Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Official Languages
Issue 12 - Evidence - Meeting of November 2, 2009
OTTAWA, Monday, November 2, 2009
The Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages met this day at 4:30 p.m. to study the application of the Official Languages Act and the regulations and directives made under it, within those institutions subject to the act. On today's agenda are: Part VII of the Official Languages Act and other issues.
Senator Andrée Champagne (Deputy Chair) in the chair.
[Translation]
The Deputy Chair: I see that we have quorum. Therefore, I declare the meeting in session.
I welcome you to the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages. I am Andrée Champagne. I am a senator from Quebec and the deputy chair of this committee.
Before introducing today's witnesses, Madam Minister, I would like to introduce the committee members who are here today.
To my right is Senator Tardif, from Alberta. Next to her is Senator Losier-Cool from New Brunswick. To my left is Senator Nolin from Quebec, and Senator Seidman and Senator Brazeau, also from Quebec.
Our committee is currently studying the implementation of Part VII of the Official Languages Act, with particular emphasis on measures taken by federal organizations to that effect. Today we will be hearing from representatives of two departments to discuss their respective organizations' achievements and initiatives with respect to Part VII.
During the first part of the meeting, we will be hearing from the Honourable Lynne Yelich, Minister of State for Western Economic Diversification. With her is Deputy Minister Daniel Watson.
[English]
Minister Yelich, thank you for accepting the committee's invitation to appear this afternoon. I understand that you will have to leave us in 45 minutes and that Mr. Watson and Ms. Kapitany will stay with us until the end of the meeting. Please proceed with your remarks, minister.
[Translation]
Hon. Lynne Yelich, P.C., M.P., Minister of State for Western Economic Diversification: Madam Chair, it is an honour for me to appear before the committee today. Thank you.
[English]
I am accompanied by my representatives, Daniel Watson, Deputy Minister; and Marilyn Kapitany, Assistant Deputy Minister, who will be able to answer questions after I leave today. I apologize that I am not speaking in our second official language but I do try. Certainly, I am honoured to be here as a witness today.
There is no question that the passage of the Official Languages Act marked a significant turning point in Canada's development as a nation. In the 40 years since its passage, the act has strengthened our identity and expanded access to services in French. As the federal department responsible for promoting the development and diversification of Western Canada's economy, Western Economic Diversification Canada, WD, recognizes how the Roadmap for Canada's Linguistic Duality and Part VII — Bill S-3 — are pivotal to our ability to fulfil our mandate.
Canada's official languages minority communities make a substantial contribution to our nation's economic strength. Supporting the development of these communities has become an important means for WD to achieve its goal of a more competitive and diverse regional economy. Although French is the mother tongue of about 2 per cent of the West's population, 7 per cent has knowledge of both official languages. The importance of linguistic duality surpasses the numbers. The roots of many francophone communities throughout Western Canada are deep and formative. The rich history of francophone communities in the West represents a significant economic asset for the region and an additional dimension to the Western Canadian presence on the global stage. My department is determined to cultivate these assets.
WD's 2008-11 Action Plan for Implementation of Section 41 of the Official Languages Act is the means by which we ensure that the act is well entrenched in WD's internal workings and external dealings. The four Francophone Economic Development Organizations, FEDOs, who are members of WD's Western Canada Business Service Network, are key players in this regard, and we have been pleased to support their work. WD's staff, in particular the department's official languages team, work closely with them to meet the needs of Western Canada's official languages minority communities. WD provides FEDOs with an annual budget of almost $2.2 million, which they use to provide a wide range of business and community economic development services.
For example, le Conseil de développement économique des municipalités bilingues du Manitoba plays a central role in ensuring that francophone entrepreneurs have access to the capital, training, and information they need to start or grow their small businesses. On the international front, they have also sponsored missions to Europe and organized visits for French and Belgian business owners interested in investment opportunities in Manitoba. In Saskatchewan, le Conseil de la coopération de la Saskatchewan has been very active in the francophone business community over the past five years. As a result of their assistance, 60 businesses in Saskatchewan were created, maintained or expanded; and 152 jobs were created, maintained or improved.
In Alberta, le Conseil de développement économique de l'Alberta is helping to build relationships between the province's entrepreneurs and their counterparts in Quebec. For example, they have connected a Quebec-based company with clients interested in projects related to Alberta's francophone heritage. The company has now obtained a number of contracts, including publishing books on the western Metis and Leo Piquette, a former MLA for Athabasca-Lac La Biche and an ardent defender of the French language in Alberta.
On the West Coast, la Société de développement économique de la Colombie-Britannique has created a series of workshops to help francophone businesses become suppliers of goods and services to the 2010 Olympic Games in Vancouver. More than 500 people have attended the workshops, which have been offered in Western Canada, as well as Quebec, New Brunswick and Ontario.
I am pleased to tell you our department has recently approved an investment of $840,000 for the Conseil de développement économique des municipalités bilingues du Manitoba, CDEM. This new funding aligns with the Government of Canada's Roadmap for Canada's Linguistic Duality and is being provided under the economic development initiative. This investment will support youth, rural diversification, and business development activities in 17 bilingual municipalities in Manitoba. More specifically, this new funding will allow CDEM to invest in youth entrepreneurship and attract youth to return to rural communities when they have graduated from post-secondary institutions. Several municipalities will renew their community plans and develop initiatives that have an emphasis on green initiatives and technology adoption in communities.
As well, CDEM will be able to support new Canadians starting businesses with much-needed advisory support for a longer period of time, so that these new entrepreneurs can be successful in Canada. There is much more that this funding will allow CDEM to pursue. Clearly, these are important outcomes, which will encourage sustainable growth in Manitoba's francophone communities.
These are just a few of the many examples that support the findings of a recent impact study, which concluded that francophone economic development organizations, FEDOs, play an important, direct support role in the economic planning of francophone communities and in the implementation of community projects.
The focus groups undertaken as part of that study also revealed an unexpected positive effect of the WD program. Western towns increasingly perceive the presence of a local francophone community as a major economic asset. Not only do they recognize how important economic development is in sustaining francophone communities, they also recognize the francophone community's importance to tourism and appreciate how its linguistic and cultural heritage creates bridges with Quebec, France and other French-speaking countries throughout the world.
Across the country, the Government of Canada is committed to both official languages. This is embodied in the Roadmap for Canada's Linguistic Duality a five-year $1.1-billion investment that focuses on linguistic duality and support for official language minority communities. Economic development is a priority within the roadmap.
Through the roadmap's Economic Development Initiative, this spring, WD funded new equipment for the Faculty of Science and the multi-media laboratories to enable the Collège universitaire de Saint-Boniface to build a highly- skilled bilingual workforce with the aim of creating a more diversified economy.
In the coming year, our major Economic Development Initiative commitment will be support for Place de la Francophonie, a pavilion on Vancouver's popular Granville Island that will showcase the agri-food and tourism attractions of Canada's francophone and Acadian communities during the Olympic Games.
With 80 countries participating in the Olympics, 30 of them members of the Organisation internationale de la Francophonie, the project has the potential to bring major economic benefits to Western Canada's official languages minority communities.
Initiatives such as these have contributed to the high ratings that WD has received from the Commissioner for Official Languages, recognizing our work in developing official languages minority communities and promoting linguistic duality. We are proud of that assessment.
Internally, we will continue our efforts to raise and maintain employee awareness of the department's obligations under the Official Languages Act, as well as the importance of Western official languages minority communities. We will also continue to consult on a regular basis with other government departments to share expertise and best practices.
We recognize, as well, that the ability to converse in both official languages is an important component of internal capacity and public service renewal. Finding employees with the requisite language skills continues to be a challenge in Western Canada. As a result, WD has recently implemented a more intensive and individualized approach that focuses on existing employees who have demonstrated a clear commitment to language training. This will ensure the department continues to have the people, knowledge and skills to effectively fulfill its mandate and contribute to building on the great and historic heritage of Western Canada's francophone communities.
Externally, WD will continue to maintain close working relationships with FEDOs and other stakeholders, such as post-secondary institutions and the provinces. These relationships form the foundation of our department's ongoing efforts to strengthen and celebrate the unique heritage of western francophone communities, and promote the development and diversification of Western Canada's economy.
WD values the integral role of francophone communities have played in strengthening the cultural and economic fabric of Western Canada. By supporting these communities, we are honouring the past and positioning the West for the future.
I would be pleased to respond to your questions.
[Translation]
The Deputy Chair: Thank you very much, Madam Minister.
[English]
I would also like to introduce Senator Pépin from Quebec who has joined us.
[Translation]
Senator Tardif: I would like to welcome you, Madam Minister, and those with you. As a westerner, I am very happy to see that Western Economic Diversification Canada is probably one of the only federal departments with an official at the deputy minister level in Western Canada, specifically in Edmonton. This is a unique opportunity to be an ambassador for the French language in the West, in communities, and that carries great responsibilities.
I am pleased to see that you have an action plan for section 41 and for addressing issues related to raising awareness, consultation and communication to achieve the objectives set out in section 41.
When conducting consultations, do you take into account the impact of your decisions on official language minority communities?
[English]
Ms. Yelich: I am pleased you asked that question because there is a place in our due diligence reports where we take into consideration the impact of our projects and programs on francophone communities. There is an official language lens for the official language minority communities that we represent.
[Translation]
Senator Tardif: How do you define "positive measures"?
[English]
Ms. Yelich: Our mandate is to enhance the vitality of our official languages minority communities through the development and diversification of our projects — through our communications, our outreach programs and our investments in FEDOs. My mandate is economic diversification and development. We are investing in FEDOs to help us ensure that we have the official language minority communities represented at our level.
Senator Tardif: Does your lens focus on the francophone regional development offices in each of the provinces?
Ms. Yelich: Yes, we rely on them to bring their concerns to us. That is where we have our impact to reach them strategically.
[Translation]
Daniel Watson, Deputy Minister, Western Economic Diversification Canada: That aspect is very important, of course. But the minister also alluded to the fact that every time we conduct an analysis for each one of our projects, we have to make sure that we have considered the impact on western official language minority communities.
So, for every one of the projects in the Economic Action Plan, we had to consider whether there would be a positive impact on francophone communities in the west. In a western Canadian context, we are talking about francophone communities of course.
Senator Tardif: Do you also take into account equality of services, not just whether there will be an impact? Would you say that, as a result of these decisions, francophone citizens — whether they are in Alberta or Saskatchewan — will receive the same level of service?
[English]
Ms. Yelich: Yes, there is absolutely no question that they can be served in either official language.
Senator Tardif: Do they have equal access to all the programs and the services that are being offered?
Ms. Yelich: Yes, through our departments and through our offices, yes.
Senator Nolin: Good afternoon, minister. Thank you for accepting our invitation.
First, following up on this question of equitable participation, the Commissioner of Official Languages is giving you the highest mark, which is exemplary. I hope you are not shy of that mark.
I am more interested in understanding how it works in the machinery of government to achieve those goals.
Let us take one of the measurements from 2006-07 that the commissioner is using on the community development promotion of linguistic duality from good to exemplary. Are you doing that on your own, with your officials, or does the government push you or attempt to have you develop and promote from inside the machinery of government to achieve those goals?
Ms. Yelich: We are working hard to serve our francophone communities well, but the Roadmap of Canada's Linguistic Duality really brought this forward. It is a plan to serve these communities and to make strategic investments tailored to the community needs. It is a plan to foster the development of francophone communities, the innovators and the entrepreneurs. The planning has definitely been the initiative that helps us to continue to drive to gain that mark. But there is a very strong will, especially in the West, where we have some strong French communities in Manitoba. We all work hard. It is more important than anything this year, with the 2010 Vancouver games, that we showcase our bilingual country. We are working hard on doing that.
I initially hoped that the FEDOs would ensure that we receive good feedback — especially since we are hosting the 2010 Olympic Games — that our country is bilingual, which is something to be very proud of. I am proud of that. I have a background in Slavic. In those countries, they are proud when their people can speak other languages. I have a lot of excitement and enthusiasm, especially with 2010. It has definitely heightened the excitement about 2010. Our francophone communities have much to contribute. It works really well. We want to have bigger trading partners and to have that in our mandate for trade and investment in our other official language will help our country. It is a contribution, yes.
[Translation]
Senator Nolin: Perhaps Mr. Watson can add to Ms. Yelich's response?
Mr. Watson: As a matter of fact, the Olympic Games are an excellent example of how various federal government departments are working together. We are working on a number of projects with Canadian Heritage and other departments.
I would add that in the context of federal councils, which bring together all federal departments from a given region, one of the big projects people are working on is improving services in French. As the Deputy Minister of Western Economic Diversification Canada, I have four assistant deputy ministers, each of whom chairs one of these federal councils. This is one of the top priorities in all four cases. Everyone in government is working on this.
Senator Nolin: If it is okay with you, Madam Minister, I will address your deputy minister.
Mr. Watson, in 2005, the act was amended to add the proactive element in Part VII, which has made a big difference. Our committee spent a lot of time considering that amendment. We are all coming from the same well- intentioned place, and we are all focused on what we need to do now to implement this, to be proactive. That is why I am so interested in the machinery inside government.
I would like to know how the Privy Council Office is working with you. Is anyone asking you whether they can help and if so, how? What are your plans for next year? That is what I want to know. Do such measures exist within the federal government, within your department — since the Commissioner of Official Languages rated you as exemplary? Is this your only initiative or is there someone in the Privy Council Office or elsewhere in the federal government who told you, "These are the outcomes we want to see"?
Mr. Watson: The Commissioner of Official Languages' report is a very important tool that tells us what we need to do to improve on what we have already done every year.
It is also a real motivator to people in government because it reminds people about what they have to accomplish and that they will have to produce public reports.
People in our department have always — or for a long time, at any rate — worked with francophone communities in the west. We have always kept open lines of communication with them, and they have always been major partners. They were aware of what we were doing and even, sometimes, of what we were not doing. There was no avoiding those discussions.
In addition to the relationships we built with these people, and in addition to the funding we were providing to people who had very good ideas about diversification, we had to keep the conversation going. Now the annual report is making a big difference.
Yes, there is machinery within government that enables us to compare one department's practices to those of another. We also get help from central agencies, such as the Treasury Board Secretariat and the Privy Council Office, which sometimes advises us, and sometimes reminds us about important elements and tells us when it is time to write the reports. They give us enough advance notice so that if anyone has to redouble their efforts at any point during the year, they can do so well before the deadline.
Right. So there is a whole series of things, but we have a calendar indicating that we have several reports written for the Public Service Commission, the Commissioner of Official Languages, the Privacy Commissioner and others. That is an integral part of our work now.
Senator Nolin: Your critical path for the year.
Mr. Watson: Absolutely, yes.
Senator Nolin: Thank you very much.
[English]
Senator Seidman: Thank you for being with us today. I too was going to congratulate you when I saw that according to the Commissioner of Official Languages, WD's performance with regard to implementation of Part VII is exemplary.
You say that across the country, the Government of Canada's unwavering commitment to both official languages is embodied in the five year, $1.1-billion investment, the Roadmap for Canada's Linguistic Duality, which focuses on linguistic duality and support for official language minority communities.
You have provided us with the details of some of your plans for 2008 to 2013. Are there obstacles, be they internal or external that make it difficult for you to comply, and are there aspects that could be improved or things that could be more helpful to ensure your goals?
Ms. Yelich: We are managing very well with the tools that we have. I would not say there are any obstacles, unless my deputy has something he is hiding from me.
Mr. Watson: No, madam.
Ms. Yelich: Thank you for the recognition. I think it is important. When we had our first language commissioner, I spoke to him about some of my concerns. We do have to work hard to make sure that the West is recognized as working towards being officially bilingual, because I know we do work hard out there to do what we can. Our department has taken on the initiative through the road map, and that shows we are serious and we will make some very good investments. It is great to have the minority official languages communities as part of our Western diversification plan.
[Translation]
Senator Pépin: This past year, the Supreme Court rendered a decision in Desrochers to the effect that the government is required to take the necessary steps to ensure that anglophones and francophones contribute equally to the definition and delivery of services. Has your department taken specific measures to take the Supreme Court of Canada's decision into account?
[English]
Ms. Yelich: The FEDOs are being used as best practices.
[Translation]
Mr. Watson: If I remember the Supreme Court case correctly, it involved an organization that did not offer services in French. We have an organization in every Western Canadian province that provides the same types of services offered in English and targets those services according to the needs of every francophone community in every one of those provinces. I think that is why it was given as an example.
Senator Pépin: If you target the needs of each francophone community, your ability to deliver what they need should improve. Are services more accessible now than before?
Mr. Watson: Yes, in a way, it is easier in terms of language because people can speak the language of their choice.
Senator Pépin: With respect to services.
Mr. Watson: With respect to the kind of help they need because for various reasons, francophone communities in Saskatchewan, Manitoba and British Columbia sometimes do not have the same needs as their anglophone neighbours. The idea is to have an organization that understands those needs, is connected to the community and can fulfill specific needs so that people do not have to go through an intermediary who does not always understand or could misinterpret. These kinds of situations could have a negative impact on the development of francophone communities in Western Canada.
Senator Pépin: You said that you have a good relationship with various federal departments, but how is your relationship with the provincial governments when it comes to francophones?
[English]
Ms. Yelich: When it comes to provincial governments, I think I have a good example right here beside me. I am sure that Ms. Kapitany can speak for all the provinces. I would like you to hear first hand of our people on the ground. I can say very adamantly that we have good relationships with the provinces.
[Translation]
Marilyn Kapitany, Assistant Deputy Minister, Ottawa Liaison Office, Western Economic Diversification Canada: I am more familiar with the province of Manitoba, but I think the situation is similar with my western partners.
We have economic partnerships and agreements with the provinces and we are working together. For example, the minister mentioned the project with the Conseil de développement économique des municipalités bilingues du Manitoba. We have been working on CDEM projects with the Province of Manitoba for some time now, not just this past year.
We are also working with the Agence nationale et internationale du Manitoba — ANIM — on project funds and organization funds like Centrallia and Futurallia.
Futurallia is an international organization that promotes the development of business agreements between countries and between business people in a given country. Futurallia was held in Quebec in 2008 and was hugely successful. A group of Manitobans connected with Futurallia organizers and put together Centrallia, a kind of mini-Futurallia. We made it happen in partnership with our colleagues in the provincial government, the Winnipeg Chamber of Commerce and ANIM.
Senator Pépin: Do you have similar programs for francophones in other provinces?
Ms. Kapitany: Mainly with the CDEM program, francophone economic development organizations. Centrallia is just in Manitoba at the moment.
Senator Pépin: Yes, but are other programs available to francophones in other provinces?
Ms. Kapitany: I am not as familiar with projects in other provinces, but our work leverages both federal and provincial funds.
Senator Pépin: Significant funds will be available, as the minister said, and it is important to ensure that francophones in all provinces, who probably have somewhat different needs, have access.
Ms. Kapitany: Yes.
Senator Losier-Cool: I, too, would like to welcome you.
[English]
Ms. Yelich: I was going to say I will take a question as well.
Senator Losier-Cool: I promise you I will be very precise.
[Translation]
If you cannot provide a specific response today, perhaps you can forward it to the committee later.
Can you tell us what percentage of requests for Western Economic Diversification's programs come from francophones? It would be interesting to know whether francophones are asking for more programs.
[English]
Ms. Yelich: We will provide you with what you wish, but we are meeting the needs. I think we are more actively going out and finding the communities to come to us for projects that they would like to advance, especially in economic development. It is really important right now, with our games in British Columbia, as the needs escalate.
There are many spinoffs from other programs that the federal government is involved in. There are French colleges both in Alberta and Saskatchewan, and you talk about that. There are areas where we may be working with commercialization or trade, so we are meeting the needs. It may not be in dollars and percentages. We are always open to any of your suggestions. We are doing what we can to make sure the needs of the official language minority communities are being met. They are bringing us many ideas.
Senator Losier-Cool: I know you are. You are telling me that you go to the community, and it is not an answer to a demand of a certain program.
Ms. Yelich: Francophone development is within my mandate. My mandate is commercialization, technology and trade. It is where the French community can come to us and access ways of expanding their economy through us. I would be safe in saying, yes; I believe we are meeting their needs.
[Translation]
Senator Losier-Cool: In your presentation, you used the word "impact." There have been environmental impact studies for things like construction and renovation and work on federal government sites. Might the concept of linguistic impact apply to your programs? How can things have a linguistic impact and become a so-called "positive measure"?
[English]
Ms. Yelich: Probably the best measure of our linguistic impact is the work we do in trade within the country with French communities. I mentioned Western trade with Quebec in my opening remarks. We also have international trade with France and other French-speaking countries. Yes, I think we will be able to measure the impact.
I should leave now. I will have Ms. Janet King sit in and answer your questions. I want you to know that we earned that report card.
The Deputy Chair: Madam Minister, we thank you very much for being here today and for allowing your officials to stay with us a little longer.
Ms. Yelich: Merci beaucoup.
[Translation]
The Deputy Chair: Congratulations once again and thank you.
[English]
Ms. Yelich: I may add that the commissioner sent me home with a book after I met with you. He said it is easy to speak French.
[Translation]
The Deputy Chair: Mr. Deputy Minister, perhaps you can introduce the person now joining us.
Mr. Watson: This is Janet King, Assistant Deputy Minister in our Ottawa Liaison Office. WD's headquarters, as Senator Tardif pointed out, is in Edmonton, not here in Ottawa.
The Deputy Chair: Thank you. We will go around the table once more.
Senator Tardif: As part of the Interdepartmental Partnership with the Official Languages Communities, known as IPOLC, Western Economic Diversification Canada partnered with Canadian Heritage to fund projects supporting the economic development of minority francophone communities. IPOLC was eliminated in April. Will this have an effect on your institution's ability to undertake certain projects in partnership with other departments?
Mr. Watson: No, it will not affect us. Western Economic Diversification Canada has always been a small department compared to those with multi-billion-dollar budgets. We have 500 employees across Western Canada and a few here in Ottawa. We do not have a billion-dollar budget. That means that we have always had to work in partnership with others. That is part of our culture. We have always known that if we do not work with other federal departments, FEDOs, provinces and communities, we will not get anything done. We do not have the money to go it alone. That does not apply only to our work with francophone communities, but to all of our work. Nearly all of the department's projects are undertaken in partnership with others. Working that way is practically in our DNA. Whether we have a formal framework or agreement or not, we will work with others as we have been doing for a very long time, and we will have to keep doing that in the future.
Senator Tardif: IPOLC provided financial leverage. Other departments could access funds to work with us. Now, that budget has been cut. Are other departments still open to collaborating on projects that will benefit francophones in Western Canada?
Mr. Watson: I can only talk about what we are doing in our department. The budget for the Western Economic Diversification program is about $135 million. FEDOs receive $2.2 million in funding. Add to that the other projects we are implementing, and it is well over 2 per cent, which is about equivalent to the francophone population in Western Canada.
I have never seen that as a ceiling. What we need to do is identify needs and meet them. I can only speak on behalf of Western Economic Diversification Canada. You will find that the projects we are working on now are still the same kind of projects as in the past, and they are just as significant.
I would add, getting back to what the minister was saying, that every time we spend part of the $450 million we are delivering as part of the Economic Action Plan, we consider whether we will have an impact on official language minority communities. We even try to use our programs to do more in that context.
Senator Tardif: It sounds to me as though the fact that you are using analyses and impact studies to determine the impact on communities and their needs could be seen as an example of"positive measures."
Mr. Watson: Yes.
Senator Tardif: Is that because of advice you received from, say, Justice or Treasury Board about what you are required to do to comply with your obligations under Part VII of the Act?
Mr. Watson: They may have advised us, but it might have been after we started using this method because we were doing that even before the CALDECH affair. Our work with FEDOs has been going on for a long time. It was even cited as an excellent example during that case. We were advised on how to respond, but we had already taken the necessary measures to be sure that we understood what francophone communities in Western Canada wanted so that we could figure out how to meet those needs. I cannot say that we have identified all of the needs, nor that we have met all of the needs because there is always room for improvement, but we have tried to identify those needs and meet them.
Senator Tardif: I hope that you will share your best practices with other departments and organizations.
Mr. Watson: Absolutely.
The Deputy Chair: Are there any other questions?
Senator Nolin: I would like to pursue Senator Losier-Cool's line of inquiry. The whole idea of studying the impact on a community implies doing it beforehand. In other words, before implementing a policy, we figure out what the impact will be.
My colleague raised the idea that, before implementing a policy, we know that it will affect communities, including francophone communities in the West. Have you considered that kind of approach?
Mr. Watson: Absolutely. There is a big difference between the two fields. In environmental policy, people try to avoid harm. In this context, we try to achieve good. A"positive measure" is all about achieving good, and that is what we are trying to do.
Being small is an advantage. One of the advantages of a medium-sized department like ours is that we have always known that, to succeed, we have to share the burden with other people in other areas where we are working and have agreements with others to understand other people's needs. That is part of our culture.
The work we do with FEDOs has always been a very important marker that reminds us what the needs are. What worked well? What has not yet worked as well as expected? How far do we have yet to go, and what do we need to focus on for the future?
Senator Nolin: What are your thoughts on a proactive approach like that for all departments? Should departments promoting programs systematically be required to carry out a linguistic impact study before implementing a measure or a program? What you have said so far suggests that you would react positively, right?
Mr. Watson: I have been a deputy minister since July. I would never dream of advising those of my counterparts who have been on the job for much longer. However, we have another advantage because our focus is on projects. When we are working on projects, it is very easy to look at the framework for the project and figure out what we can do to help the partners we know well.
If we really know the communities in question, the people of Vonda in Saskatchewan or those of other francophone communities in Western Canada, it is easy to understand their needs, their interests and their dreams. We can change what we are doing, alter things a little to add an element that is important to a particular community. If we do not know what the community wants, if we do not know its partners, their strengths, things are much harder. But we are lucky, partly because the kind of work we do, the kind of funding we offer, which is usually for short-term projects — one, two, three years or something like that — allows us to target our activities so that we can have a big impact on francophone communities in Western Canada.
Senator Nolin: Thank you.
Senator Pépin: Are some groups of francophones harder to reach? Do some of them have a harder time getting on board with these programs, and if so, do you know what is keeping them from getting involved in all of these programs?
Mr. Watson: We have to make a distinction. Our department focuses on economic diversification. Across Canada, on a purely economic basis, leaving aside the language issue, some regions have always had greater difficulty or greater ease working in some economic sectors. That applies even more to francophone communities than to other communities in Canada.
However, we do not provide direct services to francophone communities in Western Canada. We work with partners. For example, my colleague, Marilyn Kapitany, works with the Conseil de développement économique des municipalités bilingues, which is a totally different context from the Conseil de la coopération de la Saskatchewan, which is a francophone organization, not a bilingual one. It is not up to us to decide that a single institution, which we have in Edmonton for all of Western Canada, should understand the reality of each situation. Being able to have organizations created by the people who live in the regions is a very important part of our response to that.
The challenges are different, but if members of the community cannot even dialogue with each other, then of course a government official like me is going to have a harder time. I have to say, though, that it is going well.
Ms. Kapitany: In Manitoba, we use video conferencing to talk to people living in rural regions so they can have access to the same courses as people living in urban communities.
To provide equal access to services across Manitoba, they share equipment and the network so that anyone who wants to can take courses, such as developing a business plan or exporting goods.
Senator Pépin: Accessibility is the same everywhere?
Ms. Kapitany: Maybe not exactly the same, but it is available. That is the goal of these partnerships.
Senator Pépin: The goal is for it to be available to all groups.
Senator Losier-Cool: In her presentation, the minister talked about the challenge of finding employees with the right language skills to deliver the program. Where are those employees? Do they come from across Canada or from francophone countries?
I would like to revisit my question about systematic linguistic impact studies. If we had a systematic framework, we would need qualified employees. That is a challenge. How do you go about making sure that you have employees who are aware of Part VII of the Official Languages Act?
Mr. Watson: Senator Brazeau and I worked in a field that presented similar challenges while I was at Indian and Northern Affairs Canada. Sometimes I worry about francophone communities in Western Canada. We need to think about how many of those people we should get working for the federal government. These people often have very important work to do in their communities as artists, teachers, doctors and lawyers. It is very easy for the federal government to recruit these people. Sometimes I wonder about what kind of balance we should be aiming for between people representing the federal government who understand the importance of these communities and people working directly on things that are not government-related but that are also very important.
When it comes to having skilled employees, we have taken several steps to provide both formal and informal training. We provide formal training for those who want full-time language instruction, as well as for those who want part-time instruction, a few hours a week at the office or in the evenings.
So we have done both. All of the assistant deputy ministers are bilingual. I speak both official languages and it is very important to us to use both official languages in all of our work.
Janet King, Assistant Deputy Minister, Ottawa Liaison Office, Western Economic Diversification Canada: I can add more information about our employees in the department. We have official languages teams throughout the West. There is an official languages coordinator in each region, and that person has a team. Their mandate is to encourage, inform and engage their colleagues and to ensure that each of the regions is aware of its obligations. These people are very enthusiastic about communication, engagement and life in French.
Mr. Watson: I was the assistant deputy minister in Saskatchewan. I mentioned Vonda, Saskatchewan earlier. I was invited to a book launch for a history book about three small Fransaskois towns because I was an assistant deputy minister with the federal government who worked in French. I even asked my son, who was eight or nine at the time, to come with me. He was perfectly bilingual. The fact that I was invited to that little town far away from other cities in Saskatchewan made me realize the impact that we have on those communities. I will never forget that experience.
The Deputy Chair: We are nearly out of time, so I think we should give Senator Tardif the final word.
Senator Tardif: Speaking of impact, do you think you have a role to play in promoting French in the west with organizations like The Alberta Federal Council and The Pacific Federal Council? All of the federal departments get together. You are the Deputy Minister of Western Economic Diversification Canada. Your role is that of an ambassador. Do you think that is your role? If so, how do you play it?
Mr. Watson: Yes, absolutely. Yes, that is our responsibility. Anyone who is a deputy minister or an assistant deputy minister is a member of Canada's public service. Canada's public service is a bilingual institution that works in both official languages wherever it is. Assistant deputy ministers and deputy ministers have a special responsibility. I very rarely give speeches in one language or the other. Today is an exception. Whether I am in Vancouver, Edmonton or somewhere else, I almost always use both languages. I have asked my assistant deputy ministers to become as involved as possible in francophone community events in the west and to demonstrate how French can be used in Western Canada. That may sound a bit strange, but anyone who has been in a mainly anglophone environment knows that it is not always easy to do, and that sometimes, you just have to do it. I think that is one of the responsibilities that comes with the titles we have. During public meetings with the federal councils and the community events we take part in, we have to consider that an important part of our responsibilities.
The Deputy Chair: This part of the meeting is now over. We have enjoyed this time with you, and we have learned a lot, as we did from the minister. We encourage you to keep promoting Part VII of the Official Languages Act. Thank you very much.
Colleagues, we are going to suspend for a few minutes.
(The sitting is suspended.)
(The sitting is resumed.)
The Deputy Chair: Colleagues, for the second part of our meeting, we will be hearing from Claudette Deschênes, Assistant Deputy Minister, Operations, Citizenship and Immigration Canada. As I said at the beginning of the meeting, the committee is currently studying the implementation of Part VII of the Official Languages Act, specifically measures taken by federal organizations to that effect.
The committee is interested in learning more about the departments' achievements and initiatives, and today we will hear about what is happening at Citizenship and Immigration Canada.
Ms. Deschênes, the committee members thank you for accepting our invitation today. I would like to briefly reintroduce my colleagues:
To my right is Senator Tardif from Alberta. To her right is Senator Losier-Cool from New Brunswick, and to her right is Senator Pépin from Quebec.
To my left are Senator Seidman from Quebec and Senator Nolin from Quebec. I am Andrée Champagne, deputy chair of this committee.
Ms. Deschênes, the committee members thank you for accepting our invitation. Please go ahead.
Claudette Deschênes, Assistant Deputy Minister, Operations, Citizenship and Immigration Canada: Madam Chair, thank you for inviting me to appear today. I am the Assistant Deputy Minister of Operations at Citizenship and Immigration Canada, and I am also the official languages champion.
I will begin with a short speech, and then I will be happy to answer your questions with my colleagues' help.
Madam Chair, the Government of Canada supports the development of official languages in Canada.
Immigration is a significant part of this country's growth, and as such, I am here today to talk about Citizenship and Immigration Canada's goals with respect to supporting minority francophone communities through immigration. I will also discuss measures that the department is taking to revitalize francophone communities outside of Quebec.
Madam Chair, CIC has created partnerships with key stakeholders at the federal, provincial and territorial levels to help minority francophone communities outside of Quebec benefit from immigration. In 2002, the department created the Citizenship and Immigration Canada Francophone Minority Communities Steering Committee. I co-chair the committee with a community representative, Marc Arnal.
The committee brings together representatives of federal departments and organizations, provincial and territorial representatives and representatives of official language minority communities across the country. The goal is to develop strategies to support immigration to minority francophone communities. In September 2006, the steering committee launched its Strategic Plan to Foster Immigration to Francophone Minority Communities. The goal was to come up with long-term measures for the 2006-11 period. One of the plan's primary goals was to increase the number of francophone immigrants settling outside of Quebec to 4.4 per cent by 2008. The department wanted that percentage to reflect the percentage of Canadians living outside of Quebec whose mother tongue is French, based on 2001 census data.
Last year, after discussions within the department and with other stakeholders, we revised the objective and set a more realistic goal, 2023. We also have an intermediate goal, which is 1.8 per cent by 2013.
The new timeline takes into account the difficulties we encountered in recruiting francophone immigrants and getting them to settle outside of Quebec. Overcoming that obstacle requires a concerted effort on the part of the provinces, the territories, communities and employers because we have to find jobs for immigrants.
Nevertheless, we are working hard to improve francophone communities' ability to accept and retain new immigrants.
[English]
As part of the Government of Canada's Roadmap for Canada's Linguistic Duality, which was announced last year, our department pledged to coordinate an overall investment of $30 million until 2013 to support francophone immigrant communities outside of Quebec. We also committed to provide enhanced resources to implement the strategic plan and reach our immigration objectives.
Accordingly, CIC has reserved $10 million in settlement funding to continue and enhance activities already in place under the strategic plan to improve the delivery of reception and settlement services for immigrants and refugees.
A recent example of this was Minister Kenney's announcement in September of support for l'Accueil francophone, a group that helps government-assisted refugees living in the Winnipeg Saint-Boniface area. Similar support of francophone settlement services has also been announced since 2008 in Ontario and New Brunswick.
In addition, the department is intensifying promotional programs abroad to encourage potential immigrants and students to come to francophone minority communities in Canada and to promote the provincial nominee program. Later this month, the department will lead Destination Canada, a cross-government event at our mission in Paris, where we will meet with employers, provinces and territories to discuss ways to promote and attract francophones to settle in Canada.
We are also introducing improvements to the applications that newcomers complete to document the official language they prefer to use and better measure our efforts and results.
Finally, I should note that our department's results-based action plan for 2009-13 also includes activities to support English-speaking minority communities in Quebec. Activities such as research projects, citizenship ceremonies organized in English and other initiatives will aim to build bridges between all newcomer communities in the province through the multiculturalism program. However, the programs will respect the Canada-Quebec accord, under which Quebec has sole responsibility in the areas of selection of immigrants destined to Quebec and reception and integration of permanent residents in Quebec.
CIC has been a leader in supporting French-speaking immigrants to settle outside of Quebec, and this was recognized in the citation by the Commissioner of Official Languages in his 2006-07 annual report. More recently, in his 2008-09 annual report, the commissioner recognized that our efforts in this regard have produced modest results but mentioned that the integration of a single immigrant family in a small francophone community can make a big difference.
[Translation]
Although CIC has achieved some of its goals in this area, we have to admit that getting francophone immigrants to settle in Canadian communities outside of Quebec is no small task. Some programs, like the Canadian Experience Class, can help us increase the number of immigrants who settle in communities outside of Quebec.
Madam Chair, I have to say that the Government of Canada cannot succeed alone. This matter does not fall under our exclusive jurisdiction, and the level of commitment to supporting and promoting francophone communities in Canada varies from one provincial or territorial government to the next. Nevertheless, we are working with the tools available to us to help official language minority communities and encourage them to make an effort to attract francophone immigrants.
In closing, Madam Chair, I want to emphasize that CIC is aware of the challenges it faces in trying to get new francophone arrivals to settle in communities across Canada, and we are not just standing on the sidelines. We are determined to comply with the Official Languages Act in our programs because Canada's linguistic duality is one of the cornerstones of our society. Immigration is still a very important factor in the growth and vitality of minority francophone communities outside of Quebec.
Thank you again for inviting me. It will be a pleasure to answer your questions.
The Chair: Thank you very much, Ms. Deschênes.
Senator Tardif: Welcome, Ms. Deschênes. You indicated in your speech that one of the goals of the 2006 strategic plan was to increase the number of French-speaking immigrants settling outside of Quebec to 4.4 per cent by 2008. This figure has recently changed. Now you have indicated that you could reach 4.4 per cent by 2023. There is quite a difference between those two dates.
What are the challenges? What are the factors that make the situation difficult in terms of recruitment and also in terms of convincing French-speaking immigrants to settle in francophone communities outside of Quebec?
Ms. Deschênes: First, I would like to note that the definition of a French-speaking immigrant has changed to better reflect what we feel is the reality. One of the problems we have now with our systems is that we do not consider whether the immigrant really wants to work or live in French. We are in the process of changing our definition so that our applications clearly indicate whether the individual's mother tongue is French, whether their mother tongue is neither French nor English, or whether the individual prefers living in a French community.
One of the reasons that the date for this goal was pushed back is because we have a definition that I believe better reflects whether it is an immigrant who will live in French in a minority community. That is the first reason why we changed the date.
When Daniel Jean, who was the Assistant Deputy Minister of Immigration, appeared before your committee — I believe it was three or four years ago — he had already indicated that it would probably be difficult to achieve the initial goal.
It is not just a difficult problem in minority regions outside of Quebec. In 2008, for example, 1,522 immigrants whose mother tongue is French were admitted outside of Quebec, while in Quebec, there were 6,811. These figures show us that it is hard to find French-speaking immigrants who want to settle in Canada. Part of the problem comes from the fact that they not only want to go to Quebec, but that a number of them also do not necessarily want to immigrate. That is part of the reason why we thought to change our figure.
Also, the immigration program has changed a great deal in recent years. Before, people settled as immigrants, while now they come temporarily and then settle. For example, students come to Canada temporarily through the Canadian Experience Class program, and then settle here. We wonder whether we should target these people more directly. Unlike what our old program offered, a potential candidate can come to work or study in Canada and can then apply to immigrate in order to stay permanently. A portion of our operational work is dedicated to analyzing whether it would be more beneficial to encourage French nationals and Belgians to immigrate, or to encourage people to come study in French, for example in Saint-Boniface, and hope that they then decide to stay. That is the current situation.
Senator Tardif: There is so much information, I would like to continue.
Senator Losier-Cool: A little more information, since we are talking numbers.
Senator Tardiff: I would like to continue. I am not finished.
The Deputy Chair: Additional information on the same topic.
Senator Losier-Cool: Of the total 4.4 per cent, at the present time in New Brunswick, the francophone population is 32 per cent. Do you take into account the percentage of the francophone population when deciding the number of immigrants allowed to enter a given province?
Ms. Deschênes: Yes and no. That is why the Provincial Nominee Program was created, that is, in order to encourage people to settle in specific regions. I think it makes sense to think that if an immigrant fits in comfortably in a particular region, that person will stay. That is why we are striving to teach our communities to help newcomers fit into their region. In New Brunswick, additional funds have been invested in that area.
Senator Tardif: Regarding your efforts to recruit francophone immigrants, for example in Western Canada — and you said there have been many changes in immigration policies and regarding immigration in general — have you done an analysis of the impact that these decisions are having on minority-language communities?
Ms. Deschênes: Do you mean in terms of policy changes?
Senator Tardif: Yes, policy, administrative and other changes.
Ms. Deschênes: We are working very closely with communities in every province of Canada, as well as overseas, in order to properly understand and try to encourage integration. We are often told that francophone schools in minority communities would like to more aggressively recruit individuals who think they might stay in their country because these people, if they are not from Europe, often have greater difficulty determining the good faith of the candidate, for example. At Destination Canada in Paris, our agents fully understand what we are trying to do with minority communities. We have therefore asked them to guide our managers in the smaller postings in North Africa, in Africa, in Abidjan, to try to improve their understanding of our program in order to achieve better results. We were initially focusing primarily on France, Belgium and Switzerland, but now, many communities are telling us that this might not be the best clientele, if we want to think about the long term. People have suggested Tunisia, Algeria, Ivory Coast. We are in the process of helping our agents understand that this program is important because of our legislative responsibilities.
Senator Tardif: Given that our committee is examining Part VII of the Official Languages Act, how do your policies and practices encourage the federal government to be proactive and to bring in"positive measures" regarding immigration? What concrete action are you taking?
Ms. Deschênes: Every time there is a new program, we analyze how it will affect immigration programs. From an operational standpoint, I do not think we are making full use of the program's capacity to reach our goals concerning communities. Over the past two years, we have been putting much greater emphasis on our responsibilities, and we realize greater flexibility is needed in terms of how we deliver the program in order to meet the standards.
Senator Pépin: You said the deadlines take into account the difficulties being encountered in terms of recruiting francophone immigrants outside of Quebec. What specific difficulties have you run into?
Ms. Deschênes: One of the main difficulties I would say is that people do not yet seem to realize that there are francophone communities outside of Quebec. Their first instinct is to move to Quebec. People believe that only that province is francophone and the rest of Canada is anglophone. A lot of work needs to be done in that regard, and Destination Canada is devoting a great deal of energy to that.
I would also say that another one of our challenges is the fact that our agents not served by Paris do not always understand what we are trying to do. We need to put a great deal of energy into that aspect as well, to make sure our agents understand that, while we have responsibilities, we also have certain objectives to meet. We need to work with communities, schools for example, and then see how we can attract more people to places other than Quebec.
Senator Pépin: You also said efforts are needed to "identify employment opportunities for these immigrants." Before or after they arrive?
Ms. Deschênes: After they arrive. But the integration work is more than just having them come; it is also ensuring that they fit in. A large part of what we do in the regions at this time involves working with communities to try to create programs and networks, with the help of subsidies, that will help keep these people in those communities. Because if the person speaks French and English, he or she will move to a minority community. If he or she does not receive any support, he or she might go elsewhere.
Senator Pépin: After that, you said:"the department is intensifying promotional programs abroad." Can you tell me about those promotional programs?
Ms. Deschênes: That is the Destination Canada program. Through that program, employers, the provinces and immigration agents meet with people interested in immigrating and explain to them that there are francophone communities outside of Quebec.
Senator Losier-Cool: Are people beginning to realize that?
Senator Pépin: Later on, you said: "The Government of Canada cannot succeed by working alone. Ours is not the only jurisdiction responsible for such matters, and the commitment to support or promote francophone communities across Canada varies across provincial and territorial governments." The difficulties vary. What kind of difficulties are we talking about? Are you finding anything specific in a given province or are you finding — Let us forget about Quebec for a moment, and talk about the other provinces.
Ms. Deschênes: For example, it is the federal government that decides how to distribute the funds allocated for integration in certain provinces.
For example, in Manitoba or British Columbia, the funds go to the province and the province works with the communities. So in that case, our work involves ensuring that if there are any agreements with the provinces, our responsibilities under Part VII are clearly identified and defined.
It is also very important that it is the provinces that do the recruiting. That is another means of helping these people. They might not meet all the immigration standards, but if they have a selection certificate from the province, they will be able to come.
So it is a question of working with the provinces and encouraging them to use the Provincial Nominee Program to allow francophone immigrants to become settled, for example.
A lot of work is being done in British Columbia with the communities so that the province can issue certificates to help some francophone immigrants to move to that province.
Senator Pépin: I have one last question. Of course we know that Quebec is the province that selects its immigrants. But you have said that your department's action plan includes activities to support English-speaking minority communities in Quebec. How? Are anglophones in Quebec facing specific problems? How can you help them? On page 2, in the last paragraph, you talk about "activities to support English-speaking minority communities in Quebec."
Ms. Deschênes: For a few years now, English-speaking communities in Quebec have been coming to see us at the department, telling us that we have certain responsibilities towards them under Part VII. Given that there is not enough funding, and because we obviously want to ensure that we do not undermine the Canada-Quebec accord, we worked with those communities to do some research and come up with some best practices.
We are also working to understand the context of the regionalization of immigration to see how we can help communities retain anglophone immigrants in regions outside of Montreal, for example.
We are not yet ready to take action, but instead of helping them do research, we gave them a little money to that end. That is what they needed most.
Senator Nolin: Thank you, Ms. Deschênes, for being here today.
In your remarks, you referred to the Commissioner of Official Languages. According to previous reports, there are areas in which you seem to perform very well in terms of equitable participation and the development of communities. I think that is excellent, which is what the report says.
However, in terms of services to the public and language of work, the results are less impressive. What would help you improve this grade, which always seems to vary between average and good? What would allow you to achieve excellent results in that area as well? What is the problem?
Ms. Deschênes: One thing that always poses a problem, and also poses a problem for official languages everywhere, if you ask anyone —
Senator Nolin: It is the lack of funding.
Ms. Deschênes: I would not say that, since I am a public servant. However, many people would say that we could provide better services if we had better training. For example, we could offer more services in French.
We are also trying to make people more aware of client services. The service must be offered, not because we think someone wants to speak French, but we must always be able to make an active offer.
Senator Nolin: Not just occasionally.
Ms. Deschênes: Yes. At present, we are sending messages to our employees to remind them of their responsibilities. They also need to be reminded that active offers must be made all the time.
I would say that our biggest hitch is that we would like to provide even more training, so that people will feel more comfortable in both languages. If everything at work did not happen so quickly, it would be easier. People sometimes use the excuse that since everything moves so quickly, it is easier to offer the service in one language, and not the other. We are continuing our efforts to address the problem of language of work.
Senator Nolin: That brings me to ask about Part VII. Do you think the federal government should adopt regulatory framework to ensure that Part VII is respected? As you know, it was amended in 2005, and the goal of our work at this time is to determine how to better deliver this proactive service, which is now statutorily recognized by Bill S-3.
Should this be regulated? Perhaps this would help you achieve excellence in the area of language of work.
Ms. Deschênes: I am not an expert in this area, so I do not know if I can answer that. But in my personal opinion, I am not sure that regulating this would necessarily change anything. Personally, I think we need to really take the time to clearly explain our responsibilities, so we know what needs to be done.
And I will put that terms of immigration: there is significant regulatory framework, but not everything that needs to be done is necessarily achieved. Personally, I think we need to clearly explain to people our responsibilities under Part VII. That is not necessarily to say that it is an obligation and that it must be done; rather, it is more a question of respect and values. That is my personal opinion.
Senator Nolin: Are there central agencies you can turn to? Or are central agencies proactive themselves, and do they become involved in your activities to help you meet these obligations?
Ms. Deschênes: I cannot speak to official languages, but the central agencies are always there to help us.
I have no doubt that central agencies were there to support us in our efforts to receive new funding through the action plan.
Between being as flexible as possible to help us and working quickly, or rather, using our energy to reach our goal, I think the second option is the preferred choice.
It is not because the central agency does not want to support us, but rather because the rules require us to do a great deal of work to obtain what we need.
Senator Nolin: If I understand you correctly, there are people within the machinery of government who are responsible for looking over your shoulder to ensure that you are meeting specific targets?
Ms. Deschênes: Absolutely. We have an excellent framework. We spent a lot of time this year looking at our framework, how to report results, the 4.4 per cent target and all the rest. If we make a promise, it is important to show the results and we managed to change our forms. We did not change them sooner, because it is linked to new system.
Senator Nolin: Not computerized?
Ms. Deschênes: Soon. The system is called Global Case Management. We could have changed the forms, but that would not have been in the system. The system will be launched next May and will be able to report results more concretely.
Senator Nolin: Your target is 4.4 per cent and 1.8 per cent in 2013. What is the percentage right now? We are indeed talking about the percentage of French-speaking immigrants settling outside of Quebec?
Ms. Deschênes: We are currently at 0.75 per cent.
Senator Nolin: Your targets are ambitious.
Ms. Deschênes: One must not forget that we have a system; with the category of temporary residents who could become immigrants, those results could change considerably. That is why we are able to bring in managers in several positions that have never really been involved in Destination Canada, because we would like to be able to say next year that perhaps we did not hold a Destination Canada in Europe, but somewhere else in the world, to help us.
[English]
Senator Seidman: It seems that you are putting every effort into meeting your goals while addressing your realities and pragmatic difficulties.
I would like to return to issues that surround the English-speaking minority communities in Quebec. Your department's results based action plan for 2009-13 also includes activities to support English-speaking minority communities in Quebec. We went over some of this when Senator Pépin asked about it. I would like more specific information.
In what regions are you working with community associations? What money is budgeted for this? What kind of activities other than the research project you spoke about are you working on or considering?
Ms. Deschênes: We are presently working with the Quebec Community Groups Network. Another group in Quebec has approached us to see what we could do. We will be meeting with them shortly.
Initially, there was a tendency in the department to say we have a Canada-Quebec accord and we should not touch it. I kept coming back to our responsibility under Part VII. It would seem to me that if we have responsibility towards one side of the community, we have the same responsibility to the other community.
It is not a large amount of money, but we are working on a few things. We have identified four projects. This is the first year and we want to evaluate.
[Translation]
Evaluate the attraction and retention of immigrant populations within rural communities in Quebec where there is a high anglophone population; the publication of a special edition of the Association for Canadian Studies, specifically on immigration and diversity within English-speaking minority communities in Quebec, planned for the next National Metropolis Conference in March 2010 in Montreal; a new workshop, during the next National Metropolis Conference, on immigration and diversity within English-speaking minority communities in Quebec and a review of the existing literature related to francophone communities outside of Quebec to determine the best approaches in terms of policies, programs and activities that could also apply to English-speaking communities in Quebec.
So that is a start. Then, after doing that, we hope to have some springboards to help them in the longer term, while always keeping the Canada-Quebec accord in mind. We must be very careful not to interfere with that.
[English]
Senator Seidman: These sound like research projects to me. Where did the ideas come for these research projects? Did they come from the community or did they come from academia or elsewhere?
Ms. Deschênes: The ideas mostly came from the community. We try to work with them to find a mechanism where we could help them without stepping on toes. The commitment was that next year we would see what else we could do with them.
There might have been other proposals where we felt we were overstepping our bounds. Therefore, we decided to start with this and see where we could go.
Senator Seidman: Do you have a targeted budget for this that will remain for several years?
Ms. Deschênes: It is not a one-year budget. Based on what we think we want to do, can we afford to do it? When we started this, we made a commitment to be accountable to the community, so we will support them.
Senator Seidman: Thank you. I am impressed and pleased.
[Translation]
Senator Nolin: I would like to come back to the Canada-Quebec accord. I understand your concern and your desire to not trample on the budding relationship that exists in terms of Canada-Quebec relations, but if an anglophone immigrant wants to settle in Quebec, there is nothing to stop that?
Ms. Deschênes: In order to settle in Quebec, the immigrant must have a selection certificate from the Province of Quebec. They are the ones who decide, more or less.
Senator Nolin: Even those who do not speak French?
Ms. Deschênes: Yes.
Senator Nolin: And in terms of quotas, is there an agreement reached every year?
Ms. Deschênes: There is no real quota. Approximately 7,000 immigrants settled in Quebec in 2008. The rest of the immigrants in Quebec are people whose mother tongue is not French.
Senator Nolin: I understand. Thank you very much.
Senator Losier-Cool: Before becoming a Canadian citizen, when citizenship is granted, does the immigrant have to spend a certain amount of time in the province or is it like in Quebec?
Ms. Deschênes: Individuals must be immigrants or permanent residents in Canada for three months before they can apply to become Canadian citizens.
Senator Losier-Cool: In Canada?
Ms. Deschênes: In Canada. Individuals can be selected by Quebec and decide to go settle somewhere else, but the reverse is not as easy. In order to receive health care, the Government of Quebec must issue a selection certificate.
Senator Losier-Cool: Individuals can be selected by Quebec and settle elsewhere?
Ms. Deschênes: Yes, they can.
Senator Pépin: The opposite is more difficult.
The Deputy Chair: It appears that Senator Tardif will once again have the last question.
Senator Tardif: I would like to come back to a comment you made in response to one of my questions.
You said the department could be more flexible when it comes to official language minority communities. Could you elaborate on that? Do you have different institutional infrastructures to address the needs of the anglophone majority compared to the francophone minority in the area of immigration?
Ms. Deschênes: I would like to respond to the second part of your question first. We do not have different infrastructures, but I think some work could be done in terms of training and openness. I will give an example, one that might appear in one of the reports of the Commissioner of Official Languages, if not this year, then next. It involves a temporary worker who came to Canada as a live-in caregiver for a family in Victoria. One of the prerequisites is that the person must speak a minimum of the language, in order to be able to call an ambulance or the hospital, for example, in case of an emergency.
Senator Tardif: You mean either English or French.
Ms. Deschênes: One or the other. Normally, this would mean the language of the province.
Senator Nolin: Or of the emergency services in question.
Ms. Deschênes: That's right. The individual was refused because she did not speak English well enough to meet the minimum criterion to be accepted for that kind of work in Victoria. We saw that and said to ourselves, wait a minute, the individual was coming to work for a francophone family in Victoria. If the family is willing, perhaps we need to be a little more flexible in order to support minority communities. In this case, we reversed our decision and allowed the individual to enter.
Minority communities notwithstanding, it is clear that if someone goes and settles in Moncton, he or she can speak French or English. If he or she settles in the Yukon, it is thought that the person should be able to speak a minimum of English to be able to call the appropriate services.
So there is some degree of flexibility in terms of support for programs for minority communities. We are trying to teach our agents to be somewhat flexible when it comes to such issues. In the end, the family who is sponsoring the live- in family caregiver must be aware of the risk. However, if it is important that that person speak French to the children, why would the federal government not support that?
Senator Tardif: I am glad you cited that example, because I think we often fail to recognize the needs of the minority, which are different from the needs of the majority. We simply translate a given program, assuming that that program, which is adapted to the needs of the majority, will also work for the minority. But that is not the case. So you are becoming more aware of this. I imagine you are also consulting the minorities to get their opinion on this?
Ms. Deschênes: That is right. I think our programs exist to meet certain needs. Now we need to educate our agents and ensure that training is in place in order to fully understand.
Senator Tardif: We must also look at how this will affect the community. Is that part of what you consider a "positive measure"?
Ms. Deschênes: I am a little biased when it comes to the immigration program, because it is sometimes very difficult to identify the impact. I have no problem saying that we must wonder about that, but often we do not know this before the program is implemented. We must be careful to not simply accept assumptions about the likely impact. I am thinking of ministerial instructions, for example. We have had many complaints stating that our new program of ministerial instructions will work against francophones who want to settle in minority communities. Yet the work we have done does not suggest that this will be a problem. It is possible that it might be a problem, but I do not want to assume that the impact will be the one described by the last expert who spoke.
Senator Tardif: What are the communities saying about this? Are they saying that this will have an impact? Have you consulted them?
Ms. Deschênes: We consulted them as much as the others regarding the issue of ministerial instructions, because it was a question of a change related to the budget.
Senator Tardif: Yes, but this does not have the same effect on the majority as it can have on the minority.
Ms. Deschênes: We have studied this, we have looked at it closely and, from a ministerial perspective, we do not believe this will have an impact.
Senator Tardif: But the communities will be in a better position to say so.
Ms. Deschênes: If it had an impact, yes. Will it have an impact? That is the question and we must pay attention.
The Deputy Chair: Thank you very much, Ms. Deschênes, for talking to us about the concerns facing your department. It was our pleasure to have you here with us today.
Senator Losier-Cool: It was very interesting.
(The committee is adjourned.)