Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
National Security and Defence
Issue 11 - Evidence - December 7, 2009
OTTAWA, Monday, December 7, 2009
The Standing Senate Committee on National Security and Defence met this day at 4:05 p.m. to examine and report on the national security policy of Canada (topic: RCMP in transition); and in camera for the consideration of a draft report.
Senator Colin Kenny (Chair) in the chair.
[English]
The Chair: I call the meeting to order.
Senators, despite our best efforts, Translation Bureau was not able to come through in a timely fashion, and so everyone has chapters 1 through 3, up to page 53, and no one received the English or the French of the others until this morning, meaning no one has had enough time to consider them. We will have to postpone that review for another opportunity.
If anyone does read it or has an opportunity to read it and wants to make adjustments and send them to the clerk, Wednesday would probably be the last time we could get something translated and changed in a timely way.
Senator Wallin: Sorry, changes to what part?
The Chair: The three chapters that I do not think we should look at now. We only received chapters —
Shaila Anwar, Clerk of the Committee: The intro to chapter 3, or up to page 52.
The Chair: Therefore, this morning we only received from page 53 on.
Senator Wallin: Right. However, if we input more changes, then there will be another version.
The Chair: I think if it were to come by Wednesday, assuming there was a need for revisions to be made to typos and those sorts of things, we could fix them.
Senator Wallin: I think we all received different chunks of it. I only got this stuff today.
The Chair: That is the stuff that you should go with, and it looks like this. What is it called?
Ms. Anwar: It just says that it was distributed on December 7.
The Chair: Let us work from it, if we could, please.
Senator Banks: I want to be sure. Where it says that it was distributed December 7, chapters 1, 2 and 3 are the same as we received last week.
Ms. Anwar: Yes. There might be changes to the formatting, so the pagination might be slightly different, but I do not think so.
Senator Banks: But not words, not substance?
Ms. Anwar: Nothing was changed in that regard.
Senator Banks: We have seen chapters 1, 2 and 3, even though they were distributed today along with this. We have not seen chapters 4, 5 and 6, which we received today.
Ms. Anwar: That is new.
The Chair: We have seen them and been through them.
Senator Banks: Previously.
Senator Wallin: In the original report.
The Chair: Right.
Senator Wallin: There are changes in chapters 1, 2 and 3 as well, are there not?
Ms. Anwar: Not since Wednesday and Thursday.
Senator Manning: The changes we made are incorporated in the ones we received; is that correct?
The Chair: Right.
Senator Day: That is correct.
Senator Wallin: I think where we were was that we had chapter 6 read aloud to us.
The Chair: Yes.
Senator Wallin: I am trying to figure out where we are starting.
The Chair: I want to see if anyone has comments on chapters 1, 2 and 3 and the introduction.
Senator Banks: Mr. Chair, this is a public meeting now. Do we want to move in camera as we usually do in respect of considering the content of a report?
The Chair: We would, but we are having an initial discussion to get organized. I expect that whoever wishes to make that motion will do so.
Senator Banks: Are we at the point now where we would like to go in camera? I think we are, so I will propose the motion and then you can see whether other committee members agree with it.
Pursuant to rule 92, I move that we now proceed in camera —
The Chair: And that people turn off their cell phones, please.
Senator Banks: — for the consideration of the draft report, that staff be permitted to remain in the room, and that all electronic devices be turned off, except the clerk's.
Senator Lang: Mr. Chair, could I speak to the motion?
Senator Banks: Wait until I finish it, please.
The motion also provides that the committee allow the proceedings of the in camera portion of the meeting to be transcribed and kept in the clerk's office, to be destroyed at the end of this parliamentary session.
Senator Lang: Mr. Chair, I am not clear — and I do not know if other members are clear — on chapters 1, 2 and 3. You went over it quickly. I am assuming that we will go through chapters 1, 2 and 3 in camera to see what changes have taken place. Normally we would do a rewrite; is that correct?
The Chair: It is correct to the extent that you have had those chapters for a period of time and have had an opportunity to review them, whereas with respect to the others, you have not.
Senator Wallin: I think some of the chapters came in bits and pieces. They were not all handed out here. Some of them came via email, so you may not have seen them all. They seem to be works in progress.
Mr. Chair, are you saying that anything we received 10 days ago is still the same?
Ms. Anwar: Last Wednesday. On Wednesday, hard copies of the introduction to chapter 3 were delivered to all senators' offices, including Senator Lang and Senator Mitchell.
Senator Wallin: That incorporated some changes other than the documents —
Ms. Anwar: That incorporated changes from the previous version we were studying. This morning, chapters 4, 5 and 6 were made available from Translation Bureau. I incorporated them into one document so that we can work from one rather than two.
Senator Wallin: It is just complicated, because I made notes on the original documents that came out.
Ms. Anwar: The pagination should be identical to what you have.
Senator Wallin: What about the content?
Ms. Anwar: The content was not touched. In the interests of keeping everyone on the same page, or reasonably close to the same page, it is the same document as the hard copy that was sent out.
Senator Lang: Mr. Chair, I do not mean to belabour this point, but I am assuming that when we start to review the draft report, we will go through chapters 1, 2 and 3 and identify where those changes were made. This has been kind of intermittent. I am assuming that this would be the procedure all of us would want to see; is that correct?
Senator Day: I would like to get on with the report, quite frankly.
The Chair: My assumption was that we would review one chapter at a time and committee members could bring up whatever they wanted to. We have been through this line by line now a couple of times.
Senator Wallin: However, it has changed pretty dramatically.
The Chair: No, it has not, actually.
Senator Lang: Mr. Chair, in deference to the members here, I would ask that we go through it page by page and identify the changes so that we know what those changes are.
Senator Wallin: I agree.
Senator Lang: Time passes us by. I think that all members would want to see those changes to ensure that what was said is being done.
The Chair: You have had five days to look at it.
Senator Lang: I have had five days, but like you, Mr. Chair, I have been doing a lot of other things as well. In deference to committee members, we should have the opportunity to go through it at the stage when we go through it in camera.
Senator Wallin: I think that is best. When I left on Wednesday for travel, I did not have hard copies, so I was working from those other documents. I hope they are exactly the same.
I think it is best if we go through it. We now have a draft that is probably where we should have started, and we should just go through it.
Senator Banks: I move that when we get to considering it, that we go through each chapter page by page and ask members for comments on each page.
Senator Lang: Agreed.
The Chair: Those in favour?
Senator Day: No, no. There is already another motion on the floor.
Senator Banks: Right. Mine, in fact.
Senator Wallin: Add it to yours.
Senator Day: Just save it, Senator Banks.
Senator Banks: You are right.
The Chair: All those in favour of the first motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried.
(The committee continued in camera.)