. Audet: No, I am coming to it. We can do things with that position, but it is far from the whole picture. We have national action plans and an overall provincial action plan in various sectors. In addition to the $160,000, there are activities in all sectors that require some amount of funding so that the Place de la Francophonie can become a reality.
Senator Comeau: Yes, but the funding was provided to the foundation. From what I understand, you were forgotten. The Fédération des francophones de la Colombie-Britannique was forgotten. The foundation was picked to handle all that. I am proud that you are getting more involved. I am very pleased to hear that you have good relations with the foundation. However, the funding went to the foundation. I can imagine that the bureaucrats said that the funding had already been provided. We will give you funding, but it will come out of the existing envelope. Should there not have been a redistribution of the funding that had already been given?
Mr. Audet: Right now, the funding that has been provided to the Fondation canadienne pour le dialogue des cultures and the FFCB is just to get the work started.
What will be upcoming in the area of cultural activities, tourism and various other sectors is aimed at ensuring the participation in these games by Canadians and francophones across the country. All these activities have to find funding. Obtaining the money has not been very easy, either for the foundation or ourselves.
I would hope that the Government of Canada, particularly Canadian Heritage, will help us identify funding and create an envelope that our groups can access, rather than taking money away from the foundation. The foundation's main role is to ensure that francophones and Acadians from across Canada outside British Columbia can feel that these are their games. They are the games of all Canadians. It is important for the francophone community in British Columbia to be able to welcome all these people. For the Government of Canada, these games are in the Vancouver- Whistler corridor. If British Columbia's francophone community is unable to participate fully, it will be very unfortunate.
Senator Comeau: I do not need any convincing of that. I understand what you are saying. Are you saying that the amount of funding identified in the beginning was not adequate and you are asking for additional money?
Mr. Audet: That is exactly what I am saying. One of the roles of the FFCB is to work with all the organizations in the province so that all of them, including those working in the Vancouver-Whistler corridor, feel capable of contributing to the success of the games as appropriate. There will be the Place de la Francophonie and a major cultural event at Maillardville. We want to be sure that these are part of the programming.
Senator Comeau: Mr. Arnal, you are in charge of francophones from other provinces including Quebec and Mr. Audet is responsible for British Columbia. Do you need more funding?
Mr. Arnal: If I may, I will come back to your previous question. The involvement of francophone communities has evolved over time. And the federal government has had to adjust to those changes. At the beginning, I do not believe that any agreement was planned.
Now to answer your question about whether we have enough money, obviously there is never enough money. That said, I think that we have the funding we need to do the preparatory work that is required. The problems will arise when specific projects requiring funding come up for the Place de la Francophonie.
We recently met with the minister responsible for official languages when she was in Vancouver. We talked to her about our plans. Her initial reaction was encouraging. However, a significant financial effort, probably involving a number of departments, will be required. The tourism sector will need funding from the departments responsible for regional development, for example.
Senator Comeau: Unfortunately, time does not allow for us to focus on the tourism aspect.
Senator Tardif: What is the foundation's budget for these Olympic Games?
Mr. Arnal: The 2007-2008 budget is currently $220,000 for coordination.
Senator Tardif: Is that $220,000 a year up until the Olympics?
Mr. Arnal: We are looking at $180,000 for the second year. That will be for planning and coordination. Planning is underway right now. It will be ongoing, which is why the budget is slightly lower. We hope that the $40,000 will give dividends, which can be used to support projects.
Senator Tardif: What is the $40,000 you are talking about?
Mr. Arnal: It is the difference between $220,000 and $180,000.
Senator Goldstein: My question is for Mr. Audet and Mr. Arnal. Have you made a request for additional funding? Are your requests official, or is this just a discussion with the minister responsible for official languages?
Mr. Arnal: When we recently met with the minister, particularly regarding the Place de la Francophonie, we talked numbers.
Specific requests from the various sectors for national planning should be made soon. We are working on a daily basis with the officials in order to avoid any surprises.
Senator Goldstein: How much funding are you requesting for the Place de la Francophonie?
Mr. Arnal: We talked about $7 million. It would be for the Place de la Francophonie and a few other activities.
Senator Goldstein: Did you say that the reaction you got was not a negative one?
Mr. Arnal: I worked in government for 18 years. At one time, I even worked for Senator Champagne as a regional director in Alberta — she may remember that. From what I saw, her reaction was far from negative.
Senator Murray: I do not have any questions. I just have a few comments, if I may.
[English]
There are five of us here around the table who were on the committee when we went to Vancouver in the fall of 2006 to discuss this subject. I will not say that the efforts that we heard about at the time were embryonic, but they were really in the early stages. We heard a lot about hopes and expectations and plans and undertakings at that time. While we went away encouraged by what we heard, we are vastly more encouraged today. Nothing can be more obvious, from what we have heard, not just from Mr. Furlong, who has responsibility for this, but from Mr. Audet and Mr. Arnal, that terrific progress has been made since we met in Vancouver.
We can never and should never underestimate the enormity of the challenge in a province like British Columbia and a city like Vancouver with something as huge as the Olympic Games to ensure that linguistic duality is front and centre and that it permeates the whole operation. It is clear to us today not only that that is the intention, 100 per cent, as Mr. Furlong has told us, but that they are making real progress. They deserve our congratulations for that.
[Translation]
Mr. Arnal has raised one issue in particular. He aptly points — and this is encouraging — to the experience in Calgary in 1988, where the efforts made to promote bilingualism and ensure equality status have had a long-term impact on bilingualism and the status of French in that city. That aspect is very important for Vancouver and British Columbia.
[English]
Even if, as they say, and I accept, there are already 300,000 French speakers in the province, the work that is being done on linguistic duality for these Olympics, if it has, as it had in Calgary, a longer-term, more permanent effect in raising the status of bilingualism and of French in particular, that will be all to the good.
Finally, while our mandate is official languages and we should not go beyond that, I just want to say, as one Canadian, how tremendously impressed I have been over the months to have followed, as a layman and at a distance of several thousand kilometres, what you are doing there and the success that you appear to be having.
I guess all of us are old enough to remember, not just in our own country but in other countries, horrendous problems that arose with terrific cost overruns, delays, labour strife and Lord knows what else — and more recently, the politicization of the exercise, as we are seeing. VANOC seems to be functioning very successfully. You seem to have the community behind you there.
It sometimes happens that what appears to be a smoothly functioning machine turning over efficiently is utter chaos behind the scenes. Perhaps it is the case here. You do not have to comment on that.
However, it is tremendously impressive. I think you know, and I want to assure you, that all Canadians feel a real stake in these Games and in what you are doing out there. We are rooting for your success and proud of the success you have had so far in the planning and organization of these Games.
We all have a stake in it, and I think you are on the road to doing all Canadians proud. Thank you for that. Good luck, and do keep up the good work on linguistic duality.
Mr. Furlong: May I respond briefly? Thank you very much. Those were very eloquent comments. I appreciate them very much and I will pass them on to our people in Vancouver.
I want to say that through all of the questions that have been asked, it is very clear to me how passionate everyone in the room is about this subject. Notwithstanding the small glitches that happen here and there and the mistakes that we will no doubt make, I want you to know that we are very well aware that 3.5 billion people will be watching this on television in 2010.
Our entire focus is on moving this organization to the finish line and delivering at the highest level imaginable, so wherever you are watching from, you see the Olympic Games delivered profoundly well in both languages. You will know, from wherever you are, this is something we revere in our country.
There was a comment earlier that I wanted to respond to. Notwithstanding signage, translation and everything else that we need to do, which we will do, at every event at the Games — and there are hundreds of them — when you walk into the stadium, every event will be produced and delivered in both languages. Every event, the production, all of the fanfare, will be in both languages.
This does not happen often at the Olympic Games, but it will happen in Vancouver. That is who we are. If there is nothing else that comes from today, I want you to feel confident that is where our organization is going.
We have very good friends, and a lot of support. We can always use more help, but that is where we are going. We will be ashamed if we do not deliver at the highest level with that target in mind.
[Translation]
Senator Goldstein: Mr. Furlong has just answered the question I intended to ask. So the face of the Olympics will be in both languages for those listening and watching on television.
The Chair: I would like to thank all the witnesses very much for appearing before our committee this afternoon. On behalf of committee members, I would like to express my appreciation for this fruitful exchange.
[English]
We will be following closely the great work that you have told us that you are doing. Thank you very much.
[Translation]
The Chair: Honourable senators, I would now like to introduce our witnesses for the second part of today's meeting.
We have with us the Honourable Josée Verner, Minister of Canadian Heritage, Status of Women and Official Languages. She is accompanied by Deputy Minister Judith Larocque. We also welcome the Honourable David Emerson, Minister of International Trade and the Pacific Gateway and the Vancouver-Whistler Olympics.
We are following up on the committee report entitled Reflecting Canada's Linguistic Duality at the 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games: A Golden Opportunity.
[English]
As chair of the committee and on behalf of our members, I thank you for your appearance before us today. Would you like to start, Mr. Emerson?
Hon. David Emerson, P.C., M.P., Minister of International Trade and Minister for the Pacific Gateway and the Vancouver-Whistler Olympics: You have heard from John Furlong, and I hope that he gave you comfort that the Vancouver Olympic organizing committee is committed not only to the letter of the Official Languages Act and the celebration of our bicultural country, but also to the spirit of it. I think he and his management team have stepped up on so many issues, and this is another one where I think they are approaching it with genuine enthusiasm, to ensure that the Olympics does in a very real and deep way express Canada's bicultural and multicultural reality.
As I am sure Mr. Furlong told you, the 2010 Olympic Games and Paralympic Winter Games in Vancouver and Whistler present Canada with a golden opportunity to showcase Canada to the world. I believe that the games are about fostering community involvement, encouraging athletic participation and building a sports, cultural and social legacy. Those are legacies that I am sure you know will benefit host communities and provide benefits to Canadians for a very long time to come. Our government is delighted with the opportunity the games provide to raise Canada's international profile and increase our tourism through strategic marketing initiatives. It is also an opportunity to share our country's geographic and cultural diversity, our values and our unique way of life.
The 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games will be truly Canada's games. The games will highlight athletic excellence but, much more than that, they will highlight sustainability, our Aboriginal heritage, our bicultural origins and our multicultural character. They will highlight Canada's hospitality, and they are an opportunity to promote health and fitness. The games present a real opportunity to unite Canadians and bring them together to focus on a common purpose and common cause. To do that, we need to involve Canadians from coast to coast to coast and make sure all Canadians have access to the games. We need to make it possible for them to enjoy the games in the official language of their choice.
A commitment to promote English and French was part of Vancouver's initial bid for the 2010 games. That commitment was undertaken in accordance with the spirit of the Official Languages Act, the Sport Canada policy for hosting international sports event and the Olympic charter. To ensure that Canada's linguistic duality would be an integral part of the games, the Government of Canada signed a multi-party agreement with the Vancouver Organizing Committee, VANOC, and with other key partners in the games. That was done in November of 2002. That was the first time in the history of the games that specific provisions with respect to official languages have been integrated into such an agreement.
As part of this agreement, VANOC committed to meeting the objectives and fulfilling the obligations consistent with the Official Languages Act and related policies. In cooperation with VANOC, the Government of Canada held consultation meetings with francophone and Acadian communities from across Canada to determine how best to encourage their participation in hosting the games and promoting their rich heritage.
These sessions led to the signing of a collaborative protocol between VANOC and Fondation canadienne pour le dialogue des cultures and the Fédération des francophones de la Colombie-Britannique. The signing of the protocol marked the beginning of the active involvement of francophone communities in the 2010 winter games. The agreement states that the Fondation canadienne pour le dialogue des cultures will act as a catalyst and liaison organization between the francophone and Acadian communities in Canada and the Vancouver organizing committee. For its part, the FFCB specifically represents the francophone community in British Columbia.
These two organizations, in consultation with VANOC, have developed a national action plan to involve the francophone and Acadian communities in the planning, organizing and hosting of the 2010 winter games. Canadian Heritage is providing funding to both of these organizations to support their coordination role in the 2010 games.
We are well on our way to presenting these landmark games in terms of respecting and including our two official languages. VANOC encourages the hiring of bilingual employees and recruiting of bilingual volunteers. Its public communications marketing material and onsite signage will be bilingual. Client, athlete and specialized services and emergency measures will be available in both official languages. The opening and closing ceremonies too will reflect the presence and influence of the French language and will represent both official language groups in Canada. This is the result of an agreement with VANOC regarding official languages and official languages communities and the additional funding we have recently provided for the preparation of the official opening and closing ceremonies.
The government continues to work closely with VANOC. Hosting the games provides an opportunity for the Government of Canada to advance such federal priorities as official languages and to promote sustainable sport while generating social, cultural and economic benefits for all Canadians. The Department of Canadian Heritage has established the 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games federal secretariat to oversee the preparations for the games and to coordinate the efforts of various federal government departments and our provincial, municipal and private sector partners.
The secretariat is also responsible for promoting official languages, involving francophone communities in hosting the 2010 Winter Games and coordinating the actions of federal departments and agencies in this undertaking.
In cooperation with the Official Languages Support Programs Branch at the Department of Canadian Heritage, the secretariat helped VANOC develop its language policy and a bilingual organizational culture — and I think it is a culture that is alive and thriving in Vancouver and elsewhere.
Canadian Heritage recently played a role in the recruitment process for bilingual volunteers. VANOC has held several information sessions throughout Canada to make Canadians aware of the need for bilingual paid staff, as well as volunteers. A session was held specifically for British Columbia's francophone community. In addition, the provinces of Quebec and New Brunswick have agreed to assist in hiring bilingual employees, and in applying and developing the language component for certain services offered by VANOC.
The Vancouver Organizing Committee reports to the Government of Canada on a regular basis on the evolution of the planning and organization of the Games. Under the multi-party agreement, VANOC is required to produce a business plan and submit it to us for approval. The third version of the plan is expected to be completed this fall.
Reviewing that plan will provide us with another opportunity to ensure that VANOC's organization of the Games and its operating budget are realistic and comprehensive, and that they take official language considerations into account. Completion of the business plan 18 months prior to the Games will allow the Government of Canada to react and to provide recommendations in time for the staging of the Games.
We will continue to advise VANOC, with the benefit of the recommendations of this committee and the Commissioner of Official Languages. The Government of Canada will continue to support VANOC and to work with all our partners to ensure that French, as one of the two official languages of Canada and of the international Olympic committee, is fully recognized, respected and represented in the planning, organization and hosting of the 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games. Thank you, Madam Chair.
[Translation]
Hon. Josée Verner, P.C., M.P., Minister of Canadian Heritage, Status of Women and Official Languages: The last time I appeared before you, in February, I concluded my presentation by addressing the topic of the 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games. I told you then that from the initial stages of planning for the games, respect for our two official languages was a priority. I also assured you that French would be given emphasis during the games, and that the Government of Canada would use this opportunity to highlight the role of francophones and anglophones in our country's development. In his presentation, my colleague David Emerson gave concrete examples of how we are meeting this commitment.
I am pleased to be able to address this question now myself, to clearly show you that we are taking the concerns you raised in your fifth report seriously. This can be seen in the response we made to the committee last summer. Your recommendations tie in closely with our basic objective, which is to organize "Canada's Games.''
With regard to official languages, there are several aspects of the objective. First, the aim is that French- and English-speaking Canadians can communicate with the games' organizers in their own language; that they can learn about the organization and conduct of the games in their own language; and that wherever they come from, their ideas and skills be taken into account.
Without repeating what Minister Emerson has just said, I would like to note that under the Multiparty Agreement, my department is working closely with the Organizing Committee for the Games (VANOC) and the different partners for the games.
We are satisfied that VANOC intends to meet or surpass its obligations on official languages, as set out in the Multiparty Agreement. VANOC has also drawn on extensive advice from Canadian Heritage to develop its policy on official languages. In addition, VANOC has reached agreements with Quebec and New Brunswick that provide for possible support in these fields. Further, VANOC has signed a collaborative protocol with the Canadian Foundation for Cross-Cultural Dialogue and the Fédération des francophones de la Colombie-Britannique. I will return to this in a moment.
A second aspect is that we need to ensure the image of the games — and particularly the image sent out internationally — properly reflects Canada's linguistic duality.
[English]
Three billion people from all across the globe will watch the opening and closing ceremonies and the competitions. This is a wonderful opportunity to raise awareness of Canada all over the world.
The cultures associated with our two official languages are remarkable, and we can be proud to show them to the world — not only in the ceremonies, but in all aspects of the Games. These include the cultural programming, the language skills of staff and volunteers, signs, the torch relay, advertising and the announcing of results.
Our government wants to make the 2010 Winter Games a model of respect for official languages on all levels.
[Translation]
A third aspect is that I want the spirit of the Olympic and Paralympic Games to inspire all Canadians and leave a lasting legacy for them, including official-language minority communities. In this regard, Franco-British Columbians have very quickly shown their support for the games and their desire to share in the experience of the 2010 Games.
This wish has led to the collaborative protocol that I mentioned earlier, signed by VANOC, the Canadian Foundation for Cross-Cultural Dialogue, and the Fédération des francophones de la Colombie-Britannique. The two organizations will act as spokespersons to help VANOC involve francophones and Acadians who are able to directly support the organization of the games.
Moreover, the foundation and the federation are designing projects that use the opportunity presented by the games for the development of their communities, throughout British Columbia and Canada.
[English]
For example, the Alliance des radios communautaires du Canada will offer young French-speaking journalists the chance to cover the Games and develop their skills. We recently announced Canadian Heritage support for this project.
We are also supporting the Canadian Foundation for Cross Cultural Dialogue and the Fédération des francophones de la Colombie-Britannique, and I am delighted with the spirit of cooperation they have established with VANOC. I recently met with representatives from these two organizations.
[Translation]
We discussed their action plan and the activities most likely to ensure a francophone presence in 2010. It was a good meeting that enabled me to see the dedication of these people to their fellow francophone and Acadian citizens. We are encouraging VANOC to carry on with this cooperation. We are also giving attention to the comments of all parties concerned, including the Commissioner of Official Languages and the members of your committee.
Our shared objective is the same: French-speakers must have the opportunity to play a role in the games, whether by helping VANOC to organize them, contributing to the cultural programming, attending the games, or deriving all possible benefits from the games.
As you know, the mandate of the Department of Canadian Heritage includes promoting English and French in Canadian society and supporting the development of official language minority communities. This mandate gives me a responsibility that I take very seriously. The 2010 Games are a unique opportunity to achieve these objectives.
With this in mind, I wish to assure you today that I will continue working with my colleague David Emerson and all our partners so that the 2010 Games will truly be Canada's games.
In closing, I thank you for the time you have allowed us. We are now ready to answer your questions.
Senator Losier Cool: Welcome, Ministers Verner and Emerson. My question deals with the image that we want the games to have. Of course, this image will be projected throughout the country in both official languages. However, when the committee traveled to Vancouver to hear from various witnesses, we realized that in the hotel where we were staying, neither RDS nor TV5, which are both French-language TV channels, was available.
The Mayor of Vancouver told us that he would be meeting with the hotels to see what could be done. Mr. Furlong also said that they would take the decision into account.
Mr. Emerson, in view of your experience and your influence in Vancouver, were you aware that no French television channels are available in that city's hotels? Did you do anything, similar to what Mr. Furlong has done, to meet with these hotels in order to discuss the problem?
[English]
Mr. Emerson: I would be happy to follow up on it. We are aware of it. In fact, I did meet with Mr. Furlong before he came here and we talked about that very issue. I understand that hotels where Olympic officials are staying, those hotels that are part of the Olympic family, will have the Olympic feed. This will be a bilingual feed and will have coverage on a series of channels of a number of different events, and it will provide for French language coverage. It is those hotels that are not part of that family of hotels where we have an issue. Mr. Furlong and I agreed that we would follow up to see what we could do with that particular problem, as well as explore some of the issues relating to the complete coverage of the games in both official languages for as much of Canada as we can possibly reach.
[Translation]
Senator Goldstein: I have a question for Ms. Verner. Representatives from the Fédération des francophones de la Colombie-Britannique and the Canadian Foundation for Cross-Cultural Dialogue appeared before us earlier. They said that they had had a very fruitful and pleasant meeting with you. I asked them how much they had requested for the Place de la Francophonie and for some other games-related francophone cultural events.
Did you pay careful attention to this request so as to ensure that the Place de la Francophonie as well as the cultural events will be funded?
Ms. Verner: A little over two weeks ago, I traveled to Vancouver and we did have an excellent meeting; it lasted a little over 90 minutes. Those same people are in the room today. I was happy to see that these groups are very motivated, and that they are working closely with VANOC. They told me about various projects, including an action plan and the Place de la Francophonie project. I found all of it very interesting. They are very dynamic people. The Place de la Francophonie will no doubt be a lovely forum.
Everyone knows that money will be required from a number of partners in order for this project to move forward. I have neither accepted nor denied their request. We will have to take a close look at it. However, I would like to state that it is a wonderful project.
Senator Champagne: The head of the Fédération des francophones de la Colombie-Britannique said that money had been provided over a two-year period for a coordinator to act as an intermediary between the foundation, the federation and VANOC. He also said that this money had come from the fund that could have been provided for other events, including small festivals for francophones located throughout the province. The second year will be ending soon.
I met with francophone groups in Vancouver. We discussed a number of things, including an event which will take place in Maillardville. They wondered if there would be any money left to help those people, even if the events are not part of any particular program. Is there any hope that they will be able to have some funding to organize a small festival or any type of francophone celebrations in the years before or after the games, or while the games are ongoing?
Ms. Verner: Both groups made me aware of this situation. I have asked my office to follow up and to see how we might be able to help them, if it is indeed possible to do so. We are now doing our homework after my visit to Vancouver.
Senator Champagne: As my mother used to say, I simply wanted to hammer the message home so that you would not forget them.
The Chair: I have a follow-up to the question put by Senator Goldstein; it involves the application that you received on the Place de la Francophonie. Since this request will require contributions from various departments, will your department act as the coordinator for this initiative?
Ms. Verner: Since the request was addressed to me, we will provide the follow-up. We are asking for the opinions of every possible partner on this file. Of course, it involves money, location and departmental responsibility. At the end of the exercise we will see who is in the best position to move this project forward. But I will certainly get the ball rolling.
Senator Tardif: I have a question for both witnesses. In our February 2007 report, the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages included recommendation number 5, which reads as follows:
That the federal government, in cooperation with the other partners, immediately begin to work toward the appointment of a representative from the French-language communities to the VANOC board of directors.
I know full well that the government cannot become involved in appointing someone to the VANOC board of directors. In its response, the government stated that there are 20 members on the board of directors, and that there would be no openings until November 2010. Moreover, any move to increase the number of board members in order to benefit a particular group could be seen as a precedent that an unlimited number of other interest groups might seek to use.
I found the response very surprising. In my opinion, the bilingual nature of the Olympic Games and the constitutional recognition of our country's linguistic duality mean much more than an interest group. Could you justify in writing the government's response to our recommendation?
[English]
Mr. Emerson: I can speak to that. The structure of the board of the directors was laid out in the multi-party agreement, and as you said, it was 20 directors divided amongst Canada, the province, Vancouver, Whistler and the official sponsors and suppliers of the games.
In the appointment of directors that the government made through me, recently, we did appoint Mr. Gauthier, from Quebec. Mr. Gauthier has been very active in representing issues related not just to Quebec but also to francophone culture. I understand from Mr. Furlong — because I asked specifically about it — that he has been very active. The arrangements we have made with the two organizations that were with Mr. Furlong earlier were also designed to ensure that we get a meaningful and deep as well as strong representation from the francophone community.
You will know that if you are on a board of directors, you are on the board of directors with a fiduciary obligation to the organization. You may bring a perspective from the body that appointed you or where you come from, but your ultimate obligation is to the corporate entity you are serving.
We felt that if one wanted to have a meaningful impact on the behaviour of the organization, to meet the goals and objectives we all share, that simply appointing someone from that community was not the answer because that person would have broader fiduciary obligations. It was better to build mechanisms that would feed directly into the management structure, and, of course, through Mr. Gauthier, we have attempted to bring a francophone perspective as well to the board.
Senator Tardif: VANOC is to be commended absolutely for bringing in Mr. Gauthier, but I would think at the highest level of decision making, that would be a golden opportunity to have again brought out the fact that the Olympic Games will represent Canada's two official languages and Canada's commitment to linguistic duality in the country. That would have been an important key ingredient, not only at the highest decision-making level but also operationally. Seeing that is not the case, what mechanisms have now been put into place, besides Mr. Gauthier, to ensure at the operational level there will be the "official languages lens,'' as we may call it?
Mr. Emerson: I should note that the multi-party agreement predates my time as minister and predates the current government. It goes back to the previous government.
In terms of operational organizing and structure, you probably heard from Mr. Furlong, but if you did not, I can tell you that Canadian Heritage is working closely with them on the creation of an organization structure that incorporates the bilingual and linguistic duality of Canada, and that also runs deep in the organization.
There are now about 12,000 people, volunteers and paid employees, who are bilingual, and they continue to strike accords directly with groups as well as provinces. They have done so with Quebec and New Brunswick, with the express purpose of ensuring that French language and culture is included and represented as an integral part of the functioning of the Games.
As you go right through the different parts of the organization, whether it is advertising in signage or the promotions of sponsors or the provision of services to athletes related to the Olympics, they are building in the francophone linguistic requirements well beyond any requirements that are in law. They are exhibiting a spirit that has to be commended in terms of reaching out to the francophone community.
You can play around with legal structures and boards and so on, but my own feeling is that if the organization is not seized of it and committed in a real emotional way, it will not happen.
[Translation]
Ms. Verner: Senator, you must be aware that a protocol was signed between VANOC and the representatives of the francophone community during my long but very interesting meeting with the Fédération des francophones de la Colombie-Britannique and the Canadian Foundation for Cross-Cultural Dialogue. I was told that the relations were excellent, and that there was no problem in communicating directly either with Mr. Furlong or with other representatives. No mention was made of that particular issue.
Senator Tardif: That is the point, Madam Minister; this is what the witnesses who came before you told us, namely, the two groups with whom you met. However, what surprised me was the government's answer to the report that we submitted; it implied that the country's linguistic duality should be considered in the same way as one would consider any interest group. I wanted to raise the point to ensure that the commitment would be very different. As to the group that will be representing Canada at the Beijing Olympics, the requirements call for bilingual English and Mandarin participants. There is no mention made of the French language. Is that the case?
Ms. Verner: Of course, that was brought to my attention. I would like to ask Ms. LaRocque to answer your question.
Judith A. LaRocque, Deputy Minister, Heritage Canada: I am happy to confirm that it is not the case. We are looking for bilingual people, who speak both French and English and who also have a knowledge of Mandarin. In the past, for example when we were represented in Japan or at the international fair in Germany, we had no trouble finding people who fit that language profile. Canada has a number of trilingual people. We think that it will be just as easy to find suitable candidates to send to Beijing.
[English]
Senator De Bané: Mr. Emerson, regarding the point that was emphasized by my colleague Senator Tardif, you bring to the cabinet a unique perspective because you are from British Columbia. In a country like ours with six time zones and different provinces, it is vital that each province, as much as possible, is around the table. That is why I was happy to see someone like Senator Fortier of Montreal being around the table.
Senator Tardif is absolutely right in what she says about the phraseology which is used here, that to add another particular group would set the precedent that an unlimited number of other interest groups may wish to take advantage of. We have it in the supreme law of the land that this country has two languages. Then we say that it is not important that each of them be on that organizing committee. It would have been a tragedy if British Columbia were not around the table. It has to be there, and I am very happy that you are. Everything depends, from where we sit. From the perspective of someone else, perhaps not. You and I know how important it is that you are there. To say that that group is like an unlimited number of groups is something to which I take exception. I wanted to tell you that, very respectfully.
[Translation]
There is something else, ministers, that I would like to draw to your attention. You said that $160,000 was provided for the games coordinator position. Did the Fédération des francophones de la Colombie-Britannique ask you to fund any projects other than the position of coordinator for which the parliamentary secretary announced a budget of $160,000?
Ms. Verner: I assume that you are referring to the same file that Senator Champagne asked about earlier. This question was raised when we traveled to Vancouver, a little over two weeks ago. I asked the people from my department to look into this.
Of course, the two groups with whom I met when I was in Vancouver are extremely proactive, enthusiastic, and especially, very constructive. They have a whole host of projects and we will take a close look at all of the files that they have provided to us, but with respect to the $160,000, this is the same issue that was raised by Senator Champagne a few minutes ago. I reiterate my commitment to see what we can do about it.
Senator De Bané: Did they make any other requests?
Ms. Verner: As your colleague said earlier, they also have an action plan for the Place de la francophonie.
Senator De Bané: Our committee has recommended that the candidate cities be required to respect the Official Languages Act. The government has said that it will make them aware of that requirement. In our opinion, that waters down the commitment that we were expecting. In future, we would like Canada's Olympic Committee to not simply inform the cities but to require that they comply with the Official Languages Act. Could I ask you to try and include that?
Ms. Verner: I would like to ask Ms. LaRocque to deal with the content of the multipartite agreement.
Senator De Bané: I have a great deal of respect for your deputy minister.
Ms. LaRocque: That is very kind of you, senator.
The government, in responding to your report, could only act within the authority that is provided by the International Olympic Committee, which is the body that does the choosing.
However, in terms of our responsibilities, in the tripartite agreement we have included the detailed agreements between the federal government and the host city and host communities. Moreover, in the report to which Mr. Emerson referred, the yearly plan to be submitted in the fall, there is a section dedicated to all matters relating to official languages, bilingualism, promotion, communities, et cetera. We need not read the entire file, as this information will be included in a separate appendix that will be transparent and to which all committee members may refer.
The Chair: Senator Comeau now has the floor.
Senator Comeau: I would like to go back to the point raised by Senators Tardif and De Bané in order to underscore our concern over the statement that increasing the size of the board, to one specific group's advantage, would set a precedent that an unlimited number of interest groups could use.
I do not think I can find a more convincing argument to tell you that that goes against the spirit of this committee, that is, stating that one of the two language groups, one of the two official languages is not an interest group.
Minister, could you come back at a more appropriate time with a reassessment of those comments?
Ms. Verner: I hear your question, senator, and I will take it into consideration. My deputy minister has something to add.
Ms. LaRocque: First, I think that the government's approach was, among other things, that taking responsibility for both official languages was incumbent upon all committee members, all members of the board. When an individual is asked to sit on this type of board, they have a fiduciary responsibility for the overall operations of the Games.
Second, relations have been further improved through the agreements that VANOC has directly with the communities. These are privileged relationships with the communities, something that has never been seen before at the Games.
We feel that this combination is sufficient. Of course, this has to be monitored and this must never be forgotten, it is too important. However we feel we have the right mechanisms in order to ensure that the interests of the communities and the proper operation of the games in both official languages will be respected.
Senator Comeau: According to previous testimony, there seems to be a very positive spirit of cooperation between all groups and we do not in any way wish to minimize the pride we feel on hearing those comments. VANOC, the Fédération des francophones de la Colombie-Britannique and the Fondation canadienne pour le dialogue des cultures and all the individuals who spoke to us about the Olympics did so with great enthusiasm.
However, our role here is to ask questions. Therefore, I would like to come back to the part of Mr. Emerson's presentation, where he said that New Brunswick and Quebec. . .
The Chair: Which recommendation?
Senator Comeau: I am not referring to a recommendation but rather to this evening's presentation.
I have Madam Verner's presentation and on page 2 where it says:
In addition, VANOC has reached agreements with Quebec and New Brunswick that provide for possible support in these fields.
Mr. Emerson stated that the issue in this field was that of hiring individuals in those provinces to work at the Olympics. Will those two provinces be able to seek employees from other provinces, such as Manitoba or Nova Scotia, or will they only be able to take individuals from the provinces of Quebec and New Brunswick?
[English]
Mr. Emerson: I did not mean to convey that only Quebec and New Brunswick would be assisting by providing employees. What I wanted to convey, and my wording perhaps was not as sharp as it should have been, was that Quebec and New Brunswick, in their memoranda of understanding with VANOC, have specifically focused, although not exclusively, on assisting VANOC with ensuring the vibrant representation of the francophone culture and bilingual requirements of the operation of VANOC.
We are seeking bilingual staff and volunteers from everywhere in the country. There is no reservation at all about that.
Senator Comeau: I found the citation here:
In addition, the provinces of Quebec and New Brunswick have agreed to assist in hiring bilingual employees —
I want to stop on the hiring of bilingual employees. You are saying that the hiring of bilingual employees would not be limited to Quebec and New Brunswick. Is there some kind of a mechanism within the protocol or the understanding between these two provinces that they are encouraged to go outside their provincial jurisdictions to possibly seek bilingual candidates in Nova Scotia, Manitoba or Alberta?
Mr. Emerson: VANOC for sure will go outside. What precisely Quebec and New Brunswick would do in the context of their MOUs, I would have to ask Ms. LaRocque. VANOC has a very active program of hiring bilingual people from all over the country.
Senator Comeau: The reason we are raising these issues now is we do not want to raise them afterwards when we do the evaluation of just how many people were hired and from where. We would not want to go back into the past and say the reason there are only Quebecers and New Brunswickers there is they did special arrangements with these provinces. That is what we are trying to avoid now, so that we do seek mechanisms to ensure it is pan-Canadian.
Mr. Emerson: I should also note that VANOC has, I believe, two tiers of MOUs that they try to do with provinces, and they have the first tier of MOU with eight provinces and three territories. British Columbia would not be there, so that would leave Saskatchewan as the only one where they do not have the top tier of MOU, and that one is coming along.
I would expect there would be some element of the linguistic and cultural duality of Canada in some of the other agreements, although I did not ask that specifically of Mr. Furlong today. We were talking more generally.
I do not think any of us should depend on the MOUs with provinces to ensure that we will deliver on our bi-cultural bilingual objectives. It is simply that those happened to be officially bilingual provinces, and, therefore, it is incumbent on them to pay a little extra attention.
Senator Comeau: In fact, only one of the two is officially bilingual, and that is New Brunswick.
Mr. Emerson: That is a Westerner who is out of touch.
[Translation]
Senator Champagne: Given the way the response was worded we were all taken aback, that is, that the francophonie is not a simple interest group. In fact, if what the deputy minister has just told had been given to us in writing, there would not have been all this commotion today.
I put a question earlier to the person responsible for human resources and the question was whether at the time of hiring, bilingualism was an asset or a requirement? I was told that for some positions it was becoming a requirement but that at all times it would be an asset to be able to speak in two, three or four languages.
So I hope you can find plenty of young Canadians to send to Beijing this summer who can speak French, English and Mandarin.
Ms. Verner: Yes, we are making a focused effort to do this. There are some positions where people have to be bilingual, and it is not up to me to make decisions about that. However, I would like to come back to a question raised by all of your colleagues with respect to the term "interest group.'' I think this is unfortunate and does not show respect for our obligations as a government. We will ensure that this does not happen again.
Senator Goldstein: As you know, minorities always face a challenge when they try to defend their interests or their rights. There is an expression in French that says that the absents are always in the wrong.
[English]
I agree with you that a corporation, including VANOC, is subject to the general rules set forth by the Supreme Court in the Wise Brothers case amongst others, that the predominant duty of directors is to the corporation which they direct, and we have no disagreement about that.
Have you considered using the technique that we sometimes use in corporate law or in the restructuring of large corporations to name an observer — not a director but an observer — whose presence would be noteworthy solely for purposes of bringing to the attention and keeping the attention of the board of directors, without a right of voting or, for that matter, a right of speaking, to the fact that bilingualism is an absolutely fundamental aspect of these Olympic Games?
It seems to me, with great respect, that there has to be some gesture on the part of any government — I do not care about the colour of the government — to indicate a deep commitment to this principle, which, by the way, would be entirely consistent with the very first response that you gave to the first recommendation of this committee back in February 2007, that there would be an ongoing process of evaluation of the extent to which VANOC was endeavouring to respect the principle of dual linguism in this country.
Mr. Emerson: Let me relate what my colleague Minister Verner said on the unfortunate wording and our response. I completely agree with Ms. Verner that that wording was unfortunate and should not have taken the form that it did.
Your suggestion is an interesting one, and I would be happy to follow up. I cannot commit to it, but it sounds like it has some merit, and I would like to follow up and see what kind of a mess I get into if I push that.
Senator Goldstein: You are accustomed to that, Minister.
Mr. Emerson: With the director piece, you have to reopen the multi-party agreements, and as you know, when you reopen agreements, like legislation, it is like trying to unscramble an egg. I will follow up on that. It is a very interesting thought.
[Translation]
The Chair: We will end our discussion on that note. I would like to thank Mr. Emerson, Ms. Verner and Ms. LaRocque for this very interesting discussion. After all, we are partners. The committee is studying the enforcement of the Official Languages Act, and you, as ministers, must ensure that your respective department does enforce it.
The committee adjourned.