Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Aboriginal Peoples
Issue 1 - Evidence - Meeting of February 24, 2009
OTTAWA, Tuesday, February 24, 2009
The Standing Senate Committee on Aboriginal Peoples met this day at 10:15 a.m., pursuant to rule 88 of the Rules of the Senate, to organize the activities of the committee.
[English]
Marcy Zlotnick, Clerk of the Committee: Honourable senators, as clerk of your committee, it is my duty to preside over the election of the chair. I am ready to receive a motion to that effect. Are there any nominations?
Senator Carstairs: I nominate the Honourable Senator St. Germain.
[Translation]
Ms. Zlotnick: It is moved by the Honourable Senator Carstairs that the Honourable Senator St. Germain be the chair of the committee. Is it agreed, honourable senators?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
Ms. Zlotnick: I invite the Honourable Senator St. Germain to take his seat as chair.
[English]
Senator Gerry St. Germain (Chair) in the chair.
The Chair: Thank you Senator Carstairs. Our next item is to see to the election of the deputy chair. May I have a motion to appoint the deputy chair?
Senator Carstairs: I move that the Honourable Senator Nick Sibbeston be the deputy chair of this committee.
The Chair: It is moved by the Honourable Senator Carstairs that the Honourable Senator Sibbeston be deputy chair of this committee. Is it agreed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: It is moved that the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be composed of the chair, the deputy chair and one other member of the committee to be designated after the usual consultation, and that the subcommittee be empowered to make the decisions on behalf of the committee with respect to its agenda to invite witnesses and to schedule hearings.
It is so moved by Senator Lang and seconded by Senator Munson. We like to mention the presence of senators like Senator Munson and these great Eastern Canadians.
Senator Munson: I am just watching our troops, sir.
The Chair: All those in favour?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: The next item is a motion that the committee print its proceedings and that the chair be authorized to set the number to meet demand. Could I have a motion to that effect? Senator Carstairs. All those in favour?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: The next item is authorization to hold meetings and to print evidence when quorum is not present. The motion states that pursuant to rule 89, that the chair be authorized to hold meetings, to receive and authorize the printing of the evidence when quorum is not present, provided that a member of the committee from both the government and the opposition be present.
Could I have a motion to that effect?
Senator Peterson. All those in favour? Carried.
The next item is financial reports; that the committee adopt the draft first report, prepared in accordance with rule 104. Are you moving it, Senator Carstairs? All those in favour? Opposed, if any?
The next item concerns research staff. The motion states that the committee ask the Library of Parliament to assign analysts to the committee. That the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be authorized to retain the services of such experts as may be required by the work of the committee and that the chair, on behalf of the committee, direct the research staff in the preparation of studies, analyses, summaries and draft reports.
Moved by Senator Raine.
I would like to call on the Library of Parliament analysts Tonina Simeone and Karin Phillips. I would like to ask them to join us at the table and I hope all honourable senators will take the opportunity to meet these fine assistants. Please do not hesitate to contact them when you need assistance. Many of us here have worked with Tonina and she has produced some of the most excellent work that you could possibly imagine. If you need information, feel free to contact these people and you can do it through the clerk, Marcy Zlotnick. All members of the committee should meet Ms. Zlotnick. If you have any particular challenges, or anything you want to discuss, Marcy has been excellent in working with the committee.
The next motion concerns the authority to commit funds and certify accounts. The motion states that pursuant to section 7, chapter 3:06 of the Senate Administrative Rules, authority to commit funds be conferred individually on the chair, the deputy chair and the clerk of the committee. It reads that pursuant to section 8, chapter 3:06 of the Senate Administrative Rules, authority for certifying accounts payable by the committee be conferred individually on the chair, the deputy chair and the clerk of the committee, and that notwithstanding the foregoing in cases related to consultants and personnel services, the authority to commit funds and certify accounts be conferred jointly on the chair and deputy chair.
Do I have a mover to that effect? Senator Peterson. All those in favour? Those opposed, if any? Carried.
The next motion refers to travel; that the committee empower the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure to designate, as required, one or more members of the committee and/or such staff as may be necessary to travel on assignment on behalf of the committee.
So moved by Senator Brazeau. All those in favour? Those opposed? Carried.
The next item is motion 10 and the designation of members travelling on committee business. It reads that the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be authorized to determine whether any member of the committee is on "official business'' for the purposes of paragraph 8(3)(a) of the Senators Attendance Policy, published in the Journals of the Senate on Wednesday, June 3, 1998. It also states that the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure consider any member of the committee to be on "official business'' if that member is attending an event or meeting related to the work of the committee, or making a presentation related to the work of the committee. It follows that the subcommittee report at the earliest opportunity any decisions taken with respect to the designation of members of the committee travelling on committee business.
Do I have a senator to move that, please? Senator Sibbeston.
All those in favour? Those opposed, if any? Carried.
Our next item concerns the travelling and living expenses of witnesses. The motion reads that pursuant to the Senate guidelines for witness expenses, the committee may reimburse reasonable travelling and living expenses for one witness from any one organization and payment will take place upon application, but that the chair be authorized to approve expenses for a second witness should there be exceptional circumstances.
Moved by the Honourable Senator Carstairs. All those in favour? Opposed, if any? Carried.
We now have a motion concerning electronic media coverage of public meetings. This motion states that the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be empowered to allow coverage by electronic media of the committee's public proceedings with the least possible disruption of its hearings at its discretion.
Do I have a senator to move that particular item? Senator Lang? So moved.
The next item is not a motion but strictly information. It concerns our time slot for the regular meetings of the Standing Senate Committee on Aboriginal Peoples. That scheduled time is Tuesdays 9:30 a.m. to 11:30 a.m. and Wednesdays 6:30 p.m. to 8:30 p.m.
Honourable senators, we would like to go to future business. I believe we should do this portion in camera. You do not want to go in camera?
Honourable senators, in our last session we obtained from the Senate an overarching order of reference allowing us to study any question touching on Aboriginal issues. This allowed us to proceed to study different questions without having to seek a new order of reference each time we wanted to embark on a new issue. I have the text of a motion used last session, which I will read, and copies I believe have been circulated.
That the Standing Senate Committee on Aboriginal Peoples be authorized to examine and report on the federal government's constitutional, treaty, political and legal responsibilities to First Nations, Inuit and Metis peoples and on other matters generally relating to the Aboriginal Peoples of Canada.
That the Committee submit its final report to the Senate no later than . . . .
Colleagues, if you agree, it would be efficient to adopt this motion. I invite one of you to move this motion and I suggest that the end date for the final report be March 31, 2010, which corresponds with the end of the fiscal year.
Senator Campbell: So moved.
Senator Lang: The context of the motion is very broad and encompassing. Perhaps you could tell us the intent of the motion. I can see this will be very time consuming and when it is all finished there are going to be all sorts of differences of opinion, whether right or wrong, knowing a little bit of the background of what we are dealing with. Perhaps you could just fill in the new members on this motion.
The Chair: We are trying to allow the committee the flexibility to study issues as they arise because First Nations issues can change daily. The issue one day might be safe drinking water and the next day the major issue could be related to the implementation of treaties. This motion gives us the flexibility to do the work as it presents itself.
Under the able leadership of Senator Sibbeston, we studied economic development and then we studied the specific claims legislation and implementation. We do not do this arbitrarily. Historically, we have sat down with the minister — and I am not sure if it is the wish of this committee — and tried to study areas that he has made request of but we are not bound by that. This has given us the flexibility of studying whatever is in the best interests of Aboriginal peoples.
I know that it is a broad request but, in the same breath, this is such an important file. Senator Lang, historically, this committee has worked as non-partisan as any committee. I hope that we continue with that venue because we are dealing with individuals who have faced many challenges. By being non-partisan we have been able to further many of the causes and specific claims is one of them. In the specific claim study, the legislation essentially mirrored the study.
Senator Sibbeston: This is a broad mandate for our committee, but in the process, we will eventually sit around this table and ask for suggestions in terms of what studies might interest the committee. Some of our work involves legislation that comes before us, but when that does not occur, we undertake studies on different subjects as the committee dictates. In that way, there is an opportunity for our committee to deal with subjects of study in which members may be interested. It moves from this very general mandate to subjects that are more specific.
It is an opportunity. It is a general mandate and we will have an opportunity to discuss amongst ourselves subjects that interest us. We might include some travel. Last winter, we had the good fortune to meet representatives of the Navajo Nation. We had the opportunity to meet four different Aboriginal groups while we were in the United States and we observed their forms of governance, their education system and other aspects of their society. That was helpful and informative for this committee. We can do things of that nature.
Senator Carstairs: Why did the committee feel it necessary to pass this motion in addition to the mandate that you are presently afforded under the Rules of the Senate? There must have been some reason for that.
The Chair: The rules do not give us the latitude that this motion does, and I think the latitude is required because of the changing nature of the committee. I do not know whether "landscape'' is the correct word, but things change so rapidly and this motion gives us the latitude that we need. It has served us well for a number of years.
Senator Carstairs: Then if I can make a suggestion, perhaps some time in our deliberations we should consider changing the mandate of the committee in the rules so that this would be automatic and would not have to come to a vote in the chamber. That can be done simply by a simple rule change.
The Chair: I am not an expert on rules and regulations although I have been on the committee. If that is a possibility then that is something we could examine. I will ask the clerk to look at that and get back to us.
This motion means we do not have to go back to the chamber and ask for a reference. If we decide there is and urgent issue we can go to it, and I think you have one that you just discussed with me, senator.
Are there any other questions? There is a steering committee as well that finds out the consensus of the committee and then we sit down as a steering committee with the vice-chair and the chair and then one other person, and that one other person will be from the opposition. Those three senators form the steering committee that takes the information, dissects it and comes up with recommendations to the full committee.
Senator Fairbairn: I am here today because Senator Hubley is unable to attend. However, just listening to you and knowing what you have done and the things that are in the wind of so many things that can be discussed at this meeting, I just want to let you know, Mr. Chairman, that whenever I can come I will be making an effort to join you during your hearings.
The Chair: That is encouraging because I am familiar with the area you live in and represent. I am aware that your area has a vast First Nation population; you have some great First Nations in that area. I hope that though our studies and recommendations that we can pass on to the committee some of the successes they have enjoyed.
Senator Lang: I so move.
The Chair: All those in favour? Those opposed, if any?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Another issue that I would like to deal with is that of government responses. Last year we sought the government's response to our report on implementation of comprehensive land claims agreements. The session ended before the time had elapsed for the government to provide the response. I have the wording of the motion for the government response, which I will read now. Hard copies are available in French and English.
That, pursuant to rule 131(2), the Senate request a complete and detailed response from the government to the fifth report of the Standing Senate Committee on Aboriginal Peoples, entitled Honouring the Spirit of Modern Treaties: Closing the Loopholes, tabled in the Senate on May 15, 2008 and adopted by the Senate on May 27, 2008, with the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development and Federal Interlocutor for Metis and Non-Status Indians, and the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs and President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada being identified as Ministers responsible for responding.
Colleagues, if we want to renew the request for a government response I would ask that one of you move a motion to this effect.
Senator Lang: Have we not received a response?
The Chair: That is correct. The house prorogued before we received a response, and it is customary that we ask for a response, and we have not received it as of yet dealing with this study, which was something really attended to by our First Nations people, because implementation has become a huge challenge to the modern treaties that have been signed.
Senator Lang: Just as a point of interest for the committee, I know it is a major concern in the Yukon. The land claims have been settled and implementation is now a big question as to where exactly the Government of Canada stands.
The Chair: It is moved that a request for government responses articulated be sought from the Senate. All in favour? Carried.
I would open the floor to members to offer suggestions on the future business of the committee. Senator Carstairs has indicated she has something to discuss. Senator Carstairs, you have the floor.
Senator Carstairs: Thank you, Mr. Chair. In the October 2008 election, it became clear in the Churchill riding, and I suspect in many ridings across the country, that many Aboriginal peoples were denied the opportunity to vote because of the implementation of the Canada Elections Act that requires photo ID.
In my province, for example, medical cards do not have photo ID on them. Many Aboriginal people do not have a driver's licence. Treaty cards in Manitoba do not have photo ID.
This was addressed in the report of the Chief Electoral Officer of Canada on the fortieth election campaign in his report, and he said on page 44:
Anecdotal reports from election officers indicate that meeting the identification requirements was particularly challenging for some population groups, including Aboriginal people living on reserves and seniors in long-term care facilities.
I suggest that we ask the Chief Electoral Officer to appear before us to explain what evidence he has that, in fact, people were denied the right to vote, particularly Aboriginal people since that is the mandate of this committee. I suggest that we ascertain what the Chief Electoral Officer thinks needs to be done to rectify this situation before the next election, whenever that might be.
I move that the committee hear from the Chief Electoral Officer of Canada.
The Chair: Is there any discussion in regards to this matter?
Senator Peterson: I concur because we should study the issue of civic addresses, which very few First Nations have. That was an obvious problem in Saskatchewan and I believe the committee should address that issue.
Senator Sibbeston: I am aware that in the Northwest Territories there was a problem with respect to identification in the larger centres, places like Yellowknife, but not so in the smaller communities where the identification was not required because people just knew each other. It was not a common problem in those settings.
I agree that there would be some value in having the election officer appear before us to try to deal with it so this does not happen in the future.
The Chair: We have a motion.
A note from our able staff states that we could ask the Chief Electoral Officer to appear to perhaps cover the situation better. Are you in favour of that?
Senator Carstairs: Agreed.
The Chair: It is a friendly amendment.
Senator Carstairs: Yes.
The Chair: It is moved by Senator Carstairs that we invite the Chief Electoral Officer to appear before the committee. Are you ready for the question? All in favour?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Is there any other discussion? We will call a meeting of the steering committee. Senator Sibbeston, congratulations on being the deputy chair again; I look forward to working with you as I think we have worked very effectively in the past, and I hope we can continue in that way. We will sit down as a steering committee.
Honourable senators, I want to make you aware that in the past, the entire committee has met with the Minister of Indian Affairs. We had dinner with him, and I would like to do this again, if it is the consensus of the committee, because it gives us an idea of where he is going and the problems he has. In principle, if this can be arranged, is everyone agreed that we do this?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: The sooner the better?
Senator Lang: I want to jump in here. My understanding is that we are supposed to be working with the department and trying, in part, to identify areas that they want to look at in-depth, to look at some areas that need to be addressed, and it would seem to me sooner than later would be appropriate.
The Chair: I asked the sooner the better. We do not need a motion for this as it is on consensus. I plan on doing that, and unless anything comes up, we will adjourn to next week. We do not have anything lined up for tomorrow night. Unless we can arrange something in the next few hours, we will adjourn to next week at this time, but if we can get the Chief Electoral Officer, we will have them here tomorrow night.
Senator Raine: If we are going to meet with the minister, could we do it on Wednesday night for dinner? Our meeting is from 6:30 to 8:30. It is very difficult to organize our time otherwise.
The Chair: What did we do last time? Did we meet on a Tuesday or a Wednesday? We will try.
Senator Raine: We have that time slot already plugged in.
The Chair: I hear you. Are there any other comments? Is everyone happy?
There is no other business to discuss at this time. Honourable senators, I thank all of you for joining the committee. We can do good things, and I think we can do them in an enjoyable manner. I will do my utmost to make certain that everyone participates equally in this committee and that all views are respected. If we go forward in that manner, people like Senators Peterson, Campbell and Sibbeston, who have been on this committee with us in the past, will substantiate what I have said. Let us move forward in a positive way. Thank you.
(The committee adjourned.)