Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
National Security and Defence
Issue 8 - Minutes of Proceedings
OTTAWA, Wednesday, June 15, 2009
(14)
[English]
The Standing Senate Committee on National Security and Defence met this day, at 4:00 p.m., in room 2, Victoria Building, the chair, the Honourable Colin Kenny, presiding.
Members of the committee present: The Honourable Senators Banks, Day, Kenny, Manning, Meighen, Moore, Tkachuk, Wallin and Zimmer (9).
Other senator present: The Honourable Senator Nolin (1).
In attendance: Allison Goody and Martin Auger, Analysts, Parliamentary Information and Research Service, Library of Parliament; Inspector Larry Brookson, RCMP liaison officer.
Also present: The official reporters of the Senate.
Pursuant to the order of reference adopted by the Senate on Thursday, March 5, 2009, the committee continued its study on the national security policy of Canada. (For complete text of the order of reference, see proceedings of the committee, Issue No. 2.)
The Honourable Senator Wallin raised a point of order on the process for committees to consider requests for contracts for the hiring of consultants.
Debate arose thereon.
CHAIR'S RULING
There is no point of order because no motion for the committee to consider requests for contracts has been brought forward.
The Honourable Senator Banks moved:
That the proposed requests for contracts, for Keith McDonald, Barry Denofsky, Dan Turner and Maureen Boyd be approved by the committee, as authorized by the chair on May 28, 2009.
Debate arose thereon.
The Honourable Senator Tkachuk moved:
That the motion be amended by adding "That the committee respond in full, at the earliest practical opportunity to the recommendations of the deputy chair, regarding the wording of requests for contracts for consultants.''
After debate, the question being put on the motion in amendment, it was negatived on the following vote:
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Manning, Meighen, Tkachuk and Wallin — 4
NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Banks, Day, Kenny, Moore and Zimmer — 5
ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senators
Nil
The Honourable Senator Tkachuk raised a point of order that the motion moved by the Honourable Senator Banks contravenes the process recommended by the Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration for the approval of requests for contracts.
Debate arose thereon.
CHAIR'S RULING
The Senate recognizes that committees are their own master, and the full committee can override its subcommittee, the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure, any time it chooses. When the full committee is seized with an issue, which it is now, that takes precedence over any of its subcommittees. That is why we are here meeting to discuss this issue now as a full committee. Clearly, nine people have more moral authority than three people on a subcommittee.
Whereupon the chair's ruling was appealed.
The question being put on whether the chair's ruling shall be sustained, it was adopted on the following vote:
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Banks, Day, Kenny, Moore and Zimmer — 5
NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Manning, Meighen, Tkachuk and Wallin — 4
ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senators
Nil
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted on the following vote:
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Banks, Day, Kenny, Moore and Zimmer — 5
NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Manning, Meighen, Tkachuk and Wallin — 4
ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senators
Nil
The Honourable Senator Banks moved:
That notwithstanding the motion adopted on March 2, 2009, the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be composed of five members: the chair, the deputy chair, the Honourable Senator Banks, one other senator, to be named by the deputy chair and one other senator, to be named by the chair.
Debate arose thereon.
The Honourable Senator Wallin moved:
That the motion be amended by adding "and that there be a quorum of three and that a member of both the government and opposition be present at all meetings and be involved in all decisions.''
After debate, the motion in amendment was negatived on the following vote:
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Manning, Meighen, Tkachuk and Wallin — 4
NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Banks, Day, Kenny, Moore and Zimmer — 5
ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senators
Nil
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted on the following vote:
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Banks, Day, Kenny, Moore and Zimmer — 5
NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Manning, Meighen, Tkachuk and Wallin — 4
ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senators
Nil
The Honourable Senator Tkachuk raised a point of order on the motion adopted by the committee regarding the composition of the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure on the grounds that this motion rescinds a previous resolution of the committee and that pursuant to rule 63 (2) of the Rules of the Senate, a motion to rescind a previous resolution requires a 2/3rds majority in order to be adopted.
Debate arose thereon.
CHAIR'S RULING
There is no point of order.
The Honourable Senator Day moved:
That the fact-finding trips to various border posts take place on the following dates:
Ontario borders: July 15-17, 2009;
Quebec borders: July 20-21, 2009;
Maritimes borders: July 22-24, 2009;
BC borders: July 29-31, 2009; and
Alberta borders: September 9-11, 2009; and
That the committee agree to cover travel costs for two members on each of these trips, ideally a member from the Government and one from the Opposition. However, notwithstanding previous agreements, if a member from either side is unavailable and cannot be replaced by a member from their own side, the committee shall pay the expense for two members from the other side if available.
Debate arose thereon.
It was agreed that the motion be amended by deleting the words "BC borders: July 29-31, 2009.''
After debate, the question being put on the motion, as amended, it was adopted, on division, by a show of hands.
The Honourable Senator Zimmer moved:
That the committee's fact-finding trip to visit East Coast military bases be scheduled to take place from July 5-10, 2009.
After debate, the question being put on the motion, it was adopted on the following vote:
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Banks, Day, Kenny, Moore and Zimmer — 5
NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Manning, Meighen, Tkachuk and Wallin — 4
ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senators
Nil
At 5:32 p.m., the committee adjourned to the call of the chair.
ATTEST:
OTTAWA, Wednesday, June 17, 2009
(15)
[English]
The Standing Senate Committee on National Security and Defence met this day, at 12:57 p.m., in room 257, East Block, the chair, the Honourable Colin Kenny, presiding.
Members of the committee present: The Honourable Senators Banks, Day, Kenny, Meighen, and Wallin (5).
In attendance: Jim Cox, Analyst, Parliamentary Information and Research Service, Library of Parliament.
Also present: The official reporters of the Senate.
Pursuant to the order of reference adopted by the Senate on Tuesday, June 9, 2009, the committee continued its consideration of Bill C-33, An Act to amend the War Veterans Allowance Act. (For complete text of the order of reference, see proceedings of the committee, Issue No. 2.)
The Honourable Senator Meighen, Chair of the Subcommittee on Veterans Affairs, to which had been referred on Wednesday, June 10, 2009, the study on Bill C-33, An Act to amend the War Veterans Allowance Act, reported that the subcommittee has examined said bill and now reports the same without amendment.
The Honourable Senator Kenny moved:
That the committee adopt Bill C-33, An Act to amend the War Veterans Allowance Act without amendment and that the Honourable Senator Meighen report the bill to the Senate, at the earliest available opportunity.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
At 12:59 p.m., the committee adjourned to the call of the chair.
ATTEST:
OTTAWA, Wednesday, June 22, 2009
(16)
[English]
The Standing Senate Committee on National Security and Defence met in camera this day, at 4 p.m., in room 7, Victoria Building, the chair, the Honourable Colin Kenny, presiding.
Members of the committee present: The Honourable Senators Banks, Campbell, Carstairs, Kenny, Lang, Manning, Meighen, Moore, Tkachuk and Wallin (10).
In attendance: Allison Goody, Holly Porteous and Martin Auger, Analysts, Parliamentary Information and Research Service, Library of Parliament.
Also present: The official reporters of the Senate.
Pursuant to the order of reference adopted by the Senate on Thursday, March 5, 2009, the committee continued its study on the national security policy of Canada. (For complete text of the order of reference, see proceedings of the committee, Issue No. 2)
WITNESSES:
Customs and Immigration Union:
Ron Moran, National President;
Jean-Pierre Fortin, 1st National Vice-President.
Canada Border Services Agency:
Kimber Johnston, Vice-President, Enforcement Branch;
Barbara Hébert, Vice-President, Operations Branch.
Pursuant to rule 92(2)(e), the committee commenced in camera to consider its draft agenda.
It was agreed that staff be permitted to remain in the room for the in camera portions of today's meeting.
It was agreed that the committee recognize that the Honourable Senators Moore, Mitchell and Tkachuk were present, in room 257-E, East Block, on Wednesday June 17, 2009, at 1:15 p.m., when the meeting of the Standing Senate Committee on National Security and Defence was scheduled to have taken place.
It was agreed that the following material be filed as an exhibit with the clerk of the committee:
Response from the Honourable Peter Van Loan, Minister of Public Safety, to questions
taken on notice at the May 11, 2009 meeting.
(Exhibit 5900-2.40/N2-SS-1-7, 5, "6'')
Response from the Canada Border Services Agency, to questions taken on notice at the
March 30, 2009 meeting.
(Exhibit 5900-2.40/N2-SS-1-7, 5, "7'')
At 4:16 p.m., the committee suspended.
At 4:28 p.m., the committee resumed in public, in room 2, Victoria Building.
The chair made opening remarks.
Mr. Moran made a statement and together with Mr. Fortin answered questions.
At 4:57 p.m., the Honourable Senator Lang replaced the Honourable Senator Wallin as a member of the committee.
At 4:57 p.m., the Honourable Senator Nolin replaced the Honourable Senator Tkachuk as a member of the committee.
At 5:15 p.m., the Honourable Senator Tkachuk replaced the Honourable Senator Nolin as a member of the committee.
At 5:50 p.m., the committee suspended.
At 5:56 p.m. the committee resumed.
The chair made opening remarks.
Ms. Hébert made a statement and together with Ms. Johnston answered questions.
At 6:45 p.m., the Honourable Senator Nolin replaced the Honourable Senator Tkachuk as a member of the committee.
It was agreed that the committee continue to sit in order to allow the Honourable Senator Carstairs to finish her questions.
At 7:10 p.m., the committee adjourned to the call of the chair.
ATTEST:
Shaila Anwar
Clerk of the Committee