Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Transport and Communications
Issue 4 - Evidence, June 17, 2009
OTTAWA, Wednesday, June 17, 2009
The Standing Senate Committee on Transport and Communications, to which was referred BillC-7, An Act to amend the Marine Liability Act and the Federal Courts Act and to make consequential amendments to other acts, met this day at 6:30 p.m. to give consideration to a written submission and to the bill.
Senator Lise Bacon (Chair) in the chair.
[English]
The Chair: Honourable senators, we have on our agenda BillC-7, An Act to amend the Marine Liability Act and the Federal Courts Act and to make consequential amendments to other acts.
We will start with the consideration of the written submission from the Shipping Federation of Canada. I will ask Mr.David Johansen to read to us from the written notes. We have provided you with many documents, and we will deal with them after we hear from the department.
David Johansen, Constitutional and Parliamentary Affairs Section, Library of Parliament: The Shipping Federation of Canada supported all the provisions of the bill, with the exception of one clause— clause12, the maritime lien provision, proposed section139 of the act.
It had problems with proposed subsection139(2.1) that had been added by the House of Commons committee because of its limited application to stevedoring and lighterage situations. This problem has been cleared up by the proposed wording of the Canadian Bar Association for proposed section139, and they are in full support of the wording in the Canadian Bar Association's brief.
The Chair: Are there any questions, honourable senators?
We will now hear from the department. The department was here on Tuesday morning.
Tim Meisner, Director General, Marine Policy, Transport Canada: Thank you, Madam Chair, and honourable senators for giving us the opportunity to once again address the committee and respond to the evidence you heard yesterday and to the written briefs from stakeholders.
I will be brief and try to give you the general position of the department on their proposed amendments to the bill, and then the subject-matter experts with me today can go into the details in answering your questions.
While we have heard that there is strong support for BillC-7, some have raised specific concerns with two sections: the adventure tourism exclusion from Part 4 of the act and the new maritime lien for ship suppliers against foreign ships.
I will first deal with the issue of adventure tourism and the proposal that a condition be added to proposed section37.1 in clause9 that deals with the seaworthiness of the vessel and the competency of the crew at the beginning of a voyage.
I wish to assure the committee that Transport Canada takes its safety responsibilities very seriously. My colleague Mr.Donald Roussel, Director General of Marine Safety, will be able to speak more to that subject if required. The safety rules that are in effect are not contained in the Marine Liability Act but rather in the Canada Shipping Act and its regulations. These rules apply to all adventure tourism-type operations regardless of what their liability is under the Marine Liability Act. We heard testimony from adventure tourism operators that the industry has an excellent safety record as well.
Adding to the bill the condition on the seaworthiness of the vessel and the competency of the crew would, in our view, create uncertainty in the act as claimants will not know whether they are in Part 3 or Part 4.
There is the problem of defining the term "seaworthy,'' something that neither the Canadian Bar Association nor the Canadian Maritime Law Association have been able to do. In our view, proposed section37.1 is clear and based on objective criteria. With this proposed added condition, there is no evidence that claimants would be better protected. In fact, adding such a condition would create a double standard in the act that does not exist for other liabilities, such as oil spills.
Let me conclude on this point: One of the principal reasons that the adventure tourism industry would not be subject to compulsory insurance is because often they cannot get the insurance required by regulation. Compulsory insurance for passenger vessels is something that would benefit millions of Canadians. In our view, we cannot move forward with regulations if the adventure tourism industry were to be included.
The other issues stakeholders raised were with regard to the new maritime lien for ship suppliers against foreign ships. I think we can agree this is a positive step forward in protecting ship suppliers under Canadian law when their invoices go unpaid. The question is whether there should be a condition on the lien that supplies or repairs furnished to the ship are with the express consent of the owner or his representative.
Proposed section139 was drafted with the intention that it be as open and simple as possible for the benefit of ships suppliers in Canada and not foreign shipowners. The proposals before the committee would severely restrict the effectiveness of the lien.
There was one area where we agreed with the stakeholders, and that has to do with the handling, loading and unloading of the cargo; and an amendment was made, which you will find in subsection2.1.
There is a very complex web of ownership of foreign ships, and it is not practical to demand that a supplier in a Canadian port be required to have the express authority of the shipowner. Generally, ship suppliers do not require a contract with the owner in order to supply a ship and, in fact, have no relationship with the owner and often do not even know who the owner is.
We believe that should amendments be made to the bill similar to those that are proposed, they would have the opposite effect of the policy intention behind proposed section139, which is to give greater protection in Canadian law for ship suppliers. Therefore, it is our position that this provision of the bill should remain unchanged.
I will end my comments there. Mr.Marier will be able to address policy questions, Mr.Gauthier can respond to any legal questions, and Mr.Roussel can certainly answer any questions on the safety issue.
The Chair: Are there any questions, senators? It is all clear?
You have in front of you the comparison of proposals from the selected provisions in BillC-7. I hope you have had time to read them. You also have some amendments that were written following the brief we received and what we heard from the Canadian Bar Association. You also have in front of you a draft observation on BillC-7.
[Translation]
Senator Dawson: Madam Chair, it is quite clear that making amendments at this point in the year, in late June, could jeopardize passage of the bill, even if the amendments are justified. It would be difficult for us to pass it in the Senate today, then send it to the House of Commons and have it returned tomorrow.
Consequently, while I think that some observations merit consideration, I would like us to report the bill with observations and to monitor the legislation. If the concerns of stakeholders at the marine office and the Canadian Bar prove to be well founded, I think that senators from both sides of the House can certainly ask the Senate for an order of reference to address the situation.
Otherwise, although we agree that this is the calm after the storm and there does not appear to be an election on the horizon, the fall will arrive quickly and who knows what could happen then. So, to the satisfaction of a large majority of people, I think we should report the bill with observations rather than undertake a very risky amendment process that could threaten the bill if an election were called.
If the other committee members agree, we could proceed with a clause-by-clauseconsideration, but we could add observations at the end so that the bill is reported with observations.
[English]
Senator Johnson: I move that we proceed to clause-by-clauseconsideration of the bill.
The Chair: You will have to read the observations after clause-by-clauseconsideration.
Senator Dawson: Yes.
The Chair: Is it agreed that we now move to clause-by-clauseconsideration of the bill?
Senator Dawson: It is not a precedent. Do not always expect me to be that nice. I have been known to put amendments even if we are in June.
The Chair: Is it agreed that the committee proceed with the clause-by-clauseconsideration of BillC-7, An Act to amend the Marine Liability Act and the Federal Courts Act and to make consequential amendments to other Acts?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall the title stand postponed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause1 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 2 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 3 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 4 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 5 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 6 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 7 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 8 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 9 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 10 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 11 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 12 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 13 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 14 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 15 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 16 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 17 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 18 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 19 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 20 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 21 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 22 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 23 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall clause 24 carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall the title carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Shall the bill carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Do committee members wish to consider the observations that you have in front of you?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: I need a motion to adopt the observations.
Senator Mercer: I so move.
The Chair: It is moved by Senator Mercer, seconded by Senator Dawson. Is it agreed?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Is it agreed that I report BillC-7 to the Senate, with observations?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Carried.
Honourable senators, tonight is my last meeting as chair. Do not cry. There will be another chair. I would like to thank you for your contribution as members of the Standing Senate Committee on Transport and Communications.
Senator Mercer: Madam Chair, on behalf of your colleagues, I would like to thank you for your fairness and even- handedness. This is the second committee you have chaired that I have had the privilege of sitting on. You have always been fair and firm, but easy to work with. I would like to thank you for your contribution to the committee work that we have been involved in and, in particular, the work that we have done here. We will miss you as we complete our study. I am sure you will be watching with interest.
The Chair: Send me a copy of the report.
Senator Mercer: As a matter of fact, we will autograph it for you.
The Chair: I want to mention that Senator Eyton is also leaving.
Is this your last meeting?
Senator Eyton: I think so.
The Chair: I want to thank you for your contribution to the committee.
Senator Eyton: I want to reciprocate by echoing Senator Mercer's comments about you. You and I, by happenstance, have worked on a number of committees and projects. You have put up with my eccentricities and my sometimes absence as well. However, in your role as chair, you have been very fair, impartial and effective. To demonstrate how strongly I feel about it, if you are going, I have decided that I have to go too.
The Chair: Thank you. I wish you the best in the coming years.
As you said, Senator Mercer, I will be watching your work. I want to have a copy of the report next March.
Senator Johnson: I thank you as well, Senator Bacon. I have worked on so many reports with you as a member of this committee. We have had our little fisticuffs, but I have learned so much from you and your leadership. We will miss you.
Senator Housakos: I would like to add my voice to wishing you all the best and health in the future. You were an outstanding member of the National Assembly when I was one of your constituents, and you are an outstanding chair of this committee.
An Hon. Senator: He did not say he voted for you.
Senator Housakos: I did vote for you in 1989. I have to admit it.
I wish you all the best. Hopefully, we will cross paths because we are also neighbours from Laval.
Senator Merchant: Madam Chair, I would like to say thank you very much as well. I have enjoyed working with you. You are a wonderful chair. Thank you for being a wonderful hostess. You know what I mean.
I wish all the best to you. We hope to hear from you once in a while. I would like to have a forwarding address from you, please, as I would like to keep in touch.
[Translation]
Senator Dawson: I would like to add my voice to those of my colleagues. As I explained this morning in the Quebec caucus, when I entered politics in 1979 as a young Liberal and organizer for Robert Bourassa, Senator Bacon was in charge of keeping an eye on the youth to make sure we did not get out of hand. I pointed out that she is still keeping an eye on me 40 years later. I don't know who will take on the job next month after she has gone.
It has been a pleasure to work with you, Senator Bacon, and I know that we will certainly have the opportunity to work together during the next election campaign so that you will be able to tell Senator Housakos, "Yes, you voted for me before, and I won my election.''
The Chair: Let's not be partisan.
[English]
The Chair: I want to thank the stenographers and interpreters.
[Translation]
I think it is important to have them here with us. We have always been able to count on them and they have consistently done an outstanding job. I would like to thank them on your behalf. Thank you very much.
[English]
Senator Wallace: I am sorry I was late. Being one of the new senators and in the rather brief time we have known each other, I have enjoyed knowing and working with you. I have to say that there were one or two incidents where you did teach me a few things about how this all works. I found it helpful. I mean that sincerely. I want to thank you and, as has everyone else has done, wish you nothing but the best.
The Chair: Honourable senators, I will report the bill to the chamber tomorrow. Our hope is that it will be adopted.
(The committee adjourned.)