Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Official Languages
Issue 1 - Evidence - Meeting of February 23, 2009
OTTAWA, Monday, February 23, 2009
The Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages met this day at 5:35 p.m., pursuant to rule 88 of the Rules of the Senate to hold an organization meeting.
[Translation]
Éric Jacques, Committee Clerk: Honourable senators, I see that we have a quorum, and I call the meeting to order. Welcome to this meeting of the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages. As committee clerk, it is my duty to oversee the election of a chair. I am ready to entertain a motion in this regard.
Senator Comeau: I move that the Honourable Senator Chaput do take the chair of this committee. I think that considering the fine work she has done in the past, we can expect her to do an equally fine job as chair.
Senator Goldstein: If you need someone to second the motion, I would be pleased to do so.
Mr. Jacques: It is moved by the Honourable Senator Comeau that the Honourable Senator Chaput do take the chair of this committee. Do you agree, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
Mr. Jacques: I would like to ask the Honourable Senator Chaput to take the chair.
(Senator Chaput takes the chair.)
The Chair: Honourable Senators, thank you for the confidence you have displayed in me, and I assure you that you can count on my complete cooperation.
We will now deal with the various items on the agenda. For each item, we need someone to move the motion and a seconder.
The second point on the agenda is the election of a deputy chair.
Senator Losier-Cool: Madam Chair, congratulations on being elected chair of the committee. I am pleased to move that the Honourable Senator Andrée Champagne be deputy chair of this committee.
The Chair: Is there a seconder?
Senator Tardif: I second the motion.
The Chair: It is moved by the Honourable Senator Losier-Cool that the Honourable Senator Champagne be deputy chair of this committee. Does the motion carry?
Hon. Senators: Yes.
Senator Champagne: Thank you all for your trust in me. I will try to do the best possible job. Thank you for your trust in me.
The Chair: The third point has to do with the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure.
It is moved by the Honourable Senator Tardif that the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be composed of the chair, the deputy chair, and one other member of the committee, to be designated after the usual consultation; and that the subcommittee be empowered to make decisions on behalf of the committee with respect to its agenda, to invite witnesses, and to schedule hearings.
Senator Mockler: I second the motion.
The Chair: Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: For your information, I would like to mention that the third member of the subcommittee might be Senator Losier-Cool. The deputy chair and I believe that it is a good idea to have people representing different provinces; in this way, we have representatives of New Brunswick, Quebec and Manitoba. Are you in agreement?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Item 4, printing of the committee's proceedings.
It is moved by the Honourable Senator Champagne that the committee prints its proceedings and that the chair be authorized to set the number to meet demand.
Honourable Senator Goldstein has seconded the motion. Does the motion carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Number 5, Authorization to hold meetings and to print evidence when quorum is not present.
It is moved by the Honourable Senator Mockler, that, pursuant to rule 89, the chair be authorized to hold meetings, to receive and authorize the printing of the evidence when a quorum is not present, provided that a member of the committee from both the government and the opposition be present.
Senator Losier-Cool: I second the motion.
The Chair: Does the motion carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Number 6, Financial report.
It is moved by the Honorable Senator Losier-Cool that the committee adopt the draft first report, prepared in accordance with rule 104(2). Before I ask for a seconder, I believe that you have a copy of this report, which the clerk has distributed. Did you all receive it?
Hon. Senators: Yes.
The Chair: The motion has been moved by Senator Losier-Cool. Is there a senator to second the motion?
Senator Comeau: Do we need a seconder for these motions? I think that in general, we do not need one. It is not necessary to have someone to second these kinds of things, is that not so?
The Chair: If it is not necessary, it is not necessary; so that is fine. I am asking for a seconder because of what I have seen done in other committees, but if the committee wishes, we can drop this procedure.
Senator Comeau: I move that we stick with what is allowed, that we just have someone move the motion.
The Chair: Fine, thank you. We have someone to move adoption of the draft first report; you have had a chance to look at it. Are you all in favor of this first report?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Number 7, research staff.
It is moved by the Honorable Senator Fortin-Duplessis — do you prefer to be referred to as ``sénateur'' or ``sénatrice''?
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: Sénatrice.
The Chair: It is moved by the Honorable Senator Fortin-Duplessis that the Committee ask the Library of Parliament to assign analysts to the Committee; that the chair be authorized to seek authority from the Senate to engage the services of such counsel and technical, clerical and other personnel as may be necessary for the purpose of the Committee's examination and consideration of such bills, subject matters of bills, and estimates as are referred to it; that the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be authorized to retain the services of such experts as may be required by the work of the Committee; and that the chair, on behalf of the Committee, direct the research staff in the preparation of studies, analyses, summaries, and draft reports.
Agreed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Number 8, Authority to commit funds and certify accounts.
It is moved by the Honorable Senator Tardif, that, pursuant to section 7, chapter 3:06 of the Senate Administrative Rules, authority to commit funds be conferred individually on the chair, the deputy chair, and the clerk of the committee; that, pursuant to section 8, chapter 3:06 of the Senate Administrative Rules, authority for certifying accounts payable by the Committee be conferred individually on the chair, the deputy chair, and the clerk of the committee; and that, notwithstanding the foregoing, in cases related to consultants and personnel services, the authority to commit funds and certify accounts be conferred jointly on the chair and deputy chair.
Does this meet with your approval?
Hon. Senators: Yes.
The Chair: Any questions?
Senator Comeau: Have any changes been made to this motion recently? I have the impression that it is not the usual motion.
Mr. Jacques: Indeed, it has been changed. The reason is that in English, these motions quote the Financial Administration Act, but since the Senate is not subject to that act, we merely removed the reference. However, other than that, the motion is the usual one.
Senator Comeau: I did think that there was a difference. Thank you.
Senator Goldstein: With regard to the motion that provides for hearings to be held despite a lack of quorum as long as one committee member from the government and one from the opposition are present, I know that it is a rule in the other place, but does this rule apply here as well?
Mr. Jacques: Yes.
Senator Comeau: If you do not mind, Madam Chair, this is a routine motion that nearly all the committees adopt to avoid the possibility of having witnesses travel for nothing. As you know, sometimes our witnesses come from very far away, and it would be very expensive and non-productive to have to postpone their appearance before the committee in the event of unusual circumstances or the inability to ensure quorum.
The Chair: Basically, this practice is followed in unusual circumstances?
Senator Comeau: Generally speaking, yes.
Senator Goldstein: It has never happened here, but the possibility of paralyzing a committee permanently does exist. If one of the two parties decides not to attend a meeting for whatever reason, that could result in the committee becoming paralyzed. Please note that this has never happened, and I hope that it will never will, but I believe that this motion cannot operate unless the circumstances are special. I wonder. Perhaps this is not the right time to discuss it, but I wonder if we should not look at this issue.
Senator Losier-Cool: Is this rule 89?
Senator Comeau: I think that it is motion number 5. The way I understand the motion, it would apply only if there was no quorum; if we had a quorum without having members from both sides, such a situation would not keep the committee from proceeding. The motion can apply only in cases where there is no quorum.
For example, if the Conservatives were to decide to boycott a committee meeting, the Liberals could attend in sufficient numbers to ensure a quorum and the committee could proceed. The committee could not be paralyzed.
Senator Goldstein: On the other hand, if the Conservatives took part in a meeting and the Liberals decided not to attend, would that not lead to the committee being paralyzed?
Senator Comeau: No, this motion — motion number five — applies only if there is no quorum.
The Chair: Senator Losier-Cool asked a question about rule 89. Would you like me to read it out?
Senator Losier-Cool: Please.
The Chair:
A quorum is required whenever a vote, resolution or other decision is taken by a select committee, but any such committee, by resolution thereof, may authorize the chairman to hold meetings to receive and authorize the printing of evidence when a quorum is not present.
That is rule 89 of the Rules of the Senate.
Senator Goldstein: So motion number 5 is an addition to the rules.
The Chair: Yes, you are right.
Senator Comeau: It is an enhancement.
Senator Goldstein: I see. I won't insist on the point.
The Chair: Now we shall return to motion 8, which was seconded by Senator Tardif. Are you in favour of the motion?
Hon. Senators: Yes.
The Chair: Number 9, Travel.
It is moved by the Honourable Senator Jaffer that the committee empower the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure to designate, as required, one or more members of the committee and/or such staff as may be necessary to travel on assignment on behalf of the committee.
Agreed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Number 10, Designation of members travelling on committee business.
It is moved by the honourable Senator Mockler, that the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be authorized to:
(1) determine whether any member of the committee is on ``official business'' for the purposes of paragraph 8(3)(a) of the Senators' Attendance Policy, published in the Journals of the Senate on Wednesday, June 3, 1998; and
(2) consider any member of the committee to be on ``official business'' if that member is: (a) attending an event or meeting related to the work of the committee; or (b) making a presentation related to the work of the committee; and that the subcommittee report at the earliest opportunity any decisions taken with respect to the designation of members of the committee travelling on committee business.
Agreed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Number 11, Travelling and living expenses of witnesses.
It is moved by the Honourable Senator Comeau that, pursuant to the Senate guidelines for witness expenses, the committee may reimburse reasonable travelling and living expenses for one witness from any one organization and payment will take place upon application, but that the chair be authorized to approve expenses for a second witness should there be exceptional circumstances.
All in agreement?
Hon. Senators: Yes.
The Chair: Item number 12, Electronic media coverage of public meetings.
It is moved by the Honourable Senator Tardif, that the chair be authorized to seek permission from the Senate to permit coverage by electronic media of the committee's public proceedings with the least possible disruption of its hearings; and that the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be empowered to allow such coverage at its discretion.
All in agreement?
Hon. Senators: Yes.
The Chair: As for item number 13, Time slot for regular meetings, our meeting day is on Monday between 4 and 7 p.m.. I have received requests asking that we sit between 4 and 6 p.m. Generally, a committee meeting should not last more than two hours.
Senator Tardif: Madam Chair, I will not be able to make it to our meetings before 5 p.m. I believed that we would stick to the same schedule as last year.
Senator Losier-Cool: Last year we met at 5 p.m.
Senator Champagne: We lost one of our colleagues who sat on the committee last year because of a problem with his plane schedule. If we were to begin our meetings at 4 p.m., then that would not give us enough time to make it to the committee. If, as you suggest, meetings should not last more than two hours, I think it would accommodate a number of us if we could begin at 5 p.m. rather than 4 p.m.
Senator Goldstein: That would create a problem for two members, Senator Jaffer and myself, because both of us sit on the Standing Senate Committee on Human Rights, which also meets on Monday evenings. I hope that this committee will be able to begin its meetings at 7 p.m., which would allow us to attend both committees. Would 4:30 p.m. be suitable to Senator Tardif?
Senator Tardif: No. I have meetings that are systematically planned on Mondays.
Senator Goldstein: Will meetings be limited to two hours?
The Chair: Our time slot is usually up until 7 p.m. We are trying to limit ourselves to two-hour meetings. Things get more difficult when we exceed two hours.
Senator Goldstein: We might discuss this further. Could we reschedule the meetings to Tuesday mornings?
Senator Tardif: The request was made. Officials from the government leaders' office considered the issue. It turned out to be so complicated, three or four committees had to be moved around, that it became almost impossible.
Senator Comeau: I suggest that the chair, in consultation with the persons responsible, consider all possibilities and make a recommendation at the next meeting. You might be able to obtain further information regarding the sitting hours of the human rights committee.
Senator Goldstein: I will try to convince Senator Andreychuk to hold the meetings at 7 p.m.
Senator Losier-Cool: If we held our meetings between 5 and 7 p.m., would that be suitable?
The Chair: We could, but the human rights committee gets underway at 7 p.m., is that not so?
Senator Goldstein: Yes.
The Chair: There is not much flexibility at this point in time.
Senator Comeau: That is why I would leave this up to you.
The Chair: Yes, but as for working miracles...
Senator Losier-Cool: One can always ask the whips.
Senator Goldstein: Although we can ask the whips to meet, would 4:45 p.m. be suitable?
Senator Tardif: I can also decide to arrive late, but it is never pleasant to interrupt witnesses. Come to a decision and do not concern yourselves with my situation.
Senator Goldstein: Senator Comean has made the best suggestion.
The Chair: In any case, our time slot is from 4 p.m. to 7 p.m., but could we not try to meet between 5 p.m. and 6:30 p.m. next Monday? Does everyone agree?
Hon. Senators: Yes.
The Chair: Other business. Are there any other questions?
Senator Champagne: Normally, our assistants can remain in the room. Might I move a motion to that effect?
The Chair: Yes, do, for the duration of the session, that the assistants can remain in the room when we go in camera. That way we will not have to move the same motion twice. Is everyone in agreement?
Hon. Senators: Very well.
The Chair: Excellent.
(The committee continued in camera.)