Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Official Languages
Issue 5 - Evidence - Meeting of May 5, 2008
OTTAWA, Monday, May 5, 2008
The Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages met this day at 5 p.m. to study and to report from time to time on the application of the Official Languages Act and the regulations and directives made under it, within those institutions subject to the act.
Senator Maria Chaput (Chair) in the chair.
[Translation]
The Chair: I would like to welcome you to the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages. My name is Maria Chaput and I chair this committee. To begin with, I would like to introduce the members of the committee.
On my left, you will find Senator Andrée Champagne, our Vice-Chair, from Quebec, and Senator Gerald Comeau, from Nova Scotia. On my right, is Senator Rose-Marie Losier-Cool from New Brunswick.
I would now like to introduce our witness who has been invited to appear by video conference from Quebec City this evening, Mr. Jean-Louis Roy. From 2002 to 2007, Mr. Jean-Louis Roy was President of Rights and Democracy at the International Centre for Human Rights and Democratic Development. He is now chairman of the board of directors at the newly-created Centre de la francophonie des Amériques.
The purpose of today's meeting is to consider the state of francophone culture in Canada, and more particularly, in minority francophone communities. Our witness will give us an overview of the Quebec government's intended role in promoting the French language in Canada and elsewhere in the Americas. We have already met with community associations from western and northern Canada. And we also intend to meet representatives from other communities at a later date, as well as national associations from the arts and culture sector.
Mr. Roy, the committee would like to thank you for having accepted our invitation and for having taken the time to appear today. The floor is now yours.
Jean-Louis Roy, Chair of the Board of Directors (by video conference): Madam Chair, thank you. I am glad to be able to work with you today as I spent the last couple of days with the board of directors of the Centre de la francophonie des Amériques. One of your compatriots, Ms. Muller, sits on the board and made me promise that I would say hello to you on her behalf, Madam Chair.
I would like to ask for senators' indulgence right from the outset. The Centre de la francophonie des Amériques was just created. As you are aware, its inception comes as a result of new legislation from the National Assembly of Quebec. The legislation received unanimous support from members of the National Assembly. The Minister for Canadian Intergovernmental Affairs and for the Francophonie, Mr. Benoît Pelletier, introduced the bill which was debated, to begin with, in partisan political circles, and which was then tabled before the National Assembly. There were parliamentary committees, a lot of witnesses, and what was impressive was the outcome, a unanimous vote by the National Assembly to institute the Centre de la francophonie des Amériques.
I would ask for your indulgence since we just completed our first meeting of the board of directors three hours ago, so I am sure you will understand that I intend to be very prudent regarding some issues. We are right in the midst of creating the centre.
I guess what is most important to you, given what you just said, Madam Chair, is what the emergence of a new centre such as the Centre de la francophonie des Amériques actually means. Well, to begin with, it is a testament to Quebec's willingness to make choices which meet the following two objectives: that Quebec play its role fully within Canada, and in the Canadian federation, when it comes to consolidating the use of the French language, and consolidating and strengthening francophone communities wherever they are in Canada. These issues are familiar to all of us, and I am pleased to be able to see Senator Comeau again here today. I worked extensively in his province and at St. Anne University, which is near and dear to his heart, I am sure. I have had the opportunity to be in close contact with francophone communities since 1980 when I was in charge of Le Devoir. Quebec decided to strengthen its ties and to assume a leadership role, to be a unifying force, and to become more familiar with the issues on the ground. It also decided to be a fully-fledged participant.
The Centre de la francophonie's initiative is part of the Quebec government's overall approach to these matters, and the centre has enjoyed the unanimous support of the National Assembly.
What is the Centre de la francophonie des Amériques? In my opinion, it is the first 21st century francophone institution. The premise behind the centre is to bring together and energize all francophones, wherever they are in the hemisphere, through the various technologies that make such a process possible. This includes Quebec, Canada's francophone communities, francophones from the United States — and that is about three million francophones — and 18 million francophiles. It also includes 40,000 French teachers in the United States, and there is also an increasing focus on Latin America. Our first step has been to determine what French-language activities actually exist in Latin America. We are looking at the work carried out by the Organisation internationale de la Francophonie, the Agence universitaire de la Francophonie and francophone territories such as the Maghreb, part of sub-Saharan Africa, and the former Indochina. Latin America is the first market being targeted for French-language culture products including film, television programs, videos of all sorts, books, and so on and so forth. We have undertaken a very broad study. There are about 20 researchers involved in this undertaking so that we can get the most comprehensive overview possible of activities currently occurring in Latin America. We are aware of course of Quebec's resources. And we are familiar with Canada's francophone communities' resources. We have a good sense of what the francophonie looks like in the United States and we are now going to take a close look at Latin America.
We intend to make use of this knowledge by acting on it and we have a number of tools to help us in this process. As mentioned by a member of our board, who is also the lead person for Canada's Francophone and Acadian communities, I am pleased to be able to announce that the first tool at our disposal will be new premises in old Quebec City, at an address which is unparalleled from an historical standpoint: Number 2, Côte de la Fabrique, which is the gateway to the old university. We have carried out a major refurbishment and this will be the nerve centre for all the activities we intend to carry out which I will address right now. These headquarters are located in four-story premises. Two-thirds of this multi-million dollar investment is being covered by the Quebec government and France has made a contribution in the context of Quebec City's 400th Anniversary.
The premises will be a modern space, and this contrasts nicely with Canada's most historic, ancient backdrop. This is a gateway about which we are very ambitious. A lot of money is being spent to build a major gateway which, upon completion, will be focal point for all the French-language activities in the hemisphere. Our goal, by extension, is to build second generation ties and networks. The third tool that we intend to develop, in addition to the physical premises — and I may seem to be focussing on the facilities, but when you see them, and they will be ready in time for the Sommet de la Francophonie in mid-October, you will see just how amazing they are. It is a 17th or 18th century location, but all the interactive technology at the facility is cutting-edge late 21st century.
The third tool is programming. We are just embarking upon this line of work.
We will proceed cautiously and will take our time defining our programming. First of all, we did not want to do what is already being done — that would make no sense. Our intention — the new paradigm — is an affirmation of a francophonie in the Americas, and our programming should be developed around this continental perspective. This means programs that could find partners in the United States, Mexico, Chile, Manitoba and Acadia. This will be a new direction for what francophone groups are doing, but the focus will be the 21st century, with the awareness of the existence of a continental francophonie.
I was saying earlier, at a ceremony involving the first partners of the centre at the Université Laval, that this caused me to think about what we are doing and — and I say this from a very personal point of view — about what Asians did in the United States when they established the Asia Foundation. Through the foundation, they equipped themselves with considerable power for a media and cultural presence, and for creating networks for the distribution of cultural products from India or elsewhere within the United States.
I will close by telling you that we have just held the first meeting of this board of directors representing all the regions of Canada as well as New England and Louisiana.
I will make an exception and I will name one board member from Louisiana, because he is a great artist, and also a fine politician: Zachary Richard. We have members from all regions of Canada. I was pleasantly surprised. I had no doubts about the interest of the members, because they had agreed to be on the board at the request of the Quebec government, but I did not know that this initiative on the part of the Quebec government was in response to such needs and such expectations. These were expressed very clearly at the beginning of our first meeting. Each participant said what he or she thought about the initiative. People speak frankly on this board of directors.
I heard voices from Acadia, Ontario, the western United States, and from Quebec as well, expressing extremely moving views about the need for a new generation of projects and networks and a new inclusive generation that integrates the cultural markets in Quebec, Canada, the United States and the Americas.
You will appreciate that all of this will develop. So I would like to express once again my great pleasure to be here with you. In the last five or six years, I have had an opportunity to be in touch with the Senate. I had long held a very high opinion of the very important work done by this institution. In recent years, I have had an opportunity to be in very close touch with many of your colleagues on the issue of human rights. I am pleased to appear before you today and I once again request your indulgence, because I am talking to you about a body that has just had its first board meeting. The group's meeting began on Saturday morning and just ended.
The Chair: Thank you very much. You do have legislation: the Act on the centre de la francophonie des Amériques. You now have a board of directors as well. Could you tell us who the members of the board of directors are? Do you have the list with you?
Mr. Roy: Yes, I do. We have Ms. Linda Cardinal from Ontario, who needs no introduction, because she is a specialist in all matters having to do with minorities and language issues. She is a professor at the Sorbonne and at the University of Ottawa.
And there is Grégoire Chabot from New England, a great francophone writer who writes in both French and English in the United States.
From Quebec, there is Danielle-Claude Chartré, the deputy minister in the Quebec Ministry of Culture, as well as Louis Comeau from Halifax, a former colleague of yours in Parliament. He used to be the rector of the Université Sainte-Anne, and is now on many boards of directors and is also the chancellor of the Université de Moncton.
There is also Guy Dumas, a deputy minister from Quebec City; and Monique Giroux, who has for 20 years been the host of the first program on the music of the francophone world on Radio-Canada. Her program is on for an hour and a half every day. Her contribution will be precious, because she has a huge network throughout the Americas.
As I said earlier, we also have Zachary Richard, who needs no introduction, except to say that beyond the artist we know and love, there is a fine politician and a man who is extremely involved in all sorts of minority rights issues in the United States, particularly in Louisiana. He is also very involved in the coalitions that worked to rebuild after the hurricane in Louisiana.
Gaston Harvey is also on the board; he is an assistant deputy minister in the International Relations Ministry in Quebec. Earlier I mentioned Mariette Mulaire, who is from Manitoba and who has an incredible background in all sorts of areas, including Heritage Canada. Today, she is more involved in business and commerce in French nationally and internationally as the head of an institution that receives 85 per cent of its funding from the Government of Manitoba.
Someone else you know is Lise Routhier-Boudreau, the president of all the francophones outside Quebec and all Acadians. Claire Simard is also on the board and brings to it very special expertise, because she is the director of the Musée de la civilisation in Quebec City, which has enjoyed such tremendous success. Since we will definitely be talking about museology and the circulation of works in our discussion of culture, I am very pleased to have her with us. Finally, there is Sylvie Lachance, who is with the Secretariat of Intergovernmental Affairs in the Quebec government.
The Chair: Thank you very much.
Mr. Roy: So there are several members from Quebec, members from all regions of Canada and two members from the United States. Some day, we hope to have one or two members from Latin America.
Senator Champagne: Good afternoon, Mr. Roy. We have not met for a long time, but I am very happy to see you again. I remember you when you worked at Le Devoir, but I probably remember you more when you were Quebec's delegate in Paris, and when you acted as Secretary General for the Agence de la francophonie. We had had an opportunity to meet at meetings of the AIPLF, and perhaps at meetings of the CONFEJES and the CONFEMEN as well. I am very pleased to see you here today.
You mentioned something that piqued my interest a little earlier: you talked about the importance of French in the Americas. I think it was in 1993 that I was at a meeting of the OAS when the new head office of the Organization of American States was opened in Sao Paulo. I was quite surprised to see how many people in Brazil spoke excellent French.
I had the opportunity to speak with Ms. Villa-Lobos, the composer's widow, on another occasion and she too spoke surprisingly good French which would put to shame many of us here in Canada. I wondered whether Brazil was also a part of the world where you might be called upon to revive interest in the francophonie.
Mr. Roy: Senator, I, too, am pleased to see you again. I have a very clear and precious memory of that time, starting in September 1984 — everyone remembers that date — when our paths crossed under very exceptional circumstances and at a time when Canada was making an exceptional contribution to the international francophonie. Without the considerable support of the Mulroney government, there would be no TV5 in the world. TV5 is now broadcast to 132 countries. There were very significant investments made at a time when you were in government. I am taking off my president of the board hat; you referred to my past as secretary general; we expect the federal government to provide an essential increase in Canada's contribution to the francophonie, in light of the upcoming Quebec Summit on October 18 and 19.
I was pleased to hear you talk about the OAS. First, French is an official language of the OAS, this is an important fact. I was in Santo Domingo two years ago, I believe for the annual ministerial meeting of the OAS, and I myself was fascinated, as you mentioned, by the representatives of delegations from various countries who went out of their way to speak in French at the conference, be it only symbolically. The debate focused quite extensively on the situation in Haiti. Canada made a very significant contribution, but others did too, such as Chile and Brazil; I was fascinated to see that various representatives of those countries wanted to speak to Haiti in French, at least in part.
With regard to Brazil, it has for a long time been a place where French language and culture is present, because Brazil has strong ties to Africa and particularly because the current president, President Lula, has renewed its significant ties with Africa. Last October, I was in Burkina Faso when the President of Brazil was visiting that country. I saw cultural exchanges and agreements signed; he had just done the same thing with Benin and southern Africa somewhat earlier. Obviously, due to its ties to Africa, Brazil is also connected to francophone Africa.
So, through our presence at the OAS, we are reaching Brazilian francophiles, and we know that our friends in Brazil, with their ties to Africa, are also connected to the French language and cultures throughout the francophonie.
The Association internationale des professeurs de français held its convention three years ago in Buenos Aires. The largest delegation came from Brazil. That is not overly surprising with regard to its population, you would think, but it is surprising nonetheless to see the vitality, the interest, the desire that countries such as ours, Canada, Quebec, support the international francophonie and that, in return, this francophonie provide its support to the Association internationale des professeurs de français. So, in that part of the world, there is still an interesting space for French education, diplomatic use of French but also for the French language to advance.
The main competition will come and is already coming in the next few years from China. Obviously, today, we are no longer fighting against the English language, that is over and done with. I think that are fighting against a number of languages, including Chinese. The Chinese government has a cultural affirmation policy that is at least as strong as its economic policy. It is less visible, its spinoffs less spectacular at this time. China intends to increase the number of Mandarin students from 30 million to 100 million in the next 5 to 10 years. It is now establishing 1,000 Confucius centres throughout the world. It just created one in Edmonton, we read this on the front page of the Globe and Mail a few days ago. China has set in motion a huge operation.
India has a different approach, which is rather that of a global Indian family. They have a department responsible for the diaspora with connections to 130 countries; this is quite new. Russia also has an unprecedented language affirmation policy.
Senator Champagne: I want to bring you back, if I may, closer to home, since you are in Quebec City and I want to raise a point that could become a part of one of your projects. You say that you want to contribute to promoting and enhancing a francophonie that will promote the future of the French language. Personally, I must tell you that I am quite saddened and concerned about the quality of French in Quebec. A number of my colleagues will talk to you about French elsewhere. I am absolutely stunned to hear the quality of French spoken by our young people who say: ``J'm'a être la première, ça va-t-être super!'' It is not easy for the rest of the international francophonie to understand this.
I wonder whether, in your projects, there is not a way to lend a hand and find a way to renew pride in properly spoken French here in Quebec. I am not talking about accents, but about grammatical structure and the poor vocabulary that our children and young people seem to be suffering from at the moment. Would there be some way to work together on this? Perhaps this could be a new topic for you, a way to occupy your free time: you could think about how we could encourage young Quebeckers to speak a little bit better. I am not talking about accents, I do not want us to produce imitations of little Frenchmen, but rather Quebecers who speak properly.
Mr. Roy: I want to come back to Chinese and other languages just for 30 seconds; my point was simply that we are entering an unprecedented era of linguistic competition.
Concerning the quality of the French language in Quebec, I believe that this is a very widespread problem. In other regions, people are also complaining about the quality, particularly of written language, of the apparent failure of people to master linguistic structures, due to technology that allows children to use three vowels to write sentences that would have taken us three lines to write, among other things.
I hope that the centre, whose mission is not to replace the Ministry of Education, will nevertheless through its work lead by example and allow a greater number of individuals to develop their linguistic abilities. I come from Saint- Georges de Beauce and I am not convinced that when we were little, we had more or less vocabulary than today. There is a problem, you are no doubt correct, and I will take note of your concern and your questions regarding the quality of French.
I imagine that what matters is the overall state of affairs. There are also young people who speak quite remarquable French among us, in fairly great numbers, but I agree with you that there is also slang creeping in, pushing the language down a slippery slope.
Senator Champagne: We have kept French alive for 400 years, at the very least we should speak it well.
Senator Comeau: It is always a pleasure to have you here, Mr. Roy. I congratulate the Quebec National Assembly for this excellent initiative to unanimously adopt the motion to establish the centre, and the Quebec government for this bill.
Finally, Mr. Roy, I want to congratulate you for having decided to chair the board of this new centre. I know that you will serve it well, since you are very familiar with the North American francophonie. I think that we will have a good person heading this organization.
For a number of years, Mr. Roy, Quebec was outside the North American francophone community, and I think we know the reason for that. We will not look back at history, but let us just say that Quebeckers were outside the francophonie and francophones living outside Quebec would have liked then to put an end to this isolation. We think that the establishment of this centre finally turns the page on this chapter of history, and that we will all be together as North American francophones and that you will be able to be the unifying force. I think that is stated in your charter.
Some regions, including Louisiana, need this leadership. Efforts have been made to preserve the francophonie, but they do need this leadership, and I think Quebec can offer it to them.
Have you targeted a number of regions in North America for greater involvement at the beginning of your mandate? I am thinking of places such as Louisiana or New England. I will not touch on Latin America, because I am not that familiar with it. Have you looked at such an approach?
Mr. Roy: The pleasure is mine, too, Senator Comeau. I am pleased to see you as well. I note with pleasure your appreciation for the creation of this centre by the government of Quebec. Your comments in this regard are similar to those I heard on Saturday from our partners. Some of these partners were burned in the past.
As I said earlier, there is a great deal of enthusiasm. I think this enthusiasm took some time developing. For the reasons you mentioned, there was a dramatic break. For 25 years, I have been saying Quebec was not doing what it should be doing with respect to the Canadian francophonie. That is why I agreed to chair this board, because I think the unanimous vote by the National Assembly changes things. It was not the Liberal Party or the Liberal government together with an opposition party, but rather all of the political parties after a lengthy study in committee, that unanimously passed the legislation on December 13, 2006. As a result, from that date onward, Quebec has had a very broad outlook, one that includes as a priority the communities of Canada, and more broadly the communities of the Americas, the United States and beyond, the regions we were speaking about earlier.
I have been surprised in recent days. In Quebec city, we were introduced and told about all sorts of initiatives. Together with the Council of the Federation, there are also all sorts of other forums for the Canadian francophonie today. For example, the Ministerial Conference on the Canadian Francophonie brings together ministers responsible for the francophonie in all the provinces and territories of Canada. That is no small achievement.
There are ministers responsible for the francophonie throughout the country, with no exceptions. In fact, there will be a ministerial conference held soon in Quebec City. A little later, as you know, Quebec City will host two major forums where hundreds of creative artists will gather from all over: the Forum on the Ministerial Conference in September, the Sommet de la Francophonie in October and November, and the Forum sur la Francophonie canadienne. Immediately afterward, there will be a forum on art and culture from the aboriginal communities, including Quebec, and the francophone communities of Canada.
When you say that you are pleased that Quebec has taken its place once again, clearly, openly, with no second thoughts, in the Canadian francophonie, that is precisely the achievement and change marked or wrought by this legislation.
What is done is done. We must now use 21st century tools to build a new awareness of the fragile nature of our being as francophone communities, including Quebec, in North America, and try to put this virtual puzzle together using initiatives that will allow us to explore new economic, cultural, and creative paths. Will some regions come before others?
We have started our initial discussions on programming and I am about to share with you my personal opinion. I feel that we should begin with the United States, where there are still communities with institutions, even though they may be fragile.
We have all kinds of ideas for programming, and they have not yet been brought forward, nor will that happen until the centre's administrator and the program committee have canvassed far and wide. What is in the Quebec bill will never be accomplished without the partners. So we will have to listen to these partners. We will have to see beyond what is already being done, because there is a lot that is being done now, in order to determine which second- generation initiatives the partners prefer, which ones are somewhat structuring, and do not represent case-by-case support.
We have $3.5 million in our budget for the first year. We will use the provision of the act that allows us to apply for additional resources, including within the private sector. Earlier, of course, I referred to the Asia Foundation in New York. We do have ambitions in that area, and hope that funds will quickly be forthcoming, because that sort of structuring endeavour is not something that can be done long-term without additional resources. We hope that the federal government will work with us on the programming side and I know that discussions have been held with Heritage Canada.
Senator Goldstein: Senator Comeau asked the crucial question. I must tell you, Madam Senator, that the sad state of the written and spoken language is not a malaise, an illness or a shortcoming among young francophones alone.
It is an illness and a shortcoming among all young people, period! And it is of little consolation to know that this applies to both the English and the French language.
I have two questions for Mr. Roy. First, thank you for taking the time to speak with us today.
Do you have enough resources to intervene in Louisiana and in New England, or elsewhere in the United States, in view of the fragile state of francophone communities throughout Canada and the fact that smaller western Canadian communities could easily disappear?
Do you believe that you currently have enough human and physical resources to carry out all of this work?
Mr. Roy: I agree with you when you say that the poor quality of language is not particular to the French language alone. If you find some way to improve the situation in the anglophone world, I hope that you will let us know. If the illnesses are similar, then perhaps the same remedy could apply in both cases.
Will we have enough money? I said earlier that our first year's operating budget was $3.5 million. Part of that comes from the Quebec government, and we are most grateful. It is obvious that it is not enough, and we will waste no time getting down to business. I have already said that we have spoken to the federal government. Some provincial governments have also been approached, and I would say that the initial response has been encouraging.
We will go even further with private foundations and interest groups. You know, each one has its strengths and its weaknesses. Those who know me also know that when I arrive within an organization, money quickly follows; at Rights and Democracy, budgets more than doubled in three years.
Obviously, if we want to rise to the challenge of our entire mandate, then we will need a much larger budget.
But it is not our job to make up for what should be done by the provincial and federal governments; we will be working at another level to provide communities in need with additional resources. We will also try to work with the youngest generations, those to whom we will in some way entrust our future.
To come back to your question: we are happy with the initial budget, but it will not be enough for subsequent years. More money will have to be added very quickly.
Senator Goldstein: Do you have some type of action plan that would allow us to see how your current resources will be allocated?
Mr. Roy: On the weekend we looked at possible intervention strategies for education, the media, multimedia, and many other areas. I wanted us to keep all of these interesting approaches as possibilities, and have us work on meeting with communities until October 15. There are so many wonderful things that are being done and that are not necessarily being recognized. We do not want to reinvent the wheel. We have a three-member program committee that will be travelling from community to community, as well as an executive director. And I will also be involved.
I hope that by mid-October we will have an idea of what areas are absolutely essential for the next five years, and this will be related to the results that we hope to achieve by using new technologies.
I would be surprised if we were not involved in areas related to education and the economy. The portal will include one entire section on the economy. Manitoba's experience in this regard is absolutely exceptional. What francophones in Manitoba have managed to do in French, when it comes to the economy, for instance by twinning with the Alsace region, and the work with the Quebec Beauce region, is stunning and will be used as a model. So we are considering education and culture.
Everyone is expecting us to go beyond what we already have in terms of touring artists, creators, theatre groups, people who play music and dance, so that this undertaking in which we will invest might create new tour circuits, particularly in the United States and Latin America.
That is all that I can tell you for the time being. I would be happy to return to appear before the committee once our ideas have been fleshed out and our decisions have been made.
Senator Tardif: I would also like to congratulate the Quebec government for creating the Centre de la francophonie des Amériques. I am delighted to see that the Quebec government has changed its outlook, and this would apply more particularly to Premier Jean Charest, and I am happy to hear what Intergovernmental Affairs Minister Benoît Pelletier had to say about francophones outside Quebec.
I sense that a rapprochement is occurring. There is a move towards inclusion rather than exclusion of francophones outside Quebec. This is very positive. The new Quebec policy on the Canadian francophonie provides for a unifying role for Quebec to bring together francophones within Quebec, outside Quebec and elsewhere in North America.
Practically speaking, what will Quebec's leadership role within your organization mean for other francophone communities outside Quebec? What role would you foresee for these minority communities within your centre?
Mr. Roy: I would first like to comment on your remarks regarding a change in policy. Clearly, the centre is one aspect of a political whole which is Quebec's new policy respecting the communities. I am pleased to remind you that the centre was created by a unanimous vote of the National Assembly. The government took the initiative, but all political parties in the Assembly concurred. That is one important aspect of this change.
Regarding Quebec's leadership, I would say that the creation of the centre is an act of leadership on the part of the Government of Quebec, clearly. I cannot see how anyone else other than the Government of Quebec could have done this and backed it with the resources the Government of Quebec has decided to invest.
That said, I would like to get back to what I was saying earlier on. Although Quebec created this project from the ground up, it cannot come to fruition without partners, that would be absolutely absurd.
In this world of networks and new media, if we really want to create Canada-wide, North-America-wide, and Americas-wide initiatives, we need very strong community involvement. Communities have already started connecting with the centre. I just gave you the example of Manitoba and of the economy.
The programming committee is exclusively made up of members of the centre who are from outside Quebec, which is rather extraordinary, some would say. Quebec's leadership role will, I hope, in time come to an end; I hope we are entering the 21st century collectively and that initiatives will arise from everywhere and interesting ideas will not come from one single source, and that coordination and consistency will be the result of the will of all those involved. This is Quebec's project but it will fail if the partners do not support it, that is how I see things.
What Quebec has to offer is serious start-up support, an address in this world where there are not very many addresses left. People write from everywhere and receive information from everywhere, but what Quebec has to offer and no one else can offer, I would hope — we will have to see in due course — is some continuity from a political standpoint, a will to make this project work, to invest the necessary resources into it.
I took some precautions before accepting this position. I get the impression that the Assembly's unanimous vote was an indication that if in five years, five months, or 50 years' time, there were to be a change in government in the province of Quebec, the support for this centre would remain solid.
Senator Tardif: You referred to an address and to programming, but is there a research component which would be included at the centre?
Mr. Roy: Thank you for asking me this question, I did not spontaneously address it. We currently have a team of 25 researchers in universities throughout Quebec who, based on work already carried out by the International Organization of La Francophonie, are trying to update the most comprehensive picture possible of the Francophonie in the United States and in Latin America.
Make no mistake, we have a handle on the data for Quebec and Canada with respect to the francophonie. So, we want to have the most comprehensive family portrait possible. So there is an entire team currently working on that.
I think that the answer to your question about the long term is also positive. I believe the francophonie needs to get reacquainted with itself, with what is currently happening. I believe we should also look at. . . I do not like these expressions, but they do say something. . . all the better if the francophonie from an intergovernmental perspective has seen progress at the same time, it only makes sense insofar as francophone society progresses. What are the conditions for progress? Why do children remain in French schools when they are 14, 15 or 16? Research is underway by Statistics Canada, but there will probably be additional research carried out as well.
We are also going to look into new commercial, economic and cultural networks. When you look at French products being exported, from France, in French, (films and books) Latin America is the top market. Perhaps there may be some openings for the 14 French-language publishers in Ontario, for the many French-language publishing houses in Quebec, and more broadly for film and video. Do Latin American radio and television networks have French-language programming? Do we know? Can we supply them with some? Are there French-language teaching programs which we could support, through the Internet, through our supply? This type of research could be done.
Which leads me to discuss market resources, points of reference, what could be referred to as investment. To get back to Senator Comeau's question from earlier on, he was asking what our investment priorities are. Our priority would be to invest in areas where there is a chance we may quickly see the best possible results.
Senator Losier-Cool: I would also like to take this opportunity to welcome you. All of us here are great advocates for the francophonie. The clock is ticking and I will be brief and specific. I must tell you that I enjoyed the Le Devoir article published two weeks ago where you discussed the issues surrounding the Quebec City Summit and followed up on a question from Senators Goldstein and Comeau regarding education and distance education; I share your viewpoint entirely.
That said, perhaps my question is not so much for the president of the Centre de la francophonie des Amériques, but rather for the person you have become thanks to the experience you have gained through all the positions you have held. In order to advise this committee which has decided to study French-Canadian culture, and specifically francophones in a minority setting, do you think the federal government should develop a national cultural policy? If so, what should it entail? If Quebec has such a policy, in what way could we build on it to help us develop a national policy?
Mr. Roy: Senator, I also am pleased to see you, we have known each other a long time and worked together over the years. You are asking me a very difficult question. There is no doubt in my mind that all major states, including the United States, massively invest in cultural policy.
I am sure that you are seeking out the book which may be the most important and most recent French-language study on American culture and on the investment made by the federal government in the U.S., the 51 governments of each state and the 900 American cities which have arts councils or their equivalent. This book, ``De la culture en Amérique'' was written by a French gentleman, Frédéric Martel, and it shows to what extent, for instance, there are no free trade agreements signed by the Americans without a chapter on culture. I am referring to the American example because culture is so strong there, there is no Department of Culture but culture is everywhere. The U.S. administration's support for culture — and the American example is striking — involves not only direct support but tax support, and foreign policy measures. I was mentioning free trade agreements, the cultural policy surrounding the circulation of artists' work, American artists and the welcome given to artists from across the world in the United States. It goes without saying that major European countries do a great deal to support culture.
This is not what you suggested, but it would be out of the ordinary for Canada to decrease its support for culture or for it to maintain the status quo. Earlier on I was referring to new technology and Senator Champagne referred to youth and language quality.
It is essential to create a new cultural policy province. Perhaps the word ``province'' is not well chosen in this context, perhaps I should say a new space for cultural policy to meet the needs of younger generations when it comes to culture.
Youth do not access culture the way we do. They were born with a mouse, a computer, an iPod. There is a great deal of work to be done and if Canada does not do it, the initiative will come from abroad. There are no barriers anymore and if only for that reason, the concept of territory as congruent with cultural production has been abolished throughout the world.
So, we certainly must revise Canadian cultural policy. I would like to point something out which I consider very important. I referred to this in a Le Devoir article and you were kind enough to refer to it. The fact is that China is making a cultural effort at least as big as its economic effort, and that is going to happen on a massive scale.
I would like to remind you that in the United States, Senator Lieberman introduced a bill which over the next few years will support American institutions wanting to integrate Mandarin within their programs. This initiative is of a value of $1.3 billion, which is significant. We see that things are changing. The objective is that 5 per cent of American students graduate from training equivalent to CEGEP with a knowledge of Mandarin. The knowledge of foreign languages is also part of culture. I think the way in which Canada falls back on its archaic quota methods should be revised because it makes no sense today.
There are no more barriers. Today, it is possible to tune in to any television or radio station throughout the world. What should Canada produce from a cultural standpoint? What level, what quality, and what sensibilities should it provide so that what it has to offer overall is not completely lost? That is, to my mind, a major challenge. All the more so because we know how difficult it is to achieve.
We only need to look at the CBC's ratings, including truly Canadian programming, not simply adaptations of American shows. When you look at the ratings, it is astounding to see how much difficulty Canada is having linking our citizens with our country's own cultural programming.
So, there remains a great deal of work to be done and I am pleased that the Senate is interested in this. I am certain that now that you have taken the first step you will be compelled to walk the entire path and go from prairie to prairie. I think you are undertaking a long journey.
Senator Losier-Cool: I believe we all now have the desire to jump in with both feet. You mentioned that there would be a forum held in Quebec City on arts and culture in November. I should hope that francophone artists from outside Quebec will be there, and I am sure that if Zachary Richard attends, he will remind you of this.
It would be good to consider the initiatives proposed at the États généraux sur les arts et la culture which took place in Caraquet in 2007. I hope that in the upcoming Quebec City forum in November, the francophonie in a minority setting will be well represented. Thank you.
Mr. Roy: I believe that three quarters of the 400 people participating in the forum will be representing minorities from other regions of Canada.
The Chair: Mr. Roy, once again I thank you sincerely for having accepted our invitation. I speak on behalf of the members of the Senate committee to wish you much success in this great initiative which you hold near and dear to your heart, as do we. Please rest assured that we will be following your work closely as well as that of the board.
Mr. Roy: Thank you, Madam chair. I wish the committee good luck with its future business.
The committee continued in camera.