Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
National Security and Defence
Issue 10 - Evidence - November 23, 2009
OTTAWA, Monday, November 23, 2009
The Standing Senate Committee on National Security and Defence met this day at 4:26 p.m. to examine and report on the national security policy of Canada (topic: RCMP in transition); and in camera to consider a draft report.
Senator Colin Kenny (Chair) in the chair.
[English]
The Chair: I see a quorum and will call the meeting to order.
Senator Banks: Mr. Chair, I wish to make a motion. I move:
That the committee proceed in camera, pursuant to rule92(2)(f), for the consideration of a draft report; and
That senators' staff be permitted to remain in the room during the in camera portion of today's meeting; and
That all electronic devices be turned off, with the exception of the clerk's; and
That the committee allow the transcription of this in camera meeting, that only one copy of the unedited transcript be kept for consultation by committee members in the committee clerk's office, and that the transcript be destroyed by the clerk at the end of this parliamentary session.
Senator Wallin: I have a comment or a question. I do not know whether it is appropriate or not.
We have discussions every week about the specific language to be used in the report. Our respective staff members must go over to the clerk's office to review the transcript and write things down line by line so that when we get to a final version of this report, we are able to look back and check it against the things that we suggested and to which we agreed. Do we all have to troop over to the clerk's office and read through every page of testimony to say that all of us actually agreed to change the adjective "short'' to "tall''?
Shaila Anwar, Clerk of the Committee: The transcript belongs to the committee. If the committee instructs me to do something other than keep the transcript in my office for consultation, it would be up to the committee.
Senator Wallin: At some point perhaps we could rethink the notion that that is the only place it should rest.
Ms. Anwar: Please keep in mind that the deliberations that take place during an in camera meeting are confidential.
Senator Wallin: I understand that. However, for the committee's benefit —
The Chair: I am not sure about staff, but I do not see why we should not have it here.
Senator Wallin: That is what I am thinking. When we get to the final draft, I would take comfort to be able to read through the transcript. As much as I love the clerk, I do not seem to have enough hours in the day to hang out at her office for 22 hours.
The Chair: What are the views of committee members on the suggestionthat we ask the clerk to bring a copy here?
Senator Banks: After we have gone through the report once, I assume what will happen next is that we will all study a revised version of the report, which we do not yet have.
It would be important — that is, without flapping around for hours trying to find information— to find a way to index the questions so that we can find the deliberations and the results of the deliberations on this page, at that point, in the transcript.
Senator Wallin: I do not know how that would happen.
The Chair: Yes, it is difficult. Indexers are hard to come by. They are slow workers. Do we pay for them or does the Senate pay for them?
Ms. Anwar: The committee would have to pay for that service.
Senator Banks: If we do not do that, we will not be able to find, for example, "Here is what I recall having been said on that occasion and here is where it is.''
Senator Wallin: We might be able to remember on what day we discussed something. For example, "On November 23, we had a long discussion about chapter 5, and we all agreed X.'' We would then be able to go back to that. It would only come up if there was some startling—
The Chair: Could I suggest that we leave this to the steering committee and see what we can come up with in the next few days?
Senator Wallin: This is what I am trying to clarify: We, as a committee, can decide that we want the clerk of the committee to bring it here and we can look at it.
The Chair: Absolutely.
Senator Wallin: That is my only point.
The Chair: We made the decision in the first place and we can change it.
Senator Wallin: All right.
Senator Lang: Is everyone finished with that issue?
The Chair: Yes.
Senator Lang: I would like to raise a question of procedure. Is the committee presently on television?
The Chair: You can spot it over here, if it is being recorded. When it is on TV or being broadcast, the red light will be on. When we go in camera, the green light is on.
Senator Lang: I was wondering what you meant by "going in camera.''
The Chair: "In camera'' is a Latin phrase.
Senator Lang: I understand the phrase. I thought that prior to that point we were on TV.
The Chair: No. There is no television in this room.
Senator Wallin: What does the yellow sign mean? I have never looked there before.
The Chair: It is being recorded.
Senator Wallin: That is a sound reel? Is that what it is supposed to be?
Ms. Anwar: Yes.
Senator Wallin: Very modern.
Senator Banks: Also, this meeting is public now. As soon as we pass the motion that I made, it is no longer public.
Senator Lang: I understand that. I was not sure if the committee was being televised.
The Chair: Are you satisfied?
Senator Lang: Yes, I am satisfied with the answer.
The Chair: We have a motion before us.
Senator Moore: Could I have the motion read again, please?
Senator Banks: I move:
That the committee proceed in camera, pursuant to rule 92(2)(f), for the consideration of a draft report; and
That senators' staff be permitted to remain in the room during the in camera portion of today's meeting; and
That all electronic devices be turned off with the exception of the clerk's; and
That the committee allow the transcription of this in camera meeting, that only one copy of the unedited transcript be kept for consultation by committee members in the committee clerk's office, and that the transcript be destroyed by the clerk at the end of the parliamentary session.
Senator Wallin: Just a second. We will get to this before the end of the parliamentary session, so it will not be destroyed before we have access?
The Chair: Right.
Senator Wallin: Good.
The Chair: All those in favour?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: All those opposed?
Carried.
(The committee continued in camera).